Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies

Ingrid Schneider, founder of Stay In Your Lane and Train In Your Lane, is a fractional CMO and AI trainer for teams like Ben & Jerry's. She talks about moving from survival pricing to valuing your work. She explains boundaries and designing an agency that energizes you. She covers human-first management, hiring for grit, and a practical learn-apply-commit approach to AI adoption.

Scott Desgrosseilliers, founder and CEO of Wicked Reports and attribution expert for e-commerce brands, discusses AI’s confident but flawed take on marketing data. He covers why AI misreads time and intention, the need to label campaign goals, and his Five Forces framework for cleaner attribution. Expect practical talk on aligning measurement, scoreboards, and decision ranges for better marketing choices.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Most agencies don't have a marketing problem. They have a sameness problem. Their websites, their services, their "award-winning team" language. It's all the same. They even have the same promises that sound impressive but mean absolutely nothing to a prospect who's heard it 50 times this week. Today's featured guest has a pretty good idea of why agencies are blending into the background and how the ones that win are doing the opposite. He'll get into differentiation, AI, pricing confidence, RFPs, and why playing it safe is the fastest way to disappear. David Brier is the the branding expert CEOs call when their marketing hits a wall. He calls himself "rehab for brands" to help get them profitable. He is the author of Brand Intervention and Rich Brand, Poor Brand, and he's built a career around one core idea most agencies completely miss: branding isn't about looking better but about being different. After realizing there were more than 25,000 branding books and no agreed-upon definition, David distilled branding down to four words: the art of differentiation. That idea alone reframes how agencies should think about positioning, pricing, and growth, especially right now. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why Differentiation Isn't Optional in the Age of Lazy Thinking. Get Rid of the Agency Speak Saying 'No' as a Strategic Advantage Different is Better Than Better Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Why Branding and Differentiation Are No Longer Optional for Agencies David's definition of branding cuts through the noise because it mirrors how humans actually behave. We notice what's different. We ignore what feels familiar. If your agency sounds like a remix of every other agency, your prospects' brains will quietly check out. That's why brands like Apple feel predictable in a good way. As Seth Godin once said, you know what an Apple sneaker would be like. You don't know what a Marriott sneaker would be like—and that's the problem. One owns a point of view. The other plays it safe. For agencies, differentiation means making a choice and being willing to lose people who aren't a fit. That's uncomfortable, especially if you're used to trying to appeal to everyone. But the agencies that scale aren't trying to be a choice. They're working to become the choice for the right clients. How "Agency Speak" Is Killing Your Sales Ask most agency owners what makes them different and you'll hear the same three things: our people, our process, our portfolio. That language doesn't differentiate you, it only anesthetizes the conversation. You wouldn't advise your clients to use the language of the competition, so why would you? Additionally, David also believes that brands that take a stand and aren't afraid to be bold will automatically stand out from the many many agencies that are too timid and too afraid to offend. This doesn't mean you have to be divisive. You can be bold in a way that actually brings people together. This fear of being truly different comes from the way we're all wired to believe that an amazing portfolio will be enough to draw people in. But the portfolio isn't the most important thing in the room, is the person sitting across from you. Stop leading with your work and start leading with questions. When you ask better questions and actually listen, prospects feel seen. By the time you show your portfolio, if you even need to, they've already decided whether they trust you. That kind of confidence signals maturity—and it instantly separates you from the agencies still performing their pitch deck like a talent show. Why AI Is Fueling a Sea of Sameness in Agency Marketing AI isn't the enemy… but lazy thinking is. David sees it as everyone is now outsourcing their ingenuity to the same tools, using the same prompts, producing the same safe output. The result is, of course, a sea of indistinguishable brands with no soul and no pulse. What he calls "The Great Wall of Beige." The mistake agencies make is thinking AI replaces brilliance. It doesn't. It amplifies whatever you bring to it. If you don't have a point of view, AI will happily help you sound like everyone else faster. The agencies that win in this era will use AI as a tool, not a crutch. They'll still ask, "Why the hell not?" They'll still challenge assumptions. And they'll still bring conviction, creativity, and human judgment to the table, because that's the part clients can't automate. The Power of Saying No: Reclaiming Pricing and Positioning When a buying process is run by a committee, the goal isn't excellence, it's consensus. And consensus is where great ideas go to die. This is why David stopped participating in RFPs. The most powerful move an agency can make isn't trying harder to win bad deals. It's being willing to walk away. The ability to say no signals strength. It reframes the relationship. When you stop chasing every opportunity and start choosing your clients, pricing objections lose their power. As David put it, when prospects ask why he's so expensive, he flips the script: "Why is everyone else so cheap?" That mindset shift alone changes how clients perceive your value. What's Next for Agencies to Stay Profitable in a Changing Market The landscape is changing even from week to week with new technologies, which makes it harder to predict how the industry will change in years to come. For David, it all boils down to knowing what you're selling. Agencies that sell themselves as commodities will basically go out of business. As he points out, AI is accelerating output but not judgment, taste, or leadership. When everyone has access to the same tools and prompts, the middle ground disappears fast. Agencies that sell "deliverables" instead of thinking will find themselves racing to the bottom on price, competing with software instead of strategy. In a market flooded with instant, AI-generated work, the real differentiator becomes the ability to think on your feet, challenge assumptions, and connect dots in real time. The greatest athletes, actors, comedians, and entrepreneurs in the world were able to think for themselves and could take something unexpected and work with it and improvise. Can you give people something unexpected? That's something no tool can replicate, and it's why experience is becoming more valuable, not less. Why Different Beats Better: Escaping the Race to the Bottom David strongly believes that in these times of sameness and an abundance of content that lacks pulse and personality, different is better than better. Agencies that have completely given up trying to create something unique and have instead relegated the thinking to AI will try to stand out by repeatedly stating they're better, faster, or bigger. David, however, prefers to offer something different. This gives him the confidence to face clients that come to a meeting with rehearsed questions they got from other creators to assess him and counter with "actually, you're asking the wrong question. What you should be asking is…" No framework replaces conviction. The best leaders don't answer scripted questions—they redirect them. That's how you elevate the conversation. That's how you escape commodity pricing. And that's how you build a brand people remember. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Cliff Skelliter, a serial entrepreneur and the owner of Launchpad Creative, shares his journey from a career in communications to becoming a successful agency leader. He discusses the trials of partnership failures, the importance of resilience, and how self-belief can drive success. Cliff's candid reflections on rebuilding trust after setbacks and the lessons learned from his experiences offer valuable insights for any agency owner. His story emphasizes the unpredictability of agency life and the necessity of a strong, adaptable mindset.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Running an agency today looks nothing like it did even a few years ago. What used to work: SEO-driven inbound leads, tight vertical niches, and predictable platforms, has shifted fast. Today's featured guest has learned to adapt to these changes and went from having a clear and defined niche to letting clients' needs guide the next steps for her business. She'll talk about navigating those changes, evolving your positioning, and deciding whether you're actually willing to do what adaptation requires. Laryssa Wirstiuk is the owner of Joy Joya, a boutique email and SMS marketing agency that serves women-focused, product-based e-commerce brands. With more than 15 years in marketing and over a decade running her own agency, Laryssa has lived through multiple shifts in platforms, buyer behavior, and agency models. Her background as a marketing generalist, working across SEO, social, and email, gave her the flexibility to adapt as the market changed. That adaptability, combined with a strong point of view on branding, inbound marketing, and outbound growth, made her a great guest for agency owners questioning what's next for their own businesses. In this episode, we'll discuss: Starting out with a clear niche and evolving along the way. Adopting a hybrid growth strategy. Personal brand vs. clear offers. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. How to Choose a Niche Without Getting Stuck In It Laryssa didn't stumble into her original niche by accident. After working across industries like tech, education, and healthcare, she realized none of them truly excited her. Jewelry stood out because of its mix of fashion, storytelling, and creativity. Rather than guessing, she intentionally took in-house and freelance roles in the jewelry industry to build credibility before going all in. That vertical focus paid off. By committing to a specific industry, Laryssa was able to build a strong referral network, speak at trade shows, and create highly targeted content that drove inbound leads. But after nine years in the jewelry space, she noticed that the biggest results she delivered for clients consistently came from email marketing. What started as one service among many became the clear driver of ROI. The shift from a vertical niche (jewelry) to a horizontal specialization (email and SMS marketing) wasn't a sudden pivot. It was a response to real performance data. Stronger results, clearer processes, and deeper expertise made the decision feel natural. Your niche should serve your strengths, not trap you in yesterday's model. Why Inbound Alone Is No Longer Enough For most of Joy Joya's history, inbound marketing did the heavy lifting. Content, SEO, YouTube, and a podcast tailored to the jewelry industry created steady deal flow without much outbound effort. That's one of the biggest benefits of vertical focus: you can dominate a small pond with the right content and relationships. But the market shifted. Search behavior changed. Social algorithms changed and AI entered the picture. Laryssa realized that relying solely on inbound was no longer enough. Over the past year or two, she intentionally started building outbound muscles: cold email, cold calling, LinkedIn outreach, and systems that allowed her team to support those efforts. The key insight here isn't that inbound is dead, it's that inbound alone is risky. Agencies that survived and grew were willing to adapt their acquisition mix, even when it meant doing uncomfortable things. The Hard Question Every Agency Owner Faces Adapting isn't just about strategy. You should also ask yourself whether you want to do what's required next. New platforms, new sales motions, and new expectations can trigger an existential crisis for long-time owners. You don't have to love every part of running an agency, but you do need the discipline to face the things you'd rather avoid. The solution isn't grinding forever but rather identifying what you don't enjoy, systemizing it, delegating it, or removing it altogether. Agency owners should get comfortable with change as a necessary part of running an agency. The hard part is that change often targets the things you already tolerate but don't love. That's why many agencies stall. The owners don't hate their situation enough to change it but they don't love it enough to stay fully committed either. When Personal Brand Creates Attention But Not Conversions As AI and recommendation engines influence buying decisions, developing a personal brand becomes vital when it comes to being recommended by these tools. People want to work with leaders whose beliefs, values, and perspectives they understand. That's why podcasts, long-form content, and consistent points of view matter more than ever. In her case, Laryssa shared an unexpected challenge after developing her personal brand. She had built such a strong personal and brand identity that many people understood her perspective but didn't fully understand what her agency actually did. In some cases, prospects were more familiar with the brand name than the services behind it. The lesson for agency owners is balance. Thought leadership without clear offers creates attention without conversion. As platforms evolve, it's not enough to educate—you need to connect that education to the right services, for the right audience, at the right time. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training If AI can now write, design, and build faster than your team, what does a profitable agency actually sell next? Most agency owners have experienced a weird mix of excitement and anxiety about AI. On the surface, it feels like everything is changing overnight, including websites, content, search, development, and even how clients perceive value. Underneath that panic, though, there's a calmer truth: the fundamentals of running a great agency haven't changed at all. The tools have. Today's featured guest talks candidly about where AI actually helps agencies, where it's wildly overhyped, and why agency owners who focus on systems, relationships, and leverage will win while everyone else burns out chasing shiny tools. Eric Weidner is the founder of Workbox, a digital agency specializing in websites and custom applications for pharmaceutical companies and pharma marketing agencies. With a background that stretches back to the early days of the web, Eric has built, rebuilt, and adapted his agency multiple times, and today he's deep in the practical application of AI for real agency work, not just demos and hype. In this episode, we'll discuss: How agencies are positioned to win with AI. Avoid creating client disappointment with incorrect use of AI. The brutal reality for agencies that rely on "set it and forget it" marketing. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. The Road to Becoming a Long-Term Agency Operator Eric fell into web development in the mid-90s while working as a secretary administrator at a law firm in San Francisco. Exposure to early tech including computer networks, WordPerfect, XML, and eventually HTML turned into freelance work. That freelance work led to clients and eventually an agency. His story mirrors how most agencies actually begin, with skill, opportunity, and momentum. The problem is that what gets you started is rarely what helps you scale. Eric's longevity comes from his willingness to evolve without abandoning the fundamentals that keep agencies profitable. And that's the trap many agency owners fall into today: assuming AI is a complete reset instead of a force multiplier for the right business model. Why AI Feels Like a Career Defining Moment for Agencies When ChatGPT first came out, Eric didn't treat it like a novelty. He went all in because, for the first time in years, the intellectual challenge of building and running an agency felt exciting again. For a lot of seasoned agency owners, the business had become… static. Same services. Same delivery challenges. Same team bottlenecks. AI cracked that open. Suddenly, there were new problems to solve, new efficiencies to unlock, and new ways to multiply output without multiplying headcount. Ai introduced a chance to rethink how work gets done, how fast ideas move, and how agencies create leverage, not just more work. Eric has no blind optimism when it comes to AI. It isn't magic, and it's not ready to replace strategic thinking. But it is a force multiplier for agencies that understand systems. That's the opportunity most agencies are missing. Instead of asking, "How do we sell AI to clients?" the smarter question is: "How do we use AI to reduce friction, speed up delivery, and improve results—then package that advantage?" Agencies that do this become faster, leaner, and more profitable. Agencies that don't end up stuck in fulfillment, competing on price, and drowning in tools they don't fully understand. AI Is Powerful But It Still Needs a Human Brain AI tools can feel like a superpower, especially if you've never loved certain parts of your job. Writing, development, ideation, and prototyping are faster than ever. But there's a catch. AI works best at the first pass. Ask it to build a landing page, mock up a system, or outline functionality, and it shines. Ask it to make nuanced, detailed changes across a complex system, and it starts to fall apart. In a sense, AI is like a drunk intern—brilliant on the first assignment, frustrating when you ask for revisions. For agency owners, this matters because selling AI as a silver bullet is a fast way to create client disappointment. The agencies that win will be the ones who understand where AI increases leverage and where human judgment still matters. Websites, Search, and the Shift Nobody's Talking About One of the most important things to understand if you're building a website nowadays is that we're not building websites just for humans anymore. As AI-driven search becomes more dominant, users don't always need to click through to a site to get answers. That changes how content, SEO, and authority work. Eric points to GEO—Generative Engine Optimization—as the next evolution of SEO, where freshness, clarity, and structured authority matter more than volume. This creates a brutal reality for agencies that rely on "set it and forget it" marketing. To stay visible, brands must publish consistently. Content often needs to be less than 90 days old to stay relevant in AI-driven systems. For agency owners already stuck in fulfillment, this is a warning sign. More services, more content, more tools without better systems just equals faster burnout. Content Alone Isn't Enough. Your Voice Builds Trust With AI flooding the internet with content, differentiation matters more—not less. People don't just consume content, they build relationships with voices they trust. That's why podcasts, communities, and consistent thought leadership outperform random marketing tactics. When people hear you think out loud for years, trust compounds. In an AI-saturated world, that human connection becomes the advantage. Or as Jason puts it: when agency owners say they need more leads, the answer is often boring but effective. Build a platform. Build trust. Stay visible. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Nital Shah, co-founder of Mavlers, has scaled his agency to 700 people while ensuring profitability and culture. In this engaging discussion, he shares his profit-first mindset, emphasizing that profit should be intentional. Nital discusses the importance of defining processes and training to maintain operational excellence. He also explores the challenges of decision speed versus behavioral change in large teams and highlights the necessity for strong leadership and coaching. Tune in for insights on navigating the complexities of managing a massive agency!

Joy Hawkins, a local SEO expert and founder of Sterling Sky, shares her journey from agency employee to leading a 43-person remote team. She tackles the challenges of adapting to Google's constant changes and the impact of AI on search visibility. Discussing the necessity of diversifying marketing channels, Joy emphasizes that Google is unique due to its rich Maps data. She also highlights the benefits of remote work and how building a strong team culture can enhance agency success while driving meaningful impact through charity.

Filip Lugovic, co-founder and CEO of The Right Street, shares his journey in digital communications within the EU's political landscape. He discusses the importance of choosing a clear niche for success, emphasizing how it helped him weather the pandemic. With a background in public affairs, he explains building trust through relationships and the value of patience during slow periods. Filip also highlights creative strategies to maintain team morale and advises agency owners on navigating client challenges, reflecting on lessons from over 20 years in the industry.

Manish Dudharejia, founder of E2M Solutions, dives into how AI is reshaping agency efficiency, urging firms to adapt or risk being left behind. Kriston Sellier shares her journey from freelancer to CEO, highlighting the importance of building a strong advisory team. Chris Dreyer stresses the value of personal client relationships, advocating for in-person meetings over automation. Together, they provide insights on scaling agencies, embracing technology, and maintaining meaningful connections in an increasingly digital landscape.