Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

My friends McArthur Krishna and Anne Pimentel (authors, BYU grads, advocates for those on the margins) join us to talk about their important new book (at Deseret Book and Amazon) called “Changemakers: Women Who Bolding Built Zion” The podcast/book covers important topics: How revelation is “scattered” How women led changing the Church Institution with Primary and Relief Society How most of the change we can impact is in our local area around culture Anne’s racial awakening—and her desire to help people of other races feel belonging The “Back Yard Principle” Supporting those who leave the church Why McArthur and Anne (knowing all the complicated issues) stay in the Church Why McArthur hopes the Church her daughters are raised in is different than the Church she was raised in—and how we should embrace change Importance of personal authority If you are looking to improve church culture to better create Zion so more feel welcome, I encourage you to read/share this book. It has real-life stories and perspectives/principles to help each of us. I wish I had read a book like this a long time ago. I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast, read the book—and share with others. Thank you, McArthur and Anne, for your needed work in our community. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1560855185 Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/product/6085124.html McArthur IG: @mcarthurkrishna_creates McArthur FB: www.facebook.com/mcarthur.mcarthurfreeranger Heavenly Mother Matters IG: @heavenlymothermatters Anne IG: @the.vision.beautiful James Jones Online Course: btbacademy.thinkific.com/courses/lds-anti-racism-101-abandoning-attitudes-and-actions-of-prejudice Chapter on How We Should Treat People Who Leave the Church: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zkupzyte3lqqtxla6q9y1/Chapter-4-How-Should-We-Treat-Those-Who-Leave-the-Church.pdf?rlkey=w00hdkyywo5m9dyg1uwscqbxm&dl=0

My friends Shirley Washenko (sexual abuse survivor/advocate) and Sage Williams (MSc, RN, long-time advocate) joins us to talk about their new, groundbreaking and needed book (published by Deseret Book) called “Healing after Sexual Abuse, A Latter-day Saint Perspective”. The book has these powerful chapters: 1) Establishing Identity 2) Uncovering Wounds 3) Embracing Agency 4) Differentiating Healing Journeys 5) Responding to Anger with Integrity 6) The Core: Connection 7) It Takes “an Angel” to Speak the Truth 8) Grief: Linking, Past Present, and Future 9) Forgiveness in a New Light 10) The Healing Journey This is one of the finest podcasts we’ve done on healing after sexual abuse. Shirley and Sage (from their respective experiences) bring new, impactful, and practical insights to help heal from sexual abuse. The book will help sexual abuse survivors and also the rest of us as we learn better tools to help them. I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast, read the book—and share with others. Thank you, Shirley and Sage, for your life-saving work to bring hope and healing. You are two of my heroes. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Web Site: www.healingaftersexualabuse.com/ Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/product/P6078641.html Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1639934219

My friends Ashli Carnicelli, Trina Caudle, and McArthur Krishna join us to talk about their new book “Mother in Heaven: A Gospel Topics Essay Study Guide.” The book is exactly what the title says: a study guide for the Church's Gospel Topics essay on Heavenly Mother. The book authors talk about the spiritual benefits in our lives of learning about the doctrine of Heavenly Mother and why She matters. This book is aligned with official Church statements and teachings about the doctrine of Heavenly Mother. The authors hope that it helps people seeking our Mother in Heaven to spiritually connect with Her so She is real, intentional, and active in our lives and in Church conversations. Thank you, Ashli, Trina and McArthur, for your needed work. I was deeply moved by your insights and good hearts. I encourage everyone to read this book. Links: Mother in Heaven Study Guide: www.amazon.com/dp/1734228725 Cherish 1: The Joy of Our Mother in Heaven: www.amazon.com/dp/1948218879 Cherish 2: The Love of Our Mother in Heaven: www.amazon.com/dp/1734228733 A Girl's Guide to Heavenly Mother: www.deseretbook.com/product/5258047.html A Boy's Guide to Heavenly Mother: www.deseretbook.com/product/5258052.html Combined IG account: @heavenlymothermatters Personal IG accounts: @ashlicarnicelli @libraryhouseediting @mcarthurkrishna_creates Library House Editing page with links to the gospel topics essay footnotes and some other resources: https://libraryhouseediting.com/?page_id=741

*** This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat *988 *** My friend Isaac Durfey (lives in Utah County, Age 34, Adopted, Active Latter-day Saint) bravely joins us to share his story which includes: * Being bullied * Being suicidal * Working through pornography * Convicted of being a sex offender and spending 4.5 years in prison * Leaving prison—what he learned, why he isn’t going back, finding hope * Accepting he is gay—but doesn’t define him * Talented musician * Great/supportive parents * Role of friends to help him feel he is loved and needed * Great YSA Wards * Hopes for his future including the Melchizedek Priesthood and Temple Endowment Thank you, Isaac, for your courage to come on the podcast and share your story—stories like yours help others find hope. Thanks for helping all understand our Heavenly Parents love all of us and how the Gospel of Jesus Christ gives hope, heals and helps us move forward. You are a good man. Links: Isaac on Instagram: @durfsmurf25

My friend Lilly MacKenzie (who was on Episode 765) joins us to update listeners on her journey—including her spiritual journey (which includes more about her purpose, her belief in the Church, and her mission to help others). Lilly also talks about how the August 2024 transgender handbooks updates negatively impacted her—and how/why she continues to be a deeply committed and believing Latter-day Saint. She also talks about the support/support groups that help her. And she talks about how her emotional health is so much better since transitioning. Thank you, Lilly, for being on the podcast. You are brave. You are helping so many. Links: June 2025 Gather Conference: www.gather-conference.com/ Lilly’s earlier episode (765): podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-765-lilly-mackenzie-transgender-latter-day/id1347971725?i=1000661805297

My friend Aiden Kelly (he/him, trans man, age 23, future in theatre) and my friend Annalee Kelly (married mother of 4, RM, active LDS, from Idaho Falls) join us to share their story. Aiden starts and talks about: * Immense pain of gender dysphoria * Writing in his journal—and sharing that journal entry with his mother as a way to come out as a boy * Knowing sharing his pain with others would be key to getting help and making his future possible * How hormone treatment and top surgery ended the pain and have him hope * Parents support * Glad he is alive. Has hope and a future. * Advice to others who are suicidal/have no hope. Annalee then shares about: * The long-term hatred Aiden had for his body (hair pulling, pounding on his chest, etc) * Asking advice from his Bishop (good experience) * Had to put Aiden’s life ahead of my original dreams/hopes * Generally positive ward and family support * Starting Open Arms of Idaho * Pain of the August 2024 transgender handbook policy update * “Aiden is a masterpiece” * Aiden’s Father support Aiden is one of my heroes—a brave, talented, a good man—with a wonderful future. I’m glad you are alive Aiden and thank you for your courage to share your story. You give hope to others. And thank you Annalee for helping us know we can love and support our LGBTQ friends and family—and how that is part of responsibility as Latter-day Saints and followers of Jesus. Thank you for all the work you and your team is doing in the Idaho Falls area to bring more love and understanding. You are all some of my heroes. You are a beautiful family. And your story will help so many. Links: Open Arms of Idaho: openarmsidaho.org/ Open Arms of Idaho Instagram: @openarmsidaho Open Arms of Idaho Facebook: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100089047401155

My friend Nikki Andreasky (BYU-I grad, lives in AZ, they/them) joins us to share their story including: * Long-term gender dysphoria/chest dysphoria—and prayerful decision to have top surgery * Love of the temple * Learning of the handbook changes (Aug 2024) for transgender members weeks before the surgery leading to feelings of “being stabbed in the gut”, “betrayed” and “really hurt” * Meeting with local leaders * Proceeding with the top surgery—feelings of gender euphoria Pain of not being able to attend the temple and no chance of temple sealing * How North Star gave them a spiritual boost * Why they stay in the Church * Supportive mothers—grandma’s scriptures Nikki is one of my heroes—for their spiritual/emotional maturity and navigating an incredible complex road as a non-binary Latter-day Saint. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this episode so we can better understand, love and support non-binary/transgender Latter-day Saints. I believe they are needed members of the Body of Christ. Thank you for being on the podcast, Nikki. You are awesome. Links: North Star Voices of Hope: www.northstarsaints.org/voh-nikki-2022 Earlier Listen Learn and Love Podcast: soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-320-lynsie-andreasky-active-lds-asexual-aromantic-and-gender-queer/sets Nikki’s Tic Tok: www.tiktok.com/@scattering_sunshine?_t=ZT-8w1g82Dlqsl&_r=1 Nikki’s Facebook: www.facebook.com/share/16HB8rwVrQ/?mibextid=wwXIfr

*** This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat *988 *** My friend Jenn Curtis (late 40s, lives in California, experiences same-sex attraction) joins us to share her powerful story out of a desire to help others including: * Sexual assault survivor which led to unhealthy coping behaviors and immense shame * Falsely concluding “God is disappointed in me” * Falsely concluding (at age 17) that death would be a better option * Feeling unlovable and that “no one could love the real me” * Finding more hope—but two subsequent decades of living in a “form of internal hell” * Powerful spiritual experience where God told her she is a “bullfighter” * Honest about sexual orientation with God, herself, and husband * Helpful friends—part of the process to remove shame * As friends loved/accepted her, Jenn considered “I might be lovable—and God may love me too” * My story is a “beautiful love story” * Finding joy * Powerful EFY experience * North Star This is a super-powerful, spiritual, and vulnerable podcast providing principles to help us better understand God’s love, how shame has no place in the Gospel, and how Jesus helps heal us. If you are in a hard spot, please listen to Jenn’s story. It will give you more hope. And if you are looking to better support our SSA/LGBTQ friends, please listen and share Jenn’s podcast. Thank you for being on the podcast, Jenn! You are so brave—you are bullfighter—and your courage is helping so many! Links: youtube.com/@LatterdayWomenWarriors https://www.northstarsaints.org/voh-jenn www.youtube.com/@TheApocrypharules www.northstarsaints.org/voices-of-hope-profiles North Star: www.northstarsaints.org/ Jenn’s Facebook: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007513065761

My friend Sharlee Mullins Glenn (noted author, former adjunct faculty at BYU, committed Latter-day Saint, married mother of 5, founder and former Executive Director of MWEG) joins us to talk about her important and groundbreaking new book, an expansive epic poem full of imagination and possibilities, centering the feminine divine. In the words of Fiona Givens, Sharlee’s epic poem “is an ambitious and beautiful rendering of Latter-day Saint beliefs and yearnings regarding the feminine divine, the ethos of existence, and the centrality of agency, relationships and love.” Some of the ideas Sharlee shared include: 1) Her book is fiction--a blending of theology, science, and imagination 2) It is an offering of imagination, and does not purport to set forth doctrine 3) Imagination is a spiritual gift and reflects God's divine nature 4)The inclusion of the feminine divine was driven by two burning questions: a. Where are the women in the grand, ancient story of our beginnings, and b. What good is a doctrine if we never speak of it or seek greater light and knowledge concerning it? 5) Her hope is that her "offering of imagination" will prompt others to examine the boundaries of their own paradigms and consider new possibilities 6) Heavenly Mother “will be unveiled again” This is a unique and insightful podcast focused on a book (which is a beautiful poem) that is a reimagining of the entire scope of existence, centering the feminine divine and the preeminence of love. I learned so much from Sharlee and encourage our listeners to read her book and share it with others. Links: Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1961471205/ Barnes and Noble: www.barnesandnoble.com/w/1147162041

My friend Sara Sumsion (RM, Age 30, YSA ward leader, getting a master’s degree in marriage and family therapy) joins us to share her unique story. Sara starts with her good father’s decision to leave the Church and her initial judgements about his decision. She then shares her difficult mission experience including spiritual abuse that nearly broke her and led to her considering leaving the Church. Sara talks about finding the grey and her intentional decision to stay in the Church, her reconstructed testimony, and her desire to help others find hope and healing. Sara talks about her road to become a vocal LGBTQ Ally including her Instagram post of her non-binary friend. Sara talks about helping everyone feel welcome in their YSA ward and also practicing boundaries/good communication when interacting with less active members. Sara concludes with her Mother’s Day lesson including a focus on Heavenly Mother and helping all women feel good and welcome (regardless of their current status or feelings regarding motherhood). If you are working to stay in the Church, Sara’s journey may help you. And if you are looking for more insights about how to teach/organize a positive meeting on Mother’s Day, Sara suggestions may help you. And if you are looking to create a safer place in your Ward, Sara’s story may help you. Thank you, Sara, for your work to create Zion. I learned so much from you. You give me hope for the future of our Church and world. I see the example of Jesus reflected in your ministry. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sara.sumsion IG: @sar_assumption/