The Modern People Leader: Forward-Thinking HR

Jessica Zwaan, the author of 'Built for People' and expert in People Ops, delves into innovative hiring practices for operational teams. She discusses the five essential skillsets needed in candidates, emphasizing the power of planning as a secret weapon. Zwaan introduces the concept of T-shaped talent and advocates for case studies in interviews to assess problem-solving abilities. With a focus on moving HR from compliance to strategy, she highlights the significance of flexibility and creativity in hiring processes, aiming to reshape the employee experience.

In this engaging discussion, Matt McFarlane, Director of FNDN and a compensation expert, teams up with Haris Ikram, Co-Founder and CEO of CandorIQ, who specializes in tech solutions for HR. They delve into the complexities of modern compensation, emphasizing the need for transparency and effective job architecture. The duo shares strategies for aligning compensation with performance, leveraging AI tools, and transforming merit cycles. They also explore the shifting expectations of Gen Z in the workplace, providing invaluable insights for forward-thinking HR leaders.

Abby Brennan joined us on The Modern People Leader. We discussed the power of ONA as the “shadow org chart,” how it reveals hidden influencers, and why it may be key to building smarter, more connected teams in the age of AI.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (06:30) Abby’s Career Path – From CPA to PwC's Chief Purpose Office to People Ops at Carta(13:00) Sabbatical & Career Reset – Reflections on alignment, values, and inertia(15:30) Her time at Carta – Leading 6 People Ops functions and managing hypergrowth(19:00) Experiencing a RIF – Abby’s personal and professional learnings from layoff(24:15) What is ONA? – Introducing Organizational Network Analysis as the “shadow org chart”(28:30) ONA in Action – Discoveries from Carta’s network visualizations(35:10) AI & The Future of HR – ONA as a strategic lens for effectiveness, not just efficiency(43:00) ONA Output & Use Cases – How managers and orgs can act on the data---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

In this engaging discussion, Jessica Zwaan, an expert in structuring people operations as a product team, shares her insights on building effective HR squads. She emphasizes the value of using spider diagrams for squad design and proposes piloting a single squad before scaling. The conversation also tackles the importance of aligning skills and roles within teams, balancing core HR duties with innovative projects, and the power of a shared mission across squads. Jessica's real-world examples provide a practical perspective on revolutionizing people ops.

Bryan Power, Head of People at Nextdoor, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about how the company is navigating its “third era” under the return of co-founder Nirav Tolia. We explored “The Founders Mentality”, embracing an owner’s mindset, and Nextdoor’s AI bootcamp.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.🔗 Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (03:55) Bryan's story: From recruiter to dot-com era to Square and Yahoo(09:40) Dot-com crash, pivot to outplacement services, joining Google(11:58) Post-Google reflections: Joining Square, Yahoo, then Nextdoor(15:22) How Nextdoor makes money & unique value of neighbor-based networks(17:29) Impact of tariffs on ad-driven business models(18:48) Segue to "Nextdoor's three eras" framework(20:30) Era 1 to Era 3: Cultural and operational transformations(24:51) Pitfalls and learnings from founder return transitions(28:29) Founder's Mentality: The framework that guides Era 3(31:21) Insurgency, frontline obsession & owner's mindset explained(33:31) Nextdoor’s AI experiments and new company rhythms(36:55) When founders should stay deeply involved(39:15) How HR can operationalize the Founder’s Mentality(42:58) Simplifying leadership layers to regain focus and speed(47:13) AI bootcamps & the future of people team productivity(50:03) “Prompt pantry” inspiration and scalable personal learning(53:34) AI as co-pilot vs. replacement: New expectations for employees(55:28) People Ops as a product---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Jessica Zwaan, COO at Talentful and author of Built for People, brings insightful perspectives on people operations. She discusses the evolution of 'human ops' versus 'people ops', emphasizing that perfection isn't required in these frameworks. Zwaan also highlights the transformative impact of AI on HR, advocating for a balance between technology and human touch. Listeners can expect engaging tips on agile practices and how to effectively navigate team dynamics in a rapidly changing work environment.

Taylor Bradley, VP of Talent Strategy and Success at Turing, joined us on The Modern People Leader.We talked about why every HR team needs to create an AI “prompt pantry”, how Turing “AI’d” their way out of onboarding 800 employees in five days, and how to build AI workflows for HR.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (05:43) Taylor’s Unlikely HR Origin Story: From Paramedic to People Leader(08:19) Real-Life Delivery & Skills from the Field Applied to HR(10:14) Risk Frameworks in Emergency Response Now Power HR Decisions(11:11) Segue to AI & Turing's Mission Explained in Plain Language(13:44) Explosive Growth at Turing & The AGI Boom Post-ChatGPT(16:52) The AI Education Gap in HR & Why Prompting is the New Power Skill(17:42) Building the “Prompt Pantry” and a Culture of Experimentation(20:17) Making Prompting Practical: From Docs to Voice Interfaces(24:34) Why GenAI Makes Work More Enjoyable & The Joy of Mastery(26:31) Blitzscaling at Turing: Emotions, Lessons & Focus(28:36) How Turing Built “Allen”: Async Learning in 48 Hours(31:21) Iterating with AI Voices & Learning Design at Scale(33:38) Allen’s Second Form: 52K Tickets and Agentic Support(35:17) Stephen’s AI Use Story + Clarifying What Agentic Really Means(37:22) What Agentic HR Actually Looks Like in Practice(39:48) Building Custom AI Tools for HR: Turing’s R&D Playbook(42:28) Training GPTs with Empathy: Linguistics & Feedback Loops(44:51) AI’s Disruption of the HR Job Market: An Optimist’s Take(47:01) Managing AI Agents as the New HR Org Design(50:04) What Will Finally Tip Lagging Companies Into AI Adoption---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Molly Sands, Head of the Teamwork Lab at Atlassian, leads research aimed at enhancing collaboration among teams. In this conversation, she unveils insights from Atlassian's State of Teams report, highlighting three key practices that top teams employ. Molly also discusses how remote-first teams have an edge in AI adoption and the importance of harnessing collective knowledge. She emphasizes starting small with AI solutions to empower teams and fosters a culture of experimentation while sharing her career journey and advice for people leaders.

Pat Wadors, CHRO at Intuitive, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about how to find and amplify the golden nuggets of your culture, the three layers of a great employee experience, why you need to “touch the elephant”, and what kids’ stories can teach us about leadership.---- 🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.🔗 Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (05:48) Pat’s 18-Month Update: New Role, Book Launch, and Life Shift(13:55) What is Intuitive? The Da Vinci System & MedTech Innovation(18:34) How It Works: Da Vinci, AI Feedback & Remote Surgeries(21:02) Culture Work: Merging Two Cultures & The Player-Coach Model(25:20) Us vs. Them: Culture Nuance, Middleware & Global Complexity(28:51) Finding the Golden Nuggets: How to Identify Cultural Truths(31:28) Mapping Culture: From Aspirational Values to Operational Change(33:41) Origin Story & Its Role in Company Culture(35:08) Becoming an Archaeologist: Crafting a Cohesive Narrative(38:49) How to Make Culture Measurable: The CEO Buy-In(41:04) Building MPL Culture: Rigor, Humor, and Platform Principles(45:00) Touch the Elephant: Bias, Context & Emotional Intelligence(46:51) Why Pat Wrote the Book: Fables, Storytelling & Self-Awareness(51:45) Pat’s Book Picks: Mulan, Goldilocks & the Lessons Behind Them(58:16) The Bat Phone: Parenting Advice & Living Your Values---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Jessica Zwaan, a People Ops expert and author of 'Built for People,' shares her journey into the innovative world of PeopleOps as a Product. She reveals the origins of this game-changing framework and discusses how a pivotal blog post inspired her book. Jessica dives into the challenges and achievements of launching MPL Build, a collaboration aimed at enhancing team methodologies. She highlights shifts in perceptions about PeopleOps and explores the growing adoption of agile practices in the U.S., setting the stage for the future of HR.