Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

*Note: This episode is about my goal to reduce the tension between those who stay in the Church and those who leave** My friend Andy Newman (married father of three, Ex-Mormon, therapist, LGBTQ ally, bridge builder) join us to discuss: * Understanding/supporting your spouse that left the church * Understanding/supporting your spouse that stays in the church * What helps couple stay strong * Shares values over shared beliefs * The Gottman Method * A,C,T,S Andy’s work is more than theoretical—as he talks “in-real-life” about how this works in their marriage with examples of how he supports his wife and three daughters in their church attendance (including giving a talk at a daughter’s baptism) and the peace he has found with people he loves holding different beliefs. Andy mentions the work of Allan and Kattie Mount and their podcast “Marriage on a Tightrope”. Thank you, Andy, for bringing your clinical expertise and own personal journey to help those in a mixed-faith marriage. I learned so much from you and appreciate your voice and healing work in our community. You are a good man—glad to have you on the podcast! Links: Psychology today: www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/andy-newman-gilbert-az/974441 IG: www.instagram.com/andynewmanlpc/ TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction_therapy Twitter: @andynewmanlpc Epsiode One: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-846-andy-newman-episode-one/id1347971725?i=1000734877746

My friend Rebecca Mullen (lives in Colorado, master certified life coach) joins us to talk about her work of healing including: * Becoming an LGBTQ ally in her younger years * Removing shame and providing healing * Helping everyone to be their authentic selves * Loving people that Churches don’t always love/accept * Principles for managing marriage conflict * Importance and application of love If you are looking for insights/perspectives to heal and bring people closer together, Rebecca’s work will help you. Thank you, my friend Rebecca, for being on the podcast—your great heart—and all you are doing to bring us together as the same human family. Links: Rebecca’s web site (you can find her contact info, life coach work, podcast and book here): https://RebeccaMullenCoaching.com/ Outdoor Therapist episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/dk/podcast/episode-736-zak-hazlett-the-outdoor-therapist/id1347971725?i=1000645256176

My friend Katie Searle (certified mediator, philanthropic consultant, grant writer, and mother) joins us to share her story, including: * Being raised in two homes after parents divorced (mother and her wife; father and his wife) * Going to BYU-Hawaii, part of Dr Chad Ford’s Peacebuilding Program and working at the McKay Center for Intercultural Understanding, temple marriage * Co-founding Kinfolk Magazine, adapting to the pace of a fast growing start-up Leaving the Church (LGBTQIA+ issues/feeling uneasy with messages that harmed people she loves, valuing authenticity over obedience, developing own moral compass) * Moving to Copenhagen and heartbreaking loss of a baby son Leo, at 5 months pregnant; the isolation of grieving abroad without community * Becoming pregnant again, husband coming out as gay, marriage ending Moving back to Oregon, managing heartbreak, daughter born, support from mother and her wife * Falling in love with Joe, his death on the day he was to move in, profound grief Opening heart to a new love with Matt and their committed partnership, shared life, and blended family Katie writes about grief with these powerful words: “I never sought to be an expert in grief and loss, but that is where my life journey has taken me. In navigating two separate households as a child, a transition of faith, the losses of a child, a marriage, a career, and the sudden death of my ‘chapter two’—my soul love—I’ve become well-acquainted with the darkness of deep loss, grief, and the grit of burning resilience. I care deeply about equipping others with the ability to adapt to life’s unavoidable conflicts, trauma, tragedies and stressors. Learning to live with adversity and grief in a culture that is pain-adverse can feel impossible and incredibly lonely, but there are ways to move forward (rather than moving on), rebuild and reclaim joy. I know this, because I’ve lived it time and time again—and so can you.” Katie is also the Assistant Director of the Waymakers initiative (with Chad Ford & Patrick Mason), and planner of their conflict resolution workshop series, REPAIR. Dr. Chad Ford writes about Katie’s roll in their recent workshop to "Maintaining Love during Faith Transitions" with these words: “Katie came up next. She spoke about her own faith transition in the most vulnerable way possible. She reminded us of both the fragility of change and the bravery it takes to find truth and belonging, especially when that means making choices that ask ourselves and others to leave behind old versions of ourselves. There were tears flowing as Katie, in her own graceful way, reminded us what it means to be human.” Thank you, Katie, for your courage to share your story—which helps all of us better understand grief and more tools to help others walking this road. Thank you for your bridge building work in our community. Thanks for all you are doing to bring us together as the same human family. Links: Waymakers' next REPAIR event: Interfaith REPAIR: A multi-faith workshop on healing divides and building communities of peace, March 6th, 2026, Salt Lake City (Tickets on sale early 2026) Waymakers: https://www.waymakers.us Support Waymakers: https://donorbox.org/waymakersproject Katie Searle's website & contact info: https://katiesearle.com/ Chad Ford's Earlier Episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-847-dr-chad-ford-new-book-seventy-times-seven/id1347971725?i=1000735977230

My friend Isaac Durfey (who was on episode 833) joins us to update listeners on his journey including: * Parent leaving on a mission * What happened to help him stopping “hating himself for being gay” * Importance of new beginnings * Friends like Jake and Joe Sharp (who were on episode 811) * Feeling about the Family Proclamation * Hope for the future * Love of the LDS Church and the support/love he receives Thank you, my friend Isaac, for being on the podcast—you are a good man. Links: Episode 833: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/episode-833-isaac-durfey-black-gay-latter-day-saint/id1347971725?i=1000710494050 Episode 811: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/episode-811-jake-and-joe-sharp-lost-brother-sam-to/id1347971725?i=1000691741343

My friend Russ Hinckely (mid 60s, married father of three, lives in Arizona, career in business) joins us to talk about his new book “Beyond Belief”. Russ’s book focuses “not just what we hold in our minds and hearts, but what we DO and how we actually LIVE the teachings of Christ (from Ashlie Carnecelli)—and “how one can truly follow Jesus in walking the path rather than just believing in it (from Jeff Anderson).” “Beyond Belief” is a pragmatic look at what Jesus taught and the behaviors He modeled. While creeds highlight foundational elements of our beliefs, they are only the starting point to living His teachings. One Amazon reviewer writes “ Russ Hinckley's "Beyond Belief" where we are reminded to get back to the basics of what Jesus was all about.” If you are looking for a book to put into action Jesus’s teachings to bless/help/heal others (and ourselves), please listen to this podcast and read/share Russ’s powerful book. Thank you, Russ, for helping us move “beyond belief” to make the teachings of Jesus’s actionable to bless others. Links: Russ’s book at Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/B0CRPTF1B8 Russ’s e-mail: russ.hinckley@gmail.com

My friend Dr. Chad Ford (Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Utah State University, prior director of McKay Center at BYU-Hawaii, expert of conflict resolution, PhD Georgetown University, joins us to talk about his new book published by Deseret Book “Seventy Times Seven: Jesus’s Path to Conflict Transformation”. Amazon reviews mention “one of the best they’ve read about Jesus, how it inspires readers to embrace compassion, encourages reflection and discussion, and practical application”. Chad talks about the “Gospel of Reconciliation” using the teachings and example of Jesus to apply to our lives. In the podcast he talks about principals to reduce tension and increase understand between current Latter-day Saints and former Latter-day Saints—and also to manage political tension within our congregations. Chad also talks about REPAIR (inaugural event in October 2025) bringing together world-class peacemakers to help attendees have better skills to navigate conflict. If you are looking to be a more effective peacemaker and disciple of Christ, I encourage you to listen to this episode, read Chad’s book, and share his work with others. Chad brings his academic training, decades of experience, and insights into Jesus’s teachings to help us all better navigate conflict. I learned so much listening to Chad—and am deeply inspired. Thank you, Chad, for your much needed work in our community. Links: Chad’s weekly newsletter: chadford.substack.com Chad’s new book Seventy Times Seven: amzn.to/439uaY9 Chad’s book on conflict Dangerous Love: amzn.to/4oLGFkQ More information on Repair: waymakers.substack.com

*Note: This episode is about my goal to reduce the tension between those who stay in the Church and those who leave** My friend Andy Newman (married father of three, Ex-Mormon, therapist, LGBTQ ally, bridge builder) joins for a series of episodes. In this episode, Andy talks about “the shame train” during his youth including: *Porn, substance use, and working with his church leaders * Shame around the “addiction label”, restrictions (temple trips), and falsely seeing himself as a “terrible addict” * How porn/substance use was more about self-medicating from the shame and trauma than a desire to displease God * How his worth become dependent on church leaders * All the people who helped him along the way Andy then talks about his road to be an LGBTQ ally: * Started in high school in Iowa with proximity to queer people * Felt he had to choose the Church over queer people * Powerful post-mission experience giving a blessing to a queer student at BYU-I * Fully taking on the ally role following the pulse nightclub shooting * Staying in the church as an ally * What led him to eventually leave the Church Andy also talks about why he isn’t trying to get other people to leave the Church—but trying to build bridges of understanding. In the next episode, will talk about his mixed-faith marriage (Andy’s wife is active LDS) and how they have a beautiful/supportive marriage—including Andy attending church. Thank you, my friend Andy, for being on the podcast and your great heart and clinical skills to help heal others and bring us together as the same human family. You are a good man and friend. Links: Psychology today: www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/andy-newman-gilbert-az/974441 IG: www.instagram.com/andynewmanlpc/ TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction_therapy

My friend Suzie Greco—a survivor of child sex abuse and domestic abuse, a Latter-day Saint, a Harvard Divinity School graduate (Master's in Theology), a doctoral candidate, and an advocate in numerous organizations working to end abuse—joins us to share her powerful story and discuss her new book, The Stone Sphere. In this must-listen-to podcast, Suzie shares: * The meaning behind the title and image on the front cover of the book. Untrained Ministry and Institutional Harm, including both positive and negative experiences with her Stake President, David F. Hollard—who gave Suzie permission to include his name and their experiences in the book. * A Transformative Theology of Forgiveness—a much healthier framework for healing. * Pathways to Healing, Redemption, and Spiritual Transcendence, the golden thread of the book. It's hard to overstate the power and importance of this conversation. Suzie is doing breakthrough, trailblazing work. I learned so much and was deeply moved. If you are a survivor of abuse—sexual, domestic, clergy, or otherwise—please listen. This episode will help you. (You are also welcome to reach out to Suzie directly; her email is in the show notes.) And if you are a local church leader, friend, family member, or really anyone else, please listen and share this podcast and Suzie’s book. It will provide you with better tools to help and support others. I truly wish I had heard this podcast and read Suzie’s book before my own church assignments—I would have been so much better equipped to help provide healing. Thank you, Suzie, for writing this book and for your vulnerability on the podcast. Your insights, courage, and work are helping so many. You are one of my new heroes. Links: Suzie’s Website: https://www.thestonesphere.com/ Suzie’s Email: S.E.Greco@sms.ed.ac.uk Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FD9FT8B1 Suzie’s Facebook :https://www.facebook.com/suzgrec2 Dialogue Journal Article, "Confronting Men's Violence Against Women & Girls in the LDS Church": https://www.dialoguejournal.com/articles/confronting-mens-violence-against-women-and-girls-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/

My friend Autumn McAlpin (co-director and mother of two queer sons) and Vienna Boyes (co-director, mid 20s, queer) join us to share their stories and also their new feature length documentary called “Sanctuary”. Sanctuary—a must see—is a powerful documentary telling stories at the intersection of being a Latter-day Saint (and other Christian faiths) and being LGBTQ. I watched Sanctuary and was deeply moved hearing powerful stories/projects/efforts of queer people, parents, allies, and local church leaders. I learned so much and was deeply moved. I encourage everyone to watch Sanctuary (see show notes) and share with others. The film will be going on a screening tour in early 2026 before being released on streamers -- please follow the film's website and Instagram for screening announcements. Thank you, Autumn, and Vienna—and everyone involved with the documentary. You are making a huge difference in our community! Links: Sanctuary Web Site: https://sanctuarydoc.com/ Sanctuary Instagram: @sanctuarydocfilm Vienna's Instagram: @indigothestudio Autumn's Instagram: @autumnmcalpin Spencer’s Song: https://open.spotify.com/track/2qKXdi4mxZ0rXGoxJ6jlCF

My friend Bryson Lind (active gay Latter-day Saint, mid 30’s) joins us to discuss his new therapy practice in Utah (Aletheia Counseling) and important topics he helps clients (LGBTQ and straight) solve including: * Overcoming unwanted behaviors * Reconstructing a relationship with the Divine * Honoring everyone’s path * Trusting our Light of Christ/Inner Compass * Navigating relationships with parents and leaders * Developing self-confidence and patience If you are looking for a therapist (or insights from a therapist to help you—or to be a better ally for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints), this is a must listen podcast. Bryson’s brings his lived experience, clinical training, and 5 years of clinical practice together to offer powerful solutions and principles. I was so moved listening to Bryson and so grateful to have him back on the podcast. Thank you, Bryson. You are a good man doing great work in our community. Links: Bryson’s e-mail: bryson@aletheiacounselingtherapy.com Bryson’s Work Phone: 385-442-9721 Bryson’s earlier podcast: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-588-bryson-lind-rm-byu-grad-gay-clinical-mental-health-counselor Bryson’s Psychology Today profile: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/bryson-garrett-lind-provo-ut/1090307