Gender: A Wider Lens

Jennifer Lahl is the founder andpresident of The Center for Bioethics and Culture Network. She has 25years of experience as a pediatric critical care nurse, hospitaladministrator, and senior-level nursing manager, and more recently,she’s also become a successful filmmaker. In 2010, she made herwriting, producing, and directing debut producing the documentaryfilmEggsploitation,which has been awarded Best Documentary by the California IndependentFilm Festival and has sold in more than 30 countries. She is also theDirector, Executive Producer, and co-writer of AnonymousFather’sDay(2011), a documentary film exploring the stories of women and men whowere created by anonymous sperm donation. In 2014 she completed threefilms on the ethics of third-party reproduction, aka surrogacy, witha trilogy called: Breeders:ASubclassofWomen?.In July 2015, she released a documentary short calledMaggie'sStory,which follows one woman’s egg donation journey. Lahl’s nextfeature film, #BigFertilitywas released in the fall of 2018.And of course, we were particularlyinterested in Jennifer’s films that focus on gender medicine. TransMission:What’stheRushtoReassign This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe

Bob Ostertag published his book, Sex Science Self: A Social History of Estrogen, Testosterone, and Identity in 2016. At the time, few people took much notice. Six years later, however, this book is causing a stir among gender critical circles and provoking considerable thought and discussion.Today, Bob Ostertag expands on the book, which explores the way pharmaceutical companies have been marketing testosterone as the essence of manhood and estrogen as the essence of womanhood. Pioneering physicians have also been looking long and hard for a condition, even if they have to fabricate one, for which these hormones offer a solution. Bob’s work raises important questions about the beliefs people hold about these substances and what those substances mean for their personal identity. And of course, these beliefs are changing rapidly as society expands its understanding of gender identity, for better or worse.Bob also reminds us that no aspect of history should be off limits for exploration. Studying the history of hormones, in and of itself, can be upsetting to people who hold strong beliefs about them. Nevertheless, knowing this history is important for anyone curious about the intersection between medicine and identity.Bob’s writing style is powerful, witty, and gripping. As you’ll see, he is a very thoughtful and cautious conversationalist. Towards the end of the discussion, Bob also raises some challenges to me and Stella about our show, and how some of our guests frame the biological or organic determinants of sexuality and identity. This conversation gave us much to think about and we will continue exploring these ideas in subsequent episodes. So without further delay, here’s our discussion with Bob Ostertag.Links & Resources:Sex Science Self: A Social History of Estrogen, Testosterone, and Identity, by Bob Ostertag, University of Massachusetts Press, 2016, https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Science-Self-Estrogen-Testosterone-ebook/dp/B07CHB9B7YISBN: 978-1-62534-213-3 Extended NotesIn his book, Sex Science Self: A Social History of Estrogen, Testosterone, and Identity,Bob describes the extraordinary claims by big pharma and the medical establishment about hormones determining gender.Is human gender chemical-based?Bob offers examples of the meaning of how hormones affect the body and how that meaning has changed.A deeper dive into the marketable idea that testosterone represents masculinity.How to better anticipate the landmines of pharmaceutical propaganda.Pharmaceutical hormones were the miracle cure without a disease.At the time, the thought was whoever could synthesize testosterone was going to be rich.Gay liberation groups did not want to talk to the medical establishment.Transgender issues are reflective of all the problems we have in the world today.In the past, a transition was only accomplished through physical surgery.All human identities are becoming chemically constructed.A project out of UC Berkeley is attempting to debunk the Low T campaign.Bob dispels some myths about hormone imbalances and the medical conditions they supposedly cause.Inspecting the ethical dilemma of consumer-led medicines.For 10 years, Bob’s book was mostly ignored.This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe

Dr. Maggie Goldsmith was working as an independent contractor at the psychological and counseling service of a small, progressive, liberal arts college when her 16-year-old daughter announced that she identified as trans-masculine and required he/him pronouns.Unable to find appropriate help for her daughter who was intensifying her demands for cross-sex hormone treatment as she approached her 18th birthday, Maggie embarked with her on a trip to their ancestral homeland. While there, Maggie wrote about her experiences as a clinician and parent of a gender-questioning adolescent. In her first PITT Substack essay titled, “To my daughter’s therapist: you were wrong,” Maggie wrote about her daughter’s process of shedding transgender identification as she worked to build a more flexible and resilient sense of self. That essay got over 20,000 reads within the first three months of its publication. Her second PITT essay titled, “Trans and the myth of sloppy parenting,” explored the conditions that made her family fertile ground for gender ideology and how, ultimately, the parent-child bond was the solvent for her daughter’s gender dysphoria.Maggie’s clinical work with teens and families impacted by gender dysphoria is guided by child and adolescent developmental theory and a belief that a good working alliance between therapist and patient can act as the scaffolding to support a young person’s mental health and emotional growth.We enjoyed this discussion so much that we decided it will be followed up by a Part II in the coming weeks.Links & Resources:https://pitt.substack.com/p/trans-and-the-myth-of-sloppy-parentinghttps://pitt.substack.com/p/to-my-daughters-therapist-you-wereExtended NotesMaggie was surprised to see they/them pronouns on student applications.She didn’t think much of her daughter approaching her with the idea of taking hormone therapy when she turned 25.Her daughter had the makings of an identity crisis.During Covid, tragedy struck the family and her children were attending school online.Her daughter went to Planned Parenthood to get testosterone shots on her 18th birthday without talking to Maggie.Even respected gender identity specialists were offering Maggie misplaced recommendations.Maggie felt that she had no resources and that she, as a clinician, would have to figure things out on her own.Attaching to binaries and a denial of history is common in teens and this compels a parent to be present-day focused.The same day Maggie made an appointment for her daughter at a gender clinic, her daughter bought a dress and heels online.Maggie thought about traveling as a way to give her daughter time to get clearer about her identity.Her son supported her daughter’s transition which Maggie found created a toxic environment.A fellow psychologist told Maggie that she was abandoning her son.In the family’s native language there are no gendered pronouns.When Maggie told her daughter she was done with gender issues, her daughter admitted to being done with it as well.Wider Lens Renewal Retreat — Arizona 2022:https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wider-lens-renewal-retreats-arizona-2022-tickets-368655377157This podcast is sponsored by ReIME andGenspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/and This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe

Denise Caignon is the founder of 4th wave now, the very first parent blog in the U.S. exposing the dangers and madness of the gender affirmative model of care for minors. In 2014, Denise seemed to be an ordinary U.S. mother who happened to work in healthcare, when her then 17-year-old daughter, out of the blue, texted her a link to a gender doctor’s website who claims he approves hormones and surgery for trans people.Denise refers to herself as a “good liberal” who didn’t know anything about this but was willing to investigate, so she made phone calls. She soon became puzzled by the response of the gender affirmative clinicians and decided she needed to do her own research. As it turns out Denise is quite extraordinary. Always a maverick and a deep thinker, found herself accidentally starting the groundbreaking website, 4thWaveNow, which grew to play a huge role in careful analysis and documentation of the psychological and medical harms being done to young people in the name of gender.Today, we talk with Denise as she reflects on how the U.S. has changed in its approach to this issue and some challenges we face when promoting gender exploratory therapy. This is a special conversation since Denise is so insanely knowledgeable about all things contemporary gender debates: from the big picture to the behind-the-scenes internet drama. Oh, and by the way, her daughter no longer identifies as trans, and she tells us about that story too. So, buckle in, and enjoy our discussion with 4thwavenow founder, Denise.Links:https://4thwavenow.com/Not Plural Phobic: https://4thwavenow.com/2017/12/29/not-plural-phobic-uspath-psychiatrist-promotes-transition-for-multiple-personalities/Age is just a number: https://4thwavenow.com/2017/03/20/age-is-just-a-number-when-it-comes-to-genital-surgeries-on-minors/Alexander Korte: https://www.lmu-klinikum.de/kinder-und-jugendpsychiatrieThe pop tarts story: https://4thwavenow.com/2017/07/23/i-just-gave-him-the-language-top-gender-doc-uses-pop-tart-analogy-to-persuade-8-year-old-girl-shes-really-a-boy/Extended NotesIn 2014, Denise’s daughter sent her a link to a gender clinic.Denise researched as much as she could about trans people quickly.She never intended to start a website but she needed to find other people who understood what she was going through.She received death threats after posting her first article.Denise describes the pop tarts story.After a visit to a somewhat offline horse farm, Denise’s daughter desisted.A certain percentage of gender dysphoric young people end up being gay or lesbian.Denise doesn’t believe desistance is a bad thing.Certain hormones can sterilize young people.People who weren’t talking about gender issues in the past are now talking about gender issues.Sasha, Stella, and Denise discuss the differences in the U.S. and the UK with regard to gender discussions.Finding common ground can be difficult when all sides want to capitalize on gender discussions.Denise describes the faith component involved in some detransition This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe

Shannon Thrace is a writer, IT professional, and devotee of farm-to-table restaurants, summer festivals, all-night conversations, and lifelong learning. She’s passionate about unplugging, getting outside, and traveling the world. She’s also a trans widow who has written a memoir, soon to be published.Today Shannon tells about first meeting her husband, Jaime. She fell in love and married a man who was creative and artistic, with an eclectic but grungy style. He was down for anything, fun to be around, and spontaneous. They moved from the city to the country. This was a young open-minded couple that enjoyed a playfulness in their relationship. So when Jamie stumbled across trans porn and developed an interest in cross-dressing, Shannon was more curious than distressed. But then things took a weird turn. As Jamie started to spend more time in online spaces, and less time in the real world, his interest in cross-dressing changed from a fun activity to a real struggle with gender dysphoria. He spiraled into worsening mental health and their marriage took a dive. Shannon tells the story of how her loving marriage couldn’t withstand the pressure of Jamie’s obsessions, ideologies, and online activism. We touch on the role of affirmative therapists, the loss of her friends, and Shannon’s utter isolation from this complicated situation. Ultimately a solo camping trip helped her ground herself and make a decision about ending the marriage. She ends this interview with some advice to other women who may be in a similar situation.Links:Substack: shannonthrace.substack.comShannon's Book: 18 Months: A Memoir of a Marriage Lost to Gender Identity Extended NotesShannon shares the story of her love for her husband.Exploring Trans pornography was Jamie’s way of introducing Shannon to his transformation.Jamie changed his personal style many times over the years.Shannon identified as a lesbian before meeting her husband.While testing out the waters of cross-dressing, Jamie was writing about his masculinity in a blog.A brief comment from a stranger ignited Jamie’s gender dysphoria.Jamie’s story closely fits into the gender dysphoria narrative on the internet at the time.Jamie was so depressed he stepped out of his everyday life. He quit work and stopped having sex with Shannon.Shannon’s therapist recommended she write a letter to say goodbye to her male partner.The therapist commented that she thought it would be fun to transition Jamie.Jamie started to pull away, sabotaged Shannon in tirades, and gave their mutual friends ultimatums.Jamie has had surgery to fully incorporate his beliefs.Shannon believes gender dysphoria can be acquired.Shannon offers advice for those who have spouses in various stages of transitioning.Wider Lens Renewal Retreat – Arizona 2022: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wider-lens-renewal-retreats-arizona-2022-tickets-368655377157This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.For more about our show: https://linktr.ee/WiderLensPod This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe

Professor Tony Attwood has specialized in Autism Spectrum Disorders since he qualified as a clinical psychologist in England in 1975. He has written two books: Asperger’s Syndrome: A Guide for Parents and Professionals and The Complete Guide to Asperger’s Syndrome. Between the two, they’ve sold over 800,000 copies and have been translated into dozens of languages.He has been a keynote speaker at many Australian and International Conferences and he presents workshops and runs training courses for parents, professionals, and individuals with Asperger’s syndrome all over the world.Today, Dr. Attwood helps us to better understand autistic traits in the gender-questioning teens we see today. We covered this topic in Episode 17 but felt there were things we missed and wanted to clarify. As Dr. Atwood informed us before we hit record, his expertise is in Autism, and he may not be as well versed in the intricacies of contemporary gender identity activism or the studies around gender dysphoria, transition, and desistance. But his knowledge of autism in children and teens is vast and he was engaging and lovely to speak to!We asked Dr. Attwood about special interests, or the fixations and narrow obsessions that are common in autism, we asked him about the difficulty with socializing and how immediate affirmation in an LGBT peer group might be experienced. We also delve into the vulnerabilities and strengths of autistic adolescents and how parents can best support their children when they make rigid or urgent demands. Dr. Attwood highlights the difficult position parents may be in when their child is highly distressed but rushing into a process he/she may not fully understand. We also explored the new world that has opened up to teens via computers and social media and the tricky landscape that complicates a normal adolescent search for identity.Links:Website:  https://tonyattwood.com.au/ Dr. Attwood’s Books on Amazon:  https://amzn.to/3PKm1AN Events:  https://www.attwoodandgarnettevents.comExtended NotesSasha explains to Professor Attwood the slower, psychological approach to gender facilitated on this podcast.Often, in those with autism, the age of emotional maturity does not match the chronological age.Professor Attwood describes what he believes to be the similarities between autism and gender.Autistic individuals seek affirmation and the transgender community offers affirmation but not at the level the autistic individual is seeking.Discovering a self-identity, regardless of gender, is a mechanism of realization utilized by Professor Attwood.Parents are expected to accept a child’s different concept of self in autism and gender.From a psychological perspective, it seems that social transition creates a sort of pathway toward medical transition.With autism subtlety is rare.Professor Attwood shares the positive and negative physical and psychological advantages for teens who find acceptance online.In his group, Professor Attwood explores how the world is perceived by autistic individuals.The ratio of autistic boys to girls is two to one.One in three of those in eating disorder clinics have autism, gender-dysphoria, etc.What it means when diagnoses are changed from autism to ADHD+.Professor Attwood describes an example of when children have characteristics of autism but not the disability.Gender exploration This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe

Maya Forstater is a researcher, writer, and advisor working on business and sustainable development. She is one of the founders of Sex Matters, the UK-based, not-for-profit organization that seeks to re-establish that sex matters in rules, laws, policies, language, and culture.In 2019, she lost her job after tweeting and writing about sex and gender. She had begun talking and tweeting about news articles that she felt espoused bizarre new beliefs about gender and what the implications may be. For example, while building a campaign to combat overly-sex-segregated toys for children, called Let Toys be Toys, Maya observed that society had shifted from fighting sex stereotypes to claiming that some children were neither girls nor boys. It was fascinating to learn that even when researching tax policy, Maya found herself calling out unrealistic, utopian ideas and ruffling feathers among her liberal peers. In this conversation, Maya also reflects on her unlikely position in her landmark court case which established that gender-critical views are protected as a belief under the equality act. Despite her reluctance to jump into a complex and messy legal process, she felt a strong conviction to take this on.Links:Wider Lens Renewal Retreat — Arizona 2022:https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wider-lens-renewal-retreats-arizona-2022-tickets-368655377157Sex Matters:https://sex-matters.org/Let Toys Be Toys:https://www.lettoysbetoys.org.uk/Twitter Handle: https://www.twitter.com/@MForstaterMore of Maya’s Writing:https://a-question-of-consent.net/Extended NotesIn 2017, Maya took notice of the gender wars and started the “Let Toys Be Toys” campaign.Maya believes women are women and women have rights.It is widely spread that Maya is a Tax Accountant but her role in social justice is much more than that.Maya challenges people to engage in issues on Twitter and in her workplace.An employer told Maya that because she retweeted Kathleen Stock she was a bigot.Maya retained her job after explaining her plight on a blog and Twitter.Her father’s legal experience influenced Maya about whether or not to sue others.There is a legal time limit on discrimination cases.At the moment Maya was prepared to launch a public campaign, a major social justice law firm dropped her case.Maya has public support from those unable to raise their voice at work.The first hearing, that Maya lost, was about sex being real and a protected philosophical belief.In the first trial, a judge called Maya an Absolutist.A tweet from JK Rowling catapulted Maya’s campaign into the international spotlight.In 2021, Maya finally won a case that created a precedent that gender-critical people have the same rights as religious people.Sex Matters is an organization Maya founded to educate people about their rights.This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.For more This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe

Following on from the first episode on desistance (77), Sasha and Stella address a common question they get from parents of gender-questioning children: Could my child be desisting, and if so, how should I respond? The episode begins with a description of how it might look if a child is desisting or developing more psychological flexibility around gender. Then, they explore the many different responses parents can have when they suspect their child is in a desistance process. Commonalities among parents of desisted kids are discussed, and Sasha and Stella offer some practical advice for parents who may be confused by conflicting information from both affirmative practitioners and gender-critical commentators alike.Links:Wider Lens Renewal Retreat — Arizona 2022:https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wider-lens-renewal-retreats-arizona-2022-tickets-368655377157Extended NotesDesistance is a highly emotional subject.Signs that may indicate desistance or gender flexibility in children.Parents should educate themselves and relax while teenagers are exploring gender.Rules of thumb for bringing up a conversation about gender with kids.Stella discusses Ireland and the lack of emphasis on medicalizing children there.Selfies and an emphasis on how someone looks have impacted children in negative ways.Radical interventions proactive parents have done to keep kids mentally healthy and engaged in life.A household in which a child feels they can be themselves can have a bigger impact than therapy in some cases.Does desistance manifest differently in boys than in girls?Gender can be concentrated or diluted depending on a child’s other interests.Moving is a strategy to mitigate unhelpful influences.In desistance stories, things that make a difference are when parents get creative about broadening their child’s life.When a child adopts a new name it is much different than when they adopt different pronouns.Therapy can help parents while their child is desisting.This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.For more about our show: https://linktr.ee/WiderLensPod This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe

Bret Alderman is a writer and life coach who works with gender-questioning teens and their parents. He received his Ph.D. in Depth Psychology from the Pacifica Graduate Institute in 2012. His book Symptom, Symbol, and the Other of Language: A Jungian Interpretation of the Linguistic Turn, is an attempt to understand postmodernism, specifically its intense preoccupation with language, from a perspective informed by the work of Carl Jung. This work, in turn, has led him to an interest in Queer Theory and its relation to earlier, first-generation postmodernist thinkers.Bret’s insight into postmodernist and poststructuralist thinking provides a rich platform onwhich to get to grips with gender ideology. In this fascinating discussion, he explains the “linguistic turn” and the Jungian concepts such as ideological possession and other important archetypes. Perhaps most importantly, Bret tells us why a statement can be literally false and yet remain metaphorically true — and how we can best respond when this is happening.Links:Bret Alderman: Symptom, Symbol, and the Other of Language: A Jungian Interpretation of the Linguistic Turnhttps://www.routledge.com/Symptom-Symbol-and-the-Other-of-Language-A-Jungian-Interpretation-of/Alderman/p/book/9780815359135Bret’s website: https://www.aldermancoaching.com/Judith Butler: Bodies That Matter: On the Discursive Limits of Sex https://www.routledge.com/Bodies-That-Matter-On-the-Discursive-Limits-of-Sex/Butler/p/book/9780415610155?gclid=Cj0KCQjwzqSWBhDPARIsAK38LY8qB6h2FzpBYFMlcfzKiKmPE1zWEeh0C49TJ2humz9XDRNgpspkiBQaAqJbEALw_wcBExtended NotesFor his book, Symptom, Symbol, and the Other of Language, Bret researched the linguistic turn.Bret defines the Jungian “nothing-but” attitude.Queer theory and gender identity theory would be impossible without poststructuralism and the particular understanding of language it inaugurated.In their malleable state, young people may believe they have been misled into a different narrative.A death-rebirth motif runs through the discourse of what it means to be transgender.In the context of gender, something can be literally false yet metaphorically true.The body is a language itself and how physical characteristics are used to communicate who we are.Animals that are sexually dimorphic also exhibit differences in behavior.Bret details Prometheanism and its place in gender ideology.The issue with deifying an idea.Bret describes how he moves past the jargon of the internet during therapy.Jung’s active imagination technique for internalized transphobia.It is normal for teens to radically change the way they present themselves to the world.Bret contends that gender identity theory and queer theory are not sustainable.How knowing more than one language translates into a different mindset.This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.For more... This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe

Stephanie Davies-Arai is the founder and director of Transgender Trend, the leading UK organization calling for evidence-based healthcare for gender dysphoric children and young people and fact-based teaching in schools. She was shortlisted for the John Maddox Prize 2018 for the school’s guide, “Supporting gender diverse and trans-identified students in schools.” She is a communication skills expert, teacher trainer, parent coach, and author of Communicating with Kids. Stephanie was an intervener in the High Court in support of Keira Bell and Mrs. A, who brought a landmark case against the Tavistock Gender Identity Development Service. They claim that under-18s are not old enough to consent to treatment with puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones. Stephanie was awarded the British Empire Medal as founder of Transgender Trend for services to children in the Queen’s Jubilee Birthday Honours list.In this discussion, we talk about how adults have always attempted to strike a balance between encouraging creativity and affirming reality for children. Stephanie started noticing a reversal in the parent-child relationship through her research into parenting books and then saw this trend come to life in media stories of trans children and the parents whose job was to facilitate their child’s self-development.Stephanie is also asked, given her background as an expert in communication with children, how would she want to introduce ideas of sex, gender, orientation, feminism, and media literacy to kids. We also explore how other vulnerable groups and protected categories are shadowed when we fixate disproportionately on gender and sexuality. How does this impact children’s development and sense of self? What happens when we lie to children? Stephanie offers some advice to parents who hope their child’s fixation on one particular thing will resolve (whether it be gender or otherwise). And lastly, we ask Stephanie to make some predictions of what will transpire regarding gender, transition, and education in the near future.Links:http://www.transgendertrend.comhttps://stephaniedaviesarai.com/communicating-with-kids/http://www.4thwavenow.comExtended NotesStephanie designed her own courses and wrote Communicating with Kids: What Works and What Doesn’t.Parents affirm a child’s reality in life.Based on 1970s TV, Stephanie internalized messages about women and their place in the world.Stephanie feels compelled to act when she sees an injustice.You don’t tell lies to children.A Huffington Post article about trans children and their parents triggered Stephanie to write her first book.In 2014, the BBC released a TV program for kids, named I Am Leo, about a transitioning girl.Stephanie thinks the U.S. was approximately five years ahead of the UK in detransition information.The impact of the pressure of objectification and stereotypes on teens.Feminism is not taught in schools, Identity Politics are.The need to critique organizations that make money from women.Acknowledging gender differences empowers young people to better understand themselves.We can make better decisions if we are aware of the messages we get from our culture.LGBTQ+ groups in schools may pigeonhole kids who just want to be non-conforming or non-conventional.Stephanie examines social contagion in teens.Stephanie receiving the British Empire Medal represents a sea of change.In 5‒10 years, Stephanie believes huge changes will... This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe