The Online Course Show

Today we’re doing a few things differently, so get ready: we have two guests and zero “traditional” online courses involved. But don’t worry, because my discussion with Craig and Zach of Fraternity of Excellence is still super-relevant to many aspects of having a more typical online course business or membership model. “Don’t let the fear of not being perfect when you launch keep you from launching.” - Craig James “Inside a membership community, it’s all about relationships.” - Zach Small In This Episode, We Talked About: (0:40) Dr. K is back: where was he and what do lizards have to do with it? (6:18) Our Asheville, NC recommendations + David’s ideal Instagrammer (8:47) Getting recognized “in the wild” (10:27) An update on my quest for the ultimate course platform (11:37) Creating course content with other teachers and how I’ve set up compensation (14:25) Setting the stage for today’s interview (17:09) Why and how Craig and Zach partnered to create their membership site (21:06) The 4-Hour Workweek mindset versus the community-based membership model (21:35) Bootstrapping and their early business models (24:35) Figuring out pricing with nothing to compare to (27:38) The challenge of communicating value in exclusivity (28:56) How Craig and Zach would change their approach to pricing if they were starting over (30:27) Who their audience is and how they provide value to their niche (33:18) How Craig and Zach’s offer has evolved (36:25) A favorite story of how their group impacted one of their members (39:11) How Zach quit his day job as their membership grew (42:53) Getting started with their site and figuring out best tools and software (46:21) Slack, “babies,” and focusing on the end goal (50:47) Is the paid version of Slack worth it? (53:00) How Craig and Zach make sure their membership never gets too big for its own good? (55:32) The pen name dilemma (1:03:41) Live events: how important are they? (1:07:19) What Craig and Zach do to prevent member churn and encourage community-building (1:10:35) Dealing with trolls and naysayers (1:15:40) Making partnerships work (1:18:43) Advice for new and aspiring course or membership creators (1:22:19) David’s questions about the appeal of membership to me (1:24:08) App development stories (plus an AI interruption) (1:31:25) A not-so-shocking reveal (1:34:36) Thinking about the challenges inherent to partnerships (1:38:26) How I handle trolling plus how David avoided impersonating Michael Scott (1:48:46) Finding the line between trolling and constructive criticism (1:50:14) Wrapping up That’s all for now, folks! See you on the next episode of The Online Course Show.   Links Offers and Tools: Bonjoro Free Trial ClickFunnels Free Trial Win of the Week Guest Links: Fraternity of Excellence Family Alpha Masculine by Design Resources and Recommendations: Chandler Corbin Tupelo Honey Cafe Pizza Mind Upwork Fiverr Paid Memberships Pro Slack Zoom Episode 95 David's video about running Jacques’ Courses: The Online Course Accelerator Next Level Courses Piano in 21 Days David’s Courses: Wellness Program Expert

Among the many perks of being an online course creator, something that never ceases to delight me is how amazing the course creator community can be and how much we can all learn from each other! That’s why I’m loving my Next Level Courses group and the course creators who are there teaching in every niche imaginable. Today’s episode showcases a live Q&A with my Next Level Courses students. Every week we meet online and dig into all things online courses together. Some are new to the online course world, others have been doing this for some time But no matter where each member of the group is at, it’s awesome to be able to put our heads together and encourage each other to take things to the next level. “It’s not just for passive income… we genuinely want to help people.” - Jacques Hopkins In This Episode, We Talked About: (0:32) What makes today’s episode different (2:17) The premise behind my advice (2:46) Bringing on my first guest and regular Next Level Courses Q&A attendee, Kristi (4:19) Growth and transitions (8:46) What makes Kristi’s approach unique (10:37) How we initially connected and started working together (12:07) Thinking about how processes evolve (14:23) Priorities and scheduling (19:12) Kristi’s takeaways from a previous podcast episode (21:48) Bringing on my next guest, Renato, for questions about webinar engagement (27:48) Cleaning up email lists (30:14) Advice and questions for Renato (33:01) Implementing Profit First (34:58) Bringing on Andrew, and thoughts on how to pronounce a very common word from the online course world (36:10) How to improve storytelling and demonstrating value (41:16) Thoughts on Andrew’s webinar (42:59) What he’ll be working on next (44:08) Bringing on Liz for questions about showing social proof (50:47) How to frame the opportunity (56:24) Transitioning from in-person teaching to online community-building (58:04) Bringing on Matt to discuss evergreen funnels and cold traffic conversions (1:02:31) Evaluating ups and downs in sales (1:05:42) How important is consistency vs. flagship content on YouTube? (1:11:00) Building trust without revealing too much of the “secret sauce” early on (1:16:54) Wrapping up + why you shouldn’t procrastinate on signing up for Next Level Courses That’s all for now, folks! See you on the next episode of The Online Course Show.   Links Offers and Tools: Bonjoro Free Trial ClickFunnels Free Trial Win of the Week Books and Resources: Episode 31 Episode 148 Profit First Expert Secrets Jacques’ Courses: The Online Course Accelerator Next Level Courses Piano in 21 Days David’s Courses: Wellness Program Expert

What’s an acronym that strikes fear in the heart of just about anyone with an online presence? If you guessed SEO, you were right - and I definitely count myself among the many who are intimidated by the topic of search engine optimization! But today’s guest is Matthew Woodward, and he’s here to demystify SEO and share how online course creators can make smart SEO choices: no matter what stage of the online course business journey they are on. I learned a lot during our conversation, and I think you will, too! “If you build something that humans love, Google will usually love it as well.” - Matthew Woodward In This Episode, We Talked About: (0:42) Thoughts on busyness and what I’ve been working on (6:43) An update from David and why I don’t currently teach kids (8:30) Getting lighting audits (11:22) Where I’m at with platform decisions (12:25) David’s latest suggestion for my Facebook ads (16:44) The deeper meaning of Next Level Courses (20:32) Why I was interested in today’s guest pitch (22:03) Introducing Matthew and our topic of the day (24:15) How a new course creator should approach SEO (27:36) Different ways to handle the pros and cons of LearnDash (31:05) Should I use multiple subdomains? (33:46) Why WordPress is still the gold standard (35:34) Matthew’s recommended funnel resources for new course creators (38:52) How he handles his launches and similarities with my own funnel (41:21) Building good SEO - how complicated is it really? (43:47) What’s behind the smoke and mirrors of SEO strategy (45:08) Why load-time matters (48:12) Ranking for specific keywords (52:54) Tailoring content for SEO (54:59) What about other search engines besides Google? (58:04) The importance of link-building (1:02:00) A risk of incautious link-building (1:04:25) What do SEO agencies do? (1:07:27) Is Matthew against running ads? (1:08:43) How SEO evolves over time (1:12:31) Matthew’s course and who it’s for (1:15:00) His calls-to-action and scarcity (1:16:26) Thoughts on the power of observation (1:18:13) How get in touch with Matthew personally (1:19:19) David and I discuss takeaways from today’s interview (1:20:27) Is SEO addictive? (1:22:19) Developing quality content for SEO (1:24:47) Affiliates, Reddit, and top-ranking results for Piano In 21 Days (1:30:31) Will I ever do SEO fully in-house? (1:33:11) Our ever-evolving catchphrase (1:34:04) A shoutout for one of my youngest Next Level Courses members (1:36:14) Wrapping up That’s all for now, folks! See you on the next episode of The Online Course Show.   Links Offers and Tools: Bonjoro Free Trial ClickFunnels Free Trial Win of the Week Guest Links: Matthew’s website 90-Day SEO 6x Ways to Increase Website Speed How to Write Killer Website Content That Attracts People Podcast-Jacking for Links, Traffic, and Authority Link-Building Services: What You REALLY Need to Know Books and Resources: Make Time The Miracle Morning BuddyBoss LearnDash Master Fingerstyle Guitar Perfmatters Product Launch Formula Thrive Architect ULKU Logistics Jacques’ Courses: The Online Course Accelerator Next Level Courses Piano in 21 Days David’s Courses: Wellness Program Expert

We’re back with another “where are they now?” episode, this time with Jason Dion of Dion Training. Time flies: I interviewed Jason for the first time all the way back in episode 79! While many aspects of his business are still the same, he also has brought things forward in some very interesting (and successful!) ways. It was great to catch up with him and hear the latest about his online courses, the future of his business, and how he manages to stay on track while also working full-time overseas. “There is no magic pill for this online course thing… It’s about student success, over and over again.” - Jason Dion In This Episode, We Talked About: (0:39) Black eyes and thoughts on truthfulness (5:45) Something I realized while doing live training recently (6:43) Hitting a new income milestone and perspective on what it means (10:39) Working with Nick Loper of the Side Hustle Show to sponsor a series (13:30) The Win of the Week (15:47) Setting the stage for today’s interview (16:33) How Jason works full-time while juggling hugely successful courses (18:16) The big tipping point since our first interview (20:37) Student success and advertising (24:15) The power of automated referrals, or, is Jason crazy? (25:32) Branching out from Udemy (28:59) How having multiple offers works for Jason’s business on different platforms (33:27) His thoughts on competing with yourself on Udemy (34:45) Does the 80/20 principle work for Jason? (36:45) Platform pros and cons (42:12) Course community options on Thinkific (43:36) Platforms and their categories (48:45) My course platform holy grail and the problem with how companies like Apple handle apps (53:39) Jason’s recommendation for my online piano course (56:44) What a platform move looks like for Jason (1:00:16) How he runs a successful company while working full time (1:17:40) Why he’s planning on retiring in Puerto Rico (1:07:50) Talking teams and online business managers (OBM’s) (1:13:13) An important task Jason’s OBM now manages for him (1:15:16) The difference between OBM’s vs. VA’s (1:16:39) Unexpected aspects of having a part-time OBM (1:20:46) The importance of mindset and timing when hiring (1:23:20) Where we found our OBM’s and decided on the right candidates (1:26:44) Hiring a second VA and creating more accountability (1:29:13) Project management tools (1:35:42) How Jason profit-shares with his team (1:38:18) Is there anything else Jason needs to turn over to his team? (1:40:57) A mistake I made and why my OBM is going to help prevent me doing that again (1:41:39) Does Jason recommend people start online courses in more than one place? (1:44:39) Thoughts on success and misconceptions in the online course world (1:50:08) Changes to my podcast format (1:51:42) Jason’s advice for new and aspiring course creators (1:53:17) Thoughts from David on Jason’s interview (1:54:45) Would I advise people to stick with Udemy? (1:58:20) What platform am I leaning towards? (2:01:02) Why I want my own piano course app (2:02:49) If we could move anywhere, it would be… (2:05:16) Hiring my OBM (2:08:16) How my team is evolving (2:10:19) Our thoughts on Jason’s profit-sharing model (2:14:49) Getting the right people “on the bus.” (2:16:42) Wrapping up That’s all for now, folks! See you on the next episode of The Online Course Show.   Links Offers and Tools: Bonjoro Free Trial ClickFunnels Free Trial Win of the Week Guest Links: Jason’s Website: Dion Training Books and Resources: Episode 98 Episode 79 CoffeeZilla Snacks Daily Udemy Thinkific LearnDash Skillshare Lynda LinkedIn Learning Packt Publishing Vimeo Wistia LifterLMS TutorLMS Mighty Networks Teachable Kajabi onlinebusinessmanager.com Asana Slack Good to Great Jacques’ Courses: The Online Course Accelerator Next Level Courses Piano in 21 Days David’s Courses: Wellness Program Expert

For those of you who have been listening to the podcast for a while, you know that I’ve been on the hunt researching a ton of new platforms for the reboot of my online piano course. On today’s episode, I interviewed with Chris Benetti from Members Pro - one of these many platforms I’ve been looking into. Chris and I had a great chat about what it takes to create a new online course-focused platform, how to ensure student success, the pain of creating Apple apps, and much more. “If you don’t have people coming through your course and having success, you don’t really have a proper business… Do everything you can help people to have success with your programs and to create raving fans with what you’ve built for them.” -Chris Benetti In This Episode, We Talked About: (0:42) What I’m excited about for rebooting vs. relaunching (2:16) How my live bootcamp is going (3:55) Thoughts from David on his friend’s course journey (8:04) Will we watch The Social Dilemma? (9:07) Staying on the lookout for and inspiration best practices (12:40) The Win of the Week and our thoughts (20:12) How you can submit your own Win of the Week (20:58) Setting the stage for today’s video (24:07) Chris’s entry into the online course world (28:59) Why Chris’s focus resonates with me (31:51) Talking ClickFunnels cons and my journey (33:53) Why Chris created Members Pro (35:19) Comparing Members Pro to other platforms (38:11) What Members Pro is working on now (43:31) Future features vs. current selling points (46:03) Customizable course themes (47:32) Platform self-promotion and my dream app wishlist (49:03) When Members Pro is rolling out new features (52:11) Chris’s thoughts on apps with Apple integration vs. Google (58:51) How Chris and his business partner started working together (1:02:43) His advice for new and aspiring course creators (1:04:12) Where to find Chris online (1:05:29) Thoughts on online course fulfillment (1:07:07) David’s thoughts on affiliate opportunities (1:08:43) Community and platforms (1:11:17) Our perspectives on gamification (1:13:30) The obstacles to selling an app through Apple (1:15:32) Wrapping up That’s all for now, folks! See you on the next episode of The Online Course Show.   Links Offers and Tools: Bonjoro Free Trial ClickFunnels Free Trial Guest Links: Chris’s Website Members Pro Members Pro Roadmap Books and Resources: Cristers Media Tim Shields interview Circle Honeycommb Jacques’ Courses: The Online Course Accelerator Next Level Courses Piano in 21 Days David’s Courses: Wellness Program Expert

If you know anything about how I run my online course business, you know I love automation, segmentation, and all the behind-the-scenes processes that lead to having a successful online course. Brennan Dunn is a master of these topics and has done extremely well in his niche, so I’ve been looking forward to interviewing him. But Brennan is not a one-trick pony: in his “spare time” he has a successful Saas business and flies planes for fun! It was great to get his perspective on what works for him, how he juggles different passions, and hear his advice for new and aspiring course creators. “The best courses are reactions to what people are already telling you.” - Brennan Dunn In This Episode, We Talked About: (0:40) Thoughts on an honor my business recently received + how I got my face on TV (4:15) How things are going with my new hire (6:32) Is David selling my piano course? And what my affiliate structure looks like (10:00) The backstory for today’s interview (12:57) Flying vs. working on Brennan’s online course business (15:10) Where Brennan spends most of his time (18:15) Getting off the hamster wheel while keeping things running smoothly (21:46) Comparing funnel strategies (25:34) How Brennan creates text-based courses (26:46) His very first course sale (29:39) Do older models still work? (31:26) How I heard about Brennan and Right Message (32:44) Who is a good fit for RightMessage? (43:06) The importance of split-testing for targeted marketing (48:49) Brennan’s thoughts on SaaS businesses versus online courses (52:33) Lifestyle considerations (54:46) How Brennan handles using brand names in his course names (57:52) Platforms and tools he loves (59:56) Community building for online courses (1:02:22) Brennan’s advice for new and aspiring course creators (1:06:24) Why live course components are underrated (1:08:00) Where to find Brennan and his products (1:08:53) David and I discuss Brennan’s story (1:10:02) Improving systems and planning for “2nd resolution season” (1:14:06) Creating scarcity (1:15:34) Thoughts on pivoting and recognizing needs (1:19:10) Audience segmentation and personalization (1:23:34) Why I refuse to get into SaaS products (1:26:26) Wrapping up That’s all for now, folks! See you on the next episode of The Online Course Show.   Links Offers and Tools: Bonjoro Free Trial ClickFunnels Free Trial Deadline Funnel Trial Guest Links: Brennan’s Website Right Message Books and Resources: Sensei WooCommerce ConvertKit Drip Tim Ferris interview with Guy Raz Elise Darma’s Instagram Course Nathan Rice’s AirBnB Course Khalid Hamada Facebook Marketing School Jacques’ Courses: The Online Course Accelerator Next Level Courses Piano in 21 Days David’s Courses: Wellness Program Expertrategic Coach

If you’re an online course creator, you know that hearing from successful students about their progress is one of the best feelings in the world! Today’s interview wasn’t originally destined for this show, but talking to my former student Ken Richard reminded me how powerful it is to hear when your resources have made an impact on someone’s life. At the end of the day, student success is the most important goal of any online course, so I hope you feel inspired by what you hear today. ;) “With all the noise in our lives, you just don’t know what you can do… Push yourself. If it’s uncomfortable, that’s where you’ve got to go.” - Ken Richard In This Episode, We Talked About: (0:45) Why today’s episode is different (1:24) Thoughts from David on helping people go further and trying new ways of doing things (9:48) Setting the stage for today’s conversation (11:54) The experience that inspired Ken to get into piano (16:54) Why he chose Piano In 21 Days (23:02) Where to find Ken’s original music and what his endgame is (26:33) The highlight of his piano journey so far (30:52) Unlocking potential and why it doesn’t have to be so hard (36:09) The power of being able to share your passion (40:07) How Ken got over his reluctance to start composing (43:50) Learning from different teachers and branching out (48:12) Is it possible to learn piano so quickly? (51:03) Our thoughts on Ken’s journey (52:51) Why David thinks I should share certain success stories even more (54:34) Living the lives we want to live (56:48) The “bomb and gauge” technique (59:06) Favorite concert experiences (1:01:38) Do we have famous doppelgangers? (1:03:10) Composition vs. improvisation (1:06:14) Wrapping up (1:08:59) A song from Ken That’s all for now, folks! See you on the next episode of The Online Course Show.   Links Offers and Tools: Bonjoro Free Trial ClickFunnels Free Trial Guest Links: Ken’s Website Books and Resources: Episode 119 Cool Tone Records Jacques’ Courses: The Online Course Accelerator Next Level Courses Piano in 21 Days David’s Courses: Wellness Program Expert Strategic Coach

If you’ve been listening to this podcast for a while, you know that my first online course was not an instant success. That’s why I love hearing from other course creators about the highs and lows of their own online course journeys. Guest Kate Kordsmeier has a fascinating tale of successful blogging, making money, losing money, and turning it all around. “What I liked about courses was that it was a way to reach many more people, i.e. have a bigger impact but without having to do more work. I was trying to find something that was a little bit more scaleable, a little bit more passive...” - Kate Kordsmeier In This Episode, We Talked About: (0:47) Catching up with David on getting traction with your content (2:49) Reflecting on who’s inspired us and how co-hosting is going (5:01) Why David’s learning about standup comedy (7:46) What I’ve been working on lately (9:06) Celebrating progress with my Next Level Course students (11:23) Introducing Kate and how she got started in online courses (14:21) Why online courses instead of a book or a blog post? (18:09) Going beyond basic content (19:59) How Kate handles video coaching (25:30) What about students who aren’t on social media? (29:00) Value propositions + success stories (34:11) How Kate has structured her course content (35:32) Taking the course from idea to finished product (38:39) Learning from a low point (43:18) How Kate’s launch style has evolved (44:59) Does passive income really exist? (48:55) How the pandemic has affected her family and business (54:39) Transitioning into an evergreen marketing model (1:00:41) My suggestions for how Kate could relaunch to people on her list (1:08:44) Conversion rates and traffic sources (1:11:06) Making decisions based on niche and personality (1:19:01) Kate’s favorite tools and platforms (1:28:31) Advice for new and aspiring course creators (1:30:52) David and I discuss the launch rollercoaster (1:34:14) Recent changes in my business (1:42:08) The value of analytics (1:44:07) Wrapping up That’s all for now, folks! See you on the next episode of The Online Course Show.   Links Offers and Tools: Bonjoro Free Trial ClickFunnels Free Trial Active Campaign Guest Links: Kate’s Website Books and Resources: MoveU Owen Video Blog to Biz Hive Digital Course Academy Mariah Coz Rocket Fuel The Obstacle is the Way Jacques’ Courses: The Online Course Accelerator Next Level Courses Piano in 21 Days David’s Courses: Wellness Program Expertrategic Coach

Hands down, today’s guest has been the most-requested by my podcast listeners for quite some time. Way back when I first started The Online Course Show, Nate Dodson joined me each week as co-host and new course creator. The rest is history! And at long last here we are with an update of where Nate’s at with his course business, what’s changed for him (and what hasn’t), plus a fun bonus story that may call into question the definition of “takeout.” “There was a huge demand for this, and no one was filling the demand. I jumped right in… If you’re going to get started in an online business, being smart about it, doing some research, and finding areas of unfulfilled demand will make it feel more like luck.” - Nate Dodson In This Episode, We Talked About: (0:43) Bringing back a much-requested guest to the show (1:50) Milestones and different ways of measuring success (8:50) How Nate discovered his niche and how it works (10:23) Radical personal finance and failing to succeed (15:43) Has having a profitable business changed Nate’s lifestyle? (17:44) A question from David’s wife (19:20) Ideas vs. money (21:53) A typical week for Nate now that his business is mostly automated (24:16) Accountability and maintenance (25:38) Perks of having an online business (27:24) Considerations about hiring employees vs. contractors (29:52) Success stories from Nate’s students (32:10) Exciting moments in the online course journey (33:48) How Nate and I met (35:36) Burning out and looking to the future (41:30) Are physical product offerings worth it? (43:06) (Not so) embarrassing stories from early on (46:38) Favorite podcast recommendations (47:37) Nate’s advice for new and aspiring course creators (50:37) Thoughts on passive income (53:46) His favorite software and tools (54:40) Motivation and mentorship (56:55) Wrapping up That’s all for now, folks! See you on the next episode of The Online Course Show.   Links Offers and Tools: Bonjoro Free Trial ClickFunnels Free Trial Active Campaign Guest Links: Nate’s Course: Microgreens Farmer Books and Resources: Goodbye Things Who Expert Secrets Blue Ocean Strategy Strategic Coach Podcasts: Joe Rogan Mind of George Think Like a CEO Making Sense Good Ol’ Grateful Deadcast Jacques’ Courses: The Online Course Accelerator Next Level Courses Piano in 21 Days David’s Courses: Wellness Program Expertrategic Coach

Just like anything else in life, not everyone in the online course community is the same or does things the same way. And that’s a good thing, because it means I get to interview other course creators and find how they’ve achieved success - even if their approach differs in some ways than mine. Today’s guest Tim Shields is the perfect example of this, and we had a great discussion about what works for him and his business. “You have to take the first step… Stop dreaming and start taking action.” - Tim Shields This episode is chock-full of interesting tidbits and inspiring stories, so I hope you enjoy tuning in! In This Episode, We Talked About: (0:37) Upgrading and re-recording my course content (2:43) Will my course always be on ClickFunnels? (3:58) Expanding my team (9:14) Backstory for today’s interview (10:22) The Two Comma Club and what it means to Tim (13:24) Digital vs. physical products (16:35) How Tim found his passion and why he didn’t start sooner (20:02) His “origin story” (24:04) Where Tim’s audience came from (26:39) How his lead magnet works (28:31) The secret of successful masterclasses (32:20) Transformation vs. information (35:20) Communicating the concept of why his course is different (37:09) Success stories from Tim’s students (41: 23) Why we initially connected (42:26) The value of awarding students for their achievements (51:26) Incentives and tie-ins (53:07) How Tim handles his student community (52:10) Webinar systems and strategies (1:04:38) Tim’s thoughts on selling additional products beyond an online course (1:05:35) An aside on synergy and Tim’s work schedule (1:06:29) Selling something new with tangible scarcity (1:08:41) The circle of focus (1:11:39) Tim’s course offerings with multiple launch funnels (1:17:23) The importance of testing ideas (1:20:11) Tim’s right-hand man for video editing and how he uses that video content (1:21:57) His wife’s role in his work (1:23:39) The beauty of outsourcing after bootstrapping early on (1:25:42) Thinking about platforms, strategies, and ads (1:33:19) Strengths and weaknesses of popular platforms (1:38:47) Tim’s love/hate relationship with his email management software (1:41:35) His thoughts on taking action on dreams (1:45:33) David and I discuss Tim’s rapid success and The Two Comma Club (1:49:35) The importance of reaching out and building credibility (1:52:03) Thinking about how YouTube benefits different people differently (1:55:45) How my advice to course creators is evolving (1:57:56) The difference between information and transformation (2:01:51) Do music skills give people an edge in attracting the opposite sex (2:04:40) Thinking about how to help my students showcase their progress (2:06:26) Discussing Tim’s “webinar sandwich” and work schedule (2:08:46) Why I haven’t focused on hiring people who live near me (2:11:11) Simplicity and freebies (2:17:05) Re-recording and re-evaluating as I prepare for a re-launch (2:17:13) Wrapping up That’s all for now, folks! See you on the next episode of The Online Course Show. Links Bonjoro Free Trial ClickFunnels Free Trial Tim Shield’s website Kajabi Fivver Active Campaign The Online Course Guy Jacques’ Courses: The Online Course Accelerator Next Level Courses Piano in 21 Days David’s Course - Wellness Program Expert