The Tech Leader's Playbook

In this episode of The Tech Leader's Playbook, Avetis Antaplyan sits down with Radhika Dutt—MIT-trained engineer, entrepreneur, and author of Radical Product Thinking, to rethink how high-growth companies set direction and measure progress. Radhika explains why traditional goal systems (KPIs/OKRs) often incentivize “performance theater,” tracing their lineage from Drucker’s MBOs to Andy Grove to today’s playbooks—and why they’re mismatched to modern, creative work. She introduces OHLs (Objectives, Hypotheses, Learnings) and a “puzzle setting/puzzle solving” culture that pushes teams to interrogate bad numbers, not hide them. Along the way she names common “product diseases” (HERO syndrome, obsessive sales disorder, pivotitis, strategic swelling, Narcissus complex) and shows how a clear, testable vision prevents whiplash pivots. A standout case study: at Signal Ocean, reframing the challenge for tech-averse users helped double sales in 2024 and again in 2025 while reducing churn from 26% to 4%. Leaders also get a practical script for better reviews (“How well is it working? What did we learn? What will we try next?”) and a reminder to build experimentation muscles before a crisis. The result is a rigorous, human approach to strategy that replaces vanity metrics with compounding learning.TakeawaysOKRs often reward optics over insight, encouraging “performance theater.”Use a concrete vision that states the problem, audience, status quo, desired end state, and product’s role.Shift from “hit the target” to puzzle setting so teams feel invited to solve the right problems.Run on OHLs: Objectives, Hypotheses, Learnings to measure deeply and learn publicly.Watch for “product diseases” like HERO syndrome, obsessive sales disorder, pivotitis, strategic swelling, and the Narcissus complex.Pivot with gravitas by stating what was wrong, what you learned, and what you’ll try next.Case study: at Signal Ocean, reframing for tech-averse users unlocked adoption, doubled sales year over year, and reduced churn.OKRs trace back to MBOs, which fit repetitive work but struggle with today’s creative, uncertain problems.Leaders should act like detectives, not judges to create psychological safety for honest learning.Introduce OHLs inside your current cadence before replacing existing processes.Spread market insight beyond the founder so teams can challenge assumptions and stay aligned.Start with the segment that has the most urgent need, then expand intentionally.Chapters00:00 Intro & Why Targets Mislead01:27 Radhika’s Path and Early Lessons03:41 Hitting Numbers vs. Reality on the Ground05:31 “Product Diseases” That Derail Strategy07:51 Writing a Vision You Can Execute09:49 The Wine Startup Example and Narcissus Complex13:07 Pivotitis and How to Pivot with Gravitas16:34 Translating Vision into Actionable Experiments17:44 Why Goals Alone Don’t Work20:03 A Short History of OKRs and Their Limits24:43 From Targets to Puzzles: Reframing Stalled Sales26:50 OHLs: Objectives, Hypotheses, Learnings29:14 Running Better Reviews: Three Questions35:31 Case Study: Signal Ocean’s Tech-Averse Users39:55 Outcomes: Doubling Sales and Reducing Churn41:58 Intel’s Lesson: Experimentation Beats Goal Mechanics47:58 Detectives, Not Judges: Building a Learning Culture50:06 How to Start Tomorrow with OHLs59:37 Don’t Do Founder Mode; Spread Insight01:03:18 Closing Notes & ResourcesRadhika Dutt’s Social Media Links:https://www.linkedin.com/in/radhika-dutt/Radhika Dutt’s Websites:https://www.radicalproduct.com/https://rdutt.com/Resources and Links:https://www.hireclout.comhttps://www.podcast.hireclout.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hirefasthireright

In this episode of The Tech Leader's Playbook, Avetis Antaplyan sits down with Dr. Reece Akhtar, CEO and founder of Deeper Signals — a leading organizational psychologist and data scientist helping companies unlock human potential through AI-powered talent insights. Together, they explore how the future of leadership is being shaped by behavioral science, soft skills, and the rise of AI in the workplace.Dr. Akhtar breaks down what defines high-caliber leaders today, emphasizing the evergreen traits of cognitive aptitude, emotional intelligence, curiosity, and execution. He shares powerful stories about helping a scaling company move from 200 to 1,000 employees while improving performance by 15–20% year-over-year by using data-driven assessments.Listeners will gain a practical blueprint for building talent-centric organizations, minimizing bias in hiring, and turning assessments into tools for onboarding, coaching, and long-term leadership development. This episode is packed with actionable advice for executives and founders who want to future-proof their organizations, hire and grow the right leaders, and create high-performing, cohesive teams in an AI-driven world.TakeawaysHigh-performing leaders share four traits: cognitive aptitude, emotional intelligence, curiosity, and the ability to execute.AI will amplify the need for collaboration, critical thinking, and creativity—not replace them.Psychometrics offer a data-driven way to reveal leadership potential beyond intuition.Assessments shouldn’t just filter candidates; they should inform onboarding and ongoing coaching.Structured interviews combined with assessments dramatically improve hiring accuracy.Data can act as a guardrail against unconscious bias in leadership selection.Building a talent-centric organization requires aligning culture, leadership development, and performance metrics.Cognitive diversity within teams often outperforms a single "A-player" approach.Over-indexing on charismatic leaders can be dangerous—look for competence, not charm.The five-factor model (OCEAN) is the most scientifically valid framework for personality assessments.Leaders should pause before reacting—self-awareness and emotional regulation are key."Just pause and listen" is Akhtar’s billboard advice for young leaders.Chapters00:00 Introduction: Why leadership needs data in the AI era01:35 What defines high-potential leaders today03:50 Evergreen traits: intelligence, EQ, curiosity, execution06:25 How psychometrics and AI reveal hidden potential09:05 Case study: Scaling from 200 to 1,000 employees with data-driven hiring13:10 Turning assessment data into onboarding and coaching tools17:00 The five-factor model (OCEAN) and its predictive power19:00 Limitations of assessments and human adaptability22:30 Combining interviews, references, and data for better hiring decisions27:50 Why resumes and unstructured interviews fall short29:50 Lessons from Dune: Avoiding the charismatic leader trap32:40 Using data to identify and mitigate bias in hiring36:15 Building a talent-centric organization and embedding values44:30 The importance of team fit and cognitive diversity47:15 Personal lessons: pausing before reacting as a leader48:30 Recommended reading: Social Physics by Sandy Pentland49:55 Closing advice: "Pause and listen" for young leaders51:00 Episode wrap-up and where to connect with Dr. AkhtarDr. Reece Akhtar’s Social Media Links:https://www.linkedin.com/in/reeceakhtar/Dr. Reece Akhtar’s Website:https://www.deepersignals.com/Resources and Links:https://www.hireclout.comhttps://www.podcast.hireclout.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hirefasthireright

In this episode of The Tech Leader's Playbook, Avetis Antaplyan sits down with Ari Galper, the world’s #1 authority on trust-based selling and creator of the One Call Sale methodology and Ari AI, an AI-powered sales coaching platform built on decades of proven frameworks. Together, they explore why traditional relationship-building and persuasion tactics often fail in today’s crowded marketplace—and what tech leaders can do instead.Ari shares how to transition from solution-centric pitching to problem-centric diagnosing, helping prospects see the cost of inaction before presenting a solution. He offers powerful language patterns and mindset shifts that compress long sales cycles into a single conversation, without pressure or chasing leads. Listeners will hear real-world stories, including Ari’s personal turning point that inspired him to build a global movement around truth and trust in sales.Whether you’re a founder, executive, or sales leader, this episode will help you rethink your approach to business growth—moving from transactional selling to creating deep trust that drives long-term success.TakeawaysTrust-building, not persuasion, is the foundation of modern sales.Stop selling pre-sale—diagnose problems first, like a doctor with a patient.The cost of inaction (COI) is critical: help prospects see the risk of staying with the status quo.Compressing the sales cycle into one call creates clarity and commitment without pressure.Relationship-building pre-sale often backfires; it can put you in the “friend zone.”Avoid using the phrase “follow-up”; ask for feedback instead to uncover the truth.Silence is a powerful tool—let prospects talk first and reveal their core issues.Clarity is the true value you provide, not your product demo or case studies.Create cultural change in sales teams by teaching trust-based frameworks, not scripts.Use trust-based language to keep prospects on your calendar and avoid chasing ghosts.Personal transparency and authenticity—like Ari’s lessons from his son Toby—make you more effective.Market to the problems you solve, not your solutions, to stand out in a noisy world.Chapters00:00 Intro & Why Trust-Based Selling Matters in Tech01:30 The Shift: From Product-Centric to Problem-Centric03:15 Cost of Inaction: The Real Sales Trigger04:55 The One Call Sale Framework Explained06:40 Trust vs. Relationship Building08:20 Real Story: Why “Great Meetings” Don’t Equal Sales10:40 Diagnosing Over Delivering: Coaching Case Study13:15 Ari’s Sales Call Script (Doctor Analogy Breakdown)15:00 The Birth of Ari AI and What Makes It Unique18:00 How Leaders Role-Play and Write Better Emails with AI20:00 Difference Between Fact-Finding and Trust Questions21:40 Never Use “Follow Up” Again Use This Instead24:30 Building Culture Without Falling into the Friend Zone26:20 Sales Teams Need Interventions, Not Programs28:00 Avoiding Bad Business: Qualifying for Urgency30:00 Ari’s Aha Moment: The Muted Sales Call That Changed Everything33:30 Why “Being Professional” Still Lost the Deal35:15 Favorite Book: 80/20 Sales & Marketing36:00 Why Ari Writes a New Book Every Quarter37:20 Writing Problem-Centric Cold Emails That Cut Through Noise39:00 Personal Wisdom from Ari’s Son, Toby40:10 Final Advice: Trust is the New CurrencyAri Galper’s Social Media Links:https://www.linkedin.com/in/arigalper/https://www.youtube.com/@ari_galperhttps://www.instagram.com/ari_galperhttps://x.com/arigalperAri Galper’s Website:https://unlockthegame.com/Resources and Links:https://www.hireclout.comhttps://www.podcast.hireclout.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hirefasthireright

In this episode of The Tech Leader's Playbook, Avetis Antaplyan sits down with Susan Ruediger, Founder and Chief Mission Officer of the CMT Research Foundation (CMTRF), and Laura MacNeill, the organization’s CEO. Together, they explore how patient-led research is revolutionizing drug development and catalyzing billion-dollar outcomes. Susan shares the remarkable story of CMTRF’s $128,000 seed investment in DTX Pharma that led to a $1 billion Novartis acquisition — a masterclass in strategic risk-taking and venture philanthropy. Laura explains how CMTRF’s unique “go-out-of-business” mission drives urgency, focus, and impact, while also inspiring other nonprofits to adopt similar models. The conversation dives deep into storytelling’s role in galvanizing donors, the importance of milestones and reinvestment, and how rare disease foundations can unlock breakthroughs for broader neurodegenerative diseases like ALS, Parkinson’s, and Alzheimer’s. Whether you’re a biotech leader, investor, or nonprofit executive, this episode offers actionable lessons on focus, partnerships, and creating outsized impact with limited resources.TakeawaysPatient-led research can de-risk and accelerate drug development.$128K seed funding led to a $1B Novartis acquisition.CMTRF uses a venture-philanthropy model with milestone-based funding.Mission: fund treatments, find a cure, close the foundation.Storytelling drives awareness, donations, and partnerships.Early investments keep promising science alive.Biotech partnerships share risk and leverage expertise.Novartis validated CMT as a major market opportunity.Rare disease focus offers faster FDA pathways.Staying laser-focused means saying no to distractions.Chapters00:00 Intro & Guest Welcome01:20 From Grassroots Donations to Billion-Dollar Deals02:30 Understanding CMT and Its Impact05:00 Finding the Right Delivery Vehicle for Drugs07:40 The $128K Bet That Changed Everything09:50 Other Success Stories & Market Signaling13:00 The Venture-Philanthropy Model Explained16:30 The Power of Milestones and Flexibility18:45 Reinvestment and Sustainable Funding21:30 Role of Storytelling and Strategy in Movement Building26:10 Velocity Campaign & Raising $20M27:25 Why Biotechs Care About Rare Diseases31:50 CMT as a Gateway Indication for Neurodegenerative Disease33:30 Staying Focused and Saying No38:30 The Drug Development Lifecycle and Staying Mission-Aligned42:10 How to Get Involved and Follow CMTRF’s Work45:10 Personal & Business Advice for Leaders48:30 Favorite Books and Final Thoughts52:00 Closing Remarks and Call to ActionSusan Ruediger’s Social Media Links:https://www.linkedin.com/in/susan-ruediger/Laura MacNeill’s Social Media Links:https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-macneill-m-b-a-97633732/CMT Research Foundation’s Website:https://cmtrf.org/Resources and Links:https://www.hireclout.comhttps://www.podcast.hireclout.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hirefasthireright

In this episode of The Tech Leader's Playbook, Avetis Antaplyan sits down with Andrew McVeigh, veteran technology leader and Chief Architect, whose career spans transformations at Hulu, Riot Games, and beyond. Andrew has navigated multi-billion-dollar shifts across industries from finance to gaming and healthcare, leaving behind architectures that still power companies today.The conversation dives deep into some of the most pressing questions in modern tech leadership: What matters most—EQ, IQ, or AI? Should organizations rebuild systems from scratch or evolve incrementally? Andrew shares candid stories, including lessons from Riot Games, the pitfalls of full rewrites, and the importance of balancing optimism with realism.Listeners will gain insight into how domain expertise and generalist skills complement one another, why EQ becomes more critical than IQ at senior levels, and how AI is reshaping engineering work without eliminating the need for human craft. Andrew also reflects on personal resilience, leadership missteps (like literally flipping a table), and the value of building systems and cultures that endure. This episode offers a rare inside look into decades of architectural wisdom and leadership lessons applicable to anyone guiding teams through complexity and changeTakeawaysEQ often outweighs IQ at senior leadership levels when managing large teams.Losing emotional control may feel satisfying in the moment but erodes long-term trust and outcomes.Generalists and specialists both play vital roles—large-scale architecture requires a mix of both.Domain expertise is valuable but shouldn’t be an absolute barrier to hiring strong engineers.Successful engineers learn to work at the level of intention rather than just tasks.Psychological safety fuels better performance and innovation in teams.AI augments, not replaces—engineers must learn to collaborate with it effectively.Craft and fundamentals (e.g., programming) remain essential even as AI automates repetitive work.The Pareto principle (80/20) applies broadly—focus on high-leverage outcomes, not perfection.Full rewrites often fail; incremental evolution with a defined “North Star” strategy is safer.Optimism in leadership can shift cultures and reframe challenges as opportunities.Balancing results with humanity ensures people want to work with you again.Chapters00:00 Intro: EQ, IQ, or AI?01:15 Guest Introduction: Andrew McVeigh’s career at Hulu, Riot Games, and more02:30 Industry Crossovers: From finance to gaming to healthcare04:10 Specialists vs. Generalists in large-scale systems05:20 The rising importance of EQ in leadership07:10 Riot Games culture and the “must be a gamer” debate11:20 What makes great engineers stand out13:40 Leadership, personal resilience, and the humanity factor17:50 How AI reshapes engineering work22:30 Applying the Pareto principle in tech leadership24:50 The rewrite dilemma: Start over or evolve?31:20 Preserving value while modernizing legacy systems36:10 Final thoughts: EQ, IQ, or AI? Andrew’s choice37:30 Book recommendations and sources of inspiration38:40 Closing advice: Attitude, optimism, and ownership39:45 Outro and how to connect with AndrewAndrew McVeigh’s Social Media Links:https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmcveigh/Andrew McVeigh’s Website:https://www.suvoda.com/Resources and Links:https://www.hireclout.comhttps://www.podcast.hireclout.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hirefasthireright

In this episode of The Tech Leader's Playbook, Avetis Antaplyan sits down with Chris Hallberg, entrepreneur, business coach, and former military and police leader, known for creating the Business Sergeant Leadership Philosophy. Chris brings decades of experience transforming teams, sharpening execution, and implementing EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) to help companies achieve breakthrough performance.From his formative years in the Army National Guard and law enforcement to his career as a sought-after business coach, Chris shares powerful insights into leadership, accountability, and the non-negotiables that separate thriving organizations from stagnant ones. He discusses why the best companies are unafraid to make tough personnel decisions, the importance of “re-enlisting” your team every 90 days, and how to kill problems decisively rather than admiring them in endless meetings.Listeners will hear candid stories from Chris’ journey, his philosophy on curating the right people in the right seats, and practical lessons from his book The Business Sergeant’s Field Manual: Military-Grade Business Execution Without the Yelling and Push-Ups. If you’re a leader looking to build elite teams, create accountability without politics, and drive results with clarity, this conversation is packed with strategies to elevate your leadership game.TakeawaysMilitary and police leadership taught Chris the value of learning from both the best and worst leaders—and applying those lessons to business.Elite teams are built by curating the right people, not trying to “fix” the wrong ones.Commitment is key: employees should symbolically “re-enlist” every 90 days to stay aligned with company goals.Healthy conflict is essential; if team members can’t speak the truth, accountability and results will collapse.Hiring should focus on slow-to-hire, quick-to-fire practices, supported by assessments that ensure cultural and role fit.Chris’ “three winners, three losers” framework highlights how keeping the wrong people hurts individuals, teams, and future opportunities.Middle managers (sergeants) are critical bridges between leadership and frontline teams; they must be empowered to hire and fire.Moving goalposts erode accountability—leaders must set clear deal breakers and stick to them.Compensation should reflect high expectations: hire in the 75th percentile, expect 90th percentile performance.Always be recruiting—maintain a pipeline of talent by networking, even with competitors’ top performers.New hires provide fresh perspectives; leaders should actively solicit feedback in their first weeks.Chapters00:00 Intro & Guest Welcome01:15 Lessons from Military & Police Leadership03:00 Commitment and Sacrifice in Team Building05:15 Applying Military Principles to Business Growth07:25 The 90-Day Re-Enlistment Concept09:30 Accountability and Volunteer Mindsets13:55 Curating the Right People vs. Fixing the Wrong Ones18:05 Decisiveness and Killing Problems Quickly21:20 The Fire Triangle and Root-Cause Problem Solving23:30 Healthy Conflict, Commitment, and Accountability28:20 Hiring Practices: Slow to Hire, Quick to Fire30:35 The Three Winners and Three Losers Framework35:15 Empowering Middle Managers (Sergeants)38:40 Lessons from The Business Sergeant’s Field Manual42:00 Getting to the Next Level with the Right Team44:15 Favorite Books and Closing Reflections46:00 Outro & Key TakeawaysChris Hallberg’s Social Media Links:https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-hallberg-01516315/https://www.facebook.com/chrishallberg09/Resources and Links:https://www.hireclout.comhttps://www.podcast.hireclout.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hirefasthireright

In this episode of The Tech Leader's Playbook, Avetis Antaplyan sits down with Michelle Niemeyer, a former high-powered attorney turned burnout expert, certified health coach, and creator of The Art of Bending Time. With 33 years in law and a personal journey of reinvention, Michelle shares her path from the pressures of litigation and entrepreneurship to becoming a sought-after advisor on sustainable leadership and resilience.The conversation dives into the pitfalls of chasing “work-life balance,” why multitasking drains focus, and how leaders can prevent burnout by fueling themselves physically, mentally, and emotionally. Michelle explains how her health challenges and professional burnout led her to develop frameworks that help leaders align their goals with what truly lights them up. From her innovative SWORD analysis for goal setting, to practical strategies for reclaiming focus and accepting help, Michelle offers actionable insights that challenge traditional productivity thinking.Leaders will come away with fresh perspectives on integrating personal and professional life, the hidden costs of micromanagement, and why bending time isn’t about managing minutes, but about living with purpose, clarity, and energy.TakeawaysBurnout often stems from chasing “work-life balance,” which can separate people from their whole selves.Leaders thrive when they integrate passions and strengths from different areas of life into their work.True productivity requires physical and mental health: quality sleep, nutrition, and consistent movement.The lymphatic system depends on physical activity — sitting too long allows toxins to build up.“Bending time” means focusing on what fuels you rather than squeezing more hours out of the day.Multitasking is a myth — it decreases focus, increases mistakes, and prolongs tasks.Removing notifications and delegating tasks clears mental space for deep, high-value work.Leaders must avoid micromanagement and trust their teams to develop and excel.The SWORD analysis (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, risks, and desire) emphasizes whether goals are truly worth pursuing.Accepting help is not a weakness; it builds connection and accelerates progress.Personal and professional networks can be blended intentionally to open new opportunities.Micro-moments of joy — a walk, a cup of coffee, or celebrating small wins — can prevent burnout more than long vacations.Chapters00:00 The myth of work-life balance00:39 Introducing Michelle Niemeyer: From law to burnout coach02:21 Early career in law and frustrations with the system04:34 Burnout and the dangers of “work-life balance”07:57 Bringing your whole self into work and life09:31 Health coaching, lifestyle changes, and the lymphatic system11:34 Discovering autoimmune disease and the shift to health coaching15:44 Creating The Art of Bending Time framework19:34 Micromanagement, delegation, and team empowerment22:10 Why notifications and constant availability hurt focus27:02 Rituals for winding down and mental clarity29:54 Clarity, joy, and finding sparks in daily life31:19 SWORD analysis explained and the role of desire35:11 Letting go of outdated or inherited goals38:44 Blending personal and professional networks43:05 The importance of asking for and accepting help49:48 Leadership, teamwork, and accountability50:56 Michelle’s favorite book and final reflections52:15 The power of daily sparks and micro-moments of joy56:28 Closing thoughts and community resourcesMichelle Niemeyer’s Social Media Links:https://www.instagram.com/michelle_niemeyer_wellness/Michelle Niemeyer’s Website:https://www.michelleniemeyer.com/Resources and Links:https://www.hireclout.comhttps://www.podcast.hireclout.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hirefasthireright

In this episode of The Tech Leader's Playbook, Avetis Antaplyan sits down with Mark Monchek, founder and Chief Opportunity Officer of Opportunity Lab. A seasoned author, speaker, and advisor, Mark has guided leaders from top global organizations through times of radical disruption. Drawing from his books Culture of Opportunity and the forthcoming Opportunity Intelligence, Mark shares how to unlock growth through collaboration, mindset shifts, and purpose-driven leadership.The conversation explores how leaders can thrive in chaos by embracing abundance over scarcity, building resilient networks, and identifying leverage points in times of upheaval. Mark recounts powerful stories—from rebuilding Asheville’s River Arts District after Hurricane Helene to transforming the Literacy Assistance Center’s resources through network mapping—that illustrate his belief in turning disruption into opportunity. The discussion also dives into cultivating generosity, forging unconventional partnerships (even with competitors), and the philosophy behind his upcoming “UnConference” for mid-market CEOs. This episode offers a compelling mix of history, personal resilience, and actionable strategies for leaders who want to create lasting impact in their organizations and communities.TakeawaysRadical disruptions impact all sectors simultaneously today, making adaptability more critical than ever.Leveraging networks can unlock hidden resources—often far more than organizations realize.Scarcity mindset limits growth; abundance mindset fosters collaboration and innovation.Crisis moments often accelerate trust, generosity, and community-building.Major innovations often emerge during economic downturns or crises.Partnerships—even with competitors—can expand capacity without adding overhead.Resilient leadership starts with finding a “place to stand” before taking action.Leaders should cultivate anti-fragility: emerging stronger after adversity.Most significant personal and professional growth comes from responding to challenges, not avoiding them.The UnConference model emphasizes peer-to-peer learning and authentic relationship-building.Storytelling and shared vision drive cooperation and collective success.Aligning business goals with a higher purpose strengthens resilience and motivation.Chapters00:00 Introduction and Mark Monchek’s background in business, art, and psychology03:35 Defining radical disruption and why today’s challenges are different05:24 Rebuilding Asheville’s River Arts District after Hurricane Helene09:18 Finding leverage points in crisis and innovation during downturns13:31 Case study: Unlocking hidden resources at the Literacy Assistance Center19:53 Generosity, abundance mindset, and building collaborative networks24:12 The UnConference model for authentic leadership connections34:19 Partnerships, resilience, and balancing priorities40:09 Lessons in resilience from family history and adversity46:29 Why the UnConference exists and the outcomes it aims to create53:31 Closing advice: Lead with purpose and embrace collaborationMark Monchek’s Social Media Links:https://www.linkedin.com/in/markmonchek/Mark Monchek’s Website:https://opplab.com/Resources and Links:https://www.hireclout.comhttps://www.podcast.hireclout.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hirefasthireright

In this episode of The Tech Leader's Playbook, Avetis Antaplyan sits down with Joel Benge, a strategist, author, and the mind behind "Message Therapy." With a rich and unconventional background that spans theater, video game testing, cybersecurity, and federal communications, Joel helps technical founders transform complex jargon into messaging that actually connects.Joel unpacks the biggest reason messaging falls flat: it’s too cerebral and not nearly human enough. Drawing from Aristotle, Maslow, and his own experience in government and tech startups, Joel introduces frameworks like his “Message Therapy” card deck, a tool that blends psychology, storytelling, and gamification to uncover the true heart of a brand.This episode is packed with actionable insights for founders, product marketers, and anyone tasked with explaining something complicated in a way that actually sticks.If you’ve ever felt like your messaging doesn’t land or sounds like everyone else, this conversation will help you find your voice, and your big idea.TakeawaysJoel Benge coined the term “Message Therapy” to help founders move from brainy jargon to emotionally resonant messaging.People don’t want more data — they want their problems taken away.Message Therapy uses Aristotle’s head, heart, and gut model to build trust, likability, and clarity.Joel’s background in theater and government communications gives him a unique edge in helping technical teams communicate effectively.Gamification (via his card deck) helps teams uncover buried insights through fast-paced, structured prompts.Most messaging fails because it skips emotion and leans too heavily on logic or technical credibility.One simple fix: print your website and highlight content using color codes for logic, emotion, and credibility to visually audit your message mix.Outsourcing marketing too early often leads to generic, disjointed messaging without a narrative backbone.Founders should fall in love with the problem they’re solving, not just the product they’re building.Creating a shared "mantra" can unify internal teams and external messaging across ICPs and channels.Emotional storytelling is just as important (if not more) in B2B and technical industries.True differentiation comes from listening deeply, reframing language, and uncovering the beliefs and values that drive your company.Chapters00:00 Intro: Meet Joel Benge & Message Therapy01:45 From Theater Kid to Homeland Security Comms04:30 Jargon vs. Real Communication in Tech05:50 The Birth of Message Therapy07:00 Why Most Marketing Sounds the Same08:30 Head, Heart, Gut: The Aristotle Framework10:15 How Gamification Helps Teams Get Aligned12:30 Why Jargon Kills Sales and Clarity14:00 The "Blank Stare" Effect in Messaging17:00 Role Clarity: Be the Peacock or the Expert18:00 Website Fix: Use Highlighters to Audit Copy19:45 The Curse of Knowledge Trap21:00 Why Outsourcing Messaging Can Backfire23:00 The Hidden Power of White Papers25:00 Building a Database of Messaging DNA26:45 Messaging for Multi-Sided Marketplaces28:30 Creating Mantras That Actually Stick29:45 Aha Moments That Unlock the Real Message31:00 Who “Be a Nerd That Talks Good” Is For32:30 Why Joel Created a Card Deck34:00 Personal Advice for Technical Leaders36:00 Sell the Result, Not the Feature38:00 Reclaiming Authority in the Age of AI39:30 Closing Thoughts & Where to Find JoelJoel Benge’s Social Media Links:https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelmbengehttps://www.instagram.com/joelmbengehttps://www.tiktok.com/@joelmbengeJoel Benge’s Website:https://messagespecs.com/link/Resources and Links:https://www.hireclout.comhttps://www.podcast.hireclout.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hirefasthireright

In this episode of The Tech Leader's Playbook, Avetis Antaplyan sits down with the legendary NFL coach and Hall of Famer, Dick Vermeil—a Super Bowl champion, Rose Bowl champion, and one of the most respected leaders in football history. Known for orchestrating one of the greatest turnarounds in NFL history with the St. Louis Rams, Coach Vermeil shares the leadership principles that drove his career—from the gridiron to the vineyards of Vermeil Wines.This episode dives deep into the human side of leadership: how to build authentic trust, lead with empathy while demanding excellence, and foster strong cultures even during losing seasons. Coach reflects on inviting players into his home, balancing tough decisions with personal care, and the power of connection in high-stakes environments. He also explores delegation, hiring with integrity, and adapting leadership in a remote, modern world.Whether you're leading a sports team or scaling a startup, Coach Vermeil’s timeless lessons on character, consistency, and heart will leave you rethinking what it means to lead well. Bonus: Don’t miss the story of how he transitioned from football to winemaking—and what it taught him about purpose after peak success.TakeawaysTrust is built through consistent, authentic care—not performance alone.Bringing team members into your personal life can strengthen professional commitment.Great leadership requires balancing high expectations with emotional intelligence.Delegation is essential for growth—you can’t scale by doing everything yourself.Culture is most important when you’re losing, not just when you’re winning.Business leaders should look beyond resumes to truly assess character and capability.Leadership isn’t just innate—it can be taught if someone has the desire to grow.Making tough personnel decisions is part of protecting the team’s greater mission.Even after retiring from football, purpose and service can evolve into new ventures.The best leaders continue learning, growing, and leading with integrity.Legacy is measured by the impact you have on others—often decades later.Chapters00:00 Welcome & Coach Vermeil’s Legendary Career02:45 Building Trust Through Authentic Care05:30 Balancing Tough Love and Compassion07:20 Handling Players Who Don’t Step Up10:30 Inviting Players Into His Home14:00 Why Relationships Deepen Commitment17:15 Delegation and Scaling Leadership20:15 Hiring, Referencing & Truth in Interviews24:45 Leading in a Remote World25:50 Is Leadership Innate or Teachable?28:35 Keeping Culture Strong During Losing Seasons33:00 From Gridiron to Vineyard: The Vermeil Wines Story41:00 The Hard Truth Leaders Must Hear46:00 Making Difficult Cuts with Compassion49:00 Coach’s Favorite Book & Final Wisdom51:00 Closing Remarks & Toast to LeadershipResources and Links:https://www.hireclout.comhttps://www.podcast.hireclout.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hirefasthireright