Dr. John Vervaeke engages in a multi-faceted conversation with Carla Groom, who is ingeniously incorporating cognitive science into her work. Vervaeke provides a scholarly background on mental models, drawing from philosophy and cognitive science to elucidate how humans make sense of their world. Groom shares her front-line experiences, revealing how these theories translate into actionable insights in government. The discussion evolves into a kaleidoscope of ideas, from the dynamics of mental models in decision-making to the nuanced philosophy of 'we agency' and collective intelligence. The conversation not only dissects the complexities of problem-solving in the public sector but also expands to the cosmos as they explore how NASA scientists navigate rovers on Mars. Focusing on the intricate balance between human cognition and the demands of large organizational structures, this episode is an intellectual treasure trove for anyone fascinated by the crossroads of cognitive science, governance, and human behavior.
Carla Groom is a pioneering force in the realm of behavioral science, currently steering the field of Human-Centred Design Science at the UK's Department of Work and Pensions. With a doctorate in social psychology from Northwestern University, she identified fundamental flaws in traditional empirical research methods, leading her to become a luminary in policy and organizational decision-making. Carla's unique practice focuses on debunking false assumptions in policy design by digging deep into contextual human behavior. Not only is she a sought-after conference speaker and academic peer reviewer, but she also thrives on educating others in her transformative methods. Her multidisciplinary team of experts continually enriches her own understanding, making her a perpetual student in a field in which she has substantially evolved.
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Carla Groom: LinkedIn | X
John Vervaeke: Website | Patreon | Facebook | X | YouTube
The Vervaeke Foundation
Circling & Dialogos - workshop
John Vervaeke — YouTube:
Climbing Mt. Sophia
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Brett Andersen
Mark Miller
Geoffrey Hinton
Cory Lewis
Timecodes:
00:00:00 — Dr. John Vervaeke introduces Carla Groom, a UK government employee who is working on integrating cognitive science into her work. She acts as a liaison between various UK civil service departments.
00:01:20 — They discuss the challenges of understanding the underlying assumptions and mental models that people bring to problem-solving and communication.
00:07:33 — Dr. John Vervaeke discusses the concept of mental models as proposed by Philip Johnson-Laird, which he describes as a mixture of a picture and propositional labels used to model a situation.
00:15:00 — Carla Groom talks about simulating changes and responses in the UK government's hierarchical system.
00:19:20 — Dr. Vervaeke elaborates on how models act as emissaries for a worldview.
00:24:31 — The discussion centers on causality in understanding and solving issues.
00:30:09 — Groom raises questions about the hidden factors that influence our paths to success.
00:33:20 — Dr. Vervaeke shares an anecdote about NASA scientists forming connections with rovers.
00:39:07 – Vervaeke emphasizes the importance of understanding a minister's worldview.
00:44:30 — Carla emphasizes the need for new mental models in systemic thinking.
00:47:28 — Carla Groom agrees with Vervaeke on the necessity for evolving worldviews.
00:50:38 — The challenge of translating specialist language is discussed.
00:55:40 — The tension between domain specificity and professional specialization is examined.
00:58:20 — John Vervaeke explains the practice of oscillating between specialized processing and collective reasoning.
01:03:40 — Carla urges appreciation for the complexity in government problems.
Dr. John Vervaeke 