

Reversing Climate Change
Carbon Removal Strategies LLC
Reversing Climate Change is a podcast that bridges science, technology, and policy with the richness of the humanities. From the forefront of carbon removal and climatetech to explorations of literature, history, philosophy, theology, and geopolitics, we dive deep into the people, ideas, and innovations shaping a better future for the planet and its inhabitants.
If you love the show, please become a paid subscriber on Spotify.
If you love the show, please become a paid subscriber on Spotify.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Feb 8, 2022 • 60min
S3E2: A Brief History of Ethereum and web3—w/ Laura Shin, author of The Cryptopians
As listeners of Nori podcasts, you might know that we use cryptocurrency in the form of Nori tokens which may become a market-driven price for carbon removal. You also might know we issue non-fungible tokens, otherwise known as NFTs, when buyers purchase those removals. But you may not know the history of the blockchain we run on or how the system works. So, where can you go to learn Ethereum 101?
Laura Shin is a crypto journalist and host of the Unchained Podcast. A former senior editor at Forbes, Laura was the first mainstream reporter to cover the blockchain full-time. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Laura joins Ross to discuss her new book, The Cryptopians: Idealism, Greed, Lies and the Making of the First Big Cryptocurrency Craze, a history of Ethereum and the ICO mania of 2017.
Laura explains why Ethereum quickly became the second most important cryptocurrency, describing how it was used to raise billions of dollars for decentralized apps and what happened when the DAO to fund slock.it was hacked. Listen in for Laura's insight around why the crypto bubble burst in early 2018, what trends have occurred since then, and why Laura believes that DAOs are the next big thing in crypto.
Key Takeaways
[1:00] How Laura’s book focuses on the story of the ICO craze
[2:02] What it’s like to write about recent history and why Laura was inspired to create a record of what happened in crypto in 2017 and 2018
[6:10] The rigorous fact-checking process Laura went through for The Cryptopians
[8:46] Why Ethereum quickly became the second most important cryptocurrency
[10:44] How the Ethereum blockchain serves as an open design space where developers can build decentralized applications
[18:03] Examples of the fastest and largest fundraising campaigns for apps through ICOs on Ethereum
[18:39] How the DAO to fund slock.it was hacked for $75M
[27:56] The ‘code is law’ debate that occurred in the aftermath of the DAO crisis
[30:00] The cultural differences between the Bitcoin and Ethereum chains
[31:08] What behaviors investors had to learn to participate in the ICO craze and why crypto founders were able to raise billions of dollars for their projects
[35:41] How ICOs compare to VC funding
[36:17] How the 2017 SEC report classifying DAO tokens as securities informed the burst of the crypto bubble in early 2018
[37:59] Why crypto prices dropped early in the pandemic and what’s happened since then
[42:48] Laura’s explanation of decentralized finance or DeFi and non-fungible tokens or NFTs
[52:16] How DAOs work to organize people in a democratic way
[55:02] Why Laura believes DAOs are the next big thing in crypto
Connect with Nori
Purchase Nori Carbon Removals
Nori's website
Nori on Twitter
Check out our other podcast, Carbon Removal Newsroom
Resources
The Cryptopians: Idealism, Greed, Lies and the Making of the First Big Cryptocurrency Craze by Laura Shin
Unchained Podcast
ConstitutionDAO
‘The Inside Story of Mt. Gox, Bitcoin’s $460M Disaster’ in WIRED

Feb 1, 2022 • 46min
S3E1: Aldyen Donnelly on climate-crypto, COP26, and carbon accounting rules
Prior to COP26, there was a big problem in international carbon accounting. Both the country where a carbon credit was generated and the country where it was sold could count those very same credits toward their Paris climate commitments. COP26 seeks to remedy this issue with the practice of double entry bookkeeping. But is it too late? What are the unintended consequences of implementing the new rules now?
Aldyen Donnelly is a cofounder, advisor, and former Director of Carbon Economics here at Nori. She also serves as a carbon markets advisor to several organizations, including Terramerra, Inc. and the Livestock Carbon Exchange. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Aldyen joins Ross and Nori CEO Paul Gambill to discuss how the new rules will lead to export controls for carbon credits and describe how such protectionism is likely to impact developing nations.
Aldyen and Paul share their concerns around blockchain crypto projects like KlimaDAO and weigh in on why carbon removals are preferable to carbon avoidance credits. Listen in to understand why throughput might matter more than permanence and learn how the upcoming Nori token launch aims create a true price discovery mechanism for carbon that others can use.
Key Takeaways
[1:26] How COP26 adopted new rules to implement double entry bookkeeping
[4:33] How a failure to implement double entry bookkeeping in prior carbon markets led to the price crash of 2012
[8:00] Why double entry bookkeeping was blocked until now
[12:33] Paul and Aldyen’s fear that the new rules will lead to export controls around carbon credits
[17:58] How export controls will negatively impact the carbon removal industry in developing nations
[20:19] The 3-year window COP26 allows for the creation of an international carbon market oversight body (and the opportunity that gives us at Nori)
[22:29] How crypto projects like KlimaDAO perpetuate a system where carbon credits are resold more than once and the underlying value isn’t actually one tonne
[26:10] The loophole in COP26 allowing the backlog of carbon credits to be sold without double entry bookkeeping
[28:05] What differentiates carbon avoidance credits from carbon removal credits (and why large corporations don’t necessarily care)
[33:07] How Nori’s take on the fundamental constraint of carbon markets differs from that of KlimaDAO
[35:30] How Paul and Aldyen think about permanence and why It's more important to focus on throughput
[41:40] How the upcoming Nori token launch will create a price discovery mechanism for carbon
Connect with Ross
Purchase Nori Carbon Removals
Nori
Check out our other podcast, Carbon Removal Newsroom
Resources
Aldyen on Reversing Climate Change EP031
‘Cryptocurrency Traders Move into Carbon Markets’ in The Wall Street Journal
KlimaDAO
Toucan Protocol
Olympus
Careers at Nori

Oct 5, 2021 • 38min
Will Dessert Survive the Climate Crisis?—w/ Caroline Saunders of The Sustainable Baker
Climate change is already affecting our food systems. But have you ever considered how rising temperatures might impact access to the pastries you love? What if you could no longer enjoy a croissant with your coffee in the morning? Or indulge in a slice of cake on special occasions?
Caroline Saunders is the host of the Sustainable Baker podcast, coauthor of Craft Beef, former chief-of-staff at Grist and soon-to-be student in the pastry track at Le Cordon Bleu in Paris. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Caroline joins Ross to share her interest in developing sustainable recipes and explain how her career path reflects her passions for climate and dessert.
Caroline describes her concerns around climate change and the future of dessert, discussing what spices are at risk and how we can help grains adapt to rising temperatures. Listen in for Caroline’s insight on what it looks like to bake without dairy and find out how to make your favorite desserts more sustainably!
Connect with Nori
Purchase Nori Carbon Removals
Join Nori's book club on Patreon
Nori's website
Sign up for Nori's weekly newsletter, The Nori Wrap
Check out our other podcast, Carbon Removal Newsroom
Email podcast@nori.com
Resources
The Sustainable Baker
The Sustainable Baker on Instagram
Craft Beef: A Revolution of Small Farms and Big Flavors by Joe Heitzeberg, Ethan Lowry and Caroline Saunders
IPCC Reports
J. Kenji Lopez-Alt on Instagram
Books by Ruth Reichl
Le Cordon Bleu
Culinary Institute of America
Nancy Silverton on Chef’s Table
Paul Hollywood
The Great British Bake Off
The Land Institute
The Land Institute on Reversing Climate Change EP062
The Bread Lab
Fran Costigan
Lennox Hastie on Chef’s Table BBQ
Books by Anne Byrn

Aug 17, 2021 • 14min
The Road to COP26— w/ Brock Benefiel of The Climate Pod
The climate crisis will be on the world stage once again in November 2021, as the UN Climate Change Conference of the Parties known as COP26 convenes in Glasgow. The summit brings together 200-plus countries to tackle climate change, and it is billed as the most significant climate event since the Paris Agreement was adopted in 2015 at COP21.
So, how can you learn more about what’s happening at COP26 and why it’s important?
Brock Benefiel is the cohost of The Climate Pod, a podcast that covers the latest news on the climate crisis. On this bonus episode of Reversing Climate Change, Brock joins Ross to discuss the special focus of the show’s new series, Road to COP26, giving us a preview of the scientists, policymakers, and activists Brock and his brother Ty are highlighting in the weeks to come.
Brock offers insight into what we need to accomplish at COP26, describing what success looks like and why achieving it is such a monumental challenge. Listen in as Brock shares some of his favorite episodes of The Climate Pod to date and find out why it’s crucial to engage in meaningful conversations about the climate crisis.
This episode is part of a partnership with The Climate Pod.
Reach out to hello@nori.com if you or your podcast are interested in collaboration efforts that fuel climate action.
Connect with Nori
Purchase Nori Carbon Removals
Nori on Twitter
Nori on Medium
Nori on Patreon
Nori Newsletter
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts
Check out our other podcast, Carbon Removal Newsroom
Email podcast@nori.com
Resources
The Climate Pod
The Climate Pod on YouTube
COP26
The IPCC Sixth Assessment Report
The Paris Agreement
Greta Thunberg’s 2019 Speech to the UN
UK MP David Lammy on The Climate Pod
Dr. Ed Hawkins on The Climate Pod
David Wallace-Wells on The Climate Pod
Governor Jay Inslee on The Climate Pod
Bill Nye on The Climate Pod

Aug 10, 2021 • 31min
Solutions: The Climate Change Board Game—w/ Samuel Levac-Levey, Founder and Game Designer
Most efforts to educate the public around climate change are pretty dour and leave people feeling hopeless and helpless. But there are things an individual or small group can do to have a meaningful impact on the climate. And now, there’s a board game that teaches people about the most effective climate solutions and gives them the agency to take action.
Samuel Levac-Levey is the Founder and Game Designer behind Solutions, a collaborative board game designed to inspire hope and action on the climate crisis. On this bonus episode of Reversing Climate Change, Sam joins Ross and guest host Christi Taylor, Marketing Coordinator at Nori, to explain how the book Drawdown informed the creation of the game and describe how it serves as a starting point for real-world climate action.
Sam walks us through the mechanics of the game, discussing how it’s being tested both in schools and with a general audience. Listen in to understand how Solutions exposes players to job opportunities in the climate space and learn how you can support Sam’s project and play Solutions yourself by contributing to his Kickstarter campaign before it closes on August 17th.
Connect with Nori
Purchase Nori Carbon Removals
Join Nori’s book club on Patreon
Nori’s website
Sign up for Nori’s weekly Newsletter, The Nori Wrap
Check out our other podcast, Carbon Removal Newsroom
Resources
Solutions: The Game on Kickstarter
Solutions: The Game
Drawdown: The Most Comprehensive Plan Ever Proposed to Reverse Global Warming edited by Paul Hawken
Drawdown Conference
Henk Rogers
Sid Meier’s Civilization
Will Wright’s The Sims
Climate Science
Green Teacher
Work on Climate
Climate Designers
Moore’s Law
The 3.5% Rule

Aug 3, 2021 • 39min
S2E74: Sanitation and EJ concerns grow with climate change—w/ Catherine Coleman Flowers, MacArthur Genius
Do you take having a working sanitation system for granted?
What if you didn’t have access to a public wastewater treatment plant? What if you lived with sewage running back into your home? And what if your failing septic system made YOU a criminal?
MacArthur Fellow Catherine Coleman Flowers is the founder of The Center for Rural Enterprise and Environmental Justice (CREEJ) and author of Waste: One Woman’s Fight Against America’s Dirty Secret. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Catherine joins Ross to discuss the neglect of water and wastewater infrastructure in rural America, explaining why septic systems are failing and how that impacts public health.
Catherine offers insight on the disparities in access to sanitation for poor rural communities and people of color, describing how corrupt government officials and bad policy can contribute to the inequity. Listen in for Catherine’s advice on collaborating with people who don’t necessarily share your values and find out what CREEJ is doing to design a solution that will allow people to treat wastewater affordably—wherever they are.
Connect with Nori
Purchase Nori Carbon Removals
Join Nori’s book club on Patreon
Nori’s website
Sign up for Nori’s weekly Newsletter, The Nori Wrap
Check out our other podcast, Carbon Removal Newsroom
Resources
The Center for Rural Enterprise and Environmental Justice
Waste: One Woman’s Fight Against America’s Dirty Secret by Catherine Coleman Flowers
CREEJ & The Guardian’s Sanitation Self-Report Form
Catherine on Twitter
Catherine on Facebook
Catherine on Instagram
American Society of Civil Engineering Report Card for America’s Infrastructure
Lowndes Interpretive Center
President Biden’s Climate Task Force
White House Environmental Justice Advisory Council
Pamela Rush

Jul 27, 2021 • 34min
Freedom, Mayhem, and the Uncertain Future of Revel’s Mopeds—w/ Kate Knibbs, Senior Writer at WIRED
If you don’t have access to public transportation or you’re looking for a climate-friendly alternative to Uber, then you may have considered renting one of Revel’s electric mopeds. But do micromobility companies like this actually make money? And how should micromobility fit into the larger ecosystem of getting from point A to point B?
Kate Knibbs is a Senior Writer at WIRED and the author of ‘Freedom, Mayhem, and the Uncertain Future of Revel’s Mopeds.’ On this bonus episode of Reversing Climate Change, Kate joins Ross and guest host Radhika Moolgavkar, Head of Supply and Methodology at Nori, to discuss micromobility, describing how mopeds and e-bikes should be a complement to mass transit—not the dominant form of getting around.
She offers insight on the potential profitability of a company like Revel, explaining how positioning itself as an electric vehicle company increases its chances of success and why safety issues are its greatest existential threat. Listen in to understand the role of subsidies in making micromobility ventures work and learn how Kate thinks about when to choose public transit, train travel, auto ownership, rideshare, or micromobility options.
Connect with Nori
Purchase Nori Carbon Removals
Join Nori’s book club on Patreon
Nori’s website
Sign up for Nori’s weekly Newsletter, The Nori Wrap
Check out our other podcast, Carbon Removal Newsroom
Resources
Kate at WIRED
Kate on Twitter
Kate on Reversing Climate Change S2EP12
‘Freedom, Mayhem, and the Future of Revel’s Mopeds’ in WIRED
Revel
Lime Micromobility
The Drivers Cooperative
Books by Paul Theroux
‘Farewell, Millennial Lifestyle Subsidy’ in The New York Times

Jul 20, 2021 • 42min
S2E73: The challenges of being a chef/restauranteur in climate change—w/ Renee Erickson of Sea Creatures
Are you missing the experience of eating out at a restaurant? Or maybe you’re itching to travel and revisit the food traditions of the places you love? What if you could recreate these experiences at home, using simple recipes to embark on a culinary journey around the world?
Renee Erickson is the James Beard Award-winning chef behind several popular Seattle restaurants including The Walrus and the Carpenter, The Whale Wins, and Bateau. She is also the author of the critically-acclaimed cookbook A Boat, a Whale & a Walrus: Menus and Stories. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Renee joins Ross and Radhika to discuss her latest release, Getaway: Food and Drink to Transport You, sharing what inspired her to design a cookbook around her favorite places.
Renee weighs in on why eating locally and seasonally is not just better for the climate but better for us, explaining her decisions-making around what fish to buy for her restaurants and how to avoid wasting beef. Listen in for Renee’s insight on making good food more accessible and get her top recommendations on places to eat out in Seattle as the world reopens post-pandemic!
Connect with Nori
Purchase Nori Carbon Removals
Join Nori’s book club on Patreon
Nori’s website
Sign up for Nori’s weekly Newsletter, The Nori Wrap
Check out our other podcast, Carbon Removal Newsroom
Resources
Chef Renee Erickson
Getaway: Food & Drink to Transport You by Renee Erickson
A Boat, a Whale & a Walrus: Menus and Stories by Renee Erickson
Sea Creatures
The Walrus and the Carpenter
Bateau
Tulalip Reservation
Bristol Bay
Drifters Fish
Six Seasons: A New Way with Vegetables by Joshua McFadden
Green Plate Special
Musang
The Harvest Vine
Café Lago
Delancey
Local Tide
Gracia
Rachel’s Bagels
Saint Bread
Books by Dominique Crenn
Meesha
‘Three Seattle Chefs on the Challenges of Opening a Restaurant in 2020’ in Crosscut

Jul 13, 2021 • 46min
S2E72: NFTs, carbon removal, & the music biz—w/ Imogen Heap, Grammy-winning artist
Data in the music industry is incredibly fragmented. There is no one consistent place to go for information about a work. It’s hard to know where songs are being played or who was involved in creating a piece of music. And this means that a lot of artists don’t get royalties for their work.
What if blockchain technology is the answer?
Imogen Heap is the Grammy Award-winning singer-songwriter and record producer behind The Creative Passport, an identity management platform for music makers that runs on the blockchain. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Imogen joins Ross, Paul, and Evangeline to explain how the music industry’s challenges around crediting and payment inspired her interest in the blockchain space.
She weighs in on why she launched a collection of non-fungible tokens (NFTs) to raise funds for The Creative Passport and how she devoted a portion of the proceeds to Nori to offset the carbon emissions associated with minting those NFTs. Listen in for Imogen’s vision of a more diverse commercial music industry where artists are empowered to host their own data and share it with others on the blockchain.
Connect with Nori
Purchase Nori Carbon Removals
Join Nori’s book club on Patreon
Nori’s website
Sign up for Nori’s weekly Newsletter, The Nori Wrap
Check out our other podcast, Carbon Removal Newsroom
Resources
Imogen’s App
The Creative Passport
Vinay Gupta at MATTEREUM
Vinay Gupta’s Hexayurt Project
MYCELIA
Endlesss
Don Diablo
OpenSea
Cargo
arweave
Paul’s Post on Removing Carbon Emissions from NFTs
Kelly Garrett on Twitter

Jul 6, 2021 • 59min
S2E71: Elon Musk's Carbon Removal XPRIZE—w/ Dr. Marcius Extavour, VP Energy & Climate at XPRIZE
Big-ticket investments in carbon removal innovation are newsworthy, but perhaps nothing captures the public imagination quite like a cash prize. And the $100M purse associated with XPRIZE Carbon Removal happens to be the largest in history. So, how does an award of this magnitude translate to meaningful climate solutions?
Dr. Marcius Extavour is the Vice President of Energy and Climate at XPRIZE, a nonprofit using large-scale global competitions to crowdsource solutions to the world’s greatest challenges. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Dr. Extavour joins Ross to discuss XPRIZE Carbon Removal, explaining how Elon Musk got involved in funding the $100M prize purse and what it takes to win the $50M grand prize.
He describes how winning an XPRIZE gives a project momentum, offering insight on how the prize model complements traditional investments and sharing historic examples of awards that led to technological breakthroughs. Listen in for Dr. Extavour’s call to maintain a collaborative spirit in the carbon removal space as it evolves and find out how you can get involved in XPRIZE Carbon Removal.
Connect with Nori
Purchase Nori Carbon Removals
Join Nori’s book club on Patreon
Nori’s website
Sign up for Nori’s weekly Newsletter, The Nori Wrap
Check out our other podcast, Carbon Removal Newsroom
Resources
XPRIZE Foundation
XPRIZE Carbon Removal Overview
XPRIZE Carbon Removal Guidelines
Email carbonremoval@xprize.org
CarbonCure on Reversing Climate Change S2EP16
Carbon Upcycling on Reversing Climate Change S2EP60
CarbonBuilt
Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time by Dava Sobel
The Orteig Prize
Dr. Extavour’s Keynote at the 2021 AirMiners Conference
Climeworks
Carbon Engineering
Global Thermostat
Charm Industrial
Pachama
AirMiners Launchpad