Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Why do clients keep asking for deliverables they don't actually need? How to get them to focus on the outcome instead of the task list? Every agency owner has had clients show up asking for a website, SEO, or a million social posts, when what they actually need is something much deeper: more leads, more profit, more time back, and a business they're proud of again. Today's featured guest broke down how he built an 11-year-old shop that delivers exactly that. We dig into why small businesses really hire agencies, why "selling SEO" is a trap, and how simplifying complex work can make your agency more profitable, more trusted, and a hell of a lot easier to run. Nico Biggi, Founder of The Gorilla Agency a full-service Oregon digital agency that helps small businesses achieve their marketing goals. After applying to 31 agencies and hearing absolutely nothing back, he decided if no one would hire him, he'd simply build the place he wished existed. Eleven years later, his agency helps small businesses fall in love with their companies again by delivering marketing that feels personal, purposeful, and rooted in truth—not hype. In this interview, we'll discuss: Why clients don't want SEO and what small business are really buying. How radical simplicity makes agencies more profitable. Walking away from big clients to make your agency stronger. How AI is changing client expectations. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Why Clients Don't Actually Want SEO (And What They're Really Buying from Agencies) Nico knows why his clients first reach out and he understands that, in reality, no one wants SEO. No one wants a website. No one wants a content calendar. What they want is for their phone to ring. They want predictable revenue and to stop feeling behind. Basically, they want a business that finally looks and performs the way they imagined when they started it. Hence, when Nico sits with a new client, he doesn't take their request at face value. He keeps pulling the thread: Why do you want that? What are you really trying to fix? What's happening behind the scenes that made you reach out today? By the time he gets to the core problem, the tactical service almost never matches the thing they originally asked for. And that's where trust is built—showing clients the real path to their desired outcome, not the task list they think they need. As he puts it: Services are the toolkit. Outcomes are the reason you pick up the tools. How Radical Simplicity Makes Agencies More Profitable and Improves Client Trust During client meetings, Nico strives to strip away the complexity agencies tend to hide behind. Clients don't want a masterclass in keyword density or a dissertation-length PDF they'll never read. They want clarity. To him, the best operators and the best salespeople think like teachers. Teachers take complicated ideas and make them accessible. They speak in a way a fifth grader can understand, because simplicity builds confidence, and confidence builds buy-in. Inside his own agency, this shows up in the way he trains his team. No silos. No "not my job." Everyone learns how every part of the system works, from content, SEO, design, dev, and strategy. That shared understanding creates respect, efficiency, and a culture where no one feels like they're building in the dark. Everyone in his team is taught that no one is above anyone and they're all running the machine together. It's a mindset that creates accountability among the team and helps the client understand exactly what they're paying for. Why Saying No to Big Clients Can Make Your Agency Stronger Every agency owner has a moment where the "big" client forces them to rethink everything. For Nico, it was early on, when a client offered him more money than he even asked for ($10k a month) and three months later, he fired the client. On paper, it was a dream account. In practice, it drained the team, misaligned with their process, and became the catalyst for rebuilding the agency from the ground up. He spent two years refining every process—on-page and off-page SEO, content creation, design systems, communication workflows—all centered around one thing: making sure clients always know where their money is going and how it's working. Most agencies duct-tape their operations when things get messy instead of rebuilding the underlying, broken system. Nico rebuilt his foundation truly believing that all business owners need is for someone to create systems, truly listen to them, and help them articulate what they do for their clients. Authenticity Converts (And Your Clients Need Your Help to Show It) Nico's wife unknowingly became the perfect case study for modern buyer behavior. Before choosing anything (restaurants, local services, events) she checks: Reviews Menus FAQs Photos Location Details User experience Credibility That's what most customers are doing, and the standard Nico sets for his clients. He wants to work with businesses that engage with clients and answer their questions, show their work with real photos, tell compelling stories, show proof, have a clean, intuitive website. If it doesn't pass what Nico calls "the wife test" — if a business doesn't have clear answers, real photos, social proof, strong UX, and transparent information — it doesn't ship. And the same goes for exclusivity: Nico refuses to work with two companies in the same industry and service area. He wants to make one the best, not compete against himself for small wins. How AI Is Changing Client Expectations and Why It Won't Replace Agencies Nico sees AI from both angles: the opportunity and the threat. On one hand, AI makes clients think everything should be instant and $500. He's already had clients send him AI-generated instructions like they're firing off tasks to a robot. The danger isn't AI itself but rather clients misunderstanding what real strategy, design, content, and user experience actually require. But the other side is where he sees massive upside. AI removes the repetitive, thankless tasks that bog agencies down. It gives teams more room to think, solve, and create. It lets agencies deliver more value, not less, if they use it correctly. AI doesn't replace strategy and, more importantly, it doesn't replace the human connection that actually closes deals. Your network is your edge. Tools evolve but human trust, real expertise, and the ability to guide clients through complexity—that doesn't. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

In this conversation, Eric Gray, founder of Maverick Content Studio and a former leader at Universal Parks & Resorts, shares why he left his corporate 'dream job' at 41 to start his own agency. He discusses the challenges of targeting Fortune 500 brands, leveraging his network to secure early clients, and building both his agency and personal brand through social media. Eric also opens up about the mental challenges of entrepreneurship and his unique recruitment strategies that help him attract talent in a competitive market.

Elyse Lupin, president and founder of Elysium Marketing Group, shares her journey from a solo entrepreneur to leading a thriving agency specializing in food and franchise marketing. She discusses the paradox of growth: challenges intensify as you scale, emphasizing the importance of client and team retention as true indicators of success. Elyse highlights the value of celebrating small wins and fostering a strong company culture as strategic advantages. She also reflects on the significance of letting go of control and empowering her team to drive success.

Michael Davern, CEO of Incept and an early adopter of AI in digital marketing, shares his insights on thriving in an AI-driven landscape. He discusses why 'AI-enhanced' agencies, which blend technology with human connection, outperform 'AI-first' models. Michael emphasizes the importance of leadership and relationships in maintaining long client lifecycles. He advises agency owners to embrace innovation, actively foster team creativity, and navigate the noise created by poor tools in the market. A strong push for human-first strategies is at the core of his approach.

Chase Clymer, co-founder of Electric Eye and Shopify expert, shares his journey from musician to agency leader focused on e-commerce growth. He explains how he transformed podcasting into a powerful lead generation tool by booking ideal clients as guests. Chase emphasizes the importance of strategic partnerships, consistency in content production, and creating authentic conversations that resonate. Learn how staying connected with a niche audience can drive steady leads for agency growth.

Ben Childs, President of Digital Reach, delves into the future of agencies amidst AI advancements. He argues that soft skills and trust are key to success, emphasizing that communication and relationship-building outshine technical prowess. Ben discusses the evolving agency landscape and how in-person interactions can foster deeper connections. He also highlights the importance of proactive problem-solving and adapting to client needs, ensuring that agencies remain valuable partners in a rapidly changing market.

Brandon Rost, Founder and CEO of be Marketing, shares his journey of transforming a solo venture into a multimillion-dollar agency. He explores the complexities of building a leadership team, emphasizing that promotions without clear strategies can lead to chaos. Brandon reveals the important financial KPIs he tracks and discusses the balance between skilled and managerial roles. He highlights the necessity of robust sales systems and the power of relationships and knowledge in today's competitive landscape.

McKay Salisbury, founder and CEO of FiveStar Commerce, shares insights from his eCommerce agency that manages major retail accounts. He discusses innovative hiring strategies for fresh graduates, emphasizing the importance of in-person culture to boost team retention. McKay reveals his approach to creating clear career paths that foster ambitious young talent and discusses the dual advancement tracks—skills and managerial—that ensure comprehensive training. His insights into building a supportive environment highlight how employee growth can align with agency success.

Vishal Mahida, Director of Digital Marketing at E2M Solutions, shares insights on how AI is transforming SEO. He clarifies the distinction between traditional SEO and AI optimization, emphasizing the role of LLMs like ChatGPT in search strategies. Vishal highlights the importance of adapting client KPIs and rethinking reporting metrics, while also discussing the necessity for agencies to perform AI audits. He argues that business owners still need agencies for effective AI management, ensuring brands remain discoverable in an evolving digital landscape.

Ben Gaddis, former founder and CEO of T3 and now co-founder of Superstep Capital, shares his insights on innovation and leadership in the agency world. He emphasizes that agencies must embrace innovation as a core expectation to stay relevant. Gaddis recalls how he pivoted T3 to become a mobile leader early on and discusses the importance of investing in R&D. He also highlights the significance of having strong leadership and operational simplicity to scale effectively, all while navigating the complexities of AI in the current marketing landscape.