
Reversing Climate Change
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Reversing Climate Change is a podcast that bridges science, technology, and policy with the richness of the humanities. From the forefront of carbon removal and climatetech to explorations of literature, history, philosophy, and geopolitics, we dive deep into the people, ideas, and innovations shaping a better future for the planet and its inhabitants.
Latest episodes

Feb 9, 2021 • 1h 1min
S2E50: Under a White Sky: Elizabeth Kolbert's new book on humanity's ecological & climate interventions
There is a new pattern emerging in humanity’s long, complicated relationship with nature. Namely, we’re at a point where the problems we’ve caused by intervening in our environment require interventions of their own. But in a world where we can’t fully anticipate the impact of our actions, should we be optimistic about using new technology to solve crises created by the old?
Elizabeth Kolbert is a staff writer at The New Yorker and the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of The Sixth Extinction. Her latest book is called Under a White Sky: The Nature of the Future. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Elizabeth joins Ross and Christophe to explain how a reporting trip to see a super coral project inspired Under a White Sky and describe how the book is structured on a continuum—from small, regional interventions to more controversial, global strategies for solving the problems we’ve caused.
Elizabeth walks us through several of the interventions introduced in the book, including an electrified river in Chicago, efforts to gene edit toxic cane toads, and a promising coral sex engineering project. Listen in for Elizabeth’s insight on the ethical concerns associated with interventions like CRISPR technology and solar radiation management and learn how she thinks about doubling down on our efforts to control the natural world.
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Resources
Elizabeth’s Website
Elizabeth at The New Yorker
Under a White Sky: The Nature of the Future by Elizabeth Kolbert
The Sixth Extinction: An Unnatural History by Elizabeth Kolbert
Field Notes from a Catastrophe: Man, Nature, and Climate Change by Elizabeth Kolbert
Josiah Zayner
Dr. Mark Tizard
Dr. Klaus Lackner at the Center for Negative Carbon Emissions
The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson
The Leopard by Giuseppe di Lampedusa
Steward Brand
Paul Kingsnorth
David Remnick and Harry Finder on Reversing Climate Change S2EP37

Feb 5, 2021 • 21min
Grist's intersectional climate fiction contest—w/ Tory Stephens of Fix, the Grist solutions lab
Making art about climate is useful in that it reaches a part of the brain that science does not. And climate fiction as a genre gives us a way to get the climate conversation started. Better yet, cli-fi that focuses on solutions might actually help us find a way forward.
Tory Stephens is the New England Network Weaver at Fix, the Grist Solutions Lab. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Tory joins Ross and cohost Jess Miles to discuss the launch of his team’s new climate fiction contest, Imagine 2200: Climate Fiction for Future Ancestors and explain what differentiates his team’s writing contest from others of its kind.
Tory offers insight around climate fiction and the subgenres of solarpunk and hopepunk, challenging writers to create intersectional, solutions-focused work. Listen in for an overview of Imagine 2200’s submission guidelines and learn how fiction might offer a pathway out of the climate crisis.
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Resources
Imagine 2200: Climate Fiction for Future Ancestors
‘We’re Launching a Fiction Contest’ on Grist
Fix Solutions Lab
The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory by Brian Greene
The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson
The Road by Cormac McCarthy
‘Hopepunk, the Latest Storytelling Trend, Is All About Weaponized Optimism’ in Vox
Nnedi Okorafor
Who Fears Death by Nnedi Okorafor
Black Panther
A Conspiracy of Stars by Olivia A. Cole
Jess Miles on Reversing Climate Change S2EP12

Feb 2, 2021 • 47min
S2E49: At the feet of a modern hermit—w/ Markus Torgeby, author of Under the Open Skies
In modern society, we’re conditioned to believe that acquiring more stuff makes our lives better. But what if getting back to basics leads to a richer life? What if consuming less and connecting with nature more opens us up to what really matters?
Markus Torgeby is the author of Under the Open Skies: Finding Peace and Health in Nature. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Markus joins Ross to explain how he came to live alone in the forest of Northern Sweden and describe how stripping life down to the basic needs helped him identify what was truly important and heal from trauma.
Markus shares his take on technology, discussing how to gauge how much screen time is right for you (and help your kids do the same). Listen in for insight on living a richer life by consuming less and get Markus’ advice on taking small steps to build your own deep relationship with nature.
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Resources
Under the Open Skies: Finding Peace and Health in Nature by Markus Torgeby and Frida Torgeby
Desert Fathers
Soren Kierkegaard
Ingmar Bergman
Wendell Berry
Dialogues of Plato by Plato
Peter Kalmus
Walden by Henry David Thoreau
Into the Wild by Jon Krakauer

Feb 1, 2021 • 49min
Climate fintech, neobanks, & banking for good—w/ Ravi Mikkelsen, cofounder of ATMOS
Did you know that Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo and Citi are among the biggest funders of fossil fuel projects in the world? Would you rather leverage your money to fight climate change? What if you could move your money to an entity that builds its lending portfolio around things like clean energy, regenerative agriculture, and direct air capture?
Ravi Mikkelsen is the Cofounder of ATMOS Financial, a digital banking solution dedicated to funding a rapid transition to the clean economy. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Ravi joins Ross to discuss the growing cohort of impact companies at the intersection of climate and FinTech and explain how neobanks like ATMOS fit into the ecosystem.
Ravi shares the market research around why consumers choose a bank, challenging us to consider what kinds of projects our financial institution funds and how big banks might transition their lending portfolios away from fossil fuels. Listen in for insight around the benefits of banking with ATMOS and find out why you don’t have to sacrifice user experience or pay more to do the right thing. George Bailey for the win!
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Resources
ATMOS Financial
ATMOS on Twitter
ATMOS on Facebook
ATMOS on Instagram
ATMOS on LinkedIn
Email ravi@joinatmos.com
ATMOS Nonprofit Partners
Arcadia Power
It’s a Wonderful Life
Prisoner’s Dilemma

Jan 26, 2021 • 1h 2min
S2E48: Damn the Absolute! On pragmatism and climate change—w/ Jeffrey Howard, Editor-in-Chief of Erraticus
The climate conversation is riddled with ideological battles. There are those who think climate change is the most pressing issue of our time pitted against those who don’t think it’s a big deal (if it’s even real). There are fights over ecological versus industrial forms of carbon removal. And there are those who believe that climate change can be reversed, while others have little hope that humanity will stick the landing. So, how do we move past these absolutist views and inspire action to solve the problem?
Jeffrey Howard is the Editor-in-Chief at Erraticus and the host of the Damn the Absolute! podcast. Both platforms take a pragmatic approach to ideas, challenging dogma, fundamentalism and ideological hubris. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Jeffrey joins Ross to introduce the principles of pragmatism as a discrete philosophical school of thought, describing the intellectual context from which it emerged and how the philosophy seeks to reconcile the competing camps of Rationalism and Empiricism.
Jeffrey explores how a pragmatic approach might break logjams in the climate conversation, explaining how pragmatists balance building an inclusive community of inquirers with taking action to solve problems in the real world. Listen in to understand how a pragmatist thinks about a climate solution like carbon capture and learn how pragmatism addresses our lived challenges, encouraging us to hold our views with humility as we work to improve life for all people.
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Too many things referenced for this episode! Will fix this in the future. In the meantime, here is a truncated portion:
Erraticus
Damn the Absolute! Podcast
Jeffrey Howard on Reversing Climate Change EP107
Sick Souls, Healthy Minds: How William James Can Save Your Life by John Kaag
Pragmatism: A New Name for Some Old Ways of Thinking by William James
William James
Subsistence Agriculture in the US: Reconnecting to Work, Nature and Community by Ashley Colby
On Richard Rorty on Damn the Absolute! EP001
Toward a Politics of Uncertainty on Damn the Absolute! EP002
David O’Hara on Damn the Absolute! EP007

Jan 19, 2021 • 57min
S2E47: Being a "witness" to climate change—w/ Dr. Evan Kuehn of North Park University
What does it mean to be a witnessing professional in the climate crisis?
What responsibility do scientists, doctors, journalists, lawyers, military officers and public health officials have to speak out and share their message of truth with the world? How does the religious concept of bearing witness translate to this secular context? And what can you and I do to become constructive witnesses for climate change?
Dr. Evan Kuehn is an Assistant Professor of Informational Literacy at North Park University and the author of Troeltsch’s Eschatological Absolute and Theology Compromised: Schleiermacher, Troeltsch, and the Possibility of a Sociological Theology. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Dr. Kuehn joins Ross to discuss the recent Dædalus issue on Witnessing Climate Change, describing what it means to be a witness, how the concept shifts from a sacred to a secular context, and what risks are associated with witnessing in public as a professional.
Dr. Kuehn explores Robert Socolow’s idea of witnessing for the middle to depolarize the climate conversation, explaining what it looks like to engage in situational ethics and sharing how he deals with extreme views and guillotine memes. Listen in for Dr. Kuehn’s insight around the Jewish tradition of preserving social criticism and learn what you can do to be a middle builder and serve as a constructive witness for climate change.
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There are so many things referenced in this episode and not much space to add them all here unfortunately. If Anchor ups their character cap we will add them all back in.
N.B. Ross couldn't remember at the time of recording which scholar provided that insight about Jewish scripture preserving social criticism in this episode, but is pretty sure it came from Amy-Jill Levine, and most likely her Great Courses lecture series on the Old Testament.
Dr. Evan Kuehn on Reversing Climate Change Bonus Episode
We’re Doomed. Now What? Essays on War and Climate Change by Roy Scranton
What Is the Bible? How an Ancient Library of Poems, Letters, and Stories Can Transform the Way You Think and Feel About Everything by Rob Bell
Proverbs 26:4-5
‘What is the Social Responsibility of Climate Scientists?’ by Naomi Oreskes
‘Witnessing for the Middle to Depolarize the Climate Change Conversation’ by Robert H. Socolow

Jan 12, 2021 • 1h 6min
S2E46: Ecosystem restoration on a planetary scale—w/ John D. Liu, scientist & filmmaker
How do you restore an entire ecosystem at scale? Eroded desertified landscapes: can they be healed?
Journalist, filmmaker, and environmental educator John D. Liu is the Ecosystem Ambassador for the Commonland Foundation and Founder of the Ecosystem Restoration Camps Movement. He is best-known for his documentaries on the restoration of the Loess Plateau, like Hope in a Changing Climate and Green Gold. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, John joins Ross to explain how human activity caused the degradation of the Loess Plateau, describing how it went from being one of the most beautiful places on Earth to a barren landscape where the poorest Chinese people lived.
John discusses what made the Loess Plateau restoration so successful, offering insight around how the Chinese government engaged the people there and how the project design balances functional space for agriculture with land dedicated to natural regeneration. Listen in to understand how John thinks about restoring inherently complex ecosystems and learn how you can get involved in John’s work to transform our economy and facilitate ecosystem restoration all over the world.
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Resources:
The Weather Makers
‘The Holy Grail of Restoration: Mending the Sinai Peninsula’ in Kosmos Journal
John’s Academia Page
John on Twitter
The Great Work of Our Time Documentary on Large-Scale Ecosystem Restoration
World Bank Story on the Loess Plateau Restoration
Presencing Institute
Theory U
International Union for the Conservation of Nature
Rothamsted Research Institute
University of the West of England
Netherlands Institute of Ecology
Elinor Ostrom
Kyoto Protocol
Kate Raworth
Paul Kingsnorth
Wendell Berry
Willem Ferwerda
John F. Nash

Jan 5, 2021 • 41min
S2E45: Synthetic biology & the holy grail of ag—w/ Mike Miille, CEO of Joyn Bio
Much of agriculture depends upon synthetic fertilizer. But the production of that fertilizer is responsible for 3% of greenhouse gas emissions. That’s why innovators in the emerging field of synthetic biology are attempting to disrupt the status quo in agriculture and engineer new ways for growers to achieve the same yields with less fertilizer—and less environmental impact.
Mike Miille is the CEO of Joyn Bio, a biotech company that is using synthetic biology to try to make agriculture more sustainable. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Mike joins Ross and Rebekah to explain how his team is engineering microbes to address unmet needs in agriculture and what differentiates synthetic biology from classical breeding or GMOs.
Mike introduces us to Joyn Bio’s work in designing nitrogen-fixing corn (the potential holy grail), responding to the argument that our system of monoculture isn’t worth saving and the concerns around scaling innovations in synthetic biology. Listen in to understand how Mike thinks about the unknowns of designing new organisms and learn about the other potentially game-changing advancements in ag that Mike’s team is working on right now.
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Resources:
Joyn Bio
Joyn Bio on LinkedIn
Joyn Bio on Twitter
Leaps by Bayer
Ginkgo Bioworks
Thomas Knight at MIT
Carl Sagan’s Cosmos
The Haber-Bosch Process
Norman Borlaug

Dec 22, 2020 • 57min
S2E44: Can permaculture scale?—w/ Mark Shepard, author of Restoration Agriculture
We have destroyed or severely disrupted many of the perennial ecosystems that were here in favor of annual crops. Crops that require the use of herbicide and mulch year after year until, eventually, the soil is depleted and we move on. So, how can we use the design principles of permaculture to restore the ecology of the planet, provide ourselves with all the food, fuels and fibers we need, and make money while we’re at it? And at scale no less!
Agroforestry farmer and permaculturist Mark Shepard is the CEO of Forest Agriculture Enterprises, Founder of Restoration Agriculture Development, and award-winning author of Restoration Agriculture: Real-World Permaculture for Farmers. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Mark joins Ross and Christophe to share his understanding of permaculture, explaining how he applies its principles in a way that allows for scale and designs practical systems around the individual farmer’s machinery.
Mark introduces us to his idea of STUN agriculture (Strategic Total Utter Neglect), describing how nature solves every problem farmers have—at no cost and with very little effort. Listen in for insight on where science falls short in supporting the transition to restoration agriculture and learn how we can leverage permaculture to build economies around ecologically-designed systems.
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Resources
Restoration Agriculture: Real-World Permaculture for Farmers by Mark Shepard
Water for Any Farm by Mark Shepard
New Forest Farm
Forest Agriculture Enterprises
Restoration and Agriculture Development
Mark on Acres USA
Bill Mollison
David Holmgren
Tree Crops: A Permanent Agriculture by J. Russell Smith
The One-Straw Revolution: An Introduction to Natural Farming by Masanobu Fukuoka
Pawpaw: In Search of America’s Forgotten Fruit by Andrew Moore

Dec 15, 2020 • 46min
S2E43: Salmon, the Earth, & their common fate—w/ Mark Kurlansky, author
There are only 1.5M Atlantic salmon left in the world. And despite putting an end to commercial fishing, their numbers continue to dwindle. As a keystone species, the implications of their loss go far beyond not being able to order salmon for dinner. So, why are Atlantic salmon disappearing at such an alarming rate? What does their loss mean for other species? And how does it impact the rivers where they live?
Mark Kurlansky is a New York Times bestselling and James A. Beard award-winning author with a knack for seeing the broader implications of seemingly little things. He has written 33 books in all, including The Big Oyster: History on the Half Shell, Cod: A Biography of the Fish That Changed the World and most recently, Salmon: A Fish, the Earth, and the History of Their Common Fate. His forthcoming book, The Unreasonable Virtue of Fly Fishing is due out in March of 2021.
On this episode of the podcast, Mark joins Ross to share what inspired him to choose salmon as the topic of his most recent book and explain why climate change is catastrophic for the fish. He weighs in on the problems with salmon farming (be it inland or on the water) and discusses why hatcheries are not a viable way to enhance the salmon population. Listen in for Mark’s insight on how the disappearance of Atlantic salmon will impact other species and learn how to be a conscious consumer of the popular fish.
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Resources:
Mark Kurlansky’s Website
Salmon: A Fish, the Earth, and the History of Their Common Fate by Mark Kurlansky
Cod: A Biography of the Fish That Changed the World by Mark Kurlansky
Salt: A World History by Mark Kurlansky
Paper: Paging Through History by Mark Kurlansky
The Basque History of the World: The Story of a Nation by Mark Kurlansky
A River Runs Through It by Norman Maclean