

Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11)
Patrick McKenzie
We live in a world where our civilization and daily lives depend upon institutions, infrastructure, and technological substrates that are _complicated_ but not _unknowable_. Join Patrick McKenzie (patio11) as he discusses how decisions, technology, culture, and incentives shape our finance, technology, government, and more, with the people who built (and build) those Complex Systems.
Episodes
Mentioned books

28 snips
Jan 15, 2026 • 54min
Your support rep is also trapped in this call, with Des Traynor of Intercom
Des Traynor, co-founder of Intercom, discusses how AI is revolutionizing customer support. He delves into the evolution of their AI agent, Finn, which democratizes high-quality service and reduces repetitive tasks for human agents. The conversation highlights how AI can enhance user interactions, allowing candid exchanges without judgment. Traynor also addresses the changing role of support staff, emphasizing the need for strategic focus rather than routine tasks. He envisions a future where AI automates complex workflows, improving both efficiency and user satisfaction.

28 snips
Jan 8, 2026 • 39min
The magic spell that makes banks give you your money back
Dive into the world of consumer protection as Regulation E takes center stage. Discover how this law safeguards over 100 million complaints, far outpacing the court system. Hear about Zelle’s growing fraud issues and banks' attempts to sidestep liability. Explore the unique chargeback system that powers online transactions and empowers consumers. Patrick shares personal anecdotes that highlight the significance of these protections, illustrating how they adapt to emerging threats in the digital payment landscape.

37 snips
Jan 3, 2026 • 50min
2025 in review, with Sammy Cottrell
Join Sammy Cottrell, a savvy producer and the mastermind behind the Lighthaven podcast studio, as he reflects on the highlights of 2025. Sammy and Patrick McKenzie dive into the creative process of video podcasting, the ethical implications of AI, and the excitement of AI-assisted hobbies. They also chat about the most impactful episodes of the year, including the fascinating salary negotiation reading. Sammy shares his experiences with running a podcast and the logistics of studio setup, making it a lively discussion for aspiring podcasters and tech enthusiasts alike!

77 snips
Dec 26, 2025 • 16min
Gift cards and the fraud supply chain
Explore the paradox of gift cards as both a valid payment method and a key channel for fraud. Delve into why most retailers don't manage their own gift card programs, outsourcing to managers that complicate accountability. Learn about the lack of regulatory protections for gift cards and the implications of lighter regulations. Discover how these factors contribute to fraud victims feeling helpless and the unique challenges unregulated gift cards pose to both consumers and businesses.

48 snips
Dec 11, 2025 • 26min
Understanding perpetual futures
Explore the fascinating world of perpetual futures, the dominant trading mechanism in crypto that outpaces traditional spot trading. Patrick McKenzie dives into the intricacies of funding rates, liquidations, and the risks associated with high leverage. Discover how crypto exchanges resemble casinos aiming for capital efficiency, and learn about the innovative yet problematic concept of automatic deleveraging. Finally, ponder whether this crypto phenomenon can break into traditional finance, or if it will remain a niche tool.

53 snips
Dec 4, 2025 • 47min
The economics of discovery, with Ben Reinhardt
Ben Reinhardt, Founder of Speculative Technologies and an expert in science funding, joins the discussion to dissect the flaws in the U.S. science funding structure. He critiques the antiquated categories of basic, applied, and development research, explaining how they often misrepresent scientific workflows. Reinhardt highlights the overlapping nature of projects like semiconductors and emphasizes the crucial role of process knowledge in successful experiments. He also challenges the efficiency of university tech transfer offices and advocates for innovative funding models that empower researchers.

119 snips
Nov 20, 2025 • 1h 20min
Understanding equity at tech companies, with Billy Gallagher of Prospect
Billy Gallagher, CEO of Prospect, shares insights from his venture investing background to help employees navigate the complexities of startup equity. He explains the pitfalls of relying on simplistic equity advice and the critical importance of understanding options versus RSUs. Gallagher discusses the nuances of early exercising options, the implications of taxes, and the value of informed decision-making in managing equity. They also touch on the growing trend of tender offers and the impact of startup equity on financial growth and career trajectories.

59 snips
Nov 13, 2025 • 29min
The $4,000 insurance policy designed to never pay out
Explore the curious world of title insurance, which boasts a staggering 5% loss ratio compared to most insurance types. Discover why most Americans pay for this service even though it rarely pays out. Patrick dives into how property ownership is recorded in the U.S. and the quirks that lead to this costly scenario. He sheds light on the confusing marketplace where title insurance is sold and the incentives that keep buyers from shopping around. Plus, consider innovative alternatives like Attorney Opinion Letters and the implications for homeowners.

52 snips
Nov 6, 2025 • 33min
How deposit insurance actually works
Discover how deposit insurance operates as a crucial safety net, ensuring you don’t lose money when banks fail. Learn about the risks that aren’t covered and the often-overlooked realities of counterparty risk in fintech. Dive into the intricate process behind bank failures, from liquidity issues to the FDIC's strategies for maintaining stability. Patrick sheds light on the costs associated with bank failures and the deeper government backing that keeps the system intact. This knowledge is vital, especially in uncertain economic times.

53 snips
Oct 30, 2025 • 30min
Home improvement lending with fewer bankers and more computers
Delve into the innovative world of home improvement financing, where window installers can secure loans in just 15 minutes. Discover why traditional banks shy away from small loans, and how modern technology has shifted the lending landscape learned from past financial mistakes. Explore the four-party system that enables rapid approvals and clear compliance measures that protect consumers. Plus, learn how origination tech in solar financing has been adapted for windows, creating an efficient and transparent process.


