
Innovation Files: Where Tech Meets Public Policy
Explore the intersection of technology, innovation, and public policy with the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation (ITIF), the world’s leading think tank for science and tech policy. Innovation Files serves up expert interviews, insights, and commentary on topics ranging from the broad economics of innovation to specific policy and regulatory questions about new technologies. Expect to hear some unconventional wisdom.
Latest episodes

Aug 7, 2023 • 21min
Counterfeiting is a Crime Against Innovation, With Kebharu Smith
Counterfeiting—one of the oldest, simplest crimes—has only continued to evolve as technology has grown more complex. Rob and Jackie sat down with Kebharu Smith, director of Amazon's Counterfeit Crimes Unit and Associate General Counsel, to talk about how counterfeiting negatively impacts business, taxes, intellectual property, and innovation itself. MentionedBecca Trate and Daniel Castro. Best Practices to Combat Online Sale of Counterfeits in the EU and US, (ITIF, July 2022).RelatedSujai Shivakumar. How Data-Sharing Partnerships Can Thwart Counterfeits on Online Marketplaces, (March 2021).

Jul 17, 2023 • 28min
The Complicated Evolution of Information, With Jim Cortada
Over the past 150 years, humanity has generated an unprecedented amount and variety of information, surpassing the cumulative knowledge of previous eras. Rob and Jackie sat down with Jim Cortada, a senior research fellow at the Charles Babbage Institute at the University of Minnesota Twin Cities to talk about how information shapes society.MentionedJim Cortada, Birth of Modern Facts: How the Information Revolution Transformed Academic Research, Governments, and Businesses, (Sandman Books, 2023). Sarah Lamdan, Data Cartels: The Companies That Control and Monopolize Our Information, (Stanford University Press, 2022).RelatedDavid Moschella, “We Shouldn’t Ask Technologists To Be Arbiters of ‘Truth’,” (ITIF, July 2023).

Jun 5, 2023 • 22min
Why Societal Trust Is Imperative For Innovation, With David Moschella
Looking ahead to the technological challenges and opportunities of the next decade, social trust will be more important than ever for the tech industry. Rob and Jackie sat down with David Moschella, a nonresident senior fellow at ITIF and the author of ITIF’s “Defending Digital” series, to discuss how a lack of societal trust harms the U.S. innovation system.MentionedDavid Moschella, “Digital Innovation Isn’t Undermining Societal Trust; It’s the Other Way Around” (ITIF, February 2023).RelatedDaniel Castro, “Groupthink Is To Blame for Recent TikTok Bans” (ITIF, February 2023).Patrick Grady and Daniel Castro, “Tech Panics, Generative AI, and the Need for Regulatory Caution” (Center for Data Innovation, May 2023).

May 15, 2023 • 27min
Deciphering the World of Data, With George Sciadas
A data-driven world raises the stakes for numeric literacy. Rob and Jackie sit down with George Sciadas, the former director of the Statistics Canada Center for Special Business Projects and author of the new book Number Savvy, to discuss the past, present, and future of data in society.MentionedGeorge Sciadas. Number Savvy: From the Invention of Numbers to the Future of Data, (Taylor & Francis Group, 2022). Kirk Goldsberry. Sprawlball: A Visual Tour of the New Era of the NBA. (Mariner Books, 2019)

Apr 3, 2023 • 24min
Containing China While Rebuilding the United States, With Jonathan Ward
America can’t just pick up speed to beat China economically; it needs to slow down China, because there’s no use in accelerating when your adversary is along for the ride. Rob and Jackie sat down with Jonathan Ward, author of China’s Vision of Victory, to discuss where things stand in innovation and technology, and how the U.S. can maintain its position as the world’s largest and most sophisticated economy.MentionedJonathan Ward. The Decisive Decade: American Grand Strategy for Triumph Over China, (Diversion Books, 2023).Jonathan Ward. China’s Vision of Victory: A Guide to the Global Grand Strategy of the Chinese Government, (Atlas Organization, 2023).RelatedIan Clay and Robert D. Atkinson. Wake Up, America: China Is Overtaking the United States in Innovation Capacity, (ITIF, 2023)Stephen Ezell and Stefan Koester. Three Cheers for the CHIPS and Science Act of 2022! Now, Let’s Get Back to Work, (ITIF, 2022).

Mar 6, 2023 • 30min
The Future of Smart Cities in a Data-Driven Society, With Jonathan Reichental
Jonathan Reichental, a technology and business leader in the smart city movement, discusses the challenges and opportunities in developing smart city apps, the importance of collaboration and data sharing, and the role of data in government and business growth.

Feb 13, 2023 • 26min
Should Section 230 Cover Algorithms? What’s at Stake in Gonzalez v. Google, With Ashley Johnson
Google doesn’t create terrorist propaganda videos, doesn’t allow them on YouTube, and takes them down as fast as it can when extremist groups post them anyway. But a question now before the Supreme Court is whether Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act protects Google and other platform operators from liability if their algorithms end up spreading harmful content. To parse the potential ramifications, Rob and Jackie sat down with Senior Policy Analyst Ashley Johnson, one of ITIF’s resident experts on Internet policy issues such as privacy, security, and platform regulation.MentionedRobert D. Atkinson. “A Policymaker’s Guide to the ‘Techlash’—What It Is and Why It’s a Threat to Growth and Progress” (ITIF, October 2019).RelatedAshley Johnson, “If the Supreme Court Limits Section 230, It Will Change the Way the Internet Functions” (ITIF, February 2023).Ashley Johnson. “Section 230 Still Isn’t the Solution to Conservative Claims of Social Media Censorship” (ITIF, December 2022).

Jan 23, 2023 • 25min
Microchips Are the New Oil, With Chris Miller
Semiconductors are arguably the most important core technology in the modern world. You can’t fully understand the current state of politics, economics, or technology until you consider the role they play. Rob and Jackie sat down with economic historian Chris Miller to discuss the extent to which microchips are the new oil. MentionedMiller, Chris. Chip War: The Fight for the World's Most Critical Technology. Simon & Schuster, 2022. Remarks by National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan at the Special Competitive Studies Project Global Emerging Technologies Summit. The White House. The United States Government, September 16, 2022. RelatedRobert D. Atkinson. Computer Chips vs. Potato Chips: The Case for a U.S. Strategic-Industry Policy. (ITIF, January 2022).

Dec 12, 2022 • 28min
Measuring the Whole Spectrum of Mathematics Achievement, with Richard Rusczyk
Teaching students to combine basic ideas to solve novel, difficult problems is imperative to lay a foundation for STEM pursuits. Rob and Jackie sat down with Richard Rusczyk, founder of the Art of Problem Solving Initiative, coauthor of the original Art of Problem Solving books, and cofounder of the Mandelbrot Problem Solving Competition.MentionedAoPS and Beast Academy Math programs for Advanced Students. Art of Problem Solving. (n.d.). Retrieved December 9, 2022.Robert D. Atkinson and Merrilea Mayo, “Refueling the U.S. Innovation Economy: Fresh Approaches to STEM Education” (ITIF, December 2010)

Nov 28, 2022 • 31min
Growth and the Character of Society, With Benjamin Friedman
Economics is about more than the economy. It also intersects public and private institutions, culture, religion, morality, and politics. Rob and Jackie explored these subjects with Benjamin Friedman, a professor of Political Economy at Harvard and author of The Moral Consequences of Economic Growth and Religion and the Rise of Capitalism.Mentioned:Benjamin Friedman, Religion and the Rise of Capitalism (Vintage: 2022).Benjamin Friedman, The Moral Consequences of Economic Growth (Vintage: 2006).Robert D. Atkinson, “The Abandonment of Growth and the Decline of the West,” The Independent Review, Vol. 2, no. 2, Fall 2022.Benjamin Carter Hett, The Death of Democracy (Macmillan: 2018)