Dr. John Vervaeke

Dive into an engaging exploration of the relationship between cognition and spirit, examining how voluntary necessity shapes our understanding of agency and faith. Discover the intricate dynamics of predictive processing, where imagination entwines with rationality. The discussion highlights the power of community in meaningful exchanges and how storytelling influences identity. By bridging modern theories and ancient wisdom, profound insights emerge about human existence and the interconnectedness of reason, love, and collective meaning.

How do we rebuild trust and meaning in a world where certainty and connection are breaking down?   In this episode of The Lectern, John welcomes Kieran McCammon and Jordan Hall to discuss the 'trust apocalypse' and its intersection with the meaning crisis. They delve into the vicious cycle between the loss of trust and the fragmentation of communities, exploring how these issues reverberate through society. Kieran introduces his work on the Trust Foundation, which aims to address these challenges by leveraging collective agency, distributed cognition, and extended distributed labor. John and Jordan bring their expertise to discuss the deeper topics related to trust, faith, and the sacred, and how these concepts tie into addressing contemporary societal issues. They also highlight how we are at a pivotal moment where new forms of technology and community organization could help counteract the prevailing distrust and meaning crisis.   Jordan Hall is a futurist, systems strategist, and cultural philosopher exploring the deep structures shaping human coordination, meaning-making, and collective intelligence. A former tech executive and early internet pioneer, Jordan now works at the intersection of theory and practice, developing frameworks for catalytic communities capable of responding to complex, civilizational-scale challenges. His work emphasizes the collapse of trust-based and certainty-driven systems, proposing instead a reorientation toward spirit-infused participation, sacred purpose, and voluntary necessity. A key contributor to the Trust Foundation, Jordan draws on cybernetics, epistemology, and meta-theory to guide the emergence of post-bureaucratic forms of social coherence and institutional renewal.   Keiron McCammon is a technology entrepreneur and systems thinker whose work addresses the intersection of social trust, digital infrastructure, and collective agency. A veteran of Silicon Valley’s early Web 2.0 era, he helped build the foundations of the social internet before turning his focus to the unintended consequences of digital connectivity. As co-founder of the Trust Foundation, Keiron investigates the societal breakdown he terms the "trust apocalypse," analyzing how technological design, institutional failure, and civic fragmentation have eroded our collective sense of meaning and belonging. Drawing on frameworks from network theory, systems thinking, and military innovation, his work catalyzes action-oriented communities aimed at rebuilding trust across personal, institutional, and technological domains.   The Trust Foundation Sunday Labs The Philosophical Silk Road Project   (00:00) – Introduction and excitement for the conversation (00:30) – Introducing Kieran McCammon and the trust apocalypse (01:30) – Exploring the trust apocalypse and its implications (04:00) – Kieran's background and the evolution of trust issues (05:00) – The role of technology and the breakdown of trust (06:30) – The Trust Foundation and catalytic communities (11:00) – The deep connection between trust and meaning (18:00) – Historical context and the collapse of certainty (28:00) – The need for a shared sacred canopy (30:50) – “A catalytic community can’t exist without a calling—a sacred purpose that’s bigger than any one of us.” (39:00) – Challenges of technology and cross-cultural pluralism (47:30) – Exploring voluntary necessity (49:00) – Certainty vs. trust (50:30) – The breakdown of societal trust (52:00) – The role of technology in trust erosion (54:00) – The attention economy and trustworthy AI (01:02:00) – The concept of abundance vs. scarcity (01:10:00) – Cultivating wisdom and trust (01:23:00) – The spiritual war and meaning crisis (01:27:00) – Call to action: building catalytic communities       —   The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.    Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.    —   Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode   Philosophical Silk Road Trust Apocalypse Meaning Crisis Collective agency Epistemology of trust Deep knowing by participation Certainty vs. trust Relevance realization Reflective equilibrium (between theory and practice Chris Lich Robert Putnam Clement of Alexandria Bishop Maximus Jonathan Pageau David Hume (implied via discussion on skepticism) G.W Leibniz and René Descartes (mentioned re: Enlightenment certainty) Team of Teams by Gen. Stanley McChrystal Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam The Upswing by Robert Putnam Tim Berners-Lee’s open letter on the internet Aspen Institute report on Information Disorder   Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon

Bishop Maximus, a prominent Orthodox bishop and scholar, bridges ancient Christian thought with modern philosophical inquiry. He discusses the integration of faith and reason through figures like Clement of Alexandria, countering modern skepticism with a robust epistemological framework. The conversation explores the problem of induction, revealing faith as an active engagement that shapes knowledge and moral action. Additionally, they examine how Clement’s ideas resonate with contemporary issues in metaphysics and the transformative power of revelation in navigating complex realities.

Journey through the Philosophical Silk Road, where sacred insights bloom among historic places. Explore the transformative concept of theosis and the interplay between spirituality and personal agency. Dive into sacred pluralism, encouraging understanding across diverse faiths while nurturing one’s own beliefs. Engage with ideas about autonomy, community, and the sacred, proposing a new spirituality rooted in embodied experiences. Reflect on human limitations and potential transcendence through rich philosophical discussions that challenge contemporary nihilism.

Matthew Schaublin, a Master’s candidate in psychology focused on authenticity, joins Gregg Henriques, a psychologist and professor, to dive deep into the nature of authenticity. They explore how authenticity is shaped not just by our inner selves, but through meaningful relationships and communion with others. Their research reveals that genuine experiences often arise from emotional connections rather than solitary reflection. The conversation critiques traditional views of selfhood, advocating for a more dynamic understanding of agency intertwined with social influences.

James Filler, a philosopher and theologian known for his expertise in metaphysics and substance ontology, dives deep into the meaning crisis affecting contemporary thought. He explores the complex implications of substance ontology, critiques modern dualism, and champions a relational understanding of existence. Filler also discusses the themes of isolation and community in literature, offering insights on self-transcendence and divine connections. He critiques the decline of liturgical authority in Christianity, questioning the true accessibility of spiritual teachings.

Ethan Kobayashi-Hsieh, a close collaborator of Dr. John Vervaeke, embarks on a thought-provoking dialogue about the philosophical journey of pilgrimage. They explore how pilgrimage can lead to deeper self-understanding and transform one’s perception of reality. The discussion delves into concepts like theoria, theosis, and the importance of community in this spiritual journey. They also touch on the challenges of introversion and anxiety, emphasizing the value of fellowship and personal growth as they navigate this transformative experience.

Sebastian Morello, a lecturer and public speaker trained in philosophy, delves into the intersections of mysticism, tradition, and modernity. He discusses the church's double crisis of meaning and authority, emphasizing the necessity of monastic practices in deepening spiritual engagement. Morello critiques modernity's impact on personhood and relationality, advocating for a holistic understanding of privacy in the digital age. Their conversation also explores the pivotal roles of ritual and liturgy, highlighting the significance of genuine spiritual practices amid contemporary challenges.

Can AI ever achieve true wisdom? The discussion dives into the profound differences between intelligence and wisdom, revealing the limitations of language models. It examines the essence of human cognition, emphasizing embodiment, caring, and participatory knowing. Concepts like relevance realization and the four kinds of knowing highlight why AI struggles with consciousness and understanding. The talk ultimately stresses that for machines to become wise, humanity must first cultivate its own wisdom.

Britt Hartley, a certified spiritual director and expert in secular spirituality, shares her insights on navigating faith and nihilism from her unique perspective as a former Mormon. The discussion delves into the challenges of deconstructing beliefs while emphasizing the importance of community and personal meaning. Hartley highlights the transformative journey from nihilism to spirituality, advocating for playfulness and curiosity in spiritual practices. The conversation also addresses the complexities of gender in spirituality and the need for inclusive approaches tailored to individual experiences.