Dr. John Vervaeke

In this episode, Brendan Graham Dempsey discusses the meaning crisis and spirituality in metamodernity. He explores emergentism and the meaning of meaning, emphasizing the history of cultural meaning-making systems. The episode also touches on unified theories of reality, cosmic evolution, information theory of individuality, and symbolic evolution. The conversation reflects on the intersection of spirituality and naturalism, distributed cognition, and the evolution of worldviews. It concludes with a discussion on navigating chaos with courage and wisdom.

Dr. John Vervaeke and Greg Thomas discuss 'Democracy as Antagonistic Cooperation' by drawing parallels with jazz. They emphasize the importance of a shared cultural repertoire in shaping democracy. They touch upon the interdependencies in politics and the influence of Black Americans on democracy. They explore the transformative virtues necessary for the functioning of democracy and the role of humor in a democratic setup.

Dr. John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques lead an insightful discussion with guests Dr. Rich Blundell and Rita Leduc, diving into the heart of creativity, art, and cognitive science. The conversation explores the profound concepts of cognitive approaches, creativity, the importance of intimacy in art, and the link between ecological health and economic wealth. As the guests share their unique perspectives on life, creativity, and science, they lay out a path for deeper understanding, and encourage exploration beyond the surface. The episode also features a thought-provoking discussion on niche construction, ecological intelligence, and the interconnectivity of nature and culture.   Resources:   Oika Oika Spain - Fred Adam Incomprehensible Certainty: Metaphysics and Hermeneutics of the Image - Thomas Pfau   Quotes:   "Extended naturalism is committed to all of that. There's a difference between knowledge and grasping the significance of the knowledge, especially the significance for personal transformation. When one grasps that significance so that one overcomes ways in which one is self-deceptive, disconnected from reality so that one understands reality in a way that transforms one. That's a good account of what wisdom is." - Dr. John Vervaeke   “I call it the process of acquaintance. I aspectualize my understanding of that place. I use so many different media and techniques—different muscle memories, different colors, sensory things, let as much in as possible, but also let myself in. This is, in fact, me trying to understand myself at a particular time and place.” - Rite LeDuc   “The garden provides a place for the two cultures of the academy—science and humanity—to come together in a mutually inspiring dialectical dance.” - Gregg Henriques Timecodes:   [00:00:00] Dr. John Vervaeke introduces the episode and highlights the interconnectivity of the Cognitive Science series and guests. He presents the ongoing Oika framework discussion.   [00:02:24] Dr. Blundell starts his summary of the previous discussion by addressing the difference in approaches to using propositional knowledge and creating theoretical frameworks.   [00:09:52] Gregg Henriques emphasizes the need to clarify worldviews and values. He speaks about embodying and living these values in social practices.   [00:12:20] Rita Leduc talks about stepping out of comfort zones, embracing vulnerability, and building trust. She emphasizes the experiential mode for creatives.   [00:19:00] Rita explains her artistic process, describing it as a process of acquaintance where she attempts to understand a place, using different media and techniques to aspectualize her understanding.   [00:24:16] Dr. Vervaeke discusses the coherency of different aspects, likening them to melody notes rather than cacophony.    [00:28:14] The discussion turns towards the aspectualization of dialogically enhancing understanding of a place. Dr. Rich Blundell shares an anecdote about filming a documentary, highlighting the immersive and transformative nature of the creative process.   [00:32:52] Dr. Vervaeke explores mental framing, linking it to art creation. He draws parallels to the Eastern Orthodox tradition of icon carving.   [00:34:53] Rita Leduc explains the idea of niche construction in her practice, showcasing her unique artistic philosophy.   [00:41:30] Dr. Vervaeke seeks further explanation of niche construction in Rita's art. Dr. Rich Blundell explains how Rita's process of creating art involves letting the world shape her and creating an artifact that becomes part of the world.   [00:47:06] Dr. John Vervaeke draws a connection to wisdom and the process of internalizing the world and its spiritual intelligence. Leduc connects her feelings and experiences in the woods to a cosmic story. She describes how this connection affirms her creativity.   [00:49:23] Dr. Rich Blundell discusses the concept of Eidos and how it relates to the process of life emerging from non-life.   [00:51:55] Gregg Henriques talks about the reawakening of intimacy across various aspects of life. Dr. Vervaeke prompts Henriques to elaborate on the concept of intimacy, emphasizing its recovery in modern society.   ​​[00:53:00] Henriques explores the idea of embodiment of intimacy across ontological continuity and how it has been lost in modern socialization.   [00:57:00] Dr. Rich Blundell introduces the idea of radical affection and falling back in love with life.   [01:00:36] Rita criticizes superficiality in work and encourages deep intimacy.  [01:06:02] Dr. Blundell shares various projects, including European collaborations and economic models. He discusses the importance of recoupling economic wealth and ecological health, highlighting how artists can contribute to this through their unique practices.   [01:10:44] Discussion about how art is now back in service of the sacred, overturning the modern and postmodern thrust in art, and how the art around the sacred predates agriculture and is probably the precursor to civilization, challenging certain reductionist accounts of human behavior.   [01:17:20] - Gregg Henriques underscores the significance of Oika and its connection to art. He reflects on his own journey and the importance of cognitive science and psychology in filling explanatory gaps, and he emphasizes the need to appreciate our natural intelligence as we transition into the artificial world.  

Dr. John Vervaeke sits down with Greg Thomas, a renowned jazz musician, and musicologist, to delve into the first of a multi-part series. They embark on a journey, exploring the intersections of jazz, blues, leadership, and life. Greg integrates his deep understanding of music into a leadership program, shedding light on how jazz serves as a potent metaphor for leadership and team cohesion in contemporary workspaces. Beyond its rhythmic allure, jazz becomes a powerful tool for understanding democracy, cultural intelligence, and the intricacies of human interactions. They also touch upon the profound philosophical dimensions of blues and its reflection on life's challenges, struggles, and ultimate triumphs. The conversation gracefully traverses through personal anecdotes, profound quotes, and philosophical insights, positioning jazz not just as a musical genre but as a deep existential commentary on life and leadership.   Resources:   Jazz Leadership Project Jazz Leadership Project Blog A Brief Intro Into the Blues Idiom Wisdom Tradition Primary Principles of Jazz "Billy Boy" from Miles Davis' Milestones album (full version) Esoteric Jazz: Pat Martino in Dialogue John Vervaeke: Democracy and the Relevance Realization of Distributed Cognition After Socrates: Episode 22 - Exploring The I-Thou Wynton Marsalis Albert Murray:  Stomping the Blues | From the Briarpatch File: On Context, Procedure, and American Identity The Consolation of Boethius as Poetic Liturgy - Stephen Blackwood Finite and Infinite Games - James Carse Trading Twelves: The Selected Letters of Ralph Ellison and Albert Murray Group Genius: The Creative Power of Collaboration - Keith Sawyer The Three Trumpeteers - Nicholas Payton Take My Hand, Precious Lord - Thomas Dorsey   Timecodes: 00:00:00 Introduction - Dr. John Vervaeke introduces the episode and announces a collaboration with Greg Thomas, integrating music into a leadership program. 00:01:00 Jazz as Metaphor for Leadership - Greg Thomas speaks about his role at the Jazz Leadership Project and how he uses jazz as a metaphor for workplace leadership. He highlights musical principles guiding effective teamwork and leadership. 00:02:40 Three Key Discussion Topics - Greg outlines three key discussion topics, including jazz as an embodied art and democracy's relationship with E pluribus unum, emphasizing jazz's multi-faceted relevance. 00:06:13 Jazz and Tai Chi Chuan - Dr. Vervaeke shares his experiences with jazz and its parallels to Tai Chi Chuan, bridging Eastern practices and jazz, underscoring their shared themes of flow and embodiment. 00:10:00 Blues Music and Its Relation to Jazz - The topic of blues music and its relation to jazz is introduced. As jazz's precursor, the blues provides historical and emotional context to their conversation. 00:17:05 MLK's View of Jazz - Greg discusses Dr. Martin Luther King's view of jazz as a medium for meaning, love, happiness, and faith. 00:22:00 Role of Blues in Articulating Life Experiences - Dr. Vervaeke delves into the role of blues in articulating life experiences and nurturing wisdom. 00:23:51 Experiencing vs. Playing the Blues - The difference between experiencing the blues and playing them, with emphasis on musical expression as a coping mechanism, sheds light on how art allows individuals to confront life's challenges. 00:28:20 Mythic Foundation of Blues - References to Albert Murray's work and discussion on the mythic foundation of blues music. Tying the blues to myths underscores its timeless, universal appeal. 00:34:40 Philosophical Aspects of Blues - Philosophical aspects of blues music are discussed, comparing them to existentialism, unraveling the blues' ability to reflect on life's questions. 00:39:40 Universal Themes in Music - Dr. Vervaeke draws parallels between the Jewish exile and broader themes of exile, emphasizing the universality of themes within music and human history. 00:43:22 Jazz as Homegrown Wisdom Tradition - The discussion shifts to the four Ps (propositional, procedural, participatory, and perspectival) in the context of jazz. Dr. Vervaeke and Greg Thomas discuss jazz and blues as a homegrown wisdom tradition in the United States. 00:48:46 Global Influence of Black American Music - Greg Thomas highlights the global influence of black American music and his commitment to sharing its lineage with the world. 00:54:26 Jazz Apprenticeship Tradition - Greg Thomas explains the apprentice tradition in jazz and how it transitioned into an educational program. 00:57:15 Jazz's Adaptability - Greg touches on the adaptability of jazz, relating it to Aristotle's lasting wisdom. 01:00:00 Disposition Towards Elegance - Greg quotes from Murray's book, discussing the descendants of American slaves' disposition towards elegance, providing context for understanding the roots of jazz and blues. 01:03:20 Shared Leadership - Introduction of the concept of "Shared leadership," emphasizing mutual accountability and using jazz ensemble dynamics as a metaphor for collaborative teamwork.  

Dr. John Vervaeke leads a discussion on transcendent naturalism, the Enlightenment Gap, and interconnectedness with guests. The conversation covers topics like embedded cognitive science, the cosmos, and the impact of social media on perception. They bridge science and spirituality, emphasizing joy, connectedness, and a deeper understanding of reality.

Dr. John Vervaeke and Bishop Maximus (Marretta) embark on a profound journey to challenge conventional notions of mind and consciousness. They critique representational theory, advocating for a conformist perspective. Dr. Vervaeke introduces integrating independent processes to determine relevance and illustrates how we can be aware through objects. The transformative power of attention is revealed, urging listeners to unlock hidden potential. Mesmerizing discussions connect martial arts, tai chi, and music, showcasing the art of "serious play." Wisdom from the inverted triangle in martial arts emphasizes self-improvement and strategic advantage. Bishop Maximus highlights the importance of accessible language bridging cognitive science with religious backgrounds. Timecodes: [00:00:00] Bishop Maximus introduces the problem with representational theory of mind and the need for a conformist view. [00:01:07] Bishop Maximus proposes an alternative orthodox conception of an iconographical, symbolic understanding of the mind. [00:03:48] Exploration of the concept of attention and the limitations of representational theories [00:05:00] Discussion of symbols in the Orthodox Church as means of representation with broader patterns and emphasis that Orthodox understanding of symbols complements the conformity theory of knowledge. [00:08:00] Dr. John Vervaeke delves into attention, debunking the spotlight analogy, explaining cognitive unison, and discusses integrating independent processes to determine relevance in situations. He presents an experiment showcasing awareness through tactile perception. [00:11:52] Explanation of the concept of looking through something, expanding our understanding of attention. [00:18:29] Dr. Vervaeke explains the concept of the inverted triangle in martial arts and its strategic advantages, and draws parallels between tai chi and music, exploring the idea of 'serious play.' [00:20:20] Dr. Vervaeke delves into the language of mastery and self-improvement. [00:27:33] Bishop Maximus discusses using accessible language to explain cognitive science to those from a religious background highlighting the value of conversations across beliefs and practices. He discusses the relevance of the discussion beyond religious backgrounds.

Dr. John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques discuss the significance of rituals, transcendent experiences, and the global meaning crisis. They delve into the healing potential of rituals, the intersection of rationality and wisdom, and the transformative power of non-verbal rituals. The conversation highlights the importance of addressing the current meaning crisis and presents transcendent naturalism as a way forward.

Dr. John Vervaeke and Bishop Maximus (Marretta) explore a vast terrain of topics, from the rapid advancements in AI and their implications on privacy to the inherent biases ingrained in human cognition. Dr. Vervaeke shares intriguing insights on the potential threats and advantages of AI, particularly deepfake technology while highlighting the interrelation between human and machine. The discourse dives deep into cognitive biases and the practical techniques to overcome them, such as active open-mindedness. Moreover, the integration of stoic practices in Orthodox monastic traditions offers an intriguing perspective on the balance between modernity and spirituality. As AI continues to raise questions about consciousness, theology emerges as a key tool to provide answers, fostering a stronger sense of spirituality. The episode concludes with Dr. Vervaeke's profound understanding of memory, emphasizing its reconstructive nature, and offering actionable strategies for memory improvement. Time Codes: 00:00:00 - Dr. Vervaeke compares studying strategies to taking a canoe to Europe. 00:01:40 - Debate on governments' potential to read minds with the advent of AGI. 00:03:00 - The imminent threat posed by deepfake technology is discussed. 00:07:00 - Dr. Vervaeke's revelation that humans are essentially cyborgs in today's age. 00:13:20 - Introduction of the nine-dot problem, representing the complexities of human cognition. 00:15:20 - Experiment on increasing solution rates using transcranial direct current stimulation. 00:24:20 - Using automobiles as an example of biases affecting our decision-making. 00:27:40 - Delving into stoic practices for combating biases. 00:33:20 - Exploring the transformative power of rituals in problem-solving. 00:35:00 - Introduction of the meta-crisis comprising ecological, energy, and political issues. 00:38:00 - Discussing the relationship between wealth, well-being, and life's meaning. 00:45:00 - Emphasizing the sacrifices made by those in monastic life for greater meaning. 00:49:20 - The potential return of theology due to the rise of AI. 00:53:20 - Tackling profound questions about consciousness posed by AI. 01:04:00 - Introducing the "chunking" concept for effective memory.

Dr. John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques continue their thought-provoking exploration of Transcendent Naturalism by examining extended naturalism, neoplatonism, and the dimensions of sacredness. They challenge conventional notions of sacredness by examining its connection with strong transcendence and discussing Spinoza's insights into nature, God's ultimate reality, and the universe's deterministic nature, aligning with the Neoplatonic framework. They discuss religious perspectives, comparing classical and common theism and their evolution, while addressing the interplay between energy, consciousness, and reality, highlighting the philosophical underpinnings of theism. They also intriguingly differentiate spirituality from religion, both rooted in the concept of the sacred, and discuss symbolic ideals, spiritual richness, consequential history, and the profound significance of consequential decisions in our lives.   Resources: The Case for God - Karen Armstrong Religion and Nothingness - Keiji Nishitani Thinking Being: Introduction to Metaphysics in the Classical Tradition - Eric Pearl Consilience: The Unity of Knowledge - Edward Osborne Wilson   Time-codes: [00:00:00] Dr. John Vervaeke outlines the episode's structure: extended naturalism, the meaning of sacredness within extended naturalism, the concept of strong transcendence, and three phenomena where people traditionally express a sense of transcendence: rituals, altered states of consciousness, and belonging to a worldview. [00:04:53] Dr. Vervaeke dives into the first topic, extended naturalism. He discusses the consilience between structural and content arguments in the context of neoplatonism. [00:07:36] Discussion of Spinoza's distinction between nature nurturing and nature being nurtured, a concept that explores the relationship between top-down and bottom-up processes in nature, bringing  forward the idea of God not as a physical entity but as the source of all existence and understanding. [00:15:14] Dr. John Vervaeke discusses the features of common theism and its basis in classical theology, shares his perspective on the debates between theists and atheists, and the conception of God as a supreme being  [00:18:00] The concept of God as the ground that supports continual self-transcendence, and a contemplative discussion on theism's classical and common forms, pushing the boundaries of philosophical exploration. [00:25:19] A deep dive into how truth can exist outside our understanding, challenging conventional beliefs. [00:30:20] Dr. Vervaeke delves into the concept of sacredness, describing it as an inexhaustible and paradoxical fountain of intelligibility. He also highlights the limitations of traditional propositional knowing in fully comprehending this concept. [00:37:23] The concepts of soul and spirit as ineffable aspects of human experience, with the soul, referring to the groundedness of our experiences and spirit pointing to our capacity for self-transcendence, and discussion on the connection between the symbolic ideal and the transcendent, [00:38:09] Symbolic Ideals & Transcendence: Gregg Henriques links symbolic ideals to deeper philosophical perspectives, enriching discourse. [00:41:20] Dr. John Vervaeke explains the concept of sacredness as a transjective experience, providing a new perspective on the understanding of sacredness. [00:44:53] Gregg Henriques introduces a proposes a new concept of inconsequential versus consequential history; viewing historical events based on their long-term impact. [00:55:00] Dr. John Vervaeke outlines his plan to explore the deep interconnections between an extended notion of rationality and ritual and their power, including an explanation of how and why we experience strong transcendence within ritual experiences, within the framework of extended naturalism. Qoutes: “Strong transcendence has epistemological and ontological import. The idea is that there are truths about reality that are disclosed only when one goes through a transcendence, which also gives you access to different levels of knowing.” - Dr. John Vervaeke   “Generalizability in and of itself it's not really intelligibility. It’s generalizability in relationship to the capacity for differentiation held in appropriate dialectic. There's a generalizable differentiation polarity where the poles between the two is going to afford intelligibility, and it's the right relationship of that t that is fundamentally key.” - Gregg Henriques  

Dr. John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques discuss Transcendent Naturalism and the urgent need for a new worldview. They critique education, knowledge systems, capitalism, and consumerism. The discussion also explores loneliness, disconnection from nature, and transforming knowledge into wisdom systems. They propose coherent integrated pluralism and delve into emergence and the potential for a complex adaptive plane. This thought-provoking episode invites listeners to explore ontology, intelligence, and the importance of collective action in shaping a sustainable metaculture.