The Modern People Leader: Forward-Thinking HR

Jessica Zwaan joined us again on The Modern People Leader to unpack how to structure a people ops as a product team. She shared four ways to build an HR squad, how to use a spider diagram for squad design, and why it’s smart to pilot just one squad first.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (04:38) MPL Build is Live: First Five Posts & Call for Feedback(05:40) Topic Intro: Structuring Teams for PeopleOps as a Product(06:05) Skillset Shifts & Misconceptions Around “Restructuring”(07:27) The “Squad” Model Explained: Origins, Roles, & Purpose(10:05) What a Real Squad Looks Like in HR(11:11) Assigning Roles Within Squads Based on Skill Spikes(13:05) Spider Diagrams & Skill Mapping for Balanced Teams(15:26) Aligning Squads to Initiatives, Funnels, or Metrics(17:54) Alternatives to Funnels: Focusing on Metrics & Experience(18:44) Adapting for Smaller Teams: Prioritizing Problems with Impact(19:33) Balancing Squad Work with Core HR (“HumanOps”) Duties(21:01) Real-World Squad Splits: Immediate Needs vs. Futureproofing(23:02) Solving Root Problems to Avoid Endless Hiring Loops(24:38) The Importance of a Shared Mission Across Squads(25:07) Working in Sprints vs. Continuous Delivery in PeopleOps(26:47) Measuring Progress & Reporting: Squad Leads vs. Line Managers(28:51) Real Example: How Jessica’s Partner’s ML Team Uses Squads(30:17) Career Progression in Squads: The “Entrepreneurial” Path(32:49) Jessica on Preferring Projects Over People Management(34:26) The Role of VP People or CHRO as “Chief Product Officer”(35:10) Dropbox Example: Leading Culture Through Squad Strategy(36:59) Coaching Mid-Level HR Team Members Through the Transition(38:13) Addressing Career Anxiety & Skill Development in New Roles(40:20) Challenges of Implementing Squads in Large Enterprises(42:41) Practical Skills, Organizational Resistance & MVP Delivery(44:23) Piloting with a Positive Halo Squad: Agile Rollouts That Stick---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Bryan Power, Head of People at Nextdoor, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about how the company is navigating its “third era” under the return of co-founder Nirav Tolia. We explored “The Founders Mentality”, embracing an owner’s mindset, and Nextdoor’s AI bootcamp.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.🔗 Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (03:55) Bryan's story: From recruiter to dot-com era to Square and Yahoo(09:40) Dot-com crash, pivot to outplacement services, joining Google(11:58) Post-Google reflections: Joining Square, Yahoo, then Nextdoor(15:22) How Nextdoor makes money & unique value of neighbor-based networks(17:29) Impact of tariffs on ad-driven business models(18:48) Segue to "Nextdoor's three eras" framework(20:30) Era 1 to Era 3: Cultural and operational transformations(24:51) Pitfalls and learnings from founder return transitions(28:29) Founder's Mentality: The framework that guides Era 3(31:21) Insurgency, frontline obsession & owner's mindset explained(33:31) Nextdoor’s AI experiments and new company rhythms(36:55) When founders should stay deeply involved(39:15) How HR can operationalize the Founder’s Mentality(42:58) Simplifying leadership layers to regain focus and speed(47:13) AI bootcamps & the future of people team productivity(50:03) “Prompt pantry” inspiration and scalable personal learning(53:34) AI as co-pilot vs. replacement: New expectations for employees(55:28) People Ops as a product---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Jessica Zwaan, COO at Talentful and author of Built for People, brings insightful perspectives on people operations. She discusses the evolution of 'human ops' versus 'people ops', emphasizing that perfection isn't required in these frameworks. Zwaan also highlights the transformative impact of AI on HR, advocating for a balance between technology and human touch. Listeners can expect engaging tips on agile practices and how to effectively navigate team dynamics in a rapidly changing work environment.

Taylor Bradley, VP of Talent Strategy and Success at Turing, joined us on The Modern People Leader.We talked about why every HR team needs to create an AI “prompt pantry”, how Turing “AI’d” their way out of onboarding 800 employees in five days, and how to build AI workflows for HR.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (05:43) Taylor’s Unlikely HR Origin Story: From Paramedic to People Leader(08:19) Real-Life Delivery & Skills from the Field Applied to HR(10:14) Risk Frameworks in Emergency Response Now Power HR Decisions(11:11) Segue to AI & Turing's Mission Explained in Plain Language(13:44) Explosive Growth at Turing & The AGI Boom Post-ChatGPT(16:52) The AI Education Gap in HR & Why Prompting is the New Power Skill(17:42) Building the “Prompt Pantry” and a Culture of Experimentation(20:17) Making Prompting Practical: From Docs to Voice Interfaces(24:34) Why GenAI Makes Work More Enjoyable & The Joy of Mastery(26:31) Blitzscaling at Turing: Emotions, Lessons & Focus(28:36) How Turing Built “Allen”: Async Learning in 48 Hours(31:21) Iterating with AI Voices & Learning Design at Scale(33:38) Allen’s Second Form: 52K Tickets and Agentic Support(35:17) Stephen’s AI Use Story + Clarifying What Agentic Really Means(37:22) What Agentic HR Actually Looks Like in Practice(39:48) Building Custom AI Tools for HR: Turing’s R&D Playbook(42:28) Training GPTs with Empathy: Linguistics & Feedback Loops(44:51) AI’s Disruption of the HR Job Market: An Optimist’s Take(47:01) Managing AI Agents as the New HR Org Design(50:04) What Will Finally Tip Lagging Companies Into AI Adoption---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Molly Sands, Head of the Teamwork Lab at Atlassian, leads research aimed at enhancing collaboration among teams. In this conversation, she unveils insights from Atlassian's State of Teams report, highlighting three key practices that top teams employ. Molly also discusses how remote-first teams have an edge in AI adoption and the importance of harnessing collective knowledge. She emphasizes starting small with AI solutions to empower teams and fosters a culture of experimentation while sharing her career journey and advice for people leaders.

Pat Wadors, CHRO at Intuitive, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about how to find and amplify the golden nuggets of your culture, the three layers of a great employee experience, why you need to “touch the elephant”, and what kids’ stories can teach us about leadership.---- 🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.🔗 Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (05:48) Pat’s 18-Month Update: New Role, Book Launch, and Life Shift(13:55) What is Intuitive? The Da Vinci System & MedTech Innovation(18:34) How It Works: Da Vinci, AI Feedback & Remote Surgeries(21:02) Culture Work: Merging Two Cultures & The Player-Coach Model(25:20) Us vs. Them: Culture Nuance, Middleware & Global Complexity(28:51) Finding the Golden Nuggets: How to Identify Cultural Truths(31:28) Mapping Culture: From Aspirational Values to Operational Change(33:41) Origin Story & Its Role in Company Culture(35:08) Becoming an Archaeologist: Crafting a Cohesive Narrative(38:49) How to Make Culture Measurable: The CEO Buy-In(41:04) Building MPL Culture: Rigor, Humor, and Platform Principles(45:00) Touch the Elephant: Bias, Context & Emotional Intelligence(46:51) Why Pat Wrote the Book: Fables, Storytelling & Self-Awareness(51:45) Pat’s Book Picks: Mulan, Goldilocks & the Lessons Behind Them(58:16) The Bat Phone: Parenting Advice & Living Your Values---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Jessica Zwaan, a People Ops expert and author of 'Built for People,' shares her journey into the innovative world of PeopleOps as a Product. She reveals the origins of this game-changing framework and discusses how a pivotal blog post inspired her book. Jessica dives into the challenges and achievements of launching MPL Build, a collaboration aimed at enhancing team methodologies. She highlights shifts in perceptions about PeopleOps and explores the growing adoption of agile practices in the U.S., setting the stage for the future of HR.

In this installment, Shane Koller, Chief People Officer at Ancestry, shares his innovative journey of running HR like a product team. He discusses the critical connection between employee experiences and organizational goals, emphasizing how storytelling enhances engagement. Shane highlights the importance of a shareholder mindset within HR and the need for CEO alignment to transform traditional practices. He also dives into metrics for measuring success and the lessons learned from 'fail fast' moments in the HR landscape.

Michele Bousquet, Chief People Officer at Strava, shares her inspiring journey from temp worker to HR leader. She discusses the significance of authenticity and empathy in leadership, emphasizing a human-centered approach to HR. Michele advocates for simplifying HR practices and making data-driven decisions that prioritize people. She also highlights the power of community-building through Employee Resource Groups and the importance of handling tough situations with honesty and compassion.

Michael Walsh, CEO of Cariloop, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We discussed the caregiving challenges facing employees today, how companies can better support working caregivers, and the data-backed insights from Cariloop’s Top Needs Report.---- 🔗 Download Cariloop’s 2025 Employee Caregiver Top Needs Report.---- (7:20) How Michael's personal experience with caregiving sparked the idea for Cariloop(19:37) Why employers need to rethink caregiving support(27:43) Why caregiving stigma persists at work(38:46)  The top caregiving challenges right now(55:50) Making the business case for caregiver support(01:01:22) Rapid Fire Questions(01:04:13) One Word or Phrase Close---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.