

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp
Tokens Media
What does it really mean to live a good life—in our politics, our faith, our work, and our relationships?
On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time.
Together we ask:
How can religion be a force for healing instead of division?
What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity?
Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good?
How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively?
If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road.
Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.
On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time.
Together we ask:
How can religion be a force for healing instead of division?
What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity?
Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good?
How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively?
If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road.
Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Dec 27, 2023 • 55min
132: Unabridged Interview: Tom and Tony Bancroft
Twins Tom and Tony Bancroft grew up sharing a small bedroom, trying to out-draw each other. Today, they have long careers under their belts working for Disney, Warner Brothers, and many more esteemed animation studios.
Their life’s work is a testament to the power of passion, imagination, faith, and brotherhood. In this episode, they discuss how they became animators at the world’s most famous companies, what it’s like to be storytellers for the masses, and what their faith has meant to them over the course of their lives.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Johnnyswim: Reality TV, the Cuban Revolution, and a Disco Queen Mother
Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss
Resources mentioned this episode
The Bancroft Brothers Animation Podcast
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Dec 26, 2023 • 52min
135: Unabridged Interview: Heather Holleman
This is our unabridged episode with Heather Holleman.
How important is it to be a good conversationalist?
In an age of widespread loneliness, close relationships are at a premium, and it’s harder than ever to find common ground, even with those we spend time with on a daily basis. According to Heather Holleman, this is due in part to the fact that we have lost the ability to have what she calls “good conversations.”
“Good conversations create personal closeness,” she says. “When you have good conversations, it could intervene in the loneliness epidemic.”
In this episode, she discusses her book “The Six Conversations: Pathways to Connecting in an Age of Isolation and Inactivity,” in which she offers loads of practical tips for becoming better listeners, talkers, question askers, and ultimately, human beings.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: Lessons from the World’s Longest Scientific Study on Happiness
Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection
Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known
Resources mentioned this episode
The Six Conversations by Heather Holleman
Transcript for Abridged Episode
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10 snips
Dec 21, 2023 • 54min
135: Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation (Best of NSE)
In this podcast, Heather Holleman discusses the importance of good conversations in combating loneliness. She offers practical tips on becoming better listeners and question askers. The podcast explores the crisis of loneliness and the power of curiosity in relationships. It also emphasizes the significance of meaningful conversations and the role they play in achieving a flourishing life. The speakers discuss the importance of encouragement, the power of community and belonging, and share favorite questions to ask during conversations.

Dec 19, 2023 • 1h 8min
134: Unabridged Interview: Rebecca DeYoung
This is our unabridged interview with Rebecca DeYoung.
Sin.
It's a word seen by many as a "religious word," one which evokes all manner of images. Like, maybe Las Vegas. Or the temptation of Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis. But many see it as an irrelevant word to their contemporary life.
Our guest today has studied what are traditionally referred to as the seven deadly sins. She proposes that the medieval taxonomy of sin is actually -quite- relevant to our lives today; and that it can steer us -away- from destructive ways of life, and toward habits, practices, dispositions which make possible, a better life.
Rebecca DeYoung is author of the award-winning book “Glittering Vices: A New Look at the Seven Deadly Sins and Their Remedies” and a Professor of Ethics, History, and Philosophy at Calvin College.
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4 snips
Dec 14, 2023 • 54min
134: Rebecca DeYoung: The 7 Deadly Sins (Best of NSE)
Sin.
It's a word seen by many as "religious word," one which evokes all manner of images. Like, maybe Las Vegas. Or the temptation of Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis. But many see it as an irrelevant word to their contemporary life.
Our guest today has studied what are traditionally referred to as the seven deadly sins. She proposes that the medieval taxonomy of sin is actually -quite- relevant to our lives today; and that it can steer us -away- from destructive ways of life, and toward habits, practices, dispositions which make possible, a better life.
Rebecca DeYoung is author of the award-winning book “Glittering Vices: A New Look at the Seven Deadly Sins and Their Remedies” and a Professor of Ethics, History, and Philosophy at Calvin College.
Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dec 12, 2023 • 54min
133: Unabridged Interview: Peter Harris and Jo Swinney
This is our unabridged interview with Peter Harris and Jo Swinney.
“If you live in community, you have no choice but to tell a true story.”
Peter Harris, Anglican clergyman and founder of environmental non-profit A Rocha, lost his beloved wife Miranda in a car accident in South Africa. Miranda left behind a grieving community, and an unfinished book.
Their daughter, Jo Swinney, found her mother’s unfinished book, full of wisdom and stories from a life dedicated to hospitality. She finished and published it, and in the process, learned much about both grief and joy.
In this episode, Peter and Jo sit down in front of a live audience to discuss the legacy of hospitality and faith that Miranda left, what it has been like to grieve, and what it might be like to see a deteriorating world with the same hope that Miranda did.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Peter Harris: The Collapse of the Biosphere
Katharine Hayhoe: “The Most Polarized Issue in the United States”
Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence
Resources mentioned this episode
A Place at the Table by Jo Swinney and Miranda Harris
A Rocha International
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Dec 7, 2023 • 54min
133: Peter Harris and Jo Swinney: A Place at the Table
“If you live in community, you have no choice but to tell a true story.”
Peter Harris, Anglican clergyman and founder of environmental non-profit A Rocha, lost his beloved wife Miranda in a car accident in South Africa. Miranda left behind a grieving community, and an unfinished book.
Their daughter, Jo Swinney, found her mother’s unfinished book, full of wisdom and stories from a life dedicated to hospitality. She finished and published it, and in the process, learned much about both grief and joy.
In this episode, Peter and Jo sit down in front of a live audience to discuss the legacy of hospitality and faith that Miranda left, what it has been like to grieve, and what it might be like to see a deteriorating world with the same hope that Miranda did.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Peter Harris: The Collapse of the Biosphere
Katharine Hayhoe: “The Most Polarized Issue in the United States”
Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence
Resources mentioned this episode
A Place at the Table by Jo Swinney and Miranda Harris
A Rocha International
Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dec 5, 2023 • 34min
132: Unabridged Interview: N.T. Wright
This is our unabridged interview with N.T. Wright.
How does art affect our theology?
“Most Christians believe that the aim of the game is to go to heaven when you die. That’s wrong,” says N.T. Wright, Anglican bishop and bestselling author. In fact, he argues, most Christians have gotten it completely backwards. We don’t go there when we die - it comes to us when we live.
In this episode, we discuss how such a drastic theological error can be widely accepted, and why the stories we tell each other through art have a greater impact on our beliefs than we think.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
William Paul Young: Author of The Shack
Rebecca DeYoung: Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life
John Mark Comer: The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry
Resources mentioned this episode
Ask N.T. Wright Anything Podcast
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Nov 30, 2023 • 48min
132: N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry
How does art affect our theology?
“Most Christians believe that the aim of the game is to go to heaven when you die. That’s wrong,” says N.T. Wright, Anglican bishop and bestselling author. In fact, he argues, most Christians have gotten it completely backwards. We don’t go there when we die - it comes to us when we live.
In this episode, we discuss how such a drastic theological error can be widely accepted, and why the stories we tell each other through art have a greater impact on our beliefs than we think. Plus, we hear on the subject from two master storytellers, Tom and Tony Bancroft.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
William Paul Young: Author of The Shack
Rebecca DeYoung: Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life
John Mark Comer: The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry
Resources mentioned this episode
Ask N.T. Wright Anything Podcast
Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows
Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
Become a Subscriber: NSE+
See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy
Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nov 23, 2023 • 53min
131: NSE Thanksgiving Special: Conversation and Gratitude
Happy Thanksgiving!
How can one be grateful during difficult times? And how do we talk to one another in a polarized world?
In this episode, we bring you four conversations to tee you up for a successful and meaningful time with family and friends. First, we hear from six-time Grammy-winner Amy Grant on her newfound gratitude in the wake of a traumatic bike accident. Then, Heather Holleman gives us all practical tips on having great bonding conversations that make people feel seen and heard, transcending the things that divide us. Third, community organizer and activist Diane Latiker shares how she opened up her home and changed the trajectory of a neighborhood through hospitality. Lastly, author Oliver Burkeman reveals the key to living in the moment and transforming the mundane into something meaningful.
Altogether, it’s the perfect toolkit for getting in the right frame of mind and heading into the holidays with gratitude and conversation.
Show Notes:
Similar episodes
Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded
Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation
America’s Gun Epidemic: David Hemenway, Chris Hays, Carly Crouch, and Diane Latiker
Oliver Burkeman: Time Management for Mortals
Resources mentioned this episode
4,000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman
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