The Modern People Leader: Forward-Thinking HR

We were joined by people leaders from Glassdoor, Asana, and Upstart. We talked about the fragmented burnout and how it’s hitting people differently, how performance expectations have shifted in the last 6-12 months, and more.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (03:18) Good news stories from the guests and hosts(10:25) Fragmented burnout & how it’s hitting different roles(12:09) External pressures, AI anxiety & workplace expectations(13:27) Burnout as a personal experience: ownership vs. company responsibility(16:35) Rethinking roles, flexibility & meeting changing employee expectations(19:16) Empowering managers to reimagine roles using AI(20:41) Clarifying the Employee Value Proposition (EVP) during transformation(22:08) Internal mobility in the age of AI: org chart vs. work chart(24:32) From bell curve to bell cliff: redefining performance expectations(26:04) HR’s role in transparent, human-centered performance shifts(29:20) Has the performance bar moved? Surveying the room(31:53) How Glassdoor is redesigning performance with clarity & structure(34:03) The emotional toll of high performance & psychological safety risks(35:44) Simple, powerful manager questions to surface blockers(37:01) Peer feedback and cross-functional collaboration blockers(41:09) Asking for help, normalizing team-based problem solving(42:06) After party reflections: rethinking performance with old & new problems(45:58) Why AI is the catalyst—but not the only answer—for a new performance model(48:54) Real-time AI coaching & proactive performance feedback at scale(52:23) Moving from annual reviews to check-in > coach > calibrate(55:05) Magic wand question: what performance challenge would you automate?---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Jessica Zwaan joined us again to unpack the metrics that actually matter in HR today. We talked about the three buckets of metrics every People Leader should use, why the RANS test is a better way to measure engagement, and the one metric to rule them all (ELTV:CAC). ---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (04:33) Metrics and Visualization: Where People Analytics Stands Today(05:41) Why HR Has Talked About Analytics for Years But Still Struggles(08:12) The Double-Edged Sword of AI in People Analytics(10:15) LLMs Are Great at Cleanup, Not Complex Analysis(12:04) What Good People Analytics Looks Like in Practice(13:44) Health, Operational, and Success Metrics Explained(16:28) Vanity Metrics HR Teams Should Avoid(18:12) The Case Against ENPS (Engagement Net Promoter Score)(21:05) Why You Can—and Should—Measure the “Unmeasurable”(24:15) The First Step in Building a Metrics-Led HR Culture(27:23) Why Manual Data Work is Still Essential(29:24) The Importance of Defining Critical Numbers(32:05) A Real Example: Visualizing Comp Data to Drive Strategy(34:12) Jessica’s Beef with Pie Charts (and Why You Should Care)(37:29) Favorite Metrics: Interview-to-Performance Correlation & RANS Test(42:45) Why ELTV to CAC Payback Should Be HR’s North Star Metric(47:43) Commercial Effectiveness Through People Metrics(48:13) Tech Stack Tips for Getting Started with HR Data---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Frieda Möcker, Head of People & Culture at Sastrify, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about the first steps she took to treat HR more like a product, how her team does sprint planning, and why she prefers “NCTs” over OKRs.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- Timestamps:(11:05) What’s Your Story? – Frieda’s path from business grad to People leader(17:30) Lessons in Career – Finding purpose, startups, and self-awareness(18:47) About Sastrify – SaaS management, shadow IT, and compliance(20:40) Why PeopleOps as a Product Resonated – Discovering the framework(23:03) Reading Jessica’s Blog – The gym moment that changed everything(25:15) Reaching Out to Jessica – Building connections through shared philosophy(26:23) Putting Theory into Practice – Mapping employee journeys, launching sprints(29:17) Our 3 Guiding Principles – Maximize impact, think like a scientist, build through others(31:33) Employee Research – Interviews, pulse checks, and surfacing insights(33:26) Making It Your Own – Culture fit and adapting frameworks(34:05) Maximizing to Mission – How priorities ladder up to company goals(38:27) Ruthless Prioritization – Why some good ideas wait in the backlog(39:35) Team Structure – A three-person generalist People team(41:33) Visualization in Practice – Miro, Asana, Slack, and the “SAN Stack”(42:58) Sprint Planning – Lifecycle mapping, roles, and task ownership(47:58) What Is ScrumBan? – Combining kanban boards and sprint logic(50:20) Blocking & Saying No – How visualizing work helps stakeholders understand tradeoffs---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Tiffany Stevenson, former Chief People Officer at Weight Watchers, Kelli Dragovich, a seasoned HR leader and co-host of HR Heretics, and Jennifer Rettig, Chief People Officer at Pendo.io, discuss the current pressures on HR leaders. They highlight the urgent need to reshape performance management, focus on clear expectations, and foster genuine conversations in the workplace. The trio also dives into the importance of building trust through transparent feedback and suggests modern solutions to better align performance reviews with organizational values.

Jessica Zwaan, the author of 'Built for People' and expert in People Ops, delves into innovative hiring practices for operational teams. She discusses the five essential skillsets needed in candidates, emphasizing the power of planning as a secret weapon. Zwaan introduces the concept of T-shaped talent and advocates for case studies in interviews to assess problem-solving abilities. With a focus on moving HR from compliance to strategy, she highlights the significance of flexibility and creativity in hiring processes, aiming to reshape the employee experience.

In this engaging discussion, Matt McFarlane, Director of FNDN and a compensation expert, teams up with Haris Ikram, Co-Founder and CEO of CandorIQ, who specializes in tech solutions for HR. They delve into the complexities of modern compensation, emphasizing the need for transparency and effective job architecture. The duo shares strategies for aligning compensation with performance, leveraging AI tools, and transforming merit cycles. They also explore the shifting expectations of Gen Z in the workplace, providing invaluable insights for forward-thinking HR leaders.

Abby Brennan joined us on The Modern People Leader. We discussed the power of ONA as the “shadow org chart,” how it reveals hidden influencers, and why it may be key to building smarter, more connected teams in the age of AI.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (06:30) Abby’s Career Path – From CPA to PwC's Chief Purpose Office to People Ops at Carta(13:00) Sabbatical & Career Reset – Reflections on alignment, values, and inertia(15:30) Her time at Carta – Leading 6 People Ops functions and managing hypergrowth(19:00) Experiencing a RIF – Abby’s personal and professional learnings from layoff(24:15) What is ONA? – Introducing Organizational Network Analysis as the “shadow org chart”(28:30) ONA in Action – Discoveries from Carta’s network visualizations(35:10) AI & The Future of HR – ONA as a strategic lens for effectiveness, not just efficiency(43:00) ONA Output & Use Cases – How managers and orgs can act on the data---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

In this engaging discussion, Jessica Zwaan, an expert in structuring people operations as a product team, shares her insights on building effective HR squads. She emphasizes the value of using spider diagrams for squad design and proposes piloting a single squad before scaling. The conversation also tackles the importance of aligning skills and roles within teams, balancing core HR duties with innovative projects, and the power of a shared mission across squads. Jessica's real-world examples provide a practical perspective on revolutionizing people ops.

Bryan Power, Head of People at Nextdoor, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about how the company is navigating its “third era” under the return of co-founder Nirav Tolia. We explored “The Founders Mentality”, embracing an owner’s mindset, and Nextdoor’s AI bootcamp.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Go book your next offsite with Marco Experiences.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.🔗 Download the State of Teams 2025 Report from Atlassian.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live San Francisco.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (03:55) Bryan's story: From recruiter to dot-com era to Square and Yahoo(09:40) Dot-com crash, pivot to outplacement services, joining Google(11:58) Post-Google reflections: Joining Square, Yahoo, then Nextdoor(15:22) How Nextdoor makes money & unique value of neighbor-based networks(17:29) Impact of tariffs on ad-driven business models(18:48) Segue to "Nextdoor's three eras" framework(20:30) Era 1 to Era 3: Cultural and operational transformations(24:51) Pitfalls and learnings from founder return transitions(28:29) Founder's Mentality: The framework that guides Era 3(31:21) Insurgency, frontline obsession & owner's mindset explained(33:31) Nextdoor’s AI experiments and new company rhythms(36:55) When founders should stay deeply involved(39:15) How HR can operationalize the Founder’s Mentality(42:58) Simplifying leadership layers to regain focus and speed(47:13) AI bootcamps & the future of people team productivity(50:03) “Prompt pantry” inspiration and scalable personal learning(53:34) AI as co-pilot vs. replacement: New expectations for employees(55:28) People Ops as a product---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Jessica Zwaan, COO at Talentful and author of Built for People, brings insightful perspectives on people operations. She discusses the evolution of 'human ops' versus 'people ops', emphasizing that perfection isn't required in these frameworks. Zwaan also highlights the transformative impact of AI on HR, advocating for a balance between technology and human touch. Listeners can expect engaging tips on agile practices and how to effectively navigate team dynamics in a rapidly changing work environment.