

The Health Foundation podcast
The Health Foundation
Interviews with experts and high-profile guests discussing the most important issues affecting the future of health and care for people in the UK.
Episodes
Mentioned books

8 snips
Mar 24, 2023 • 34min
30: AI in health care: hope or hype? With Professor Sir John Bell and Dr Axel Heitmueller
News of artificial intelligence (AI) is everywhere. We seem to be on the cusp of a revolution in how the latest AI models will change our lives – and health and care could be at the centre of those changes.
AI will transform medicine, AI will allow doctorless screening and personalised prevention, AI will boost productivity, AI will make thousands of jobs redundant – so go all the claims.
But is this hype or real hope? How will AI transform health and care services and the experiences of staff and patients? What’s been the progress so far? And how best to move forward safely? And with growing demand, staff shortages and a public spending squeeze, could AI be a key answer to sustaining the NHS itself?
To discuss, our chief executive Dr Jennifer Dixon is joined by:
Professor Sir John Bell, Regius Professor of Medicine at the University of Oxford and an adviser to the government on life sciences strategy, and to Sir Patrick Vallance’s current review of how to regulate emerging technologies.
Dr Axel Heitmueller, Managing Director of Imperial College Health Partners. Axel has also worked as a senior analyst in the Cabinet Officer and Number 10 Downing Street.
Show notes
European Parliamentary Research Services (2022) AI in healthcare: applications, risks and ethical and societal impacts
Health Education England (2022) AI Roadmap: methodology and findings report
Health Education England (2019) The Topol Review: Preparing the healthcare workforce to deliver the digital future
The Health Foundation (2021) Switched on: how do we get the best out of automation and AI in health care?
HM Government (2021) National AI Strategy
HM Government (2018) Artificial intelligence sector deal
HM Government (2017) Industrial Strategy: Building a Britain fit for the future

Mar 8, 2023 • 35min
29: International Women’s Day: Voices in health care – with Dame Jane Dacre, Dr Nikita Kanani and Dr Gabrielle Mathews
Today, women make up around half of all doctors and two-thirds of all medical students. So, has equality in health care finally been achieved?
When International Women’s Day began in 1909, women were still barred from entering medical school. Today women make up a growing share of the medical workforce and students in the UK. Despite this considerable progress, research indicates that today women in health care are under-represented in leadership roles, are paid less than male colleagues on average, and still all too often encounter sexism and discrimination.
To mark International Women’s Day 2023, we invited three female leaders at different stages of their careers in health care to reflect on the expectations, experiences and challenges that have shaped their professional journeys and what needs to happen to continue building a truly inclusive workforce.
To discuss, our chief executive Dr Jennifer Dixon is joined by:
Dame Jane Dacre, emeritus professor at UCL Medical School, chair of the Health and Social Care Select Committee’s expert panel and former president of the Royal College of Physicians
Dr Nikita Kanani, director of clinical integration at NHS England and deputy senior responsible officer for the NHS COVID-19 vaccination programme and a GP in south east London
Dr Gabrielle Mathews, NHS Assembly Member (NHS England) and a doctor at North Middlesex University Hospital NHS Trust.
Show notes
World Health Organisation (2019) Gender equity in the health workforce
World Health Organisation (2019) Delivered by women, led by men: A gender equity analysis of the global health and social workforce
British Medical Association (2021) Sexism in medicine
General Medical Council (2022) The state of medical education and practice in the UK: the workforce report
Royal College of Physicians (2009) Women and medicine: the future
The Nuffield Trust (2018) The gender pay gap in the English NHS
Institute for Fiscal Studies (2023) Progress of parents in NHS medical and nursing careers
Dacre et al (2020) Independent review into gender pay gaps in medicine

Jan 28, 2023 • 32min
28: Low life expectancy in the north east, and what to do about it – with Alice Wiseman and Professor Clare Bambra
Improvements to life expectancy slowed in the last decade, and in some communities even went into reverse.
In England, the north east region has the lowest life expectancy. The last decade and a half has seen a worrying increase in mortality among younger people, and in particular men who are dying before their time. A big chunk of this excess mortality seems to be down to so called ‘deaths of despair’ – that’s deaths by suicide, violent injury and substance misuse.
So what's going on? And what can be done about it?
To discuss, our chief executive Dr Jennifer Dixon is joined by:
Alice Wiseman, Director of Public Health at Gateshead Council.
Professor Clare Bambra, professor of public health at Newcastle University.
Show notes
Local healthy life expectancy at birth by region and sex (2022) The Health Foundation
Map of healthy life expectancy (2022) The Health Foundation
Major study outlines wide health inequalities in England (2022) The Health Foundation
Health inequalities are worsening in the North East of England (2020) NIHR
Making health services work for deprived populations in the North East (2022) NHS England
Deaths of Despair: Conceptual and Clinical Implications (2021) Cognitive Behavioural Practice
Health Equity in England: The Marmot Review 10 Years On (2022) The Health Foundation
What is happening to life expectancy in England? (2022) The King’s Fund
Life expectancy declining in many English communities even before pandemic (2021) Imperial College London
Our approach to reducing healthcare inequalities by NHS England
Historic £1.4 billion devolution deal for North East (2022) Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities

Dec 20, 2022 • 32min
27: The year that was – 2022 round-up
What a rollercoaster year it's been. In this Christmas round-up, we're looking back over our 2022 podcast episodes and pulling out some top insights for you to reflect on.
Our chief executive Dr Jennifer Dixon shares clips from:
Catherine Howarth and John Godfrey, Are businesses and investors really serious about improving our health?
Dame Carol Black and Dr João Castel-Branco Goulão, Tackling the drug problem in the UK and Portugal
Professor Kevin Fenton and Richard Sloggett, Time to get tougher on the risk factors fraying our health?
Dame Clare Moriarty and Bim Afolami MP, Will the rising cost of living be paid for by our health?
Lord Norman Warner, Reforming health care: reflections from a former health minister
Dr Jacqui Dyer and John Hume, How the public thinks about health, and why it matters
Professor Heyo Kroemer and Professor Tim Orchard, A tale of two hospitals: the pandemic and its aftermath in Berlin and London
Dr Stephen Swensen and Dr Dominique Allwood, From white coat to grey suit: should more clinicians manage the NHS?
Rachel Wolf and Isabel Hardman, Does a new Prime Minister signal change in health and social care?
Richard Smith and Libby Sallnow, What to do about dying?
Sarah O’Connor and Professor James Banks, Is ill health driving economic inactivity, and what can be done?

Dec 10, 2022 • 39min
26: Is ill health driving economic inactivity, and what can be done about it? – with Sarah O’Connor and Professor James Banks
We're all familiar with some of the challenges ahead in the UK: a fiscal squeeze, limp productivity, a labour shortage and an ageing population with increasing needs.
As Andy Haldane put it in our recent REAL Challenge lecture, two routes to prosperity for the UK include increasing the number of workers and their productivity. But both of these routes now appear to be hampered by increasing ill health.
Since the pandemic, 600,000 working people have become economically inactive – that’s the size of the city of Manchester taken out of the economy. Two-thirds are the over 50s who've left and aren't looking for work. And at the other end of life, younger people entering work are reporting markedly more ill health due to depression and anxiety, and more young men in particular are economically inactive.
Can we carry on like this if our economy is to recover? Or is it now time for us to get serious about these trends, and how?
To discuss, our chief executive Dr Jennifer Dixon is joined by:
Sarah O’Connor, employment columnist at the Financial Times.
James Banks, Professor of Economics at the University of Manchester and Senior Research Fellow at the Institute for Fiscal Studies.
Show notes
Health is wealth? REAL Challenge annual lecture (2022) The Health Foundation
Is poor health driving a rise in economic inactivity? (2022) The Health Foundation
Proportion of UK workers on low pay at lowest level since 1997 (2022) Financial Times
There is a deepening mental health recession (2022) Financial Times
Is worsening health leading to more older workers quitting work, driving up rates of economic inactivity? (2022) IFS
The rise in economic inactivity among people in their 50s and 60s (2022) IFS
Half a million more people are out of the labour force because of long-term sickness (2022) ONS
Reasons for workers aged over 50 years leaving employment since the start of the coronavirus pandemic: wave 2
New Polling for Phoenix Insights (2022) Public First
Mental health conditions, work and the workplace (2022) Health and Safety Executive
Labour Market Statistics, October 2022 (2022) Institute for employment studies
Economic inactivity and the labour market experience of the long-term sick (2022) Jonathan Haskel and Josh Martin (this piece is currently a work in progress and a preliminary download has been made available by the authors)

Oct 22, 2022 • 35min
25: What to do about dying? – with Richard Smith and Libby Sallnow
We don’t like to think about death. To many, death and dying have no value and are relegated to the margins of our lives.
But about half a million of us in Britain die each year, mostly in our 80s, with half of us dying in our usual place of residence – in our own bed.
With palliative care stretched and family and friends often left unsupported, what could be an enriching and meaningful phase of life can become over-medicalised, transactional and feared.
There have been many attempts over recent years to normalise conversations on death, and in January this year The Lancet published its commission on the value of death following a five-year inquiry.
So how could we die better in the UK? Or as The Lancet commission puts it, how do we bring death back into life?
To discuss, our chief executive Dr Jennifer Dixon is joined by the two lead authors of the commission:
Richard Smith, currently Chair of the UK Health Alliance on Climate Change. Richard’s former roles include editor of the BMJ, chair of the board of trustees of the International Centre for Diarrhoeal Disease Research, Bangladesh and director of the UnitedHealth Chronic Disease Initiative.
Libby Sallnow, Palliative medicine consultant at CNWL & UCLH and honorary senior clinical lecturer in new public health approaches at St Christopher's & UCL.
Show notes
The Lancet Commission on the Value of Death (2022) The Lancet
Overdiagnosis and overtreatment during the covid-19 pandemic (2021) BMJ
Neighborhood Network in Palliative Care (2022) Centre for Health Market Innovations
What is an End of Life Doula? (2022) End of Life Doula UK
The Lancet Commission on Palliative Care and Pain Relief (2018) The Lancet

Sep 22, 2022 • 40min
24: Does a new Prime Minister signal change in health and social care? – with Rachel Wolf and Isabel Hardman
A new Prime Minister, government and health secretary, all facing a formidable array of challenges.
Prime Minister Liz Truss has said that putting the NHS ‘on a firm footing’ is one of her top three priorities (alongside the economy and energy). Meanwhile, Health Secretary Thérèse Coffey has said her priorities are ABCD (ambulances, backlog, care and doctors and dentists), and since the podcast recording she has set out the government's plans.
So how will this translate to the NHS, social care and improving the UK’s health? Will government have the bandwidth before an election to address more than the day-to-day pressures? And if a Truss government won a general election with a mandate to do more, what form would it take?
To discuss, our chief executive Dr Jennifer Dixon is joined by:
Rachel Wolf, Founding Partner at Public First. Rachel is also on the Board of the Centre for Policy Studies, co-authored the Conservative Party’s Election Manifesto in 2019 and was previously education and innovation adviser to the Prime Minister at 10 Downing Street.
Isabel Hardman, Assistant Editor at The Spectator. Isabel has authored two books – Why We Get the Wrong Politicians and The Natural Health Service – and is currently finishing a third on the NHS.
Show notes
Rachel Wolf, Public First, A few thoughts on the Downing Street policy unit
Rachel Wolf, Conservative Home, Truss’s in tray 3) Rachel Wolf: Levelling Up. There is no time for another new approach. The new Prime Minister must focus on delivery
Isabel Hardman, The Spectator, Is Coffey good for health? Thérèse Coffey is expected to become Deputy Prime Minister and Health Secretary. What's the significance?
Isabel Hardman, The Spectator, Can Liz Truss deliver, deliver, deliver?
Hugh Alderwick, Health policy priorities for the next prime minister: Avoid zombie policies and invest in growing the workforce and reducing inequalities. BMJ MJ 2022;378:o1726
The Health Foundation, Public perceptions of health and social care: what the new government should know
The Health Foundation, Waiting for NHS hospital care: the role of the independent sector

Aug 24, 2022 • 41min
23: From white coat to grey suit: should more clinicians manage the NHS? – with Dr Stephen Swensen and Dr Dominique Allwood
In meeting the huge challenges facing the NHS, technology is often looked to as the great hope. Yet studies suggest good management is a more active ingredient for success.
Over the years numerous reports have called for more clinicians to manage the NHS, highlighting their deep knowledge of clinical care, and insight and credibility to make effective change.
Now, over a third of all NHS chief executives hold a clinical qualification and about a third of jobbing clinicians have part-time management roles too. But that’s still only a third, and getting trained in management is patchy and haphazard – a finding echoed in the recent Messenger Review of health and social care leadership.
How can we support more clinicians to manage the NHS, and learn from those who already do it well?
To discuss, our chief executive Dr Jennifer Dixon is joined by:
Dr Stephen Swensen, Senior Fellow at the Institute for Healthcare Improvement. Stephen worked at the world-leading Mayo Clinic in Minnesota for three decades, overseeing the development of over 4,000 physicians and 200 leaders.
Dr Dominique Allwood, Chief Medical Officer and Academic Health Science Network Deputy at UCLPartners, where her focus is on clinical engagement and management. Dominique is an experienced medical leader and an expert in quality improvement.
Show notes
Management Lessons from Mayo Clinic Inside One of the World's Most Admired Service Organizations (2017) Leonard L. Berry, Kent D. Seltman
Mayo Clinic Strategies To Reduce Burnout: 12 Actions to Create the Ideal Workplace (2020) Stephen Swenson, Tait Shanafelt
Strengthening NHS management and leadership: Priorities for reform (2022) The Health Foundation
Leadership for a collaborative and inclusive future (2022) Sir Gordon Messenger
Five recommendations for strengthening NHS management and leadership (2022) The Health Foundation

Jul 27, 2022 • 41min
22: A tale of two hospitals: the pandemic and its aftermath in Berlin and London – with Professor Heyo Kroemer and Professor Tim Orchard
The pandemic challenged every health care system in the world. But what can we learn from one another aboutin the way we responded, and how we might improve for future threats?
In this episode we look up close at the experience of two large academic teaching hospitals embedded in two different health care systems – the Charité in Berlin, Germany’s largest teaching hospital, and Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust in London, one of the UK’s largest.
How do these two health care systems compare when dealing with the pandemic and its aftermath? And what can we learn?
Our Chief Executive Dr Jennifer Dixon is joined by:
Professor Heyo Kroemer, chief executive of Charité – Universitätsmedizin Berlin, one of the largest hospitals in Europe. A pharmacologist by trade, Heyo joined Charité in 2019 from the University of Göttingen’s Medical Center, where he held the positions of Dean and Chairman of the Managing Board.
Professor Tim Orchard, chief executive of Imperial College Healthcare. NHS Trust. A consultant physician and gastroenterologist, Tim was appointed chief executive in June 2018 after having been the director of clinical studies at St Mary’s Hospital.
Show notes
How does the NHS compare internationally? big election questions (2017) The King’s Fund
NHS hospital beds data analysis (2022) BMA
How does the UK compare internationally for health funding, staffing and hospital beds? (2017) The Health Foundation
Performance of UK National Health Service compared with other high income countries: observational study (2019) BMJ
What can England learn from the long-term care system in Germany? (2019) Nuffield Trust
Taxes and health care funding: how does the UK compare? (2021) The Health Foundation

Jul 8, 2022 • 37min
21: How the public thinks about health, and why it matters – with Dr Jacqui Dyer and John Hume
Ask the public about health, and they often put the responsibility on the individual and the NHS.
And yet we know the context in which we live and make choices really matters. The context that governments, businesses, employers and investors have a big hand in shaping.
Polling shows the public is increasingly seeing the government as having an important role to play in improving people's health, and there's public appetite to reduce the health inequalities highlighted by the pandemic.
So how does the public think about health? And what can be done to engage local communities in improving health?
Our Chief Executive Dr Jennifer Dixon is joined by:
Dr Jacqui Dyer MBE, co-founder and CEO of Black Thrive Global, a community interest company established in 2016 to address the inequalities affecting the mental health and wellbeing of black people in Lambeth. Jacqui is also a local councillor.
John Hume, Chief Executive of the People's Health Trust, a charity focused on reducing health inequalities through community development.
Show notes
A matter of life and death: explaining the wider determinants of health in the UK (2022) FrameWorks Institute
Addressing the leading risk factors for ill health (2022) The Health Foundation
What Works Centre for Wellbeing
The NHS as an anchor institution (2020) The Health Foundation


