Dr. John Vervaeke

Seth Allison, a psychotherapist specializing in IFS and contemplative growth, guides a rich dialogue between Dick Schwartz, creator of Internal Family Systems, and John Vervaeke, a cognitive scientist and philosopher. They explore protective parts, the compassionate Self, relevance realization, spiritual guides, Hermes, trauma, psychedelics, and whether IFS can help recover wisdom lost in modernity.

Charles Stang, Harvard scholar of late antique Christianity and author of Our Divine Double, explores Apuleius’ vision of philosophy as daimonology. The conversation ranges from divine doubles, angels, grief encounters, and the dialogical self to intuition, 4E cognition, ritual, and discernment. John Vervaeke also shares vivid experiences involving Hermes, setting the stage for a deeper journey into Plotinus and the daimonic.

What was Socrates actually hearing when his daimon spoke, and why might the space in-between, neither purely inside us nor fully outside us, be the key to discerning spirits today? In part two of the Lectern series on the daimon, Charles Stang and John Vervaeke move from Plato to Socrates' other witnesses, Xenophon and Aristophanes. Charles shows that the indictment against Socrates charged him with not worshipping the gods of the state (theoi) and with bringing in novel divinities (daimonia), and that Xenophon defends him by presenting his daimonion as ordinary divination. John responds from cognitive science, describing a continuum of felt presence experiences, and warns against two opposite biases: treating every such entity as demonic, or trusting every one as a benevolent guide. Drawing on his own ongoing dialogues with Hermes, he argues that discernment of spirits is a learnable skill, more like a martial art than a set of propositions. The discussion then turns to Aristophanes' The Clouds, where Socrates is satirised hanging in a basket among divinities of the air, and on to breath, Tai Chi, and enacted metaphor. From suspension they arrive at betweenness: Diotima's description of Eros as a daimon, the philosopher as metaxu, and finite transcendence, before closing on how the meaning crisis has left us without ways to discern spirits, setting up the next conversation on Apuleius. Charles Stang is Professor of Early Christian Thought at Harvard Divinity School and Director of the Center for the Study of World Religions at Harvard. In this episode, he examines Socrates' daimon through the witness of Xenophon and Aristophanes, and the ancient association of daimons with air and with the space between humans and gods. John Vervaeke is a cognitive scientist and philosopher whose work explores cognition, meaning, wisdom, and the meaning crisis. In this conversation, he brings cognitive science, embodied practice, and his ongoing dialogues with Hermes to bear on the daimon, felt presence, and the discernment of spirits. Study the daimon with Charles: Daemons in Divinity on The Lectern Charles Stang's Web Memorabilia - Xenophon The Clouds - Aristophanes Symposium - Plato Apology - Plato Presence - Ben Alderson-Day Being and the Between - William Desmond 00:00 Cold open: entity encounters 01:50 Welcome back, Charles Stang 03:00 Recap: Plato's Socrates daimon 04:30 Xenophon's Memorabilia 05:20 The indictment: theoi vs. daimonia 08:10 Divination and divine signs 09:40 Xenophon's two novelties 11:20 Psychology of felt presence 16:40 Beyond binary ontology 19:50 Impiety and corrupting youth 21:20 Hermes and bipolar bias 28:50 Psychedelic entity encounters 31:00 Discernment as martial art 35:00 Pivot to The Clouds 38:50 Socrates in a basket 42:00 Spiritual alchemy and elements 44:00 Cerebellum and enacted metaphor 48:00 Why air? Breath as bridge 53:20 Suspending judgment and Tai Chi 55:40 Betweenness and Diotima's Eros 57:30 Metaxu and finite transcendence 59:02 "We are not transcendent purely. That is to be a god. We are not merely finite. That is to be an animal." 01:00:50 Meaning crisis, lost discernment 01:03:50 William Desmond and the metaxu 01:06:50 Closing thanks The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Thank you for listening!

How do you make deep philosophical and transformative work accessible to more people without sacrificing the precision, rigor, and depth that make it meaningful in the first place? John Vervaeke, with Ethan Hsieh and Taylor Barratt, discusses recurring feedback that his work is meaningful but hard to share, and the ethical tension between precision and epistemic responsibility on one side and making ideas broadly shareable on the other. They describe practical steps already taken or planned: clearer scaffolding in Lectern courses, additional instructors, a teaching-assistance program, adapting content into books, new pathways through the large YouTube catalog, and shorter thematic overview videos. They also introduce a 12-module Studio app built around a 5–15 minute daily practice habit, with an AI "coach" designed with ethical constraints, to translate key ideas (the four Ps, relevance realization, DIME) into accessible practice. Finally, they outline a tiered practice ecosystem of intensives, retreats, and the Reframe Festival (June 3–6, 2027, Colorado), plus a six-week Awaken to Meaning practice course, and invite good-faith audience feedback. Together, they explore: the challenge of making John Vervaeke's philosophical and scientific work more accessible without sacrificing rigor why accessibility involves more than simply making information easier to understand the tension between precision, epistemic responsibility, and reaching a broader audience why accessibility also includes financial, educational, relational, and structural dimensions how The Lectern can create different entry points for people with different levels of experience the role of the Studio app in helping people build a habit of practice how group practice, watch parties, and supportive relationships make philosophical practice more sustainable how the Four Ps of Knowing, relevance realization, and the DIME framework are introduced through a more accessible structure why a structured approach can help people who struggle with executive functioning the different levels of engagement offered through courses, practice groups, retreats, intensives, and festivals how practice communities can function like a dojo for developing skills 00:00 Why Accessibility Matters 00:30 Welcome and Video Purpose 02:00 Accuracy vs Accessibility Tension 07:00 Taylor on Vulnerability and Reach 10:00 Practice and Relationship Impacts 13:26 "How do we make it accessible such that people who don't have to work an extra job just to be able to pay for a course?" 14:30 Progressive Teaching and Prereqs 20:00 Multiple Mediums and Channel Overload 24:00 New Access Pathways and Shorter Videos 26:00 Introducing the Practice App 28:30 App Modules and Daily Habit Design 32:00 AI Coach Feature and Ethics 34:30 Ethan on Pedagogy and Core Ideas 36:30 Habit Gap After Insight 38:00 App as Training Wheels 39:30 ADHD Friendly Structure 42:00 Tiered Practice Pathways 44:30 Reframe Festival Details 47:00 Retreats Between Intensives 49:30 Hardcore Training Track 54:00 Ecosystem Not Closed 56:30 Feedback and Next Steps 58:00 Six Week Practice Gateway 01:01:30 Final Encouragement and Thanks Resources Find Clarity and Connection in a Noisy World App Teaching Assistance Program (TAP) Reframe Festival from Awaken to Meaning Relational Ecology Program (REP) on Awaken to Meaning Explore courses and teachings from The Lectern Support the Lectern and join a growing community of wisdom seekers on Patreon Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Thank you for listening!

What if the problem isn't that religions disagree, but that we invented the idea that you can only belong to one? In this Silk Road Seminar, John Vervaeke sits down with theologian John J. Thatamanil, author of Circling the Elephant: A Comparative Theology of Religious Diversity. Thatamanil traces his path from the ancient Mar Thoma Christian tradition of South India to comparative theology, and makes the case that our modern idea of "religion" is a recent invention, born alongside the secular, entangled with colonialism and racialization, and built to sort people into single, sealed boxes. Together, they explore: Why religion is not a natural kind, and why the village atheist and the fundamentalist mirror each other Tillich, participation, and God as the ground of being rather than a being Religion as comprehensive qualitative orientation: interpretive schemes and therapeutic regimes that "true" our desires Semiotic symbiosis, process perennialism, and horizontal vs. vertical non-dualism Pilgrims, not tourists: how deep practice across traditions renews faith Why capitalism functions as a religion, and where hope lives now John J. Thatamanil is Professor of Theology and World Religions at Union Theological Seminary in New York. His work in comparative theology focuses on Hindu and Buddhist non-dualism and the possibility of a Christian non-dualism. He is the author of Circling the Elephant and The Immanent Divine. Books mentioned: Circling the Elephant (John J. Thatamanil), In Praise of Mixed Religion (Victoria S. Harrison), Without Buddha I Could Not Be a Christian (Paul Knitter), The Invention of Religion in Japan (Jason Ānanda Josephson). 00:00 Welcome to the Silk Road Seminar 01:41 From Mar Thoma Christianity to comparative theology 07:37 Religion and its "Siamese twin," the secular 12:36 Why religion isn't a natural kind 22:24 The village atheist and facile theism 29:07 Tillich, participation, and the ground of being 36:11 Religion as comprehensive qualitative orientation 43:08 Interpretive schemes and therapeutic regimes 47:09 Jesus, the Buddha, and truth as a person 48:37 Dialogos and semiotic symbiosis 56:55 "Multiplicity is life, and singularity is almost always death." 01:00:51 Perennialism vs. process perennialism 01:08:32 Love, knowledge, and the post-truth condition 01:12:40 Q&A: Traditionalism, perennialism, and Eliade 01:19:27 Horizontal and vertical non-dualism 01:25:13 Narrative archetypes and "Protestant Buddhism" 01:32:19 Is capitalism a religion? 01:38:01 What gives you hope? The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Thank you for listening!

Charles Stang, a Harvard professor of early Christian thought and author of Our Divine Double, explores the ancient Greek daimon. He traces Socrates’ inner sign, the divine double as counterpart or highest faculty, and the challenge of discerning genuine guidance from self-deception. They discuss daimons as intermediaries, theater and reading as transformative encounters, and recovering a multidimensional, “vertical” self.

What if religion was never really about belief, but about how we make meaning? Trust in institutions like religion, law, science, and journalism is collapsing, yet some of the most demanding traditions, like Eastern Orthodoxy and the traditional Latin Mass, are growing as people seek ritual, discipline, and transformation. In this talk, John Vervaeke argues it is increasingly difficult to study human cognition without studying religion, pointing to the co-emergence of religion and human cognition, the importance of imaginal cognition, altered states and mystical experience, and non-propositional knowing in 4E cognitive science. He critiques first-generation cognitive science of religion for treating religions as irrational, belief-based "failed science" and for ignoring religious studies. Drawing on ethnography and genealogy, he argues that religions are porous, syncretistic ecologies of practice, that the "religion" construct is historically contingent, and that a process theory should ask how people become religious, including through credibility-enhancing displays. In this talk, John explores: why religion continues to matter in a modern world that often considers itself increasingly secular how cognitive science has shaped, and sometimes limited, our understanding of religion the rise of the "imaginal" and its role in human cognition and religious experience why religion cannot be reduced to belief or explained simply as a cognitive byproduct how science and religion became divided through modern dichotomies why cognitive science needs to engage with insights from religious studies how religions are porous, interconnected, and shaped through historical exchange how Equus illustrates the relationship between sacred meaning and human experience why religion is better understood as an ecology of practices rather than a system of beliefs how credibility-enhancing displays (CREDs) shape participation in traditions how institutional trust, religious revival, and the contemporary "trust apocalypse" are connected how fluency and participation can open pathways toward mystical experience 00:00 Welcome To The Lectern 01:00 Religious Revival Paradox 02:00 Why Cognition Needs Religion 03:30 The Rise Of The Imaginal 06:00 Spiritual Not Religious 07:15 Early CogSci Religion Assumptions 09:45 Adaptation Vs Byproduct Debate 11:30 NOMA And Modern Dichotomies 15:00 Postmodern Critique Of Binaries 18:30 Why Consult Religious Studies 20:15 Religions Are Porous Not Pure 21:45 The Origin Of God Genealogy 27:00 Equus And Sacred Meaning 28:45 Equus In The Dark 30:30 Syncretism And Capitalism 31:30 Religion As Practice Ecology 32:45 CRED And Becoming Rational 35:45 Meaning Sacred And Apprenticeship 37:30 Process Theory Of Religion 41:00 Genealogy And Imperial Construct 44:00 Q&A Rejecting The Sacred 46:30 Institutions Trust And Revival 50:00 Beauty Fluency Mysticism — Explore courses and teachings from The Lectern https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/ Support the Lectern and join a growing community of wisdom seekers https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon — Thank you for listening! What if religion was never really about belief, but about how we make meaning? Trust in institutions like religion, law, science, and journalism is collapsing, yet some of the most demanding traditions, like Eastern Orthodoxy and the traditional Latin Mass, are growing as people seek ritual, discipline, and transformation. In this talk, John Vervaeke argues it is increasingly difficult to study human cognition without studying religion, pointing to the co-emergence of religion and human cognition, the importance of imaginal cognition, altered states and mystical experience, and non-propositional knowing in 4E cognitive science. He critiques first-generation cognitive science of religion for treating religions as irrational, belief-based "failed science" and for ignoring religious studies. Drawing on ethnography and genealogy, he argues that religions are porous, syncretistic ecologies of practice, that the "religion" construct is historically contingent, and that a process theory should ask how people become religious, including through credibility-enhancing displays. In this talk, John explores: why religion continues to matter in a modern world that often considers itself increasingly secular how cognitive science has shaped, and sometimes limited, our understanding of religion the rise of the "imaginal" and its role in human cognition and religious experience why religion cannot be reduced to belief or explained simply as a cognitive byproduct how science and religion became divided through modern dichotomies why cognitive science needs to engage with insights from religious studies how religions are porous, interconnected, and shaped through historical exchange how Equus illustrates the relationship between sacred meaning and human experience why religion is better understood as an ecology of practices rather than a system of beliefs how credibility-enhancing displays (CREDs) shape participation in traditions how institutional trust, religious revival, and the contemporary "trust apocalypse" are connected how fluency and participation can open pathways toward mystical experience 00:00 Welcome To The Lectern 01:00 Religious Revival Paradox 02:00 Why Cognition Needs Religion 03:30 The Rise Of The Imaginal 06:00 Spiritual Not Religious 07:15 Early CogSci Religion Assumptions 09:45 Adaptation Vs Byproduct Debate 11:30 NOMA And Modern Dichotomies 15:00 Postmodern Critique Of Binaries 18:30 Why Consult Religious Studies 20:15 Religions Are Porous Not Pure 21:45 The Origin Of God Genealogy 27:00 Equus And Sacred Meaning 28:45 Equus In The Dark 30:30 Syncretism And Capitalism 31:30 Religion As Practice Ecology 32:45 CRED And Becoming Rational 35:45 Meaning Sacred And Apprenticeship 37:30 Process Theory Of Religion 41:00 Genealogy And Imperial Construct 44:00 Q&A Rejecting The Sacred 46:30 Institutions Trust And Revival 50:00 Beauty Fluency Mysticism — Explore courses and teachings from The Lectern https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/ Support the Lectern and join a growing community of wisdom seekers https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon — Thank you for listening!

Philosopher Christopher Oldfield and writer Elizabeth Oldfield, who explore wisdom, spirituality, and relational life, discuss their intentional Christian household in London. They examine shared prayer, hospitality, conflict, confession, friendship, and communal rhythms as practices of formation. The conversation also explores collective intelligence, renewed senses, attachment, sacred perception, and how discernment can protect community from toxic religion.

What if God isn't a finished substance standing outside the world, but a living process we participate in? In this Silk Road Seminar, John Vervaeke is joined by process philosophers Andrew M. Davis and Matt Segall. John opens with the core moves of Seeing God Again for the First Time and the Philosophical Silk Road: dissolving modernity's dichotomies, renewing our sense of the sacred, and moving between traditions as a pilgrim rather than a tourist. From there, the three bring Whitehead's process thought into dialogue with Neoplatonism, Daoism, and Buddhism. Together, they explore: Process perennialism vs. propositional perennialism Primordiality, ultimacy, and the consequent nature of God Why God is not an individualized substance, and what that means for theism and atheism Hartshorne's dipolar theism and a dynamic view of perfection Anatheism, non-duality, and the inexhaustible sacred Faith as disposition rather than propositional assent, and the criteria for judging deeper framings of reality Andrew M. Davis leads research and conference programming at the Center for Process Studies. He is the author of Mind, Value, and Cosmos: On the Relational Nature of Ultimacy and the forthcoming Whitehead's Universe: A Prismatic Introduction (Orbis Books). Matt Segall is a professor at the California Institute of Integral Studies, where he teaches process philosophy and German idealism, approaching philosophy as a transformative practice. Center for Process Studies | Andrew M. Davis | Matt Segall (Footnotes2Plato) 00:00 Welcome to the Silk Road Seminar 01:44 Matt Segall and Andrew Davis introduce themselves 05:00 Seeing God Again for the First Time 11:09 The Philosophical Silk Road as pilgrimage 15:50 Cobb, Whitehead, and Buddhist-Christian dialogue 17:59 Process perennialism 24:19 Primordiality, ultimacy, and Zen Neoplatonism 27:53 The consequent nature of God 39:45 God is not an individualized substance 51:16 Hartshorne and dipolar theism 01:00:44 Rethinking omniscience and omnipotence 01:08:27 Anatheism: returning to God after God 01:12:06 The sacred obligation to pilgrimage 01:18:50 Propositional vs. dispositional faith 01:25:20 "It's more important that a proposition be interesting than that it be true." 01:31:42 Q&A: Fidelity to tradition and openness to others 01:42:36 How do we judge one framing of reality as deeper? 01:49:55 Collective individuation 02:02:31 Closing words The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon Thank you for listening!

Corey Anton, philosopher and author of How Nonbeing Haunts Being, explores spirituality without an afterlife and the strange ways absence shapes meaning. He and John Vervaeke discuss embodiment, grief, psychedelics, ego death, dignity in dying, AI’s threat to purpose, sacredness in ordinary life, and how to confront evil without surrendering hope.