Ascend - The Great Books Podcast

Today we welcome Joshua Charles in the studio to talk about his new project Eternal Christendom, a preservation and revival of the Great Tradition for future generations. In this episode we will discuss:Wisdom from the Early Church FathersWho is Joshua Charles and hear his conversion storyHis political journey and how that has shaped his new projectWhat is Eternal Christendom and what is the visionSt. Augustine and true religionWant our whole guide to The Iliad? Download it for free.You can follow Joshua Charles on X and visit his website to find out more information.

Deacon Harrison Garlick welcomes Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson to the podcast to discuss Book 15 of The Iliad, The Achaean Armies at Bay.In this episode we will discuss:What happens in book fifteen?What is the relationship between men and the will of the gods in book fifteen? What else should be noted in book fifteen?You can follow Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson on X at @HootenWilsonWant our whole guide to The Iliad? Download it for free.67. What happens in book fifteen?Zeus, the father of gods and men, awakes to find the Trojans in full retreat (15.05). Poseidon is leading the Achaean charge, and Hector lays sprawled upon the ground (15.10). Zeus immediately blames Hera (15.18), and Hera denies any involvement with Poseidon’s actions (15.45). Zeus explains to Hera his plan in detail: Patroclus will fight, Hector will kill him, and Achilles will then kill Hector (15.80). The Achaeans will then push the assault until Troy falls (15.88). And Sarpedon—Zeus’ own son—will be sacrificed to bring about this fate (15.84). Zeus, via Hera, sends Iris to tell Poseidon to “quit the war and slaughter” and return to the sea (14.210). Poseidon eventually obeys (15.251). Zeus, via Hera, sends Apollo to rally the Trojans and gives Apollo his storm-shield (15.272). Apollo heals Hector and the two lead a Trojan assault against the Argives (15.302). The Achaeans panic (15.385) and “clambered back in a tangled mess” (15.405). Meanwhile, Patroclus was still tending to the wounded Eurypylus when the new Trojan assault spurs him to return to Achilles (15.470). Giant Ajax forms a phalanx, a “wall of bronze,” to stop Hector from burning the Achaean ships (15.657). The defense fails, yet Giant Ajax carries on jumping from ship to ship with an “enormous polished pike for fights at sea” (15.787). Hector calls for fire to burn the ships (15.832), and the book ends with Ajax fighting off the hordes—having “impaled” twelve Trojans thus far (15.866). 68. What is the relation between men and the will of the gods in book fifteen?A predominant theme in Homer and a perennial question throughout many of the great books is the relationship between the human will and the divine. In book fifteen, Thoas, an Achaean, is able to discern Zeus is favoring Hector; thus, he counsels Giant Ajax to call a “withdraw to the ships” (15.349). We receive yet another example of interpreting what should be done by reading the will of the gods in earthly affairs. Homer provides us a unique example of interpreting the divine will when Zeus lets loose a crack of thunder in response to Nestor’s prayer—but the Trojans interpret it in favor of them (15.445). In fact, Hector tells us it is “easy to see what help Zeus lends to mortals” (15.570). Homer invites us to consider what irony Hector’s statement bears by revealing later that as Zeus glorifies Hector, Athena is already preparing his death (15.712). On the matter of burning the Achaean ships, Hector himself acknowledges that at times Zeus “blinds” men to a certain purpose and then later “drives” them to it (15.840). How men are supposed to know what the gods will for them—amongst such capricious gods or gods that disagree with each other—is a question raised by Homer and later taken up by Plato. 69. What else should we observe in book fifteen?The story of Zeus stringing up Hera with two anvils hanging from her legs (15.24) is the same story referenced in the first book in which Zeus throws Hephaestus—who had tried to help his mother—off Mount Olympus (Question 13). The details Zeus provides of his plan to orchestrate Achilles’ glory and the fall of Troy is a more detailed version of the earlier “doom of Zeus” (8.551). Homer introduces us to the goddess “Themis,” who represents “established law and custom” (15.117). As observed earlier (Question 31), we are provided another example of Ares representing rage and impudence, while Athena tempers him by wisdom and good counsel—and a bit of strength (15.140). Athena’s observation, however, that Zeus’ rage would consume both guilty and innocent gods alike is reminiscent of Patroclus’ observation that Achilles’ rage would cause him to accuse a friend without fault (Question 56). One may ponder in what ways Zeus and Achilles are similar. One is left to wonder what change occurred in Poseidon, as he shifted from one who told Hera he would not war against Zeus (8.239) to one who boasts to Iris he is a peer of Zeus (15.222)—though the sea god does acquiesce to Zeus’ command (15.251). The importance of a shield is a theme for Homer, and here we see clearly that bearing the shield of another makes you an emissary of the owner—as Apollo is for Zeus (15.272). It is somewhat notable that Prince Paris actually uses a spear (15.401). Observe that Apollo, who is quite eager to tear down what remains of the Achaean rampart (Question 59), uses the opportunity of leading the Trojan charge to do a bit of just that (15.425). Once again, Hector would have died save for Zeus’ intervention (15.539). It is interesting to compare our review of piety with Nestor’s exhortation to the Achaeans to fight for the sake of your parents—even if they are dead (15.769).

Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan welcome Thomas Lackey back to the podcast to discuss Book 14 of The Iliad, Hera Outflanks ZeusIn this episode we will discuss:What happens in book fourteen?What are we to make of Love and Sleep conquering Zeus?Why is this one of the funniest books thus far (according to Adam)?What else should be noted in book fourteen?Want our whole guide to The Iliad? Download it for free.Book FourteenHera Outflanks ZeusAnd so, deep in peace, the Father slept on Gargaron peak,Conquered by Sleep and the strong assault of Love.  Homer (14.419)64. What happens in book fourteen?Nestor, who was still tending to the injured Machaon, leaves his tent and, upon seeing the ruined wall of the Achaeans, goes to find Agamemnon (14.27). Nestor finds the wounded Agamemnon alongside the also wounded Odysseus and Diomedes (14.34). Agamemnon again despairs and orders the Achaean to prepare to sail home (14.90), and he is chastised by Odysseus who calls him a “disaster” (14.102). Diomedes counsels the wounded kings to return to battle but inspire the soldiers from behind the front lines (14.158). Poseidon inspires Agamemnon and the sea god lets out a cry as loud as “nine, ten thousand combat soldiers” to strengthen the Achaeans (14.182). Meanwhile, Hera, wanting to run interference for Poseidon, plots “to make immortal love” with Zeus and lure him into a deep sleep (14.199). She lies to Aphrodite about her motives, and receives from the goddess of love a band with the power to “make the sanest man go mad” (14.261). Hera next enlists the god Sleep to help her overpower Zeus (14.279) by promising him one of the younger Graces to marry (14.323). Hera seduces Zeus, and the father of gods and men is conquered by love and sleep (14.420). Sleep tells Poseidon of Zeus’ slumber, and the sea god leads the Achaeans against the Trojans (14.430, 456). Ajax and Hector clash on the front lines, and Ajax lifts a “holding-stone”—a large stone used to anchor a ship—and strikes Hector (14.486). Hector “plunged in the dust” (14.494) and was taken back to Troy by his comrades (14.509). The retreat of Hector rises the Achaean battle-lust (14.520), and they push back against the Trojans until “the knees of every Trojan shook with fear” (14.592). Homer ends the book with an invocation to the Muses—the 5th invocation—as Poseidon shifts the favor of war to the Achaeans (14.596). 65. What are we to make of Love and Sleep conquering Zeus?To overcome Zeus, the father of gods and men, Hera must employ two powers: Love and Sleep. Hera avers that Love may “overwhelm all gods and mortal men” (14.242). Moreover, in the band of Love that Aphrodite gives Hera, it is said “the world lies in its weaving” (14.265). Similarly, Hera calls Sleep, the “twin brother of Death,” the “master of all gods and all mortal men” (14.279). She makes a similar statement about Night, stating: “old Night that can overpower all gods and mortal men” (14.312). Homer explicitly tells us that Zeus was “conquered by Sleep and the strong assaults of Love” (14.420). The conquering of Zeus raises questions as to the power and role of these more primordial gods. Homer does not present his reader with a clear relation or history between these personifications of primal power and the Olympian gods; however, the Greek poet Hesiod, who lived after Homer in the 700s BC, composed a genealogy of the gods called Theogony. Though he lived after Homer, Hesiod, like Homer, is weaving together longstanding traditions in Greek mythology into one coherent whole. For Hesiod, the world starts with the primordial gods of Chaos, then Earth (Gaia), then Abyss (Tartarus), and then Love (Eros). Pertinent to our passage in Homer, Chaos gives birth to Night, and then Night gives birth to Doom, Fate, Death, Sleep, and Dreams. The mythologies of Homer and Hesiod do not always agree. For example, Homer presents Aphrodite with a mother, while Hesiod presents her as a spontaneous generation of Uranus’ genitals being tossed into the sea by Cronos. Regardless, Hesiod provides a critical insight into the more primordial gods of Love and Sleep in relation to gods of Mount Olympus. One may posit, however, that Zeus is not conquered, as his will endures despite the efforts of Hera, Love, and Sleep. On the contrary, one may suggest that the fall of Zeus to Love and Sleep reveals that Zeus is in a manner subject to the more primordial gods and this would include Fate. We return to the question of whether Zeus is subject to a nameless Fate or such a Fate is simply an alter ego of his (Question 46). 66. What else should be noted in book fourteen?It is noteworthy that Nestor must use his son’s shield, as his “boy used his father’s” (14.12). Such familial themes will become more prominent in Homer’s Odyssey. We should note Poseidon is now doing what Hera tempted him to do previously (8.239). One may observe that Hera convinces Sleep to aid her by offering him a love-interest while she wears Aphrodite’s band (14.323). Given the theme of corpses and proper burials, Homer presents a corpse trade between the armies (14.552). We end with an invocation to the Muses, as Homer praises the god of earthquakes, i.e., the sea god Poseidon, for “turning the tide” (14.597).

Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan welcome Thomas Lackey back to the podcast to discuss Book 13 of The Iliad, Battling for the ShipsIn this episode we will discuss:What happens in book thirteen?How does the story of Asius end?Why Adam is frustrated with this book and why it's Dcn. Garlick's least favorite so far.What else should be noted in book thirteen?Want our whole guide to The Iliad? Download it for free.Zeus, Father Zeus, they say you excel all others… all men and gods, in wisdom clear and call—but all this brutal carnage comes from you. - King Menelaus (13.727)64. What happens in book thirteen?Father Zeus, believing that the deathless gods will not violate his strict decree to not interfere with the Trojan war, turns his attention “a world away to the land of the Thracian horsemen” (13.06). Poseidon seizes this opportunity to help the Achaeans. He blesses the Aeantes (13.74) and whips up the fighting strength of the whole Argive army (13.112). Battalions are formed around the Aeantes, and they war against Hector and his Trojans (13.149). Meanwhile, the two Achaeans, Idomeneus and Meriones, rush to the left flank where the Argives are suffering the most (13.363, 80). Poseidon continues to secretly war against the will of Zeus by spurring on the Achaeans against the Trojans (13.408). Idomeneus, the Achaean, crushes the Trojan Asius (13.452) and Alcathous (13.512) on the left flank. In return, Aeneas, the son of Aphrodite, arrives to bolster the Trojans and both sides clash around the corpse of the Trojan Alcathous (13.575). Menelaus, the Spartan King, squares off with Helenus, the Trojan prophet (13.672). Helenus’ arrow bounces off the Achaean war-lord’s breastplate (13.679), but Menelaus’ spear goes through Helenus’ first (13.686)—and his Trojan campions drag him away from the battlefield for care (13.687). While the Argives hold the left flank, Hector, favored by Zeus, continues to collide against the Achaeans, blessed by Poseidon, back where Hector smashed the gate (13.785). Polydamas advises Hector to regroup, warning Hector that he has been blessed to fighting power but not necessarily in tactics (13.841). Hector listens, and he goes to recall his warlords (13.873). Hector finds Paris and the carnage that the Trojans suffered on the left flank (13.884). The two princes rejoin the main force at the broken gate, but the Achaeans are immovable under the leadership of giant Ajax (13.935). Ajax taunts Hector that the Trojans will be forced to retreat soon, and a bird-omen appears to confirm his words (13.948). Hector returns the taunt, and both sides prepare for another Trojan charge (13.951). 65. How does the story of Asius end?We met Asius charging his chariot into the Achaean wall and—as the attempt fails—calling Zeus a liar (Question 60). In book thirteen, Idomeneus spears Asius in the throat with the tip “ripping” through the nape of his neck (13.450). Later, Asius’ son, Adamas, is speared by Meriones “between the genitals and the naval—[a] hideous wound, the worst the god of battles deals to wretched men” (13.657). Homer describes him as “hugging the shaft he writhed, gasping, shuddering (13.660). Given the manner of their deaths, one is left inclined that Asius has brought the doom of Zeus upon himself by his own words. 66. What else should be noted in book thirteen?Despite his prowess on the battlefield, it is notable that giant Ajax does not immediately recognize Poseidon in the guise of Calchas (13.85). Poseidon calls Achilles a “worthless coward.” (13.139). Homer presents another good description of the phalanx (13.154). Teucer, an archer thus far, is shown to successfully use a spear (13.211). One may question whether the brutality of the war is increasing, as we see little Ajax toss the head of a dead Trojan at the feet of Hector (13.242). We see another practical import of stripping the bodies of their loot, as Meriones is able to replace his broken spear with one of the many Trojan spears stored by Idomeneus (13.309). One recalls the marriage offer of Agamemnon’s daughter to Achilles, as Idomeneus offers Agamemnon’s “loveliest daughter” in sarcasm to the dead Othryoneus (13.422). Homer presents a comparison between Ares who is aloof and unaware his son has even died (13.602) with Poseidon who actively aids the Achaeans, like Antilochus (13.642). Menelaus, like his brother (9.142), understands that the present “brutal carnage” comes from Zeus, and that Zeus is favoring the Trojans (13.729). We are introduced to the Achaean Euchenor who, like Achilles, was able to choose his fate: die fighting at Troy or die of a plague at home (13.764). Finally, it is not unremarkable that Homer uses the imagery of storm pounding the seas to describe the Trojans—backed by the storm god, Zeus—clashing against the Achaeans—backed by the sea god, Poseidon (13.920). 

Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan welcome Thomas Lackey and David Niles to discuss Book 12 of The Iliad, The Trojans Storm the Rampart.In this episode we will discuss:Our Sunday Great Books group.What is the issue with the gods and the wall of the Achaeans?What should we make of the story of Asius?What should we make of Hector disregarding the bird-sign?What else should be observed in book 12?Want our whole guide to The Iliad? Download it for free.Bird-signs! Fight for your country—that is the best, the only omen! - Hector (12.280)58. What happens in book twelve? As many of the Achaean warlords lay injured, Hector leads his onslaught against the Greek defenses (12.05). The Achaean ships are surrounded by a rampart, a thick wood wall, with a wide trench in front (12.05). The Trojan Polydamas advises Hector that the sharp stakes in the trench and narrowness of openings in the rampart make chariot-warfare impossible (12.72). The Trojans dismount and break into five battalions to assault the Achaean wall (12.105). Hector leads the charge against the rampart, as Zeus whips up a dust storm to aid the Trojan siege (12.292). The Achaeans have blocked the rampart gates with “ox-hide shields,” (12.305), they have gathered heavy stones to crush their enemies (12.438), and they have the two Aeantes, i.e., Giant and Little Ajax, helping to defend the wall (12.307). Sarpedon, driven by his father, Zeus, leads his Trojan battalion against the rampart (12.340). Homer writes: “And Sarpedon clawing the rampart now with powerful hands, wrenched hard and the whole wall came away, planks and all” (12.460). He “made a gaping breach for hundreds” (12.463). The Achaean archer Teucer hits Sarpedon with an arrow, but Zeus ensures it is not a fatal hit (12.467). The armies crash with neither gaining ground (12.485) until Zeus gives Hector the glory (12.507). Hector lifts a boulder no two men could easily lift (12.519) and, amongst the chaos of the clashing forces, throws the boulder at the Achaean gate (12.532). The gate shatters, and Hector “bursts through in glory” (12.537). He cries, “the wall, storm the wall!” (12.544) The book ends as the Trojans swarm through the wall and the Argives “scatter back in terror” (12.547).59. What is the issue with the gods and the wall of the Achaeans?The opening of the book returns to the fact the Achaeans did not give the deathless gods their due sacrifice when they made their rampart (12.07). Recall that Poseidon and Apollo, who helped build the Trojan walls (Question 42), are offended that the Achaean walls may receive more glory. Homer then shifts into the future when Troy has fallen and tells us that Poseidon and Apollo (with some help from Zeus) will destroy the Achaean wall and set everything right (12.41). The Achaeans forgetting to exercise their proper piety toward the gods and thus omitting a due sacrifice is a poor habit that should be noted for future reference. 60. What should we make of the story of Asius?Homer gives us the curious narrative of Asius, a Trojan ally and leader, who refuses to leave his chariot when all the other Trojans form into battalions to assault the Achaean wall (12.132). As Homer writes: “Straight at the gates he lashed his team, hell-bent, his troops crowding behind him shouting war cries” (12.146). The assault fails. Asius calls Zeus a liar—presumably because he knew that Zeus had given the Trojans the glory but did not think that only two Achaeans—the “lionhearted of Lapith”—could hold the gate (12.153). The error of Asius seems twofold: first, breaking ranks with Hector, favored by Zeus; and two, presuming that the glory of being the first to breach the wall was attainable and not one reserved by Zeus for Hector (12.507). His tactical error is, at heart, a theological one: an inability to read the gods well. 61. What should we make of Hector disregarding the bird-sign? After the folly of Asius but before the Trojan battalions assault the wall, the Trojans see another bird-sign, an omen (12.231). The Trojan Polydamas warns the omen is a sign from Zeus not to engage the Argives at their ships—and if they do, the Argives will slaughter the Trojans all the way back to the walls of Troy (12.249). Hector provides a somewhat famous response: “Bird-signs! Fight for your country—that is the best, the only omen!” (12.280) One may compare his response to his earlier unquestioning obedience to the bird-sign that recalled him to Troy to arrange a sacrifice to Athena (Question 35). Any perspective here that attempts to present Hector as trusting in the power of men over the gods (i.e., human capacity over superstition) seems unsupported by the text. Note that Hector disregards the bird-sign as an omen from Zeus, because he believes he knows the will of Zeus (12.272). No doubt this is a reference to the message from Iris in book eleven (11.217). In sum, Hector tells Polydamas to not be a coward and trust “in the will of might Zeus” (12.278). The issue here is not trusting in human ability over the divine, but rather how to interpret the divine will. 62. What else should be observed in book twelve?The speech of Sarpedon to Glaucus prior to storming the wall provides a quick insight into the ancient concept of duty (12.359). Sarpedon lists how he and Glaucus enjoy grand estates and other kingly benefits from their people; thus, it is now their duty to throw themselves into the “blaze of war” (12.367). In sum, they have a duty to win glory that justifies their kingly lives (12.372). In contrast to the perspective of the ruler, we see the perspective of the ruled in Polydamas’ comment to Hector: “Never right, is it, for a common man to speak against you, King… our part is always to magnify your power” (12.247). As such, book twelve provides some material to discern the mindset of the ruler and ruled in ancient Greek culture. Also, if we recall the question of how strong is the Trojan army without divine intervention (Question 44), note that not even Hector and his Trojans could have breached the wall unless Zeus first sent in his son, Sarpedon, to breach it (12.337). Finally, recall too the theme of how the Iliad depicts warfare (Question 27), and note that Homer mentions the Trojans forming a phalanx to storm the Achaean wall (12.514).63. Halfway through the Iliad, what the major themes or motifs we should be tracking?The major themes and motifs that we should be observing throughout the Iliad are as follows:The rage of Achilles and how the request of Thetis to Zeus structures the narrative;The invocation to the Muses and why they are invoked; The role of the “nameless fate” and whether it is distinguishable from Father Zeus; The freedom of man, if any, in relation to the will of the gods and/or fate;The importance of burying the dead with proper rituals (and what denying that means);The comparison between Achilles and Hector and Homer’s intent in doing so (arete);The importance of guest-friendship (xenia) amongst the ancient Greeks; The character of Odysseus and what we are to make of the famous tactician; andThe subtle theme of shields and what it means to bear the shield of another in battle.We continue to turn toward Homer the teacher to unfurl these themes and provide us insights not just into his characters but into human nature as a whole.

Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan sit down to talk about Book 11 of the Iliad, Agamemnon's Day of Glory.In this episode we will discuss:What happens in Book 11?What should be noted about Patroclus?What should be noted about Peleus' command to Patroclus?What else should be observed in book 11?Want our whole guide to The Iliad? Download it for free.Achilles will listen to you—for his own good. So the old man told you. You’ve forgotten. - Nestor to Patroclus (11.943)55. What happens in book eleven?Dawn has finally arisen from her bed (11.01). To welcome the new day, Zeus sends the goddess Strife to the Achaean camp (11.03), and the goddess releases a “high-pitched cry, great and terrible” that drives the Achaeans “mad for war and struggle” (11.14). Agamemnon rallies the Achaeans and Hector the Trojans, as Zeus rains blood from the sky (11.62) and Strife continues her “wild groans” (11.84). Following Diomedes advice to fight on the front lines (9.865), Agamemnon leads the Argives on a bloody warpath against the Trojans (11.107). Agamemnon slaughters his enemies—including one Trojan who Agamemnon cuts off his head and arms and, as Homer says, sends him “rolling through the carnage like a log” (11.170). Zeus sends Iris to tell Hector to stay off the front lines and command his men from the back until Agamemnon is wounded—then Zeus will bless Hector to lead a counteroffensive all the way back to the Achaean ships (11.217). After Agamemnon is wounded and retreats (11.310), Hector pushes the Achaeans all the way back to their rampart (11.330). One by one the Achaean warlords—Diomedes (11.443), Odysseus (11.515), and Machaon the healer (11.598)—are all injured and retreat. Great Ajax desires to hold his ground but is forced to retreat by Zeus (11.638). Still by his ship, Achilles watches the onslaught and tells Patroclus he thinks the Achaeans are ready to “grovel at his knees” (11.719). Achilles sends Patroclus to Nestor for advice (11.722), and Nestor tells Patroclus that Achilles should at least let Patroclus lead the Myrmidons into battle wearing Achilles’ armor (11.951). Patroclus leaves to return to Achilles but stops to assist an Achaean suffering from an arrow wound (11.1001). The book ends with Patroclus caring for his fellow solider, and the foretold “doom of Zeus” about the body of Patroclus inches closer (8.551).56. What else should be noted about Patroclus?Of important note is how Patroclus speaks of Achilles to Nestor (11.773). He states that Achilles is a “great and terrible man” and would “leap to accuse a friend without fault” (11.774). It is not the language one would expect from Patroclus, the “great friend” of Achilles (Question 49). We are told that Nestor was part of the group of Achaeans who went to the house of Peleus seeking recruits for the Trojan war (11.916). Peleus tells his son, Achilles, to “always be the best, my boy, the bravest, and hold your head up high above the others,” which is the exact same advice given the Glacus by his father except it lacks the exhortation to “never disgrace the generation of your fathers” (6.247). Whether Homer is inviting a comparison here is a matter of some discussion. We should note well Peleus’ command to Patroclus to counsel Achilles, and that Achilles will listen to him (11.940). Amongst all the rage of Achilles, we have little evidence of Patroclus playing the role of counselor or attempting to diffuse the situation. Nestor critiques Patroclus that he has forgotten his role as counselor to Achilles (11.943). One may hold that Achilles sitting by his ships as the Achaeans are slaughtered is evidence, at least in part, of the failed mission of Patroclus.57. What else should be observed in book eleven? One might expect that Hector would balk a bit at being told to stay off the from lines (11.237), but he does not despite his habit of leading from the front. We could attribute this to his piety toward the gods, especially Zeus, or more critical voices would recall that he’s slunk to the back before (5.540). It is most notable that Homer invokes the Muses again (11.253). This fourth invocation seems to illuminate the importance of Agamemnon leading the charge against the Trojans. We may observe that Hector is once again saved by the gods, as Diomedes’ spear hits him in the head but does not penetrate his helmet (11.414, 427). Paris stays true to his character, as he first gloats over shooting Diomedes in the foot—after leaping out of his “hiding place” (11.446)—and then shoots the Achaean healer, Machaon (11.598). It should be noted that Odysseus, who has been criticized in the past for strategically holding back, is left alone against the Trojans, and he holds his ground well like a “wild boar” against a circle of hunters (11.473, 491). Hector, despite knowing he has the favor of Zeus, stays away from Giant Ajax (11.638)—apparently still wary from their last duel (Question 41). Old man Nestor, who is the link to an older more glorious age, is shown being able to lift a cup with “ease” that the average man would “strain to lift off the table” (11.751). Nestor, who has a penchant for telling stories about himself, shares that Heracles (or Hercules) killed all eleven of his brothers (11.820). Nestor ending his testimony with “so, such was I in the ranks of men… or what it all a dream?” (11.908) is certainly worthy of some consideration.

Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan sit down to talk about Book 10 of the Iliad, Marauding Through the Night.In this episode we will discuss:What happens in Book 10?Hector calls for a spy.Diomedes goes on a rampageWhat else should be observed in book 10?Want our whole guide to The Iliad? Download it for free.53. What happens in book ten?Agamemnon cannot sleep (9.04). He is tormented by the thousand fires of the Trojans camped around his black ships (10.14), and he tears “his hair out by the roots” (10.18). He dresses for war and leaves his tent—only to run into his brother, Menelaus, who is also unsettled (10.30). Menelaus gives Agamemnon the idea of sending out spies against the Trojans (10.45). After waking the other Achaean warlords, Agamemnon holds a war council in which Nestor proposes someone should infiltrate the Trojans (10.241). Diomedes volunteers and selects Odysseus to go with him (10.284). Meanwhile, amongst the Trojans, Hector also calls for a spy, and the warrior Dolon, an ugly but fast fellow (10.369), agrees to go (10.366). In the black of night and out in the no man’s land between the armies, Odysseus sees Dolan running, and Odysseus and Diomedes hide amongst the corpses as Dolan goes past at a “dead run” (10.409). The two Achaeans capture Dolon who, in turn, blurts out every detail he knows about the Trojan encampment (10.478, 493) under the assumption he will be taken captive (10.511). Diomedes then decapitates Dolon and his “shrieking head went tumbling in the dust” (10.327). Odysseus and Diomedes elect to attack an outpost described by Dolon, a group of Thracian warriors in league with Troy (10.501, 535). Athena blesses Diomedes (10.557), and he slaughters thirteen Thracians in their sleep—including their king (10.571). Apollo wakes a Thracian who sounds the alarm, and Odysseus and Diomedes ride the slain king’s magnificent horses back to the Achaean camp (10.631). The book ends with Odysseus and Diomedes, now bathed and seated for a meal, pouring out a libation to Athena, the goddess who watches over them (10.670).54. What else should be observed in book ten?Agamemnon believes he and Menelaus should do the work of waking up the lesser warlords themselves (10.80); and, similarly, Diomedes notes that it is Nestor, not some younger solider, that has awakened him (10.195). One may interpret this to show the gravity of the situation and the ownership the higher Achaean warlords are exhibiting in this moment. Notice that Nestor unfairly critiques Menelaus for sleeping (10.134), and Agamemnon corrects Nestor but not without stating that Menelaus does tend toward inaction (10.139). Agamemnon’s critique of his brother seems contrary to the pattern we have observed of Menelaus being quick to volunteer for some danger and Agamemnon drawing him back. Given the role of archers in the Iliad, it is notable that Homer reveals that Odysseus carries a bow (10.304). In book ten (and eleven), Homer will utilize a great deal of animal similes and imagery. One may note that many of the characters in book ten bear an animal hide, e.g., Agamemnon’s lion hide (10.27), Menelaus’ leopard hide (10.34), Diomedes’ lion hide (10.209), and Dolon’s wolf pelt and weasel cap (10.390). One is left to discern what lesson, if any, Homer intends here. Finally, book ten shows a certain comradery between Diomedes and Odysseus who are both cared for by Athena. One could assert that the two Achaean reflect the two general traits of Athena: her military tactics in Odysseus and her raw martial prowess in Diomedes. It should be noted, however, that Odysseus will later show his military prowess, and Diomedes has already proven himself to be a counselor (i.e., his bookend speeches in book nine). We could debate the degrees of these traits in both men, but overall they both seems to reflect the primary aspects of the goddess of wisdom.

Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan sit down to talk about the embassy to Achilles in Book 9.In this episode we will discuss:What happens in book nine?Who is Phoenix?What is the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus?What effect does the embassy have on Achilles?What else should be noted in the embassy to Achilles?Want our whole guide to The Iliad? Download it for free.Book NineThe Embassy to AchillesBut now at last, stop, Achilles—let your heart-devouring anger go!Odysseus (9.307)47. What happens in book nine?Night has fallen. As the Trojans set their watch, the Achaeans are distraught and panicked (9.02). King Agamemnon despairs and tells his men to sail home (9.31). After a long silence, Diomedes tells Agamemnon to “sail away” (9.49), but Diomedes and company will stay and fight until the “fixed doom of Troy” occurs (9.56). Nestor, the old Achaean war chief, exhorts Agamemnon to have the night sentries take their posts (9.76) and to throw a feast of “grand hospitality” for his senior chieftains (9.80). Agamemnon obeys and, at the feast, Nestor appeals to Agamemnon to make peace with Achilles (9.122). Agamemnon again follows Nestor’s lead. He sends Odysseus, Ajax, and Phoenix (9.201) with the promise that Agamemnon will return Briseis to Achilles along with hordes of treasure and more treasure to come when Troy falls (9.146).The embassy finds Achilles playing the lyre by his ships (9.222). Achilles greets them warmly and each member of delegation attempts to convince Achilles to return to the war and save the Argives. But Achilles still harbors an undying rage against Agamemnon, stating: “I hate that man like the very Gates of Death” (9.379). Agamemnon has wounded the honor of Achilles and no gifts can undo that fact (9.470). Achilles even tells Odysseus that Agamemnon can keep and enjoy Briseis (9.407). The heart of Achilles “still heaves with rage” (9.789), and he will not even think of “arming for bloody war again” until Hector has slaughtered the Argives all the way to his own ship (9.795). The embassy reports back to Agamemnon and, as they were all “struck dumb,” Diomedes rallies the chieftains and tells Agamemnon to fight on the front lines tomorrow (9.865). The Achaeans, who are stirred by the speech, make their offerings to Zeus and go to sleep awaiting the dawn (9.866).48. Who is Phoenix? Phoenix, an Achaean, was charged by Peleus, Achilles’ father, to train Achilles in war and rhetoric (9.533). Regarding his own background, Phoenix tells the story of sleeping with his father’s concubine, at his mother’s request, and his father finding out (9.549). Phoenix runs away from home, and Peleus welcomes him into his home as a son (9.583). One may observe the similarity that Phoenix’s past and Achilles’ present both hinge on a concubine or slave-girl. Phoenix claims to Achilles: “I made you what you are—strong as the gods… I loved you from the heart” (9.587). He expresses his love for Achilles, as a man who knew he’d never have his own son (9.595). In fact, he leverages this into an argument stating: “I made you my son, I tried, so someday you might fight disaster off my back” (9.600). He then gives an explanation of the Prayers of Zeus, personified, who “heal the wounds of mankind” (6.117). The explicit appeal to family and then to the gods (to save his people) invites another comparison between Achilles and Hector—whose piety toward family, polis, and the gods was on display in book six. Phoenix’s appeal to the ancient story of Meleager is such a close parallel to Achilles’ current situation that it is believed to be a Homeric invention (9.646). Despite his appeal that the Achaeans will honor Achilles “like a god” (9.734), Achilles only sees Phoenix as currying favor of Agamemnon (9.748). Though he rejects his arguments, Achilles invites Phoenix to spend the night with him and discern leaving for home in the morning (9.755).49. What is the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus? Homer presents Patroclus as the “great friend” of Achilles (9.246). Similar to Phoenix, Patroclus was a runaway who found refuge in the house of King Peleus, Achilles’ father. Peleus assigned Patroclus as the personal attendant to the slightly younger Achilles, and this subservient relation between the “great friends” is notable in book nine (9.242, 246, 263, et al.). Homer does not at any point, however, present Achilles and Patroclus as homosexual lovers. It is a popular modern read of the text, but such a read cannot be reduced to simply a modern ideological rewrite—the idea that Achilles and Patroclus are homosexuals is an ancient one. Though completely absent from Homer, the idea that Achilles and Patroclus were lovers was popular over four hundred years after Homer in the classical Greek era. In that time, homosexuality and pederasty had become popular amongst the aristocratic class in Greece. The playwright Aeschylus (c. 525 B.C.) wrote a play, now lost, that presented the two Achaeans as homosexual lovers. The playwright is referenced by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium, and Phaedrus also presents Achilles and Patroclus as lovers. What happened in Greek culture between Homer and Plato to popularize homosexuality (including pederasty) in Greek culture is a matter of some debate, but it may align with the advent of the reworked cult of Dionysus.It is also noteworthy that the classical Greek scholar on Homer and first librarian of the famous library at Alexandria, Zenodotus (c. 330 B.C.), held that presenting Achilles and Patroclus as lovers was a classical interjection into the Homeric text. 50. What effect does the embassy have on Achilles?Odysseus, Phoenix, and Ajax all present arguments as to why Achilles should rejoin the war. One may argue that the embassy was effective, as Achilles’ answer to each shows him moving closer to rejoining the war. For example, to Odysseus he states he is sailing home in the morning (and everyone else should as well) (9.437, 507); to Phoenix he states he will decide whether to leave in the morning (9.755); and to Ajax he states he will not fight again until Argives are being slaughtered and their ships are on fire (9.795). As such, one may argue that the embassy was effective in moving Achilles closer to rejoining the war. Another perspective, however, would be that Achilles has no intention of sailing home. One may question why, if Achilles was on the cusp of sailing home the next morning, he had not done so already. Therefore, the threat of sailing home is a pretense, and one that is dropped by the end of his dialogue with the Achaean delegates. The rage of Achilles will not be sated until his Achaean brothers are being slaughtered and almost all hope has gone. It is less that the embassy moved him to this position but more their arguments removed any veneer to Achilles’ rage and desire for glory. 51. What else should be noted in the embassy to Achilles?There are a few other noteworthy aspects of the embassy to Achilles. Agamemnon’s offer of one of his daughters to Achilles (9.170) recalls the horrific fate of Iphigeneia who was offered as a human sacrifice to Artemis after being tricked into thinking she was to marry Achilles (Question 9). Notice that Odysseus, as a messenger of Agamemnon, does not repeat the high chieftain’s statement that Achilles must a submit to him, the “greater man” (9.188, cf. 362). Achilles’ rage and its temptations seems to have been well-known to Achilles’ father, Peleus (9.307). Despite Achilles’ statement of loving Briseis with his whole heart (9.415), his vulgar offering of her to Agamemnon makes it difficult to see her as anything more than a proxy for Achilles’ sense of honor (9.407). Furthermore, it is notable that Hector and Achilles have fought before, and Hector “barely escaped” (9.430).One of the most important aspects is the narrative of Thetis presenting the two fates to Achilles (9.498). In short, if he remains in Troy and fights, then he’ll die—but his glory will never end. If he sails home, his pride and glory die, but he’ll have a long life. The choice of the two fates informs why Achilles is more interested in glory and honor than Agamemnon’s treasure—as even if he was enticed by it, he knows he will not live long enough to enjoy it. Achilles seeks the immortality of fame.52. What else should be observed in book nine?Agamemnon lamenting the “brutal treachery” of Zeus and telling his men to sail home (9.24, 31) is reminiscent of him testing his men with similar language in book two (Question 15)—except this time it is not a rouse. Nestor will continue to play the role of the wise counselor, and it should be noted that he represents the ancestral assumption that age equals wisdom (9.70). One may observe that Agamemnon intuits that Zeus’ plan to glorify Achilles through a slaughter of the Argives (9.142). Finally, book nine is bookended by Diomedes speaking up when others are stunned or dumbfounded. The book opens with him rejecting Agamemnon’s call to abandon the siege of Troy and closes with him encouraging the Achaeans after Achilles’ refusal to fight (9.850).

In a gripping discussion, the hosts delve into Zeus's decree that restricts divine aid, setting the stage for fierce combat. They explore the shifting power dynamics between the Achaeans and Trojans, questioning Achilles' necessity for victory. The complexities of fate and divine will come to light, revealing the intricate relationships among the gods, particularly Athena and Zeus. Diomedes' internal struggle as he faces Hector adds depth to themes of pride and strategy, while foreshadowing the tragic fate of Patroclus heightens the tension.

Dive into the intense duel between Ajax and Hector, where honor and the importance of burial rites come to the forefront. Explore how Nestor taunts his comrades while reflecting on lost glory. The podcast navigates the complex dynamics of fate, divine intervention, and the moral dilemmas faced by warriors. It also touches on the fragile truce for burying the dead, revealing the emotional stakes amidst the chaos of war. The closing thoughts highlight the camaraderie formed even in conflict, wrapping the discussion in themes of respect and mortality.