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Today we’ll take a look at a number of confusing scriptures that seem to indicate that hell is a place where the wicked are consciously tormented forever.  We’ll look at texts that talk about weeping and gnashing of teeth as well as the how the worm will not die nor the fire be quenched.  We’ll consider biblical phrases like “eternal punishment,” “eternal fire,” and “everlasting contempt.”  Last of all we’ll analyze two verses in Revelation that use the language of eternal torment to describe the final punishment. —— Notes —— State the Doctrine Simply The biblical punishment for the wicked is destruction not an eternal life of torture.  This is why we find scores of text that use words like perish, cut off, and death to describe the fate of the wicked. Texts that Support This Teaching Gen 2.17; 3.19, 22-23; 5.5; Ps 37.2, 9, 10, 20, 22, 27, 28, 34, 36; Mal 4.1-3; Mt 3.12; 7.13-14; 10.28; 18.8-9; Jn 3.16; Rom 6.23; Gal 6.8; 1 Tim 1.17; 2 Tim 1.9-10; Heb 10.26-27; 2 Pet 2.6; 3.6-7; 1 Jn 5.11-12; Jud 1.6-7 Logical Arguments that Support This Teaching If Jesus paid our penalty for sin and the penalty for sin is eternal conscious torment, then Jesus had to suffer eternal conscious torment. However, Jesus suffered temporary torture followed by death. What does it say about God that he set up our world to be such that those who refuse him must suffer day and night forever and ever without relief? How is he a God of love? Justice is proportional so if a man sins for 80 years, he should not suffer eternally. If God punishes people infinitely for a finite number of sins, then this is unjust. Difficult Texts[1] Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth in Fire/Outer Darkness Matthew 8.11-12 (cp. 13.42) 11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven,  12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” “weeping and gnashing of teeth” says nothing about the duration of a punishment. If someone faces judgement they are likely to weep and gnash, whether it is temporary or ongoing. “weeping” connotes grief and “gnashing of teeth” anger not suffering In the stoning of Stephen the mob got so angry that gnashed their teeth Acts 7.52-54 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered, 53 you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.”  54 Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him. [NASB: “they began gnashing their teeth at him”] Acts 7.54 ἔβρυχον τοὺς ὀδόντας Matthew 8.12 ὁ βρυγμὸς τῶν ὀδόντων. Unquenchable Fire, Worm Does Not Die Matthew 3.11-12 11 “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.  12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.” unquenchable fire is a fire that cannot be put out it refers to the quality of the fire not to its duration have you ever seen a fire raging so hot, you could not put it out if you tried? think of forest fires in California; they are unquenchable Mark 9.47-48 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thr

What is the destiny of the unrighteous?  Christians over the centuries have put forward three major options: eternal conscious torment (traditionalism), temporary torment followed by salvation (universalism), temporary torment followed by destruction (annihilationism).  In this lecture we'll cover the main texts supporting the annihilation of the wicked as well as three logical problems with the traditional view. —— Notes —— Understanding Immortality Gen 2.17 what was the original consequence for sin that God promised? death! Gen 3.19, 22-23 expelled from tree of life Gen 5.5 Adam died from the beginning the punishment for sin was death  proof 1 only God is immortal by nature (1 Tim 1.17;15-16) 2 humans are by nature mortal (will not by default live forever) 3 God gives the saved immortality through the gospel (2 Tim 1.9-10) through resurrection (1 Cor 15.52-53) therefore damned will not be immortal (John 3.16; Rom 6.23[1]; 1 John 5.11-12) Biblical Language of Destruction Psalm 37 uses terms to describe the fate of the wicked v2 wither quickly like the grass v9 cut off v10 be no more v20 perish v20 vanish like smoke v22 cut off v27 reward for good is to live forever v28 cut off v34 cut off v36 passed away Mal 4.1-3 day is coming that will set them ablaze, they’ll be ashes under your feet Mat 3.12 burn up chaff [wicked] w/ unquenchable fire unquenchable = cannot be put out until it consumes the fuel Jer 7.20: God’s wrath is unquenchable, so he tells Jer to stop praying…but after the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem and carried the people into exile, his wrath ended Mat 7.13-14  narrow gate leads to life; broad way leads to destruction Mat 10.28  destroy body and soul in hell Hades = greek for Sheol = realm of dead (the grave) Gehenna = valley of Hinnom = burning garbage dump where they used to sacrifice children to Moloch that Jesus used as an analogy for the final judgment Mat 13.40-42 all law-breakers thrown into fiery furnace “weeping and gnashing of teeth” indicates anger not suffering see Luke 13.28: weeping & gnashing b/c you see Abr. Is. Jac. in kingdom but yourselves cast out Mat 18.8-9 better to enter life crippled than to be thrown into eternal fire (hell of fire) life contrasted with fire Mat 25.46 eternal punishment vs. eternal life punishment that lasts forever not that is experienced forever (death penalty is irreversible) Heb 5.9 eternal salvation: process of saving was finite but outcome lasts forever Heb 9.12 eternal redemption: process of redeeming was finite but outcome lasts forever Gal 6.8 sow to the flesh -> reap corruption sow to the spirit -> reap eternal life Heb 10.26-27 those who go on sinning will get a fury of fire that will consume 2 Peter 2.6 Sodom&Gomorrah condemned to extinction as example of what happens to ungodly 2 Peter 3.6-7 future destruction is like Noah's flood Jud 1.6-7  Sodom & Gomorrah are an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire inhabitants of S&G were violently slain by fire Atonement Romans 5.6 “Christ died for the ungodly”

In our last episode, we examined the broad scope of scripture, stopping at many texts along the way that teach about a future kingdom when Jesus returns.  In this session, we’ll take a look at a number of sometimes misunderstood texts that seem to imply the kingdom is either already present or in heaven. Here is the picture of the Greek manuscript known as Codex Vaticanus on Luke 23.43 with an arrow pointing to the alleged comma: And here is Codex Sinaiaticus on 1 Timothy 3.16, with the hand of a later scribe “correcting” ος to θς, changing “who” to “God.” —— Notes —— State the Doctrine Simply The kingdom is the age when Jesus rules over the world from the throne of David in Jerusalem.  It is present in that the sense that his followers already recognize him as king and submit to his kingdom way.  (It’s been inaugurated but not consummated.)  When it arrives, it will fill the earth. Texts that Support This Teaching Gen 1.28; Ps 2.6-9; 37.9-11, 22, 29, 34; 110; Is 11.1-9; 25.6-9; 35; Dan 2.44; 7.13-14, 18, 22, 27; Mic 4.1-8; Am 9.11-15; Zeph 3.8-20; 45.18; Mt 5.5; 6.9-10; 13.24-30, 36-43; 19.27-28; 25.31-46; Lk 1.31-33; 13.23-30; Acts 1.3-8; 3.19-21; 1 Cor 6.1-3; 15.24-28; 2 Tim 2.11-13; Rev 2.26-27; 5.10; 11.15-18 Difficult Texts: Kingdom Is Already Here (Either as Spiritual Reality or Came on Pentecost) Luke 10.9 Heal the sick in it and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ Luke 11.20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. these two clearly imply the kingdom is not future but present in the ministry of Jesus we don’t have to take an “either or” hermeneutic; we can take a “both and” position Luke 17.20-31 20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed,  21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”  22 And he said to the disciples, “The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.  23 And they will say to you, ‘Look, there!’ or ‘Look, here!’ Do not go out or follow them.  24 For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.  25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.  26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man.  27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.  28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot– they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building,  29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all–  30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.  31 On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back. Albert Nolan: “Many Christians have been misled for centuries about the nature of God’s kingdom by the well-known mistranslation of Lk 17:21: “The kingdom of God is within” Today all serious scholars and translators agree that the text should be read: “The kingdom

We now begin a series of four lectures on the eternal destiny of the righteous and the wicked, including the kingdom and the judgement.  For today we are going to focus on what God promises for his own people in the age to come.  We’ll cruise through the entire bible (right from Genesis to Revelation), making key stops along the way to understand the golden thread, woven throughout scripture of the kingdom. —— Notes —— eschatology understanding of the last things or end times destiny of the righteous: kingdom destiny of the wicked: hell 3 dimensions to kingdom hope gospel way we are just talking about hope right now creation theology the first book of the bible begins with a poem, detailing God’s creation of universe Genesis 1 what repeats? And God said let there be and God saw that it was good and there was evening and there was morning—the ?? day every stanza begins with, “And God said” and “let there be” every stanza ends with, “and God saw that it was good” and “it was evening and morning” more patterns God creates heavens on day 1 God populates heavens on day 4 God creates the waters on day 2 God populates waters on day 5 God creates the land on day 3 God populates the land on day 6 Gen 1.26: The poem climaxes at the creation of humanity first time God brings others into creation the first thing he says about humans is for them to have dominion over everything else on earth Gen 1.27: God made us in his own image we are similar to him in some way also similar to the angels (cf. v26) he does not say the animals are in his image Gen 1.28: first commands God gives reproduce rule the world Gen 1.29: God gives his people food (vegetables, grains, & fruits) robust creation theology is the foundation for eschatology example of Gnostics who believed the physical universe was an accident people generally believe God will get in the end what he wanted in the beginning Isaiah 45.18 God’s plan is not to evacuate but to have his world inhabited last book reflects the first book Genesis records the beginning Revelation records the end river flowing out of Eden river flowing from God’s throne tree of life in the garden tree of life on either side of the river gold, bdellium, and onyx a ton of different precious stones God walking in the garden God dwelling with his people (see his face) garden city probationary permanent satan deceives satan done away with God curses ground no more curse first marriage last marriage what God originally wanted in the beginning he will get in the end! typically people conceive of the end based on what they believe God originally wanted in the beginning Promise to Abraham Gen 17.4-8 father of a multitude of nations (not just Israel!) to be God to you and your offspring give you land Canaan as an everlasting possession Promise to David 1 Chronicles 17.11-14 raise up one of your sins he will build me a house I will establish his throne forever Psalms Psalm 2.6-9 Psalm 37.9-11, 22, 29, 34 Psalm 110

In our last episode we looked at what the scriptures teach about humanity, including creation, death, and resurrection.  I laid out a case for conditional immortality from several important texts.  This time, we will consider a number of challenges to this understanding including: Philippians 1.23 “depart and be with Christ” 1 Corinthians 5.8 “absent from the body…present with the Lord” Luke 23.43 “Today you will be with me in paradise” Revelation 6.9-10 “under the altar the souls…cried out” Luke 16.19ff Rich man and Lazarus 1 Samuel 28.7ff the witch of Endor —— Notes —— State the Doctrine Simply The dead are asleep—unconscious—until the resurrection when they are brought back to life at the return of Christ. Texts that Support This Teaching Gen 2.7; 1 Kings 2.10; 11.43; 14.20; Job 3.11-14; Ecc 9.5-10; Ps 6.4-5; 13.3; 115.17; 146.3-4; Dan 12.2; Jn 11.11-14;5.28-29; 6.39-40, 44, 54; Acts 2.29, 34; 7.60; 1 Cor 15.6, 21-23, 51-55; 1 Thes 4.13-17 Logical Arguments comfort to know loved one is just resting in peace (RIP) would be weird if they watched everything you do don’t need to pray for them a million times hoping to change God’s mind immortality of the soul opens the door for spiritualism Lev 20.6 people whoring after mediums and necromancers will be cut off Lev 20.27 any medium/necromancer will be put to death Deut 18.9-13 abominable practice, a reason why Canaanites were expelled derives from pagan sources Plato, Egyptians, Norse, Hindu, etc. creepy to think deceased loved ones are watching everything we do has led to church abuse, i.e. sale of indulgences Difficult Texts Hand out article by Matt Perman at Desiring God: The “intermediate state” is the time between the death and the resurrection. Some have held that during this time we are unconscious or possibly even go out of existence. We do not think that this is biblical. The biblical evidence is that our soul continues on after death and that we remain conscious in the intermediate state while awaiting our final destiny of resurrected existence in the new heavens and new earth. First, Paul spoke of having the desire “to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better” (Philippians 1:23). Notice first of all that Paul speaks of death as a departure (from the body) not into temporary nothingness or unconsciousness but to be with Christ. If we are with Christ once we have died, then we continue existing. Second, notice that Paul speaks of this state as “very much better” than the present state. It would be hard to say such a thing of a state of complete unconsciousness. Particularly when we consider that Paul’s passion was to know Christ, it would seem that the reason the state beyond death is better than this present life is because we are with Christ and know it. If we were suddenly unconscious at death until the resurrection, wouldn’t it be better to remain in this life because at least then we would have conscious fellowship with Christ? Second, Paul also said that “while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord” and that therefore he would “prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord” (

In this lecture, you'll learn about anthropology--the bible's view of humanity.  In particular, we'll focus on the two ends of the spectrum: creation and death.  We'll see how the biblical view of humanity is rather exalted since we are made in God's image.  We'll examine what the bible teaches about death and resurrection and how the intermediate state is regularly labeled sleep.  —— Notes —— Why start here?  it’s where the bible starts (creation) anthropology: your understanding of humanity where do humans come from? two typical answers unguided natural processes based on huge amounts of time and inconceivably unlikely chance events (evolution) God made the first people (imago dei) Genesis account Gen 2.7: God personally creates humans with heavenly bodies God says, “let there be” with plants God says, “let there be” with animals (air, land, or sea) God says, “let there be” with humankind God stoops down he forms us; he shapes us from dust, like clay he breaths into our nostrils the breath of life sounds like mouth to mouth animals have the breath of life, but not such a tender description consider God’s human design 22 square feet of skin 206 bones 25 feet of intestines 45 miles of nerves 100,000 miles of blood vessels can live from hottest equatorial climates to the frigid polar caps skin provides waterproof barrier temperature regulation sensory input fingers are both finely tuned (painting) and strong (boxers) wrists enjoy 160 degrees of motion throw frisbee ride a motorcycle ball and socket shoulder joint allows 360 degrees of motion lift an object from the ground over our heads in one fluid motion hearts pump 2,000 gallons of blood each day never rest stomachs produce hydrochloric acid powerful enough to digest solid metal biped design allows for ridiculous range of activities climb trees run marathons ballet ears pick up incredible range of sounds soft sounds rock concerts voices can whisper, speak, yell, sing eyes allow for nearly 180 degrees of horizontal vision three dimensions brains process everything effortlessly and assemble a realistic perception of the external world capable of thinking abstractly (what’s better courage or integrity?) can imagine future possibilities mental simulator to run through plans art, science, relationships, sports, etc. people are capable of incredible creations Shakespeare your favorite song Burj Khalifa skyscraper in Dubai (more than a half mile high) Danyang-Kunshan Grand Bridge in China (more than 100 miles) bicycles, performance cars, submarines, airplanes, and spaceships we are discoverers charted a billion stars catalogued over a million animals species we are producers 130 million books over 28 million songs more than 2 million movies we peer into space far away and examine the minute DNA within the microscopic world you gotta admit, that God did a pretty amazing job making us! God’s creation was good (7x) significant b/c it means God made the universe and people the way he wanted it wasn’t some accident (Gnostics) was God’s origin

In this presentation you'll learn about the core creed of the bible, both in the Old and New Testaments, the Shema, and how that relates to the smattering of texts in which Jesus may be called "God."  If Yahweh alone is God then how can Jesus be God too?  Are there two Gods or is something else going on?  The answer is the principle of agency.  Jesus can be called God because he represents God. It is much  more likely that Jesus is called God because he represents God, just like Moses did to Pharaoh, the judges did to Israel, and the king did as God’s anointed one.  Jesus is the ultimate proxy, God’s agent through whom God’s word became a human being and spoke to his people.  Jesus was utterly transparent, always doing his father’s works, pursuing his God’s will, and speaking Yahweh’s words and thus can rightly be called God.  He’s not a separate God, but God’s human representative.  To meet Jesus is to meet God, not because he is God in himself, but because God was so at work within him. —— Links —— For a written version of this talk, see my article, “Explanations to Verses Commonly Used to Teach that Jesus Is God”Intro music: Jazzy Frenchy by bensound.com. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License.

We continue our refutation of Michael Brown’s opening statement by addressing a whole smattering of texts, including Isaiah 9.6, John 20.28, Colossians 2.9, 2 Peter 1.1, Romans 9.5, and 1 John 5.20. We explain and debunk Brown's unusual singular verb argument from 1 Thess 3.13, 2 Thess 2.16-17, and Rev 22.3-4. We briefly touch upon Zech 14.3-4 and Mat 28.19 before handling Brown's case for the independent personality of God's spirit (Acts 5.3-4; 2 Cor 13.14; John 15.26; Mat 12.32). We look at the angel passage from Gen 48.15-16 and the whole concept of seeing God in OT times. In the end we find that Brown's case is not only confusing and self-contradictory, but he also repeatedly presupposes the deity of Christ in exegesis, he cherry picks texts without regard for their contexts, and he regularly disregards the Hebrew culture of key passages. In the end we remain unconvinced by his case for the Trinity. Here are two manuscripts on Romans 9.5.  The first is Codex Vaticanus and the second is Codex Alexandrinus.  Note the very interesting punctuation after the word σάρκα (flesh) in each.  This indicates that the 4th and 5th century scribes took the latter clause as a distinct unit from the former in agreement with the punctuation we find in the New American Bible (NAB), "theirs the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, is the Messiah. God who is over all be blessed forever. Amen."  For comparison, here is the Greek from the NA28, "ὧν οἱ πατέρες καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ Χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα, ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν." To help you follow along, here is the relevant portion of the manuscript Brown used for his opening statement: That’s why Isaiah said in 9:6 that one of the Messiah’s titles would be, “Mighty God,” yet in Isaiah 10:21, it is Yahweh who is called “Mighty God.” That’s why Thomas said to the risen Jesus, “My Lord and my God!” in John 20:28. The text is totally clear! Thomas called Jesus his Lord and his God. And that’s why Paul wrote in Colossians 2:9 that “the whole fullness of deity” dwelt in bodily form in Jesus. Peter is clear as well, writing in 2 Peter 1:1 about “the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.” And it is very likely that Paul speaks of Jesus as God in Romans 9:5, while it is most likely that in 1 John 5:20, John states that Jesus Christ is “the true God.”That’s why Jesus could say that the Father was in Him and He in the Father (John 14:9-11). That’s why Paul identifies the Spirit of God with the Spirit of Christ in Romans 8:9-11. That’s why Paul could pray to the Father and Son together in 1 Thessalonians 3:13, saying, “Now may our God and Father himself, and our Lord Jesus, direct our way to you,” using a singular verb for the Father and Jesus. And why else would Paul include Jesus in a prayer to the Father, let alone pray to the Father and Son using a singular verb in the Greek – unless they are one? (See also 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17, where Paul puts Jesus first in the prayer, using a singular verb again: “Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.”)And that’s why prayer is offered directly to the Son in the New Testament. Stephen prays to Him in Acts 7:59 (“Lord Jesus, receive my spirit”); we are taught to pray, “Maranatha,” which in Aramaic means, “Our Lord, come!” And John calls out to Him in prayer in Revelation, “Even so, come Lord Jesus!” (Rev 22:20). Jesus even told us to ask Him for anything and He would do it (see John 14:14). And that’s why, in Revelation 22, we read th

We continue our refutation of Michael Brown's opening statement by addressing some alleged pre-existence texts in John 17.5, John 12.41, Philippians 2.6-11, and Matthew 23.37.  (See previous episodes here.)  Lastly we spend some considerable time working through Hebrews 1, giving special attention to verses 8 and 10.  To help you follow along, here is the relevant portion of the manuscript Brown used for his opening statement: There are other texts which explicitly point to the Son’s eternal preexistence. In John 17:5, Jesus prays to the Father, “And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.” Once again, the text is clear. John also tells us in chapter 12 that when Isaiah saw the Lord’s glory (meaning, Yahweh in His glory in Isaiah 6), it was the Son of God he saw, the one who suffers and dies in Isaiah 53. Isaiah saw the Son of God, and the Son was called Yahweh. That’s why Paul tells us explicitly in Philippians 2 that Jesus existed in the form of God yet emptied Himself and became a servant, dying for us. And that’s why Paul uses a text speaking of Yahweh in Isaiah 45:23, where God swears that every knee will bow to Him and every tongue swear to Him and applies the verse to Jesus, saying that every knee will bow to Him and every tongue confess that He is Lord. If the Son is not deity, that’s blasphemous, and it cannot possibly be to the glory of the Father. Just think if the verse were referred to an angel, rather than Yahweh. It’s unimaginable. Note also that Paul in this passage uses the example of Jesus in Philippians as an example of humility. He didn’t take what rightly belonged to Him – namely, the privileges of deity – but rather emptied Himself on our behalf. He who was eternally God came to earth as a servant to die for us!  That’s why Jesus says that He had often longed to have mercy on Jerusalem, but it was not willing (Matthew 23:37). He was the one wooing His people throughout Old Testament times. That’s why Hebrews 1:8, quoting from Psalm 45:7, says to the Son, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.” Yes, the Son is God and has an eternal throne! (The plain sense of the Hebrew and Greek texts is quite clear and the major reason there is any debate in how to translate the words is because of theological objections to the Messiah being God.) Not only so, but Hebrews continues, quoting from Psalm 102 and applying these words to the Son, “And, ‘You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;  they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.’” (Heb 1:10-12) The Son is the eternal creator, the one who always was and always will be. That’s what Scripture states! We don’t need to play games with this text and try to make it say something it is not saying. The text clearly and indisputably speaks of the Lord creating the heavens and the earth, which will ultimately wear out, but He – the eternal Lord – will remain the same. Yet Hebrews applies this to the Son! And Psalm 102 makes frequent reference to Yahweh, yet the psalm is referred to the Son in Hebrews 1. Not only so, but the Greek text speaks of the Lord creating the universe in the beginning (archas). There is no denying the plain truth of these words! And Hebrews makes the consistent argument that the Son is greater than the angels, yet in first-century Judaism, the very context of these words, there was no one higher than the angels other than God Himself. —— Links —— You can

In this episode we tackle the next chunk of Michael Brown’s opening statement in the recent Trinity debate.  We address his argument that since God’s words remain forever and Christ’s words remain forever, they must be the same (cf. Mat 24.35 vs. Isaiah 40.7-8).  Next we briefly explain the grammatical issues related to Titus 2.13 and the alleged Granville Sharp Rule.  Then we discuss Brown’s case for Jesus as the eternal, uncreator, creator of the cosmos (John 1, 1 Cor 8.6, and Col 1). To help you follow along, here is the relevant portion of the manuscript Brown used for his opening statement: That’s why in the Old Testament, Yahweh’s words remain forever (Isa 40:7-8) but in the New Testament it is Jesus’ words that will remain forever (Matt 24:35). The Lord declared in Isaiah 43:11, “I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior,” yet throughout the New Testament, Jesus is hailed as our Savior. Either He is one with God, or there is more than one true savior. Paul leaves us no doubt, referring to “our great God and Savior Jesus Christ” in Titus 2:13. That’s the most obvious and clear sense of the Greek. Jesus is our great God and Savior. We also learn from this same section in Isaiah that when Yahweh created the universe, He did it alone. As written in Isaiah 44:24, “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself.” Yet the New Testament tells us explicitly that the Son was involved in creation. In John 1:1, John uses the language of Genesis 1:1 in the Septuagint, saying that the Word was in the beginning (en arche), and explaining that what God was, the Word was. And, he continues, “All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men” (John 1:3-4). And, John tells us, it is this preexistent Word, this Word through which all things were created, which became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14). And that’s why John the Immerser explained that Jesus “ranks before me, because he was before me” (John 1:30). That’s why Jesus said that He was from above, that He came down from heaven, that He came from God and was returning to God (John 3:13; 6:38, 41; 8:23; 13:3). That’s why Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 8:6, “yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” Even more emphatically, he wrote, “For by him [meaning the Son!] all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together” (Col. 1:16-17). The text is clear. The Son is eternal. The Son is uncreated. All things were created through Him and for Him. You really have to engage in a hopeless series of exegetical gymnastics to deny the plain sense of these words. And remember: In Isaiah, Yahweh said no one was with Him when He created the universe, yet these texts say He created all things through His Son. That can only mean one thing: The Father and Son are one God! And that’s why Jesus explained that it was His Father’s will “that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father” (John 5:23). —— Links —— For a more extensive treatment of John 1.1, see Podcast 111 with John Schoenheit You can find the other episodes in this series on Refuting Brown’s Opening Statement here You can li