Post-Growth Australia Podcast

With the twin horsemen of climate change and diminishing fossil fuels impacting food security (did you know that 10 calories of fossil fuel are required per calorie of food?) it is evident that the future of industrial agriculture looks more than a little grim. Given that food is critical for survival, PGAP continues to explore the essential answers to the question: how do we radically change our approach to growing food in the years to come? Dr. Shane Simonsen operates a ‘Zero Input Agriculture’ farm in the highlands of South-East Queensland. What does zero input mean and does it work? Shane shares with PGAP how a zero input system works, in addition to weaving his vast knowledge and unique insights into a very pithy conversation with PGAP host Michael Bayliss. Shane regularly posts on his farm and his worldly observation on his website, Zero Input Agriculture, which we encourage you to explore. Shane has also been a guest on podcasts such as Abundant Edge. Shane and I are mutual contacts of Michel Stasse and Doon Wyborn, both doing great things in permaculture and collapse awareness. Both have also been previous guests on PGAP. You can listen to Doon’s interview here and Michel here. Do you enjoy this episode? Then please Support PGAP. Subscribe here. Contact us here. Rate and review us on Apple Podcast. Last episode I interviewed regenerative farming icon Charles Massy to promote the Fenner conference ‘Making Australian Agriculture Sustainable.’ The Fenner conference proved to be fantastic with its array of fantastic speakers and its juggling of the precariousness of Australia’s agricultural predicaments while also offering many hopeful solutions. I certainly learnt a lot more about dung beetles! The conference was supported and sponsored by Sustainable Population Australia, who also support this podcast. Good on them! These are a couple of online screenshots from the first day of the conference. I am sure higher quality photos, taken on ground, will be available soon! The song of choice for this episode is ‘Safe Room’, the first recorded single from my band ‘Shock Octopus’ back in 2011. Back then, songs about collapse were still seen as somewhat niche in the WA music scene (and in mainstream society more broadly). These days, collapse is so obviously a thing that even the Murdoch Press are talking about it! What can I say, I was there first. You can find out more about ‘Safe Room’ at the Shock Octopus Bandcamp page here (you can even support the artist and buy a copy – hint). Would you like to find out more about PGAP’s host, Michael Bayliss? You can find out more at my website here. Disclaimer: All opinions from PGAP’s guests are theirs alone, and does not necessarily reflect the opinions or position held by PGAP, Michael Bayliss, or Sustainable Population Australia. This includes all current and previous research, work, advocacy or opinions attributable to our interviewees.Special Guest: Dr. Shane Simonsen.

On March the 17th, a conference will be converging in Canberra called ‘Making Agriculture Sustainable’. As we all know, Australian agriculture today is largely unsustainable. Soils are degrading and are in need of regeneration and broad acre farming is delivering food in quantity but not always in quality. So this conference will include an exceptional group of speakers to address the question: Can we feed ourselves and not destroy the Earth? One of the keynote speakers, Charles Massy, has become a household name in regenerative farming. He has a bestselling book ‘Call of the Reed Warbler: A New Agriculture’ and has been the subject of an Australian Story episode. PGAP is delighted to have Charles join us to discuss regenerative agriculture in depth and tell us more about the upcoming Fenner conference. (a sample of the many speakers at the 2022 Feneer conference) To find out more or to register for the 2022 Fenner conference ‘Making Agriculture Sustainable’ click here. The Australian Story episode of Charles Massy can be found here. To find out more about his book ‘Call of the Reed Warbler,’ start here Rod Taylor, one of the Fenner organisers, has also recently published a book ‘ Ten Journeys on A Fragile Planet.’ Agriculture and care for country are both reoccurring themes in this book. You can find out more here. This year’s Fenner conference is made possible by the generous support of Sustainable Population Australia (SPA). SPA are also the main supporters of PGAP. You can read more on their recent discussion paper of ‘Population and Climate Change’ here. If population policy in Australia is a concern for you in the lead up to the election, SPA offers come handy hints on making a difference here. SPA relies on grass roots donations, supporters and members to ensure that their important message has cut through in a generally unforgiving media environment. To support SPA, find out more here. It has been 50 years since that wonderful but intimating book ‘Limits to Growth’ was published in 1972. It is as relevant as ever (especially as the worst case projections in the book are all playing out on cue). A great article was recently written on the anniversary which can be read here. Got feedback? Post-Growth ideas? Or would you like to be a guest on PGAP or contribute your music? Then please say hello on our contact page here. Rate and review PGAP on Apple Podcast. Share PGAP far and wide – with your kind support PGAP is becoming increasingly known and popular Thank you! The music of choice for this episode is 'Blame It On The Sun' by 'Counting Backwards'. A link to their Bandcamp page can be found here. Want to find out a little more about PGAP’s host? Michael’s website can be visited here.Special Guest: Charles Massy.

It is true that new houses require a lot a resources and emissions to build. So, it is critical that when we must build, that we do it right. Otherwise we waste so much in heating, air conditioning, repairs, demolition and all the other emission trappings with running a house. For this episode of PGAP, we chat with Simone Schenkel, award winning certified passive house designer and director of Victorian based Gruen Eco Design. Simone explains to host Michael Bayliss the fundamentals of passive housing design, how to make eco housing more affordable and why eco building should be the rule and not the exception in Australia’s construction industry. In true PGAP fashion, we also discuss the systemic issues that result in Australians paying high prices for what have been described as ‘glorified tents’ and what needs to change. Thinking of building your eco-home or want to find more about the fundamentals of passive housing design with Gruen Eco Design? Check out their Website, Instagram or their Facebook page and group. The way we plan and design our homes, communities and cities are an overlooked but critical component of the Post-Growth transition. You may be interested in our previous episode, ‘A Public Housing Revolution’ with Degrowth academic Dr Alex Baumann. This episode has proven to be very popular, touching a nerve with many new listeners. What are your thoughts on the state of Australia’s housing and urban planning systems? Most of us have very strong opinions on these issues as they have a huge impact on our time, money and lives. Share your ideas with PGAP by contacting us on our contact page. Rate and review us on Apple Podcast and share this podcast widely to your friends, family, archenemies and the neighbourhood cat. The music of choice for this episode was ‘Little Pete’s Playground’ from West Australian band ‘Soon’. For anyone into early 90s Shoegaze, the entire EP is a delight and one of my favourite albums of all time. PGAP is made possible with the kind support of SPASpecial Guest: Simone Schenkel.

Housing is an essential human need, but as the average median house price in Australian capital cities now exceed $1 million, this requires some very significant dropping into the marketplace in order to afford a roof over our heads. According to the research of PGAP’s esteemed guest Dr. Alex Baumann, the act of owning a property of one’s own can place one in that dreaded 1% richest people in the world. Alex discusses why the privatisation of land forces us all into lifestyles that are antithetical to the degrowth movement and why housing needs to be at the core of post-growth activism. Alex also explains why public housing is one overlooked solution and how reinvigorating this asset is part and parcel to a degrowth future. Ready to have your whole perspective on housing turned around? This is the episode for you! Dr. Alex Baumann and I found each other on the Town Planning Reblellion (TPR) Facebook group. Find out more about TPR and its parent organisation, Holistic Activism here. Want to be an ACTIVE part of the housing revolution? This is a great place to start. I interviewed TPR founder, Mark Allen on season 2’s “Exploring Christie Walk EcoHousing with Adelaide Chronicles and Town Planning Rebellion.” If you liked the themes in this episode you’ll love that one. I first came across Alex’s good work in an article in The Conversation titled: “We are the 1%: the wealth of many Australians puts them in an elite club wrecking the planet.” The article was co-written with Samuel Alexander, whose has been a inspiration for me in the Degrowth movement. Speaking of Samuel Alexander! The song of choice for this episode, “Meditations on Simplicity” is from the Mortimer’s Method album ‘Dreaming Backwards, Falling Awake’, based on excerpts from the Degrowth fiction novel ‘Entropia’ by Samuel Alexander. ‘Entropia’ isn’t the only fiction work on post-growth out there. PGAP interviewed Sharon Ede, post-growth activist and author of ‘Mage’, in season two of PGAP. Alex is even more animated on video! He explains many of the points raised in this episode and more in the YouTube video “A New Path to Sustainability.” Ted Trainer is an inspiration for Alex and was brought up several times during the interview. You can hear the PGAP interview with Ted in full here. Finally, Martin Tye, Australian regional chapter director of CASSE, will be giving a zoom presentation for the Sustainable Living Festival on "Degrowth & the Steady State" on 06th February, 9am AEDT. More information can be found on the SLF website. Martin was a guest on the first ever episode of PGAP and I’m sure he will be just as excellent in his presentation as he was on the episode! Essentially, I can't recommend him enough. Please contact PGAP with your thoughts and feedback or rate and review us on Apple Podcast. Share PGAP with your friends, families, network, your bitter enemies and the neighbourhood cat. Basically, everyone. Post-Growth Australia Podcast is made possible from the kind support of SPASpecial Guest: Alex Baumann.

Permaculture is a popular topic on PGAP. Many who practice permaculture tend to also resonate with post-growth ideas. But for those in the post-growth movement who don’t like to garden, are there still things we can learn from permaculture? Can permaculture principles be applied to the wider economic, political and social change movements, or should permaculture keep itself to the garden bed? A new book, ‘The Politics of Permaculture’ endeavours to unpack the theory and practice of this popular and broad social movement. Author Terry Leahy collated many interviews and points of view from permaculture practitioners across the world, from Australia to Zimbabwe and everywhere in-between, to capture the many perspectives of how permaculture is understood. He shares this and more with PGAP, including his own vision for a future gift economy. Having crossed paths with Terry Leahy through several community, gardening and permaculture initiatives in Melbourne, it was fantastic to reconnect with Terry again and dig in deep (literally and figuratively) over this very fascinating and thought provoking book. Support Post-Growth Australia Podcast. Subscribe to us through this link . Contact us on the contact form here. Rate and review PGAP on Apple Podcast here. PGAP exists free of corporate sponsorship and advertising, so we rely exclusively on word of mouth to sow the seeds of the podcast that explores the most critical issues facing the planet. Would you like your very own copy of 'The Politics of Permaculture?' You can acquire it through Pluto Press here The song of choice from this episode is the very topical 'Climate Movement' from Formidable Vegetable. . Given how many times I have played Formidable Vegetable on PGAP, it is fair to say that I am quite the fan. It was wonderful to see them play live at New Years Eve in Albany and to discover we are (sort of) neighbours. If you would like to find out more about Terry Leahy's work he has kindly provided some links below: Leahy, Terry (2019) Food Security for Rural Africa: Feeding the Farmers First, Routledge. Leahy, Terry (2017) Humanist Realism for Sociologists, Routledge, Leahy, Terry, Website – [The Gift Economy](www.gifteconomy.org.au) Leahy, Terry – YouTube channel: What’s Wrong with the World and How to Fix it. Leahy, Terry and sister Leahy, Gillian (2013) The Chikukwa Project documentary - 53 minutes version Leahy, Terry and sister Leahy, Gillian (2013) The Chikukwa Project documentary- 20 minutes educational version And if this wasn't enough links: I recently had my 'post-growth manifesto' published on the Ending Overshoot blog. It is based on the script I used for the Christmas 2021 PGAP special. In Season 1 of PGAP I interviewed Anitra Nelson who had just co-authored an exciting overview of the Degrowth movement. I actually met Anitra through one of Terry's day parties. It is all one big happy and most functional family at PGAP! Too much permaculture barely enough? PGAP has interviewed David Holmgren, Caroline Smith, Tania Brookes and Artist as FamilySpecial Guest: Terry Leahy.

“I started bringing leadership into the environment. Because I felt like there’s a lot of people telling other people what to do, spreading facts and figures. But no-one really making it enjoyable. Saying you’re going to like this, you’re going to wish you started earlier, speaking from personal experience.” Joshua Spodek is a bestseller author, multiple TEDx talker and host of award winning podcast “This Sustainable Life”. Joshua is a huge advocate for the environment and for system change toward a post-growth planet. He takes his politics into his home life and made some incredible life transformations in his mission to living more sustainably. So, how has a move toward a meat-free life of no food packaging and no plane miles played out for our special guest on the Season 3 Premiere of PGAP? Is this a life of wilful deprivation and martyrdom? Or have these personal challenges transformed his life into one of joy and a different kind of abundance? Joshua tells all through amusing personal anecdotes coupled with an incredibly well-read and researched outlook on the world. “We have to change ourselves if we expect others to change. Being right is….really annoying.” - Joshua Spodek Welcome back to Post-Growth Australia Podcast after a brief hiatus. I for one am very honoured to be launching the Season 3 Premiere of PGAP with such as distinguished guest as Joshua Spodek. His long history in public speaking alone will ensure that your ears are serenaded for the next 60 minutes! A cursory viewing of any of his TEDx talks will prove my point: here; here; or here; You may also have noticed that PGAP has had a bit of face-lift, with an update to the graphics courtesy of Squeaky Pea designs. I hope you like the changes! Looking forward to a mammoth season 3 with a stellar array of amazing guests. The new intro sounds for Season 3 PGAP provided courteousy of Perth composer Nicholas Gardiner. Find out more here. “Growth on its own means always craving what you don’t have. It means craving. It means ‘never satisfied’.” – Joshua Spodek I first discovered Joshua big time when he interviewed my colleague from Sustainable Population Australia, Dr. Jane O’Sullivan on his podcast ‘This Sustainable Life.’ Jane was invited to discuss a recent discussion paper she wrote for SPA debunking the ageing population crisis myth. ‘Silver Tsunami or Silver Lining: Why we should not fear an ageing population’ is available on the SPA website and makes for very eye-opening reading. The link to the interview can be found here. ‘This Sustainable Life’ is an amazing podcast series where big name guests are invited to make personal changes to their lives – for the inspiration of all! I myself have an interview coming up on the offshoot podcast series ‘This Sustainable Life: Solve For Nature.’ Stay tuned! _ “Efficiency in a finite world with growth leads to scarcity.” _– Joshua Spodek In the introduction to this episode I brought up how Australia is facing a urea shortage which has potentially dire consequences for our diesel and trucking industries (whould woulda thunk?) If you are interested in reading more, have a gander here. The above is just one symptom of what will soon be a much larger chain of supply chain issues and resource scarcity. Last month I shared around this article “It’s Not a Supply Chain Crisis — It’s a Failing Economy” on my Twitter feed just in time for the festive season! Want me to discuss limits to growth at YOUR next festive event? Pick up the phone - I'm a literal SCREAM at parties! _ “next time you’re stuck in Traffic, next time you’re waiting in line some place, imagine a world of 2 billion people.”_ Sustainable Population Australia, who support this podcast, aren’t claiming to turn the world’s numbers back to 2 billion overnight, but they are loudly advocating for an equitable world with equitable access to family planning and reproductive health services. They are also advocating to decouple population policy in Australia from the narrow interests of big business and big finance. Have a look at their ‘Let’s Rethink Big Australia’ campaign. “my swimming upstream makes it so that others feel they’re swimming downstream – and then it feels like I’m swimming downstream as well.” If you loved this episode we have some choice PGAP recommendations for you. Amrit Sandhu from Season 2 'Inspired Evolution' episode is also a podcast host and a personal transformation coach. Meg and Patrick from Artist as Family, who premiered season 2, live through example in their ‘neo-peasantry’ homestead in Victoria, Australia. Lastly, Nandita Bajaj, director of Population Balance, is another vegan in North America who lives a minimalist lifestyle and advocates for a sustainable population. Please remember to rate and review PGAP on Apple Podcast. If you have any suggestions, feedback, or just want to say “hi’ please feel free to contact me anytime on the contact form thus. Til next time, til then!Special Guest: Joshua Spodek.

The festive season is upon us as we wrap close to another year in the decade of consequence. To ‘celebrate’, PGAP host Michael Bayliss shares his own personal vision for a post-growth future. He looks back nostalgically on his Melbourne years, reflecting on the many successes and challenges from ten years in many various grassroots community initiatives. He also plays a selection of songs, penned by himself or by friends that espouse the Degrowth values of this podcast even if they may not inspire complete festive cheer. Enjoy! During our break between seasons, PGAP has been busy updating the graphics and the sound. What do you think of the new look? The graphics were provided by Adelaide’s Squeaky Pea Designs. The new intro theme was provided by Perth based composer and film scorer Nicholas Gardiner. Please contact PGAP anytime to share your thoughts. Rate and review PGAP on Apple Podcast – that would be the perfect Christmas gift (hint! Hint!) I also have a brand new Website now! Check it out here. ‘Michalbayliss.org’ is a depository of all my creativity, public outreach and multimedia projects over the years. I can also be contacted through the website for any collaborative opportunities that you may have in mind. I am available for interview, article writing, sound/video editing, project management, all at very competitive degrowth rates. PGAP is not the only podcast where I have been busy. I have recently been a guest on both the ‘Overpopulation Podcast’ and ‘The Steady Stater’ where I have been honoured to have some of my most enjoyable conversations in my life with some of the best hosts and all round human beings one could hope for. Stick around and have a gander! I mentioned Town Planning Rebellion on this episode and have interviewed TPR’s founder, Mark Allen, on two occasions during PGAP’s history. Mark has been particularly influential on my activism, outlook and attitudes, and I strongly recommending checking out ‘Holistic Activism’. Mark also founded the music project ‘Counting Backwards’ who provided the exclusively demo track ‘Miserable Sodding Christmas’ for this episode. You can discover Counting Backwards music here. Speaking of influences. I would like to acknowledge the work of Michelle Maloney, Anitra Nelson, Ian Lowe, Katherine Trebeck and Anne Poelina for having an impact on my views, outlooks, and philosophical positions that I have shared on this episode. I’ve been lucky enough to have them all as guests on PGAP! I’m sure we don’t share eye to eye on every single issue and I'm quite proud of holding my own opinions. Nevertheless, it is good to wear your influences on your sleeve! And finally, my band Shock Octopus, shared two songs on this episode: ‘A Deer Caught In The Headlights’ and ‘So Far From Home’. The entire catalogue can be seen on Bandcamp or on my website. Stick around for the new year when PGAP launches season 3 in style with a star studded cast of special guests. Until then, have a great festive season.

In this final episode of season 2, PGAP speaks with Economic Reform Australia (ERA) to find out why fundamental changes to our economic systems are a crucial part of a transition toward degrowth. Why do we have an economic system that prizes money and extraction over the environment and prospects for future generations? What is this ‘MMT’ that everyone is on about these days? Why is economics something that everyone should try to understand and not just leave to the academics and experts? PGAP travels to Adelaide to chat with ERA’s very own Bernard Thomson to find out more. PGAP also speaks with freelance economic thinker Zoltan Bexley to find out more about why Australia’s current economic system results in many poor outcomes for many of us, such as the favourite bugbear on PGAP – Australia’s housing unaffordability crisis. _ Please not that opinions raised in this episode are those of both guests and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of ERA as a whole. _ Host Michael Bayliss reflects on the dizzying last 12 months on the road, armed with microphone and recording hardware, that has resulted in on-the-ground PGAP views spanning the east coast from the highlands of the NSW/QLD border, down to Tasmania, then across to Adelaide. Now settled in Albany, Western Australia, I take time on this episode to reflect on the amazing journey and the incredible diversity of people doing outstanding post-growth things as we finally wrap up for season 2 of PGAP. PGAP will be taking a short break to revamp our graphics, create a new website and most importantly, take a well-earned break before we return with a vengeance for season 3. In the meantime, you can while away the time by meandering through these following links: The Economic Reform Australia (ERA) website can be found here. Sign up for a regular online journal and if you live in Adelaide, ERA regularly host events that take place within the heart of Adelaide's CBD. Please take the time during PGAP’s break to rate and review this podcast. Apple Podcast seems best place to do so. We would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on PGAP. Please don’t hesitate to contact us on our contact page to let us know what you truly think of us (within reason). If you would like to be interviewed by PGAP, or know someone you’d like to dob in, please contact us. Host Michael Bayliss is also available for interview – he loves being a host but he also misses being a guest! PGAP relies on word of mouth to get around, we don’t use any advertising or paid promotion. So, please get out there and spread our agnostic gospel on post-growth. Michael wrote statement on behalf of Sustainable Population Australia, “Rethinking Big Australia: the impacts of COVID-19”. Extracts from the statement have been published at ‘Independent Australia’ and the ‘Ending Overshoot’ blog. PGAP is made possible from the support of ‘Sustainable Population Australia'. At PGAP, we put our hat off to SPA for allowing this podcast to explore the broader issue of degrowth in which the population debate is one controversial but a necessary moving piece of discussion in the movement. Throughout the two seasons of PGAP, we often ask our guests at least one question of population and invite a diversity of opinions that invites open discussion rather than closed division. This is the only way we’re going to move forward on issues that we may not always see eye to eye on. Speaking of SPA, they have launched a ‘Let’s Rethink Big Australia’ campaign. We invite you to check it out. Speaking of checking out, PGAP wishes you well and see you soon for season 3. Timestamp: Intro 00:00 - 06:56 Bernard 07:08 - 34:16 Zoltan 34:24 - 01:02:05 Outro 01:02:16 - 01:04:58Special Guests: Bernard Thomson and Zoltan Bexley.

“What we feel shapes what we believe. What if we could feel the future before it arrives?” So reads the back cover of new fiction book ‘Mage’ written by sustainability professional, post-growth advocate and Adelaide local Sharon Ede. In this penultimate episode of the second season of PGAP, Sharon tells us why fiction, story-telling and emotional resonance are essential communications tools for the environmental movement to engage with the broader community. Providing facts and figures to rally the troops over large-scale existential crises has so far failed to work. Engaging people emotionally through storytelling and providing a ripping yarn just might be the missing link. Mage is definitely this kind of book and hopefully this interview will convince you to add 'Mage' to your post-growth library. I have not come across much post-growth fiction in my travels. Up until a few years ago, the 1970s novel ‘Ecotopia’ provided a fascinating day-to-day account on how a more ecocentric society might operate on the west coast of the USA. Unfortunately, the book is starting to show its age somewhat in some of its social justice attitudes when looked back through the lens of the 21st century. A much more up to date fictional account of a post-growth society can be found in the 2013 novel ‘Entropia’ by Dr Samuel Alexander. At a seminar at the 2019 Earth Ethics conference in Melbourne, Dr Alexander shared with attendees the importance for story-telling and art to carry the environmental message to the broader world. In fact, the music project ‘Mortimer's Method’ took this idea of art as education a step further by putting samples from the audio-book of 'Entropia' to modern music. An extract of the track 'How Now Shall We Live' is provided at the end of the episode. ‘Mage’ joins this pantheon and yet Sharon Ede goes beyond utopian society fiction and casts a much broader net with her new novel. Spanning the continents between Adelaide, Venice and the Arctic, Mage brings together many of the ideas and innovations that Sharon has picked up through her years as an environmental and Post-Growth advocate. It is a ripping epic of a yarn, worthy of comparisons to Dan Brown, Tim Powers or even an episode of Doctor Who. This episode was recorded, once more, on site at Christie Walk eco-development in Central Adelaide. In fact, it was recorded on the same evening as my interview with Sue Gilbey and Mark Allen in the previous episode of PGAP! So thank you to Christie Walk for providing the venue and Sue for providing the recording technology. Sue and Mark stayed around for the interview, so on occasion they can be heard in the background during the interview. It has been a pleasure to spend some time in Adelaide and to interview the post-growth movers and shakers who call this fine part of the world home. So it is with slight sadness on my part that this is not only the penultimate episode of The Adelaide series of interviews, but also the penultimate episode of the second series of PGAP. The second season of PGAP has been an epic travelogue almost worthy of ‘Mage’ including on site interviews from Northern Rivers to Adelaide and just about everywhere in between. It has been an incredible ride and thank you all for listening and travelling with me on this journey of discovery. ** Too much Post-Growth barely enough? Here are some links to further occupy your time. Thank me later!** A online link to find out more about Mage (and the seal the deal on your own personal copy) can be found here Want to find out more about Sharon and her extensive work outside of writing great fiction? Make a good start here The previous episode of PGAP was also recorded at Christie Walk (link here). Sue Gilbey interviewed Sharon for the Adelaide Chronicles podcast (link here) I mentioned Dr Michelle Maloney and the Earth Ethics conference of 2019. Michelle and her work with Australian Earth Law Alliance (AELA) and New Economy Network Australia (NENA) were interviewed for PGAP here Sharon was a founding member of the Post Growth Institute. PGI's Robert Wanalo was interviewed in PGAP season 1 here The ABC article I referred to in the intro for this episode was titled "Sustainable development won't solve environmental crises, say these experts. It's simpler than that"Special Guest: Sharon Ede.

This special and unorthodox episode of PGAP was recorded on-site the Christie Walk ecological co-housing development in central Adelaide to speak to not one, but TWO very special guests. Sue Gilbey is a resident of Christie Walk, host of the Adelaide Chronicles podcast series, an environmental activist, and an advocate for social justice causes. She is the only Australian (so far) to receive the internationally acclaimed Bremen Peace Award. Mark Allen is the founder of Town Planning Rebellion and Holistic Activism. He is a former town planner and former co-host of the City Limits program on Melbourne’s 3CR radio station. In this episode, Sue takes us on a virtual tour of Christie Walk as an example of sustainable inner city community development. Mark provides insight and clarity as to why places like Christie Walk are the exception and not the rule -and why we need to fight back at Australia’s broken property and housing sector (and those who profit most from this status quo). This is an interview in two parts. In part one of the interview, I caught up with Sue at Christie Walk to share her amazing life story, which includes a travelogue of rural Australia, Bangladesh and Cambodia. She shares her work campaigning for a sustainable and inclusive future for all people. Sue herself lives with an acquired disability, but this has not held her back from her tireless activism which includes hosting the incredible Adelaide Chronicles podcast. In Part 2, I met up again with Sue at Christie Walk and was delighted to be joined by Mark Allen from Town Planning Rebellion and Holistic Activism. Using Christie Walk as a central focus, the conversation then broadens into a discussion at to why alternative housing models are a critical part of the transition toward a post-growth world. Further, how the developer and investor infiltrated housing sector makes this crucial change so difficult. Mark Allen is a return guest to PGAP, having been a special guest in last year’s Retrosuburbia episode with David Holmgren. Mark also provides the music for this episode, via the track ‘Lost and Found Hours’ from his music project ‘Counting Backwards.’ This was the first time PGAP has attempted a three way interview on location and we were very fortunate to take advantage of Sue’s amazing portable 360 degree recording device. Sue and I ebb in an out of swapping ‘interviewer’ and ‘interviewee’ roles but I think we just about pull it off in a post-modern way. It is not every day you get to describe the aims of your podcast on your own show but we live in fascinating times. This episode was recorded with gratitude on unceded Kaurna land and PGAP pays respect to elders past, present and emerging.Special Guests: Mark Allen and Sue Gilbey.