Fringe Legal

Kim Lewis is the Legal Transformation Manager at Gilbert + Tobin.  At the end of the day, it all comes down to clients. That's what we're doing. It's delivering a service to clients so how we deliver that service. What happens to all legal advice once we give it to the client is a really interesting point.  Kim is a UK qualified lawyer and consultant in the Legal Service Innovation team at G+T. She designs solutions for lawyers, working closely with deal teams to project manage and streamline large-scale projects, creating efficiencies and quality outputs for clients.Kim specialises in implementing artificial intelligence tools and has experience in legal technology design and roll-out and change management. She also advises and trains lawyers to use the full spectrum of efficiency tools available at Gilbert + Tobin.Kim brings a range of practical legal experience to her role, having worked in the UK as an M+A lawyer at a large Magic Circle firm and in-house. Show notes The initial idea for this episode was simple - I wanted to speak to Kim about how she explains complex technical topics to non-technical audiences (such as lawyers).But like with all great things, it evolved quickly. Ultimately, we speak about:legal transformation - the state of play today, and speculating what might change in the future;The client journey, specifically we discuss what should be considered during the delivery of legal work; and,Kim explains the concept of machine learning and computer modeling using art as an analogy SUBSCRIBE AND REVIEW:  iTunes // Spotify // Pocket Casts // Stitcher   The factors that go into your experience of it, but I think it's heavily influenced by expectation. I think one of the real difficulties that are being faced in-house by our clients is that they sometimes actually don't know what to expect and we may not communicate that, or maybe they're going to a fancy restaurant just because they want to be seen there.You know, maybe they're not going for the food at a good restaurant - a good service personnel will recognize that and then tailor the experience for them. You're also not going to love going back to a restaurant if it cost you an arm and a leg and you weren't satisfied with that experience. So the expectation and the price has a huge impact on the type of service that we should be looking to deliver as a waiter or as a lawyer... If you don't adapt, then you don't survive. Equally, you don't want to go off on a limb either, and I think that's what's quite difficult for law firms. Where do you draw that line?Where is the right amount of change within the organization at a certain point in time? I think it's a very difficult one to judge, but I know that sitting down and doing nothing is not really an option.   Please subscribe, and if you enjoyed the episode help me by leaving a review. If you have questions, comments, or feedback then please tweet to me @WhoIsAbS with #FringeLegal or email me on ab@fringelegal.com 

Isabella Galeano is the founder of The Technolawgist. She is head of legal at Abertis Mobility Services, legal tech and legal innovation consultant and Director of the Legal Tech Programme at Esade Law School.  Her mission is to contribute to the transformation of the legal industry and to inspire lawyers around the world.I mean, changing is always scary. Changing is always difficult, but the cost of not changing, that's scarier to me at this point.Show notesIsabella has a great breadth of knowledge, and we explore a number of topics in our chat today. How Isabella path was driven by wanting to do things differentlyHow shifting your perspective can spark the start of an innovation journey - in Isabella’s case being seconded to the client’s business opened her eyes to how to communicate in a way that empowers her clients to make the best business decisionHow in-house lawyers are the cornerstone of transformation in the legal industry, pushing forward change in so many waysHow markets such as LATAM are embracing technology to solve business problemsWhat is top of mind for students, clients, and practitioners when it comes to looking at technology and innovation?SUBSCRIBE AND REVIEW:  iTunes // Spotify // Pocket Casts // Stitcher The challenges we're facing as lawyers. It doesn't matter if you're in the US, Mexico, Singapore, all over the place lawyers are facing the same kinds of challenges: how do we make our practice more efficient? How do we reach our clients? How do we make access to justice better? How do we serve clients that are not being served right now? And what is very interesting to me is that more and more lawyers are realizing that there's these global challenged that we're facing and for the first time they're creating, and we're creating solutions that can be applied across the board.So in that sense, I see a lot of international movement towards solving these global issues. And that's super interesting. And I think it's kind of like the first time it's happening in the legal industry as opposed to any other industries where the incorporation of feedback and technologies and business impact from other parts of the world had been there for a longer time.Please subscribe, and if you enjoyed the episode help me by leaving a review. If you have questions, comments, or feedback then please tweet to me @WhoIsAbS with #FringeLegal or email me on ab@fringelegal.com 

In recent years, there has been an increase in the number of no-code application development platforms being available. Specifically, there has been an uptick in the adoption of these platforms within the legal profession.In this episode, we speak with Jackson Liu on Neota Logic to get a primer on no-code application development. A trend that we're seeing with professional service firms and law firms is that they would build a solution or a product for a particular client and then realize we can actually market this product or this application more broadly. Through the no-code platform, they're able to customize it very, very quickly for other clients. SUBSCRIBE AND REVIEW:  iTunes // Spotify // Pocket Casts // Stitcher Amongst other items, we cover:What is a no-code platformHow these products can be used for rapid prototyping/developmentCreate MVP quickly, so it can be made available to early adopters; allow for iterative development through user feedbackHow no-code platforms are being used by firms; three use case we explore are:Internal efficiency purposes to address the ‘more for less’ challengeDevelop revenue-generating solutions To win client RFPs: using the rapid prototype process to respond to RFPs with an actually built applicationHow Neota, using the right adoption resources & strategies, gets lawyers to become no-code “architects” A2J: how do you prepare students (lawyers of tomorrow) through partnerships with universities/colleges/law schoolsPlease subscribe, and if you enjoyed the episode help me by leaving a review.If you have questions, comments, or feedback then please tweet to me @WhoIsAbS with #FringeLegal or email me on ab@fringelegal.com 

On the show today, we have Stewart Rasmussen. Stew is a friend, a technologist, and someone who is extremely knowledgeable about the Australian market, especially the legal segment.He's previously worked for the likes of Phoenix Business Solutions in the UK and APAC, served as the Head of Client Services APAC for HighQ, and most recently was the Director of Legal Technology for KPMG Australia. Stew was at KPMG when we recorded this conversation in 2019 - all views are his own and not those of his employers. Just a quick note to say that Stew recorded this during a particularly busy afternoon so the audio is a little unclear at times. Please bear with it. SUBSCRIBE AND REVIEW:  iTunes // Spotify // Pocket Casts // Stitcher The new breed of technology companies gets it. They know they need to integrate, and not create those silos - it's quite refreshing to see.I think technologists are doing the best they can to develop products. Otherwise, they're going to just end up in an endless cycle of development and they end up with a product that caters to everybody and nobody at the same time... Whereas, law firms need to become better at saying: is there a standardized approach? Is my bespoke process actually competitive, agile, can we start to adopt the standard by doing it this way now?We pack quite a lot in a small amount of time. Some highlights include: the changing landscape of the Australian Legal Tech Market - bearing in mind it's distant proximity to other large marketshow different cultures sometimes produce different use casesfirst-mover advantages, or lack thereof, in the legal professionthe upcoming wave of consolidation, especially within the productized segment of legalextendibility of software via APIs and vendor partnershipsPlease subscribe, and if you enjoyed the episode help me by leaving a review.If you have questions, comments, or feedback then please tweet to me @WhoIsAbS with #FringeLegal or email me on ab@fringelegal.com 

Allison Hosking is the Head of Knowledge Management at Al Tamimi & Co where she oversees a team responsible for all aspects of the firm’s knowledge management strategy across their 17 offices. Prior to joining Al Tamimi, Allison worked for over a decade for a magic circle law firm as a senior knowledge and learning manager working in their London, New York and Dubai offices. She is a qualified lawyer and has worked and practised in several jurisdictions including Chile, the USA and India. Allison has a university teaching qualification, is a Fellow of the Higher Education Academy and spent four years teaching at Nottingham Law School on their postgraduate law courses.SUBSCRIBE AND REVIEW:  iTunes // Spotify // Pocket Casts // Stitcher For change management, you need to take people along with you; making sure that as the KM function you are positioning yourself to be the facilitators of practice innovation and enabling people to understand what tools or legal tech is out there for the so that you can be ahead, and be able there to support them.Just some of the items we cover in the episode:Working through the question - what is knowledge management? A way of helping organizations leverage the knowledge that the institution has, in a planned & structured manner, to achieve business benefits.Knowledge Management as way of working through the past, present and futureDifference between explicit and tacit knowledgeUsing trust as a vehicle to allow easier sharing of tacit knowledge  Building a culture of knowledge sharing in a time of extreme change change How KM should is relevant, just in time and emergentDifference between setting up a KM function is a young market vs. improvements made to an existing function in an established marketWhat kinds are requests are lawyers/users going to KM with?Law is an industry that thrives on knowledge sharing and relationships, and you layer on tech, and that to me is a win-win. A great position to be in. Please subscribe, and if you enjoyed the episode help me by leaving a review.If you have questions, comments, or feedback then please tweet to me @WhoIsAbS with #FringeLegal or email me on ab@fringelegal.com 

Nina Gratrick is the Head of IT Services at the global law firm of Watson Farley & Williams.Nina Gratrick An experienced Service Delivery Manager with a demonstrated history of working in the legal industry at a global level. She's a skilled resource manager capable of crossing the divide between technology and people; facilitating engagement at all levels. A coach, a mentor, an agent for change within organisations, supporting people, process and technology transformation to reshape the vision of IT services and support.We talk about how the evolution of IT service delivery, and how by being customer centric, it's possible to push the boundries of change at your firm.SUBSCRIBE AND REVIEW:  iTunes // Spotify // Pocket Casts // Stitcher Put the customer in the middle of what you're doing, designing, implementing. And go, am I helping or my hindering? Am I gonna make it better? Am I gonna make it worse? And sometimes we make it worse in the short term in order to make it better in the long term. Some takeaways from the episode include:Nina's role as a customer advocate within the IT department The real investment doesn't always come in the short term, it comes at a cultural shift levelThe difference in the learning curve between when Nina first got her start in the legal profession vs. now; one of the main difference is the increase of integration between different systemsHow do you think about measuring the value of success to the business. Can you provide solutions that show value to 80% of the business quickly, and then cater for the more nuanced use cases from there?On being flexible: do you want to be a tanker in the ocean, where you've decided on your direction, on your journey, and that's the way you're going. In order to move/change it requires a lot of work; Or, do you want to be a fleet, where you can move as a large unit really quickly, but you can also change direction just as quickly.There shouldn't be more complexity at work, compared to how things work within people's person livesWe're constantly fixing the same thing - there needs to be a transformation, where we get people to think about technology in a different wayHow do you cross-sell your products/services as the law firm, leveraging the brand and dataAs a tech vendor or a firm-based incubator it gives you access to a wide spectrum of use casesThe importance of change management within firm, and how customer success teams provided by tech vendors help drive this cultural shift at the firmFail fast, fail smart. Push the boundaries of change. Please subscribe, and if you enjoyed the episode help me by leaving a review.If you have questions, comments, or feedback then please tweet to me @WhoIsAbS with #FringeLegal or email me on ab@fringelegal.com 

Laura Collins Scott is the Innovation Lead for Clifford Chance in Singapore. In this episode we talk about Laura experience on leading the Create+65 Innovation Lab in Singapore. Laura Collins Scott began working with Clifford Chance in 2017 when she was initially engaged to define the strategy and business plan for Clifford Chance Applied Solutions.Laura founded BB Consulting in 2016 to help incumbent companies and start-ups design and build innovative products for their customers.   SUBSCRIBE AND REVIEW:  iTunes // Spotify // Pocket Casts // Stitcher The three take away from the episode:Laura’s meandering journey to her role today. From training as a lawyer to starting her own consultancy and finally landing at Clifford Chance. Why the Create+65 program was created - how it was influenced by clients, internal stakeholders, and keeping in mind the competitive landscape.Approaching the first anniversary of running the lab, what did Laura and her team have learned that can benefit other firms and individuals. Please subscribe, and if you enjoyed the episode help me by leaving a review.If you have questions, comments, or feedback then please tweet to me @WhoIsAbS with #FringeLegal or email me on ab@fringelegal.com 

On this episode we have Peter Buck, VP, Product Strategy at NetDocuments. The core of the conversation focuses on tackling multi-teaming - the effects of having multiple people working on multiple projects simultaneously. We pivot then to focus on productivity, discussing how it can be measured and the impact of constant context switching, discussing against the background that it takes one around 25 minutes to reach full productivity, but people are interrupted every 3 minutes!Art (culture and perception) and science (data and engineering supporting the argument) of product designMulti-teaming: people working on multiple projects simultaneously, which has many benefits as well as many risks. How does this affects knowledge professionalsWho’s feeling the pain from constant context switchingMulti-teaming is more prominent with seniorityHow to structure teams to minimize destructive conflictMeasuring productivity = output as a function of input Jamie Teevan’s research looking into micro-productivity as a way to leverage micro-moments throughout one’s dayIt takes almost 25 mins to reach full productivity, but you’re interrupted every 3 minutesTwitter: @backofthenapkin LinkedIn: Peter Buck Reading list Article: https://hbr.org/2017/09/the-overcommitted-organizationResource: Dr. Jamie Teevan information and publicationResource: Marc Weiser vision for ubiquitous computingBook: Smart Collaboration: How Professionals and Their Firms Succeed by Breaking Down Silos

Welcome to the 2nd season of the Fringe Legal podcast. In the first episode we speak with the Maya Markovich, Head of Product at Dentons Nextlaw Labs. The core theme of the episode is all around innovation;  we cover three broad categories:The 3 different pillars of NextLaw labs, and how innovation can take the robot out of the lawyerHow do you catalyze innovation? What that means, and the importance of becoming the connective tissue across the firm/businessImpact of legal tech on access to justice Thanks to Maya for taking the time, and also to Isabella Galeno (who’s featured later in the season) for introducing me to Maya. ---------About MayaHead of product for Nextlaw Labs, Maya Markovich is an innovation leader with roots in change management, behavioral science, law, VC and tech. She delivers next-generation technology, process, and business growth services for Dentons, the world’s largest law firm, and its clients, including acceleration of the legal tech startups in the Nextlaw Ventures portfolio. Her background enables her to encourage, design and implement the future of the legal profession around the globe. Maya also serves on the boards of Legal Access Alameda, LexLab, OneJustice, and The Technolawgist, and as mentor for LegalGeek’s Women in LawTech and the University of Arizona TechLaw Fellows program, supporting legal tech initiatives to improve access to justice, gender equity and the future of legal education.  She speaks and writes frequently on legal tech and innovation/design, and is deeply committed to leveraging tech for good, especially to increase diversity and access to justice. Find her on LinkedIn and Twitter @MarkovichMaya.

A sneak peak into Season 2 of the Fringe Legal podcast. Episode one of the second season comes out of November 7, 2019. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to be notified of new episodes.