

Maintainable
Robby Russell
Do you feel like you're hitting a wall with your existing software projects? Are you curious to hear how other people are navigating this? You're not alone.
On the Maintainable Software Podcast, Robby speaks with seasoned practitioners who have overcome the technical and cultural problems often associated with software development.
Our guests will share stories in each episode and outline tangible, real-world approaches to software challenges. In turn, you'll uncover new ways of thinking about how to improve your software project's maintainability.
On the Maintainable Software Podcast, Robby speaks with seasoned practitioners who have overcome the technical and cultural problems often associated with software development.
Our guests will share stories in each episode and outline tangible, real-world approaches to software challenges. In turn, you'll uncover new ways of thinking about how to improve your software project's maintainability.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Feb 20, 2024 • 59min
Chad Fowler - How Small Can We Make This Problem
Robby has a candid chat with Chad Fowler, the General Partner & CTO at BlueYard Capital. They delve into the nuances of software maintenance, the evolution and challenges of managing software projects, and insights from Chad's tenure as CTO of Wunderlist. They discuss the importance of building software in small, manageable pieces to facilitate easy updates or replacements, the counterintuitive perspective on unit testing's impact on maintainability, and strategies for keeping software up-to-date by redeploying to new platforms.Additionally, Chad shares his thoughts on the current industry layoff trends, emphasizing the value of adaptability and resilience. The conversation also touches on the relevance of mentoring in the tech industry and the potential implications of AI and large language models on software engineering careers. Chad's philosophy on software development, emphasizing pragmatism, adaptability, and the continuous reevaluation of problems to make them smaller and more manageable, permeates the discussion.Book Recommendations:The E-myth Revisited by Michael E. GerberZen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M. PirsigHelpful Links:WunderlistThe Passionate Programmer by Chad FowlerChad on X/TwitterChad on LinkedInThe Privacy PodcastBlueYard CapitalThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks. It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications. Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!
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Feb 13, 2024 • 1h 3min
John Nunemaker - How Scary Is This Change?
Guest John Nunemaker discusses the importance of keeping software dependencies up to date, exploring topics such as balancing architecture patterns, using tools like Dependabot for efficient dependency management, and evaluating risks associated with changes. He also provides insights into release strategies for open source libraries and navigating challenges with legacy code. The episode concludes with a discussion on personal satisfaction in project selection and effectively marketing open source projects.

Feb 6, 2024 • 40min
Jemma Issroff - Running the Parser in the Rain
Jemma Issroff, Senior Software Engineer, speaker and author of the book, “Ruby Garbage Collection in Under Two Hours”, discusses maintaining software in C versus Ruby and their upcoming transition to artificial intelligence. They also bond over running in the rain and share experiences at Recurse, a software programmers retreat. The episode blends technical expertise with personal anecdotes for an inspiring and informative conversation.

Jan 30, 2024 • 39min
Jeanine Soterwood - Helping Clients Understand Maintenance Work
Robby has a chat with the Software Development Team Lead at Thoughtbot, Jeanine Soterwood. Unraveling the intricacies of Ruby on Rails, they explore the often overlooked importance of keeping apps up-to-date and maintaining a robust test suite. The conversation weaves through the delicate balance between enticing features and the long-term needs of software maintenance, shedding light on the aspects clients may not find thrilling.Drawing from their experiences in the consulting realm, Robby and Jeanine share valuable insights on being a commendable guest in another team's code base. From deciphering a client's process and team culture to navigating the challenge of conveying that software is an ever-evolving entity, the episode unfolds with practical tips. The duo advocates for proposing experiments over permanent decisions, emphasizing the art of gaining buy-in. Additionally, they tackle the nuances of pairing with junior developers and unravel Jeanine's journey of embracing non-DRY tests. Wrapping up with a deep dive into managing a technical debt backlog and Jeanine's impactful work on Ruby for Good projects, this episode will be a treasure trove for any software engineer who is navigating the elusive path of effective project maintenance.Book Recommendations:A Little Life by Hanya YanagiharaHelpful Links:Jeanine on LinkedInThougthbotThe Case for WET TestsThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks. It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications. Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!
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Jan 23, 2024 • 54min
Andrew Atkinson - Maintainable... Databases?
Join Robby as he talks to independent consultant and author, Andrew Atkinson, about the importance of change management in software development, insights on maintaining a well-maintained database, navigating legacy code bases, challenges of removing unused features, transitioning to independent consulting, and career growth in software development.

Jan 16, 2024 • 44min
Jimmy Koppel - Aspects of Good Code
Robby engages in a captivating conversation with the CEO at Mirdin and UpToSpeed, Jimmy Koppel. They delve into the transformative power of evolvable code, shedding light on its myriad benefits and how it contributes to an enriching coding experience. Drawing inspiration from Jimmy's insightful blog post, "The 11 Aspects of Good Code," the discussion unfolds to explore the external qualities of code and the profound impact of crafting code that is not just functional, but a joy to work with. Jimmy shares his vision for UpToSpeed, a platform aiming to revolutionize the onboarding process for software engineers through the strategic use of AI tools, offering a glimpse into the future of seamless integration for new team members. From the nuances of recovering the programmer's intent through well-crafted code to intriguing references to "Zen and the Art of Motorcycles," this episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about the art and science of coding. Unlock the secrets of creating code that not only meets technical requirements but also enhances the human experience of programming. Discover the unique blend of philosophy and practicality as Jimmy and Robby explore the fascinating world of code evolution, drawing on diverse insights from literature, AI, and the shared wisdom of seasoned developers. Whether you're a coding enthusiast, a seasoned developer, or someone intrigued by the intersection of technology and human expression, this episode promises to be an engaging journey through the nuances of software craftsmanship and the quest for code that stands the test of time. Tune in to gain a fresh perspective on the intricate dance between programmers and their creations, and learn how the pursuit of excellence in coding can truly be a pleasurable and rewarding endeavor.Book Recommendations:Make It StickHow Learning WorksHelpful Links:The 11 Aspects of Good CodeThe Secret History of Information Hiding by David ParnasThe Advanced Software Design Course by MirdinJimmy's BlogJimmy’s WebsiteThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks. It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications. Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!
Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

Jan 9, 2024 • 1h 2min
Hila Fish - Maintainable Infrastructure Code, Culture, and Documentation
Robby has a chat with Senior DevOps Engineer, Hila Fish. They start off by discussing the key characteristics of maintainable infrastructure code. Hila shared insights on providing software engineering teams with the necessary space for exploration while maintaining essential guardrails to ensure the stability of production environments. The conversation also touched upon the significance of offering engineers useful metrics and dashboards for measuring load and stress tests. Robby and Hila reminisced about the evolution of roles like sysadmins and DBAs over the decades, highlighting the transformative journey of infrastructure management.A focal point of the episode was Hila's experience leading a large migration project from Bitbucket Cloud to a self-hosted Gitlab within a tight six-week timeframe. She emphasized the importance of rigorous testing in both development and production environments, effective communication with stakeholders and the team, and other critical aspects of successful project management. The discussion extended to personal and professional development, with Hila underlining the importance of regularly evaluating one's values against those of the employer and the value of self-retrospectives. The challenges in hiring for potential versus expertise in an industry that demands a combination of both were explored. The episode also featured insights into DevOpsDays TLV, Hila's involvement in tech events, and valuable tips for overcoming the initial fear of speaking at such events, accompanied by her own unconventional journey to delivering her first talk. It’s going to be an interesting episode, so don’t miss out.Helpful Links:Hila on LinkedInOpen-Source - Open ChoiceTechnical Documentation - How Can I Write Them Better and Why Should I Care? By Hila FishTerraformHelmGitLabBitbucketDBAsDevOpsDays TLVThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks. It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications. Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!
Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

Nov 21, 2023 • 47min
Jacob Aronoff - At Least One Person Who Cares To See It Through
Robby has a chat with Staff Software Engineer at Lightstep from ServiceNow, Jacob Aronoff. Their conversation delves into the vital signs of a thriving open source software project. They unpack the characteristics of well-maintained open source endeavors, emphasizing the importance of a passionate community behind the project, rather than misleading indicators like GitHub stars. They discuss the nuances of evaluating a project's health through performance metrics, suggesting that a more holistic view that includes the scrutiny of open issues can provide better insights into the project's robustness and responsiveness to community needs. Furthermore, their discussion highlights a critical, yet often overlooked, aspect of open source software: the project's own dependencies. Jacob argues that understanding these dependencies is crucial before adopting an open source solution, as it could have far-reaching implications on the stability and security of one's own project. They also take a deep dive into the organizational dynamics of the OpenTelemetry community, examining its structured approach to scaling and sustaining the project over time. Their discussion then transitions into the philosophical debate of balancing between the extremes of premature abstraction and delivering a fully opinionated software project. Jacob shares his penchant for “building in the open”, advocating for transparency and community involvement in the development process. He provides valuable advice for both newcomers looking to contribute to open source projects and maintainers seeking to attract new talent. In a personal touch, he extends his gratitude to Robby for creating Oh My Zsh, sharing his own journey in developing a custom theme for it. Moreover, Jacob expresses his preference for pure functional languages, hinting at the broader discussion around programming paradigms and their influence on open source software development. Stay tuned for that and more!Book Recommendations:Killers of the Flower Moon By David Grann and The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy By Douglas AdamsHelpful Links:Jacob on LinkedInLightstep from ServiceNowJaronoff97 on GitHubJacob's WebsiteJacob on TwitterThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks. It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications. Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!
Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

Nov 14, 2023 • 42min
Oliver Drotbohm - Modulithic Applications
Oliver Drotbohm, a Staff 2 Engineer at VMware, discusses the pillars of maintainable software: understandability and modifiability. They analyze the metaphor of technical debt and the importance of clear documentation in architecture design decisions. They delve into the strategic use of microservices and introduce the Modulithic project for Java Spring. Oliver gives a sneak peek of his book, 'Modulithic Applications with Spring,' and shares the challenges of writing technical literature in a constantly evolving industry.

Nov 7, 2023 • 41min
Colin Campbell - The Daily Habits of Effective Engineers
Robby has a chat with Colin Campbell, the Director of Engineering at Tucows. Colin delves into the professional ethos of software development, emphasizing that the caliber of an engineer’s work is a reflection of their daily habits. He stressed the importance of humility for software engineers, arguing that it is crucial for continuous improvement and effective teamwork. He also talked about the strategic approach of doing nothing during Sprint Zero, suggesting that thorough planning and groundwork are essential before diving into actual code deployment.The conversation transitions to the practical aspects of the craft, sharing insights from his experience of refactoring the OpenSRS platform at Tucows. Colin expresses a strong stance against total rewrites of systems, except when transitioning to new platforms, advocating for the incremental and strategic improvements using the Strangler Fig pattern. He also describes the satisfaction derived from identifying and rectifying “code smells” through refactoring, underscoring this practice as a source of professional fulfillment. Moreover, he provides a glimpse into the life of platform engineers, detailing the intricacies of supporting application developers and the necessity of being decisively focused when addressing specific programming tasks, hence being “ruthless” to the ticket at hand to ensure quality and efficiency. For that and so much more, tune in to the episode on your favorite podcast platform.Book Recommendations:The Creative Act By Rick RubinHelpful Links:Colin on LinkedInhttps://www.tucows.com/https://tucowsdomains.com/https://opensrs.com/https://martinfowler.com/bliki/StranglerFigApplication.htmlThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks. It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications. Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsOvercastSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.
Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.