Gospel Tangents Podcast

In our final conversation with Dr Margaret Toscano, we'll discuss the chapter in Sara Patterson's book, "The Sept 6 & the Struggle for the Soul of Mormonism." Margaret will discuss her and her husband Paul's reaction to Sara's descriptions of them in the book. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/LqxYh6QHY3E Don’t miss our other conversations about the Sept Six: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/sept-six/ Copyright © 2024 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Beyond the Sept 6 More than two decades after the events known as the "Sept 6," Margaret Toscano offers a candid look back, reflecting on the pain of excommunication, the evolution of her personal beliefs, and how she and her husband, Paul Toscano, hope to be remembered beyond that defining moment. Margaret highlights what she feels Patterson's book misses about her and others' journeys since 2003. Toscano reveals that her 2003 interview, featured in the book, captured a time of significant pain. Being kicked out of one's church, even for someone who might not be a "Believer," is deeply painful, particularly when it's tied to one's heritage and family, a sentiment she notes is also true for others like David Wright. She is proud of her ability to navigate that pain and notes the documentation of it in the book is important. Contrary to advice she received to simply "walk away" from Mormonism to heal, Toscano felt compelled to stay engaged. She identifies as Mormon, distinguishing this from being LDS (a member of the LDS Church), and views it as her ethnicity and heritage. This identity is crucial to her, and she has continued to write, research, and discuss Mormon issues, currently working on a book about Heavenly Mother.. Over the past twenty years, Toscano's spiritual journey has evolved. While not a "true believing Mormon," she has reached a point where she can openly say she is a Believer on some level, a stance she felt ashamed of years ago. Her ideas of God are complex and not aligned with traditional Mormon views, but she believes in God, an afterlife, and the soul. She describes herself as a "skeptic believer," a person who doubts everything but has also had experiences that affirm her faith. Crucially, she feels able to claim her spirituality openly, something she couldn't do as easily two decades prior. She asserts that being a scholar and an intellectual is compatible with having faith. A major point of reflection for Toscano is the legacy she and Paul desire. They explicitly state they do not want the September Six to be the sole definition of who they were. Margaret doesn't want to be remembered "simply as a dissident," nor does Paul want to be remembered simply as one of the Sept 6. Toscano highlights that Paul's faith journey continued significantly after 2007, when the book reportedly leaves him having lost his faith. Paul has since "found his faith again," seeing himself as a Mormon Christian with a deep testimony of Jesus Christ, which informs his interpretation of the Book of Mormon and his extensive writing. Margaret is immensely proud of Paul's intellectual output, which includes some fifteen books—theology, memoir, novels, essays, and more. She wishes for him to be remembered primarily as a "man of Mormon letters," an important Mormon intellectual, and a brilliant writer. As for herself, Toscano hopes to be remembered as an important Mormon scholar and a beloved teacher at the University of Utah, emphasizing her continued work and care for the Mormon community. She underscores the importance of remembering and being remembered, noting her critique that the book overlooks the continued contributions and experiences of many involved in the 1993 events, including her own work and relationships since 2003. Toscano also touches on the changes she's observed in Mormon studies and at the Sunstone conference, where she was a frequent participant for decades..

I asked about Peggy Fletcher Stack's opinion. Central to Peggy's thirty-plus-year career is her unwavering commitment to journalistic ethics and objectivity. https://youtu.be/yFqxStPt0NA Remember, this is a secret episode. Sign up at gospeltangents.com/newsletter to get the link to the secret episode emailed to you. Don’t miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Peggy Fletcher Stack's Opinion She is asked daily about her personal faith but maintains it is "not for public disclosure," stating she is a "person of faith" who respects others but keeps her own private. She firmly believes a credible journalist cannot be an opinion writer. She actively avoids expressing personal opinions on politics or religion in her reporting or on social media. While her choice of stories and sources reveals focus, she strives for neutrality in her own voice. This commitment means she receives criticism from all sides, even noting she gets "more hate mail than our sports reporters." She highlights the challenge that some readers and even sources don't grasp why journalists don't simply adopt a specific viewpoint or give the LDS Church the "last word." She explains her approach to sourcing often prioritizes current "stakeholders" within a faith community for present-day issues, while respecting former members' perspectives on their personal journeys but finding them less ideal sources for current church affairs. Dramatic Transformation in Journalism The conversation also underscores the dramatic transformation in journalism brought by the internet. Contrasting with her early freelance days in Kenya where in-person interviews and library research were essential, online resources now make research significantly easier. However, this ease has contributed to journalism becoming a 24/7 job, with constant demands and potentially less emphasis on crucial in-person reporting. Peggy cautions that younger reporters can sometimes mistake online "buzz" for broad public concern, stressing the importance of understanding what "average believers in the pew" are discussing. Peggy also touched on the dramatic transformation in journalism due to the internet, contrasting her early freelance days in Kenya with the 24/7 nature of reporting today. While online resources make research easier, the constant demand and decreased emphasis on in-person reporting present new challenges. Despite these challenges and the constant criticism, Peggy finds her job exciting, enjoying the process of analyzing and connecting the dots. She has no immediate plans to retire, suggesting the 2034 Olympics as a potential bookend for her career since her first story coincided with Salt Lake's losing the 1998 Olympic bid to Japan. Why Her Faith is Off-Limits Stepping back into the conversation with Peggy Fletcher Stack of the Salt Lake Tribune, the discussion moved beyond her career origins to highlight the core principle for Peggy is journalistic ethics and objectivity. She firmly believes a credible journalist cannot be an opinion writer. She gets asked daily about her own faith but maintains it's not for public disclosure, as her role is to report fairly on all faiths. She consciously avoids expressing her personal opinions on politics or religion in her reporting or on social media. While her choice of stories and sources reveals focus, she strives for neutrality in her own voice. She illustrated the challenge of this by describing how people, including some within the LDS Churc don't always understand why journalists don't simply adopt a specific viewpoint or give one source the "last word." This commitment to reporting on conflict, even when it's sensitive, means she receives criticism from all sides, sometimes even more hate mail than sports reporters. Do you agree with why Peggy Fletcher Stack's opinion is not for public consumption.

We discuss 2 important moments in Peggy Fletcher Stack's career: "We don't apologize," and "What about the women? Peggy Fletcher Stack is the senior religion reporter at the Salt Lake Tribune. The focus of the conversation turns to the persistent challenges within religious coverage and the dramatic evolution of the journalistic landscape itself. For Peggy, certain topics consistently emerge as central "pressure points" or "conflicts." Drawing on Apostle Boyd K. Packer's 1993 speech, she observes that issues surrounding feminists, gays, and intellectuals have dominated her reporting because, as she puts it, journalists cover "planes that crash," not "planes that land on time." https://youtu.be/KmaKAKKtyH4 Don’t miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved LGBTQ+ Issues She highlights the continued intensity of LGBTQ+ issues, noting they remain "very very hot." Her archive reveals nearly 700 articles containing the word "gay," underscoring its consistent prominence. While public protests on issues like ordination might have decreased since events like Kate Kelly's excommunication, Peggy firmly states that gender issues have "absolutely not died down," citing ongoing concerns among younger women and pushes on topics like allowing young women to pass the sacrament or women sitting on the stand. "We Don't Apologize" Moment Peggy Fletcher Stack recalls a meeting with Apostles Todd Christofferson and Dallen H. Oaks around the time the church was announcing a "compromise" on LGBTQ+ issues. She asked them, in the context of trying to promote civil discourse, if the church would ever apologize for the rhetoric of some members on this topic as a way to improve civility. Elder Oaks responded directly, "No. We never apologize." Peggy notes that this response to a specific question was later interpreted by some as being a statement of general church policy, which she clarified was not the case. She also mentions that Elder Oaks repeated a similar sentiment on a video podcast (Trib Talk no longer exists), stating that apology "isn't in the Bible," which caused a "huge flap" and led to people blaming her, the messenger. She said this illustrates how something said can come to be seen as policy. The "What About the Women?" Question Peggy describes a press conference in January or February 2018 with President Russell M. Nelson and Elder Oaks where reporters were limited to one question each. Peggy had prepared a question asking what would be done to increase diversity in leadership, specifically mentioning "women, people of color, and non-Americans." President Nelson's initial response was to focus on his personal connection to Peggy and her family, an "awkward moment" for her. After speaking about non-Americans, and feeling they were finishing their answer without addressing women, Peggy, despite the one-question limit, called out from her seat, "What about women?" President Nelson then spoke about loving women, highlighting his daughters and mothers. Peggy characterized this moment, which occurred on live KSL TV, as a "weird existential moment" balancing the personal and professional. Ironically, she felt it ended up being a "win-win" for her, as critics from different perspectives interpreted the interaction in ways that subtly improved her standing with them. Don’t miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved

Peggy Fletcher Stack highlights her biggest interviews, significant moments, and enduring themes of her three decades covering religion. Peggy's career at the Salt Lake Tribune has intersected with pivotal historical events and figures. She covered sensitive issues like Catholic abuse and the aftermath of 9/11, immediately being assigned to interview Utah Muslims. She shared a moving story of a young Muslim boy named Osama who faced bullying after 9/11 but later reclaimed his name and faith. https://youtu.be/shlJFq8BV2s Biggest Interviews Covering the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City brought another highlight: interviewing Archbishop Desmond Tutu about forgiveness, an encounter she described as a truly memorable moment despite the initial challenge of getting her story into print. She also had the unique opportunity to spend four days covering the Dalai Lama's visit, with press access to every event. Reporting on leadership transitions within the LDS Church also marked her career. She wrote President Ezra Taft Benson's obituary but never interviewed him as he wasn't publicly visible in his last years. She covered President Howard Hunter's trip to Nauvoo, noting his warmth and the public's desire for physical connection after Benson's absence. The advent of President Gordon B. Hinckley brought a shift; at his first press conference, he stood the entire time and took questions, a departure from past practice. Peggy recalled her own encounter, where President Hinckley showed familiarity with her and her family before she proceeded to ask numerous questions. Notably, she covered President Hinckley's historic 1998 trip to sub-Saharan Africa, the first time an LDS prophet had visited the region. Traveling separately from his group, she managed to secure an interview with him in Zimbabwe, where he famously commented on fighting adulation. This Africa trip stands out as a definitive highlight of her career. Reflecting on her coverage, Peggy connected her most frequent topics to Apostle Boyd K. Packer's 1993 speech identifying feminists, gays, and intellectuals as enemies of the church. She realized these areas – which she terms "pressure points" or "conflicts" – have been the focus of her reporting because journalists cover "planes that crash," not "planes that land on time." This includes covering the September Six excommunications (intellectuals)10, the ongoing evolution of women's issues and gender dynamics (feminism), and the persistently "hot" topic of LGBTQ issues. What about the Women? Peggy also recounted another one of her biggest interviews involving a memorable interaction with President Russell M. Nelson in 2018, where she asked about increasing diversity in church leadership. His initial, somewhat awkward, response focused on knowing her family. He finally answered about international leaders, but he didn't address female leadership, leading her to press him to address the specific question about women: She asked loudly, "What about the women?" She viewed this moment, captured on live TV, as a strange intersection of the personal and professional that ironically benefited her standing with critics from different perspectives. What are your thoughts about Peggy's coverage of the LDS Church specifically? Do you think she is biased one way or the other? Do you listen to Mormon land and/or subscribe to the Salt Lake Tribune? What are some of the biggest interviews we didn't mention? Don’t miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved

It was fun to sit down with Peggy Fletcher Stack about her time at Sunstone and Mark Hofmann. Peggy Fletcher Stack is a senior religion reporter at the Salt Lake Tribune with over three decades of experience. Peggy, also a co-host of the Tribune's weekly "Mormon Land" podcast, discussed her extensive career, offering insights into her work, her background, and some of the pivotal moments she's covered. The conversation quickly delved into the origins of her career, her time at the Sunstone organization, and even her connection to a notorious historical event. https://youtu.be/jI3Y_aw9mek Don’t miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Peggy's long tenure in religion reporting at the Tribune spans 34 years. Before joining the paper, she was involved with Sunstone magazine and was the originator of the Sunstone Symposium. Recounting its beginnings, Peggy explained that as young people working on the magazine, they needed material to publish. She conceived the idea of holding a symposium where people could present, providing content for the magazin. Despite skepticism from some who felt they were "just kids," the first symposium in the late 1970s or early 1980s was successful, leading it to become an annual event that has continued for over 40 years. Peggy noted that Sunstone often struggled financially but ultimately persevered. Peggy's early career included a period spent freelancing in Kenya. In 1985-1986, shortly after getting married, she and her husband used their wedding money to move to Kenya to do freelance writing and photography. They chose Kenya because it was English-speaking and stable at the time. While they hoped to sell stories, Peggy admitted they didn't sell many. She described it as more of an adventure that provided a reason to travel and learn. She recently returned to Kenya for a conference with the International Association of Religion Journalists (IARJ), a group she helped found in 2012 and now serves as executive director. Sunstone and Mark Hofmann One of the most compelling parts of the early discussion was Peggy's connection to Sunstone and Mark Hofmann bombings. Hofmann, known for forging historical documents related to Mormonism, had his "findings" discussed extensively at Sunstone. Peggy knew Mark Hofmann personally and conducted the only print interview he ever gave. Looking back at that interview, she realized he was lying throughout, something she didn't recognize at the time. Peggy described Hofmann as socially awkward, noting he wouldn't look her in the eye during the interview, which she initially attributed to social skill issues but now sees as a sign he was fabricating information. Remarkably, the Hofmann bombings happened on the same weekend as Peggy's wedding, October 12, 1985. One of the victims, Steve Christensen, was a close friend, a major Sunstone donor, and a columnist. After the bombings, Peggy received calls from national media and initially suspected a business connection. However, when Mark Hofmann himself was injured in a bombing the next day, it became clear the events were tied to the documents. Peggy and her husband were warned they might be in danger, even checking their wedding presents for bombs and staying away from their apartment. This personal connection means Peggy always knows how long it's been since the bombings by her wedding anniversary. Reflecting on that time, she acknowledged her lack of training as a journalist then and the difficulty of knowing Hofmann was lying. Even LDS Church leaders were fooled. Path to Salt Lake Tribune Peggy's path to the Salt Lake Tribune was somewhat unexpected. After her time in Kenya, she and her husband moved to New York City, where she worked various jobs, including editing at a medical ethics think tank, working for the United Methodist Church communications department,

Joseph Smith's bank went under back in 1837. Those banknotes he printed are now worth much more money! Brent Ashworth shares his Kirtland bank notes from the Kirtland Safety Society signed by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, & Sidney Rigdon! He also shares Lorenzo Snow's prison diary, and we'll also play a Bing Crosby record from the 1930s on an early 1900s phonograph! Check out our conversation... Don’t miss our other conversations with Brent: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brent-ashworth transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

How did Brent Ashworth get started in collecting Mormon memorabilia? He started at age 7! We'll discuss his first collections from the prophet Heber J Grant, his 1st edition Book of Mormon, and other documents he has related to Joseph Smith and early Church history! Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/XZQ_2YRDYEQ Don’t miss our other conversations with Brent: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brent-ashworth transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

Brent Ashworth has not only Church history artifacts, but Elvis memorabilia, a piece of the Spirit of St Louis, and a 1st Edition Book of Mormon used at School of the Prophets in Kirtland! Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/2XAc8ut6BPQ Don’t miss our other conversations with Brent: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brent-ashworth transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

Why is it called the Vinegar Bible? Brent Ashworth has a Bible from 1716, an ad from the Titanic, Ulysses Grant's desk, Heber Grant's chair, and much more! Check out his amazing museum! https://youtu.be/Xq1FzZNDTpE Don’t miss our other conversations with Brent: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brent-ashworth transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

Brent Ashworth has one of the largest Americana & Mormon Memorabilia collections in Utah. He discusses artifacts ranging from the Civil War, Elvis, Pearl Harbor, Mark Hofmann forgeries, LDS prophets, Babe Ruth, and much, much more! We're giving a tour of his mini-museum! Check out our conversation.... https://youtu.be/B3XKyQnB1wQ Don’t miss our other conversations with Brent: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brent-ashworth transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission   transcript to follow Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.