

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp
Tokens Media
What does it really mean to live a good life—in our politics, our faith, our work, and our relationships?
On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time.
Together we ask:
How can religion be a force for healing instead of division?
What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity?
Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good?
How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively?
If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road.
Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.
On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time.
Together we ask:
How can religion be a force for healing instead of division?
What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity?
Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good?
How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively?
If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road.
Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jul 1, 2023 • 55min
110: Unabridged Interview: Gretchen Rubin
This is our unabridged interview with Gretchen Rubin.
What does it take to be happy?
Our show is often over-academic in its approach to such questions. But what if there was a way to discover answers that work without bothering too much about definitions, drawn-out studies, and the search for a one-size-fits-all objectivity?
In other words, what if the path to happiness includes some personal experimentation, fueled by good old fashioned trial and error?
In this episode, Gretchen Rubin describes what she called “The Happiness Project,” a year-long process of trying various highly practical methods of increasing her happiness: joining book clubs, giving warm hellos and goodbyes, learning one’s own sleep preferences, reducing clutter, and trying every flavor of ice cream. “Spoiler alert,” she says. “It did make me happier.”
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan
Resources mentioned this episode
Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl
Neglected Sense Quiz
The Happiness Project by Gretchen Rubin
Life in Five Senses by Gretchen Rubin
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
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Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jun 29, 2023 • 55min
110: Gretchen Rubin: The Happiness Project
What does it take to be happy?
Our show is often over-academic in its approach to such questions. But what if there was a way to discover answers that work without bothering too much about definitions, drawn-out studies, and the search for a one-size-fits-all objectivity?
In other words, what if the path to happiness includes some personal experimentation, fueled by good old fashioned trial and error?
In this episode, Gretchen Rubin describes what she called “The Happiness Project,” a year-long process of trying various highly practical methods of increasing her happiness: joining book clubs, giving warm hellos and goodbyes, learning one’s own sleep preferences, reducing clutter, and trying every flavor of ice cream. “Spoiler alert,” she says. “It did make me happier.”
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan
Resources mentioned this episode
Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl
Neglected Sense Quiz
The Happiness Project by Gretchen Rubin
Life in Five Senses by Gretchen Rubin
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jun 24, 2023 • 1h 10min
109: Unabridged Interview: Rainn Wilson
This is our unabridged interview with Rainn Wilson.
Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica… and spirituality?
Rainn Wilson is known for playing beloved misfit, paper salesman, and beet farmer Dwight Schrute on the hit TV show The Office. But in Hollywood, he’s known for being a bit of a misfit in another way… he frequently talks about religion in public.
Recently, he wrote a book called 'Soul Boom' in which he calls for a spiritual revolution. “We've thrown the spiritual baby out with the religious bathwater,” he says, “but spiritual ideas helped transform my life and made my life better, and the stakes have never been higher.”
In this episode, he discusses his upbringing in the Bahá'í faith, how his career as an actor and comedian in Hollywood took a dire toll on his mental health, and how a return to spirituality gave him the tools to begin living a happy, flourishing life.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
The Road to Character: David Brooks
Resources mentioned this episode
Soul Boom by Rainn Wilson
Laughing Matters Documentary
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jun 22, 2023 • 55min
109: Rainn Wilson: Dwight Schrute Talks About Religion
Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica… and spirituality?
Rainn Wilson is known for playing beloved misfit, paper salesman, and beet farmer Dwight Schrute on the hit TV show The Office. But in Hollywood, he’s known for being a bit of a misfit in another way… he frequently talks about religion in public.
Recently, he wrote a book called 'Soul Boom' in which he calls for a spiritual revolution. “We've thrown the spiritual baby out with the religious bathwater,” he says, “but spiritual ideas helped transform my life and made my life better, and the stakes have never been higher.”
In this episode, he discusses his upbringing in the Bahá'í faith, how his career as an actor and comedian in Hollywood took a dire toll on his mental health, and how a return to spirituality gave him the tools to begin living a happy, flourishing life.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
The Road to Character: David Brooks
Resources mentioned this episode
Soul Boom by Rainn Wilson
Laughing Matters Documentary
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jun 17, 2023 • 1h 4min
108: Unabridged Interview: Judith Shulevitz
This is our unabridged interview with Judith Shulevitz
Why would anybody want to practice Sabbath?
Over a decade ago, Judith Shulevitz wrote a book called 'The Sabbath World: Glimpses of a Different Order of Time.' Before most of us had smartphones and remote jobs, she was calling attention to the troubling trajectory of an increasingly productivity-focused western culture. In a few years, she argued, we would simply be working all the time.
Her prediction, it seems, has come true. The ramping up of 24/7 industry, news, and entertainment has created a baseline busyness unlike any in human history. But what if it’s doing more harm than good?
What if, to live a good life, we need to rest, even if it comes at a cost?
In this episode, Judith discusses how we got here, and why the ancient practice of Sabbath might help us re-establish a healthy relationship to time and to each other.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer
The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke
Man Shall Not Live by Profit Alone: Jay Jakub
Time Management for Mortals: Oliver Burkeman
Resources mentioned this episode
The Sabbath World by Judith Shulevitz
The Rainbow by D.H. Lawrence
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link For Abridged Episode
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

4 snips
Jun 15, 2023 • 54min
108: The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz
Why would anybody want to practice Sabbath?
Over a decade ago, Judith Shulevitz wrote a book called 'The Sabbath World: Glimpses of a Different Order of Time.' Before most of us had smartphones and remote jobs, she was calling attention to the troubling trajectory of an increasingly productivity-focused western culture. In a few years, she argued, we would simply be working all the time.
Her prediction, it seems, has come true. The ramping up of 24/7 industry, news, and entertainment has created a baseline busyness unlike any in human history. But what if it’s doing more harm than good?
What if, to live a good life, we need to rest, even if it comes at a cost?
In this episode, Judith discusses how we got here, and why the ancient practice of Sabbath might help us re-establish a healthy relationship to time and to each other.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer
The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke
Man Shall Not Live by Profit Alone: Jay Jakub
Time Management for Mortals: Oliver Burkeman
Resources mentioned this episode
The Sabbath World by Judith Shulevitz
The Rainbow by D.H. Lawrence
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jun 10, 2023 • 1h 18min
107: Unabridged Interview: Azim Khamisa
This is our unabridged interview with Azim Khamisa
How do you forgive the man who killed your son?
In 1995, Azim Khamisa’s only son Tariq was shot and killed while delivering a pizza. The killer was a 14-year-old gang member named Tony Hicks, and due to a recent change of law in the state of California, Tony was tried as an adult and sentenced to 25 years in prison.
But instead of responding with a call for outrage or revenge, Azim did the unthinkable: he forgave his son’s killer, fought for his release, then gave him a job.
“My interpretation of this tragedy was that there are victims at both ends of the gun,” he says. In this episode, he tells the full story of how he uses his experience to help end youth violence, even recruiting his son’s killer to join in the work. It is one of unimaginable grief, staunch faith, and unwavering compassion.
Show Notes:
Similar Episodes
Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher
Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence
Resources mentioned this episode
TKF.org
AzimKhamisa.com
Email Azim: azim@azimkhamisa.com
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link For Abridged Episode
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jun 8, 2023 • 54min
107: Ending Violence Through Forgiveness: Azim Khamisa
How do you forgive the man who killed your son?
In 1995, Azim Khamisa’s only son Tariq was shot and killed while delivering a pizza. The killer was a 14-year-old gang member named Tony Hicks, and due to a recent change of law in the state of California, Tony was tried as an adult and sentenced to 25 years in prison.
But instead of responding with a call for outrage or revenge, Azim did the unthinkable: he forgave his son’s killer, fought for his release, then gave him a job.
“My interpretation of this tragedy was that there are victims at both ends of the gun,” he says. In this episode, he tells the full story of how he uses his experience to help end youth violence, even recruiting his son’s killer to join in the work. It is one of unimaginable grief, staunch faith, and unwavering compassion.
Show Notes:
Similar Episodes
Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher
Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence
Resources mentioned this episode
TKF.org
AzimKhamisa.com
Email Azim: azim@azimkhamisa.com
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jun 3, 2023 • 1h 18min
106: Unabridged Interview: Martin Sheen
This is our unabridged interview with Martin Sheen.
In this episode, Lee sits down with the former President of the United States…
At least, that’s how many listeners may know Martin Sheen, an award-winning actor known for his roles in Apocalypse Now and The Departed, and perhaps most famously for playing President Jed Bartlet in the hit TV series The West Wing.
But offscreen, Martin is perhaps best described as a committed Catholic with a beautiful conversion story, and an ardent peace activist who has been arrested over 60 times. In this episode, he tells his whole story, full of humor and grace, all the way from his childhood in Ohio to his acting career, his coming to faith, and much more.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
The Architect of The American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson
Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear
Resources mentioned this episode
The West Wing Cathedral Scene
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link For Abridged Episode
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jun 1, 2023 • 54min
106: Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
In this episode, Lee sits down with the former President of the United States…
At least, that’s how many listeners may know Martin Sheen, an award-winning actor known for his roles in Apocalypse Now and The Departed, and perhaps most famously for playing President Jed Bartlet in the hit TV series The West Wing.
But offscreen, Martin is perhaps best described as a committed Catholic with a beautiful conversion story, and an ardent peace activist who has been arrested over 60 times. In this episode, he tells his whole story, full of humor and grace, all the way from his childhood in Ohio to his acting career, his coming to faith, and much more.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
The Architect of The American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson
Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear
Resources mentioned this episode
The West Wing Cathedral Scene
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Stitcher | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


