
The ABMP Podcast | Speaking With the Massage & Bodywork Profession
Our goal is to speak with luminaries and experts in and around massage and bodywork to help expound upon and better understand our profession and our practices.
Latest episodes

Jan 21, 2025 • 12min
Ep 482 – Rib Out? Where Did It Go?: “The Rebel MT” with Allison Denney
What exactly happens when a rib goes out? While it's not exactly hitting the club scene in Vegas, what happens is not so different from if it did. In this episode of The ABMP Podcast, host Allison Denney of Rebel Massage explains what is going on when a rib goes out, how to think about costovertebral joints, and the importance of the health history. Host Bio: Contact Allison Denney: rebelmt@abmp.com Allison’s website: www.rebelmassage.com Allison Denney is a certified massage therapist and certified YouTuber. You can find her massage tutorials at YouTube.com/RebelMassage. She is also passionate about creating products that are kind, simple, and productive for therapists to use in their practices. Her products, along with access to her blog and CE opportunities, can be found at rebelmassage.com. About our Sponsors: Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com Rebel Massage Therapist: http://www.rebelmassage.com Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Rebel Massage Therapist: My name is Allison. And I am not your typical massage therapist. After 20 years of experience and thousands of clients, I have learned that massage therapy is SO MUCH more than a relaxing experience at a spa. I see soft tissue as more than merely a physical element but a deeply complex, neurologically driven part of who you are. I use this knowledge to work WITH you—not ON you—to create change that works. This is the basis of my approach. As a massage therapist, I have worked in almost every capacity, including massage clinics, physical therapy clinics, chiropractor offices, spas, private practice, and teaching. I have learned incredible techniques and strategies from each of my experiences. In my 20 years as a massage therapist, I have never stopped growing. I currently have a private practice based out of Long Beach, California, where I also teach continuing education classes and occasionally work on my kids. If they’re good. website: www.rebelmassage.com FB: facebook.com/RebelMassage IG: instagram.com/rebelmassagetherapist YouTube: youtube.com/c/RebelMassage email: rebelmassagetherapist@gmail.com

Jan 17, 2025 • 21min
Ep 481 – Setting Financial Goals: “Business or Pressure” with Allissa Haines
Walk through the process to set and achieve a reasonable financial goal for 2025 without the corporate jargon. Resources: Guest Marcy Basile, massage therapist and chief muscle mover at Connect Bodyworks. Website designer at Blue Setter Creative www.bluesettercreative.com Host: Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner and columnist for Massage & Bodywork magazine. You can find her building a community of massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com/community. Author links: Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com/community

Jan 14, 2025 • 19min
Ep 480 – Active Engagement Techniques with Whitney Lowe
Active engagement techniques incorporate active client movement with specific massage treatment applications and can be applied to virtually any region of the body. In this episode of The ABMP Podcast, Whitney Lowe explores some of the key physiological benefits of active engagement and why they have become a powerful tool in manual therapy. Host: Whitney Lowe is a known authority in the field of massage therapy, with a 36-year career marked by clinical work, research, publications, and teaching in advanced massage principles. He specializes in treating pain and injuries using massage and is one of the pioneers of the orthopedic massage approach. Lowe's Orthopedic Massage Program stands out in its engaging and accessible design and comprehensive curriculum. Students, whether learning online or in-person, praise Lowe for his approachable style and personalized training. Sponsors: Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA

Jan 7, 2025 • 18min
Ep 479 – Returning Symptoms with Doug Nelson
As a massage therapist, few things are more disheartening than hearing a client say their symptoms have returned. How should you approach this situation, and where do you begin? In this episode of The ABMP Podcast, Doug Nelson invites us to explore new perspectives and shares four key reasons he believes are at the heart of recurring symptoms. Host: Douglas Nelson is Board Certified in Massage Therapy and Therapeutic Bodywork, beginning his career in massage therapy in 1977. Seeing over 1,200 client visits annually for decades, he is also the owner of BodyWork Associates, a massage therapy clinic in Champaign, IL. with 21 therapists that was established in 1982. He is the founder of NMT MidWest, Inc., providing training in Precision Neuromuscular Therapy™ across the USA. He has personally taught more than 13,000 hours of continuing education and is the author of three books. Doug is a past president of the Massage Therapy Foundation. Sponsors: Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA

Dec 20, 2024 • 11min
Ep 478 – Overcoming Inertia in Your Massage Business: “Business or Pressure” with Allissa Haines
Inertia in business is powerful. Business or Pressure host Allissa Haines talks through how to embrace change to improve your next year in business. Host: Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner and columnist for Massage & Bodywork magazine. You can find her building a community of massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com/community. Author links: Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com/community Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/deepbreathcommunity/ Sponsors: Jojoba: www.jojobacompany.com HobaCare Jojoba is a premium quality, 100% pure jojoba oil that is highly beneficial for massage therapists. As a single-ingredient product, it aligns perfectly with holistic practices, providing an all-natural, chemical-free massage medium option. Jojoba oil closely resembles human sebum, which allows it to absorb easily and deeply into the skin, delivering a non-greasy, moisturizing experience that doesn't clog pores or cause allergic reactions. This unique property makes it an excellent medium for massage, enhancing tactile contact without leaving an oily residue. HobaCare Jojoba is also shelf stable and will not stain natural fiber sheets. By choosing HobaCare Jojoba, massage therapists can enhance their practice, offering clients a superior, skin-friendly experience that promotes both skin health and overall well-being. Website: www.hobacare.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jojobacompany Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jojobacompany

Dec 13, 2024 • 16min
Ep 477 – Clarity Keeps Friends Friends: “Business or Pressure” with Allissa Haines
A clear, ongoing written agreement of expectations is a great way to improve accountability and be a professional in every situation. Business or Pressure host Allissa Haines walks through some ideas and examples to gain clarity in collaborations. Resources: Sakinah Irizarry, Disparity in Healthcare: https://www.2rmtsandamic.com/episodes/episode/df97a7bf/the-disparity-in-healthcare-with-guest-sakinah Host: Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner and columnist for Massage & Bodywork magazine. You can find her building a community of massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com/community. Author links: Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com/community Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/deepbreathcommunity/ Sponsors: Jojoba: www.jojobacompany.com HobaCare Jojoba is a premium quality, 100% pure jojoba oil that is highly beneficial for massage therapists. As a single-ingredient product, it aligns perfectly with holistic practices, providing an all-natural, chemical-free massage medium option. Jojoba oil closely resembles human sebum, which allows it to absorb easily and deeply into the skin, delivering a non-greasy, moisturizing experience that doesn't clog pores or cause allergic reactions. This unique property makes it an excellent medium for massage, enhancing tactile contact without leaving an oily residue. HobaCare Jojoba is also shelf stable and will not stain natural fiber sheets. By choosing HobaCare Jojoba, massage therapists can enhance their practice, offering clients a superior, skin-friendly experience that promotes both skin health and overall well-being. Website: www.hobacare.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jojobacompany Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jojobacompany

Dec 10, 2024 • 19min
Ep 476 – Marfan’s Syndrome and Scar Tissue: “I Have a Client Who . . .” Pathology Conversations with Ruth Werner
A client with Marfan’s syndrome, a connective tissue disorder with dysfunctional collagen, has had multiple surgeries for a traumatic accident, and their scar tissue is restricting their ease of movement. Their massage therapist is concerned about how best to help them regain function. When I have questions about scar tissue, I go to the Scar Tissue Diva, Cathy Ryan. In this episode we discuss the difference between “challenging tissue” and working with the fluid environment to improve function. Host Bio: Ruth Werner is a former massage therapist, a writer, and an NCBTMB-approved continuing education provider. She wrote A Massage Therapist’s Guide to Pathology, now in its seventh edition, which is used in massage schools worldwide. Werner is also a long-time Massage & Bodywork columnist, most notably of the Pathology Perspectives column. Werner is also ABMP’s partner on Pocket Pathology, a web-based app and quick reference program that puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips. Werner’s books are available at www.booksofdiscovery.com. And more information about her is available at www.ruthwerner.com. Resources: Pocket Pathology: https://www.abmp.com/abmp-pocket-pathology-app Cathy Ryan, Registered Massage Therapist, at cryanrmt@gmail.com Live and online scar tissue classes through Healwell: https://online.healwell.org/pages/scars-fascia-lymph-landing ABMP CE Library: Scar Tissue Management, with Cathy Ryan and Nancy Keeney Smith: https://www.abmp.com/learn/course/scar-tissue-management-part-1-introduction A short list of Stecco fascial research papers: Adstrum, S. et al. (2017) ‘Defining the fascial system’, Journal of Bodywork and Movement Therapies, 21(1), pp. 173–177. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jbmt.2016.11.003. Stecco, A. et al. (2023) ‘From Muscle to the Myofascial Unit: Current Evidence and Future Perspectives’, International Journal of Molecular Sciences, 24(5), p. 4527. Available at: https://doi.org/10.3390/ijms24054527. Stecco, C. and Schleip, R. (2016) ‘A fascia and the fascial system’, Journal of Bodywork and Movement Therapies, 20(1), pp. 139–140. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jbmt.2015.11.012. Suarez-Rodriguez, V. et al. (2022) ‘Fascial Innervation: A Systematic Review of the Literature’, International Journal of Molecular Sciences, 23(10), p. 5674. Available at: https://doi.org/10.3390/ijms23105674. About our Sponsors: Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com MassageBook: www.massagebook.com Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Save time and reduce stress with MassageBook. It’s not just software—it’s a comprehensive solution that handles online scheduling, payment processing, and marketing campaigns, making it easier for you to provide your clients with top-notch care. Enjoy free, unlimited access for 30 days and save on your monthly subscription with your exclusive ABMP member discount. Special Offer: Right now, MassageBook is offering listeners $50 off when they sign up with coupon code ABMP50. Start your free 30-day trial today and transform your practice with tools designed to increase bookings and streamline client management. Connect with MassageBook: Visit their website: MassageBook Follow MassageBook on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn

Dec 3, 2024 • 13min
Ep 475 – Anatomy - A Marriage Between Westeros and Studio Ghibli: “The Rebel MT” with Allison Denney
Learning anatomy is hard. There's a lot of Latin, some funny names, and a LOT of categories. It’s kind of like a Game of Thrones book. But getting a grasp on it all might be a little easier if we lean into the in-between spaces. In this last episode of the year, Allison invites you to look at learning anatomy differently. Channel your inner Ponyo. And don't stop trying. Host Bio: Contact Allison Denney: rebelmt@abmp.com Allison’s website: www.rebelmassage.com Allison Denney is a certified massage therapist and certified YouTuber. You can find her massage tutorials at YouTube.com/RebelMassage. She is also passionate about creating products that are kind, simple, and productive for therapists to use in their practices. Her products, along with access to her blog and CE opportunities, can be found at rebelmassage.com. About our Sponsors: Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com MassageBook: www.massagebook.com Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Save time and reduce stress with MassageBook. It’s not just software—it’s a comprehensive solution that handles online scheduling, payment processing, and marketing campaigns, making it easier for you to provide your clients with top-notch care. Enjoy free, unlimited access for 30 days and save on your monthly subscription with your exclusive ABMP member discount. Special Offer: Right now, MassageBook is offering listeners $50 off when they sign up with coupon code ABMP50. Start your free 30-day trial today and transform your practice with tools designed to increase bookings and streamline client management. Connect with MassageBook: Visit their website: MassageBook Follow MassageBook on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn

Nov 22, 2024 • 11min
Ep 474 – Old School Business Skills Still Work: “Business or Pressure” with Allissa Haines
Host Allissa Haines shares her plans to increase client numbers with old school methods like signage and referrals to tackling the tedium of SEO and website updates. Host: Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner and columnist for Massage & Bodywork magazine. You can find her building a community of massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com/community. Author links: Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com/community Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/deepbreathcommunity/ Sponsors: Jojoba: www.jojobacompany.com HobaCare Jojoba is a premium quality, 100% pure jojoba oil that is highly beneficial for massage therapists. As a single-ingredient product, it aligns perfectly with holistic practices, providing an all-natural, chemical-free massage medium option. Jojoba oil closely resembles human sebum, which allows it to absorb easily and deeply into the skin, delivering a non-greasy, moisturizing experience that doesn't clog pores or cause allergic reactions. This unique property makes it an excellent medium for massage, enhancing tactile contact without leaving an oily residue. HobaCare Jojoba is also shelf stable and will not stain natural fiber sheets. By choosing HobaCare Jojoba, massage therapists can enhance their practice, offering clients a superior, skin-friendly experience that promotes both skin health and overall well-being. Website: www.hobacare.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jojobacompany Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jojobacompany

Nov 19, 2024 • 14min
Ep 473 – Client Centeredness with Cindy Williams
Being client centered means we always make choices and act with the best interests and well-being of our clients. In this episode of The ABMP Podcast, Cindy Williams covers a variety of examples of client centeredness as a reminder of how we can bring this core ethical principle into our professional practices. Host Bio: After earning a degree in Sociology from Indiana University in 1997, Cindy Williams stumbled upon her calling as a massage therapist and bodyworker. She completed massage school in Boulder, CO in 2000 and has been actively involved in the profession since that time. For the last 24 years, Cindy has been in private practice, as well as serving in the education realm as an instructor, administrator, curriculum developer, consultant, and mentor. She currently works as an author and freelance educational content writer while continuing to support individuals on their healing journeys through bodywork, meditation, and other mindfulness practices. To learn more, visit her website at www.imaginehealthforyou.com. About our Sponsors: Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com MassageBook: www.massagebook.com Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Save time and reduce stress with MassageBook. It’s not just software—it’s a comprehensive solution that handles online scheduling, payment processing, and marketing campaigns, making it easier for you to provide your clients with top-notch care. Enjoy free, unlimited access for 30 days and save on your monthly subscription with your exclusive ABMP member discount. Special Offer: Right now, MassageBook is offering listeners $50 off when they sign up with coupon code ABMP50. Start your free 30-day trial today and transform your practice with tools designed to increase bookings and streamline client management. Connect with MassageBook: Visit their website: MassageBook Follow MassageBook on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn
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