HIListically Speaking with Hilary Russo

The echo of the past can be filled with uncertainties, especially for those touched by adoption. Award-winning author Julie McGue, a twin adoptee bravely bares her soul in her quest for identity within her richly blended family. Our conversation explores the topic of closed adoption, and highlights not only the obstacles faced by those denied access to their biological lineage and medical history, but also the universal longing to deeply understand our roots. From the insecurities of adoptive parents to the fear of rejection from birth parents, we travel the rocky road adoptees commonly face. But also, the transformative power of community and storytelling that can serve as a channel for the shared human experience that heals and shapes our lives. ⁣ ⁣ CHAPTERS/KEY MOMENTS⁣ 00:00 Intro ⁣ 04:38  Discovering Family History and DNA ⁣ 08:40 Navigating Family and Identity Struggles ⁣ 11:13 Reunion and Discovery⁣ 17:01  Adoption and Loss⁣ 19:15  Community Support  ⁣ 32:54 Ancestral Exploration and Healing  ⁣ 34:35 The Power of Storytelling⁣ 36:25  Rapid Fire Game⁣ 38:05 Julie’s final thoughts⁣ 39:45 Hilary’s closing ⁣ CONNECT WITH JULIE MCGUE⁣ https://www.juliemcgueauthor.com ⁣ www.facebook.com/juliemcguewrites⁣ www.instagram.com/julieryanmcgue⁣ www.linkedin.com/in/julie-mcgue-a246b841⁣ ⁣ JULIE’S BOOKS ON AMAZON⁣ ⁣”Twice a Daughter: A Search for Identity, Family, and Belonging” and “Belonging Matters: Conversations on Adoption, Family, and Kinship”⁣ ⁣ LEARN MORE ABOUT HAVENING WITH HILARY⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/havening⁣ ⁣RECEIVE THE BRAIN CANDY NEWSLETTER https://hilaryrusso.com/braincandy CONNECT WITH HILARY⁣ https://www.instagram.com/hilaryrusso⁣ ⁣https://www.youtube.com/hilaryrusso⁣  https://www.facebook.com/hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣Music by Lipbone Redding https://lipbone.com/⁣ ⁣ ⁣ EPISODE TRANSCRIPT ⁣ (Full Transcript https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣)⁣ ⁣ 00:08 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ This is the day that she always feared would happen. And all of a sudden, here it is, it's happening, and she didn't show her best self. Did she come around? Yes, she came around, but it was a tricky mother-daughter conflict. We were adults, so we did work our best at re-encouraging everyone that the love was there. ⁣ ⁣ 00:31 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ We hear a lot of ups and downs when it comes to adoption, but one thing if you are not an adoptee or you're not even connected to the adoption community, a lot of questions come up about belonging, identity, how to make sure you know everything about your health and well-being and I have not covered this topic on HIListically Speaking before and I find this to be something that is extremely important for us to talk about whether you know somebody or you are an adoptee or you have adopted a child and I think one person that is a perfect guest to have on the show is Julie McGue. She is an adoptee, she is also a twin, and she is someone that did not seek out information about her adoption until later in life. And, Julie, this is a topic that I think does need more discussion, and I'm so glad you're here to share your experiences and your story. So thanks for being here. Thank you, yeah, oh. ⁣ ⁣ 01:41⁣ Was Julie adopted together with her sibling? Were they adopted separately, and how the relationship with your sibling and the family really was able to grow and prosper and just create that sense of belonging and identity? Can we go into that first? Oh, sure, I'd be happy to. ⁣ ⁣ 02:01 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ So my twin sister and I were adopted together through Catholic Charities and their policy was always to keep multiple birth siblings together. So right off the bat, my birth mom knew that if she had more than one child which was definitely something that ran in her family that her daughters or her kids would stay together, so that was important to her. One of the things that's interesting about being a twin, especially if you're adopted is one of the things that adoptees often wonder about is who do I look like, who do I take after? And so that sense of belonging is a big question for adoptees. From the very beginning I never had to look understand who I look like. I always looked like my sister. To be raised with a full sibling is a real blessing for any adopted person. So a lot of good things came out of being adopted with my sister. ⁣ ⁣ 03:12⁣ My parents also adopted a boy two years after my sister and I, and how often happens, they were able to have three biological children after all of us. So I grew up in this big Irish Catholic blended family of three adoptees and three biological kids. To my parents' credit, I don't think I could tell any difference, but how they treated any one of us. Everybody had the same rewards, the same punishments. They were pretty strict and they were very clear about how much they loved us and how much they wanted this family that they built through adoption and natural childbirth. ⁣ ⁣ 03:59⁣ So I waited until I was 48 years old to do any research about my adoption. It was closed. Closed means that the birth parents' identities are disguised or hidden, and it also allows adoptive parents to not have that co-parenting situation that sometimes happens with open adoption. But unfortunately, what it does is it doesn't allow an adoptee to have any sense of their identity, from where they came from, who they were before adoption was the plan made for them. ⁣ ⁣ 04:38⁣ So, even though I had this twin sister and I knew I belonged to her and I certainly felt belonging in my family, I had no idea. Was I really Catholic? Was I really Irish? What else did I not know? And then I had this breast biopsy at 48 and my husband insisted that I get at family history if I could. I have three daughters. All of that affected them, and so my first phone call was to my twin sister and it said you know, what do you think? And she said absolutely, I support you completely. It became my journey, my story, but she was involved every step of the way, every decision that we had to make. She and I talked about it. ⁣ ⁣ 05:29 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ So that is a lot. That is a lot later in life to question your family history, knowing that you came from a nurturing, loving family, had a sibling who looked just like you that you can share that experience with, in addition to another sibling who was also adopted. Was there ever, even earlier in life, a desire to want to find out more about your birth mother and your lineage, your past, your DNA? We're doing so many of these DNA tests now. Did that exist? ⁣ ⁣ 06:04 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Yes, that did exist and this is something that adoptees talk about a lot, that we have a lot of fantasies with lack of information. Like anybody, you kind of make up your own story in your head. You know, brene Brown talks about that a lot in her books the stories we make up in our heads to make us feel better about something that just happened. So my sister and I decided when we were teenagers our birth parents must have been teenagers and we decided that maybe he was the star football player and maybe she was the head cheerleader and that they, they were passionate and they wanted to go to college. And this just wasn't what you know. They wanted to do was get married and raise kids. So that appeased us for a while. There also was in the back of my mind and my sister's mind that, you know, maybe it was something else, maybe it was two were too many, maybe that was the reason why we were placed for adoption. So there were a lot of things to think about when you know that the gatekeepers are going to keep you from accessing everything. You just stuck it in a little drawer and every once in a while you take it out are going to keep you from accessing everything. You just stuff it in a little drawer and every once in a while you take it out and you look at it and then you put it back in. What ended up happening? Timing was everything with this. ⁣ ⁣ 07:37⁣ I had the breast biopsy. ⁣ ⁣ 07:39⁣ Turns out I didn't have breast cancer, but the threat that it might be in my family line meant I was going to full steam ahead. I was ready to go, my sister was ready to help with it, and the state of Illinois had changed their policy, their law about adoption, meaning that any adoptee over a certain age could access the original birth record. So I accessed my original birth record. Unfortunately, the search agency I turned it over to figured out that my birth mom had used an alias on the original birth record perfectly legal in 1959 to falsify a public record like that sounding to me, and also perfectly legal to not include the birth father's name. He didn't sign off on his parental rights, which is not something that happens today. ⁣ ⁣ 08:40⁣ So we were kind of stuck and at the same time that we're struggling with getting the search going, my adoptive mom was not happy with me. She really feared that she was going to be set aside as our mother and I had to work really hard and so did my, to prove to her that our bond was our bond. She had raised us, and that was a tricky thing. I'm battling health, I'm battling this search and I'm also having to be really careful with my adoptive mom. So there were a lot of issues at play. ⁣ ⁣ 09:25 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And I imagine that this could also bring, were a lot of issues at play, and I imagine that this could also bring up the thought of loss and grief and grief, before grief even happens. Your mom raised beautiful children and, while they might not be from her womb, there's kind of a spiritual womb that exists in families that are well-rounded and close and that can be a disconnection. So, having that conversation and her also knowing that there was another entity that was on Team Julie being your twin, I can only imagine how difficult that must have been for her. But my question is how did you have conversations with your brother about this as well? ⁣ ⁣ 10:04 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Oh, yes, definitely. ⁣ ⁣ 10:06 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Because here is another child in the family that was also adopted, and does it spark that curiosity for your brother as well to try to find his birth parents? ⁣ ⁣ 10:16 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ He was waiting and watching how my parents handled my sister and I going down this path when our search got rolling and I ended up getting involved with Catholic Charities because they had a social worker that did this kind of work. He came to every adoption support group meeting with me, paying attention, seeing how he was going to sort through this for himself. My sister and I definitely blazed the trail for him and by the time he got around to doing it, my parents realized this was going to be okay, the family was going to stay intact, that this was very important to all of us to understand who and where we came from and assimilate that into our personality. My mom did eventually come around. It is kind of a God wink moment, if you will, at the end of the book Twice a Daughter. ⁣ ⁣ 11:13⁣ I won't give everything away, but I do find a brother and a sister, a half brother and a half sister, so we share the same father. And when I do find my birth father, he doesn't want anything to do with my sister and I, but he does give me my medical history, which was what I was after, and he wouldn't comply with DNA analysis. So there was this question was he really the right guy and I really did feel like I needed DNA to know, because breast cancer ran in his family. My aunt had died of breast cancer before she was 40. So big breast cancer scary stuff. And my brother, my birth father, told my brother that you know, there's these two women. One of them is requesting all of this information and testing in and I'm not going to do it. And my brothers just picked up the phone and called me a cold call and, as we often do when we're talking with strangers, you know you're saying where did you go to school and how do you know? How do we, how would our paths have crossed ever? ⁣ ⁣ 12:26⁣ But came out that I knew his wife and that his wife and my family were intertwined. I won't give the whole secret away and because of that, because my adoptive parents and my adoptive family already knew my sister-in-law and her family, we all had probably met my brother and not known he was our brother. It fixed everything, Hilary. Instantly it was my mom realized oh, I know these people. This is great. Let's get together for family dinner. This is an amazing, beautiful moment. So the story, you know, it's ups and downs and it's one setback after another, but in the end there was this beautiful coming together of families that knew each other but didn't know they were biologically related. Do I ever get to meet my birth father? I don't he. He had a cardiac event and died before he changed his mind, so who knows if that would have ever happened. ⁣ ⁣ 13:46 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ It sounds like it is a Godwink moment and so fortunate to be able to have that and have some sense of closure. But not everyone gets that. ⁣ ⁣ 13:56 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ No, you did mention your book. ⁣ ⁣ 13:59 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I want to mention that real quick. Julie has three books. The third one's coming out next year, but the book we're referring to is Twice a Daughter, A Search for Identity, Family and Belonging, and then your second book is Belonging Matters. Those are the conversations of adoption, family and kinship, more like essays, and we'll put all of these links in the podcast notes. But just to go back to that, this is a wonderful turnout. Sounds like a perfect movie where everybody works out like a Hallmark movie in a way. ⁣ ⁣ 14:29⁣ But it's not always like that, Because when you think about and I just know this personally, not from being an adoptee or adopting, but having friends who have and sometimes you don't find the parents, sometimes you find family members and they don't really want to have a connection with you. ⁣ ⁣ 14:48 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Oh, it definitely. At my birth, mom did not want anything to do with us either, so it was not an easy road for her as far as being found. ⁣ ⁣ 14:58 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Right, but when it comes to health, do you think that there are laws and rules that need to be in place? And if that's the case, how would that change adoption for those who would consider putting their child up for adoption but don't want to be found? ⁣ ⁣ 15:16 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ The trend now in adoption is open adoption, which means that an adoptive parent enters into an adoption plan with the birth parents and they establish between them what the contact is going to be. Is it going to be just a yearly phone conversation or cards and letters? So it is between the birth parents and the adoptive parents, so that piece is so much better. When it comes to adoption, closed adoptions really did go out of vogue after 1980. Unfortunately, to your point about laws and statutes those of us that were adopted before 1980 during closed adoption it is up to each individual state to decide what their statutes are and to this point Illinois was one of the first eight states that changed open records acts. New York has changed their laws. There's probably about 15 out of 50 states that allow people my age to access their original birth records and research their family medical history. ⁣ ⁣ 16:32⁣ Unfortunately, dna can help some of us. It can't help all of us because the database is only as good as the people that subscribe to it. For example, my half-brother. That family never would have signed up for DNA. They don't want their specimens anywhere, so I would not have been able to find them through DNA. ⁣ ⁣ 17:01⁣ But some adoptees do the thing about birth parents and I want to emphasize the loss because you brought that up earlier. Loss is prevalent in the whole adoption triad. Adoptive parents most of them choose adoption as the way to build a family because they have infertility. So there's this insecurity about being able to have a biological child, a birth parents, birth mothers generally. It's a searing loss for them to have this situation present themselves where they're not going to parent their child and adoptees lose a sense of their family and their identity. ⁣ ⁣ 17:50⁣ One of the things that happened as a result of my search and my birth mom telling my sister and I I don't want anything to do with these girls I wasn't expecting that, Hilary, I thought I would be the lost girl found that she was waiting for me to find her. In fact, she didn't want to be found. She feared Her family had not. She'd never told her family. She feared my birth father coming back into her life. ⁣ ⁣ 18:22⁣ There was a lot of fear about that and I turned to Catholic Charities and got involved with their post adoption support group and it was one of the most meaningful things that came out of that adoption search because I came to understand the heartache that a birth mother goes through in coming to the decisions that they make and they work just as hard as adoptees do to make contact with their birth child sometimes with no success, sometimes with success and the adoptive parents. My adoptive mom was a little unusual in her lack of support because there were adoptive parents in our group that were supporting their child to find access to information that was important to them. It's a complicated situation for everybody and the people that are outside of the adoption world. I think sometimes there's some preconceived ideas about it. Adoptees like me present themselves until my middle age as being well-adjusted, and I write an essay about that in Belonging Matters. I did feel well-adjusted until I wasn't well-adjusted. I wanted that. ⁣ ⁣ 19:47 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ When was that? ⁣ ⁣ 19:49 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Well, I needed to know this family history and I couldn't have it, and it made me mad, and I think that you know there are a lot of angry adoptees out there. I think maybe that's some of the voices that people hear adoptees that aren't happy about their situation or they can't find, um, their relatives, um. But I felt like the, the support group that I I'm still involved in that, by the way, it's been 15 years, um, I think when you start listening to everybody else's perspective and you realize this isn't just about you, there's other things at play here. I think it allows us not only to heal personally but to have empathy for the other members in the triangle. ⁣ ⁣ 20:44 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, it's a sense of community, knowing that you're not alone, even if your story is different. It's giving you a sense of community and a collective of those who are going through something with that similar attachment. ⁣ ⁣ 20:57 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Yes, exactly. ⁣ ⁣ 20:59 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ So that anytime we can have a support and a community, and I imagine sometimes that's even a community of people who aren't connected to your story personally. Right, so that, and it's beautiful that you're still involved with that that the thought that is coming up to me is you were 48 when this awareness of I need to make some decisions and get some answers came to pass. But were there moments earlier where you really felt that pull? I mean, you mentioned making up the stories with your sister. Have you approached your parents, your adopted parents, prior to look into this earlier? ⁣ ⁣ 21:45⁣ And were you shut down? Were you supported? ⁣ ⁣ 21:55 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ you shut down? Were you supported? Really good question. So when I always knew that I was adopted. So that was a conversation my parents must have had with us when we were three or four or something, but every once in a while, around our birthday, they would sit us down in the living room and we'd have the adoption talk and they'd ask us you know, is there anything we can help you with? If you want to research your adoption, we'll help you, okay? So that conversation happened a handful of times when I was growing up. So my mother's reaction to me deciding to eventually search at 48 came out of nowhere and, as we talked about earlier, I know now that it came out of fear. She was worried that this woman was going to be a threat to her and in talking with the social worker about her reaction, she said you know, this is the day that she always feared would happen. Yeah, and she put it out of her mind. ⁣ ⁣ 23:00⁣ And all of a sudden, here it is, it's happening, and she didn't show her best self. Did she come around? Yes, she came around. Self Did she come around? Yes, she came around. But it was, you know, a tricky mother-daughter conflict. You know, we were adults, so we did work our best at just re-encouraging everyone that the love was there. ⁣ ⁣ 23:28 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I imagine that is a conversation that parents who have adopted children have with themselves quite regularly, because you especially when you mentioned the fact that there are different reasons why people adopt many times it might be because they can't have their own children and when you finally have that moment, you're like holding your breath, that first year especially, you know, will anything change? Is this going to become an adoption? If it started in foster care, then adoption so many different avenues that people can take and then, as the child gets older, they become so much a part of you. If it is that well-balanced family environment, you stop thinking about those things, but it's still there and there's that thought of loss before a loss even exists, right, so the brain tends to go there. We go to the negative. It's how we keep ourselves alive. So creating that nurturing reminder to your mom and letting her know that it's still something I'm sure she thought about every day in some way, you know. So what would be your advice? And before we even go there, I just want to mention again, if you did miss it the first time Julie is an adoptee. ⁣ ⁣ 24:48⁣ She's also a twin and she pursued finding her, adopted, her birth mother at 48 years old due to a potential health issue which we're happy that you're not dealing with. But then you have to think about your own family, like your children. You said you're a mother of three daughters, and then where do we go from there? So Julie has two wonderful books that are out very different and they kind of build on each other. I imagine you have Twice a Daughter A Search for Identity, family and Belonging, and then Belonging Matters Conversations on Adoption, family and Kinship, which is more of the essays, and then a new book coming out, which is another memoir in 2025, which is Twice the Family a memoir of love, loss and sisterhood. Really beautiful. Build on these three areas in your life, like, basically it's it's three stages in your life and building on that, was it, was it ever a thought, to become an author? Did you think about that? ⁣ ⁣ 25:50 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ I have always been a writer but a journaler, so more of a private writing experience. So when Twice a Daughter, the story of the adoption search was unfolding, I was keeping copious notes with my journals and the more I told people the story of what was happening. And you know, I can't find my birth mother. Now I found my birth mother and she doesn't want to know us and my mom doesn't want to help me with this and the health stuff was going on whole saga which was five years from beginning to end. People would say, gosh, I hope you're going to write a book about this. And I thought, wow, I wonder if I should. And so I started taking writing classes at the University of Chicago in downtown Chicago, and so the book came together in 2021. And right right after COVID. I mean, I was writing the book during COVID. ⁣ ⁣ 26:51 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Great time to write. ⁣ ⁣ 26:53 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Yeah, what's interesting about having written the story and one of the things I like to speak to is this is my story, yes, but every struggle that I went through in that process is the same thing that other adoptees go through. They struggle with support from their adoptive family. They struggle with connection to make with their birth parents, to make with their birth parents. Some adoptees find siblings and in the communities that I'm involved in, most of us have better relationships with our siblings the siblings that we find than we do with our birth parents, because they don't have any skin in the game. They don't have any baggage to bring to the relationship. They're excited. They have two new siblings that they didn't even know that they had and there are a lot of similarities and it's been a lot of fun getting to know my new brother and sister, although my brother always says I am not your new brother, I have always been your brother, so I find that very sweet. I've also one of the things that I've written essays about is getting to know beyond this immediate circle. ⁣ ⁣ 28:15⁣ My birth mom didn't want to tell her family. She wanted to keep us a secret. Her family, she wanted to keep us a secret, and this whole theme of secret keeping is, and shame is, at the very core of adoption from the closed adoption era. She had a hard time letting people know, because she had taken on society's shame and blame, viewed herself as a sinner, that she'd had this relationship outside of marriage and he wouldn't marry her, and it was something that she kept inside her identity. She didn't marry until she was in the late 40s. I don't have any other siblings from her, and so it has never been easy for her to introduce us to other people, and some of the things that she did to my sister and I not introducing us to family members and not inviting us to family reunions is foreign to me. My family that I grew up in was very loving. We had a lot of family gatherings, family reunions, big parties. ⁣ ⁣ 29:30⁣ I couldn't understand my birth mother's attitude about including my sister and I, and I have finally come to the place I talk about healing that. I realize it's not my problem, it's her problem. I can't fix her. I would love for her to be fixed so that she could find joy in this relationship with her two daughters that she never could claim. I mean, think about how hard that is on Mother's Day to pretend that you are not a mother, so I have a lot of empathy for her and her situation. That was not easy to come to. A lot of self-work on that front. I also have forgiveness for my birth father. He chose not to meet us. ⁣ ⁣ 30:21 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That was my first question. ⁣ ⁣ 30:22 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that, because yeah, he chose not to meet my sister and I, and that situation is complicated by a second marriage or whatever. I had a great dad growing up. My adoptive father was just amazing, everyone's favorite, and so I don't feel cheated. There is one thing I do feel cheated about. ⁣ ⁣ 30:46 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ What's that? ⁣ ⁣ 30:46 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ I found out that my sister and I are strongly Native American on both sides of my biological families. I was deprived of knowing that, identifying with a culture that was mine to know my adoptive parents it's not their fault, they were not given any of that information, so I didn't find out about this culture that I belonged to until I was in my 50s and it's a little late then. Also, because my birth father's name is not on my original birth record means that I can't claim to be a Chippewa, so denied on many fronts, and so I'm still figuring that out. Here I am 65 and I'm still trying to figure out. How do I feel about this identity piece? I want to belong in that culture, I want to understand it, but I am denied access. ⁣ ⁣ 31:53 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And I imagine that goes back to the feelings associated with ancestral and generational trauma. You never connected to it knowingly, but when? And this I think this goes back to the DNA testing, all these DNA testings that we're finding out about now and using, and people are finding families that exist all over the world. Being able to attach yourself to a lineage, a culture, a heritage that you had no clue about and wanting to learn more about it, but then for you not being able to actually claim it is, in some ways, another loss. ⁣ ⁣ 32:37 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Definitely is. ⁣ ⁣ 32:38 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, yeah. So do you still feel a connection to it, to where you want to explore, learning about it, even if you can't claim it? ⁣ ⁣ 32:53 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Absolutely. I have some trips planned to northern Minnesota to see where my birth father is from Minnesota, to see where my birth father's from. He grew up very poor on the outskirts of the Chippewa Reservation in northern Minnesota, and so I do have plans to visit those places. I did extensive genealogy and have a lot of family history that I find fascinating, and so do my children, which is kind of fun. Three of my kids played college sports and that was kind of a joke in my family because I didn't have access to where did that come from, and so we never really knew. And then we found out that our birth father played college football, and so some of these things have fallen into place, made sense. ⁣ ⁣ 33:47 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ It really is putting together a puzzle. Yeah, yeah, it really is. And how beautiful it is that you're experiencing all these things with now, your own children and your sister and family members that are curious. It's a curiosity, you know, but you know, with these traumas, as I often say and you mentioned as well, you find the healing there's a little bit of humor there's always you're confronted with your health turns into those triumphant moments, you know, and your mess is your message, basically. So what is next for Julie, in addition to the book that you have coming out, what is it that you are exploring now, in this stage of your life, with all of this beautiful knowledge? ⁣ ⁣ 34:35 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ One of the things I really like to do is write short essays. For example, I had I was on vacation. I came back I was dreading going out to the mailbox and getting the mail and paying the bills and doing all that and so reluctantly went out there and the mail hadn't come yet. I didn't realize that. But inside my mailbox was a little card. A child had drawn it and a message inside and it said you won the mailbox project, love Layla. ⁣ ⁣ 35:12⁣ So I just wrote an essay about this and it just caught me at the right moment. Here was an innocent child doing a random act of kindness, stuffed a little note in my mailbox and I came upon it right when I needed to. So that another little God wink moment. Going back to my comment earlier, I love finding these quirky little moments in life and building them out and writing a story about it. I write often about my grandsons and some of the fun, cute little stuff that they do. In fact I wrote an essay last fall that is in belonging matters, and I just recently found out it won a couple of different awards. ⁣ ⁣ 36:00⁣ So I think I think I'm done writing memoir, but I think I'm not done being a storyteller. ⁣ ⁣ 36:09 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That's great, yeah, we. Our stories are so much a part of our healing you know, and hopefully they'll touch, move and inspire someone else, right? What is it Brene says one day, your story will be somebody else's survival guide. ⁣ ⁣ 36:22 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Yes, oh yeah. So well said Something like that. ⁣ ⁣ 36:25 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, yeah. Well, I want to have a little fun with you for a moment before we close. Sure, I've been writing down some words that you've said and what I do is a rapid fire, which is basically word association. I'm going to throw out a word that you said and you just come back as fast as you can with one word that associates with that one. What comes to mind first. Okay, Okay. All right, here we go. Ad Self Heritage. ⁣ ⁣ 37:05 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Ancestry, family, belonging Community, neighbors. Author Writer Loss. Writer Loss. ⁣ ⁣ 37:27 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Grief DNA. ⁣ ⁣ 37:30 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Biology Support Community. ⁣   37:39 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Beautiful and we do need community. We really do, and this big part of what this show is about is bringing people together, you know, to find those trauma, to triumph moments and know that even if their stories are different, there's a connection in some way. So I appreciate you sharing your story and do you have any final thoughts that you want to share with listeners and those who tune in? ⁣ ⁣ 38:10 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ One thing I like to say to people is if you are not in the adoption community, but you know somebody that's touched by adoption, sit back and listen to what they have to say, or their viewpoint or their hurt, because so often we jump in and we offer an opinion or we have a perspective that we're not willing to change without really listening to somebody and I think this follows through with other hot topics. It doesn't have to be adoption. If we take the time to listen, time to listen and have empathy for the speaker, I think that we have the potential to invoke change in our societies and our communities, but we have to be willing to do that, to be willing to listen. ⁣ ⁣ 38:54 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That's beautiful, always coming from that place of compassion and empathy. It doesn't have to be our story, but that's what connects us. Thank you for sharing that. That's beautiful. We will share all the information on your books, julie McGue. Three books In 2025, we'll see three out there. Maybe even more with all these essays you're writing. Who knows? But Twice a Daughter A Search for Identity, family and Belonging, belonging Matters, conversations on Adoption, family and Kinship. And in 2025, twice a Family A Memoir of Love, loss and Sisterhood, and all of that will be in the podcast notes. I highly recommend sharing this, taking time to read these stories and see what your connection is and the empathy that you might have to this conversation, julie, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. ⁣ ⁣ 39:42 - Julie McGue (Guest)⁣ Thanks, Hilary. Thanks for your thoughtful questions and really easy conversation. ⁣ ⁣ 39:52 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I appreciate it, my pleasure. All right, my friends, if this conversation with Julie McGue inspired you in any way, like it did me, consider leaving a rating and a review wherever you're tuning in. It will help others find this podcast when you do that, and they might be the ones that really need to connect to the story. So do yourself a favor and do us a favor, and do others a favor and pay it forward. And if you want to connect with Julie personally, learn more about her stories or her books, I've shared all that information in the notes of this podcast. That includes her two books that are out right now Twice a Daughter A Search for Identity, family and Belonging and Belonging Matters, which are conversations on adoption, family and kinship, and, of course, her soon-to-be-released book in 2025, which is Twice a Family, which is a memoir of love, loss, sisterhood. That comes out in February. ⁣ ⁣ 40:41⁣ And, yes, you can connect with me and learn more about how you can turn your traumas into triumphs, how you can hug it out with Havening with me as your guide, and you can also join us for Havening happy hours every month or any other event that I might be hosting. You can find that information on how to attend those events to connect with me. In the notes of this podcast as well, there's links for everything you need. HIListically Speaking is edited by 2 Market Media with music by Lipbone Redding and tuned into by you. So thank you for returning week after week and being part of the process, and never forget, no matter your journey, you do belong and your story does matter. I love you, I believe in you and I will see you next week. Be well. ⁣ ⁣

If you’ve ever wondered how self-perception can influence your journey to personal success, this conversation on the HIListically Speaking Podcast with guest Dr. John Demartini is for you. A world-renowned luminary in human behavior and emotional intelligence, Dr. Demartini will have you asking yourself, “How do I elevate my self-awareness?” But also inspire authentic living through balance and embracing both the inner hero and the bully within. Dr. Demartini shares his trauma-to-triumph stories that will leave you in awe. Including two powerful lessons he learned as a high school dropout from one of the world’s most successful entrepreneurs of his time, to the words he lives by that have been the blueprint for humanity, wisdom, and love. ⁣   ⁣ ⁣CHAPTERS/KEY MOMENTS⁣ 0:00   Intro ⁣ 0:10    Human Potential Through Emotional Intelligence⁣ 03:38  Imposter Syndrome, the Ego for Authenticity⁣ 07:17   Self-Judgment and Behavior ⁣ 16:08  Lesson in Wisdom and Courage⁣ 21:54  Creating Original Ideas for Humanity⁣ 29:09  Free Masterclasses with Dr. Demartini⁣ 31:00  Essentials of Emotional Intelligence Book⁣ 32:50  Unlocking Your Inner Genius  ⁣ 38:47  Self-Talk for Success⁣ 42:48  Authenticity and Self-Acceptance  ⁣ 46:25  The Power of Gratitude and Love⁣ 56:28 Life's Balance and Self-Confidence⁣ ⁣ CONNECT WITH DR. DEMARTINI ⁣ https://drdemartini.com/ or @drjohndemartini⁣ ⁣ Essentials of Emotional Intelligence Book (available on Amazon May 2024⁣   CONNECT WITH HILARY⁣ https://www.instagram.com/hilaryrusso⁣ ⁣https://www.youtube.com/hilaryrusso⁣ https://www.facebook.com/hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣Music by Lipbone Redding https://lipbone.com/⁣ ⁣ Never miss an episode or info on upcoming workshops and events. Subscribe to the Brain Candy Newsletter.⁣ EPISODE TRANSCRIPT ⁣ (Full Transcript https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣)⁣  ⁣ ⁣ 00:00 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Every symptom in our physiology, every symptom in our psychology, every symptom in our sociological connections, in our relationships, even in our business transactions. Our feedback mechanisms trying to get us back to authenticity, where we have equanimity within ourselves and equity between ourselves and others, so we can create a transaction that has a sustainable, fair exchange, where we maximize our potential. So we understand that, no matter what's going on, it's on the way for that objective, not in the way. ⁣ ⁣ 00:30 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Am I unlocking my greatest human potential? Think about that question just for a moment, because that's where we're going today. Sit with it for a moment and then think about that, because you're about to meet somebody who can challenge you with that question and help you find the answer. He is not your typical expert. He has a unique blend of wisdom and wit and insight, and he's dedicated his life to unraveling the mysteries of human behavior and helping people, including himself, discover that human potential. Thank you so much for joining us here. As I mentioned, you are a world leading human behavior specialist. You're a philosopher and international speaker, multi bestselling author and founder of the Demartini Method, which is a revolutionary tool in modern psychology, and it is just such a pleasure and a joy to have you here to share more about what you do and how you hold space in this world. So thank you. ⁣ ⁣ 01:32 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Thank you. What a great intro. Thank you. ⁣ ⁣ 01:35 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Well, I've been really tapping into everything you're sharing and you talk a lot about, most recently the emotional intelligence side of things with your most recent book, and I want to touch on that because you really have made such a significant difference in how people are truly transforming their own lives. So let's go there first. What is making this book, this most recent book, the Essentials of Emotional Intelligence, different from all these other amazing pieces of literature you've written in the past? ⁣ ⁣ 02:28 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ not always appreciate themselves, not love themselves, because of the emotional vicissitudes and volatilities that they allow themselves to participate in. I'll give an example. You see somebody walking down the street. You meet them and you think, wow, they're more intelligent than me, or maybe they're more achieving, successful than me, or maybe wealthier, or maybe they're more, have a stable relationship, or maybe they're more of a leader or more they're physically fit or more inspired. ⁣ ⁣ 02:59⁣ And then you put them a bit on a pedestal because you're conscious of the upsides and blind and subjectively biased and unconscious of the downsides. And then you beat yourself up and minimize yourself and then you're not honoring your magnificence Because you're comparing yourself to others instead of comparing your daily actions to your own values. Or you might meet somebody and you look down on them and think I'm superior to them, I'm too proud to admit what I see in them, inside me, and you'll now put them down intellectually or in business or finance or family or social or physical or spiritual. And then you now put them in the pit and exaggerate yourself. Anytime we put some in a pedestal and minimize ourselves or put people in a pit and exaggerate ourselves, we're not being ourselves. We've got an imposter syndrome. We've got a facade, a persona, a mask that we're wearing the superiority complex, the inferiority complex, the puffed up, the beat up. ⁣ ⁣ 04:03 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And as long as we do that, we're in a state of becoming, not our authentic state of being. I love that you touch on that state of the becoming versus the being, because a lot of times I'll say are you being, are you in a state of being or a state of doing? But using the word becoming is is something that is really resonating with me. And going back to the idea of the imposter syndrome, I think we're hearing a lot more about that now and I imagine that's because we live in this global village where everything is right at the touch of our fingertips, you know. So we're infiltrated with so much information and comparison game that it could be very detrimental, whether you're a child or an adult. ⁣ ⁣ 04:40 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Well, we're not here to compare ourselves to others. We're here to compare our own daily actions to what's most meaningful to us, and how congruent are we with what's really priority? But the second we put people on pedestals or pits, we distorted our views, subjectively, of them and we simultaneously created the symptoms in ourselves to let us know that simultaneously created the symptoms in ourselves to let us know that All of the physiological symptoms that we generate genetically, epigenetically or autonomically are feedback mechanisms to guide us back to authenticity. And when we puff ourselves up, we tend to activate our narcissistic side, because we feel superior and we tend to project our values and expect others to live in our values, which creates futility to humble us. Period, we tend to project our values and expect others to live in our values, which creates futility to humble us. And anytime we minimize ourselves and exaggerate them, we tend to go into our altruistic persona and we try to sacrifice for them, which is futile because we can't sustain it. So both of those are feedback mechanisms that are futility, that allow us to go back to who we are. ⁣ ⁣ 05:42⁣ Every symptom in our physiology, every symptom in our psychology, every symptom in our sociological connections, in our relationships, even in our business transactions, our feedback mechanisms, trying to get us back to authenticity, where we have equanimity within ourselves and equity between ourselves and others, so we can create a transaction that has a sustainable, fair exchange, where we maximize our potential. So we understand that, no matter what's going on, it's on the way for that objective, not in the way, and we transcend our fantasies of our amygdala of avoiding pain and seeking pleasure and only going to one-sided realities. As the Buddha says, the desire for that which is unobtainable and the desire to avoid that which is unavoidable is a source of human suffering. But when we finally realize that there's a balance of life and there's nothing to get rid of in yourself and there's nothing to try to go and find in yourself, it's already present and you embrace it in yourself and not compare it to somebody else, because you won't honor it in yourself when you're comparing what you think it needs to be in you with somebody else, what? ⁣ ⁣ 06:43 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ you think it needs to be in you with somebody else, For those out there that are hearing you and want so desperately I don't even want to say desperately, but are really open to the possibility of the neuroplasticity of the brain right, being able to really truly change your thoughts, change your life, kind of thing. How are there easy steps to go about that approach? If they're stuck in the imposter syndrome, if they are on the pedestal or the pit, there must be a simple step to take first. ⁣ ⁣ 07:17 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Yes, well, I've been fascinated by this, for I've been teaching 51 years, so I've been doing it a bit. And you know, there's a statement in Romans 2.1 of the New Testament not that that is the ultimate source by any means, it's just a source but it says that beware of judging other people, for whatever you see in them, you do the same thing. So I was 40-something years ago. I found myself when I was saying something about other people. I found myself talking to myself Whatever I was saying to them and being adamant about. I was thinking I'm really talking to myself, trying to convince myself of what I'm saying to them. Isn't it interesting. So, instead of waiting for people to push my buttons, I decided to go to the Oxford English Dictionary and underline every possible human behavioral trait that could be found. Now Gordon Halport did the same thing years earlier. I didn't know about that at the time, but he must have been as neurotic as I was, because I went through every one and underlined every one of them. ⁣ ⁣ 08:19⁣ In the book I found 4,628 character traits of human beings. Then what I did is I put an initial of the individual out to the side of the margin of the dictionary. Who is it that I know that displays this trait to the furthest degree. So if I saw somebody that was generous, who is the most generous? If I saw somebody that was inconsiderate, who is the most inconsiderate In my perception? These are my distortions, but I put the names out there. Once I put the name next to each of those, I then asked myself John, go to a moment where and when you perceive yourself displaying or demonstrating this particular trait. And I had to be honest with myself because I knew that I did because you only react to things on the outside that represent parts of yourself you haven't loved. So if you're resentful to somebody, they're reminding you that you're too proud to admit you've done it. They're reminding you of something you're feeling ashamed of and they're bringing it out. The reason you want to avoid them is because you don't want to dissociate away from what you're judging in yourself. So I went through there and I found every one of those traits inside myself to the same degree, quantitatively and qualitatively, as I saw in them. And I didn't stop until I saw it which was waking up intuition and unconscious information about me and took out the subjective bias and allowed me to see myself objectively and I realized I was hero and villain, and saint and sinner, and I had every one of those traits. I had all pairs of opposites. ⁣ ⁣ 09:53⁣ Heraclitus, 5th century BC, said there's a unity of opposites in all of us. And it was Wilhelm Watt, in the 1895 Father Experimental Psychology, that said that there's a simultaneous contrast in all people. When they become aware of it, they're fully self-actualized. So nothing's missing At the level of the soul, nothing's missing At the level of the senses. Things appear to be missing. The things that appear to be missing are the things you're too proud or too humble to admit that you see in others, inside yourself, and pure, reflective awareness, which allows true loving intimacy, allows you to realize that whatever you see is you. So the first thing to help you transcend the vicissitudes and the volatilities of the incomplete awareness is to take the time to go and look at where you do the same thing. That's just one of many steps, and when I did that I found all 4,628 traits. I sat and I documented where I had them all. So that means that no matter what anybody said about me, it was true, but maybe not in the context they were projecting, but I owned it and I found out that any trait you don't own is a trait that people push your buttons with, but when you own it, you go. ⁣ ⁣ 11:08⁣ Yes, sometimes I'm this way, sometimes I'm that If I walked up to somebody and I said you're always nice, you're never mean, you're always kind, you're never cruel, you're always positive, never negative, they would go. Not exactly, their intuition would point out the times when they've been the other and they'd immediately be thinking about the time when they're the opposite of that. If I said you're always mean, you're never nice, you're always cruel, you're never kind, always stingy, never generous, they'd go. No, that's not true either. But if I said sometimes you're nice, sometimes you're mean, sometimes you're kind, sometimes you're cruel, they'd go. That's me, because we know innately, with certainty, that we have a unity of pairs of opposites and when you can embrace both sides of those and don't try to get rid of half of yourself, you finally can love yourself. But the futility of trying to get rid of half of yourself is going to undermine it. ⁣ ⁣ 11:52⁣ So the first step in transcending, because anything you infatuate with or resent occupies space and time in your mind and runs your life, and you can't even sleep at night when you're highly infatuated or resentful, because your mind is intruded by these incomplete awarenesses and it's creating symptoms to let you know you're not loving and not whole. You're playing part in the posture and your symptoms are giving you feedback to let you know that to help you. So when I went through and I owned all those traits, I noticed that there was more poise, more presence, more productivity. Noticed that there was more poise, more presence, more productivity, more able to be prioritized and not influenced by other people's opinions, and able to. You know, I'd rather have the whole world against me than my own soul. I was able to listen to my soul, the state of unconditional love, not the imposter syndrome, because if you put people in pedestals you'll minimize. If you put people in pitch, you can exaggerate, and those are becoming, instead of being so you get to be being when you own all your traits. So that's the first little step. ⁣ ⁣ 13:05⁣ 1947, he said it's not that we don't know so much, we know so much. That isn't so. We've been taught moral hypocrisies. Alistair McIntyre, in his book on the history of ethics, shows that we've been given a bunch of ideals that nobody lives by, but everybody thinks they're supposed to, and then they beat themselves up and because they do. They brain offload decisions to outer authorities, and the outer authorities set up the moral hypocrisies for ability to control people as a strategy. So I realized that it's not that we don't know so much. We know so much. That isn't so. So it's time to confront the fantasies and idealisms and the unrealistic expectations and to look at things in a broader perspective. In a broad mind, it's neither positive or negative. In a narrow mind, it's neither positive or negative. In a narrow mind, it's either positive or negative. ⁣ ⁣ 13:48⁣ So I started to go and ask the trait that I listed on the encyclopedia did I interpret it as a positive trait or a negative trait? And if I interpret it as a positive trait, I then asked what are the downsides of the trait? Until I found enough drawbacks to see both sides? And if I saw it as a negative trait, what are the upsides to it? Until I saw both sides? Because I realized that you may infatuate with a guy. You may meet this guy. He's highly intelligent, ooh. He's an aphrodisiac. He turns me on, he's so intelligent, ooh. But then you go. But he's argumentative, he thinks he's right, he knows it all, he doesn't want to listen, he wants to always win in a fight of argument. And then you go oh, there's downsides to that. ⁣ ⁣ 14:27⁣ But because I was infatuated and fantasizing about how good it was, I was blind, I minimized myself, I sacrificed to get with this guy. I feared his loss and I disempowered myself until I saw both sides. And when I saw both sides, he didn't control me. I gave myself power, my power back. In the process of doing it, I went through the 4,628 traits and looked for the upsides to what I thought was down, the down to what was up, until I saw that it was neither positive nor negative. And then I transcended the moral hypocrisies that I'd been indoctrinated by, which was the dogma, and I got to see that there was nothing but love. All else was illusion, because love is the synthesis and synchronicity of complementary opposites, which is the state of being, which is our spiritual path, as Hagel says oh, fascinating. ⁣ ⁣ 15:18 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I love this conversation so much. I'm just sitting here and I'm thinking with such wisdom that you have, with over 50 years of studying, which everything that you're sharing here on the show in just a small period of time. I'd love to know who is your inspiration Like, who helped you come to this place, because I know you share personally that you had your own story even as a high school dropout, as someone who had his own challenges in his youth. Who truly was your inspiration to move you into the space of becoming and being? ⁣ ⁣ 15:58 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Well, I don't know if there's one, there's probably 30,000. ⁣ ⁣ 16:03 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Maybe a couple of your favorites. ⁣ ⁣ 16:08 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ When I was a young boy, I left home and I left home at 13. At 14, I hitchhiked from Houston, texas, to California. On that hitchhike I was confronted by three cowboys. In El Paso, texas, I had a headband, a Hawaiian shirt on, some shorts, some sandals and I had a surfboard. And I was hitchhiking to California. I got confronted by three cowboys. Cowboys and surfers didn't get along in those days, 1968. ⁣ ⁣ 16:39⁣ I was walking through downtown because the freeway wasn't in those days. You had to go through the downtown and three cowboys lined up across the front of me and they were going to not let me through. They didn't like long-haired hippie kids. I didn't know what to do. I couldn't outrun them, I couldn't go in the store, I couldn't go in the street. I had to confront them and somehow a great ingenious idea came to me. I looked like a wild animal and barked like some wild wolf and dog. Okay, now that that's talking about genius. Now that was that low level genius. So I did and the guys moved aside. They moved aside and they let me through the sidewalk and I'm growling at him with my and they let me through. ⁣ ⁣ 17:26⁣ As I came on the other side there was a guy on the street corner leaning on a lamppost, trying to compose himself from laughing so hard, because he just saw what I did. And he comes up behind me and he puts his arm on top of my shoulder and he said, sonny, that's the funniest dang thing I've ever seen. You took them cowpokes like a pro. Can I buy you a cup of coffee? And I said, sir, I don't drink coffee. Can I get you a Coca-Cola? And I said yes, sir. ⁣ ⁣ 17:53⁣ So he took me to a little malt shop and we're swiveling on these things and I had a little Coke with this guy. He was 62 years old at the time but he seemed older, because when you're 14, that seems old. Now it seems young. I'm 70 almost. So I listened to him and he said you finished with your Coke? I said yes, sir. He said then follow me, I have something to teach you. ⁣ ⁣ 18:16⁣ So he took me two blocks, another two blocks up these steps to the downtown El Paso library. We asked the lady at the information booth if she could keep my surfboard and my little duffel bag there watched while we went too library. We asked the lady at the information booth if she could keep my surfboard and my little duffel bag there, watched while we went to the library. We go down these steps, walk a ways up these little steps and sat there in front of a table and he said just sit here, young man. ⁣ ⁣ 18:36⁣ He went off into the bookshelves, he came back with two big books, put them on the table and sat catty corner to me and he said, son, there's two things I want to teach you. You have to promise me that you will remember these things and never forget them. I said yes, sir. He said number one don't ever judge a book by its cover. I said yes, sir. And he says let me tell you why. ⁣ ⁣ 19:02⁣ Young man, you probably think I'm some old guy on the street, some old bum, but, young man, I'm one of the wealthiest men in the world. I have everything that money can buy. I've got planes and boats and businesses and homes and companies, everything that money can buy. He says so don't ever judge a book by its cover, because he can fool you. I said yes, sir. Then he grabbed my hand and he stuck them on top of the two books, and it was Plato and Aristotle. And he said to me young man, you learn how to read. You learn how to read, boy. I said, yes, sir, and he said and here's why they can take away your possessions. People can die, but there's only two things they can never take away from you, and that is your love and your wisdom. So you gain the wisdom of love and you gain the love of wisdom, because that's something that nobody can ever take away from you and that will accumulate through your life. You promise me you'll never, forget that young man. ⁣ ⁣ 20:10⁣ My cufflinks today say love and wisdom. It turned out it was Howard Hughes. ⁣ ⁣ 20:16 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Oh wow, how many times have you told that story and had that response? That's pretty. ⁣ ⁣ 20:26 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Not that many times, but oh, I feel honored. He was doing an El Paso natural gas deal with El Paso Natural Gas for a brewery he was building in Austin, Texas. This is right before he went to Las Vegas with his germaphobic outcome. ⁣ ⁣ 20:46 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I mean, that's incredible. ⁣ ⁣ 20:48 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ At 17, I met a guy named Paul Bragg. He told me that he says we have a body, we have a mind and we have a soul, and the body must be directed by the mind and the mind must be guided by the soul to maximize who we are. And he says you want to set goals for yourself, your family, your community, your city, your state, your nation, your world and beyond for 100 to 120 years, because by the time you grow up you'll be living to 100 years. This is a 1972. And he said what you see, what you say, what you see, what you say, what you think, what you feel and the actions you take determine your destiny. So if you take command of your life and don't let others take command of your life, you can create a life by design, not duty, and you give yourself permission to shine, not shrink, and you can live in a sense ontologically as a state of being, instead of deontologically as a state of becoming. So he had an impact on me when I was 17. Then I made it to age 23. ⁣ ⁣ 21:54⁣ I made a guy named Lakishwaram. He had six PhDs at 35 years old PhDs at 35 years old already six PhDs and I got to mentor under this guy and learn from this guy, and it was just an amazing breadth of knowledge this man had. And he asked me one day to a question. He asked a question, he answered it and then he said are you certain about your answer? And I said, well, no, is that an answer that's accurate? He says yes, it is. You know inside, trust yourself. Whenever you minimize yourself to others, you'll offload the decision and think they know better than you. Find your core competency where you have highest on your values, where you have the greatest epistemological pursuit, and honor that and stick to your core competence and then do something in your life that fulfills what's core competent and you will excel and do something great with your life. So I have had, I've been blessed to study all of the great classics, both Eastern and Western mysticism, from the Vedanta to Buddhist teachings to all the Greek philosophers. I've slayed all the Nobel Prize winners, anybody who has had any global influence that's done anything amazing I've devoured, and one thing that I'm certain about, that the originators of the various disciplines of life are the people I've learned the most from, the people who gave themselves permission to be an unborrowed visionary, and not somebody that's borrowing and copying, but somebody who is actually an originator. See, I've said since I was about 20, I create original ideas that serve humanity. I create original ideas that serve humanity. ⁣ ⁣ 23:38⁣ I also said I learned something from Albert Einstein. Albert Einstein said I'm not a man of my family or my community or my city or my state or even my nation. I'm a citizen of the world. So I've since I was 18 years old I want to be a citizen of the world. Pictet has said that. ⁣ ⁣ 23:54⁣ Socrates said that I could go down the list of people that understood that they didn't want to be localized, they wanted to be non-locally entangled with the universe. So I live on a ship called the world. It goes to every country around the world. I've said since I was 20 to 21 years old the universe is my playground, the world is my home. Every country is a room in the house, every city is a platform to share my heart and soul. My life is dedicated to love and wisdom and doing whatever I can to expand awareness and potential and the involvement of human consciousness, which has already evolved. It's just us waking up to it and do whatever I can to do that, and I do that seven days a week because I can't think of anything else I'd rather be doing. ⁣ ⁣ 24:34 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Like what is the idea of true originality. ⁣ ⁣ 24:37 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Well, you distill and then you integrate into oneness the information, you link it to what you value most. Aristotle had a thing he called the telos, which is the study of which is teleology was the study of meaning and purpose. When I was 23 years old, I realized I asked the question what is it that makes a difference between people that walk their talk and limp their life, people that do what they say and not? And I was fascinated by what the distinction is, and I found that people who set goals and objectives true objectives, not fantasies that are aligned and congruent with what they truly value most, what their life demonstrates is truly most important to them, they increase the probability of original thinking, and original thinking comes when you're willing to pursue challenges that inspire you. The moment you pursue challenges that inspire you, and the greatest challenge to inspire you, are the ones that serve the greatest number of people, the problems that serve the greatest number of people. You know it's interesting. Elon Musk is a good example of this. He finds what's the biggest problems on the planet and he goes and finds a way of solving them. ⁣ ⁣ 25:50⁣ I have a girlfriend that I dated for a while. My wife passed away and she was at Harvard and Oxford and Cornell. She went to four major universities. A very bright lady and she went to the professor at Harvard Her name is Trish Went to the professor at Harvard and this is a time when there was still a little bit of discrepancy between males and females right, it's starting to get a little bit more even but at the time it was still polarized. And she said I want to be able to create a massive business. And he said well, if you do, you need to find the biggest challenge that the society is facing and find a more efficient solution. She said, okay. ⁣ ⁣ 26:35⁣ So she went back to her country, which was South Africa, and she saw that the energy crisis was the biggest one, because ESCOM in South Africa was constantly rationing energy and had a bit of corruption and it wasn't really serving the people to the fullest. So she says I'm going to find a solution to the energy crisis. When she did, she concluded that nuclear was probably the most efficient probably the most efficient. So she, as an individual, raised the funds and borrowed the money to build a private nuclear power plant. Now no one can say that she's the only one that I know in the world that's pulled that off. Most of these are governments that do so. She ended up building a nuclear power plant, selling it back to the government and doing quite well. Now her husband at the time disowned her and divorced her because he didn't want to have the debt, because this is billions. ⁣ ⁣ 27:28⁣ So she took on the risk to solve the problems at the time. When she solved that, she said what's the next issue in the country? Transportation. People are walking everywhere. They can't afford transportation. So she decided to build commuter trains. ⁣ ⁣ 27:45⁣ But the other thing was unemployment and uneducation. So what she did is she did an aerial view of South Africa. She looked at all the problems where the most poverty was, where jobs were needed and these kind of things. She looked at where the rail was and she rerouted rails into the areas that had the most poverty. She set up educational systems to educate them for engineering and hired these people to build trains and commuter trains and put thousands of people to work and created a computer train manufacturing system in three major locations to transform the education, the economics, job opportunities which reduce crime issues and solve the problem. ⁣ ⁣ 28:29⁣ So people who care about humanity, that are dedicated to finding major problems, the greater the problem they get, the more fulfillment they get in life and the more ingenious and original creative thinking comes out of them to solve it. But if you don't have a big enough problem that inspires you to solve, don't expect genius to emerge. It's there in all of us, but we sometimes want to live in our amygdala, avoiding pain and seeking pleasure and avoiding challenge and seeking ease, that we don't go after. The challenges that inspire us, that make a difference, and those are the ones that wake up the genius and creativity of original thinking. ⁣ ⁣ 29:09 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Before we go any further, I do want to mention if you're just overwhelmed with this unbelievable conversation we're having, please know that he has been so gracious to offer a number of free masterclasses and I'm going to put those links in the listen notes of this podcast episode of HIListically Speaking so that you can pick what look. I would say, download them all, because we're talking about the law of attraction. We're talking about how to increase and deserve that level of finally getting what you want in your life. All of these free gifts, the power of your full advantage and potential. The list goes on and on. ⁣ ⁣ 29:42⁣ I'm not going to run down them all. You're going to, just you're going to go to the list of notes, you're going to see what's up, what is there for you, and take your time. You know I say it all the time on this podcast Every guest I have is like a masterclass, and here you are offering additional master classes in addition to this conversation. So let me just say thank you so much, so grateful, for everything that you are sharing. It is just a wealth of information, from your own experiences and your own growth to how you are serving others in this world from that original, authentic self that you present here today. ⁣ ⁣ 30:22 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ so thank you for that uh, thank you for having give me the opportunity to share with people, because without the people, what good am I? ⁣ ⁣ 30:31 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ absolutely. We need each other in this world, right? So your book, the ascent the essentials of emotional intelligence, is your latest book. Where are you hoping this book will go that perhaps other books haven't, from somebody who has released what close to 50 books, if not more? ⁣ ⁣ 30:48 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Yeah, I've written about 300, but there's about 50 that are paperbacks. Okay, the mission of this book was to give some practical tools on how to stabilize the emotional vicissitudes, the impulsive and instinctual seeking and avoidings that distract us from being present, and how to awaken the four brains executive center, the medial prefrontal cortex, which, according to Scientific American in the October edition of 2022, was called the seat of the self. It's a neural correlate for the seat of the self. It's not our self, but it's the neural correlate. And when we allow that to occur, when we live by priority, that blood glucose and oxygen goes into that forebrain, activates that area. That area has nerve fibers down into the amygdala, nucleus, acumens and palladium, and it uses glutamate and GABA to neutralize the impulses and instincts and dampens the volatility that distract us into the imposter syndrome, so we can be our magnificent self. ⁣ ⁣ 31:58⁣ So that's why, if we don't fill our day with high priority actions that inspire us, that integrate us, our day is designed to fill up with low priority distractions that don't to create chaos in our life, to get us guided back to what is authentic. All the symptoms are trying to get us back to authenticity and a lot of people think there's something wrong with them, but actually they're misinterpreting what this feedback is offering them. Their body and mind is doing what it's designed to do to get them back to authenticity. And when you actually go back and prioritize your life, dedicate to what's highest in priority, delegate what's lowest in priority and delegate to those people that would be inspired to do what you want to delegate, so you give job opportunities and help the economy and help people fulfill their lives. You liberate yourself from the distractions of impulses and instincts and the imposter syndrome. That's what the book's for. ⁣ ⁣ 32:50 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And is this a book that is relatively easy to read for those who might be approaching this kind of mindset, maybe taking a deep dive and making some changes in their own lives? Is this the first book that they should look at, or are there other books? ⁣ ⁣ 33:07 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ There's many books. Everybody when you go to the bookstore you find the one that resonates at that time and 10 weeks later you got another one. I have many books that you could go through and scan and see which ones resonate with you. But I believe that because I have an editor to help me with it, because he would, you know, bring it to where it's. I don't understand that. Clarify it, kind of thing. I think between us we've tried to make the book as understandable as we can. ⁣ ⁣ 33:34⁣ But at the same time I learned many years ago I've been teaching speed learning programs and how to wake up. You know photographic memories and genius and all kinds of stuff in people for many years now. And what people do is they have a conscious self and an unconscious self, right the explicit and implicit, and most people read verbally, not visually, and they're used to phonemes and they're used to you know what they say and only reading and learning as fast as they can speak and as a result of it, anytime they go beyond that speech speed, which is two to 300 words for most people. They go. I didn't get it, but what I've learned is that it's all there in your visual system. Your thalamus filters out certain information, but it's still there. And then when you need it and the information is needed and it helps you fulfill a purpose, it comes from the unconscious up to the conscious level. So I teach people to just take in the information and don't question whether you got it, just take it in, look at it, see it, because then all of a sudden, when you're in a conversation and somebody asks you a question, where that information is needed out, it will come, but you won't need it, you won't even hear it, didn't even know, you knew it until that moment. When you do, then you realize that we're so we limit ourselves to our conscious awareness, which is a small portion of what we are capable of taking in, and then we don't honor the other part of our life that knows. And so I'm a firm believer just delivering the information and letting people trust what they learn, to trust both sides of themselves and to embrace it, because we have a capacity to learn way farther than even most people ever imagined. I mean, I'm absolutely certain I read 11,000 pages in one day and absorbed it, and people start asking questions on it and they go. ⁣ ⁣ 35:33⁣ I don't think I didn't know how you could do that and I said because I didn't question it. I stopped questioning what I learned and believing that it's only what I got consciously. And then, when you asked me the question, whatever was unconscious was there for me. So a lot of people don't realize that they have a genius. There's no uniqueness. Everyone has a genius and it can be awakened and I've been working on that. The first statement that I ever got from Paul Bragg is because I told him I didn't know how to read. I didn't read until I was 18. I didn't know. I was learned and disabled and I was told I would never be able to read. He told me say every single day, say to yourself I'm a genius and I apply my wisdom. ⁣ ⁣ 36:17 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ So I did. ⁣ ⁣ 36:19 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ I didn't know what that even meant. I asked my mom. When I saw my mom, I said what the heck is a genius? She says people like Albert Einstein and Da Vinci. I said well then, get me everything you can about those guys. ⁣ ⁣ 36:28⁣ I later learned that a genius is one who listens to their inner voice and follows their inner vision and obeys and lets the voice and vision on the inside be louder than all opinions on the outside, and then they master the path of their life. They're on their dharmic path, not their karmic wheel, and they liberate themselves from the bondage of all the infatuations, resentments, all the exaggerations of pride and shame that stop them from being authentic when they exaggerate and minimize other people through judgment. So we have a genius inside and it's spontaneously ready to come out, but we don't give it permission to come out because we're too preoccupied with what others think and how we're positioned. And there was two Nobel Prize winners that got their Nobel Prize in 2016 on the place in grid cells and in January February of 2020. ⁣ ⁣ 37:23⁣ Fantastic article on that in the Scientific American showing how we socially put ourselves in pecking orders and hierarchies in society because we disown parts and if we went and we go and take the most powerful people on the planet and go find what do I admire in them, what do I dislike in them, and own them all, we reposition ourselves and we awaken the same playing field that they're playing on and I've proven that in thousands of cases. We have people that have now Grammy award-winning, people that we're just barely seeing, and we got people that are doing amazing things economically, because there's nothing missing in us and fulfillment is the realization. There's nothing missing, never was missing, but we were too busy, preoccupied with being too proud or too humble to admit what we see in others, inside us. And when we finally embrace our hero and villain in all parts of ourselves and not try to get rid of half of ourselves, we finally awaken that magnificent genius that's sitting there dormant, ready to emerge spontaneously into inspired action of creativity and origination. The second we be authentic. ⁣ ⁣ 38:30 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ It so comes back to balance Everything you're saying, like the yin, the yang. It's so balanced and I think you're opening my mind to think of things more than just like work-life balance, and I think you're opening my mind to think of things more than just like work-life balance, and it's so much more. And what you just said about the inner voice because truly this is the loudest voice in the room is our own right. And how are we speaking to ourselves? What is that inner bully doing? That's stepping up on the playground constantly. It's truly embodying the beauty that exists within each and every one of us. The genius remark you said. I would love for you to reiterate that statement, that conversation you had with your mom, because, if anything, that is something that should be up on everyone's wall, your mirror, that thing you see every day, a reminder to yourself of what follows those words. I am. I am a genius. And you said something else. Could you share that Cause? That was brilliant. ⁣ ⁣ 39:29 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Well, that that that came from Paul Bragg. He gave it to me when I was 17. Well, I just turned 18. At the time he said cause? I told him I didn't know how to read, how am I going to be a teacher? I wanted to travel the world and teach. And he said and I thought that's what I saw in my dream. And he says just say to yourself every single day. I'm a genius and I apply my wisdom. Said every single day, until the cells of your body tingle with it, and so with the world. I didn't know how to read at the time. I learned how to read after I started saying that every day. ⁣ ⁣ 40:01 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Well, I'm sure there was an inner dialogue you were having where the words on paper didn't matter as much as the words that you were telling yourself. ⁣ ⁣ 40:08 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Well, the thing is, as many times many people have this internal dialogue, self-depreciation, but they don't realize that they're addicted to praise is the source of it. The addicted to fantasy is the source of it. There's a thing called a moral licensing effect and I hope everybody looks that up. And when everybody's done it without knowing it, most people have gone out and they've worked out. They went to the gym, they worked out, they really did a workout and they kind of got their abs looking good and they got their butt looking good and then all of a sudden they go. Well, I gave myself permission, I can eat more chocolate, I can eat more food and I can drink some more wine tonight. That's the licensing effect. The moment you do something you're proud of, you give yourself permission to do something you're ashamed of. Now that same truth. ⁣ ⁣ 40:54⁣ This is a homeostatic mechanism. I've been studying interceptive homeostatic mechanisms in biological systems for decades and what is interesting is the second you go above equilibrium, like the temperature goes up, you create sweating to bring it back, and the second you go below and it's cold, you create shivering to bring it back. We have a built-in homeostatic interceptive feedback inside our consciousness and anytime we get a neurochemistry that's imbalanced. The pre and post-synaptic brain will automatically rebalance it and attempt to balance it. And so we create for every memory an anti-memory and we create it and we'll dissociate. If it's a traumatic memory, we'll dissociate and create a fantasy, and if it's a fantasy thing, we'll create a paranoia to get a balance, to keep the homeostasis balanced. So the second we're beating ourselves up. Most people go, oh, get rid of that, get rid of that, get rid of that. And they can't get rid of it as long as they're building themselves up with fantasies. And so the second they compare themselves to others and put people on pedestals and go, oh, I want to be like that and set up a fantasy. And then they say only these positive things about themselves. They automatically have to self-depreciate to counterbalance it. So a balanced orientation you don't have that polarity, You've integrated the polarity. ⁣ ⁣ 42:08⁣ So I don't try to be positive all the time, or nice all the time, or peaceful all the time. I'm a human being and I have a set of values. When I live by my highest values, I'm most objective and neutral. When I'm living by lower values, I become more volatile. That's why anybody that does something that's really high priority during the day, they're resilient and adaptable. Because they're neutral, because they don't feel the loss of things they infatuate with, they don't feel the gain of things. They resent the moment they balance themselves and bring themselves up and live by priority, they're more neutral. But if not, they're more polarized. When they get polarized and they end up fearing the loss of the things they infatuate with and fearing the gain of that, they're now distracted. ⁣ ⁣ 42:48⁣ So I basically learned many years ago to ask questions. That rebalanced it and I realized that the second I got addicted to praise, criticism hurt, and the second I puffed myself up. I attract challenge, criticism, distractions. ⁣ ⁣ 43:06⁣ There's a thing called depurposing and repurposing. The second, you get proud and think you're successful. You depurpose, you give yourself permission to do low priority things and the purpose of that is to get you back into authenticity because you're puffed up and then, if you go down, you go okay, now I overate. So now the next morning I'm now going to get up and jog. I haven't been jogging for weeks, but now I overate, I'm going jogging. ⁣ ⁣ 43:28⁣ So you give yourself to repurpose, so you have a built-in homeostatic mechanism to guide you to authenticity. But you're constantly being taught what isn't so, as Dirac said, about how you're supposed to be one-sided. Get rid of half of yourself, Be nice, don't mean, be kind, don't be cruel, be positive, don't be negative. And so you're set up like I got to get rid of half of myself and the whole personal development journey out. There is misleading people into thinking they have to get rid of themselves to love themselves, and the truth is integrating and embracing both sides of yourself is what liberates you and makes you realize the magnificence of who you are and the contributions you're making. ⁣ ⁣ 44:07 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Now you don't build yourself up. ⁣ ⁣ 44:08 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ You don't build yourself up. You don't beat yourself up. People come up to me, and sometimes in interview, and they say, dr Demartini, how did you become successful? And I go I'm not successful. And they go what it says? ⁣ ⁣ 44:22⁣ I have no desire for success because my addiction to success is the very thing that creates the fear of failure. I'm a man on a mission and I see success and failure as feedback mechanisms to help me stay focused and authentic. And if I get successful, I'm proud and I do low priority things to get me back down and if I feel like I'm a failure, I go back to high priority things to get me back up. When I'm in the center, I don't even think of success or failure. I think of my mission. ⁣ ⁣ 44:48⁣ And that is always a perfect blend between myself and other people, because if I'm thinking of success, I think about myself and I forgot my people, and if I think of a failure, I'm thinking about myself, I forgot my people. But when I'm in perfect balance, I'm thinking of perfect balance, reflective awareness of the people, humanity and myself. As Schopenhauer says, we become our true self to the degree that we make everyone else ourself. It's all us out there, and when we get there, we don't think of success or fair. We think of we're working as a team on the planet. And when we get there, we don't think of success or failure, we think of we're working as a team on the planet period. ⁣ ⁣ 45:20 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Thank you so much for that. Thank you for the reminder moment of just a new piece of information for folks to ingest and think about and process and think how they can be both sides and find that center. Find that center Really, it's not even being both sides, it's becoming right. I have some work to do myself, so I really appreciate you and all that you're sharing and just becoming and being, and what I would love to do with you in this moment. I know we have a few seconds left. If you hang with me for just a few seconds, I would love to do a quick game with you and throw out some words that you've shared during this episode and see what the first word is that comes back. A little word association. I love to do with my guests. Do you have a moment? ⁣ ⁣ 46:22 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Sure. ⁣ ⁣ 46:23 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ All right, great. So I'm just going to just go with. The first word that comes to mind is wisdom. Just one word, come back. ⁣ ⁣ 46:32 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ In my case, it's what I feel is my mission. ⁣ ⁣ 46:36 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Mission Okay, and love Same thing Okay, and love Same thing Okay. Venous Same thing World. ⁣ ⁣ 46:50 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Destined. ⁣ ⁣ 46:52 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Emotions. ⁣ ⁣ 46:55 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Feedback systems to the truth of love. ⁣ ⁣ 46:58 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Authenticity. Being feedback systems to the truth of love, authenticity being becoming feedback systems to being you're good, I'm going to leave it with this last word, because it is my word of the year and I want to know what your word for balance would be. ⁣ ⁣ 47:21 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Equanimity of both mind and body. ⁣ ⁣ 47:26 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I want to sit with that one for a moment and I appreciate everything you're sharing, your personal story, your wisdom, your wit and everything you're putting out there into the world while you, while you sail along on the world and I hope at some point I am at a port where you are speaking in person, cause I, I would just really love to be in your personal, your space to really feel that energy, because this is, this is, I'm feeling it right here across the airwaves, that energy, because this is, this is I'm feeling it right here across the airwaves. But I have a feeling it's even more, it's even greater in to be in person with you, where are you next? ⁣ ⁣ 48:09 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ What's what's on? Where's the ship sailing? Next I go from here. I'm here for till tomorrow. Then I go to La Habla, Brazil, and then I'm off to Rio de Janeiro the carnival starts there, so I'm passing through there and then I quickly run over to Chennai and Mumbai to do three presentations at a Change makers conference Thousands of people will be there and then I run back down to Cape Town to do some filming and also presentations there. And then we sail up to Maputo, Mozambique, and then I quickly run to London to do presentations there. ⁣ ⁣ 48:46⁣ And then I get back on a French island and my girlfriend's meeting me in the Seychelles Islands and the Maldives for a little romance Lovely. And then off to India, then Lovely, and then off to India then. And then we go to Sri Lanka and off to Indonesia and Malaysia and Cambodia and Vietnam and those areas. So we circumnavigate the planet and I get off and on, if I have to do live speaking, otherwise I do presentations. But tomorrow I'm in Japan and the next two days I'll be in Australia from the ship here. So I say the universe is my playground, the world is home. ⁣ ⁣ 49:22 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ On that note, would you have anything you would like to close and share with listeners of the HIListically Speaking podcast? ⁣ ⁣ 49:32 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Yeah, can I share a story? I know I go a couple of seconds over, but I think this is. ⁣ ⁣ 49:38⁣ Doctor, it is your time and I graciously accept your stories 34 years ago almost 35, I was speaking in San Francisco and I was doing a seven-day program on self-mastery and leadership and one of the ladies there asked if I could, at lunch, go over to the hospital there and meet with a particular patient. And I said, if you get me a bagel to eat on the way there and back because I have to start, I only got an hour. If you can get me there and back in an hour and give me a bagel or something to eat, I'll be glad to. We went over there and there was a. We went into this hospital room and there was a guy that was kind of leaning up in the bed and was sort of half asleep and a motion covered with sores and he was dying of AIDS. And he was didn't look like he had much farther to go. His immune deficiency is pretty collapsed. ⁣ ⁣ 50:38⁣ And I sat on the edge of the bed, grabbed his hands. He didn't know who I was and I just looked at him and I said to him please repeat with me what I say no matter what I've done or not done, I'm worthy of love. No matter what I've done or not done, I'm worthy of love. No matter what I've done or not done, I'm worthy of love. And I made him say that and at first he just said the words and about five repetitions he started to cry Because he had accumulated and stored a whole lot of judgments on himself and when we judge ourselves and condemn ourselves, our immune system responds. And so I made him say that until he cried, until he literally leaned over and fell literally onto me. I'm twisted on the bed holding him now on to me. I'm twisted on the bed holding him. Now. There was a nurse there, there was another lady I don't know who, she was administration lady and there was a lady that asked me to come. We're all in tears, we're all just in a moment of grace and authenticity. When you have a tear of gratitude, you have a gamma wave in the brain, you get a moment of authenticity. It's a confirmation. In that moment. He did that and he looked up at me and he said I've never in my life ever felt that or believed or ever said that Thank you. And I said Thank you and we hugged each other and I left, went back to do my prose presentation and didn't know anything about it for a few weeks and finally I got a letter from the lady who asked me to come and a picture. Somehow the man changed his perceptions and rallied. ⁣ ⁣ 52:43⁣ I really don't know the limitations of our ability to heal. I've seen things that would be considered less than probable but all I know is that this man rallied. They thought he was going to die. Didn't die Now, I don't know. Maybe he later. I'm sure somewhere down the line he did, but he didn't die in that recent weeks for sure. ⁣ ⁣ 53:10⁣ So I wrote a book called Count your Blessings the Healing Power of Gratitude and Love. ⁣ ⁣ 53:14⁣ I still believe that that's still one of the great healers on the planet. ⁣ ⁣ 53:17⁣ When we're graced by seeing the hidden order of life and we really, truly realize that there's nothing but love, all else was illusion and we've stopped judging ourselves for just a moment and get a glimpse of our real self, that the power of our physiology to normalize and to homeostasis  are stored, subconsciously stored imbalances, epigenetic lock-ins, you might say are freed. ⁣ ⁣ 53:45⁣ So I just want to end on a story that, in case you've ever judged yourself, just know that no matter what you've done or not done, you're worthy of love and the only reason you're judging yourself is because you're comparing yourself to somebody else's value system Because the decisions you made was based on what you believed at that time were more advantage and disadvantage to you and yours. But if you try to compare it to somebody else, you'll think you're making mistakes, just like if you try to expect others to live in your values. You think they're making mistakes. But maybe there's no mistakes after a while and maybe it's wise to look back a different way and ask how is whatever I've experienced and whatever I've done, how is it helping me fulfill my mission in life? And don't stop until you get a tear of gratitude for whatever you've done or not done. And that is definitely liberating and empowering for any human being, regardless of the situation. It can help relationships, it can help healing, it can help your body, it can help your business. ⁣ ⁣ 54:43 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Gratitude and love is still one of the great healers on the planet. I am so in a place of gratitude right now. So thank you, and I can only imagine that those who are tuning in are going to feel that as well. Thank you for leaving those words with people to sit with and think about and remember that we're all geniuses and we're all the gift. Thank you, dr Demartini. Appreciate it. ⁣ ⁣ 55:09 - Dr. John Demartini (Guest)⁣ Thank you. Thank you, thank you. ⁣ ⁣ 55:12 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I know we have covered a lot of territory during this conversation, but the beauty is you have so many possibilities to connect with Dr Demartini and learn from him yourself, and I'm going to help you with that. I've shared a number of links in the notes of this podcast episode to his free webinars and, of course, to his latest book, essentials of Emotional Intelligence. And once you've had some time to process this, once you've had some time to listen to the show this week, I'm going to suggest that you come back and do it again, because when you give things a listen more than once, you'd be surprised what you unpack the second or the third time or even the fourth. Then, once you have a little time to sit there with it, go ahead and leave a rating or review, or just let me know what you think about this episode, this show on HIListically Speaking and how it has been serving and supporting you, because that's really what this show is about. ⁣ ⁣ 56:14⁣ HIListically Speaking is edited by 2MarketMedia with music by Lipone Redding and, of course, listened to by you time and time again. So thank you so much for taking time to tune in and remember this, and you know this is my word of the year. This year. Life is about balance, and you heard Dr Demartini talk about it himself, and you, my, are already the perfect genius in your own right, so embrace that and always remember to be kind to your mind. I love you, I believe in you and I will see you next week.

How do we navigate the heartache of loss while cherishing the beauty of memories shared with our cherished pets? Join me for an intimate reflection on the enduring impact of my cat, Eliza Doolittle, whose passing after nearly 19 years left a profound mark on my heart. Let’s delve into the love and responsibilities that come with being a pet parenting, finding solace and support within our community during times of grief, and ten life lessons learned from our furry companions.  Plus, a chance to share your pet story on an upcoming episode.⁣   ⁣ FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTS AVAILABLE ⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣ CHAPTERS:  ⁣ 00:00 Intro: The Rainbow Bridge ⁣ 05:31 The Story of Eliza: The Cat Who Saved Me ⁣ 09:44 The Grief and Guilt of Euthanasia  ⁣ 12:54  Finding Gratitude Through Grief  ⁣ 17:33  Connection With Pets Beyond the Veil  ⁣ 20:00 Ten Things I Learned from the Life of a Pet⁣ 23:21 The Power of Community and Rest ⁣ 26:30 Share Your Pet Story⁣ 27:55 Honoring Unconditional Love ⁣ ⁣ Share your voice and pet story on an upcoming episode:⁣ https://www.speakpipe.com/hilisticallyspeaking⁣ ⁣ Join the HUG it Out Collective on Facebook⁣ https://www.facebook.com/groups/hugitoutcollective⁣ Episodes mentioned on this podcast  Ep 17 Chris Palmore Finding Gratitude After Loss Ep 128 Are You a Human Being or a Human Doing?   Eliza and Hilary's Blue Buffalo Cat Food Commercials  youtube.com/hilaryrusso⁣ Connect with Hilary:⁣ https://www.instagram.com/hilaryrusso⁣ ⁣https://www.youtube.com/hilaryrusso⁣ https://www.facebook.com/hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://twitter.com/HilaryRusso⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣ Music by Lipbone: https://lipbone.com/⁣ ⁣ ⁣⁣ FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTS AVAILABLE ⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣ ⁣ 00:00 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ 19 years Seems like a moment in time, but for close to 19 years I was blessed to have a pure shadow of sunshine by my side. On my birthday, however, my sweet Eliza Doolittle decided it was time to take a journey without me, and a light in me dimmed. April 1st, just two days after my birthday and two months shy of 19 years, my five pound sassy calico found her way over the rainbow bridge and something changed in me, which is why I'm sharing this with you, because I have a feeling, if you've ever loved and lost a pet, you're going to resonate with what I'm about to share with you. It took me some time to sit down and record this episode. I have to be honest, I needed some time to step away. To be honest, I needed some time to step away. I needed to process this loss and I really needed to allow myself to see where this was going to hit me, because, while I have had pets my entire life since I was a little girl in fact, I don't really know that many years without having a pet in my home, nothing was quite like Eliza. She was mine and I was hers, and for close to two decades, I made this commitment to protect her, to love her, to care for her, and that came with some responsibilities Responsibilities I have never known before. Responsibilities, responsibilities I have never known before. It was level up, it was different, and the feelings that go along with that kind of responsibility, that kind of love, were different too. So, after sharing with those who are closest with me about her passing my family, my friends, my Hug it Out Collective, even colleagues and clients I realized that community is where we really find our healing, and it's a reminder that we were never alone in this battle. Right, even if the responsibilities are different, even if there are hours and hours alone, even if they were just for us to bear, we're really never doing it all by ourselves, because someone you know or yourself has been through it, and I want to share with you just how common it is. ⁣ ⁣ 02:40⁣ It's estimated that more than half of the global population has a pet at home. That's over half a billion dogs and cats, and in the US, 70% of households in 2021 were pet owners, and since the pandemic, the amount of pet adoptions is on the rise, thankfully. So I know I'm not alone when I share that these numbers, no matter what type of pet you have, be it fur, feathers, fins or scales. You likely have, or you have, faced pet loss. And isn't that the rub To know that you will love an animal so much, knowing that it's likely they will leave this world before you and we know that, going into it too right. I know I did, and yet I still loved. And when the time is right, somewhere down the road, I will again, because that's what we do as pet parents. We open our hearts again and again, just not now, not yet. Just not now, not yet. ⁣ ⁣ 03:50⁣ So with that in mind, I thought I would share my story about Miss Eliza Doolittle and some thoughts I have about grief, what I've learned from my time with Lizzy Girl, and some possibilities for us as we go forward on this journey, plus a chance for you to share your story on an upcoming episode. And if this episode resonates with you or any of the guests that I've had here on HIListically Speaking, or any of the episodes we've done, I would love for you to do yourself a favor and do me a favor and subscribe wherever you're tuning in and take it one step further Download those episodes that you listen to, because that's going to make it more possible for others to find this show, this episode and these stories that we tell so beautifully on, HIListically Speaking. Of course, I always appreciate your kind words and your thoughtful responses in your comments, wherever you're tuning in, wherever you're listening or watching, whether it's on a podcast platform or on YouTube, and, honestly, now more than ever, I can really use those words and I know others will too. So how did Miss Eliza Doolittle come into my life? It's quite a sweet story. Actually. ⁣ ⁣ 04:59⁣ It was Thanksgiving Day, 2005. And I was coming home from Thanksgiving dinner at a friend's house and I was driving along in my old Jeep, grand Cherokee. Louise and I pass a hotel and I noticed something moving as I'm about to pass a storm drain and I noticed it was like a little calico puff and I saw its little mouth opening and closing. And let me tell you, I wasn't going that fast, but it was enough for me to know that there was a kitten that was sitting there by that storm drain and I instantly called my friend who was in the car in front of me and I said I gotta turn around. There is a kitten and I don't think it's going to last the winter if it stays out here. Within 30 seconds to a minute. I had turned around, went into the parking lot because I didn't see the kitten at the storm drain. But I heard her and fortunately I had leftovers in my car and I looked under every car in that hotel parking lot right near the storm drain and there she was, hiding underneath the truck. And somehow, with love and care, I was able to force her to come out from underneath the truck because, well, I imagined she was hungry and I had plenty of turkey. And then I put a towel around her, grabbed her and put her in my car. ⁣ ⁣ 06:28⁣ What in the world am I going to do with a kitten? I was not in any kind of a situation to have a cat. I was in a relationship with someone who was highly allergic to cats. So I knew that I had a job to do, and hopefully it would be to find this sweet little kitten a home. But in the two weeks that I had her, nobody came forward. I went to every vet in the area and somehow in those two weeks, those 14 days, I fell in love with this cat and I have a feeling she did the same. So in a way I would say she saved me as much as I saved her, because during that time of my life it was quite difficult what I was going through. ⁣ ⁣ 07:12⁣ I guess things just show up for you at just the right time and I always joke that she's the longest relationship I've ever had. She has gone well beyond both of my long-term relationships. She has traveled more miles with me, crossed more states with me and I wouldn't trade it for anything else. She has had books written about her and chapters, artwork, poems, commercials that she's done. Have you ever seen the Blue Buffalo commercial? That's her. She's been on numerous podcasts, including sitting right behind me and sometimes in my lap. She's joined me in private sessions and even showed up while I was professing with my college students. And, yes, she's been the subject of many social media posts. So it's kind of hard to know life with Hilary without Eliza Doolittle. ⁣ ⁣ 08:07⁣ But as we know, with the years come slowing down and this past year I started seeing signs of her decline. It was happening slowly. I kind of knew over the last year or two that time with her would be even more precious than it was before. And the past few months things started to accelerate. The cancer in my sweet little Calico was starting to show in her face and I found myself feeling the stress, feeling the sickness. It was a fight or flight for me, much like when you're around a sick family member you feel it, you absorb it and you're constantly on alert. And that was a difficult place to be and it absorbed a lot of my headspace, my mental space and my bandwidth was not where it used to be because so much of my intention was on Eliza. ⁣ ⁣ 09:14⁣ So the time came when things really took a turn. On my birthday, March 30th, Eliza told me it was time and my boyfriend, Chris, just happened to be here because we were getting ready to celebrate my birthday that morning. She really made her presence known, that things were really getting difficult. I remember thinking that I don't have this right. You know, I went through a lot of grief before the grief actually set in and grief turned into guilt Because I thought who am I to take away a life? You know, in the perfect world you want your animal, your pet, your fur baby to just kind of curl up in your arms and take its last breath. Naturally right, but that's not the way it always happens and cats are notoriously strong to where they don't really even let you know that they're sick or they have signs of illness. ⁣ ⁣ 10:17⁣ That day it was a turning point for me because I saw that she was beginning to suffer and I wasn't really sure how long it would be. And I remember making an agreement in a way with my vet some months prior that this would be a decision that I would need help with, because I really struggled with the guilt of taking that life, still hoping somewhere in the back of my mind that she would just pass on her own. And I said, when it comes to the time where you think that this could be consuming her or taking away her quality of life, I really just need the honesty. And I got that. I got that that day and I had a moment with Eliza that was almost like an approval, you know, I don't really know how to explain it, but I had the weekend with her. The decision was made and lots of emotions were shared. ⁣ ⁣ 11:30⁣ The night before, Eliza shared a beautiful salmon dinner with Chris and myself. It was really a beautiful evening, a little candlelight dinner, and she got so many treats and so much love and attention. I don't even know if she can get more than she normally gets, but that night was really special and the morning came and we took her to the vet and she was in my arms and surrounded by her little babies and flowers, and I had my hand on her paws the whole time. Chris was caressing her little face and then, at some point, when I knew that time was close, I had my hand on her heart and there's something really powerful about being witness but also feeling that last heartbeat. It was spiritual, it was beautiful and I don't think I'll ever forget that. But in that moment I felt like I was truly connected to her in a different way as she crossed, and I'm really thankful for that. ⁣ ⁣ 12:54⁣ So after all was said and done, I realized I needed to step away a little bit and I was fortunate to spend some time with my boyfriend, chris, and I went to his home in Virginia and just decided to do a little grieving there. It was really a wonderful opportunity for me to go through these stages of grief, and I'm sure there's still more go through these stages of grief and I'm sure there's still more. But I went from the grief to the guilt and then somewhere in there there was a shift to gratitude which took me back a few years, to the time I first wrote about Eliza in a book that was published and it was part of my friend Chris Palmore's book called Dear Gratitude, an anthology, a book that holds space for so many beautiful gratitude stories. And you might remember Chris because he was on episode 17, if , sharing his own grief journey, and it about the loss of his mother and it's interesting how we should circle back to that right. But I was fortunate to share, on page 21 7 of Dear Gratitude, the story of Eliza Doolittle and how she got her name and basically the story you heard here. But I called it Gratitude is Loverly because loverly and my fair lady, if you get the reference, and that's basically how Eliza got her name, because I pretty much found her in a gutter, just like in my Fair Lady, and I thought it was a really beautiful story to share. But I'm so grateful to Chris for giving me that opportunity to share the story of Eliza in his book Dear Gratitude. ⁣ ⁣ 14:40⁣ And again, if you are interested in that episode, it is 17. And I'll put that in the podcast notes for you and when it comes down to it, you really have to think about it. It really is all about gratitude, isn't it? In some way or another, gratitude, after all, is part of the Hug it Out way. Right, if you want to join the Hug it Out collective that I have the Facebook group you'll find weekly themes and challenges in a safe place that supports the traumas to triumphs. And let me tell you, this week that group really showed their colors and showed up for me by supporting my grief, my trauma showed their colors and showed up for me by supporting my grief, my trauma. So you can check the notes of this episode to join us in that group and just see for yourself. ⁣ ⁣ 15:26⁣ But I do have so much gratitude, so much gratitude for all of you who have been part of her life in one way or another, even those who just saw her on camera for the first time or in a podcast episode maybe her Blue Buffalo commercials, whatever, wherever. I'm just grateful that you connected to her in some way through me. And then, of course, those that I shared this with those closest to me, like my mom. She loved that cat and she used to say, oh, kitty's coming to grandma's house, whenever she would watch her, she would call it the country home and it was really sweet to see the connection they had, because she too loved and lost pets my entire life. So that was something my mom and I shared, you know, and even recently, you know, she became a pet parent again after some time without a pet and I'm really glad she has that. Of course, my boyfriend, chris, for having some bond that I still haven't quite figured out In such a short amount of time on this planet, knowing Eliza. They had a bond like no other. And let me tell you, if you have a calico they're very temperamental, they're very territorial and they're very spicy, but somehow that cat got to his heart and he got to hers and it was really beautiful to see. And I have really good friends, really good friends who have been there for me along the way, and I hope you have that in your life too. If you have loved and lost a pet or lost anything that you've loved in your life to have, that support can be very helpful. I know my vet and everyone who got to know this spicy little calico. I have to say thank you to them for just being there and being a support system and, of course, you just for being here to support me and giving me the permission to press record and share and know that you're tuning in. So thank you for that. ⁣ ⁣ 17:33⁣ But back to this week. During this week I found myself watching a lot of YouTube videos on how to connect with your pets from beyond, how to change your frequency and be present. I did a lot of writing, I did a lot of soul searching and I really spent my time in Virginia disconnecting to reconnect Because, like I said, said so much of my emotional bandwidth was really absorbed by Eliza's illness and not really being able to separate from that and it was kind of like giving me the ability to take a breath that I hadn't taken in a really long time. But I had a moment. It happened when I was at Chris's house. It was the first morning I was there after we arrived and there was a trundle bed in the guest room where Eliza loved to sleep in the drawer which was filled with linens. She really made that area her home. In fact I'm not really even sure that the linens have been touched in there because it was just so Eliza right, but I remember that morning opening a drawer and I could still see tiny little calico hairs in there Not too much because she was a very clean cat, but you could see the impression from her body that was on top of a blanket that she had probably been sleeping on and my heart just sank. ⁣ ⁣ 19:15⁣ I remember just being on my knees and putting my hands in the drawer and putting my head down and I sat there for a minute just being so grateful to have her in my life. And I don't know how and I can't explain it, but I felt something brush my ankle, my leg, as if it was her little tail that was brushing by. I was wearing shorts, so it didn't quite make sense to me. There was no fabric around me and I just kind of went huh and smiled and just let it be. You know, not everything has to be explained, and I realized that some things just don't need to be explained, right, they just are just like our pets, they don't look for explanations, they just are there, awesome, authentic, organic selves. So it got me thinking on how, the last 19 years, what I've witnessed with Eliza has been the utmost amount of awesomeness and, frankly, with the other animals that have been in my life as well, and the lessons that I've learned as a pet parent, and I really had to stop and think for a moment that I've truly witnessed some amazing things from the being that she is and other animals have been in my life. ⁣ ⁣ 20:55⁣ And that's where I want to take this episode is to leave you with the top 10 things I've learned from my life with Eliza, and that number one thing is you've got to find the sunshine. I know every time I would turn around, that cat was looking for sunshine, she was basking in the sun, she was sleeping in the sun. She would find that ray just coming through a window and it could be on a floor and she was there. And it's just a reminder how easy it is to find the sunshine if we're just present in the moment. And that leaves me to number two be present and be still the being over the doing is really why we're here, isn't it? And animals do that. They just are so organic about being and we're just too much in the doing, and I share more about that on episode 128. I'll put that in the podcast notes as well, on the importance of being a human being over human doing. ⁣ ⁣ 22:06⁣ Number three is play Adulting gets the best of us, doesn't it? So I want you to stop as often as you can and laugh and play and find that childish enthusiasm that lives within you. Without a care in the world, animals just play. They don't worry about what other animals are thinking, they just are. I learned that no matter how upset I am in a situation, it doesn't need to consume me. That's number four. Be in that place where you can move forward, just like the animals around you move forward Just like the animals around you. They don't spend time in the upset, they just keep moving forward. I learned to let your guard down to trust, and if you've ever spoken to your pet in a childlike voice or as if they are a child, you know exactly what I'm talking about. They aren't judging you, so why are you judging yourself? Just trust that you're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing. ⁣ ⁣ 23:21⁣ Number six I learned that we're all just walking each other home. I know I say that often, but I use that here because it makes such perfect sense. But when you think about it that way that we're all just walking each other home on this planet, no matter what kind of being we are, we become kinder beings. I learned that in grief beings I learned that in grief we find one another and we share the most vulnerable and beautiful parts of ourselves. It's a reminder of the power of community, right? If you've ever seen animals together, how they play, how they laugh, how they cuddle, it's just so easy to find that comfort and support. We need that too. We need that too. ⁣ ⁣ 24:14⁣ I learned the importance of sleep from that cat Now cats I hear sleep up to like 19 hours a day. I would imagine that's just about right when I think about my time with Eliza and she seems pretty refreshed when she gets up right, just does her thing. But it's just about right when I think about my time with Eliza and she seems pretty refreshed when she gets up right, just does her thing. But it's just a reminder to me that sleep is so important for our well-being. So be sure that you're getting good rest, just like your pets. ⁣ ⁣ 24:45⁣ Number nine find your people or your person. I know I've said this before. I said it earlier in this podcast episode. Eliza saved me as much as I saved her. I became her person. I don't think that was accidental. And number 10, I think, is really important, if not the most important. ⁣ ⁣ 25:09⁣ I've learned that you need to love without condition. You need to love without fear and worry. And when you do this and you just let go and realize that being vulnerable is being courageous, you are just allowing yourself to be the most pure sense of self by loving. And in time grief will come, but that grief will turn to gratitude when you remember that loving is a reason to be grateful, even if it was only for a short time, because love will always fill your home again. You're just that kind of person. You're that kind of person. I'm that kind of person. And somewhere out there an animal is going to want to call you their own, want to call you their own, and maybe, just maybe, they'll be sent to you from someone or something that has loved you from before in your past. When you think about it that way, it's heart opening. ⁣ ⁣ 26:22⁣ In closing, I imagine you've connect with this episode in some way, shape or form. And if you do you've connect with this episode in some way, shape or form and if you do, if it did resonate with you in any way, I would love to know and I'd also love to offer you an opportunity to share your story about your special pet on an upcoming episode In the sharing in the community, we do find that we are never truly alone. So what I'm asking you to do is pretty simple and kind of fun. I would love for you to go to speakpipe dot com slash hilisticallyspeaking. I'll put this in the listen notes and share your voice and your story about a pet that you have loved any point in your life. Really, it could be one that you connected with as a child to more recently, but in sharing about them you're keeping their spirit alive. ⁣ ⁣ 27:14⁣ You know, miss Eliza might not be here on this earth in this moment, sitting on this lap or behind me on my chair in this moment, but she's with me. I will continue to share her stories. I'm sure she's going to come up again and I would love that for you as well. So just press record, share your journey, and then you can take it one step further and share a picture of you with your pet, so that when I release the episode, that memory will be remembered, along with your voice and your story. And once you record, once you go to speakpipe dot com, I will personally reach out to you to share details on how you can share that photo and get in on the show. ⁣ ⁣ 27:53⁣ Do yourself a favor. Give that special being that gave you so much unconditional love a moment in the spotlight. I look forward to hearing your stories, seeing your connection, and I imagine others will as well. So, on that note, thank you for showing up, for tuning in, for being part of my journey, allowing me to feel safe and vulnerable to share my story, this episode. I leave you with the words that you probably have heard before and they are quite memorable from Winnie the Pooh, heard before, and they are quite memorable from Winnie the Pooh how lucky I am to have something that makes saying goodbye so hard. That's the gratitude right there until next time. I love you, I believe in you and I appreciate your open heart. Be well.

⁣Your journey through menopause can be transformative and empowering. When I first heard that statement, I rolled my eyes! But, hear me out on this. You and I both know there is no magic pill to make it go away. And “no”, you can’t sell your uterus on Ebay either. (Yes, that was a question I got in an email).  What you can do is find ways to better understand all the changes and holistically age with beauty and grace.  From hormones to hot flashes, brain fog to body changes, it’s like puberty for adults.  On this episode of the HIListically Speaking Podcast, Hilary welcomes Certified Menopause Coach Specialist Erika Shannon-Hathaway who not only answers your questions but shares actionable steps and practical tips from symptom management and macrodosing to mental clarity and menoparties for self-care.⁣ ⁣ FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTS AVAILABLE ⁣https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣ CHAPTERS:  ⁣ 00:00  Intro  ⁣ 02:08  The Importance of Health Coaches (51 Seconds)⁣ 06:40  Navigating Adult Puberty and Parenting⁣ 14:44  Importance of Self-Care and Mindset⁣ 26:50 Erika Answers Your Questions (Audience Q&A)⁣ 37:00 Managing Menopause, Hormones and Sleep⁣ 46:48 Struggling With Brain Fog⁣ 53:05 Nutrition and Exercise in Menopause⁣ 54:04 Weight Gain and Estrogen Loss⁣ 57:45 Rapid Fire Game ⁣ 01:00:00 Erika’s Closing Thoughts ⁣ 01:01:00 Hilary’s final thought and info⁣ ⁣Download my FREE guided Self-Havening for Hot Flashes and Hormones video https://www.hilaryrusso.com/hormones CONNECT WITH ERIKA: ⁣ https://www.instagram.com/erikashannonmovement⁣ ⁣https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikashannon/⁣ ⁣https://www.facebook.com/erikashannonmovement⁣ ⁣https://www.erikashannon.com/menoparty⁣ ⁣https://www.erikashannon.com/yournextchapter-landing-page⁣ Interested in getting better sleep? Listen to Ep 140 with Sleep Expert Mollie Eastman. ⁣ ⁣FREE HAVENING HAPPY HOUR & EVENTS⁣ Join the next Free Havening Happy Hour. Next event: March 27th at 7pm ET. Registration is required https://www.hilaryrusso.com/events⁣⁣ ⁣CONNECT WITH HILARY⁣ https://www.instagram.com/hilaryrusso⁣ ⁣https://www.youtube.com/hilaryrusso⁣ https://www.facebook.com/hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣⁣Music by Lipbone Redding https://lipbone.com/⁣ ⁣ ⁣ EPISODE TRANSCRIPT ⁣ (Full Transcript https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣) ⁣ 00:00 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ There are so many things now that give us community around it that it helps us regulate our symptoms and therefore improve our quality of life as we're going through the inevitable journey of menopause. ⁣ ⁣ 00:13 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ As a living, breathing human. You are someone, you know someone or you love someone on the menopause journey and I'm now on the other side of this myself. But I still have questions about how to stay healthy mind, body and spirit All the questions there. Because it's more than just hormones, it's befriending your body, it's understanding the signs and acceptance of this beautiful aging process that we go through as women. And if this isn't you, this conversation is going to help you, support those who are going through this journey. So I've invited my friend, Erika Shannon Hathaway on the show to have a little girl chat, answer your questions and help you walk away from this conversation with a clear understanding of how you can embrace the change. Now some of you tuning in might know Erika because we've spent some time together a number of years on Daily Burn 365, that live streaming fitness show we were both on. ⁣ ⁣ 01:13⁣ But Erika, my dear friend, you have not only been in this fitness industry for close to two decades, you started making that womanly change yourself and said that you want to do more, not just for yourself, but for those you serve, because you've been a coach, as a fitness instructor for years, as someone who has been in this field for so long, and now as a certified menopause coach specialist, you are helping women pave a new way. So thanks for being here. This is so great. I really love that we're going to be talking about menopause. ⁣ ⁣ 01:46 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Thank you. It is so great to be here with you, Hilary, and it's always just like a reunion to see the old gang from DV365. I love you all so much and thank you for doing what you do with this podcast. I think you help and serve so many people who really need it and it's just a real privilege to be here. So thanks for having me. ⁣ ⁣ 02:08 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Well, I love having my DB365 friends on, but this goes so much bigger, as you know. You know being the work of holistic health and thank you for that. I appreciate that. You know it's just we're here to serve and I remember us having a conversation about just health in general and when we were on the show and I was actually a participant on the show while you're one of our amazing trainers we were given health coaches and this was a fairly new industry. You know the health coaching world, which I wound up being on the other side as a health coach myself. But having support and having guidance and having somebody who understands what you're going through to be that guide by yourself, by your side, is really helpful, like having someone be that guide to answer questions you might have, or just kind of be the sister or the brother that you need. You know, and you've embraced that as well, when you were going through this menopause journey, you found yourself a health coach. ⁣ ⁣ 03:06 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Yes, I did. I didn't know. I knew that I was experiencing the beginnings of perimenopause, but I also thought, oh, I'm just so stressed out and I'm not giving myself the self-care I need and I feel like there's something hormonally off with me. So I hired a holistic health coach to help me out and really, at the time, what I wanted was for her to get all of my levels and do all my hormone testing and my blood testing and just give me a magic pill to make it all better. That's what I really wanted and this is me having been in the fitness and wellness industry, for you know, at that point it had been about 15 years. It's been 18 years now. But I was like, okay, I don't have time to do anything other than what I'm doing and I don't want to stop drinking, and so give me a pill, tell me what's wrong, tell me what I'm missing, and let's supplement it. And she, she was great in that. She really honored like I told her what I wanted and she gave me it, but it didn't fully help because there were certain lifestyle changes that I needed to make, but also my cortisol. I had no cortisol, like I had burned through it all and I was operating with the lowest cortisol imaginable and and it was totally throwing me off I was gaining weight and it was a mess. ⁣ ⁣ 04:30⁣ So, um, we worked through a lot of things and I did make significant improvements during that coaching time, but it wasn't until, um, I started really tuning into my own body, that I started fine tuning even more and then, just in the last year and a half, my journey with getting more involved from an educational standpoint about what perimenopause and menopause actually do to your body and how I can help not only myself but all of the people that I've been teaching for so long. We're all growing together and aging together, and so everybody needs it. A hundred percent of people with ovaries are going to go through this, so I'm really grateful to have the knowledge that I have. Now. I've basically made fun of myself and apologize to my health coach about how idealistic and stupid I was just being. Like give me a pill. How much testosterone? What is it? It's like a testosterone booster supplement. How much tribulus do I need to take to make myself feel better? But yeah, it's crazy. ⁣ ⁣ 05:36 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And I think that's true with pretty much anything. I mean, we live in a sick care system, not a healthcare system. We live in a hell care system, not a health care system. I was just going to say Right, we live in a hellscape. It's a hellscape, it's so true, and we're trying so hard to find the way out or find a way to easily make this go away that, whatever the problem is and that's something I went through as well we come from an age where it was like you go to the doctor, you get, you get a diagnosis and I'm not poo-pooing Western Med by any means, but that whole integrative approach and the blend of functional medicine and holistic health is us being our own healthcare advocates to understand and ask questions. You know I can't say this enough, but with this, what did you call it? A hellscape? ⁣ ⁣ 06:26 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Yeah, okay great, it just came to my mind. I love it. Write that down. ⁣ ⁣ 06:31 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That's a good one, but it is because it's it's we're putting too much in the hands of someone else when we really need to to ask the questions. And you know, I remember when my mom was going through it and'm just like you're crazy, you know, like she's going through that thing, right, we're pointing fingers at women like oh, you're just, you know, it's your time of month, which is a horrible thing to say, but when we're going through this part of our lives, which I always say, it's almost like puberty for adults. ⁣ ⁣ 07:00 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ you know I was just having right. ⁣ ⁣ 07:02 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I was just having a conversation at my fitness facility with a number of women. I said this is like puberty, except we just have a better understanding. We have a fully developed brain and we actually learn how to not react and respond to what's happening. ⁣ ⁣ 07:17 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ It's reverse puberty really. ⁣ ⁣ 07:19⁣ My daughter is 11, and she is ramping up for major puberty times. ⁣ ⁣ 07:24⁣ My daughter is 11 and she is ramping up for major puberty times and it is crazy to watch her go through that and see her hormonal changes happening in real time. ⁣ ⁣ 07:32⁣ And also it makes me laugh at the timing of what most of us, if we have kids, if you're going through perimenopause and menopause, most likely one of your daughters or sons is going through puberty at the same time and it's just a hormone. It's a hormone invasion in your house and but there are coping mechanisms and I feel really grateful that I'm able to have conversations with my daughter about menopause and periods and women's health stuff that my Catholic mom never had with me, not because she didn't want me to be educated in it, but because she had never been educated herself. And she even told me when she went through menopause she didn't even know she was going through menopause because nobody talked about it. She said I don't know, I just kind of went through it, I don't, I didn't complain, I didn't know that anything was really wrong. And and now she said she sent me something on Instagram the other day. She said I have never seen so much about menopause in my life and I said I know, isn't it amazing? It's amazing, it is. ⁣ ⁣ 08:44 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I mean, I think for us and our generation going through puberty it was are you there, god? It's me, margaret, yes, which, by the way, I love that movie, it's so good. I took my daughter. I felt myself there, I know. ⁣ ⁣ 08:59 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Right. ⁣ ⁣ 09:02 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And a health class which everyone was giggling, which I'm sure kids still do. But here we are at this later stage in our lives, this next phase, and it's really truly understanding who we are, how we're showing up, but also getting the support of those around us, whether it's your girlfriends, whether it's your spouse or your partner, them understanding it and also, like you said, having those conversations with your daughter, where she knows where you are and you know where she is, and it really creates a whole different sisterhood, doesn't it? ⁣ ⁣ 09:31 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ It does and it creates a better relationship, because this morning she was having a moment and she was like I hate my hair and it looks terrible, and la, la, la, like all morning. She was just in a mood and I just hugged her. I said I love you, would you like me to plug in the straightener for you? And she was like I love you too. Yeah, that'd be great. ⁣ ⁣ 09:52 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Thank you, she just needed to be heard. Yeah, we need that too. ⁣ ⁣ 09:56 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ And so do we. ⁣ ⁣ 09:58⁣ So do we, and it's wonderful that we are at this point where we can look at the latest research and where we can advocate for ourselves, like you were saying, with our doctors and our healthcare team, and we can even educate some of our healthcare providers about these things, because the studies that are coming out, the studies that they might have come into the business their industry with, are now outdated and debunked, such as the Women's Health Initiative from the late 90s and early 2000s, and so it is our job to show up and know what is happening, to know what symptoms are actually symptoms of perimenopause. ⁣ ⁣ 10:42⁣ There are estrogen receptors in every major organ system in the body, and so it's not just hot flashes, and the majority of people don't know that. And so how lucky are we that we get to live in a time when we can log on to Instagram and see oh my gosh, I'm not the only one having heart palpitations when I have a glass of wine. Or, oh my gosh, I'm not the only one having heart palpitations when I have a glass of wine. Or, oh my gosh, I didn't know that ringing ears were a symptom of perimenopause. I thought that there was something wrong, that I had like a sinus infection or something. There are so many things now that give us community around it that it helps us regulate our symptoms and therefore improve our quality of life as we're going through the inevitable journey of menopause. ⁣ ⁣ 11:27 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And knowing how to support that, which is huge. ⁣ ⁣ 11:31⁣ Right, I love that you bring that up too, because there are a lot of things that are outside of the box of what we think happens in perimenopause and menopause. I remember having that first hot flash and I felt like I was standing over a subway grate in New York City and then it was gone. And then five seconds later I'm in a hot yoga class and then it's gone. That's what we think, that's ideally what we think when we are thinking about the menopause journey, but it is so much more that brain fog that we were just talking about, right. ⁣ ⁣ 12:04⁣ That sets in. How do we support ourselves there? Moods like our moods, behaviors. That's going to switch too, because something's going on with this vehicle of ours, right? Yes? ⁣ ⁣ 12:15 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Everything's going on at the same time. Our entire system is recalibrating to survive without essential life-giving hormones in our bodies and everything is affected by that. And the more that we can recognize it, name it and know what to do to make ourselves feel better, it's just going to make everything better for us in the long run, which is why I love this work that I'm doing now as a certified menopause coach specialist. It's just so gratifying to help people. And there are the pillars of self-care right. There's exercise, there's nutrition, there's sleep. ⁣ ⁣ 12:57⁣ Sleep is a major component of being able to regulate your symptoms and menopause and perimenopause and self-care, even what you do with havening. It is so important. It is so important to comfort yourself and regulate your nervous system, because anxiety kicks in in a big way during perimenopause, not to mention just the stage of life that we're in, where so many of us are. We talk about the sandwich generation, where people are taking care of aging parents and their kids at the same time. I am deeply in that right now, my mother-in-law has dementia and has just been diagnosed with stage three cancer, and then I have an 11-year-old with a broken wrist athlete who is just on the other like bouncing off the walls, and so in the middle, I have to have really good tools to be able to regulate myself so that I can live a life that I love without getting distracted, and also take care of everybody around me at the same time. And it does take a village. ⁣ ⁣ 13:59 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Absolutely, and it is what women do. We are more of the nurturing that feminine energy is to nurture. We are the ones the nurturing that feminine energy is to nurture. We are the ones that are in the container, filling the container right, and it's really important to know how to support yourself so you can support others. And, by the way, I appreciate you mentioning Havening as one of those tools. There are many tools right. There are many. ⁣ ⁣ 14:20⁣ But being able to self-regulate and self-soothe and for self-care is so imperative, no matter what it is Like, if it's taking a yoga class, if it's journaling, if it's just taking five minutes to step away from the chaos to bring that sense of calm. Whatever it is is really vital for your well-being holistically. You know the whole body approach. ⁣ ⁣ 14:44 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Yes, I agree with you, and I think that's something that a lot of people don't understand is when you are coaching someone, or even I was talking to one of my best friends from high school the other day and she is in a major state of anxiety right now. She's also hormonally fully in menopause, but she's another sandwich generation person. Her husband's having some health issues at the moment and her therapist told her that she needed to start meditating or doing some sort of self-regulating something to tamp down her nervous system. And she was like I'm sorry, but like breathing isn't going to help me right now. And I was like, well, actually breathing really is going to help you right now. ⁣ ⁣ 15:25⁣ And I think that carving out little pockets of self-care I call it micro-dosing, so self-care is so important and has tremendous benefits for just regulating your anxiety during the day. And while I said, look, I know there's a lot wrong right now and, yes, breathing isn't going to solve all of the problems, but it is going to take you from a 10 to a seven so that you can take a deep breath, so that you can pay attention to a phone call, so that you can maybe get 20 minutes of rest in between one thing and the other. It does make a difference. Those little things, the havening, all of those things make a big difference. ⁣ ⁣ 16:11 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ All it takes is two minutes to do anything to regulate your nervous system. It doesn't take. But we get in that the brain gets hijacked, right, and the minute that happens it's like going down this, this hill and the ball just keeps getting bigger. It's really having the, the mindset to say wait is. Is this true, is it helpful, is it inspiring, is it necessary and is it kind? ⁣ ⁣ 16:35⁣ When I'm saying that think method that we learn, you know to stop it and put the kibosh on it before it goes too far. So, with you being a certified menopause coach and there's not many certifications out there, so you're really like in it, Erika, and I want to bring attention to that Because, while there are a lot of people talking about menopause, having this certification, having this knowledge, is a level up, and I say that myself with my certifications, I know we're more than our LMNOPs after our name but, there is something about this so that if you are able to go to a doctor, there is somebody like an Erika out there that understands us more on a whole body approach level. ⁣ ⁣ 17:21⁣ I would's right I would love for you to share that, just so people have an idea great. ⁣ ⁣ 17:27 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Yes, there is one certification program right now in the united states that is accredited, which means that for my certification as a fitness professional, I get actual credits for it. It is an evidence-based coaching program created by Molly Galbraith with Girls Gone Strong, and she is an incredible coach and has incredible programs. And the team of doctors who she recruited to help put the certification together I think there were 14 doctors, so it's all evidence-based coaching. It is not theoretical. This is evidence-based coaching about the pillars of your life that you need to integrate. ⁣ ⁣ 18:14⁣ Now my scope of practice is not to prescribe supplements, hormone replacement therapy. Prescribe supplements, hormone replacement therapy any kind of medication. I am not a physician, but what I like to do is work in tandem with your physician. I like to refer you to a pelvic health specialist. I will refer you to people in my network who can help you and work with them together, because if you choose hormone replacement therapy, then my job is to give you the tools to use those hormones in your body to your best and highest good and benefit. ⁣ ⁣ 18:57⁣ So I concentrate on exercise. Clearly, I've been in the fitness industry for 18 years, so I'm well equipped for that. But the type of exercise that you do at this time of life is very different. Of course there's all the elements of cardio and strength and balance and push, pull and all those things. But in menopause the warmups are longer and we want to really concentrate on strength training to build bone density, lean muscle mass and to mitigate the risks of coronary heart disease, diabetes, dementia. There are so many things that exercise does, especially at this time of our life, that have been proven scientifically. Exercise is a definite boon to help us stay healthy as we age exercise is a definite boon to help us stay healthy as we age. ⁣ ⁣ 19:49 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, so the staying in the scope of practice I think is so important the fact that you mentioned that. I appreciate that, because I say that a lot too. I'm not a doctor, I'm not a therapist, a board certified, but people who trust you and know that you are truly doing the work, because it's not just getting one certification and you're done, which there? Are people out there that do that. It is a continuous thing, my friends, that we are con. ⁣ ⁣ 20:12 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Things are constantly changing and coming out in yes, so those especially in this field oh, yeah, everybody has their eyes on it now, so everybody's finally studying it and everyone's a coach right so everyone's with air quotes right, so finding someone who understands it. Yeah, it gets my goat when people I get it and I'm like well, where did you get certified? And they're like what do you mean? ⁣ ⁣ 20:37 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Or even beyond the certification. It's not just taking a weekend class and suddenly you've got something after your name. It really is understanding, because you can do more damage than good. So, if I were to refer somebody who needed support in the area of perimenopause or menopause also, fitness, because let's not forget how well versed you are in that I mean this, we you and I met during our journey with daily burn, but you were already in the fitness world. You've worked with other fitness companies afterwards as somebody that's had a pretty high position as well. Yeah, you understand this. So, putting those things together, if I were to get a question about this and it's outside my scope of practice right, having people like you are important, you know and you're right. ⁣ ⁣ 21:25 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ It builds, it takes a village you know it does, and I operate from a place of incredibly high integrity. I learned that early on in my career that you have to put your money where your mouth is. You have to do what you say you're going to do, and when you have other people's health and wellness in your hands, in the palm of your hand, it is your responsibility to make sure you are fully accredited, because health is too valuable to mess around with, and I want to help people in the purest way, want to help people in the purest way. Having said that, the thing we do as a coach is everybody comes with a different set of symptoms. Everybody comes with a different experience, with a different panel of blood work and hormone levels, at a different stage of life, with different needs and wants, and so, as a coach, I coach to what's probable and not what's possible, and it's very, very much. ⁣ ⁣ 22:31⁣ I am your tour guide, but it's very much up to you to do the work. I'm not going to prescribe you. Yeah, I'm not going to do what I wanted my coach to do back in the day. I wouldn't say like, give me a magic vitamin and it's going to go away. No, we make commitments to do work. We make a plan, we see what's probable, we see what's most likely, what you're most likely to succeed at doing, based on what your values are based on what your values are, not mine, and then we try stuff out. ⁣ ⁣ 23:03 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Right. We call it bio bio individuality in the world of integrative nutrition, which is another great program for certification. But when I was going through the Institute for integrative nutrition, they coined this term. Bio individuality, yeah, which means every person is different, even if we are the same age, same gender, different Even if we are the same age, same gender, same life experiences. Your vehicle, this temple of yours that no one else owns, is operating a little differently. ⁣ ⁣ 23:31 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Absolutely. Even if our hormone numbers are the same, our bodies operate differently. ⁣ ⁣ 23:40 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, and it's really meeting people where they're at with their needs, not what you think. Oh, you're this age, you're this gender, this is what you need and it's not cookie cutter. I get that I get asked that a lot as a practitioner, especially working on the mental health side. How does your session go? And I'm like your session with me today can be different from the one next week can be different from the as it should as it should. ⁣ ⁣ 24:04⁣ So there's no cookie cutter. You know there might be a process, but understanding who is before you and how you're showing up for them, you would want that to be the same as somebody showing up for you. That's how I treat it. Yeah, yeah. ⁣ ⁣ 24:18 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Our job is to ask a lot of questions to figure out what's really important to people. Everybody I work with goes through an exercise creating their menopause vision statement, and it starts with really evaluating what's important to you as you age and how we're gonna keep you optimized for what's really important to you as you age. And that's how I start. So sometimes I'll start with nutrition, sometimes I'll start with exercise, sometimes I'll start with nutrition, sometimes I'll start with exercise, sometimes I'll start with sleep. You know, it just depends on what they need first, and then we keep knocking, knocking it out, and that's just how we work. But there's no so far in my practice. No two people need the same thing at the same time. ⁣ ⁣ 25:01 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, it's constant work too, because keeping up with our clients and making sure you're supporting them on their needs and being that guide for what they need, compared to someone else. But what's beautiful and I want to mention this because this is a good place to mention this you do have this incredible and, oh my gosh, this girl loves play on words, so I love this. You have your menaarty, yes, and I want to talk about that because it's very similar. You and I are so, so similar in a lot of ways, but still different by individuality. I have the you know the the monthly Havening happy hours. You have something called a menoparty, which is every two weeks. Let's talk about that so that people know there is support if they're not able to work with you one-on-one. ⁣ ⁣ 25:47 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Yes, oh, do. I love the menoparties. So the menoparties are a free Zoom online party. They're at eight o'clock at night every other Tuesday usually, and sometimes I have special guests on. So last week I had Dr Liz McGinley on, who is a pelvic health specialist and a chiropractic sports physician, and we talked all about what happens to our joints, tendons and pelvic region as we go through menopause and she was incredible. ⁣ ⁣ 26:21⁣ Sometimes we have what I call an all skate where I do flash coaching. So everybody comes on, we wear our pajamas, we have our little. I have like hoodies that say ain't no party like a meadow party. I wear that and we just show up and build community around this phase of life, which is so vital, and we have such a good time. We laugh really hard and I record them and if you can't make it live, I send it out the next day. ⁣ ⁣ 26:50⁣ But it's just a really wonderful place to meet other women who are in a similar situation to get a little bit of information about how to handle certain things that that someone else might be getting coached on but you're also identifying with as well, and I have made sure every single session is free. No strings attached. There's no, you know you don't have to buy anything to get it, it's just you sign up and you are invited, and you're always invited and you will forever and ever be invited and we just laugh a lot and sometimes it goes into we talk about sex, we talk about sleep, we talk about stress, we talk about family drama, we talk about our kids and our parents and we talk about dry eyes and ringing ears and palpitations and incontinence and peeing when you're doing jumping jacks and like thousands and thousands of things. But it's so much fun and always free and I it's really important to me because I I really believe that putting a paywall behind vital information, I have a problem with that and, of course, I need to do it for certain offerings of mine, because I do need to make a living. ⁣ ⁣ 28:07⁣ But, um, so right now, the options are the. I always want to have a free option, so the free option is the meadow parties, which are great fun, and then I have um, a coaching program that I am launching very soon. That is, we. It's a group coaching, so it's a monthly fee and you get group coaching every single month and you get access to my online community and we talk there all the time and share recipes and stories and support each other, and it's really lovely. And then, of course, I do my one-on-one as well. ⁣ ⁣ 28:37 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Love it, lots of different tiers, the fact that you're offering something for free. And I feel the same way because I've had people mentioned to me like, why aren't you charging for this? I'm like because I have other ways to to provide myself with income from people working with me one on one. This is an opportunity because it is a right. This is a human right that every person should have access to to some degree. ⁣ ⁣ 29:08⁣ Obviously, coaching someone one-on-one in a group experience can be difficult anyway but, you want to have more of a possibility for people to share and connect and know that they're not going through this alone. They're not alone in this battle. So, and making it fun talking about menopause, talking about mental health, whatever it might be, is what breaks down the barriers that have been there for so long, probably the barriers that we went through as Gen Xers and before you know, generations before the silent generation. So I love this. I love that you love the name more than anything. ⁣ ⁣ 29:50 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ I love it and we're going to put all this in there. We're going to have links in the. ⁣ ⁣ 29:52 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ yes, we're going to put the links to Erika's one on one sessions, as well as the mental parties, just so you can get in touch with her. We're going to have that available to you in the podcast notes so that you can get yourself on the party right. Get right, baby, get right with me. ⁣ ⁣ 30:07 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ So what I want to do? ⁣ ⁣ 30:08 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ we got a lot of questions that came in and as recent as I was just at my trainer and there were a bunch of girls asking me questions, I'm like let me write it down. Some of them overlap because they are mainly the same questions that a lot of us have, but some are a little more specific. So let's just go to the questions. You ready for it? I'm ready. All right, let's do this. This is actually from Christine. She's from Michigan and she did ask yeah, that's your. You know right, I went to Michigan, you did go to Michigan. So Christine from Michigan says what sort of exercise is best when you're in menopause, or is it that any kind of exercise is good as long as you're doing something? Very good question, Christine, Great question. ⁣ ⁣ 30:53 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ You want to try for 150 minutes of exercise per week. You want to get in a good amount of cardio, but not high intensity anaerobic cardio. You want to stay in that zone two, zone three moment. So think power walking, put on a weighted vest and take a walk. Go, walk on an incline so that you get your heart rate up. ⁣ ⁣ 31:15⁣ I do a special strength training in my program, move and Win, which is a little movement platform that I have and that all of my clients get for free, called Peripheral Heart Action. And Peripheral Heart Action is strength training, but it is formatted in a way that you alternate exercises between lower body and upper body, with no breaks in between, so that your heart rate stays up, because what you're doing is you're drawing blood flow to your upper body and then to your lower body and then back, and it goes and goes like that. So it actually keeps your heart rate elevated and therefore provides great metabolic value because you're burning calories longer throughout the day. So those are your cardio options, and then strength training. Pick up the heavy weights. Those are your cardio options, and then strength training. Pick up the heavy weights. ⁣ ⁣ 32:06⁣ You're going to want to really strength train, because as we lose estrogen, we lose lean muscle mass, we lose bone density and that increases our likelihood in our postmenopausal life for coronary disease, diabetes, high cholesterol, injury in falls and fractures, osteopenia and osteoporosis. So you really, really want to just intensify your strength training. Pick up the weights. If you don't know how to pick up the weights, hit me up, I'll help you. It doesn't have to be fancy, you don't need fancy equipment, but integrating strength training into your life. ⁣ ⁣ 32:45⁣ I would say three times a week if you can is so valuable and get a little plyo in there for bone density. Yeah, Whether it's little box jumps or just taking sometimes on my stairs right here, I'll just do step up and jump back down, step up and jump back down just to get a little bit of that impact in. It makes a big difference in maintaining bone density. ⁣ ⁣ 33:10 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And if you have a difficult time jumping, you can do it with just a step up, step down right, absolutely. ⁣ ⁣ 33:17⁣ You don't want to get any injury. That's really important and that comes up a lot. The osteoporosis, obviously. While we are recording this, we've been talking a lot about women's health, women's history month in March and the fact that you know we just had heart health month and women are the highest number that is prone to getting heart disease and cardiac health is very important for women. So I love this question because you went even deeper. So, take note of this, Christine, and those listening Good luck. ⁣ ⁣ 33:52⁣ Yes, she's on the journey and she's in a couple of our other groups that we're in, so I know that she works out, so she's stepping it up a little bit. Great question, christine. We got one that just came in, so I'm actually going to the book of face. I'm going to be reading this like just this is a cold read, like back from our theater. ⁣ ⁣ 34:11 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Okay, you're an expert, you're going to crush it. ⁣ ⁣ 34:15 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Oh, my gosh, I don't know about that. All right, sarah, she has a question about sleep. That's why I'm doing this question, because it's so, so important. Every trainer that I've ever followed exclaims that the benefits of good sleep, the importance of sleep to a good workout, and she says she agrees. However, hot flashes and night sweats are the antithesis of a good night's rest. I'll hear you, girl how do I get a good night's sleep when I'm constantly getting up hour by hour with hot flashes and night sweats? Oh, that is a good question's. Sleep when I'm constantly getting up hour by hour with hot flashes and night sweats? Ooh, that is a good question, sarah, really good question. ⁣ ⁣ 34:48 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Yes, this is a multifaceted question. First of all, thank you for sharing about your sleep struggles. You are not alone. This is a major, major issue. Vasomotor symptoms go haywire during perimenopause and menopause, and so the first thing we would want to do is try to reduce the likelihood of your hot flashes, and so to do that, you take a multifaceted approach, with good nutrition, talking to your healthcare provider to see if you are a good candidate for hormone replacement therapy, because the best way to treat those symptoms is with HRT, if it is something that you're interested in doing. There are some medications that can make hot flashes worse. There are some foods and drinks that can make hot flashes worse Alcohol, I'm looking at you. So if you, unfortunately, alcohol makes hot flashes so much worse. ⁣ ⁣ 35:55⁣ Sugar makes hot flashes so much worse, and eating late meals. You want to increase your protein. You want to increase your fiber in your diet. Make sure that you have a really nice, balanced diet and try to mitigate stress by setting your sleep schedule. Also, lower the temperature in your bedroom. Lower the temperature in your bedroom, sleep naked or with a little tank top on, take your sheets off and give yourself a fan. You know there are lots of ways to prop yourself in a way that the hot flashes go away. But lowering your stress level, getting rid of sugar and alcohol and inflammatory foods, hrt that's going to get ridT that's going to help you alleviate your hot flashes. Without knowing more about your history or all of those things. This is a blanket statement and obviously regular exercise will help with your hot flashes as well. ⁣ ⁣ 37:00⁣ From a sleep perspective, my question would be do you go to sleep and wake up at the same time every day? ⁣ ⁣ 37:08⁣ And, if not, how can you adjust your lifestyle so that you can start that process? ⁣ ⁣ 37:14⁣ And the reason why I ask is because there are other hormones at play here the hormones melatonin and cortisol. ⁣ ⁣ 37:23⁣ High cortisol can cause more hot flashes If you are not sleeping, going to bed and waking up at the same time every day, your cortisol and your melatonin are going to be a little bit skewed. So, if you want so, when we go to sleep, our melatonin gets high, our cortisol gets low. When we wake up, our melatonin is low. Our cortisol should be at the highest point of the whole day when we wake up, and that's why sometimes when we do a hormone panel, we want to do it first thing in the morning so we can test our cortisol right when we wake up. So if we are eating late, if we are watching stressful television shows right up until we go to sleep, if we are having excited conversations, if we are drinking alcohol, if we are out partying or just engaging in a stress-inducing state working out at night, even our cortisol stays high longer and our melatonin doesn't kick in until later, and that will mess with your sleep schedule. You want to really tune into your circadian rhythms here, because that's going to help your hormones regulate. ⁣ ⁣ 38:35 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, I love that you're bringing that up. ⁣ ⁣ 38:36 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Yeah, everything is related. So, to increase your melatonin production at night, dim all the lights in your house. If you're going to watch TV or look at social media, try not to do it at least an hour before bed. If you do, use blue light blockers and try to regulate the type of content that you're consuming right before you go to sleep and then try to wake up at the same time every day so that your body gets into this rhythm where cortisol is happening. And, if you can, try to delay drinking coffee for an hour after you wake up so that your natural cortisol kicks in before you stimulate with caffeine. ⁣ ⁣ 39:17 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That is so important, everything you just said, and it's going above and beyond. And look, I'm a coffee drinker. I try to get away from it, but the caffeine will kick in. I have to know when to stop it, because I feel the change in my body when I have the caffeine and you know also, I'm going to throw this in there While you're listening to this episode. Afterwards, after you have this amazing conversation that you're tuning into with myself and Erika, check out episode 140, because I did an entire episode on sleep within the sleep expert, Mollie Eastman, on episode 140. ⁣ ⁣ 39:52⁣ So tune into this. That's what I'm talking about. We're all in this collective together and it's giving you really valuable information that you can share. Because what made me think about that, Erika, is that you touched on the lights in the home. Yeah, Because we, naturally we have all these bright lights in our home and it doesn't allow us to come down Put a dimmer everywhere. Yeah or the red lights or the blue lights, something that looks like sundown, is so important. I'm telling you it makes a difference with sleep. ⁣ ⁣ 40:17 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ It really does, because your body recognizes it as it's time to get ready to go to sleep now, that's correct. ⁣ ⁣ 40:23 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ So anyway, sarah, great question. Sarah's from Washington State. I love when we have people all over the country and the world Appreciate that question. All right, we're going back home here. We're coming back to Joycey. This is from Jenny. Okay, hi. Jenny Jenny puts a little humor in her stuff. I know Jenny very well. Is it true that even after you go through menopause for 12 months or you go through 12 months with no period, rather you can still experience menopause symptoms like hot flashes? ⁣ ⁣ 40:53 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Absolutely. You can have symptoms of menopause for up to 10 years before and 10 years after. 10 years before and 10 years after. Menopause is defined as one day, yeah, so menopause is marked when you go 365 days without a period. Once that day passes, you are post-menopause and your symptoms can last well into your 60s. ⁣ ⁣ 41:18 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ She's going to love the answer to that question. I'm very sorry to let you know, because she followed up. ⁣ ⁣ 41:24 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Perimenopause can last 10 years. Yeah yeah, I still cycle regularly, but my perimenopause symptoms are real life honey. And my estrogen levels are low. My testosterone levels are low. I have no progesterone, but yet somehow I'm still. My body temperature is going up and down, so I know I'm cycling. So, because I don't get a period anymore. Tmi I had an endometrial ablation in 2019. So it's glorious. I haven't had a period since then. ⁣ ⁣ 41:53 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Again, it goes back to the vehicle. Understanding your vehicle. Do I have oil and gas in this vehicle? What's going on? I have not had and TMI we can share here. That's what this is all about. ⁣ ⁣ 42:02⁣ Sure we can share. And, by the way, Jenny had a little humor to that, because there is humor in the healing, and she said I definitely want to sell my uterus ASAP because I'm done Girl, I get it. She's like I get it. But understanding your body and being able to befriend it and understand what you're going through and it's, you know, it's a process I have not had one in two years. So, like at that one year point, I'm like, oh, is this it? Like, are you there? God, it's me, Hillary, Full circle moment. I keep trying to find Margaret but she's been so busy. So you know, understanding yourself is really important. So, Jenny, listen, I hope that answers some of your questions. You know, you know understanding yourself is really important. So, Jenny, listen, I hope that answers some of your questions. You know you got me, you got the community and just keep listening to your body, you know please don't sell your uterus on eBay. ⁣ ⁣ 42:51 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Yeah, I mean I could say something like quasi serious about the idea of like wanting to sell your uterus on eBay. Mine's for sale. No, I'm just kidding. Idea of like wanting to sell your uterus on eBay. Mine's for sale no, I'm just kidding. If I could say something serious. ⁣ ⁣ 43:10⁣ It reminded me that in this period of life, there is a lot of grief. Yeah, oh yeah. And because, yes, we do. We feel like our bodies have abandoned us. We feel like our bodies have turned against us. We are mourning that our bodies are not operating the way that they used to. We are mourning that we can't keep not operating the way that they used to. We are mourning that we can't keep weight off the way that we used to, or that our sex drive isn't what it used to be, or that our skin is dry, or that our eyesight is going, or that our hair is thinning. We are grieving that we are past our reproductive years. We are grieving a lot of things, and so it's really important to acknowledge that. Like yeah, we joke about. Like, yeah, I want to say I'm done, like somebody just come in and take it all, but careful, what you wish for, right? ⁣ ⁣ 43:52 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Because that's such a good point, Erika. And it is grief, it is loss, and when we really show up for ourselves and realize this is a process of what we're going through and you even mentioned it like really understanding this beautiful process of aging, there's going to be bumps and bruises, just like there are in every stage, every decade of our lives. But the grief of not being able to have children I hear that one a lot in session, a lot in session, you know, or just even if you didn't want children or have children, which I didn't it's the idea that biologically I can't, it's something being taken from us and so, yeah, looking at it as grief is something that allows us to show up for ourselves. ⁣ ⁣ 44:41 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ And for many women in this phase, in this age, we have kids that are leaving the nest, so that's another piece of grief, because then the child is gone, your main focus for the last 18 years is gone and all of a sudden you're like, well now I'm all washed up, like what am I gonna do now? And that's where we really have an opportunity to lean into the newness of this phase of our life and the possibility and really lean into that persona of being this wise, wonderful, full woman who, or person with ovaries. We don't want to discount our lovely and wonderful trans friends. We want to be really able to be grateful for this transition, and that is really hard sometimes. ⁣ ⁣ 45:37⁣ So that's another one of my really big goals is to help people embrace and love a post-menopausal life. ⁣ ⁣ 45:47 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, yeah, and you know you hit the nail on the head. It makes me think a little bit about my hug it out method, which is about, in the healing, you have to have the humor, you have to be able to understand what you're going through personally and have gratitude for self, the H-U-G and once you have that, you're able to better show up for yourself, better show up for others. So just hold space for yourself, my friends. You know this is a beautiful process that we're going through together or have been through or will go through. Or you know somebody. Like I said at the the beginning of this, this conversation, we'll know somebody who is going through it. So, even if it isn't your journey, somebody is going through it that you know. So show up for them. Trauma to triumph Trauma to triumph, girl. ⁣ ⁣ 46:35⁣ You know it All right, we have one more question. Thank you for that question too, jenny, and just for us going further into it. Yeah, lily in California. Oh girl, oh girl. You and I were just talking about this. Erika Brain fog, it's my battle. That's all she wrote. She wrote brain fog is my battle. What the heck can I do? ⁣ ⁣ 46:56 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Oh God, Brain fog is the worst. Brain fog is the worst. I'm experiencing a lot of brain fog today actually, and I told Hilary before we went live. I'm really afraid that I'm going to lose my train of thought and that my brain is going to like exit the building. ⁣ ⁣ 47:14 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ This is the conversation, because you think you're alone in it and I have conversations with my boyfriend all the time. I'm forgetting everything and you start thinking like, is this early onset Alzheimer's? What's wrong with me? And we start saying things like what's wrong with me? That's got the kibosh on that right. So share your thoughts on this question. ⁣ ⁣ 47:34 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Number one is sleep. I know personally I can talk about me because I am in my body right now and I am experiencing what you're talking about. So I know that this weekend I lost a lot of sleep. We had plans on Friday night where we were out late. Saturday night I went to a friend's house and came home later than I usually would. ⁣ ⁣ 47:52⁣ I've had a little bit of high-functioning anxiety the last few weeks because of some family stuff going on and I know it has deeply affected my sleep. And when I don't get good sleep and I don't get my regular exercise, my brain fog is much, much worse. And so I would say sleep and I would say stop multitasking. We as women think that we can and should be multitasking all of the time. Multitasking does us no favors. So if you combine like really regiment your sleep, try to get that quality sleep. ⁣ ⁣ 48:33⁣ I take magnesium glycinate before bed every night and I also take I drink tart cherry juice before I go to bed which has natural occurring melatonin from tryptophan in it and it helps me sleep. Um, I'm just sharing what I do. Obviously I'm not. I don't prescribe these things, but if it works for me, it might work for you. Um, but but the when I try to multitask, just turn off your phone, don't go on social media. Don't get that like monkey brain situation going on. It's not going to help you right now. Go get some fresh air, take a walk, get the blood flowing in your body and get some sleep. That's, for me, what helps me almost immediately. ⁣ ⁣ 49:15 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That's really good. So what is? You take magnesium, not just magnesium. You're taking magnesium, yeah, so we'll. We'll add that, just so people have that in the notes and they can do with what they want. But you know another way and I'll just share this too do a few moments of Havening, like sit there, lie in your bed, do a little Havening. I actually have a video on hormones and hot flashes for Havening, but I'm going to do one on sleep because this is this is a big topic and I'll I have a hard time sleeping. ⁣ ⁣ 49:45⁣ I have sleep apnea, so I have to settle my mind and stepping away, like you said, from technology even keeping it out of the room is a big thing but just sitting there and like giving yourself two minutes just to self-soothe could put your brain in that Delta wave state, which is sleep state so you know you want to get into that subconscious mind, but be in the subconscious in a positive, because then your brain starts racing right. ⁣ ⁣ 50:11 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Yeah, I actually took my digital clock out of my room smart a month ago because, I was having anxiety knowing how many minutes I was awake in the middle of the night. I was like counting minutes. I was like it's been 46 minutes, I am still awake. Why am I still awake? Why am I thinking? Nothing that you're thinking about in the middle of the night is productive. ⁣ ⁣ 50:32⁣ And it's not real. All the anxiety, it's not real. It's like there's nothing that's sensical about what you're thinking about, what you're spinning about in the middle of the night and you can't do anything about it anyway, right, and I tell myself this. So, tools that I use to get back to sleep, just while we're talking about it tapping I do a lot of tapping and if you don't know about tapping EFT tapping it's amazing and I think of it as like an outside in, just like havening. ⁣ ⁣ 51:03 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Tapping and havening are the same in that they're both psychosensory approaches. Right, you don't put your mind to it. ⁣ ⁣ 51:07 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ It's not like meditation, where you're like clear your mind. It's like I'm going to tap here, I'm going to tap here, I'm going to tap here and here, and here and here and here, and it's going to regulate your nervous system, just like havening. I'm going to touch my hands, I'm going to touch my face, I'm going to give myself a little something and it's going to soothe myself like self-soothing tactics. Yes, and I also listen to sleep hypnosis. ⁣ ⁣ 51:34 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yes, we talked about that when we were chit-chatting. Hypnosis is great. I'm a certified hypnotherapist and it's been helpful for me to learn from well again like the certification right. But going even deeper and listening to there's so much content out there. My friends on YouTube, find the ones that are legit and tap into it because it can actually really be helpful. ⁣ ⁣ 51:59 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ the sleep hypnosis yes, yes, just make sure you bookmark them so you don't have to go searching YouTube at 2 o'clock in the morning, because that's not going to help you, because then your brain is in a hole. ⁣ ⁣ 52:09 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, that's actually really good. I use the. ⁣ ⁣ 52:11 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Aura app A-U-R-A. They have great sleep hypnosis. ⁣ ⁣ 52:15 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Great Love that, all right. Well, those are our questions. Let me check to see if we got any others, because we got to play a little game real quick. I want to just. I like these last minute folks that send their questions. We'll check real quick. Doesn't look like we got any more, because you answered some of the questions, uh-oh. No, I take that back. ⁣ ⁣ 52:35 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ We have one more question and I'm going to get them in, if I can, let's see. ⁣ ⁣ 52:39 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ This is from Wendy. And okay, good question, wendy. Wendy said is it possible to lose weight when you're in perimenopause? Haven't changed my diet and workouts, but managed to pack on some weight and I cannot lose it now. Wendy, my dear, let's see what Erika has to say. ⁣ ⁣ 52:57 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ I have a lot to say about this. First of all, I would want to know, as your coach, what did you do to change your diet? Restrictive eating is not your friend in perimenopause, because you need more than you think you do and you need to really up your protein and your fiber. Protein and fiber. For women. We're going 25 grams of fiber per day at least and protein you want to get 20 to 30 grams of protein per meal. ⁣ ⁣ 53:27⁣ You want to eat. You want to eat, eat, eat, eat, eat all the good things. Stop counting calories. Stop counting calories. You just want to eat more protein and fiber. Um, what? ⁣ ⁣ 53:40 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ was the other part At least a hundred, a hundred grams of protein a day. Again, just had this conversation too. And what did you say? 25 grams of fiber, right? ⁣ ⁣ 53:49 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ For women? Yeah, at least 25. That's a really good question. ⁣ ⁣ 53:52 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Wendy, thank you for asking that. That just popped in. ⁣ ⁣ 53:56 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ So I'm glad we were able to-. ⁣ ⁣ 53:57 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ There was another part of that question. Oh, let me go back and check real quick. So Wendy said that she hasn't been able. She's been packing on the weight how I can't lose it now? ⁣ ⁣ 54:07 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ yeah, it's just a statement she hasn't changed her diet or workouts so the loss of estrogen causes a redistribution of weight in the body and the accumulation of visceral fat which is around the abdominal area. So the belly fat situation, definitely without changing anything, can can come upon you in menopause or perimenopause, very suddenly actually, and so that's why, with the visceral fat, we have to incorporate the nutrition piece, because visceral fat does not perform the way that subcutaneous fat performs, so subcutaneous fat is easier to gain and lose. Visceral fat is really persnickety and it really depends on what you eat, what you eat and what you do not eat. So you want to avoid inflammatory foods. You want to avoid sugar and alcohol, if you can, added sugars. You want to just pack your day with whole foods and good quality food not processed, and you want to exercise in that zone too. That is going to help you lose weight. ⁣ ⁣ 55:29⁣ But all of the high intensity HIIT workouts, all the crazy indoor cycling, all the anaerobic workouts that we used to do in our 20s and 30s, it's not going to serve you now because that just makes your cortisol high and it's not going to give you the recovery that you need. So it all feeds into the same. But diet and exercise are huge. Stop dieting, stop counting calories. And we grew up I mean, I'm Gen X we grew up with this restrictive diet mentality of you have to count calories, you can only have 2,000 calories a day and then we overexercise to compensate. None of that is going to work for you now. We have to completely reprogram our minds to live differently in these bodies, because these are different bodies than they were in our 20s and 30s. ⁣ ⁣ 56:21 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, wendy, I get you. I was a kid that went to well, we called it fat camp, which is just putting shame on us right there. But I went to a camp that was counting calories and making sure it's calories in, calories out. Get this amount. You can't work out like you did when you were 13 or 14 or 15 or even 20. Just the movement, like Erika said, the 150 minutes a week, that's 30 minutes a day, five days a week. Right, doing the weight bearing, exercise and really be mindful of the amount of protein. Actually just have as much protein as possible. ⁣ ⁣ 56:58 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ You know I mean really, there's really no limit. As much protein as you possibly can. ⁣ ⁣ 57:02 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ There's just so much that your body will absorb and process. But if you go over, you're fine with that. And then getting that good source of fiber because, again, taking care of our heart, heart health, is really important as well. So these little tips will be helpful for you. Wendy, you are supported, know that you can. Uh, you can find support. You got it, girl. So those are some great questions, and thank you to everybody that submitted. Now let's play a little game with Erika. ⁣ ⁣ 57:28 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Oh dear. ⁣ ⁣ 57:28 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ All right, as we close things out, Hilary loves to do a game called Rapid Fire, where, I ask you, I actually mention a word that you brought up during this conversation and you come back with the first word that comes to mind. Oh shit Okay Love it there's so many times. I think it would be better to do this at the beginning. ⁣ ⁣ 57:45⁣ but no, no, let's close it on a high note here Just the first word that comes to mind, first word that comes to mind. I will throw out some words that you have said. Just come back with the first word, like boom, boom, boom. Let's do it. And I know this is going to be really great, because you have brain fog. You have brain fog, all right, here we go. Hormones Complicated Sleep. ⁣ ⁣ 58:09 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Essential. ⁣ ⁣ 58:09 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Period Sucks, menopause, long haul, self-care, self-care, you said Necessary, it's one word, it's hyphenated. ⁣ ⁣ 58:25 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Sugar Inlimited qualities. That's more than one word. ⁣ ⁣ 58:30 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That's okay, that's okay. No judgment Sorry, inlimited quantities Fine. We'll put hyphens in between. It yeah, midlife. ⁣ ⁣ 58:40 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Privilege Fitness. Cornerstone Brain fog Sucks. ⁣ ⁣ 58:51 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Scary. Brain fog is scary. It is a little scary, but again, understanding where you're coming from helps right and woman Powerful. Yeah, I had to end it on a high note. Look, we're going through stuff ladies and those who identify as tuning in we're going through stuff, guys. And those who identify as and are tuning in we're going through stuff, so we are going to support each other. ⁣ ⁣ 59:17⁣ Yeah, we're not alone in the battle, you know, and this is a part of life and change, and it's not always pretty, but understanding yourself is what empowers you right and finding the glimmers in it, finding the humor, finding the community and the camaraderie. Yeah, and attending a menoparty and coming to a menoparty. Again we're going to put everything in the link of the podcast notes, but I want to give you a moment, Erika, to share a final note. What are your final thoughts with those tuning into HIListically Speaking? ⁣ ⁣ 59:52 - Erika Shannon-Hathaway (Guest)⁣ Well, first of all, thank you, Hilary, for having me. It is just so great to see you and I love what you're doing with your podcast. I think it's so important. Thank you with your podcast. I think it's so important and it's such great. Quality, quality content, quality, everything. So thank you for letting me be a part of it. I think, as a closing, I would just say hang in there. You are not alone. There are resources out there for you. All of your feelings are real and valid and all of your symptoms are real, and while we might not be able to fully alleviate them all, and while we will never be able to go back to what we were, we are all able to become something so much wiser and live a full and gratifying and beautiful life in menopause. ⁣ ⁣ 01:00:46 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Beautiful Love that. What a beautiful share. Thanks, Erika, this has been great. ⁣ ⁣ 01:00:51⁣ Love you dearly, I'm so glad that you're on this journey, and I don't just mean the menopause journey, I mean the journey of supporting yourself and others. So it's great having you. Thanks for being here. Thank you, okay, sunshines, your questions have been answered. And listen if you want to take it a step further. ⁣ ⁣ 01:01:09⁣ There is no time like the present to check out one of Erika's mental parties. They are free. They happen every other week. It's a chance to come together as a community and talk about some of these topics. So I would say, check the links in the podcast notes of this episode to find out more about the mental parties, how to work with Erika one-on-one or even just connect with her on social media or her website and listen. ⁣ ⁣ 01:01:31⁣ We also talked about the importance of self-care, did we not? And one of the things that I have actually created was how to do self-havening for hot flashes and those hormones. I did this a while back, but I'm going to put a link to that in the podcast notes of this episode as well, so that you can follow along on a guided havening experience with yours truly and give it a try and listen. If you found this episode helpful, do me a solid, leave a rating, a review, wherever you do your listening, whether it's on Apple Podcasts, spotify Podcasts or even on YouTube or any of the other platforms that we are on, which we are on all of them and leave a message because make sure you're also downloading and subscribing, because then that allows others to find this episode or this podcast in general, and it's paying it forward. So do yourself a favor, do others favor and do me a favor. ⁣ ⁣ 01:02:22⁣ HIListically Speaking is edited by 2Market Media with music by Lipbone Redding and listened to by you. So thank you for joining me for this party every week and finding more ways to turn your traumas into triumphs and be kind to your mind. It doesn't go unnoticed. On that note, remember that you are never alone in this battle or whatever you are facing. You are supported, you are loved and I am always here to continue pressing record. I'll see you next week. Be well. ⁣

Embark on a profound journey with Dr. Kate Truitt, the voice of lived experience and scientific wisdom, as she unveils the raw intricacies of her latest work, "Keep Breathing.”  Dr Truitt is an award-winning clinical psychologist and applied neuroscientist. She's internationally recognized for her expertise in trauma, stress, and resilience. She calls “Keep Breathing” part autobiography and part scientific exploration. Together, we unwrap the layers of life's adversities, from the anguish of loss to the resilience required to face another day. As Dr. Kate shares her personal journey into the darkness, we intertwine the stronghold of community with the advancing tides of therapy, emphasizing the paramount importance of human connection and trust in the odyssey of healing and light.⁣ ⁣⁣ FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTS AVAILABLE ⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣⁣ CHAPTERS⁣ 00:00  Dr. Kate Truitt Opening Soundbite⁣ 00:36  Hilary Russo Episode Intro Keep Breathing⁣ 7:49   Navigating Mental Health and Wellness⁣ 12:25 Chronic Illness and the Opioid Epidemic⁣ 14:57  Changing the Narrative on Loss to Resilience⁣ 19:19 Flash Bulb Memories and Vulnerability  ⁣ 32:24 Navigating Grief and New Love⁣ 47:09  Rapid Fire Interview With Dr Kate⁣ 51:00 Dr. Kate’s Final thoughts⁣ 52:30 Hilary’s Close and Information⁣ 53:25 Havening for Healing Journey Support⁣ ⁣ Dr. Kate's Books: Keep Breathing: A Psychologist’s Intimate Journey Through Loss, Trauma, and Rediscovering Life https://amzn.to/3wuKSnN (Amazon) Healing in Your Hands: Self-Havening Practices to Harness Neuroplasticity, Heal Traumatic Stress, and Build Resilience https://amzn.to/3WOvYDp (Amazon)   ⁣Connect with Dr. Kate on all social media platforms at @DrKateTruitt Get her free Keep Breathing Healing Companion Toolkit:  https://www.drkatetruitt.com/freeresources ⁣ Tune in to Dr. Kate's other conversation on the HIListically Speaking Podcast  (Ep 109) and learn about Healing in Your Hands https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast/episode/20c0e132/ep109-dr-kate-truitt-the-healing-power-of-touch⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Interested in giving Havening a try? Schedule your session and mention you heard about it on the podcast.⁣ https://hilaryrusso.as.me/hugitout⁣ ⁣ Join the next Free Havening Happy Hour. March 27th at 7pm ET. Registration is required https://www.hilaryrusso.com/events⁣   CONNECT WITH HILARY⁣ https://www.instagram.com/hilaryrusso⁣ ⁣https://www.youtube.com/hilaryrusso⁣ https://www.facebook.com/hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://twitter.com/HilaryRusso⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣ ⁣Music by Lipbone Redding https://lipbone.com/⁣ ⁣ ⁣ EPISODE TRANSCRIPT ⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣⁣ 00:00 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Those behavioral responses, those flash-bowl memories. They're there through an evolutionary construct and that's, I think, such useful information when our brain is grappling with depression and anxiety or suicidal considerations, or just trying to find a way to keep breathing. Fundamentally, Because our brain's good at keeping us alive. It's its number one job. It's not so good at reading the instruction manuals that the 21st century has handed to us for a thriving life. ⁣ ⁣ 00:36 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ There are people in your life that you will meet that will either be there for a moment, a season or a lifetime You've heard this before and somehow someway no matter how much time they are in your life, because it's just a measurement of time you need to decide the role that they're going to play, especially as life is going forward, and I'm not only talking about those positive moments either, because life is truly about contrast. ⁣ ⁣ 01:04⁣ It's about growth, it's about finding balance, personal development right, and Dr Kate Truitt knows that all too well. If the name sounds familiar, it's because she has been here on the HIListically  Speaking podcast before, and she was here talking about her first book, healing in your Hands, which was the story of really how we can put self-healing and self-havening into our lives. But now she's back with something much more personal, and I am so elated to have you Kate. Kate the Great, as I call you, someone I consider a friend, a mentor, especially in the world of havening, and you're an award-winning clinical psychologist, neuroscientist, internationally recognized for your work in trauma and stress and resiliency. But more so, you are just a human being going through this life like anybody else, with your own story, and that is really what your newest book is about Keep Breathing and I'm just so glad I get time to share space with you again. It's always a gift. ⁣ ⁣ 02:07 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, well, right back at you, Hilary. Thank you so much for inviting me on and I just. You are a friend and a dear colleague and I admire you so much, and so I'm really excited to share about Keep Breathing and to dig in? Yeah, because at the end of the day, we are all just humans doing our best. ⁣ ⁣ 02:27 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, Like there's one quote that I love, Kate, and it's we're all just walking each other home right, and that's kind of something that you and I have talked about before, especially with this journey that you're sharing in Keep Breathing. That we're going to get into. But the whole idea that the old school, the old way of therapy and psychology, and sitting across the from your therapist, feeling like you're being judged in a way like tell me all your feelings. It has really changed, because now it's we're seeing more of the traditional therapy, including parts of ourselves, so that you can share with your clients and your patients to let them know I'm human too, and that's. That's so much about what we're we're reading in this newest book, isn't it? ⁣ ⁣ 03:17 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, and it well, it's about connection fundamentally. And the purpose of this book in so many respects was to highlight what you just said. When we're a psychotherapist, when we're trained and we've we've got the license, we've got the things, we're put into this expert role and sure there's a lot of information that we have. And, on the other hand, the number one thing that supports the healing journey is connection and report. And when we're invited to divorce our humanity from the healing process, sure there are some reasons for that, clinically, why we do that. And, on the other hand, in a world where disconnection is the rule of thumb, as our job now as empaths, as healers, is to be a connecting space, it really is about that. ⁣ ⁣ 04:12 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ So the hope for the book was. ⁣ ⁣ 04:13 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ yeah is to highlight hey, you can know a lot of things and, at the end of the day, just a human brain doing human things. ⁣ ⁣ 04:21 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I think it also goes back to not just connection but a trust in knowing that as we're walking through this life, we're going to be impacted, we are going to be touch, moved and inspired by different things that come into our lives. And how do we process, how do we go through these things? And I think that's what makes your book a little different than just a traditional memoir. You're sharing this really deep part of yourself through years and this book just isn't about grief. This is so much further. You actually said this is part autobiography and part scientific exploration. Can you elaborate on that? ⁣ ⁣ 05:04 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, it's raw. ⁣ ⁣ 05:07⁣ I think the tagline that keeps coming back and being reflected to me is it took me five years to write this book and, for context, my first book I wrote in eight months and I love my first book, but this book took five years and it took 10 years to be able to write it, because it does dig into not only the sudden traumatic loss of my fiancee a week before our wedding and that's actually the opening chapter, is me going to give the eulogy and then it uses my story as the case study. ⁣ ⁣ 05:43⁣ The Case Study, told in real, deep, first-person, intimate terms, of understanding the impacts of childhood trauma, of chronic illness and pain, of suicidal considerations, and grappling with that very real human darkness that can seep into our souls and hold us captive for so long. And fundamentally also, it's a love story about coming home to self and learning how to partner with our mind and our body and our soul so that we can show up in the world around us no matter what's happening. And then, of course, because I'm a science geek and this is why it took five years really gently integrating the nuances of science into all of that, why is the brain doing these things? Why are our behaviors showing up in these ways that are deeply painful and negatively impactful on our lives, and I talk a lot about that Because really my goal for both of my books was to turn around to my young 16-17 year old self, if I could, and say, if only you'd had this data, dear one. And perhaps somebody else now will have the data and it will help them. ⁣ ⁣ 07:00 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, what would you say to your 16 year old self now? ⁣ ⁣ 07:05 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ It's okay, hang in there, baby girl. ⁣ ⁣ 07:07 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, hang in there. Isn't that something we constantly need to say to ourselves? We're not separate from the parts of ourselves that are younger. I mean, all parts matter, as we've heard. That's big in the community, but being able to hold space for that younger part of yourself that's feeling scared or insecure or undecided, showing up for that part of ourselves, is really important. ⁣ ⁣ 07:40 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Extremely important and even the parts of ourselves that are looking at exiting stage, left out of life. One of the final stories I added into the book was and this was a big leap that my editor supported me in making and Chelsea Thompson, thank you. You're amazing, I love. You was really looking at my young, 10 year old self who was struggling with suicidal ideation, and using that as another story to highlight the pain of childhood, the lack of awareness that our young selves can struggle with. And one thing Chelsea said to me as I wrote the story was I'm a mom. I don't really think about the fact that my little kiddo could be going to that level of deep despair. I think about anxiety and stress and depression, but I don't think about that for them. And when I told her how young it started for me, that's her brain. She's like you. Please, if you feel like you can safely tell the story, please do. ⁣ ⁣ 08:51 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ What's even scarier about that is that you and I grew up in an age where there was no social media, and you know my work as a health journalist. I've covered a lot of stories that tap into that area of how social media can have a real negative impact on your emotional well-being. ⁣ ⁣ 09:12⁣ In fact, there have been some statistics and I've shared them before on the age group that it's really impacting. You know that younger age group, the teens, into the early 20s even, and you know, with us not having that and how heavy it was for us then not having this global village to be able to tap into at the touch of a fingertip. How much more is it now and how much more important is this type of book to have so that kids know that they are supported, or the adult in us that's looking back at the child knows they're supported. ⁣ ⁣ 09:51 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Right. ⁣ ⁣ 09:51 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ You know. ⁣ ⁣ 09:53 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Well, yeah, and looking at the idea of the village and how fundamental that is to our deep, deep, beautiful, dear friend. ⁣ ⁣ 10:03 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Amy, make it work. We love Amy. ⁣ ⁣ 10:05 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, and those core values of safety and belonging and loveability and success, being able to get those core needs met, which is something that I've been developing as part of my model for 25 years. ⁣ ⁣ 10:20⁣ But I came up with the idea of Amy when I was a young 20 something working in a rat lab, because I couldn't figure out where. My brain just wanted me dead. And you know, and I had an amazing human who shown so much healing and care on me, which was John, and then 10 years later he died. And that grappling with myself within all of that and really knowing that, as you're sharing, there's our village, and then when we put it into that social media sphere, it escalates exponentially the pressure and the expectation of these fundamental values that our brains are evolutionarily hardwired to lean into. And so if we feel like what rejection feels like in a home environment and then we take that to a global populace, is what and that's what it can feel like in social media, especially for adolescents and teens, and that's why suicide is the number one killer of our young humans these days. It's devastating. ⁣ ⁣ 11:20 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ It's beyond devastating. Having to dig into those, those statistics, is both a doctor, a neuroscientist and also a journalist. The other side of things, to sit and to come from a compassionate place, because you and I are both empaths, as many people who are of service in this work are it. It's devastating to sit there and think how can I help? And in your writing of Keep Breathing, was that something you thought about? Because it is your own healing journey, that writing this. I'm sure it's cathartic, therapeutic, but were you thinking? In writing this, I really want to share some kind of in a way it's guidance, a guide that lets people know they're okay just how they are and they're supported. ⁣ ⁣ 12:13 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, I never would have done it otherwise. It's one thing to pen a story. It's another thing to go through the journey of publishing a book. As I know you're working on your own books and I know you know so well. The vision for this was so much bigger than me. ⁣ ⁣ 12:35⁣ Yeah, yeah, my story and it's interesting, Hilary, because my story used to be a unicorn story of being widowed so young, of grappling with chronic illness and layering through that the difficulties of a complicated childhood and a complicated mind, body system, with health and pain and everything. And then, when the pandemic hit, my unicorn story became a normal, devastating story of millions of humans facing unexpected loss and death, of chronic illness seeping into the very fibers of our society. And that was a huge part of what kept me moving forward when many times I wanted to set the book aside. And then the other piece is my fiance, john, who's a victim of the opioid epidemic and looking at chronic illness and pain and so much that has happened in terms of opioid use at a national level. And now you know Netflix has done a great job putting out a lot of really important stories around it and there's a lot of conversation now, more so than ever and at the same time. I was a psychologist, I was trained, I was working with individuals who are navigating addiction. ⁣ ⁣ 13:58 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And here my own partner died of an accidental overdose from opioids and I remember what hit me with your book was very early on and I don't want to give this away, but we know that this story is so impactful. But when you went to the blame game and I saw in the quotes I should have been there, I was like ugh, and I think that is one of those things that we go through with. Grief is how the anger, the avoidance and then the blame of what could I have done differently? But you were actually in that space and to be also working in the space, it's kind of there's a level up there. ⁣ ⁣ 14:43 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ You know I felt like I, leveled up on the guilt and the shame and the judgment and just how I flogged myself emotionally for it and carried that. ⁣ ⁣ 14:56 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I felt like I failed. What do you feel was the shift? And I feel like it's more than just a shift. But where did you really start seeing a change in how you wanted to change the narrative on this story of losing the love of your life a week before your wedding, really coming to terms with what you've been through in your own life as a child, with your own illness and your own suicidal ideations? Where was it where Kate said I got to do something with this? ⁣ ⁣ 15:33 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ There was an incident at my offices where a past patient of mine came to the offices with the intention of harming me and it was a very scary event and luckily everybody was fine and the situation was contained and the person who needed support got support. And that was one of those moments for me of reconciliation and recognizing that there's so much pain in the world and the slight sidestep here. But this really deep connection to mental health and wellness or human rights and therapy is a privilege. And saying that as somebody who runs a group clinic and also has a training institute and a nonprofit like how do we do everything we can? And then being a part of the havening community, of course, is one of the co-developers to create the butterfly effect of larger change. And in the havening world it's been really powerful and beautiful to witness how those tools and that's where I'm the creator of the Healing in your Hands programs can be disseminated into the communities and, on the other hand, the education around what's happening in our brains isn't readily available and one of the things after that incident in my office is that my team continually reflected and the patients who were in the offices when the event happened and we had full swat on site to helicopters Like this was no joke. ⁣ ⁣ 17:12⁣ One of the things that everybody kept continually reflecting back to me was thank God I understood my brain and what happened next in terms of their own journey. And I told everybody go get therapy, go get whatever support you need, go do acupuncture, go get whatever you need. Build me, including all the patients who were there. So my entire team and all the patients like, just know, we've got this, you just send us the invoices, no questions asked, whatever you need. Nobody took me up on it, and for two critical reasons. One, everybody went to the offices and applied havening with their clinicians and literally one of my clinicians was on the roof with her patient of a three-story building. ⁣ ⁣ 17:57 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Hey, there's no area that's off limits with this work. ⁣ ⁣ 18:00 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ He's there, no limits, just megawork. And that they understood their brain. And that was where the request really for me started to bubble up and say I've been a specialist in neuroscience and trauma and resilience for going on 20 years now because I needed to make sense of my brain and I've got a pretty wackadoodle story. ⁣ ⁣ 18:25 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ You're using that word. We love that word. Yeah, I do. ⁣ ⁣ 18:31 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ And to the point of the expert being Because people as experts were like, oh, they don't really experience this. And then we're on the pedestal and it's like no, no, no, no, no. I've had panic attacks in shows. I've done the continual freak out texting with people and just next thing I know it's pages after pages of text messages and nobody's responding. And there's a narrative why our brain engages in those behaviors and they can be so pathologized rather, and instead it's like no, you're just human. ⁣ ⁣ 19:04 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That. I'm so glad you say that, because I've been there too and the first thing we want to do is shame ourselves for being human and think I should have known better. Much like I should have been there. ⁣ ⁣ 19:19⁣ We think, because we have this higher level of education LNOPs after our name we're on the top of what we do in the world, that we don't feel, and what makes us so beautiful is being vulnerable and courageous to say, oh no, I go through it too. And I'm glad you said that, because I think hearing it from somebody who isn't a place in a platform multiple and I'm not just talking social media, I mean in general where people look up to you we're not untouchable, or you're not untouchable, we're just human beings first right. So you go back to mentioning something you mentioned, something early in the book too, about flash bulb memories and to those who might not understand what that is in the scientific community, can you talk about that a little bit? ⁣ ⁣ 20:26 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ It's a reliving of an experience that has already happened and it's different from deja vu. Sometimes we have those experiences of deja vu of oh, I've been here before, this has happened before In a flash bulb memory. The experience is literally taking over our brain and we're reliving it in the moment, from everything we're hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting, touching, all the way down to our somatosensory or body response, the body memories of the encoding and the thoughts, the feelings of all of it. And when it happens, it's extremely disorienting because our brain has lost sight of the present moment or back in the past, and it's really, really painful and for so many people who don't know what they are but experience them, because that happens in trauma it's extremely crazy. ⁣ ⁣ 21:19 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Making yeah, and really that's when we have to show up for Amy and say all is well, this is not happening, it happened right. And really having the tools, of which there are many out there, it doesn't have to just be havening. Obviously, it's what you want to put in your little brain candy jar, as I call it. Pull out what you need in that moment. And just a side note that those listening, there is a wonderful toolkit that Dr Kate is offering. It's Keep Breathing Healing Companion Toolkit. That is a free resource. It's a wonderful download. ⁣ ⁣ 21:58⁣ I highly recommend you grab this in addition to Keep Breathing the Book which is coming out in April, and it's a Keep Breathing, a psychologist's intimate journey through lost trauma and rediscovering life, and I'll have that book, as well as Healing, in your Hands available. These are both two wonderful books to put in your library when you need them. Read them more than once. I know this book just from starting to read it. It'll be one of those books I want to read again because it's such an intimate journey and I think this is the kind of book that every time you read it you find something new right. ⁣ ⁣ 22:36 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, well, the hope in integrating the science is really helping people partner with their brains and have a theoretical construct for all of those wackadoodle things that happen, and being able to say, oh OK, amy, the Amy, della, amy's having a really hard day, this is happening, that is happening. And being able to reconstruct not just the past but also find through lines on how to create the present. And that's where the Healing in your Hands book is a lovely companion as well. ⁣ ⁣ 23:13 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, we will share both those, definitely, yeah, yeah, what is it that you're hoping to see happen with Keep Breathing? That might be different from Healing in your Hands, with us being authors and sharing our journeys and sharing what we know and wanting to put it out there in the world. We just want to help people, right? What's the difference between your first book, healing in your Hands, and where you're hoping to keep breathing? ⁣ ⁣ 23:42 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, Healing in your Hands is a healing journey, and it utilizes the self-havening touch as a mechanism of action to empower an entire suite of neurobiological healing tools, and so that is really about partnering and guiding one's own healing journey. ⁣ ⁣ 24:06⁣ Through the lens of a lot of the client's case studies that I've worked with and it's so much fun writing it. ⁣ ⁣ 24:13⁣ Keep breathing, on the other hand, my vision really was to do a trauma-informed version of the Body Keeps the Score by Vistle VanderKohl, because that is a phenomenal book, but it was originally intended for clinicians and it's become the Bible of understanding trauma, for very good reason. ⁣ ⁣ 24:32⁣ It's beautifully written and extremely well-informed and yet it can be a really tough read for people who have trauma. And to take the Brené Brown framework and integrate it into the science, which then basically became kind of me belting out my own story every step of the way, which Brené does so beautifully, in order to reduce shame and enhance self-connection. So really the vision for Keep Breathing is to have a trauma-informed, safe way for people to learn about what's happening in their mind-body system and multiple different levels, not just traumatic loss and grief, because grief is weird. There's so many weird things about grief and loss that feel crazy-making and I use the word crazy with a deep love and care, because that's a term I've given to myself for going on 40 years now, and so I've partnered with that term because I can feel pretty chaotic, which is what crazy is Like ah, what's happening but to also help people see that they're not alone, yeah, and we need that more than ever. ⁣ ⁣ 25:43 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And there's humor in the healing anyway, right. So, whether it's crazy wackadoodle, what's the other term. You say, oh, crazy pants McGee. Crazy pants McGee. I think that's the title of another book. Yeah, that's exactly what I mean Crazy pants McGee. But when we find the humor in the healing, we're kind of taking ourselves out of it in the moment, right, almost like what you said about the flash bulb. The landscape of where our brain is taking us in that moment, making us think like the fender bender that we're going through, the intersection of where we had a fender bender once, is actually happening right now, right, and being able to see oh OK, I'm OK, I'm safe, I'm good. I might be crazy pants McGee at the moment, but just holding space for ourselves in that area I think is really important. ⁣ ⁣ 26:36 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, and beautifully stated. Because those behavioral responses, those flash bulb memories, they're there through an evolutionary construct. Yeah, and that's, I think, such useful information when our brain is grappling with depression and anxiety or suicidal considerations or just trying to find a way to keep breathing. Fundamentally Because our brain's good at keeping us alive. It's its number one job. It's not so good at reading the instruction manuals that the 21st century has handed to us for a thriving life. ⁣ ⁣ 27:20 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And making things more conversational. Like you said, the body keeps a score is a great book. It is a lot to read, right? And then you think about the books that Brene Brown has put out there which have a little bit more lightheartedness. It's like you're sitting down having a conversation with her, yeah, but you're blending the two in a way that makes this a much more conversational. Yet scientific exploration into a personal psychologist journey, you know, oh, that's pretty good. Actually, I like how I just said that. Oh yeah, that was beautiful. ⁣ ⁣ 27:53 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ But it's, I'm just going to pause on that. You can have it. ⁣ ⁣ 27:59 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ You have for the longest time, in every email, many times in some of your posts even have used the term phoenix rising. You know the phoenix rising. Where did you come up with that? And I know that's a real thing, but why is it so closely attached to Kate? ⁣ ⁣ 28:20 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Way back in my sweet young teenage years I adopted the spirit animal, the cockroach, and context of that is cockroaches can withstand anything. You cut their head off, they will live for two more weeks. I got to go in a deep dive researching cockroaches when I decided to put this in the book because otherwise, like you need to give context for that and of course it hit the cutting room floor. It's not the context of the human background. We'll keep it in here for you. ⁣ ⁣ 28:52⁣ It's here. Thank you, use the data. They're gritty, intense features and by the time I was 18, I think I'd almost died around nine times and I don't go into depth around all of it, but there's just been a lot. And when I met John, he kind of took a stand against me around the whole concept of the cockroach and said you know, that's not exactly the best framework because they're survivors and I'd always been a huge fan of Greek mythology and mythical creatures and leaning into narrative and story. ⁣ ⁣ 29:37⁣ And then one day, when I was in the throes of a really, really deep panic attack, I remember feeling that I felt like my body was on fire, which is how panic can often feel and I had severe, debilitating social anxiety. That's how I started in the rat labs, because rats are friendly and they're kind, they don't judge humans are terrifying. And it just started to shift for me the space of I keep going into the flames, I keep feeling like I'm burning up, but I keep coming out of the phoenix, and so that was a totem. I started to try on. And then when I met my now partner, nauz, who I know you've met and hung out with and Irish danced with, we did. ⁣ ⁣ 30:22 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Who are you kidding? You were the one that was killing it in the Irish dancing. ⁣ ⁣ 30:28 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ No, no, that was Kim, that was Kim. ⁣ ⁣ 30:30 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I don't know, no, anyway, yes, knowing Nauz he's great. ⁣ ⁣ 30:35 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, on our very first date we were chatting and he shared with me that he had a totem of the phoenix and he survived and been through a lot and growing up in India and religious wars and just being exposed to a lot of really painful, complex things. And it was this bonding moment that we had of you know what? There will be ashes, there will be fires and pain into power, wounds, into wisdom. And then, because I'm just going to keep talking, hilary, do you know what a group of phoenixes is called? I'm not even gonna guess. ⁣ ⁣ 31:15 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ An odyssey. ⁣ ⁣ 31:17 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Oh, oh, I like that you mentioned that in the book I do, I do, I do, and so, as I mean, this was something I'd known for a little while and then, when I met ran, it started doing, havening and moving into this new way of being in the world, and I had phoenixes along the way of my journey, I started noticing this collective community of an odyssey, and from there it's just expanded beyond the haven in community, which is phenomenal and amazing, and to this larger global collective that I walk alongside, and these are all humans who have been in the flames. ⁣ ⁣ 32:01⁣ I don't know a single human who has done their work that hasn't burned up, and the reason I call it done their work is being a phoenix means you are aware that you burned. Oh yes, and the scars are things you're proud of. ⁣ ⁣ 32:19 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, the first step to any change is the awareness right. ⁣ ⁣ 32:23 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah. ⁣ ⁣ 32:24 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, love that. ⁣ ⁣ 32:24 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ And rather than being, and the transition to the phoenixes. Wait, I'm not going to be ashamed, I'm not going to judge myself, I'm not going to be stuck in self-living, and if I do get stuck there because we do as humans, I'm also going to lean into my village, my odyssey, you. It's the story of the phoenix. ⁣ ⁣ 32:50 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Love that and you mentioned that in the beginning of the book when I was first reading your acknowledgements you had. It was somewhat of a dedication to your odyssey, right? Yeah, it is literally. ⁣ ⁣ 33:03 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ I think it's the actual dedication. It is a dedication. ⁣ ⁣ 33:06 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I just didn't want to leave anyone out, if but I remember reading that going oh. I love this. ⁣ ⁣ 33:11 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, to my village, my odyssey, and we continue to always phoenix up. ⁣ ⁣ 33:16 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I love that, kate. The other thing I love that you do mention Nas, because I was going to bring him into this anyway and in that way that you're writing this book. It's really while it's not just about the grief and loss of a partner that you had. There's so much more to the book. But how has it been to be in another relationship, referencing back to an older relationship, and feel vulnerable enough to share it without feeling that you're possibly impacting the relationship you're in now? ⁣ ⁣ 33:57 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, and it's interesting you highlight that because that's something my mom has consistently brought up ever since I met Nas, which is like don't talk about John, don't. And from the most loving Karen's face, and Nas is very specifically, uniquely him, human. I have no better way to say it. ⁣ ⁣ 34:18 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ He's pretty cool. ⁣ ⁣ 34:20 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ He's pretty cool. Yeah, he's pretty cool and from the very you know it's interesting. I told him on her second date that I knew I would never be able to biologically have children. I didn't tell him about John until our 10th date because that, on her second date, was information that he needed to have so he could make a specific choice about whether or not he wanted to continue the relationship. As my body had considerations With John, I was so mindful that I didn't want to be that person that, whatever my brain said that person was. ⁣ ⁣ 35:06⁣ And when I started telling him about what had happened, he consistently showed up in a space that was just it's a part of your story. I want to know as much as you feel comfortable sharing. And that's been his through line from day one and writing this book. I kept checking with him because he did. Let me write about him in the book and he's deeply, deeply, deeply private. He's one of the most private people I've ever met in my life, and so I kept reading him excerpts that he's in and, in his own cheeky way, sometimes now he'll quote them back to me and be like, don't forget. ⁣ ⁣ 35:50⁣ Page 300 or 200, you said Sometimes I see more than you think, because literally he said that to me last night. ⁣ ⁣ 36:03 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I love it. That's a good connection. It'll be fun this time Was that Write a book in what It'll be fun, right. ⁣ ⁣ 36:13 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ But I think the best way to describe it is he's seen all of these weird universal idiosyncrasies and just been there for all of them, and even this diamond that I wear. Nas gifted me last year, for he gave me two necklaces, one for anniversary, one for Valentine's Day, and this is the engagement ring that John gave me. This is the diamond. And then he gifted me another necklace that has the diamonds that were would have been on my wedding band with John and he was just saying John's always with you, he's your angel, he's always with you, and that's Nas. ⁣ ⁣ 36:57 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That's more than just a confident human being. That's someone that gets it. It's someone who realizes that that's part of your story and you're here and you two are together now because it's exactly where you're supposed to be now. Right, it's like that quote, that, what is it? I was just sharing this today with a client. Life will give you whatever experiences are most helpful for the evolution of your consciousness. ⁣ ⁣ 37:27 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ How do you know it's the right? ⁣ ⁣ 37:29 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ experience, because you're having it, that's. Eckhart right and that's a good one, because you sit there and you're like why is this happening? And then you think, oh, it's happening, because it's happening. Right, nas came into your life when he did, because he was meant to be there when he's there. So the reference back to something that was is still part of the is, but it's not the. ⁣ ⁣ 37:54 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Now you know what I'm saying, I do, I do. And John, the week before he died and this is a story that was one of the hardest stories to write in the book he had said I've always known I was going to die young and I was so mad and literally, driving on the freeway, pulled off onto the shoulder of the freeway, was so mad. He wasn't suicidal or anything, he just he's just this dead pan. And John had a certitude when he spoke about certain things. He was a joyful I mean, he's an April Fool's baby and he embodied everything you could imagine about an April Fool's baby, which is why the book coming out in April 2nd is so precious. And he said this and he looked at me and he said and you will find great love and I'll let you know you have to and my inner 13 year olds going, you're going to die alone and I'll die first. And he's just like you will know. ⁣ ⁣ 38:53 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ When you look back on that now, how does that impact you? Yeah, oh, he, let me know. Yeah, the greater awareness sometimes people have, we don't even realize it, you know. ⁣ ⁣ 39:04 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, it's a larger universal connection. And the chapter two opens up with a quote from John and do you mind if I read it? Oh please do, it's so poignant. ⁣ ⁣ 39:20 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And while Kate's finding that, just a reminder that keep breathing healing companion toolkit, she's giving that away. That's a free resource that is available to you. It will go beautifully with the book. What a beautiful companion to the book. So we'll have that in the podcast notes as well as links to the book, which this book keep breathing, drops on the 2nd of April. And then there's also the other book, healing in your Hands, that we'll share as well, because it's why not have both right Right, kate the great in your pocket whenever you need her. But that's the goal. ⁣ ⁣ 39:52 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ That is the goal. If only we could have Kate the great all the time, and on the Dr Ketra dot com, we're cultivating a library of free resources. ⁣ ⁣ 40:01 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Love that. We'll share all of that the tool quotes there. ⁣ ⁣ 40:04 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, we have a bunch of neuroplasticity exercises because, you know, healing and the life journey is not just about healing the past Beautiful we also have the opportunity to build the future. So John yes, so the chapter called Tomorrow Begins, and this is starting the morning after I found him and I couldn't save his life. And the quote is and the transformation from flesh to earth. We see this symbolic form of transcendence, suggesting its inevitability, whether we see it as fit. ⁣ ⁣ 40:41 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ He said that and you remember that he said this when he was like 23. ⁣ ⁣ 40:47 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ And you, remember that I have a trunk. He and I were. He was also a prolific writer and so we would, he said. For context, I was in the hospital when I was in my early twenties and he sent me a three-ring binder. That was this thick of our remember AOL and Stitmus. Oh yes, of our aim conversations, because texting didn't exist yet. ⁣ ⁣ 41:12 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ You're dating us and yeah and it was all of our conversations. ⁣ ⁣ 41:17 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ I still have that, and so when I started writing the book, I went back through, which was a real journey into just my soul, and that was one of the quotes that I found from a poem that he'd written when he was in his early twenties. ⁣ ⁣ 41:32 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ It's quite extraordinary to think that the internet could be well contrasting, right, positive and negative, because it allows us to really go into the digital library and Rolodex of things that we might normally have to find in a huge library, and it could take hours and hours, in fact. Suddenly I just went back to. I had a flashball moment, but a good one. ⁣ ⁣ 42:05 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ And then it was a good one. ⁣ ⁣ 42:06 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, so when we were at the when we were at the library on the campus of Trinity University in Dublin and that library I remember looking around while we were there. ⁣ ⁣ 42:15⁣ We went on that tour and thinking how in the world do you find what you need in this place? Back in the day we're talking hundreds of years ago and you know we're of the dewey decibel system age, right, but now everything is just so at our fingertips with the digital age. It really makes us. It gives us, rather, the opportunity to transport ourselves to a place that maybe we have not been to in a very long time. ⁣ ⁣ 42:51 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah, you know, and reviewing the stories and conversations that we had and I brought a couple into the book Because they're just such in hindsight, going back to your question and how, when I think about what he said, now there's so many flickers to Eckhart Tolle's beautiful point of what was to come and the that quantum physics, human consciousness, integration. ⁣ ⁣ 43:33 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ With this book being so personal and understanding. Somewhat well, understanding authoring a book, was this one you did completely yourself, or did you find it helpful to have someone? Oh good, no. ⁣ ⁣ 43:50 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ No, no, no, I had. I was on the phone till 4am sometimes with friends as I was writing it. Rebecca who many people who've been to our trainings and knows Rebecca very well. She's on my lead trainers, also just a chosen sister and family member, a fellow Phoenix. She really incredibly helped me tune some of the harder parts of my family's narrative. I, every step of the way, was in conversation with my parents because we do unpack the family story and the narrative and it was critical to me that I be very respectful of every human's journey. Nobody has intended harm, despite the experiences that occurred. And how do we honor and hold space for that and the ancestral journey of all of that transgenerational trauma? So my parents were a huge voice within all of it. Rebecca really played a critical role in identifying some key ways to present some information that would sponsor the story and honor everybody's unique stories. I'm accusing the word story, but that's what it is. ⁣ ⁣ 45:04 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And also I've found that there are. Well, we all have a story right. Every single one of us Not everyone's going to pen a book. Not anyone, not everyone's going to talk about it, and part of the difficulty might be for fear of saying or hurting somebody, because you are sharing your truth, right. ⁣ ⁣ 45:29 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ And and with John's family. It was so important to me to be respectful Because I could I could tell the story that I lived with him and they were my family for 10 years and during many of those years they were more my family than my own family and to share the information I was sharing. How do I do that in a respectful, kind, loving manner and also not unpack any information that wasn't mine to share? I'm walking that very fine line and I was very grateful that when I was going through that huge binder, one of the things that John repeatedly circled back to was a permission that I didn't know would happen 10, 15 years later of you have to tell your story, and whatever version of my story is a part of that tell it. And that refrain shows up over and over and over again, going all the way back to when I was 20, 21 years old. ⁣ ⁣ 46:39 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Kate, this is such a gift. It's going to help many and I imagine it continues to help you. Yeah, you know it does. This helps me. Oh well it helps me too. I think we learn from each other. You know, and that's so much of what community connection the Odyssey is Right, so I'm so glad that you brought that brought that up, because that was that was definitely an important piece Before we go. ⁣ ⁣ 47:09⁣ You know I do this, you know it's coming. I hope you haven't been writing down words too, because I want to do our little rapid fire. As you know, for those who are new to the HIListically Speaking podcast, I do a game called rapid fire at the end, where I write down words that were said by our lovely guests and want to think about the first word that comes to their beautiful brains. So not always positive, not always negative, just is doesn't matter, it's just a word, right? ⁣ ⁣ 47:43⁣ So here we go. You ready, yes, okay, some of them might be two words, but right, because you've been on before, so I got to change it up for you, all, right? Well, why don't we start with Odyssey? ⁣ ⁣ 47:58 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Village. ⁣ ⁣ 48:00 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Breathing. ⁣ ⁣ 48:02 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Life. ⁣ ⁣ 48:03 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Whackadoodle Laugh, because that's our favorite word, amy Superhero. ⁣ ⁣ 48:13 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Belonging Hard one. ⁣ ⁣ 48:19 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Safety Hard one. ⁣ ⁣ 48:22 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Success Complicated. ⁣ ⁣ 48:27 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Oh, you didn't. Okay, you changed it up a little bit. All right, she's throwing me for a loop. Okay, community Odyssey Self love Hard one. Can I keep using the same one you? ⁣ ⁣ 48:42 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ can do whatever you want. There are no rules, all right, all right you make the rules, just play the game. ⁣ ⁣ 48:47 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That's the rule. Okay, okay, grief. ⁣ ⁣ 48:54 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Oh, that's a hard one, especially because I'm running this huge workshop and I've been knee deep in all of the science of grief. Grief, it's just, it's a part of life. It needs to be a part of the conversation. Yeah, two words. ⁣ ⁣ 49:11 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Childhood trauma, heartbreaking. ⁣ ⁣ 49:15 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Suicidal, the escape hatch. Phoenix Wounds into wisdom baby. ⁣ ⁣ 49:31 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, we're closing on that, yeah. ⁣ ⁣ 49:34 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ We're closing on that. Yeah, wounds into wisdom, baby. ⁣ ⁣ 49:40 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, we're closing on that Love, that Beautiful. I adore you. ⁣ ⁣ 49:45 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ I really do. ⁣ ⁣ 49:49 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I have not ever had a guest come on more than once, so congratulations, I did not know that. ⁣ ⁣ 49:54⁣ So thank you. Yes, I mean, I look, you know that this show is my baby. It is my heart's work and I do get a lot of people that want to be in this space and I'm so grateful for that. But to be able to have you back on and share this other part of Dr Kate Truitt to me felt just so natural. Thanks, Right. So I adore you, I admire you. You are such a mentor and such a spark of wisdom and just there's just so many ways I could describe you, Kate, Kate the Great. But thank you for being here, Thank you for everything you were putting out there in the world. ⁣ ⁣ 50:40⁣ And just a reminder we will share everything in the podcast notes, including Dr Kate Truitt's free resources, the book Keep Breathing, even Healing in your Hands, if you haven't heard about it. But go back and listen to that podcast episode, which was, I think, 101. But I can't be certain of that, but we'll put that in there. Good memory. I know it was in the hundreds, early hundreds. Now we're at 149. So look where we are. Of course you are, and I just want to give you a moment to share some final words with those tuning in. ⁣ ⁣ 51:17 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ It's not going to be too different from what I think I wrapped up our last conversation with, which is, Hilary, just be gentle. If we're all a little more gentle with ourselves, it's a skill. It's not frequently something we're taught and it's the game changer. Being human and living in a human world is complicated. When we're soft and we're gentle with ourselves, it opens up entirely new opportunities for connection, for growth and for inspiration. Life really. ⁣ ⁣ 51:55 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Gentle is such a beautiful word. As you were saying that and just speaking the word. It really. You know how words have feelings, like colors. Just hearing you say the word gentle, it just seemed nurturing and loving. ⁣ ⁣ 52:12 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Yeah. ⁣ ⁣ 52:13 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That's a really beautiful word and leaving with that, I like that. That's where we're going. Good deal, yeah, thank you, kate. ⁣ ⁣ 52:25 - Dr. Kate Truitt (Guest)⁣ Thank you, joy and an honor. ⁣ ⁣ 52:27 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Always All right, my sunshine. It's time to be a part of that odyssey that Dr Kate Truitt talks about. Grab a copy of her latest book Keep Breathing a Psychologist's Intimate Journey Through Loss, trauma and Rediscovering Life. This book actually releases on April 2, but there is a link in the podcast notes of this episode to pre-order the book now. You can also download a free companion toolkit, the Keep Breathing Healing Companion Toolkit. It's a free download that Dr Kate is offering a beautiful compliment to her book Keep Breathing. ⁣ ⁣ 53:02⁣ That is also in the podcast notes as well, in addition to Dr Kate's first book, which is Healing in your Hands a beautiful way to learn more about self-havening and how you can self-regulate to self-heal. We talked about that on episode 109 of the HIListically Speaking Podcast. So I'm not only going to add the book, I'm going to add the podcast episode so you can find that as well. And if you're curious about Havening, if you want to learn more about how Havening can support you on your healing journey, let's hug it out. All you have to do is set up a little time with me and we'll see if that modality aligns with you. ⁣ ⁣ 53:38⁣ HIListically Speaking is edited by Two Market Media with music by Lipbone Redding and supported by you. So thank you for trusting me with your time and with your mind and, as Dr Kate shared so beautifully, be gentle with yourself and when you need help, the odyssey, the community, they're awaiting you. So know that you are supported, that you are beautiful just the way you are and that I love you, I believe in you and I will see you next week. Be well.

It’s the crucial biological fabric that holds us all together. On this episode of the HIListically Speaking Podcast we pack the mysteries of fascia release by taking you on a transformative journey with the wisdom of Fascia Remedy founder Julia Blackwell. Tune in as Julia shares her story of profound emotional and physical relief. And what she did to turn her lifelong battle with nerve damage into a mission to help others heal from within. ⁣ From foam rolling and simple breathing techniques, It’s time to move past the common misconceptions and find solutions to pain management and mobility improvement.  We venture beyond the surface and explore the root causes of fascial tension and what you can do right now to “Unlock Your Hips” and unravel the unrest.⁣ ⁣ FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT AVAILABLE ⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast ⁣ ⁣CHAPTERS⁣ 00:00 Intro ⁣ 04:00 Deep Dive Into Fascia and Pain  ⁣ 13:54 The Power of Fascia in Healing  ⁣ 19:21 Fascia's Impact on Mental and Physical Health ⁣ 22:00 Fun with Fascia. How do you say the word?⁣ 25:20 The Importance of Proper Foam Rolling  ⁣ 32:58 Rapid Fire Game⁣ 34:40 Julia’s final share with you⁣ 35:16 Hip Unlocking Challenge With Julia ⁣ 35:40 HUG it Out Challenge with Hilary⁣ ⁣ Connect with Julia at www.movementbyjulia.com or on social at @movementbyjulia on Facebook and Instagram⁣ Get her free foam rolling series Unlock Your Hips:⁣ www.movementbyjulia.com/podcast⁣ ⁣ ⁣In honor of Women’s History Month, I’m giving one woman that chance to work with me for free. Just schedule your session and mention you heard about it on the podcast.⁣ https://hilaryrusso.as.me/hugitout⁣ ⁣ Download the free 5-Day HUG it Out Challenge and turn your chaos into calm with confidence. https://www.hilaryrusso.com/5daychallenge⁣ ⁣ CONNECT WITH HILARY⁣ https://www.instagram.com/hilaryrusso⁣ https://www.youtube.com/hilaryrusso⁣ https://www.facebook.com/hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://twitter.com/HilaryRusso⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣⁣Music by Lipbone Redding https://lipbone.com/⁣ TRANSCRIPT Full version https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast 00:00 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Within three months of doing this type of fascia release, I felt more freedom and emotional releases and just a change, such a big change in the feeling function of my arm than I had in 23 years of trying all the other types of modalities.  00:21 - Hilary Russo (Host) Okay, my sunshine, how many times do you have that feeling of pain or discomfort in your back, your neck, your shoulders, any part of your body, your knees and nothing seems to work. Nothing that you're doing to stretch it out, to make it feel better is working at all. It took me years to understand that you really have to get to the root of the issue of these kind of things. And then I tried fascia release therapy. Game changer how I found it was. I took a trip to Costa Rica and I was doing a retreat and I gave it a try. It was part of the retreat and let me tell you, it made a huge difference and I realized that there were parts of my body that I truly didn't understand and there were things that I was holding within that I didn't know how to release and I needed a little help, as we all do right.  01:16 So Julia Blackwell is a fascia release practitioner, she's an educator, she is the creator of the fascia remedy, and you may be wondering what the heck is fascia? Right? All good, all good, we're gonna cover that. That is why Julia is here on, HIListically Speaking, not only to share more about what fascia is, but what you can do to relieve that pain, to be more mobile, to increase your performance. And, julia, I know that you have your own story and I'm so grateful to have you here, because this is a topic I haven't  HIListically Speaking, and I think it is so important because it affects our entire body as a whole, doesn't it?  01:57 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Oh yeah, absolutely, and yes, thanks so much for having me on.  02:00 - Hilary Russo (Host) Of course. So let's talk about fascia Before we go any further. Let's define what fascia is, so there's a clear understanding of it.  02:10 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Oh, absolutely. Also, just from my Cincinnati roots, I'm gonna call it fascia because all of my hard A's, it's just hard to have it to think.  02:20 - Hilary Russo (Host) I love that. Yeah, I'm sure it's called something everywhere. There's different dialects all over the world who  tune into HIListically Speaking , so I love that you bring that up.  02:29 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Yeah, it's correct both ways. But yeah. So fascia is the biological fabric that organizes all of the water and material in your body. So you can think of it like plastic wrap that wraps around every single thing that you have. So every muscle fiber, every muscle, every bone, ligament, tendon, organ, blood vessel, nerve, it's all wrapped in this connective tissue. That's one uninterrupted, interconnected system that functions as a unit. So this little three-dimensional plastic wrap suit that we wear on the inside is so imperative for the shape and structure that you see in the mirror that is you. So if that were to magically disappear out of your body, you would go tumbling to the ground in a pile of bone fragments and goo. Or, as on the flip side, if everything else except your fascia were to magically disappear out of your body, you would largely still look like you. So it's this very covert but very important tissue. It's the most abundant tissue we have actually in our body.  03:38 - Hilary Russo (Host) So basically it's keeping us all together, right?  03:42 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Oh yes, it's imperative to attaching everything to what needs to be attached to, and then it's also separating things that need to be separated. That's why we don't just balloon water down in our legs, so it organizes all of that water and material.  04:00 - Hilary Russo (Host) Now I know people tend to just go right to the roller, the foam roller, as a way to alleviate the pain or discomfort. There's really more to this kind of release therapy than just the roller itself, right.  04:17 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Absolutely. There's a specific way to approach fascia. It plays many, many roles in our body besides just that structural and connective element, and one of those roles is to protect us. So it's what helps absorb shock, it's what subconsciously can brace for impact. So that's how we prevent more extreme injuries when we bang our elbow against the wall or maybe something more intense, like you crashed your mountain bike. But that protective element of it actually makes it a little bit difficult to change. Fascia does not change easily. So rolling around aimlessly on your roller or just really trying to beat your body into submission with this really intense trigger point isn't really the best way to approach fascia.  05:09 - Hilary Russo (Host) Okay. So I know you have your own story too. I mean, there's always something that brings us to the work we do right. And for you, you dealt with pain for a number of years and it sounds so similar to some of what I dealt with with my own story, as I mentioned when we were just chit chatting before. Like I had major TMJ surgery, temporal mandibular joint, but I also dealt with a lot of shoulder pain and when I was reading your notes before we had a chance to meet, I was like, oh man, I totally resonate with what she's saying, because we deal with this discomfort and this pain and our healthcare system has been failing us in this area. If they don't know the answer, they say well, it's in our head or you just have to deal with it and that's or here's a pill to make the pain go away. And you took a deeper dive, you really took control of your own health and I love that. So share a little bit about your story because I know it's going to resonate with people. Yeah, sure.  06:09 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) So I was almost a 10 pound baby Wow.  06:13 And I know my mom is this tiny five four lady. So I'm so sorry, mom, but in the in the process of being born I got stuck. So in the attempt to pull me out, the doctor ended up stretching and tearing most of the nerves in my right shoulder. So while I did have a nerve regraft surgery at about four months old, after that they really sent me home and wished me the best of luck and that was about it. So I was still left with a lot of limited mobility, a crazy amount of tension and just a lack of strength in that arm.  06:56 So growing up I went through what I now call the Western medicine system run around, which is going from doctor to doctor, practitioner to practitioner for all of these check-ins or, you know, treatments, if we want to call them that, without really any change. Or if I felt any change, it was very fleeting. I would feel better for about a day and then things would go right back to where they were before. And you know, most people told me there was nothing that was ever going to change about this problem. It was always going to be this way and if anything, it was only going to get worse, which is frankly crazy a crazy thing to tell anyone, especially kids, who have a much more suggestive mind, but we don't have 10 hours to talk about the things that doctors say to patients, right? Yeah, and you know largely I had accepted that and, really disconnected from my body, I rarely used my right arm at all because I figured it was simply a burden.  08:02 It was something that was never going to get any better and I still did try all kinds of different modalities.  08:09 You know as many things as the 90s in Ohio had to offer and, yeah, I got all the tools and gadgets you guys are probably familiar with.  08:23 I went to so many different experts and had all kinds of treatments, but it wasn't until I moved out to Boulder in 2011 that I met someone who did a very specific and very obscure type of fascia release, and I hadn't ever heard of fascia, which is wild.  08:43 I think I learned of it very briefly and fleetingly in college as an exercise physiology major, but had no real idea of what this thing was and it absolutely blew me away. So within three months of doing this type of fascia release, I felt more freedom and emotional releases and just a change, such a big change in the feeling function of my arm than I had in, you know, 23 years of trying all the other types of modalities. So it certainly made a big impact on me. I was like, wow, if this can make a difference for something that has been, you know, told to me that it is just irrevocable, what can this do for all of these other people experiencing pain and mobility problems just like me? So it catapulted me into doing what I do now and being obsessed with sharing about fascia with everyone.  09:46 - Hilary Russo (Host) Is that the way it always happens, though? When we find a solution for ourselves, we truly want to share it in any way we possibly can to help more people so that they don't go through the struggle we went through?  09:57 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Oh my gosh, absolutely, and you know, even since that initial experience. You know I'm a very active person. I've had bouts of knee pain, of low back pain, of neck pain and once you understand about fascia and how to release it and where to go to release it, I can solve just about any pain in a matter of days. It can be really simple when you understand where you need to go and how you need to release it.  10:24 - Hilary Russo (Host) And it's really about being an advocate for your own health, you know, understanding your body and what you need, and ask questions. I think a lot of times we go to doctors or we a lot of times people go to doctors and they just listen to what the doctor has to say and that's that and it's. And if you're not asking questions or if you feel strange or that, oh, I shouldn't be asking them. They're the authority. Nobody knows your body better than you and what you're feeling and what you're going through and what you're experiencing. And it's okay to ask questions. In fact, you should ask questions, you know.  11:04 And I got to tell you, julia I don't know how many times I've lost doctors that I've chosen specifically for a functional or integrative medicine. If them having that as part of their studies because you know those are extracurricular studies right, they don't learn that in medical school, but they don't learn nutrition, they don't learn the integrative approaches, and doctors will be the first to tell you that it has to be an extended, like it's extra education, right, but I've lost so many doctors because they're leaving these practices to go into their own practice so that they can serve people better, because a lot of them have been through their own stuff.  11:46 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Yeah, I think that's a you're hitting on a really good point to remind everyone, which is doctors are going to school to make sure that they can save your life.  11:55 They're mostly learning about medications and really imperative symptoms that they need to be able to catch early and and again save your life. If that's what's needed, they really don't have the training on, like what you said about nutrition, about gut health, about mental health, about fascia, about all of these things, and so it's very common that someone goes to the doctor for pain and they're only gonna get back what that person is trained in. So your doctors likely going to recommend pain pills, recommend a cortisone shot, you know, possibly recommend PT as well, but even things so far as surgery, and it's like if I can predict what they're gonna say. So most times, even when I was younger, I would be like you know, thank you for your time. I wanted to make sure this wasn't super serious and you know, politely, I'm gonna do this on my own yeah, and I wish I had that kind of knowledge when I had my TMJ surgery.  12:57 - Hilary Russo (Host) But I was 15, like what do?  12:58 you know you trust your parents, you trust your doctor. I've even had my mom come to me and say I'm so sorry, I didn't understand or didn't know, but that I don't blame right. But back then it was like here's the surgery, here's how you heal. There was no our Vedic. I've even had a vague therapist come to me and say you never had like any kind of massage on the inside. Nobody did anything to your job, like no, it was surgery and recovery. There was no rehabilitation and that's just that specific issue.  13:31 But I know there's people out there that have have been through their own upsets in their body, their own traumas in their body, and are still trying to figure out ways to relieve the pain but also manage it right. Because that which gets measured gets managed, that which we understand, we can befriend and have a relationship with it. And I'm curious like what area can fascia really help? We know we mentioned, we're thinking, the physical, we're thinking like the knees, the neck, the shoulders, parts of the body. But can it actually help deeper, like internally, like, say, with migraines or areas that you might not see and be able to physically move? But by relieving or causing release with the, the kind of work you do. Can it go deeper and help other problems?  14:27 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) yes, so because fascia wraps around every single thing in your body. It therefore influences the position and function of everything. So if it wraps around nerves and blood vessels and joints and bones, right, something that you likely think is a disc issue, it's a structural issue, it's a migraine that seems totally at a left field. These are all things that are in fact related to fascia. So if we go back to that plastic wrap analogy you know that's not like a hundred percent accurate, but it's a good way to visualize it.  15:04 To start, if that area of plastic wrap starts to stick to itself and become more restricted and dehydrated, like a little crumpled up ball of plastic wrap, that's going to start to pull on a whole series of muscles and bones and then you're likely going to experience something that's further down the line, that has nothing to do with that actual area of crumpled up plastic wrap. But again, it could be a pinched nerve, something that you think is nerve related, something that you think is joint related, or, you know, I've heard it be called structural things. I can't tell you how many people have come to my office and they're like well, I'm concerned about this knee pain, but I also know it's a structural thing and I'm like, oh, pumpkin, let's get started you call him pumpkin.  15:53 I call him sunshine, yeah, I was like you're my people let's, let's start working and then you, you know, we can decide if this is an actual structural problem, because most of the time it's not. There's a reason that your disc is being herniated right and it's not actually your spine. It's because there's a whole series of facial tension and muscles being pulled in a different direction, causing that disc to be herniated. So I'm very big about helping other people find the root cause instead of you know. You mentioned pain management. I sort of hate that term. So it's like why would we want to manage pain?  16:30 - Hilary Russo (Host) let's actually find the root cause and straight up, eliminate it yeah, well, when I mean manage, it's, it's building that relationship too, because when you think pain management, sometimes you do think traditional doctors. But sure one, what? What can be helpful with that is not just sloughing it off as oh, it is what it is right. There is a way to get to the root cause of whatever it is. Whether we can help with that, you know, with the work you do, or with the work I do, or we can find somebody for you that can be part of your. You know your entourage that helps you on your healing journey. You know Absolutely how can this really become unhealthy in your body if you don't learn how to get to the root cause.  17:23 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Well, there's a couple different ways. I suppose we can start with what causes fascia to become unhealthy in the first place. So number one likely the most common is underuse. None of us are really moving the way that our bodies are intended. Myself included, I end up spending a lot of time with my work looking down as I work on people. We all spend more time sitting or at desk than we ought to, and so not moving our body in that full range of motion or in all of this very dynamic ways of moving, that's a big one. Repetitive movements in a more in an overuse way is also big.  18:04 So I've worked on a lot of professional athletes over the years. So the baseball players, the tennis players, anyone who is swinging in the same way over and over again or throwing in the same way, that can absolutely start to change and restrict fascia. Injury any type of trauma that you've had, whether that's emotional or physical, something like a car accident and just stress in general. Those were the most common, and so we all have trauma. We've all had injuries before. It's just a process of the more time we have on this earth, the more things that we accumulate.  18:46 - Hilary Russo (Host) You have a different baggage. You either store it in the seat pocket in front of you the overhead or you check it. Sometimes you can fit it under your seat, but we all have trauma or baggage of some type, and when we learn where we can store it or where it is stored rather, then we know how to deal with it and hopefully we don't have to check it.  19:09 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Right, yeah, but if it is something that's happening, you'll likely experience some kind of stiffness, achiness, pain could be fully chronic pain. We talked about pinched nerves, about poor posture. There's really an endless list of things that you might start to feel when your fascia becomes more dense. It becomes more dehydrated. You might feel like you're very prone to injuries and you're pulling muscles a lot, or feeling like it takes a really long time to recover from your workout. Maybe you've got a lot of brain fog and you just feel more heavy and dense and sluggish. There's a lot of different ways that fascia could be impacting both your mental and your physical state.  19:56 - Hilary Russo (Host) That's so important that we talk about that too, because it isn't just the physical, it is the emotional, mental as well. And I've found a lot of relief just in the work that I do, especially with the havening technique and even with hypnotherapy, that using these beautiful tools, these neuroscience-based tools, it has helped me even on my own journey, but even with my clients who might be dealing with upsets in their body, what you would normally help folks with Whether it is mobility or performance and being able to work with multiple practitioners, like I said, kind of building your tribe, your entourage can be very helpful, because getting to the root isn't just one thing. It's almost like when you're planting a garden you don't just worry about the soil, you worry about the sunlight, you worry about the watering, you worry about a number of different aspects of it, and all of those are like the tools, the little brain candy that you're putting in there. So it's really important everyone to really understand where you are feeling this and is it emotional, is it physical? Because it all comes back to that gut-brain response. It's affecting you in every area of your body and it's just finding the right people to serve and help you. So I want to stop real quick, julia.  21:22 Just to mention to folks that Julia has graciously referred to share her free foam rolling video. It's called Unlock your Hips. I love that, by the way. That's really great, and I'm going to share that in the podcast notes so that you can download it. You have Julia right by your side, of course. We'll share more information about Julia so that you can reach out to her if you want to Tap into this even further and learn more about what she does. And let's kind of get into things a little deeper though, too, because you have this program called the. I'm going to say Fasha. I want to say it so badly.  22:05 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) It sounds so aristocratic when I say it that way, fasha does sound fancier. I'll definitely do that it does.  22:12 - Hilary Russo (Host) I feel like maybe that's a New York thing, I don't know. So I want to take a poll with folks real quick. Would you say Fasha, or would you say Fasha, or do you say something else? Let me know. Share it in a comment to me. Let's find out what you say. I'm curious because you know different dialects all over the country and even all over the world. You hear everything, but nothing's wrong. We start wronging ourselves. That's when we really question what we feel about ourselves. So, Fasha or Fasha, let us know. Oh, it is like really hard to say that. So can you tell us about the remedy that you've created?  22:54 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Well, the fashion remedy is the methodology that I've created. After all of the experience I've had running my practice the last decade and a bunch of different modalities that I've learned, I've taken a lot of the most effective pieces and made my own amalgamation. So I'm now teaching certifications in both foam rolling and the actual bodywork technique that I do in my practice in Denver. So that's more of the educational side of my business. If anyone is interested in learning how to, I mean mostly do it for yourself, but you can also now, after that, be able to do it for other people as well.  23:34 I've had a lot of people go through the program simply because they want to be able to work on their partner or their daughter or someone that really needs it, and they're like this is the only thing that has ever worked and they get it. They see the results for themselves because it is. It's different. It's different from a lot of things that are out there, mostly through understanding pain patterns and these lines of pull we have in the body and also by having the active movement component of what I do. So, even though you know we talked about my free foam rolling video series, it's not your standard rolling friends, it's not just aimlessly rolling back and forth on the roller, it's very intentional. There's a lot of slow breathing and active movement and it really makes a big difference when you're looking to make change to something that normally does not want to change easily.  24:28 - Hilary Russo (Host) The fact that you mentioned breathing. I want to elaborate on that because breath is so important. And the fact that it's not just about just rolling around on your roller, because I learned that when I actually learned the technique myself, that it's very intentional where you are placing the roller, how long it's sitting there, how you were breathing during the entire process and really the release you feel in such a short amount of time, like I never experienced anything like it. So I think it's very important for us to to elaborate on that, that it's not just rolling around on a roller, because we see them at the gym, right, a trainer might tell you to get on it for a couple of minutes to release some of the tension. I, I get it, but it's it's so much more. And the tools. If we have the tools for ourselves, like you say, or your family or somebody that you love, that you could encourage them how to do it correctly. It it's going to help everyone in the long run, right?  25:32 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Yeah, and it really depends on what is your intention when you're using a roller in general, right, so you know, if you've been rolling around on your roller up until this point, it's certainly not wrong. That's the way I think they originally intended it to be used. However, while it's going to create a little bit of heat through friction and might be a good warm up tool, it might be able to hydrate some of the more superficial layers. You're not able to affect the deeper layers of fascia and that's usually what's causing the problem when it comes to pain. So if you're really looking to solve something like pain or a mobility restriction, rolling, unfortunately, is not going to be able to cut it.  26:11 - Hilary Russo (Host) Yeah yeah Is. Is unlock your hips just a video series, or is it all part of a podcast as well? I think that was a little unclear on that.  26:20 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) So it's a free video series that lives on my website and it's just a way for you to start learning how to foam roll in the way that I typically recommend. So and I know we were going to talk about breathing yeah, breathing is definitely breathing yes.  26:37 Breathing. So no, no change can happen in our body without our nervous system saying that it's okay. And the odds are going to go way up if our nervous system is in a parasympathetic state, which is just the calming side of our nervous system, right? So the easiest way that we can tap into that calming side of the nervous system is through breathing really deeply, down to the low abdomen and through the diaphragm. So I will say the type of fascia release and the type of rolling I recommend people do. There can be a lot of intensity to it.  27:14 Usually, the first time someone hops on and starts doing it this specific way, they're like what, the what? This hurts a lot. So I'm like, okay, we need to figure out where is a place that we can be at maybe a six or seven out of 10 on their subjective scale with the intensity at a max. So does that mean that we need to wrap the roller in a yoga mat to add padding? Does it mean we need to stop and breathe really deeply a few times before we start the actual movement?  27:45 Either way, that's a really important part of this, just so that your body can integrate this change more effectively. So you get no gold stars for a scrunched face, holding your breath, gritting your teeth as you really quickly move through this movement. It's not going to do the same thing. So I absolutely would say it's a huge part of what I do is being able to re or just change your relationship with sensation. Like, can we actually train your body to feel safe while you're feeling a lot of sensation? Because most of the time when you feel something that intense, it's a bad thing, right? So if you can train yourself to be calm through this range of motion and while you're doing this release, it can also really change your relationship with stress in general. So I've seen it have some very interesting effects on people's stress management overall.  28:44 - Hilary Russo (Host) Oh, I love that you're hitting on that, because I say that all the time, especially with the havening work, because havening is a transitive verb for the word haven, which means safe place, and you need to have that safe place. If you are in a state of fight, flight, freeze or fawn, you certainly are not going to be feeling calm and connected to what you're doing. So, even with this kind of work, it's knowing that this is a tool that's going to help you and serve you and it's a safe place to be. So hitting on that is so important and obviously anytime we can be in parasympathetic. High five to that right Great.  29:23 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Yeah, it's certainly a process. It's certainly a process that took me maybe even a couple of months, when I first was doing this on my own, of being like man. I really have to take my time, I have to move slower. Maybe I am unable to do the full range of motion that I wanted to the first couple of times, but it does get better quickly, I would say. Most people that I work with, even after just two weeks, they're like oh my gosh, this is way less intense than it used to be because you're able to integrate those changes much more quickly through this style.  29:59 - Hilary Russo (Host) And you're able to properly restore it, you're able to see it change. I mean, how fast, would you say? I know every person is different it's bioindividuality but over the time that you've been working with folks in this area, how fast do you see them finding that relief?  30:19 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) Well, you're right, it certainly depends on the individual. I have man as good. 75% of people feel a difference after one time that they'll be like wow, I feel a lot lighter, I feel more blood flow, I feel at least a small decrease in the sensation I was feeling. But even, as I would say, maybe as long as two weeks, two to three weeks, to feel something, but it happens quickly within the first couple of weeks, absolutely, people feel a difference.  30:52 - Hilary Russo (Host) Is it encouraged that folks do it daily, that they foam roll daily, or even more than just the foam rolling, the breathing, everything that comes along with your remedy?  31:03 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) So if you're experiencing a lot of pain and discomfort, I would say doing it daily would be really helpful, just because we want to interrupt this pattern of the nervous system firing this pain signal. We want to interrupt any poor movement patterns that might be happening in the body. However, we also need to find this place where we're not overdoing it or overworking the tissue, and that absolutely depends on the person. So actually just had a client come in after I think we'd had a week and a half apart of him coming in and he was like, oh my gosh, I did the foam rolling every day, sometimes twice a day, and I'm feeling pretty good, but I'm like really sore. I've been really sore all week and I'm like, okay, so we actually don't want that. We want to do less is more sometimes with that.  31:57 So I've certainly seen that a lot where someone with back pain. I show them how to release their quads really effectively and they feel relief and so they're like, wow, if I felt that much relief from releasing my quads for five minutes, what will 30 minutes do? But it's overdoing it. So if there's any kind of soreness, if there's really, spending more than five minutes on an area is truly unnecessary, in my opinion, when you're doing the active movement component. So, depending on the person, you might want to back it off and do it every other day or a couple of times a week and just see how your body feels Great.  32:36 - Hilary Russo (Host) Good tips, love that. So just a reminder that Julia is giving away a free foam rolling video. It's part of her series called Unlock your Hips. Again, I love that. We're going to put the link in the podcast notes to movement by Julia, which is her website. And then also, I want to play a little game with you, julia. This is something I do with my guests at the latter part of the podcast. I'm going to throw out a word to you and I want you to come back with a first word that comes to mind. Julia Blackwell (Guest) oh, no, okay. Hilary Russo (Host) Oh, I know, I love it. I love this reaction. I keep thinking I should do this at the beginning, but then that changes everything. We'll have a little fun here. Okay, all right, here we go. Breath, deep. Mobility. Julia Blackwell (Guest) full Body work Hilary Russo (Host) Lovely, you're good at this, you're fast. Parasympathetic Julia Blackwell (Guest) Nervous system. Hilary Russo (Host) foam Roller. Julia Blackwell (Guest) Remedy fascia. 33:37 Hilary Russo (Host) And then the last word is fascia. I'm going to say it your way. Fascia, Fascia, tomato, tomato, same thing, same.  33:58 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) I love it.  34:00 - Hilary Russo (Host) This has been a pleasure. I've been really, really happy to have you talk about this. This is again, like I mentioned earlier, it is a topic I haven't covered and I feel that this is so important because, again, it's about understanding your body, the friending the parts of your body, and realizing that there are tools out there, my friends, that can help you, that you might not have discovered yet, or, if you have, maybe just understanding how to do it better, support your body better and Julia, you've been a great source for that and the fascia remedy.  34:35 - Julia Blackwell (Guest) We're going to share everything about that, the links in the notes, and is there anything you want to share, just with listeners, as a final thought, Just that I deeply understand what it feels like to think you're some kind of a medical unicorn and that there's nothing out there that can possibly help because your thing is so specific or it's so severe. But there really can be answers that you just don't know how to get there yet, and I'm certainly happy to help anyone on that path because I know how it feels.  35:07 - Hilary Russo (Host) Yeah, I get it. We're here to serve right. Absolutely. Thanks for being here. Thanks so much, Hilary.  35:16 If you want to learn more about Julia and the fascia remedy, be sure to connect with her on social media. Also, head on over to her website for that free foam rolling video series that she's sharing called Unlock your Hips. I know I'm going to be downloading it. I hope you do too. Give it a try.  35:33 All of her info is available to you in the notes of this episode, and if you're interested to see how havening can help you with the emotional side of your journey and be kind to your mind, I want you to do yourself a favor. I have a new challenge out there for you. It's called HUG it Out challenge five day challenge. Give it a try. Part of that challenge is a self havening guided video experience with me to help you change your thoughts, your moods, your behaviors, your habits and really help you from getting unstuck.  36:10 Okay, and it's a fun way to take control of your health and start being empowered to live your best HIListically ,Speaking, is edited by two market media, with music by Lipbone Reading and supported by you. So thank you again and again for making this conversation, and many conversations part of your day. Just by listening to  HIListically Speaking Podcast and supporting  you're taking a step in the right direction to be an advocate for your own health. I'm proud of you for that. I love you, I believe in you and I will see you next week.  36:48 Be well.   

As a March baby myself, there's an extra spring in my step when this month rolls around, not just for the promise of longer days but for celebrating the indomitable spirit of women throughout history. But what about our own stories of triumph and the quiet impact we've made? That's the heart of our latest chat, where we turn the spotlight inward and take a deep dive into the importance of the words we use and choose and the thoughts and worries that determine our day. I got real about the inner battles we all face, like stress, self-doubt, and that nagging inner critic that's all too familiar. I share my journey of overcoming these hurdles with insights into neuroscience, and discuss how changing our mindset can dramatically alter our relationship with stress. Plus, a giveaway for one lucky listener and a bonus meditation to close our conversation.⁣ ⁣ In honor of Women’s History Month, I’m giving one woman that chance to work with me for free. Just schedule your session and mention you heard about it on the podcast.⁣ https://hilaryrusso.as.me/hugitout⁣ ⁣⁣ Connect with Hilary:⁣ https://www.instagram.com/hilaryrusso⁣ ⁣https://www.youtube.com/hilaryrusso⁣ https://www.facebook.com/hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://twitter.com/HilaryRusso⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣ ⁣Music by Lipbone Redding https://lipbone.com/⁣ ⁣ ----- EPISODE CHAPTERS WITH SHORT KEY POINTS ------⁣ ⁣ CHAPTERS  ⁣ 0:00  Intro⁣ about March and Honoring the Divine Feminine⁣ 0:45   Confronting the inner bully, worries and self-doubt⁣ 1:06  Hilary shares her personal story and the If/Then Game    ⁣ 3:33  Relate. React. Respond.⁣ 4:48  Hilary’s giveaway to HUG it Out⁣ 5:45 Bonus Guided Meditation with music by Lipbone Redding⁣ ⁣ --------- EPISODE TRANSCRIPT ---------⁣ Full Transcript available here: https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast HILARY RUSSO⁣ 00:00 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I am all kinds of giddy because March is my favorite month. It marks the beginning of spring. Daylight Savings is just around the corner. It's the month when I was born Shout out to you if you're a March baby too. And it's Women's History Month. What a great time to be empowered and inspired by what other women have accomplished over the years. Who's your favorite? Who inspires you? Actually, I have a better question for you. What about your own accomplishments, and who have you touched, moved, and inspired in your life? ⁣ ⁣ 00:35⁣ Now, if you're struggling with that thought, if you have a hard time thinking that you've made a difference in someone's life and you're hard on yourself, wondering why someone else is getting more done in their lives, or you're overwhelmed and you're feeling stuck, that inner bully is definitely showing up in the moment. How many times do you let that doubt creep in? You allow the inner dialogue to take over and enter stress? I get it. I've dealt with it too. ⁣ ⁣ 01:05⁣ Here's a little story for you. My dad used to call me a worry wart, because if I could worry about something, I would find it, and I would definitely worry about it to the end of time. In fact, I had this ridiculous game that I used to play. I called it the if-then game. Yeah, I even gave it a name. It made no sense at all. It would go something like this If I can toss that little piece of paper into the wastebasket, then I'm going to get an A on my test. Yeah, like I said, it makes no sense. Here's another one If I can make that light before it turns red, I'm totally going to get asked to prom. So, spoiler alert, I got asked to prom, but it really had nothing to do with me making the red light. It's ridiculous, right? How the hell did any of this benefit me? What was the value in that kind of game? Reality check, it had no positive impact on my life. If anything, it made me more stressed and I was putting way too much pressure on myself. ⁣ ⁣ 02:11⁣ You see, stress consumed me as a kid and it didn't stop there. The smallest things would worry me. I was anxious, I would have panic attacks about things I couldn't control, but the one thing I actually could control was my thoughts about the thing I was stressing about. Imagine that it was a vicious cycle, but I didn't have the tools and I felt the overwhelm and I felt it often and it sucked. And it wasn't just Hillary as a kid, it was also the adult, me as well. Man, adulting, it can be hard, and it comes with its fair share of responsibility, doesn't it? But the bigger responsibility is not the task at hand, it's what I'm about to share with you right now. ⁣ ⁣ 03:01⁣ I figured something out you can control much of what you're feeling by changing your mindset, your energy, your thoughts. This isn't woo-woo, this is neuroscience. And when I started to really do the inner work, when I found others who could guide me and support me on my journey, something really changed. I changed, and guess what? It's something I work at every day, because stress doesn't go away, turns up in life daily. The difference is this it's not that you are void of it, you just learn to relate, react, and respond to it differently. That's the gold, right there. Let me say it again Relate, react, respond. ⁣ ⁣ 03:55⁣ The moment you get that in check, you open yourself up to a whole lot of goodness in life. But how? Yeah, I ask myself that question a lot, and it is pretty common to have doubt. After all, that's where our brain loves to go Fight, flight, or freeze. Right, Amy the amygdala is like a scared animal running for shelter, and when that happens, you spend a lot of time visiting skeptical city, questioning yourself, your actions, feeling stuck. ⁣ ⁣ 04:31⁣ The big shift is deciding how long you want a vacation there. Stress central, please. There are plenty of other stops on this train I would rather get off at, so let's make that happen. And here's the good news. Like I said, march is the Wonder Month, my month, your month, women's month. So the best gift I could receive to celebrate another trip around the sun is to give you the gift of healing.  HUG it Out going to together. That is why I am giving one lucky woman the opportunity to work with me one-on-one, for free, to work through the stress that is consuming you, keeping you stuck, stopping you from shining like that bright star that you are. Whatever is holding you back and weighing you down will work through it and we'll HUG it out. All you have to do is take that first step and tell me why you would like to work with me, and then just click the link on the podcast page to give it a shot. The cool thing is we get to have a conversation either way, so it's really a win-win. ⁣ ⁣ 05:43⁣ So while I have you for the next few minutes, let's do a moment of mindfulness with my dear friend Lipbone, who shares his music on every episode to accompany us on the journey. ⁣ ⁣ 05:59⁣ Let the music guide you as you close your eyes and take a deep breath and ask yourself this question what is stressing me out that I want to work through? How do I want to feel? Joy, peace, calm, whatever it is. Let it show up for you, honor, it be okay, accepting this part of you, and then ask yourself this when is now the right time to step into the tension and know I am being handed the gift of guidance and support? Sit with that for a moment and take a deep breath and, when you're ready, open your eyes and know whatever it is you are feeling, it is valid and you are loved. HIListically Speaking, it's a beautiful possibility, isn't it, to see what is on the horizon and know that I am in your corner the entire way. So, on that note, give yourself the gift of healing and take a chance, a chance on yourself. Book the call and we will continue with a new conversation next week and until then, be kind to your mind and don't forget to laugh. ⁣ ⁣

Have you ever felt the weight of time, wishing for just a single day more to achieve your dreams? Time's elusive dance is the heartbeat of this episode, as we weave through the tapestry of a leap year's extra day—a gift of time. Along with listeners' shares, we ponder a number of ways you could enrich your life with those precious extra hours. From personal growth to the bliss of extra sleep, we explore the delicate balance of effort, surrender, and trust and take a brave leap forward to relinquish the reins of control, just a bit.  Plus, a challenge that’s like having me in your pocket whenever you need it.       ⁣ ⁣ Download the FREE HUG It Out 5 Day Challenge!⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/5daychallenge ⁣ Connect with Hilary:⁣ https://www.instagram.com/hilaryrusso⁣ ⁣https://www.youtube.com/hilaryrusso⁣ https://www.facebook.com/hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://twitter.com/HilaryRusso⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣ ⁣Music by Lipbone Redding https://lipbone.com/⁣ ⁣ ⁣ ----- EPISODE CHAPTERS WITH SHORT KEY POINTS ----- ⁣ CHAPTERS  ⁣ 0:00  Intro⁣ 1:21   Why do we have a leap year?⁣ 2:41   Audience shares. What they would do with extra time.⁣ 6:22   You choose to choose and the HUG it Out challenge.⁣ 8:22  Eight ways to leap into better health.⁣ 15:29 Closing thoughts ⁣ ⁣ --------- EPISODE TRANSCRIPT ---------⁣ 00:00 - Hilary Russo  ⁣ What would you do with one more day, if you were promised an extra 24 hours? How would you choose to spend that time, knowing that it was the only amount of time guaranteed to you? That's been on my mind a lot lately, especially with it being a leap year, a year that provides an extra day on the calendar, right? But here's the rub that day is not promised to you and it is not promised to me. What is promised is that the measure of time, that unit of time, is going to go on with or without you. So a calendar year is typically 365 days long, right? These so-called common years are the number of days it takes for the Earth to do a complete orbit around the sun, but 365 is actually the rounded number. It takes the Earth 365.242190 days, or five hours, 48 minutes and 56 seconds. That's almost six extra hours in that year, and that time has to be accounted for somehow. And that, my friends, is why we have February 29th. And I am not here to give you a science lesson, as nerdy as I might be, as interesting as it might be to you. I'm here to go back to that first question I asked you, with that extra day, if it was promised to you. What would you do to take the leap? ⁣ ⁣ 01:44⁣ As I'm recording this, I'm on a deadline to get this episode done. Boy, oh boy, I could really use some extra time. It was in perfect Hilary fashion. It was the last minute idea that came to me ADHD brain was really showing up. Oh, I'll do an episode about this. And I started saying things to myself like oh, I could really use an extra day. If you're like me, I bet you catch yourself saying that too. Don't you Just give me a minute? Can I get a tea by the end of the day? Oh, the hours are flying by. I mean, the list goes on and on, with all the excuses, right. In fact, I recently asked you about this very thing, both in my Havening Happy Hour and then on social media. I asked you what would you do if you had more time? What brave leap would you take? And these were the replies that came back, and you might identify with some of them. ⁣ ⁣ 02:42⁣ Ann said that she would use the time to promote her business and put herself out there more. Debbie would make a serious commitment and a plan for retirement. Rebecca would organize more activities and travel more with her kids. Matthew says work runs his life and he wants to relax more. Beverly wants more peace and tranquility in this last part of her life. Diane wants to build a website. Shelly wants time to work on her speaking and training business. Beth is leaping into making that long-term Italian visa a reality. Amy says she's got a big move coming up and that will likely shift her business. ⁣ ⁣ 03:17⁣ Julie is thinking if I had an extra day, I would launch my new podcast. Now there's a lot of wood is going out there instead of leaps. Right, this is a "no woulds zone. No woods just when what a could have showed a product. So when is now the right time? And the answer is in the question. You need to trust. Stop micromanaging the universe. That's not your job. Show up, be trust and let it do the work for you. Right, surrender and release. And then there's that one leap I hear about the most. ⁣ ⁣ 04:03⁣ If I had more time, if I had an extra hour or two, I would sleep more. We are a society, a nation and even a world that's really lacking sleep. And if you want to learn more about this, I actually shared all about sleep and our need for optimal sleep in episode 140 of the HIListically Speaking Podcast with sleep expert Molly Eastman. She was my guest on the show and she shared a lot of great advice on how to get optimal sleep. So be sure to download that episode after our little chat right here and before we move forward. ⁣ ⁣ 04:50⁣ I love that you tune into this show week after week. I love that you're pressing play, but I really need you to do me a solid okay so others can find this show, Make sure that you're not only subscribed, but that you also hit that download button when you're listening, wherever you're tuning in from. This actually helps independent podcasters like myself be found by others just like you, and that's what we're trying to do here. We're trying to provide a space that gives people the tools to be kind to their mind and be a happy, healthy grown-up. So hit that subscribe button, tap the download, press play and off we go. Okay, so let's take that leap. ⁣ ⁣ 05:39⁣ February 29th is leap day. I want to remind you that, even though it's just about six hours of extra time that leap year provides us, it's more about you getting into the mindset of using your time effectively, whether it is on leap day or any day really. So if this episode is reaching your ears on leap day. That's great. There's a reason for that. But if it's not, there's a reason for that too. Everything's a message, everything's a sign. So stop for a moment and think why now? Why today? Right, because in the silence the answers do come. ⁣ ⁣ 06:22⁣ You can choose to do something you've been working on and we heard a number of different ways you can do that or start something brand new. You heard many examples of people wanting to dive into something that could really benefit their lives, and that's the beauty of life. You choose to choose. And if you're feeling a bit of self-doubt with trying something new or diving into something and leaping into something you've been thinking about but it's been on the back burner, you just need to hug it out, and I'm going to help you with that and you're going to love what I have to share. I have a special gift for you on this episode. I've never done this before. I'm sharing a link to download my Hug it Out Challenge for free Five days to add more awareness, allowance and alignment in your life, with humor, understanding and gratitude. H-U-G gotta HUG it Out. So make sure you check the link in the podcast notes of this episode to grab that PDF. It is absolutely free. It's the first time I've ever shared it. Like I said, this version, and I want you to reach out to me afterwards, after you download it, after you do the five days, let me know how it's going for you. ⁣ ⁣ 07:40⁣ Choosing little changes in your every day is what is going to create the space for the life that you deserve, and I want to help you do that. And part of that extra time is to provide you with ways to get you in the flow and sometimes taking that first step is the hardest into that leap right, that first push, when you hug it out with yourself to be brave and to take the leap knowing that you will not fall, and even if you do, you will get back up right. Weebles wobble, but they don't fall down. The one place to start is always with self-care. So I want you to take a deep breath and connect to what I'm about to share with you. ⁣ ⁣ 08:24⁣ Sometimes, even with a little extra time, you procrastinate, don't you? I'll do it tomorrow, I'll get it done at some point. You think that time is promised to you. It's not. Like I said before, let's be intentional and use this time well and be grateful for it, too Grateful for every moment you have. We don't need to be abusing time. We need to work with time. So here are eight ways to take a leap into better health now that you have a little extra time. Not when, but now. And we're going to start with the big one Sleep. ⁣ ⁣ 09:08⁣ You need to get more sleep. Make it a priority. Imagine if you have an extra five to six hours of sleep, or even divide that up to have an extra hour for five or six days. Lack of sleep increases your risk for obesity, infections, heart disease, depression. The list goes on and on. Not to mention, you're going to be a little bit grumpy, right? So make sleep a priority. Okay, and I will join you on that. One Will not join you with your sleep, but you know what I'm saying. I'll join you on that journey. I want you to move your body. ⁣ ⁣ 09:51⁣ Take this time to leap into an activity you enjoy. It doesn't have to be an hour of fitness. It can be simply taking a walk in the park, or what about dancing around your living room? When is the last time you did that? The American Heart Association recommends moderate intensity activity at least 150 minutes per week. That's about a half hour, five days a week. You have 30 minutes. Use it effectively. That's time well spent. I want you to connect. Give yourself more time for human connection. It can be coffee with a friend or even a phone call. If you're going to move, you might as well ask somebody to take a walk with you. Strong, healthy relationships promote better well-being, and human connection is essential for healthy living. ⁣ ⁣ 10:50⁣ How about upping those skills? Have you thought about learning a musical instrument or a new language? But you keep thinking, ah, it's going to be too hard, it's going to take too much time. Or you want to learn CPR, but you've been putting it on hold. Or how about finishing that book? I'm raising my hand on that one. I've been putting that on the back burner, thinking when am I going to find the time? That self-doubt has got to go and trust me, I get it. But note to self and to you, time isn't promised. Do something you haven't done before that will ignite your mind and challenge you. I promise you you'll feel better. ⁣ ⁣ 11:35⁣ Volunteer Acts of kindness can do a lot for your mental health, and imagine what it can do for those that you're serving. It can really be anything you want it to be Finding something that you really connect with and brings you joy. So a little story for you. When I was living in New York City, I was a volunteer for therapeutic horseback riding. Yes, there are actually horse stables in New York City. It brought me such joy. Right, it aligned with what I love children, animals being of service. So look for those moments. What do you love? Find that thing and then lend a hand. You're going to feel so much better when you do. And, yes, you have the time, or you're going to make the time right. ⁣ ⁣ 12:29⁣ Eat! Mangia! That's our next one. And yes, you should enjoy foods you love. Have you ever wondered why people in areas like the Blue Zones are breaking the 100 mark, living past 100? They eat foods that are healthy, but they also eat foods they enjoy. And food is a relationship, and you might remember my conversation with Blue Zones founder Dan Buettner on Episode 66, when we talked about the nine principles of longevity. Nourishment is more than just what you physically eat. Your relationship with yourself includes everything around you. So treat yourself. Why rob yourself of life's pleasures? And if you need help creating a better relationship with food, that's something you struggle with. I got you. There's a link in the notes of this episode to support you on that journey, because we'll get you there. ⁣ ⁣ 13:24⁣ I want you to pamper yourself. You don't have to hit the spa to treat yourself right, okay, one of my favorite things to do is take a bubble bath. I am a bubble bath fanatic and I love to soak and I love to sit in the tub. It can be as simple as that. It can be anything you want it to be. Actually Read a book, just rest your eyes for a little bit, listen to some great music and look, I'm a gal that also loves bumping it up a notch and hitting a spa or getting a massage or a mani-pedi. You can do that too. Maybe a run or hike or, even better, a little havening session, a little CPR for your amygdala Hampering yourself will help boost your mood, so why wouldn't you want to add that to your day? ⁣ ⁣ 14:12⁣ And last but not least, gratitude. Practice gratitude every day, numerous times a day, for the little things and the big things. I can't say that enough and I know I've said this numerous times on this podcast when you start your day with two minutes of gratitude, compared to three minutes of grabbing your phone and going and doing and getting up and moving and not really giving yourself time to appreciate you and the things that you provide in this world and put out there in the world, and even the things around that bring you joy. Those two minutes, six to eight hours later, have a 27% more likelihood of bringing you a good day, a happy day, compared to those three minutes doing that other thing. That's a lot of time to put on the table, and that G in the gratitude is the H-U-G and hug it out. ⁣ ⁣ 15:10⁣ And it's not just about that gratitude, like I said, towards others and experiences. It really starts with self, it begins with in. That's where I want you to start. Those small moments of appreciation are going to make big dents in happy living. So that's it. Eight ideas. Eight ideas, sunshine. ⁣ ⁣ 15:29⁣ Imagine what you can do if you just take one step forward into that leap and be brave. It becomes so much easier after that, after you take that first step right. It's momentum, it's movement, it's energy. So be brave and hug it out every day. And remember to download that five day challenge, the Hug it Out Challenge. It is my gift to you to take that brave leap into a new day and a new possibility. And, of course, I want to thank you for tuning in week after week. Thank you for subscribing, for downloading so others find this show too and reminding me to keep showing up. That's what you do for me Keep showing up and keep pressing record, Hil. Yeah, I'm grateful for that every day. So, on that note, be brave and leap, because I promise you the net will appear. I love you and I believe in you. Be well. ⁣ ⁣

When it comes to grief, it’s possible to live happily…even after. Rebecca Johnson knows her fair share of loss. Just weeks after the sudden death of her husband, she found out she had a rare and inoperable eye cancer. On this episode of the HIListically Speaking Podcast, Rebecca shares how an unexpected twist of humor and courage was the calling she needed to press “record” and heal. By sharing the message to “Widow Your Way”, she found resiliency and community with a mission to take back control and find joy in the everyday, no matter the loss.⁣   Connect with Rebecca and tune into her podcast Love is Not Dead…Just My Husband⁣ on any podcast platform.  https://www.instagram.com/loveisnotdead_justmyhusband/⁣ https://www.facebook.com/loveisnotdeadjustmyhusband⁣ ⁣ If you’re struggling to find your way through a loss in your life, let’s see if Havening is right for you on your healing journey. Book a complimentary clarity call and let’s HUG it Out and heal. https://hilaryrusso.as.me/hugitout⁣ If this episode has touched, moved and inspired you, pay it forward and consider leaving a rating and review wherever you’re tuning in. ⁣ ⁣ Connect with Hilary:⁣ https://www.instagram.com/hilaryrusso⁣ ⁣https://www.youtube.com/hilaryrusso⁣ https://www.facebook.com/hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://twitter.com/HilaryRusso⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣ ⁣Music by Lipbone Redding https://lipbone.com/⁣ ⁣ ⁣ --------- EPISODE CHAPTERS WITH SHORT KEY POINTS ------ ⁣ 00:00 Navigating Widowhood and Overcoming Loss⁣ 00:30 Transforming Traumas Into Triumphs⁣ 05:06 The Power of Podcasting⁣ 08:21 Gratitude, Loss, and Legacy⁣ 12:21 Embracing Widowhood and Overcoming Challenges⁣ 29:43 Empowering Widows Through Personalized Grieving⁣ 33:44 Self Care and Dating Adventures⁣ 42:45 Word Association Game in Podcast⁣ 46:29 Connect With Rebecca Johnson's Podcast⁣ ⁣ --------- EPISODE TRANSCRIPT ---------⁣ ⁣ 00:00 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ For me, it turned out that my widowhood journey was nothing about my husband. It's not. Being a widow has absolutely nothing to do with your dead husband. It's all about you. You are the widow. It's called widowhood for a reason. It's your journey, it's about you. ⁣ ⁣ 00:25 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Well, one of my favorite sayings is you choose to choose. I know you've heard me say that before if you've been tuning into HIListically  Speaking for some time, and it's really a reminder that we truly can change our thoughts and then change our lives in that very moment. Right, and it doesn't mean that we should not feel our feelings or our emotions, it doesn't mean we should ignore the upsets or the traumas that have happened in our lives. But by choosing to choose, we have this ability to really take our lives back and I know I've been on that place a few times myself to turn those traumas into the triumphs, one day at a time. Rebecca Johnson, you reminded me of that Now. For those of you who don't know Rebecca, you will after this. ⁣ ⁣ 01:14⁣ She is the host of the podcast Love is Not Dead. Just my husband and I met you during she Podcast Live and also PodFest, and while I was the one presenting on the stage and sharing and hopefully people were learning something from what I had to share. I learned so much from you, just having a little time with you during those four days down in Florida, and I just am so elated to have you here to share your story, to share parts of who you are, to share your podcast and just really be in the room with you right now. ⁣ ⁣ 01:46 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ So thank you so much for being here, sweet Rebecca oh my God, that is so flattering and I mean thank you for having me. I was so ecstatic whenever you said you wanted me on your podcast because your energy when I met you after the award and you came up and talked to me I've honestly only met one other stranger in that same type of scenario where their energy just drew me to you. ⁣ ⁣ 02:22 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ So yeah, I'm elated and touched by that and I think you know for me, thank you for that, for me, putting out that beacon, we tend to align with those who will mirror back at us. Right, it's being in the room, it's creating that vibe and, you know, it's like the saying like survive a tractor tribe, right, and we are in that room with a tribe of people, with a group of women who are podcasters, who are making a difference in this world. Plus, can I just add, before we go any further and into your story, this gal won, like the People's Choice Award during that she Podcast Live. You won the Sonic Bloom Award, which was like the award of awards that everybody thought, your podcast, which you've only had for a year. Again, love is not dead, just my husband. We're going to talk about that. ⁣ ⁣ 03:13⁣ So, congratulations, thank you, love that and you know, for those of you who do not know Rebecca yet, like I said, you will, but she is a widow. She has survived multiple losses in a very short period of time. You've also dealt with a rare cancer that you're still you're still are working through. You've made it your mission to say that you're going to widow your way. Love that and how to move forward in life and loss without going down that rabbit hole. That is so easy to do because the brain will instantly go to that place right, it hates uncertainty. It's going to protect itself, go to the safe place and you're like kind of pulling people back. Pulling people back just from your own story. So such a beautiful lesson that we learn from our own upsets in our lives and I just love where you're going with this. ⁣ ⁣ 04:05 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Thank you so much. It's been. Podcasting has been a big part of my healing journey and it helped me heal a lot of things that I thought I had already addressed, you know, before, and it brought up a lot of things that, in grief, that I realized that I hadn't worked through, and podcasting has been a big part of that. ⁣ ⁣ 04:35 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ So, before we pressed record, I was telling you about my journey, about how I got into podcasting. You know, being in the broadcasting world for 30 years and then moving into this field of mental health, it was the one area I hadn't tapped into was the podcasting world. So people are always interested in how you find podcasting. So, for you, what, what was your story and what made you say I'm going to press record, I'm going to be open and vulnerable and courageous and share my journey. ⁣ ⁣ 05:06 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ So a friend of mine that I met in the same way that I met you, which just brings this full circle. So I'm really enjoying this moment. I met her on a trip in Mexico and Tulum and just her energy, her presence, everything about her I was just. I wanted to be in her space the entire time Like I felt safe, and she. We became friends. She invited me to speak at a women's wellness event that she had. ⁣ ⁣ 05:47⁣ And I have done public speaking, but not on a stage like that and just usually for work stuff, because that's the things that I know, and when you know something very well, you feel comfortable talking about it. So I've only done public speaking for work events and so I did that. I think I did horribly, but everyone seemed to like it. And then we were talking afterwards and she was like I really think you should tell your story. You can help so many people. What can I do to get you on this speaking journey? And I was very nervous about that. So, instead of going through public speaking and being on stage and people actually seeing me, we talked through it and I can do the same thing, but hidden Like behind the mic. I don't necessarily have to show my face, and I don't have to show my vulnerability, and I don't have to show that I'm scared and I'm upset or sad. I can just be hidden and stay behind the mic. So that's how podcasting came about. ⁣ ⁣ 07:07 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ But, interestingly enough, even though we're behind the mic and we might be expressing and opening our heart and soul, there is still a sense of vulnerability, because your voice is very powerful too. People get to know you, they resonate with the voice, they resonate with the person behind the microphone as well, and it's kind of like being a fly on the wall many times in this work that we do as podcasters. So for you and I briefly mentioned your cancer survivor your survivor of grief multiple times, like you had mentioned in part of your story is that you lost your husband a number of years ago and then six months later you found out you had cancer, and then you recently just told me that you also lost your brother. So can we talk about that journey a little bit? ⁣ ⁣ 08:01 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Yeah, absolutely. It was my husband. I lost him first and it was May 2018. It was very unexpected. He had no health issues, except for some sleep apnea, but he passed away peacefully in a sleep. ⁣ ⁣ 08:21⁣ So sometimes I get a little nervous about telling the story, talking about the death and talking about my husband, because so many other widowers and podcasters out there sharing their stories and telling their stories. They have really traumatic losses and even though and I used to downplay that a lot I used to say you know, I'm so grateful that my husband didn't commit suicide, I'm so grateful that my husband wasn't in a traumatic accident, but what I found that I was doing is I was using gratitude in the wrong way and I was not taken in consideration my own grief, and I was downplaying my grief to others, and which ultimately had me into the realization after a while. You know, losses, loss it doesn't matter and I don't judge anyone for the losses that they grieve, whether it's a pet or a spouse, or a parent, or a job or, you know, just a boyfriend. We're all grieving and that is all the same. And similar. ⁣ ⁣ 09:57 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Elaborate on that, because gratitude to hear that you're using gratitude the wrong way. What do you mean by that? ⁣ ⁣ 10:05 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ I downplay what's happening in my life because I feel like it's not as important as what's happening in someone else's life. And then, when I first learned about gratitude which I know some people might find that strange, like what do you mean you first learned about gratitude? When I first learned about gratitude, I didn't know that you should wake up and be grateful for something. I didn't know that there was this thing. Tell me three things that you're grateful for today. And when I did and I learned that the first time that a friend of mine asked me to do that, I didn't know what to say and I literally asked her can you explain gratitude to me? And she didn't make me feel stupid about it. She was very gracious. She explained gratitude and she said you know you don't have to be grateful for all these great big, amazing things. She said you can just be grateful that you're here and we're having this cup of coffee, and so that's how it started out for me. ⁣ ⁣ 11:17⁣ I would just say I'm so grateful for this coffee today, or I'm so grateful that the weather is beautiful outside. So I started out with little things of gratitude and then I worked my way up to bigger things. I was using it, in a way, to excuse myself and downplay my feelings and what's going on with me, to uplift someone else or make them feel like they are more important. What they're going through is worse than what I'm going through, when in actuality it's not. And it really made me realize that, yes, we can be grateful for things during bad times, but we don't have to act like, we don't have to use gratitude in a way that makes our bad things irrelevant. I hope I explained that right. ⁣ ⁣ 12:21 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I love that you're touching on this, yeah, and this is such a big part of my hug it out method that I was sharing with you before and also when you, you and I met at the conference and that you know. Hug it out is about taking time to embrace yourself and a big part of that is the G and the hug it out, which is the gratitude, it's the self, it's the humor, it's the understanding and the gratitude that is really involved in the healing. And that gratitude is what are you appreciative for about yourself that you're putting out in this world? And you're right A lot of times we look at gratitude as, like this grand big thing, like you have to be grateful for the big things in life, but it's getting up in those first moments before you put your feet on the floor. In fact, there's a Harvard research review study, rebecca, and to those listening that says if you start your day with two minutes of gratitude before you pick up your phone, before you do anything, two minutes of gratitude, and it could be the small things, like I'm just happy I'm waking up in the morning, I'm glad I have a roof over my head, those small things, or the music or your cat next to you, whatever it is you have a 27% more likelihood of having a good day six to eight hours later compared to if you get up and just go grab your phone, read the paper, turn the news on for three minutes. I mean that's 27% that you're putting on the table, right. So just taking those few moments, like you're doing, and take those gratitude moments and I highly encourage those of you who are tuning in right now listening to this beautiful conversation with Rebecca Johnson who, like I mentioned, she has this wonderful podcast called Love Is Not Dead, just my Husband. We'll talk about that and so much more that's still to come in our conversation Take two minutes, just try this as a challenge, make it part of your hug it out challenge. ⁣ ⁣ 14:14⁣ Start two minutes in the morning, just with the small things, and see how you feel later in the day, and it could be small. In fact, it should be small, because lessening your own gratitude because somebody else is going through something that you think is greater. It's not a comparison game, right? We all have the ability to touch, move, inspired and be touched, moved and inspired. So if it doesn't begin with in, how in the world can you show up for others, right? Yes, so that was a big lesson for you. Yes, it was, yeah. And from facing that loss and making that change and losing your husband, it wasn't that long after that that you found out that you were facing your own personal loss. ⁣ ⁣ 15:02 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Yeah. So six weeks after he had passed away, I had found out that I was having trouble with my vision and went to the eye doctor. He thought my retina was detaching, went to a specialist and he said I think there's something more. And he sent me to an ocular oncologist at Duke Eye Center. This all happened in 2018. And that's when I found out I was diagnosed with a rare eye cancer ocular melanoma. ⁣ ⁣ 15:34 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ You do have a terminal diagnosis. ⁣ ⁣ 15:37 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Yes, so my cancer is incurable and, based on the statistics of the drug, the immunotherapy that I'm taking statistically the survival rate is two to three years. But, however, there are some people that are on this drug, that were on it throughout the trial and they're now at four years. So that does. That gives me some hope. ⁣ ⁣ 16:05 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ What is your biggest concern? ⁣ ⁣ 16:07 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ My biggest concern is my son and how he is going to be able to handle the grief, because I have only had a few losses and they have absolutely been significant to me, but my son has had in such a short period of time. I mean we lost. My best friend's son was murdered, so that was his godbrother, I mean his very first friend, his best friend growing up his entire life, then my husband, which is his stepfather, who did raise him. Then after that he had a friend from school, I believe it was. He died in a car accident, then his grandfather died, then his grandmother died, then my brother, his uncle died, and then his great grandmother died. ⁣ ⁣ 17:22⁣ And now he has to think about my death as well and that's a lot of loss. And I've never seen him cry. I mean I saw him cry at my husband's funeral and I just I wonder how. I worry about how he's processing his grief, because sometimes when I talk to him about it, he does open up and he wants to talk about it, but then sometimes he will just look at me and say I don't want to talk about that. So I hope that in some way this podcast will be a way for him to come back and listen to me and my advice and just kind of learn from it that grief is going to be hard and it's going to be sad, but there's so much to still be grateful for in life and I don't want him to think that when my life is over, that just life is over in general and I want him to live and not just be alive Like. I want him to actually live and have everything he's ever wanted. ⁣ ⁣ 18:53 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Well, I imagine having a mom like you. He's learning what it means to get back up. You know, I hope so, I think so, and I imagine there are a lot of other people that are tuning in and probably are getting that message that you might never meet. So thanks for that. Thanks for sharing that part of yourself vulnerably and with unbelievable courage and a legacy. Is something that we hope we can all share and leave behind, whether it's tomorrow or 20 years from now, or 30 years from now. You know it's just leaving our mark in a positive way, in any way that we know we're touch, moving and inspiring people. So thanks for pressing record. ⁣ ⁣ 19:47 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Thank you for listening. Thank everyone for listening, because it wouldn't be a podcast without listeners. ⁣ ⁣ 19:55 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, that's true. And even with that, with that loss as well, you not only found out you had cancer, you also wound up with more loss, and that was even losing the eye itself. ⁣ ⁣ 20:10 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Yes, and back to downplaying the same thing with my eye, and I never thought about it at the time. Losing my eye was a really big deal and the cancer and the eye and everything that was going on with me was really overshadowing my grief for my husband. So that was just kind of delayed. So now I'm in survival mode and I just have to try to take care of myself. But the loss of my eye was I don't, I never thought about it in a way that losing a body part, but you grieve that too. You know I had some phantom visions sometimes, you know. ⁣ ⁣ 21:06⁣ And then also, just it was a while before I got my prosthetic and to have no eye and to wear an eye patch, or my eye doctor made me some glasses with a blackout lens which made it nicer, but it was still almost very. ⁣ ⁣ 21:28⁣ It was a lot more eye catching to someone than just an eye patch, right? So I didn't leave the house a lot. I didn't like the way that I looked. I also had a small basal cell carcinoma on the forehead that the surgeon had found and it was really a small little bump that just wasn't healing on my forehead and he took that out as well and he said it ended up being a lot larger than he thought and left me with a large scar the scar. And so for a long time I just I didn't like the way that I looked and it took me years to embrace my prosthetic eye and that it was a tough time. A lot of grief there and still, sometimes now even I have difficulty with again not wanting to speak and be more behind the mic instead of on stage and people seeing me on camera. I still get nervous sometimes that people are looking at my eye. ⁣ ⁣ 22:43 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And what's so amazing is that you at some point took the shift. I mean, and look like those inner parts of ourselves are still there. The things we've been through are there and we should never be ignoring them. But you've turned the corner on things and even wrote it to me. You said I just I'm not falling down the rabbit hole. So where was the turning point for you that you said I'm not going this route, even though some days are more challenging than others. Like you, just mentioned. ⁣ ⁣ 23:15⁣ And I have these moments where the ego steps in or the doubt steps in. Hi, welcome to being a human right. But for you, when was it like? You know what? Screw this. I'm turning this around. I want to be there for myself. I want to be there for my family. I want to be there for my family, a potential listeners who, now that you've been in this podcasting world for over a year and doing things the widows way, as you call it, like, how did all this come about? ⁣ ⁣ 23:45 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Well it was. It was quite the roller coaster, I'll tell you. The breaking point was a summer trip in Sedona. I have a friend. I go with her and her family to Sedona every year and Sedona is absolutely gorgeous. And any the vortex and the vortex, any any picture you see of Sedona, that is exactly what it looks like. That it's. It's not made up. You can take the ugliest picture of Sedona in the Red Rocks and it's still the most beautiful place. ⁣ ⁣ 24:24⁣ So here I am. I get the opportunity to go every summer with this family and experience a place that most people only dream of going. And I Wasn't having that experience. We were. We were leaving the airport restaurant one day and when you come on the back end of the Red Rocks, they're these beautiful, like they're lighter colors. They're not the deep reds, they're, they're much lighter reds and pinks and oranges and whites and they all blend together. And we were coming around and she goes isn't this the most beautiful thing you've ever seen? And I looked at her and I said I don't know what's beautiful anymore and I just busted out crying and I spent the next few days just crying, like I needed that cry. ⁣ ⁣ 25:31⁣ I didn't even cry that. I didn't cry that much when my husband died. I didn't cry that much when I was diagnosed with my cancer. I feel like I had bottled everything up for so long and it was finally coming out and I felt like I was living a lie, like every smile was forced, every laugh was fake, what people saw on the outside was not how I felt. And when I left Sedona I knew that something had to change. So I had to get some discipline. I had to force myself and I love Mel Robbins. Shout out to Mel Robbins Five, four, three, two, one. ⁣ ⁣ 26:19⁣ And you know I take her advice, advice like as a widow and a lot of people like she is very you got to make yourself, do it. No one's coming to save you. Get off your ass and just do it. And I took that advice not just as a person but as a widow and I'm like you know what, rebecca? No one's coming to save you. No one's coming to save you. You're. You're here, you're grieving and you're sad and you're depressed and you're lonely and you're living this widow saga. No one's coming to save you. No one cares that you're a widow anymore. You're the only one that cares. You're the only one hanging on to this and I just use that and I started doing things more for myself. I went back to school. I started getting out more. I said I'm going to start dating. ⁣ ⁣ 27:29⁣ I did that horribly, but but that was what you did it, girl, I did it, but you did it, but that was, that was the breaking point and I really started to embrace living, I started to travel, I started to do more things and then my brother died and then I felt like it was just all coming, like I felt myself being pulled back into that world of grief and then I then I knew I had to, I had to dig myself back out of it. It's like if you did it before, you can do it again. ⁣ ⁣ 28:17 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That's really it, right there. Like we sometimes see the the traumas that we go through, as being the only trauma and sometimes we'll connect it to something from the past, that encoding Right and we realize that we've been through this Like my mom. Do you remember the Weebel wobbles? Weebel's wobbles? They don't fall down. Yes, yes, so I have, like I have a bunch of them on my, my desk, because it's a reminder that we fall but we get back up. Right, we wobble but we get back up. ⁣ ⁣ 28:48⁣ We weebel, what we don't fall down and that's what life's about is the resiliency Right, and you but. But it takes us a moment to step back and get out of our own shit, to realize it Like we have to feel, we have to emote, we have to go through those, those moments, like I mentioned earlier. But it is really taking that deep breath and realizing how long do I want to stay in this flip in place, right Before I make this, before I realize I can get back up and I can heal while I'm getting up, right, yeah, so, with all that happening and now many losses, just physically, two people, but then your own losses and your own life and your health. ⁣ ⁣ 29:33⁣ What is your mission now with? Love is not dead, just my husband, the widow's way. Where are you looking to go with this? ⁣ ⁣ 29:43 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ You know, it wasn't until after the cancer had metastasized that I really thought about that. I mean, I was just having fun with the podcast, right, and you know the whole widow your way thing. With that, I feel like just the statement itself is more empowering for a widow than just there's no right or wrong way to grieve, right. I feel like widows need something that's specific their own. You know, just like Nike, just do it. You know widows widow your way. Like how I saw you were in the shirt, yeah. ⁣ ⁣ 30:25 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I saw you were in the shirt and I was. I was pulled into it because it just it didn't have to be a slogan of a podcast, didn't have to be anything. It's just like I'm not even. I'm not in that position and I felt a pull to it. Maybe it's just being a woman and understanding losses in different ways, but I'm like we do widow other things, other than people. Yes, right, and so I pulled. I was pulled into that statement like ah, yeah, okay, and I wasn't even sure what it meant to me in that moment, but I connected to it, rebecca. So it's powerful, I have. ⁣ ⁣ 31:03 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ It's powerful, I hope so, um, you know, for me, I have never read a grief book. Well, actually, I've read one grief book, finding Meaning, by David Kessler, Other than that, and I just read that last year. But for me, I never read it. But for me, I never did a grief workshop, I never did a widow group, I didn't reach out to any other widows. I, I, I did it my way and it turned out okay. It really did turn out okay, and so that has been the focus of my podcast Widow your Way, um, trying to break through stereotypes and what people really think of widows. And for me it turned out that my widowhood journey was nothing about my husband. It's not. Being a widow has absolutely nothing to do with your dead husband. It's all about you. You are the widow. It's called widowhood for a reason. It's your journey, it's about you. ⁣ ⁣ 32:22 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, yeah. So I want to just reiterate to folks if you're not tuning into Love is Not Dead, just my Husband with Rebecca Johnson, or just connect with her, we're going to put all your information, rebecca, in the list of notes. I want people to be able to tune in and really to find their own connection to you, because I think you're just an incredible human being and you know, when I was, when I gave you the podcast notes to fill out, you're like I don't have a freebie. I'm like, oh girl, yes, you do. Your podcast is the freebie and it doesn't always have to be the lead magnet or the download. And I know we get into this world of marketing in this, but really aren't we just people just having conversations too? And I think you're so authentic with that and I love that about you and I'm so glad we're able to have this conversation. So if this conversation touch, moves and inspires you tuning in right now, listening to HIListically Speaking speaking episode with Rebecca Johnson, you know, let us know. Share it in the ratings and reviews. ⁣ ⁣ 33:25⁣ Wherever you are tuning into this podcast, whether you're watching on YouTube or you're listening on any of the platforms we're on, which is basically them all Let us know, like let Rebecca know, and give her a shout out. Go check her out, you know. Subscribe to her podcast as well. Let's amplify the voices, let's be there for each other. That's really what this is. This, really what this podcast is about is holding space for those and, like I say a million times and my listeners know, my audience knows, every person I have on this podcast is like a masterclass. I'm learning from you just as much as you might be walking away and learning something from me, so thank you for that. ⁣ ⁣ 34:00 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Oh, absolutely. ⁣ ⁣ 34:02 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ So appreciative of you. Where I want to go next, let's? I want to have a little fun because you know, like I said, part of the healing involves humor and we were having some conversations before pressing record where we were talking about the dating getting out there in the world, the things we really need to do also for ourselves, the self love. And February yes, it's known as Love Month usually focuses around Valentine's Day, but I really want to just nail it in that it's really about the self love and you connect with that as well the things you're doing for yourself, the things that you are doing to pick yourself back up when the weeble wobbles. And what does self care mean to Rebecca? Like, how are you holding space for yourself, rebecca? ⁣ ⁣ 34:51 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ You know, honestly, right now I'm not holding any kind of space for myself other than with this cancer, other than when I feel hungry, I'm eating whatever I want, and I know a lot of people are very concerned about my health and what I'm putting into my body right now. But for me, right now, that is my self love. When I find myself hungry, I'm eating what I want and I'm in joy in it and I'm sleeping. When I'm tired, I. If I'm at work and I feel that I'm doing too much, before I used to push through and I wouldn't take a break, and so now I'm not doing that anymore. If I'm tired, I take a nap. If I want to feel like I need some kind of recharge, I'll walk outside and stand in the sun for five minutes. So those I mean wow, I said that I wasn't doing any self care, and the more that I think about it. Yeah, I am doing a little self care, but it's nothing great. Yeah, so I you know. But that goes back to almost to the gratitude. ⁣ ⁣ 36:05 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Like you think I'm not really in a state of gratitude, and then you realize the smallest things, like I just had a delicious sandwich and it was amazing, right, and I'm so grateful that I had it. Like we tend to put so much pressure on things being big and grander to be able to have purpose and meaning our lives, and it's really the small things that make the difference, right. So I ask you if you do things for self care? At first you said nothing and you just listed a bunch of things I did. I love it, yeah. What is your favorite thing that you that you like to? Uh, nashon. ⁣ ⁣ 36:39 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Um what was your. ⁣ ⁣ 36:41 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ What's the food that you think that is not good to have, so good to have. ⁣ ⁣ 36:44 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ So right now nothing tastes good, like everything sounds like it might taste good, and then I eat it and it's like uh no, now it just tastes gross, I don't want it. Um, right now my thing is potatoes Anything with potatoes, yeah. Yeah, nothing exciting, but just I'm eating potatoes. All right, it's a comfort food. ⁣ ⁣ 37:15 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah Right, and I think we get into this habit and I'm an integrative nutrition, holistic health coach and I've studied like 135, 40 dietary theories that are out there and I think it just comes down to like things in moderation. Like if we deny ourselves things that bring us joy, then we are most likely going to sabotage anyway because we are denying ourselves the things that bring us joy, but it's being witnessed to it. So I would say you can even pair that potato with a gratitude moment. I love this potato. ⁣ ⁣ 37:49 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ There you go, something to be great for. ⁣ ⁣ 37:51 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Right, yeah, so as someone who is doing some self care, you're getting out there in the world. You said, dating hasn't been going so well. Are you? Um, are you embracing it again? Are you trying it again? Cause you've shared some stuff where it's been pretty funny about your, your dating adventures. You've you've shared some things about your dating adventures that were kind of humorous. ⁣ ⁣ 38:14 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Yeah. So with Valentine's Day coming up, I was, you know, everyone's talking about Valentine's Day. Some of the other widows are, you know, talking about dating and stuff, and I'm like, do I want to do a Valentine's Day episode? Do I want to take advantage of that? And then, um, so I decided that I would do a Valentine's Day episode. Um, I was debating about it and then this song popped into my head Tina Turner, what's love got to do with it? ⁣ ⁣ 38:51⁣ And there's a very funny story I mean I think it's funny, a very funny story that I'm going to share on my next episode, but a very funny story about me and my husband and why Tina Turner is so relevant. And then I it's going to be a two part episode. So I share two relationship stories a little more in detail than what I have in the past, and the second one is going to be there's a little twist to it. It's not what you think it's going to be. So now you'll have to tune into that one too. But is this is the second one airing a week later? Yes, I mean it's it's coming after Valentine's Day Perfect Cause. ⁣ ⁣ 39:40 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ As you know, we're recording this right before Valentine's Day, so you can go back and listen to these episodes. Because that's really where I want to go here is that Valentine's Day is not just one day. Love month is not just February. Every day should be a chance to say I love myself and I have the ability to love others, right? So it doesn't matter when this is dropping. We are dropping this, as you know, in February. However, go back and listen, you know, as a reminder that it doesn't have to be Valentine's Day. ⁣ ⁣ 40:11 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ I felt like it was going to be pretty good. And then I saw Miley Cyrus win her Grammy. I didn't watch the Grammys, but I saw an epa clip where she was singing her song Flowers and yeah. And then she's like I want a Grammy, yes. But did you notice her outfit and her hair and her mannerism? She was impersonating Tina Turner. ⁣ ⁣ 40:39 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Oh, you know what? I didn't even catch that. ⁣ ⁣ 40:41 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Which solidifies that my two podcast episodes were supposed to be told. ⁣ ⁣ 40:51 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Wait a minute. Did that? Was that? Did that come out that she was Well, or is that just your interpretation? I didn't read that. I did so you felt that. Watch her the way she was moving. ⁣ ⁣ 41:05 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ those are Tina Turner's moves Her dress that she was wearing with the fringe, that's Tina Turner. Her hair, oh my gosh Big. That is Tina Turner. She was Rebecca, I didn't even get that. And what better person to inspire you? And and in that song and on that stage, I mean that is Tina Turner. And then yeah, yeah. ⁣ ⁣ 41:34 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I did not get that until I'm sitting here listening to you and rewinding, because I didn't watch the Grammys either. But I did catch that clip because in my mind I thought that was such an empowering moment for her and so authentic. Like she's singing her song and then she just breaks and goes. I finally want a Grammy. And like I felt that for her, like I felt it was like a Susan Lucci moment where she goes up for the Emmys like 19 times until she won. It was that moment where she's like I've worked so hard writing this music and finally I'm being acknowledged. Like I felt, like it was so authentic. But now add on top of that, this is a girl, a young woman that is paying tribute to somebody who has inspired her and wow, that that levels that moment up. Now I didn't even think that. Thank you for bringing an awareness to that. ⁣ ⁣ 42:24 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Yeah. ⁣ ⁣ 42:25 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Anybody out there listening. If you feel that way, too, would love to know. I think that's pretty incredible, but so it does. It makes it will make your podcast make a lot more sense. And just isn't it funny how the things just align. Yes, in that way. Yes, there's just this unbelievable alignment. Awesome, love that. Okay, my dear. So I just want to reiterate to those who are listening and tuning in, wherever you're tuning in, rebecca Johnson, please give her podcast I know it's not dead, just my husband a listen, tune in. I know there's numerous ways to get in touch with you and you share that. We're going to put that in the podcast notes, but I want to play a little game with you. Ooh, got a moment. ⁣ ⁣ 43:02⁣ Yes, I love a good game, so I do this at the end of every podcast and sometimes I wonder if I should do it at the beginning, because it really kind of breaks people up. It's pretty funny, but I do this like word association game, where I pick words from the conversation we're having and I want you to come back with the first word that comes to mind. It's basically seeing how Rebecca's brain is working. ⁣ ⁣ 43:25 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Wow, what if it's so do? Do I have a default word if I, if I can't come up with a word, Like a safety word. ⁣ ⁣ 43:32 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Oh, yeah, I think I need that's a whole different kind of podcast. That's a safe word. Okay, that's Rebecca a couple of years into dating, and then we can get into that. ⁣ ⁣ 43:46 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Oh my goodness, it's just safe word, yeah. ⁣ ⁣ 43:49 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ No, this is just me throwing out a word, or maybe two, depending, okay, and I just want you to come back Like, just don't think too hard about it. This is Rebecca's brain, sharing the word that she associates with the word I throw out at you. Okay, just take a deep breath, maybe do a little havening, because you learned how to do that, and the first word I'm going to throw out is vision Board Word Grief Loss Podcast Me, yeah, girl Widow. ⁣ ⁣ 44:32 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Your way. ⁣ ⁣ 44:34 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Nice Well played on the branding Cancer Live Gratitude. ⁣ ⁣ 44:47 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Always. ⁣ ⁣ 44:50 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Love. ⁣ ⁣ 44:51 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Is not dead. ⁣ ⁣ 44:54 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, it's not. It never is. Sometimes it goes dormant for a moment, but it's still there, right? Yeah, we just have to rediscover ourselves. Really is what it's all about. That's a good takeaway. I appreciate that I've learned a lot from you and I'm really, really elated to share this space with you. It's really been a good conversation and I hope to have more, because you open my eyes to some things you know. And widowing your way doesn't necessarily mean you've lost a partner or a spouse. There are many levels of grief and loss, right, and being able to see that nobody's going to save you. We really are on this. We're walking each other home, as I like to say, but truly the journey is ours. ⁣ ⁣ 45:46 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Yes. ⁣ ⁣ 45:47 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ You know, yeah, so if you were to have some final words with HILlistically Speaking audience, what would it be? ⁣ ⁣ 45:58 - Rebecca Johnson (Guest)⁣ Embrace grief and loss, not grief after loss, and just know that it's possible to live happily even after. ⁣ ⁣ 46:15 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, happily, even after that's great Thanks for that. Thank you, okay, sunshine, this is going to be the easiest decision you ever have to make. Rebecca Johnson opened up so vulnerably, so beautifully, so courageously during this conversation that I want you to give her some love. Check out her podcast Love is Not Dead Just my Husband. And then take it one step further. Connect with her on social media, find out more about the widow's way and just have a conversation with her. She's so open and so friendly and so loving that I think you're going to really vibe with her. ⁣ ⁣ 46:53⁣ I put all the links to connect with Rebecca and her podcast in the listen notes of this episode. Listen if you enjoyed this. If this episode touched, moved and inspired you in any way, let us know here at HIListically Speaking, you know, drop a rating and a review on any podcast platform, wherever you're tuning in, or even on YouTube, and just let us know how we're doing, because I read everything and I love to hear from you and you will hear from me. And if you are having a struggle in the area of grief, if you are struggling in any area that is really a trauma in your life, don't forget that there is support, there are tools, there are people that are there to help you through, and if you want to learn more about how havening can be part of that, drop me a line. I put a link in the podcast notes how you can connect with me to learn how to hug it out and live with humor and understanding and gratitude in your every day. ⁣ ⁣ 47:46⁣ HIListically Speaking is edited by Two Market Media, with music by Lipone  Redding, and listened to by you. So thank you for that. Every day, and remember, you have the ability to choose to choose to change your thoughts, to change your day and to start every day as a day one, because I believe in you, I love you and I will see you next week. ⁣

When the bond between a mother and daughter fractures, the emotional fallout can resonate through every aspect of life. Hilary Russo guides this raw and enlightening conversation with celebrated family therapist Khara Croswaite Brindle, author of "Understanding Ruptured Mother-Daughter Relationships,” and peels back the layers of this deeply personal issue. ⁣ ⁣ During this intimate conversation, Hilary and Khara unravel the tangled reasons behind daughters distancing themselves from their mothers, from toxic dynamics to ancestral traumas. Addressing the societal stigmas that often accompany the decision to step back, we shed light on the importance of setting boundaries for emotional health, and how the decision to create distance is rarely taken lightly, but often a necessary step in preserving one's well-being.⁣ ⁣ Touched, moved, or inspired by this conversation? Consider sharing it with someone you know and leave a rating/review wherever you are tuning in. ⁣ ⁣ Connect with Khara and grab a copy of her books:⁣ https://www.estrangementenergycycle.com/⁣ https://www.facebook.com/croswaitecounselingpllc⁣ https://www.linkedin.com/in/kharacroswaite/⁣ https://www.instagram.com/kharacroswaite/⁣ ⁣ Connect with Hilary:⁣ https://www.instagram.com/hilaryrusso⁣ ⁣https://www.youtube.com/hilaryrusso⁣ https://www.facebook.com/hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://twitter.com/HilaryRusso⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣ ⁣Music by Lipbone Redding https://lipbone.com/⁣ ⁣ ⁣ --------- EPISODE CHAPTERS WITH SHORT KEY POINTS ---------⁣ ⁣ (0:00:00) - The Rise of Mother-Daughter Estrangement⁣ Therapy, abuse, trauma, and generational trauma influence the rising trend of estrangement in mother-daughter relationships.⁣ ⁣ (0:04:32) - Understanding and Navigating Family Estrangement⁣ Family estrangement's multigenerational impact, forms of distance, setting boundaries, therapy for affected family members, maintaining emotional well-being.⁣ ⁣ (0:13:54) - Understanding the Estrangement Energy Cycle⁣ The emotional journey of adult daughters dealing with ruptured mother-daughter relationships and how educators can support children experiencing family estrangement.⁣ ⁣ (0:22:16) - Healing Estranged Mother-Daughter Relationships⁣ Nature's complexities of mother-daughter estrangement, generational trauma, and attachment styles, and the value of therapy and coaching for healing.⁣ ⁣ (0:28:09) - Understanding Mother-Daughter Estrangement and Healing⁣ Healing and reconciliation between estranged mothers and daughters, with emphasis on individual journeys and the importance of mutual effort.⁣ ⁣ (0:36:16) - Understanding and Healing Mother-Daughter Estrangement⁣ Healing estranged mother-daughter relationships, prioritizing mental health, and using self-regulation tools like Havening for self-empowerment.⁣ ⁣ ⁣ --------- EPISODE TRANSCRIPT ---------⁣ ⁣0:00:00 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ I think a lot of people are now talking about it. I think it's always been happening, but maybe we're seeing an uptick because people have are going to therapy, they have language for it. Now they're looking at this from the lens of abuse and trauma and that's justifying some of the rupture, the distance between parents and their children. ⁣ ⁣ 0:00:18 - Hilary Russo⁣ One in 12. One in 12 people my friends are estranged from a family member and it's a choice that can be very challenging for many. But when you do the inner work, when you create the space for healthier relationships and for a better understanding of self, it really can pave the way for a new you. And when it comes to mother and daughter estrangement especially where there's been possibly repeated trauma, discomfort, pain, misunderstanding even a daughter's choice to cut her ties from her mother can come with so much emotion and still much pain in the healing process. ⁣ ⁣ Khara Crosswaight Brindle is a licensed therapist who wrote the book about this very thing understanding ruptured mother-daughter relationships, guiding the adult daughter's healing journey through the estrangement energy cycle. And I have to say, Khara, this is such an important topic because of the clients that I see. There's so much parental child estrangement that I've been seeing more so than probably years ago. I feel like people are coming into their own and I'm really happy you're here to talk about this topic because it is a important one and I know you specifically focus on the mother-daughter in this book specifically, but this is happening with many relationships. So thank you for being here, thank you for sharing your voice and your wisdom, thank you, Hilary. ⁣ ⁣ 0:01:48 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Yeah, I'm excited to talk about it. It's on the rise, so let's talk about it. ⁣ ⁣ 0:01:53 - Hilary Russo⁣ So let us talk about that when we say it's on the rise and we hear numbers like one in 12, one in 12 seems like a pretty big number when you think about in the grand scheme of things, that that could potentially be a real issue. I don't know. When I growing up, you just respected your parents. You took whatever came at you. In a way, you didn't talk back, and I think we're seeing more people now using words like narcissism, parental narcissism it's not just within intimate relationship and gaslighting and manipulation and I'm curious, these terms tend to be buzzwords now too, right? So how do we define the difference between that and really know that? What's my responsibility in all this, and am I in a position where I'm in a toxic relationship that does need severed ties? ⁣ ⁣ 0:02:52 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Yeah, I mean I think this is one of the chapters of the book we go through a bunch of assumptions of estrangement and one of them is that therapists are pushing for clients to stop talking to their parents, especially because we have a generation, or now two generations, that are coming into therapy doing their own work and now have a language for what happened right of trauma, abuse, neglect, something happening in that family relationship that led to that rupture. ⁣ ⁣ And although it's assumptions because you and I as mental health professionals can say like we're not here to champion estrangement, like we're here to say what's best for the client and like helping them discover for themselves what's best I tackled that assumption as well as like this toxic word and it's funny you named it, you said the word toxic, so I think people are overusing that word, but when it comes to estrangement, maybe it's just now a simple, a simplification for what's happened, like I don't want to go into detail about how painful this estrangement was for my parent, but if I say the word toxic, people will respect that and just look it up from like boundaries, and so I think a lot of people are now talking about it. I think it's always been happening, but maybe we're seeing an uptick because people have are going to therapy, they have language for it. Now they're looking at this from the lens of abuse and trauma and that's justifying some of the rupture, the distance between parents and their children. ⁣ ⁣ 0:04:09 - Hilary Russo⁣ And there's some other words that we hear a lot as of late, and it's ancestral trauma, generational trauma and going back to the root of your ancestry, and how do you avoid bringing that into this present generation and generations going forward? I've been hearing that a lot and that's something I think I've even battled. I'm like I don't want to bring that into the next generation. ⁣ ⁣ 0:04:35 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ How do? ⁣ ⁣ 0:04:35 - Hilary Russo⁣ I stop the trauma right here. ⁣ ⁣ 0:04:38 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Absolutely. I'm like, yeah, so in my personal experience, I'm married into a family that has four generations of estrangement and what I noticed because I'm a mental health professional I can see it. I'm not in it. I'm kind of behind it looking at what's going on and it's like now it's been modeled. Now it's modeled that if I have a significant conflict with you I can just cut ties. That's what's been said, is fine, is acceptable in this family, even though there's lots of hardship and lots of grief and loss behind the scenes. ⁣ ⁣ They're modeling for the youngest generation, which I'm now a parent of a two-year-old. So I'm very thoughtful to this. I'm like what are we telling that youngest generation about? If it's a conflict that doesn't feel solvable, resolvable, do we just walk away? Do we just say I'm done talking to you, stay out of my life, and so it's not that simple. But I think a lot of people on the outside are just seeing estrangement as this dynamic of I'm mad at you, so I'm not going to talk to you, when this look goes so much deeper as to what's truly going on, from that cellular trauma level to generations, to modeling, to here's neglect and abuse that was happening for that person. ⁣ ⁣ 0:05:41 - Hilary Russo⁣ Yeah, and the other thing about that is that there's the fine line where, as mental health professionals, our dedication and our loyalty is really to the client or the patient right, but not to tell them what to do, but help them find what works best for them right. It's never telling them, it's never healing them. It's giving them the tools to come to those decisions themselves right. ⁣ ⁣ Exactly. But the part of that is some people don't want that person in other lives, and I've seen that a lot. It's like finding that healthy boundary with that person, whereas is there a level of estrangement where it's not they're totally out of your life, but you have healthy boundaries so that they're still in your life. You love this person. It's obviously a tie, but how do you do so in a way that, where it's not impacting your emotional well-being and you can still have someone of a healthy relationship, even at a distance? ⁣ ⁣ 0:06:40 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Yeah, and so you're kind of speaking to. We talk about in the book. We talk about physical estrangement versus emotional estrangement. So physical estrangement is what people's heads go to, their minds go to we're not speaking, I've moved away, you don't know anything about my life, we're never seeing each other at holidays or never at family gatherings. It's kind of like a hard stop, like very dramatic sense of there's grief and loss. This feels like a death when we stop talking to that person. Then there's this emotional estrangement, which is that slow burn of like I'm going to start kind of distancing myself, like when I restrict how long I'm talking to you on the phone, how often I call you, how long I stay at that family event. So it creates some of those boundaries you're naming Hillary with. Like I want some distance, but I'm still connected to them, I'm still talking to them. I'm just creating some boundaries around what that looks like. ⁣ ⁣ 0:07:28 - Hilary Russo⁣ And then you have the other side of it, like other family members who witness that, and I've been in a position where I've had family members who have been estranged or still are, and you so want everybody to get along, you so want to step in and be like, oh gosh, what can I do to help? Even though it's not your place, how do you deal with being the family member who's on the outside looking in and they're the one that wants the piece within everyone? Because I'm sure someone can benefit from this book and pick it up and read it, because maybe there is an estrangement between family members that they love both both of those people. ⁣ ⁣ 0:08:07 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Oh, yeah, yeah. And so we have a section in the book that talks about this ripple effect on families and specifically for siblings. This was inspired by my spouse, who's talking to all four of those generations and the family, but none of them are talking, so he's very much the person saying what you've just said. I want everyone to get along, I want to see all of you, I want us in a room together. I miss us as a family, right? So that's very heartfelt For those siblings or loved ones. ⁣ ⁣ Some of the strategies are know that this is your agenda, this is your desire, this is your wish, your want of the family. Do you go to your own therapy to process the sadness that you have that your family has been fractured in this way? Is it about not taking sides, not bad mouthing one loved one to the other as you're like oh, I'm siding with mom or I'm siding with sister and this mother daughter example of estrangement. But some other tips of like, it's not up to you to fix it, it's not up for you to convince them to reconcile. Actually, it'll backfire if you do. ⁣ ⁣ If you're like just get along, just talk to each other. That creates more damage. But, more importantly, there's this alliance that we have to have, or we feel like we have to have, and I have to choose mom or sister. I cannot be connected to both. And that is where I think doing their own individual therapy is important, because they're feeling caught between and they love both people and they want both people in their lives, but they feel like they can't speak about that person. I can't mention mom to sister and I can't mention sister to mom, and it's just a huge mental energy for them to navigate estrangement this way. ⁣ ⁣ 0:09:36 - Hilary Russo⁣ Yeah, and it can cause a lot of draining of that energy too. You know you don't want to be put in the middle. You have your own relationship that you need to nurture. You might have your own emotional boundaries or healthy boundaries that you need to set with that person as well, or maybe it's even more than one person, because even like you mentioned your husband having an estrangement from a number of people or has a family that has multiple levels of estrangement. You know being able to support yourself is the most important thing. But you know you also mentioned that there is the trickle down and the ripple effect, especially when it comes to children. Like how do you explain that to a child? Like where's grandma, where's grandpa? Why don't we see them? But we see the other grandparents all the time. We're seeing more of that too. ⁣ ⁣ 0:10:21 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Oh yeah, and children are curious Like that's naturally, developmentally appropriate of like where's my grandparent? Here's a social representation of families. My family doesn't look like this. Why is that? So I took this first book that we're talking about and I actually made a children's book in the last two weeks. I actually launched last week. Oh, that's great. ⁣ ⁣ 0:10:41 - Hilary Russo⁣ Can we get the name of that? ⁣ ⁣ 0:10:42 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Yeah, it's called Petty Mickey's Family Tree, talking to kids about a strange one. ⁣ ⁣ And so it's a cute little elementary age child book. That's the audience, it's elementary age children and their parents, and it looks at her coming home saying, hey, I have this assignment, this family tree I'm supposed to put together. I'm having some anxiety, I'm having some worry that my tree looks different than the other kids at school and it really just creates modeling of what it looks like for a family member this case of parent to talk to their child and say, like, what's age appropriate? How do I regulate myself to tell my kid just enough information for them to understand what's going on, without parentifying them, without stressing them out? ⁣ ⁣ So I actually have like five tips in the back of that book for parents of like I want you to breathe, I want you to be curious about what the question they have. You know, these young children of like four or five year olds are like hey, do they look like me? That might be their only question, versus a word panicking that I have to explain. Hey, this is what my parent did for me to not talk to them. So just talking about what's developmentally appropriate and discussing this arrangement because kids do have questions and this book, hopefully, is going to help that conversation. ⁣ ⁣ 0:11:50 - Hilary Russo⁣ I love that you mentioned that. I love that you're bringing up like social, emotional learning tools that children can implement. And that's something that I've been trying to work with the kids, more especially with the havening techniques, which gives them a way to self-regulate for self-love, self-care and just find that calm and the chaos you know when the brain is just not really understanding what's going on, especially at that younger age. Right, but giving them ways to self-regulate and you mentioned that words regulate what other things can they do? You mentioned breathing. ⁣ ⁣ 0:12:25 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Yeah, I think even just like talking about this ahead of time. So like when parents pick up this book or hear this podcast, can they be like? What would I say if my kid asked why I don't talk to grandma or to uncle or to whoever it is in the family? So just that like preparation of here's what I would say, so it doesn't feel like it's coming from emotion, it's coming from like this grounded. I know what I want to say to my kid and I'm not going to show them that this hurts. I'm going to be regulated so I don't look sad or angry or upset, because kids can feel that right, so we can feel our own stuff, show up and so if we can take a book or think about this ahead of time, then we can feel more prepared to show up neutrally with our kids and then be really like slow and saying what do you really want to know? ⁣ ⁣ You know elementary age kids might have one simple question, versus a teenager might be like tell me more, like I want to know what really happened with grandma. So some of those tips are about just like being present for the question. Regulate yourself to breathe, grounding, giving them eye contact, validating their emotions, which is important for kids of like you might feel confused by what I just shared. What other questions do you have? That's another tip of encouraging future questions. They might just be like this was enough for now, but I might have a question for you as my parent six months from now about grandma. So it's not usually a one and done conversation and their parents can look at this. These characters go through this little plot line of the children's book or just look at the back of the book for those five tips. I'm hoping they'll feel more prepared. ⁣ ⁣ 0:13:54 - Hilary Russo⁣ And this can also be for teachers as well, because something that I was talking with a mutual trauma informed practitioner and also an educator who works with kids about the castle system, and then you know what? What can we do to understand a child's body language and their behavior? That might be changing the in the in the classroom. Educators, teachers, also need to be familiar with this. So I'm sure this book, the child book especially, can be very helpful for teachers as well to understand what's going on at home with with the little ones you know. ⁣ ⁣ 0:14:29 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Absolutely, and obviously the child therapists are just like eating it up. They want this in our library of, like, let's do some bibliotherapy, let's talk about this. Is this, is this your family? Like talking to me about your family tree? So I just I'm really hopeful that it's going to fill this gap, because I didn't see any literature out there for kids, and parents are desperate to say how do I not harm them further? How do I not put my stuff on them? How do I keep myself in check while answering their question, and I think this book is a part of that. ⁣ ⁣ 0:14:56 - Hilary Russo⁣ So let's mention the two books that you have that we're talking about. The first one is Understanding Ruptured Mother-Daughter Relationships Guiding the Adult Daughter's Healing Journey through the Estrangement Energy Cycle. I want to talk about that real quick. And then the other book mentioned the title again so we can let folks know. ⁣ ⁣ 0:15:12 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Yeah, it's called Petty McGee's Family Tree. Talking to Kids about Family Estrangement. ⁣ ⁣ 0:15:17 - Hilary Russo⁣ Wonderful. We're going to put links to both of those in the list of notes of this podcast episode and if you are touched, moved and inspired by this in any way, if you are enjoying this conversation um HIListically Speaking with Khara Croswaite Brindle, please let us know, drop us a line, let us know how we can support you more on this journey. But let us get into the nitty-gritty about the Estrangement Energy Cycle. What does that mean? Can you share? ⁣ ⁣ 0:15:41 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ that, yeah. So the key word here is energy. Like we've already alluded to, just the thought of estranging from a family member is emotional. It takes energy. A lot of these women are coming into therapy trying to figure out what their next move is, and so the energy word is really speaking to. ⁣ ⁣ This might be pre-contemplative, this might be I'm preparing for the worst, and so I'm going through this cycle in my mind, or it could be I'm literally going through these eight stages as I figure out what's happening with mom. Um, so, although the eight stages don't have any particular order, I tend to start talking about it from this awareness of what if I have a realization, as an adult daughter, that this was abusive? Once I have that realization, I can't unsee it right as a woman, and so does that then catapult me into stage two, which is about questioning what do I want to do with this information? Do I want to talk to mom about it? Do I want to broach this with her, bring it up? Do I want to just focus on the relationship now or our future relationship? So if they decide to talk to mom, which a lot of these women feel compelled to do from a place of, I want acknowledgement, I want an apology, I want compassion, I want healing. They might say let's go to mom and talk about it. Worst case scenario depending on how mom responds to this conversation, there could be immense healing that happens of you're right, I made mistakes, I'm so sorry that happened to you, I want to do better, I love you. That'll be the best scenario for going to mom saying, hey, I have this awareness now. Worst case scenario mom gets defensive, mom gets angry, mom starts name calling, mom starts pointing fingers, which unfortunately, a lot of these women then came into my therapy practice devastated because they're like, on top of realizing that this was abusive or traumatic, my parent just minimized my experience and so that leads to that relationship rupture right when it's like I don't know if I can do this with mom anymore. ⁣ ⁣ If they feel like they want to break that pattern, they might consider a strange man, whether it's physical or emotional strange man. Now I'm like I can't talk to mom. I have to have some control over what's happening in my life, and so it might mean mom's not in it Standably. If we choose a strange one, we go into a grief and loss response. The literature, the research says that it feels like a death because it I mean it has that same emotional pull of like I'm not talking to you, it's like you're not part of my life. Might as well feel like you're dead to me. So for a lot of those women they're coming into therapy at that stage too of like this is devastating, I'm depressed and anxious, I'm in grief. Breathe it From there. ⁣ ⁣ They have to start kind of questioning what their identity is Like. What is my self worth without mom? So now is it I have different interests when mom's not weighing in on what I want to do with my life. If mom was maybe overbearing, do I feel like I'm just figuring it out? Who am I without her? What kind of woman am I? What kind of mother am I if I'm a mother, if that's applicable. ⁣ ⁣ And then they go into the deeper work, which is, as a therapist, my favorite, because now they're looking at boundaries, other relationships, attachment styles, what's it look like with romantic partners Now that they have this awareness of what's going on with mom? And then, last but not least, is redefining their self worth. So who am I? But, more importantly, where am I headed from here If mom's not a part of my life? Or not reconciling. How do I navigate milestones, holidays, family events you know it's not a joyful thing for these women. It's usually still quite painful, different points of their life where mom should be present and isn't right. So think of like getting married, having a child. Mom is usually a part of that if it's a healthy relationship. So at no point in this cycle is there like hearts and flowers happening for this woman. But maybe she's starting to feel more empowered by the end of I know where I am, I know where I'm headed, even if it's not with mom in my life. So those are kind of the quick overview of those eight stages in the book. ⁣ ⁣ 0:19:31 - Hilary Russo⁣ It's beautiful. It's beautiful to be able to find yourself in that journey. I mean, you're going to go through, like you said, the stages of grief, but you also are becoming more empowered that for a long time, that daughter could be feeling that everything's her fault you know, or she makes an attempt to reach out and she gets, like you said, she gets very disappointed. She gets disappointment from a defensive parent or mother in this case, right. ⁣ ⁣ And then how do you go from there, like you become vulnerable and take that courageous step to reach out? But also, what's responsibility has the daughter had in all this? You know this is not just to put blame on the mother right, it's also what was my responsibility in this. But if a daughter has reached out and has made an attempt and says I'm willing to see the other side, and then all you get back is the upset from the mother, her side not seeing anything, like you said, where do you go from there? ⁣ ⁣ 0:20:35 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Yeah, and I mean a lot of these women. What I appreciated about what I'm hearing from people who've read it so far is I put in nine women's stories and we like continue to kind of see their journey on all eight stages. All nine of these women, some of them reconcile, some of them have permanent estrangement from significant abuse and neglect. But I tried to capture, like here are all different types of women that I've worked with over the years that now embody these stages and how emotional each of them are. And so I call out the people pleasing, I call out the perfectionists, I call out the did I do enough? ⁣ ⁣ Because of course the adult daughter is thinking that at some stage she is asking herself did I do enough? Did I fight enough for this relationship with mom? Should I have done better? Is there a way I could have won her over? Do I deserve unconditional love? Right, I'm like a real deep into the like emotion of it. So I try to name all of that as, like for these women. There's so much to unpack there. It's not just I got to one stage, it's what am I thinking and feeling at each of those stages? And those stories embody that. ⁣ ⁣ 0:21:37 - Hilary Russo⁣ And then you have to think about leader in life, when the mother might need to have a caregiver. Like, how do you abandon that parent who has hurt you in some way? Do you come back full circle and say this person's in the last part of their lives? But I also need to have these healthy boundaries so that I'm not impacted in a negative way while I'm trying to be supportive and of service to this person who is needing support. You know I hear that a lot as well. ⁣ ⁣ 0:22:08 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Oh, yeah, there's this pressure to reconcile. You know, there's the societal message of you're going to regret this. What if they die suddenly? Right? So I have a whole section in the book of, like community members, what we can say and what we shouldn't say. What is actually more hurtful to this traumatic experience of estrangement for this adult daughter? Because, again, an assumption is that this was easy for her, this was impulsive for her, when really it's like months or years of the process. ⁣ ⁣ I have one client that inspired one of these characters in the book that even now, 10 years into her work, she continues every year to question should I reach out to mom this year? Should I talk to mom this year? There's significant trauma there that mom will not own at all, and so it's fascinating how human this is right To say. Am I going to have regrets? Am I going to be sad if I get a call that mom has died? If mom's, you know, going into needing care, how do I show up for her? Should I show up for her? There's so much there and obviously each woman's story is unique as to what they decide. But, yeah, society is definitely saying family first. You're going to regret this, right. So I really try and talk about what we could say differently than that. ⁣ ⁣ 0:23:12 - Hilary Russo⁣ Yeah, being able to support yourself and know how to nurture yourself in that moment and not find yourself in a place where you're oh, I don't know. I mean, like I said earlier, the gaslighting, the manipulation, any kind of toxicity that might come with words, because suddenly you go back to the inner child, suddenly you can be a five year old, hearing words from that parent and you feel it like you did. If you ever witnessed that before as a child. Speaking of children, do you find that there are some women that have made a choice not to have children because they were scared to have the kind of relationships that they witnessed from generations in the past, like if a mother and a daughter or a grandmother and a mother are not communicating or a sister is not communicating generation before you, suddenly you feel like, well, I'm going to just wind up having the same thing, so I'm not having kids, I'm not entering, I'm not bringing anything into this world, because this trauma is just generational. ⁣ ⁣ 0:24:15 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Yeah, oh, absolutely. I mean, we actually tackle that in the book as well as, like, one of the beliefs is what if I'm broken? But what if I pass this on to my kid? What if I become my mother, for better or worse? Right In this lens of worse, I think that's such a natural thought. And then I actually, when I started writing this book, I just give birth to my daughter, and so I was very aware that I was writing about attachment and trauma and healing, as I was also trying to build healthy attachment with my infant daughter. And so many people worry about, you know, especially if they're like, tracking all these things in the family tree. I think of even just medical conditions and mental health conditions of like, oh, am I going to bring that into my child's life? Yeah, it's causing a lot of fear for people of like, what if this gets recreated again? What if this estrangement is possible in another generation? That's valid. ⁣ ⁣ 0:25:04 - Hilary Russo⁣ Do you talk specifically about attachment styles in the book? ⁣ ⁣ 0:25:07 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ I do, yep, I talk about the secure, anxious avoidant, disorganized, how that shows up from childhood into adulthood. Absolutely yeah, can't help myself. ⁣ ⁣ 0:25:16 - Hilary Russo⁣ That's definitely an area you're yeah, no, I get it and it's so interesting, but I think we're seeing more people that are diving into not self therapy, because obviously we need support, especially when we're dealing. We need support especially when we're dealing with trauma. Right, never do trauma work on your own. It's good to have somebody on the outside, like a licensed therapist or somebody in the field, that can support you in that area, to help you get a different perspective on things. But I do find that more people are open to learning new things, just so there's an awareness, so that when they're meeting with their therapist or their practitioner, they have a much more, they're much more aware of what is being shared with them, rather than just sitting across from your therapist or practitioner. And this is how it is right, right? ⁣ ⁣ I think, we're becoming our own healthcare advocates. What I'm saying, yeah absolutely, I mean. ⁣ ⁣ 0:26:13 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ I think that's why, when people are like who's this book for, I say it's for the adult daughters and it's for the clinicians that serve them, Because an adult daughter might pick up this book and say this is my experience. I feel seen by the cycle or some aspect of the book. And then there's 24 tools throughout the book that are things they could do on their own, but also I encourage them to do with their clinician to say am I doing a particular exercise? I call them therapeutic tools, but there are things I would have done with a client in the room to say does this help you in your process? Does this move you from one stage to the next? So those tools are something that those adult daughters could read, do on their own or bring into a supportive environment, whether that's a coach, a therapist, a mentor or a family member, depending on what feels appropriate. ⁣ ⁣ 0:26:57 - Hilary Russo⁣ And I think we're also seeing that as well. We're seeing more people reaching out and getting coaching, because sometimes it's just like having a sister or a brother or a friend that's there to help you, that is able to see things from the outside, looking in. That isn't personally connected. There's just so much you can lay this on a family member, especially when you might be sitting there complaining to your real sister or your brother or an aunt or somebody about a family member that they already have a connection with and they have a completely different kind of relationship with. That's not helpful to any party. ⁣ ⁣ 0:27:32 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Yeah, that bias of like oh I can't be neutral for you, I have my own thoughts. Yeah, this is why they go to someone outside the family. That's pretty typical. ⁣ ⁣ 0:27:40 - Hilary Russo⁣ Yeah. So let's mention the book again. It's Understanding Ruptured Mother-Daughter Relationships, Guiding the Adult Daughter's Healing Journey through the Estrangement Energy Cycle. And Khara also has another book that is written to support the child and the parent and the teacher. We're going to put both of those in the links to this podcast. But I have a question for you Do you find that there might be mothers that would be open to reading this book? ⁣ ⁣ 0:28:09 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ I hope so. I mean, I think there are lots of books out there for parents. When I was doing the research on this, getting this book up and running, I found so many books for parents that really spoke to their the will-dermant, their pain, their anger, their outrage that this was happening, which has its value right. They need to feel seen and supported as well. I feel like the mother who's going to pick up this book is someone who's I'm curious to heal. I want to reconcile, I want to work on myself. I want to understand my daughter's perspective. This book might help them with that because it's really written from the eyes of the adult daughter. So if they're feeling a disconnect where they don't understand why adult daughter has made this choice, this could be enlightening, I would hope. ⁣ ⁣ 0:28:49 - Hilary Russo⁣ And maybe pave the way for a new relationship. ⁣ ⁣ 0:28:53 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Absolutely. ⁣ ⁣ 0:28:53 - Hilary Russo⁣ Or just an evolved relationship. You know it's lovely when we were able to see that. I want to play a quick game with you. Or if there's anything else you want to add. Let me just stop there and say is there anything else about the book you'd like to add, or anything about the Estrangement Energy Cycle? I want to give you the space to share there. ⁣ ⁣ 0:29:10 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Yeah. So one other thing to highlight real quick is that we have some morning signs for both mothers and daughters. So off the top of my head it was things like you know, on the daughter side, a lack of boundaries, resentment brewing, that kind of language was in her checklist as adult daughter and then for the mother checklist it was things like are you steamrolling over those boundaries? Are you calling when she said not to call? Are you making demands? Are you feeling like there's friction? Are you getting feedback from the daughter that she's not happy with the relationship? ⁣ ⁣ So try to itemize a couple of things that both daughters and mothers could look at and say, hmm, is that true for us? Like, is that something in our life right now? Is that in the relationship right now? Is this an opportunity to discuss and heal and grow? Or is it like a ooh, that's me and I need to go do some work around that professionally with a therapist or coach or mentor or whoever? So by no means is it. You have to have one of them and you're in dire straits. It's more like the more you have on this checklist, the more you probably want to sit and think about what do I want to do with this information? Does it catapult me into a growth place of wanting to heal and change? ⁣ ⁣ 0:30:24 - Hilary Russo⁣ And sometimes it might just be that the relationship needs to be on that level of some, some estrangement. Maybe you're not as close to that person and that's okay too. I think that's something I really want to put out. There is that if you come to a decision especially after reading this book, which I'm very excited to get the copy in my hand when you're able to make that decision and know that you have the tools that helped you make that decision, and if that choice is that I really need to have some safe boundaries, but I'm still open to possibly the physical strange or the emotional estrangement, but the physical I don't want to not have this person in my life. ⁣ ⁣ Whatever you choose to do if it's good for you is the right choice because it's self-first. You have to live your life before anybody else's. So everybody's journey is going to be different and I want to make sure we put that out there to those who are listening, to those who might be watching that your journey is your own. What you choose with the tools that you have is the right choice, as long as it's not hurting you or anybody else. You choose to choose and you know what. You can also make a different choice. If you decide down the line, I'm ready now Be open to that as well. ⁣ ⁣ I imagine you agree with that? Yeah? ⁣ ⁣ 0:31:52 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Oh yeah, I'm just sitting here thinking about their seasons of our life right, yeah, or there's a season of independence, which is why a lot of our 20-something year olds are thinking about a strange thing, because it almost feels in alignment with independence I'm out of a nest, I'm doing my own thing. You know, the angry teenage part is like don't tell me what to do. That's what I tell my clients. We all have that angry teenage part of stubbornness, like don't tell me what to do. But then maybe I just I realize I'm going to be a mother. Maybe I'm pregnant and I'm like, wow, I really want my mom in my life. How can I have her in my life in a way that's healthy and supportive at that stage or that season of my life? Maybe I'm getting older and she's getting older, and so I think the bright spot for folks who are like man, we're in a strange moment, or one of those one in 12 people. ⁣ ⁣ There is research saying that you know, about 80% of these women are reconciling with their mothers. Obviously, we can't speak to like how long that took or what happened to make that possible, but if 80% plus percent of these women are reconciling with their mothers, there is hope that the relationship can change, that the season can change, that most of us in the mental health space are going to say we've got to work on it together. This is where, like family therapy or estrangement specialist is going to come into play, because it's complex and so it might not be as simple as just saying I owe you an apology. It might be we're doing some deep work here to have a healthier relationship, so don't feel like you have to do it on your own. I think that's what I'm saying. ⁣ ⁣ 0:33:12 - Hilary Russo⁣ Well, that's the other thing. Well, both parties, or any parties involved, have to do their own healing work and growth work. It's very hard to be able to create a space where the two parties are going to come together, when only one party is willing to do the work and the other might be saying well, everything's your fault, you're the one that needs therapy. So think about those things as well. You can only do so much. It is still teamwork. ⁣ ⁣ There's still a relationship to consider and a relationship takes more than one person, except the one with yourself. That's the most important one to work on. So, with that being said, I have really enjoyed this conversation. This is so great. I cannot wait to get that book in my hands. ⁣ ⁣ You booked this so fast that I haven't gotten the book yet. I'm like I reached out to your publicist. I'm like slam me the book and I want to end with just doing a quick game with you that I do with my guests on the show. I've been writing down some words that are things you've said during this conversation and I want you to come back with the first word that comes to mind. Let's see how Tara's brain is working, oh no. ⁣ ⁣ Sometimes I think I should do this at the beginning of the podcast but then I don't have words to use. All right, you ready, I'm ready, okay, alliance. ⁣ ⁣ 0:34:37 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Relationships Toxic Parenting. ⁣ ⁣ 0:34:41 - Hilary Russo⁣ Estrangement, daughter, children, lovable Valderies, therapy, therapy, that's my word. Come back to that chair. ⁣ ⁣ 0:34:59 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Champion. ⁣ ⁣ 0:35:01 - Hilary Russo⁣ And I have to put my glasses on for this last one, because I can't read my own handwriting. Oh, I was trying to write down the name of the character in your book. ⁣ ⁣ 0:35:09 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ The Children's Book that name, yeah, so Penny McGee's Family Tree Penny McGee. ⁣ ⁣ 0:35:15 - Hilary Russo⁣ Penny McGee. It's Penny Penny McGee, so what would you? It's two words I'm throwing out at you, but what would you say about? ⁣ ⁣ 0:35:21 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ that Vulnerability. ⁣ ⁣ 0:35:27 - Hilary Russo⁣ And isn't that? That's a great way to end this, because starting as a child, understanding these things makes you a more well-rounded adult and, as we've heard from Brittany Brown, vulnerability is courage. ⁣ ⁣ 0:35:39 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ Right, it is. ⁣ ⁣ 0:35:40 - Hilary Russo⁣ Yeah, absolutely is. ⁣ ⁣ 0:35:42 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ There's courage in the conversation. That's my hope. ⁣ ⁣ 0:35:44 - Hilary Russo⁣ Thank you. There is and being vulnerable to take that step. As long as it doesn't step on your own boundaries and hurt you, it's okay. It's okay to try that as well. Are there any final thoughts you'd like to leave with listeners? ⁣ ⁣ 0:35:57 - Khara Croswaite Brindle⁣ My hope is it's just gonna speak to the women who felt like they haven't had a voice in this conversation before now. So I'm really grateful that we could talk about adult daughters and what they're going through. As I alluded to, there are lots of books out there for the parents and I definitely recommend a bunch of them, and I wanna make sure these women have a voice too. So thank you for having me on the podcast to talk about it. ⁣ ⁣ 0:36:16 - Hilary Russo⁣ Okay, my friends, if you or someone you know is facing family estrangement, specifically with a mother-daughter relationship, consider putting Khara's book in your hands or paying it forward. That book, again is called Understanding Ruptured Mother-Daughter Relationships Guiding the Adult Daughter's Healing Journey through the Estrangement Energy Cycle. I added a link to that book, as well as her children's book also, and you can also connect with Khara by visiting her website or her social media. You'll find those links as well. And Khara mentioned the importance of self-regulation tools. There are many. We need to put those little tools in our brain candy jar right and pull them out when we need those the sweetest ways to be kind to our mind. As I always say, Havening could be one of those tools. If you wanna learn how to hug it out, how to put the healing in your own hands, set up a call with me. Let's see if Havening is right for you. ⁣ ⁣ HIListically Speaking, is edited by 2 Market Media with music by Lipone Redding and Listen to by you, my listener. So thank you for your continued support. ⁣ ⁣ On that note, never forget the importance of healthy boundaries and if you need support, know that there is always help, because the most important relationship is the one with self. I love you, I believe in you and I will see you next week.