
Innovation Files: Where Tech Meets Public Policy
Explore the intersection of technology, innovation, and public policy with the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation (ITIF), the world’s leading think tank for science and tech policy. Innovation Files serves up expert interviews, insights, and commentary on topics ranging from the broad economics of innovation to specific policy and regulatory questions about new technologies. Expect to hear some unconventional wisdom.
Latest episodes

Oct 24, 2022 • 30min
Seven Ways Nations Attain and Keep National Competitiveness, With Michael Mazaar
Rob and Jackie sat down with Michael Mazarr, a senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation, to discuss his report identifying characteristics that are associated with competitive advantage. They touch on how the U.S. is currently lacking most if not all of them, and potential steps moving forward. Mentioned:Michael J. Mazaar, The Societal Foundations of National Competitiveness, Santa Monica, CA: RAND Corporation, 2022.Michael J. Mazaar, The Sources of Societal Competitiveness: How Nations Actually Succeed in Long-Term Rivalries, Santa Monica, CA: RAND Corporation, 2022.Robert D. Atkinson and Jackie Whisman, “Investing in American Dynamism, With Ben Horowitz and Katherine Boyle,” Innovation Files podcast, April 4, 2022.Robert D. Atkinson and Michael Lind, “National Developmentalism: From Forgotten Tradition to New Consensus,” American Affairs, Volume III, Number 2 (Summer 2019).

Oct 3, 2022 • 27min
How Henry Ford’s Populist Attitude Led Him to Share Tech With Enemies, With Stefan Link
Midwestern populism caused a ripple effect that extended to open technology transfers and exchanges between Ford Motor Company and both Soviet and Nazi specialists. Rob and Jackie sat down with Stefan Link, Associate Professor of History at Dartmouth University, to discuss Henry Ford and his “open door policy” regarding methods and engineering. Mentioned:Stefan J. Link, Forging Global Fordism: Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and the Contest over the Industrial Order (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 2020).Mario Daniels and John Krige, Knowledge Regulation and National Security in Postwar America (Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 2022).

Sep 12, 2022 • 30min
Three Historic Tech Booms Shaping Our Times, With Peter Leyden
There are techniques for thoroughly thinking through how technologies will be adopted, what their implications will be, how they will spur growth, and how they will create new industries. Rob and Jackie sat down with futurist and tech expert Peter Leyden, who hosts Civilization Salons at The Long Now Foundation, to discuss how digital technologies are shaping the future for the economy, the work force, manufacturing, and more. Mentioned:Jason Feifer, “Wearing A Walkman Was Illegal,” Building For Change podcast (formerly Pessimists Archive), September 12, 2016.Related:Robert D. Atkinson, “The Task Ahead of Us: Transforming the Global Economy With Connectivity, Automation, and Intelligence” (ITIF, January 2019).

Aug 15, 2022 • 29min
What Happens to the Economy When Patent Protections Are Weakened, With Jonathan Barnett
Robust intellectual property rights provide the incentives necessary to drive innovation by allowing markets to form for tangible and intangible assets. Without them, incentives get distorted and innovation slows. Rob and Jackie sat down with Jonathan Barnett, director of the Media, Entertainment and Technology Law Program at USC’s Gould School of Law, to discuss the recent history, current political dynamics, and economic stakes associated with patent protections.Mentioned:Jonathan Barnett, “The Great Patent Grab” (August 20, 2021). In The Battle over Patents: History and Politics of Innovation (eds. Stephen H. Haber and Naomi R. Lamoreaux, Oxford University Press 2021), USC CLASS Research Paper No. CLASS21-48, USC Law Legal Studies Paper No. 21-48.Robert D. Atkinson and Michael Lind, Big Is Beautiful: Debunking the Myth of Small Business (The MIT Press, 2019).Stephen Ezell, “TRIPS Waiver on COVID-19 IP Rights Wouldn’t Help Vaccine Access; It Would Just Harm Innovation,” ITIF Innovation Files, March 19, 2021.Stephen Ezell, “The Bayh-Dole Act’s Vital Importance to the U.S. Life-Sciences Innovation System” (ITIF, March 2019).

Aug 1, 2022 • 33min
Life Sciences Innovation Through the Bayh-Dole Act, With Joe Allen
Innovation in life sciences is crucial for many key industries in the United States and across the globe. It supports advances in human biotechnology, pharmaceuticals, health care policy, and beyond. Such advances would not always have been possible without the Bayh-Dole Act. Rob and Jackie sat down with Joe Allen, who served as a professional staffer on the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee to former Senator Birch Bayh, to discuss the importance of the Bayh-Dole Act and the future of life sciences innovation. RelatedStephen Ezell, “The Bayh-Dole Act’s Vital Importance to the U.S. Life-Sciences Innovation System” (ITIF, March 2019). “Preserving Bayh-Dole—the “Inspired” Law That Underpins U.S. Leadership in Life-Sciences Innovation” (ITIF Event, March 2019).Stephen Ezell, “How Japan Squandered Its Biopharmaceutical Competitiveness: A Cautionary Tale” (ITIF, July 2022).

Jul 18, 2022 • 26min
Securing US Leadership in Quantum Computing, With Edward Parker
Quantum technologies, especially quantum computing, hold great promise in revolutionizing everyday systems. Quantum computing can be applied to health care, artificial intelligence, national security, and beyond. Rob and Jackie sat down with Edward Parker, a physical scientist at the RAND Corporation, to discuss the implications of quantum computing and how the United States can remain the global leader in this technology.Mentioned:Edward Parker, et al., “An Assessment of the U.S. and Chinese Industrial Bases in Quantum Technology” (RAND Corporation, February 2022). Hodan Omaar, “Why the United States Needs to Support Near-Term Quantum Computing Applications” (Center for Data Innovation, April 2021). Related:Ashley Johnson, “NIST Takes First Big Step in Preparing for Post-Quantum Cryptography” (ITIF, July 2022). “How Will Quantum Computing Shape the Future of AI?” (Center for Data Innovation Event, October 2020). “ITIF Technology Explainer: What Is Quantum Computing?” (ITIF, September 2018).

Jul 5, 2022 • 29min
The Future of Climate Tech Through the U.S. Electric System, With Peter Fox-Penner
The world is facing a climate crisis. But venture-backed clean energy technologies can help avert the worst outcome. Rob and Jackie sat down with Peter Fox-Penner, senior fellow and founding director of Boston University’s Institute for Sustainable Energy and chief impact officer of Energy Impact Partners, to discuss the promise of climate-tech innovation in the U.S. electrical system and venture capital’s role in slowing climate change. RelatedHoyu Chong, “Mission Critical: The Global Energy Innovation System Is Not Thriving” (ITIF, January 2022). “How 5G Can Spur Climate Tech Innovation” (ITIF Event, June 2022).Linh Nguyen, “Refreshing the Global Agenda for Climate Innovation” (ITIF, May 2021).

Jun 21, 2022 • 27min
The Economics of Data, With David Deming
Data is one of the most essential and valuable assets in the world. It impacts everything from the ads we see and the products we buy to national security. Rob and Jackie sat down with David Deming, the Academic Dean and a Professor of Political Economy at the Harvard Kennedy School and the Director of the Malcolm Wiener Center for Social Policy at the Harvard Kennedy School, to discuss the importance of data, data sharing, and ways to protect individual data privacy.MentionedDavid Deming, “Balancing Privacy With Data Sharing for the Public Good,” The New York Times, February 2021.David Moschella, “The Power of Big Tech Peaked During the Pandemic; Disruptive Forces Are on the Rise” (ITIF, June 2022).Gillian Diebold and Chelsea Han, “How AI Can Improve K-12 Education in the United States” (Center for Data Innovation, April 2022).RelatedAshley Johnson, “Three Bills Show Remaining Divisions in Attempt to Reach a Compromise on Federal Data Privacy Legislation” (ITIF, June 2022).Daniel Castro, “Review of the Proposed “American Data Privacy and Protection Act: Part One and Part Two” (ITIF, June 2022).David Moschella, “Your Data Isn’t Gold; It’s Not Even Yours” (ITIF, April 2022).

Jun 6, 2022 • 25min
When the Chips Are Down: Why Domestic Semiconductor Production Matters, With John Zysman
The United States used to be a leader in semiconductor production, but its share of global output dropped from 37 percent in 1990 to just 12 percent in 2019. That helps explain why the country now faces serious supply issues. Rob and Jackie sat down with John Zysman, a professor emeritus at UC Berkeley and co-founder/co-director of the Berkeley Roundtable on the International Economy, to discuss why U.S. semiconductor production is down, what it portends, and how America can regain its footing in the industry. Mentioned:Stephen S. Cohen and John Zysman, Manufacturing Matters: The Myth of the Post-Industrial Economy, (Basic Books, 1987).Related:Rob Atkinson, “Potato Chips, Computer Chips: Yes, There Is a Difference” (ITIF, December 2020).Rob Atkinson, “Computer Chips vs. Potato Chips: The Case for a U.S. Strategic-Industry Policy” (ITIF, January 2022). Stephen Ezell, “Incentives Essential to Ensuring America Possesses a Leading Semiconductor Industry” (ITIF, February 2022).

May 23, 2022 • 28min
China’s Race to the Top: Authoritarianism in Technology and Global Affairs, With Keith Krach
China is taking an authoritarian approach in its quest to be a dominant power in technology and global affairs. Silicon Valley innovator and former Under Secretary of State Keith Krach has a unique perspective on both aspects. Rob and Jackie sat down with him to discuss how China is impacting global market competition and what it means for U.S. competition policy. MentionedKeith Krach, “Present your China contingency plan at the next board meeting,” Fortune Magazine, April 2022.RelatedRobert D. Atkinson, “China’s ‘State Capitalism’ Is Not Capitalism” (ITIF, August 2021).Robert D. Atkinson, “A Remarkable Resemblance: Germany From 1900 to 1945 and China Today,” International Economy, January 20, 2021.Robert D. Atkinson, “Who Lost China?” (ITIF, July 2018).