ThinkEnergy

Canada has been vocal about reaching a net zero future, but in order for the country to get there, it’s going to require a combination of new technology and social behaviours. Catherine Abreu, Executive Director of Destination Zero and former Executive Director of Climate Action Network-Canada, joins thinkenergy this episode to discuss how we can build more resilient energy systems, how Indigenous communities are leading the charge on renewable energy development, and what it will take for Canada to reach its proposed net zero future. Listen to Catherine’s in-depth conversation with Dan Séguin and hear why she believes the antidote to despair is not hope, it’s action. Related Content: Destination Zero: https://www.destinationzero.earth/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/catabreu_ Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:06 This is thinkenergy. The podcast that helps you better understand the fast changing world of energy through conversations with game changers, industry leaders, and influencers. So join me, Dan Seguin, as I explore both traditional and unconventional facets of the energy industry. Hey, everyone, welcome back. On today's show, we're going to talk about what's on everyone's mind. Net Zero. Today's show is going to be a great one, Canada's Amazing Race to net zero emissions by 2050. The topic of climate change is something all generations Baby Boomers, Gen X, millennials and Gen Z's acknowledge as urgent and critical for the future of our planet. Now, imagine in the not too distant future where Canada is 100% powered by clean, renewable energy, and all vehicles on the roads are electric, producing zero greenhouse gas emissions. So to be clear, net zero will be reached when we remove as much or more greenhouse gas emissions from the atmosphere than we put into it. And this utopia is not science fiction, but rather an ambitious action plan that Canada aims to achieve by the year 2050. In fact, with less than three decades to go, the race is on to achievable targets and solve the greatest challenge of our lifetime. On another piece of information, the road Bank of Canada just released a report in October 2021, stating that this transition to net zero emissions could have a price tag of, get this, $2 trillion that 60 billion a year. Wow. Right now, we're putting as much pollution into the atmosphere as we did a generation ago emitting 730 million tons of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases each year. To get back on track, the federal government has committed to getting Canada back to around 500 million tons by 2030. And some of our listeners may not be aware of our very own organization, hydro auto holding, just announced its commitment to reach Net Zero operations by 2030. At first for any municipally owned utility company in Canada. That's pretty amazing. So here's today's big question. Say Canada reduces emissions by 500 million tons by 2030. What is it going to take to eliminate all greenhouse gas emissions between 2030 and 2050? Now joining us today is Catherine Abreu, the executive director of destination zero, and former executive director of Climate Action Network Canada. Catherine, I'm hoping you can shed some light on how the general public can sort spend from substance as it relates to net zero conversations that seem to be gaining enormous momentum. Now, Catherine, are you ready to dive into today's questions?   Catherine Abreu  03:42 Of course   Dan Seguin  03:43 The term Net Zero gets thrown around a lot, but is often misunderstood. Arguably, there's historically been a lot of attention and understanding around one half of the net zero equation, which is lowering our emissions profile. But there's another side to net zero as well, which involves removing or absorbing emissions from the atmosphere. Now, I'm wondering if you can speak to the second part in more details. What does it involve? And how important is carbon removal and absorption to Net zero efforts, Catherine?   Catherine Abreu  04:25 Hey, Daniel. Yeah, thanks for this question. It's a really, really important one. I think often when people hear the phrase net zero by 2050, and we've been hearing it a lot in the last couple of years, especially, you know, it's easy to get really distracted by those phrases, net and 2050. And for me, the operating word in that phrase is zero. And so what net zero means is that we are getting as close to zero emissions as possible. That being said, there will be remaining sources of emissions that were not able to mitigate in time by by mid century. And, and so we use that term net to talk about building up our capacity to sequester those emissions, either through natural means, which is the preferred choice by improving our agricultural lands, you know, turning our farms into places that can help capture some of that carbon by reforming some agricultural practices, restoring natural ecosystems in particular forests, which, of course, you know, requires number one for us to protect those forests, make sure they're not being chopped down. And as much as possible, protect them from the growing forest fires, that we're seeing rage across Canada, restoring other natural ecosystems, like wetlands, which are actually really huge carbon sinks, they store a lot of carbon. And so that's, that's, you know, the primary focus for that part of the net, is let's restore those natural ecosystems. So that we can sequester more of that carbon in the future, if we're not able to actually bring it down to zero, because, you know, some of that carbon is going to be coming from buildings, that will, we'll still be putting out some of that carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the future. And we won't be, you know, we may not necessarily be able to get every single building to zero emissions by 2050. So that's one potential source. Of course, industrial sources are another example. And restoring those natural ecosystems has a whole bunch of other benefits, right, like, improves our health and well being to be able to access those natural species, or those natural spaces, I should say. And it helps with species restoration, because of course, the the twin crises to climate changes the biodiversity crisis. And the other side of the of the net of the net equation is technology. So technology that will actually capture carbon from an industrial process or from the air and turn it into something else, ideally. So carbon capture, utilization and storage is the phrase that's often used on that front. CCUS is the acronym. And we have some of those technologies in operation right now. Generally, they're operating in extremely small scale in a very niche pilot project area. And they're being helped along by huge government subsidies, these carbon capture technologies are right now quite expensive. And so that's why we often say when we're talking about Net Zero that, while those technologies will likely be a part of our future, particularly in industrial applications, we probably right now need to be focusing on those solutions that we know are going to work, and that don't require such huge government subsidies. And those solutions are really in those those ecosystem restoration solutions that I was talking about at the outset.   Dan Seguin  07:58 Okay, in your view, Catherine, what are the most promising and impressive carbon reduction and removal technologies from the perspective of maximizing the ability to achieve net zero by 2050? What are you most excited about when it comes to the vision and opportunity of net zero?   Catherine Abreu  08:20 So yeah, I'm going to give you an answer that's maybe a bit unexpected, because I think when we imagine technology, we often think about it in very like mechanical terms, right? We think about, oh, what's the new, flashy, shiny piece of technology that we're going to apply, and that will save us from ourselves? I think, also, as humans, we tend to be very preoccupied with silver bullet solutions. So we're saying what's the new cool technology that we can invent that's just going to solve climate change for us in the future, and we don't have to worry about it. And so often get worried in the in the carbon capture conversation, that that's where people's minds go. And when in reality, we're looking at a huge mix of solutions. And the technologies that we're going to be working with some of them will be those, you know, mechanical technologies that we imagine that many of them will actually be social adaptations, right? So kind of healing based technologies, new ways of doing thing, things. And so to link it back to our earlier conversation about what net zero by 2050 really means, you know, we can think about a different way of approaching agriculture. So that farmland is turned from a carbon source, which it really is right now. It's the third largest source of carbon and greenhouse gas emissions in the world. So we can think about how to turn it from a carbon source into a carbon sink. So how do we, you know, how do we innovate in the agricultural sector to improve the Have those those agricultural lands capacity to sequester carbon. And I would say that that's actually the thing that I feel most excited about, because I think we have huge, largely untapped potential in that arena. And that conversation around agricultural transformation and the role that farmers can play in a netzero future is just picking up steam here in Canada. And I think it's going to be a really, really important one for us in the next decade. Because making farmers a part of the solution is also a big a big and exciting possibility. In terms of the those hard Technologies, a lot of room, as I was saying earlier, it's still relatively undeveloped. And so it's hard to say which one is going to win the day, right, which when we might be seeing used in some of those industrial applications more often in the future, that's likely to come kind of post 2030. So over the course of the next decade, will be really, really focusing on the things that we have at our fingertips right now. But there will be this kind of technological evolution that happens in parallel. And, you know, perhaps by the 2040s, and the 2050s, there will be some carbon capture technologies that are widely used, or more widely used. And so really, I think what we have to be focusing on is striking this balance between investing in the solutions that we know we have now that we have right at our fingertips, and that we just need to scale up. And then also, taking a look at some of the innovation and the evolution that's happening and carbon capture technologies, mostly in the private sector. There are there are private sector proponents that are thinking through that problem right now. And perhaps, you know, in the next decade, that's a little bit where where we'll be pivoting and thinking about how we're using some of those existing solutions at the scale we need to while also bringing in some of these newer technologies.   Dan Seguin  11:55 Okay. There, there seems to be a lot of excitement around the GHG reduction potential associated with electrification. What's your vision of the role of clean electricity and electrification of other sectors when it comes to helping to fulfill our country's GHG reduction requirements?   Catherine Abreu  12:20 I love this question. I spent the early part of my career regularly attending utility review board meetings and thinking through integrated resource planning processes for utilities. And so I I'm a dedicated electricity nerd. And I think, you know, we often don't talk about that as much as we need to in Canada, because we have an electricity, we have electricity systems across Canada that are already over 80% non emitting. And so for us electricity is is maybe a little bit less a part of the climate action conversation than it is in other places that have much more greenhouse gas intensive electricity systems. But of course, that that really differs across the country. So you know, we have pretty GHG intensive electricity systems on the East Coast in Canada, you know, through the prairies. But why we focus in on that is because clean electricity is where it all starts, that's the foundation that we have to build a decarbonized society from a clean electricity system is what we need to power electric vehicles. Whether those are personal vehicles or public transportation vehicles, clean electricity is what we need to depend on to build our net zero homes. Right, you can't have a netzero home if if that home is, in part using electricity that's being generated from greenhouse gas emitting sources like coal. And so all of these other sectors that we want to decarbonize even industry, right, huge potential for electrification in industry. But the only point of electrifying industry is if that electricity is cleaner than the sources of energy that they're using right now. So all of those other sectors need to decarbonize. And the way they're going to decarbonize is by using a clean electricity system. And I think also part of why that conversation is big here in Canada is because we are at the starting point of having a relatively clean electricity system when compared to other jurisdictions. And so here in Canada, we have the potential to, you know, scale up the renewable the clean, renewable energy that's in our energy mix already. So moved from over 80% clean electricity across Canada to closer to 100% clean electricity in Canada and their government commitments that put us on that track. And we also have the potential to think about scaling up our exports of clean electricity. And I think that's actually an important conversation because Canada has a very greenhouse gas intensive export economy right now, a lot of our exports, you know, they are fossil fuel intensive. And so they have a really high carbon footprint. And we need to be thinking about how to substitute those high carbon exports with low carbon exports, as our economy decarbonize is, and clean electricity is a big part potential there. So yeah, so that's really the foundation of of the social and economic transformation that we're talking about it from as we shift from fossil fuel based energy sources, to clean renewable energy based sources.   Dan Seguin  15:32 When folks hear about plans for reaching net zero by 2050, their immediate reaction is to be concerned about potential increase of in energy costs, or perhaps about losing their jobs, depending on the sector they work in. What would you say to these folks, Catherine?   Catherine Abreu  15:53 the concern of a rising energy costs is a huge one. You know, we've actually seen that rear its head pretty substantially this year, in the late half of 2021, with rising energy costs across Europe, relating mostly to the rising costs of gas. And I think actually, a big lesson that we're learning from the energy cost crisis that many parts of Europe and other parts of the world are experiencing right now is that the fossil fuel market is actually quite volatile. And that volatility has impacted Canada quite a bit as a major oil and gas producer already. But it's starting to impact not only, you know, production, and jobs related to that production of fossil fuels, it's starting to also know penetrate energy systems that rely on those fossil fuels. And, and so we need to be correcting for that volatility. And a part of how we do that actually, and this is maybe counterintuitive to a lot of folks, because there's a lot of misguiding rhetoric out there around renewable energy. But part of how we make energy systems more resilient, is by incorporating more renewable energy more distributed renewable energy generation into those systems. And then another important piece is energy efficiency. So you make those energy systems really lean as much as you can, by cutting energy waste, right? So we want to me making sure that we're not losing energy as it's transferred from where it's created to where it's used, we want to make sure that when it's used, it's used as efficiently as possible. And so those investments in energy efficiency help make the energy system more stable. And then when we make that energy system run on renewable energy, and when we're talking renewable energy, we're talking about a mix here of water when sun and storage, of course, and then we see that, that there is a new kind of resilience put into that system. Because often those energy sources can help us lock in long term prices that are much more stable than the volatile energy prices associated with fossil fuels. So so that is the kind of longer term solution that we're looking to hear. And I said the word distributed earlier. And distributed. So here in Canada, and in most parts of North America, we're used to energy generation happening kind of far away from where we live, right? It's like big coal plants, big natural gas plants that are far away from where we live. And we don't really see them operate very often. And there's huge long transmission lines that get it to our neighborhoods, and then big distribution networks that get it to our homes. With renewable energy, we have the we have the potential to to bring that generation closer to where we need it, where we actually need the end product of the energy. And that can really help build more resilient energy systems as well, because the energy doesn't have as far to go. It's closer to where the demand is. And we maybe have, you know, instead of relying on this one source of energy, we have several sources of energy kind of in the neighborhood that we can be turning to. So So I think that's the Yeah, that's the really like, that's the crux of this kind of transition that we that we need to be going through and in the long run in the long run, that can really offer much lower and more stable energy prices for people. But unfortunately, we've heard a lot of misguided or I think, intentionally misrepresented rhetoric around renewable energy and it having a high cost. And the only reason that that it appears to have a high cost is because fossil fuel energy has been subsidized so heavily for the last century by governments that those fossil fuels tend to have an artist officially lower cost, but we are paying for that artificially lower cost as taxpayers. And so part of the equation here is is leveling out the playing field between fossil fuels and renewable energy by supporting the growth of renewable energy and stopping subsidies to fossil fuels.   Dan Seguin  20:20 Okay, as a customer focus company, Hydro Ottawa understands price and affordability sensitivities. What's your view on how we can meet the massive challenge of decarbonisation of our energy system without creating hardships for some?   Catherine Abreu  20:37 Yeah, there are a lot of models that I think we can learn from around the world. And actually, right here in Canada, there are some really precedent setting models in provinces across this country, to address the concerns around energy affordability, while also carrying on with this very necessary energy system training and session that we have. So a part of how you do that, number one, I mentioned energy efficiency earlier, you can turn energy efficiency into a tool to save people money, and you can target that tool to the people who need it the most. So I a large part of my background, and all my Canadian family is in Nova Scotia. And there is this amazing energy efficiency utility in that province called efficiency, Nova Scotia that are efficiency, why now? but previously efficiency, Nova Scotia, and where they have dedicated programs that go into low income communities that go into renter communities, and help those households reduce their energy consumption, and save money on their energy bills. So that's one. And the other one we can think about is how we allow communities that are currently marginalized in our economic system to profit from the renewable energy revolution, whether that profit is in like hard financial terms, so they're actually going to make some money from it, or in reducing embedded energy costs in those communities. At so here in Canada, we actually already see that about 20% of renewable energy projects are owned by and operating in indigenous communities. And that's huge and exciting, because those communities have often run on, you know, their energy systems are often run on very expensive energy sources like diesel that are very polluting and unhealthy for those communities. And, and often those communities don't have access to economic, the same kinds of economic opportunities as others. And so seeing indigenous communities really lead the charge on renewable energy development in Canada is exciting, because it's bringing prosperity into those communities, it's bringing energy autonomy to those communities, it's giving them something that they can be training community members to do, you know, so it's job creating. So that's another one. And then I'll give one other example. In California, we have this really interesting model where when they introduced their cap and trade system, their carbon pricing system, they said, We're gonna take a portion of the money that we get from this carbon pricing system. And we are going to make sure that lower income households throughout California, have solar panels on their roofs. And we're going to pay for that to happen. And those households in those communities, instead of now getting a check, you know, so here in Canada, our carbon pricing system sends a check to everyone across the country. And that's useful. But in California, we see this model where it's like, instead of getting a check, I have an energy source embedded into my house at no cost, to me, that's substantially lowers my household energy costs. And so I maybe I'm not getting a check every month, but my energy costs every month are eliminated. And so I have much more income at my disposal, because I'm not spending that income on energy. And that I think, is a really powerful model that it would be interesting to think through applying here in Canada. How do we use some of this revenue that we're getting from carbon pricing to make sure that we're addressing energy affordability and the communities that need that?   Dan Seguin  24:26 I'm sure you're aware, there's an incredible amount of momentum around netzero pledges in the public sector governments from around the world and private sector as well. What are your thoughts around these Net Zero commitments from organizations? Is it spin or substance?   Catherine Abreu  24:45 Net-zero by 2050 isn't putting action off until three decades from now? net-zero by 2050 requires concerted action planning activity that starts right now ideally, that started a decade ago and continues on every day between now and 2050.   Dan Seguin  25:05 Canada comes in for criticism for its weak follow up so far on carbon targets. What do you say to Canadians who are skeptical about sufficient action not being taken fast enough?   Catherine Abreu  25:20 Your skepticism is warranted, first of all. Yeah, I mean, it's so unfortunate, right, Canada's really never met a carb climate target, it couldn't miss. We've been setting climate targets since the early 1990s. We haven't met a single one at this point. And I'm really hoping that we can correct for that trend, by using tools that we now have at our disposal, through things like Bill C 12, the netzero Accountability Act, which is a relatively new piece of legislation, just about a year old in Canada. That brings some consistency and some transparency to the climate planning process in Canada. Because this is part of the problem in this country. Our climate planning has been totally ad hoc, so far, right. So we get a government that maybe cares about climate change, maybe they make a commitment on climate emissions reductions, maybe they follow through with that commitment, maybe we hear about how they're doing. Instead, we need this piece of legislation that tells us, okay, every five years, you're going to set a target. By the time you set a target, you have to produce a plan to meet that target within six months. Here's the external expert group that's going to review your plans, going to review your progress, make sure you're on track, make recommendations for how to course correct if you're not make recommendations for how to improve policy, find new opportunities to address emissions while continuing to grow the economy. And this is the model that we've seen employed in other jurisdictions that have been more successful in meeting their climate targets like the UK. So I feel buoyed by the fact and I was I was a big part of the fight to get Bill C 12. passed, it's not perfect, but I think it's a it's a really huge improvement in Canada's climate planning process. So I think we can feel buoyed by that. And that being said, governments across the board have been failing us have been failing their populations, on delivering the scale of ambition that's required to meet this crisis. And I think the thing that we have to do as individuals, if we are feeling concern and despair about that, is we have to activate as political citizens and demand from our political decision makers that they deliver on that scale of action. And I think that's maybe something that we're just coming to here in Canada, unfortunately, climate change has been a rather a rather politically polarized conversation in this country so far. But we're finally getting to a place where every party, regardless of of their of their political identity, understands the climate crisis is a serious issue, and they have to address it. And they need to be hearing from their voters, that their vote is going to be cast according to whether that party is doing what it takes to address this crisis. So So I would say that's it, like, let's have those legislative frameworks in place, let's make sure they're working. Let's make sure you know, we're engaging the independent expertise that we need to assess that. And let's, as a constituency as concerned citizens in this country, let us demand from our political decision makers, that they take the action that's required.   Dan Seguin  28:34 Okay, Catherine, to accelerate success, what are the countries that should Canada be looking to emulate or to learn from?   Catherine Abreu  28:43 There are lessons that I think we can learn from so many places, and, and likewise, there are a lot of other places I think can learn from us, right? We have we also have some good expertise to be sharing at this point. But I mentioned the UK earlier, I think we've really turned to the UK a lot to help us think through this new piece of legislation because the UK was the first to pass climate accountability legislation way back in 2008. And so they've really helped to model that, that system for the rest of the world. And there are now close to 30 jurisdictions around the world that have very similar systems, actually. So we just saw at COP 26, in Glasgow in November, that a consortium like now a global consortium of independent climate expert bodies has been created to to help continue this dialogue around how we actually hold countries accountable for their climate commitments. So that's, I think, a good one and we can also keep looking to the UK for how we detach our our economic growth, our GDP from greenhouse gas emissions because they have been incredibly successful in doing that in the UK. And that has been a big part of how they have been able to their climate commitments they they successfully decoupled their GDP from GHGs. And we are kind of approaching that point in Canada. But we need to kind of surpass it and make sure that our economic prosperity is not tied to increasing emissions. And that I think, has maybe been a bit of a challenge for a country like Canada that is traditionally very natural resource based, and and very oriented toward exploiting and exporting those natural resources, which is, which tends to be very carbon intensive. So so that economic transformation piece, how are we diversifying our economy? How are we investing in those sectors that are going to deliver prosperity, and we often think about those sectors as like, renewable energy. So we do this, like, we're moving from fossil fuel energy to renewable energy. So all the new prosperity and all the new jobs are going to be in renewable energy. But we can also think about sectors like the care economy, hospitals, nurses, long term care facilities, those are generally low carbon industries, right. And so and we know that we need to invest in them on the heels of the COVID-19 crisis. So we can be investing there. And of course, what that all comes along with is this question of just transition, how are we taking care of people and communities as we engage in this economic transformation, and they're really cool lessons that we can learn from other jurisdictions, they're like Scotland, they have done some really amazing work with just transition as they move away from coal. Similarly, in South Africa, we actually again at COP 26, in Glasgow saw this $8.5 billion deal struck with South Africa between a number of other countries, the US, EU, Germany, to support their just transition away from coal dependence. So I think we can also be looking to these other examples of economic diversification and just transition in parts of the world to inform the really necessary economic transition that we that we need to undertake here in Canada and the planning for that.   Dan Seguin  32:12 In Canada, where do you see the biggest opportunity to reduce greenhouse emissions in nature? And where do you see the biggest opportunity in technology?   Catherine Abreu  32:24 Yeah, so we have talked about this a little bit already. And I think those agricultural opportunities are really huge here in Canada, what we haven't really talked about is, is the devastation that we are seeing wrecked in our natural ecosystems, particularly in forests across Canada. And it's actually hard for me not to get really emotional when I think about it. And, and we have really seen, I think, I think many Canadians, if they, if they think about climate change, if they think about carbon sources and sinks in Canada, they assume that our forests are carbon sinks. And in fact, that has not been the case for several years now, our forests in Canada have really turned from carbon sinks, places that can store greenhouse gas emissions to carbon sources. And that is largely because of ongoing deforestation. And the devastating impacts of climate change that, that bring forest fires that bring, you know, more extreme weather events and also bring pests like the pine beetle. So I think a big part of where we need to be focusing our energy right now in Canada is, is figuring out how to reverse that trend, how to protect our forests, how to restore them, and unnecessary deforestation, deforestation. And, you know, I think a really groundbreaking report that came out this year was on indigenous stewardship of lands and how much lands that are stewarded by indigenous peoples around the world. They really outperform lands that are stewarded by by settler populations in terms of carbon sink potential and biodiversity protection. And so I think actually, a big part of the solution on the forest front here in Canada, is increasing the amount of forests that are stewarded by indigenous communities. So that's on the on the nature front, in terms of carbon reduction potential in technologies, or in the industrial sector, you know, the big elephant in the room and Canada's oil and gas sector. It's the largest and fastest growing source of emissions in the country, it's responsible for over a quarter of emissions in Canada outweighs any other sector in the country. And while we have been actually seeing significant emissions reductions in other sectors, you know, the Canadian electricity sector has reduced its emissions over 30% in the in the last couple of decades, right. So, you know, we've been seeing decarbonisation happen, it hasn't been happening as fast as it needs to, but it has been happening in electricity and buildings and transportation, well, not so much in transportation. I'll take that again, we have been seeing decarbonizing, it hasn't happening as fast as it needs to, but it has been happening and the electricity system and the building system. Meanwhile, we really haven't seen that happening in the oil and gas sector. In fact, emissions from the oil and gas sector have increased exponentially in the last 15 years. And so there's a huge potential for emissions reductions in that sector. And a lot of it involves methane reduction, by applying technologies that we have that we know work right now, that can actually create jobs well, while we apply them, and thinking through how we address our production trends to reduce those emissions. And we actually have now a promise from the federal government to cap emissions in the oil and gas sector and set reduction targets every five years. So I think that's a really good move in the right direction.   Dan Seguin  36:10 Now, in your opinion, Catherine, what can government's learn from environmental advocacy and activism?   Catherine Abreu  36:17 What can the government learn? I mean, obviously, there's so I think, like, what is it that you picture when you picture environmental advocacy and activism? Probably you picture people on the streets, right, the huge demonstrations that characterize the fall of 2019, when, you know, half a million people were on the streets of Montreal, and Greta Thunberg, spoke to the crowd there. You know, protests against fossil fuel infrastructure, the, you know, struggles that we're seeing in communities like what su attend right now against the coastal gaslink. That community really trying to protect their traditional territory and say no to more fossil fuel infrastructure. So I think that's really what comes to mind a lot of the time. But in fact, environmental advocacy and activism has a huge diversity of tactics associated with it, right. So there are a lot of really brilliant people who are also thinking through some of these creative solutions that we need to these tricky problems that we have to solve to address the climate crisis. So a lot of what governments can learn from environmental advocacy and activism is actually like really practical hands on ideas for how we tackle this crisis. And but maybe I'll maybe I'll take this answer in a different direction, and say that part of what we can learn is, is action, in the midst of despair. And I think we often ask ourselves, like, how do we have hope, when we're seeing the escalating impacts of the climate crisis, when we're watching the people we love and the places that we cherish, be so hurt by climate change? How do we in the face of that kind of despair? Respond? How do we have hope people talk about hope all the time. But what I often say is, you know, the, the antidote to despair is not hope, it's action. And the environmental community is all about action. That's, that's really what causes a lot of us to this work is the desire to stand in the face of despair, sand in the face of these devastating climate impacts, and do everything we can to mitigate some of the worst impacts of the climate crisis and figure out how we can build resilience and communities against those impacts. So I think maybe that's the that's the thing that I hand to governments is to say, we all need to be in this together that is the spirit of the environmental movement. And we need to be taking action despite the the challenge despite the scale of the crisis, despite the despair we might be feeling. And in fact that action is is what helps us pull ourselves out of that feeling of despair.   Dan Seguin  39:02 Is there an organization activist or movement that is inspiring you?   Catherine Abreu  39:07 This has been my entire career working in this space and I wouldn't have been able to make it my career if I didn't feel inspired every day by my colleagues and amazing community that I get to be a part of, so it's hard to name any one organization or any one movement. I will say that I am so continuously blown away and touched by the fierce and unrelenting advocacy we see from young people and you know, so we've seen the school strike groups fighting for future and young people mobilizing in various configurations to demand a livable future for themselves and their children. And, and that is I think something that gives a lot of us that lifts up a lot of us and gives us a lot have energy to continue our work. Because really, I was reading this Twitter thread the other day, and the author said, we are fighting because our future is shrinking. And it was, it was so read, it resonated so much to hear that it's true, right? I think for a lot of young people, the possibilities that they envision for themselves in the future, are getting smaller and smaller. And we, as a society, as a species, we need to be thinking about how we expand that future. Again, how we, how we invest right now to make sure that the people who are alive after after you and I are gone. Have all of the options all of the rich life that we have been able to, to explore. So So yeah, maybe I'll say that is that I feel inspired by so many organizations by so much of the movement and the passion, the intelligence is coming from young people right now it's giving I think a lot of us a lot of strength.   Dan Seguin  41:06 Okay, Catherine, how about you close us off with some rapid fire questions? Are you ready?   Catherine Abreu  41:13 I'm ready.   Dan Seguin  41:15 No, Catherine, what is your favorite word?   Catherine Abreu  41:18 'Why?' it's my favorite word, my favorite question. And I'm happy that I really hope I never stop asking it.   Dan Seguin  41:25 Now, what is one thing you can't live without?   Catherine Abreu  41:29 Maybe I'll say my friend, my dog, Fred Pico. He's my nice constant companion and I wouldn't want to live without.   Dan Seguin  41:37 What is something that challenges you?   Catherine Abreu  41:39 I feel challenged by the reluctance that we see from governments to take action. And I feel challenged by that all the time. And we are constantly being told we have the solutions we need, we have the technologies. And the one thing standing in our way is political will. So I feel challenged by that. And that challenge is what brings me to work every day.   Dan Seguin  42:03 Now, if you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Catherine Abreu  42:06 This is a really important question. I have often said that my superpower would be to find the finest party wherever I am always. But I think I'm actually pretty good at that already. So maybe I would, say that I would love to have the power to aperate. So I would love to be able to just appear wherever I wanted to whenever I wanted to.   Dan Seguin  42:30 If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self, what would you tell her,   Catherine Abreu  42:35 I would tell her that she's on the right track, and that her future is not going to look maybe exactly as she pictured it. But that her instinct to really give back to her community and invest in the people around her is going to lead her in the right direction.   Dan Seguin  42:51 And lastly, Catherine, what do you currently find most interesting in your world in your sector?   Catherine Abreu  42:58 That's a really good one. Um, so here's the thing. I actually think a lot of the time are my world that my sector is characterized by kind of like cynicism. And, and certainly a lot of us bring some cynicism to the mix. It's hard not to give in the state of the world. But I would say there's actually this interesting renewed optimism in my world right now, particularly on the heels of COP 26. And that's because it really does seem like the conversation is shifting. And we're starting to talk about the real things right now we're getting down to it. And a big part of that is actually that we're talking seriously about the energy transition. Finally, because this energy transition is the thing that's going to unlock our ability to address the climate crisis, and we need to accelerate that global energy transition. The final plenary at COP 26 All the countries of the world together in a room. It was about it was a debate. It was an hour's long debate about the energy transition. And that's huge, because we actually haven't seen as much direct talk about energy at cops in the past. So that's an interesting thing that's going on. I think a lot of us are actually feeling a little more hopeful that we're finally having these this real talk. So let's let's make sure it gets us to where we need to go.   Dan Seguin  44:18 Well, Catherine, this is it. We've reached the end of another episode of The thinkenergy podcast I truly loved and enjoyed our conversation today. If our listeners want to learn more about you and your organization, how can they connect?   Catherine Abreu  44:33 I've just started a pretty new organization called Destination Zero. And you can find us as destinationzero.Earth, that website is in development but you'll have a landing page right there that gives you my contact information and on Twitter, I'm @catabreu_   Dan Seguin  44:50 Again, thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you had a lot of fun.   Catherine Abreu  44:55 I really don't think so much Daniel.   Dan Seguin  44:58 Thanks for tuning in for anotherepisode of The thinkenergy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review where ever you're listening. And to find out more about today's guests or previous episodes, visit thinkenergypodcast.com. I hope you'll join us again next time as we spark even more conversations about the energy of tomorrow.

Cost, inventory, and access to charging stations are major barriers when making the jump to an electric vehicle. In fact, 71% of Uber drivers across Canada said they’re interested in making the switch, but these factors are holding them back. Uber’s Matthew Price joins Dan Séguin and Rebecca Schwartz for an in-depth look at what the company is doing to help make electric vehicles more accessible to their drivers—and Canadians. Related Content and Links Matthew Price’s Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewprice3/ --- Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:06 This is thinkenergy. The podcast that helps you better understand the fast changing world of energy through conversations with game changers, industry leaders, and influencers. So join me, Dan Seguin, and my co host Rebecca Schwartz, as we explore both traditional and unconventional facets of the energy industry. In this episode, we'll do a deep dive with Uber and discover how they plan to reduce their carbon footprint. I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  00:39 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz. Hey, Dan, have you ever noticed how quickly language changes seemingly overnight? In 2021 words, like Doom-scrolling and adulting were added to the dictionary? While, words like salty were updated with new definitions.   Dan Seguin  00:55 Wait, what salty? What the blank does salty mean now?   Rebecca Schwartz  01:00 Well, it's a term for being bitter, angry or resentful. Like, Dan, don't be salty!   Dan Seguin  01:07 I don't think so. I'm in a great mood. Cool. Anyways, what about popular phrases? The perfect example: It wasn't that long ago, we used to say, let's call a cab. Now it's, let's order an Uber. Between 2017 and 2019, nearly 4 billion rides were taken using Uber in the US and Canada alone. In fact, Uber is the largest mobility platform in the world.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:41 Well, as an avid user myself, there is no question that ride sharing companies like Uber have disrupted the transportation space, providing convenience, accessibility and affordability to riders in nearly every major city around the world. Collectively, ride sharing companies have transformed how we move and commute in our cities, to the point that some critics believe people are foregoing lower carbon forms of transportation, like public transit, biking and walking, resulting in 69% more climate pollution. And that's according to the Union of Concerned Scientists.   Dan Seguin  02:18 With the Canadian government's promise to be zero carbon by 2050. And transportation currently accounted for 28% of Canada's greenhouse gas emissions, there's another disruption and culture shift coming. Recently, Uber released its climate assessment and performance report to address how it plans to aggressively tackle climate change and the missions its business produces,   Rebecca Schwartz  02:44 adopting the mantra that with great power comes great responsibility. Uber is aiming to be an environmental leader and game changer in the mobility and ride sharing space. So here's today's big question: stating that it will be a zero emissions platform by 2040, what are some of the innovative strategies and incentives Uber is introducing to address its carbon footprint?   Dan Seguin  03:07 I'm really interested to talk about what those are in today's show with our very special guest, Matthew Price. Matthew is the general manager of Uber Canada. During Matthew's time at Uber, he helped lead its transformation in Europe, across 15 countries for some of Uber's most strategic cross functional programs. Bonjour Matthew, welcome to the show, perhaps you could start us off by telling us a bit more about yourself and your role at Uber,   Matthew Price  03:38 well, Bonjour and thank you for having me on today. So I'm Matthew price, proud Canadian sustainability enthusiast, and also the general manager of Uber Canada. I joined Uber back in 2015, based in Europe, so a front row seat to how this topic has evolved across that continent helping to implement many of Ubers early policies in terms of driving the green resolution there. And then the privilege then to come back to Canada in 2019. To take on this role, and you know, help Uber start its journey to Mission Zero in Canada. So in my role, I'm responsible for our vision and strategy, the overall performance of our business health of our team and you know, importantly, the customer experience both both riders and drivers.   Rebecca Schwartz  04:22 Thanks, Matthew. Now, can you tell us more about Uber green, and the uptake thus far by customers?   Matthew Price  04:28 Absolutely. So Uber green is our low emissions, right option, electric or hybrid. It is in 16 cities across Canada today. And as an Uber user, you can effectively select Uber green in your app. To request that hybrid or electric ride. It's $1 more than than your Uber X ride, but you're getting to experience something very different. We made a commitment at Uber to be fully emissions zero by 2030. And cities that have supportive policies and 2040 everywhere, globally. In this uber Green was one of our first actions to actually make the commitment a reality. And I will say, I do think, you know, we in ride sharing are really at the next frontier, and can have a real impact here in catalyzing this change. And let me just quickly tell you why. You know, as you might know, gas powered vehicles account for about three quarters of greenhouse gas emissions to transportation and cities today. But not all of those cars are created equal ride sharing drivers use their vehicles much more than your average car owner. And in fact, if, if a driver makes a switch to electric vehicle, you see three to four times greater emission savings compared to your average car. So if you think of the millions of drivers that we as Uber have on the streets across the world, if even a small portion of those drivers make the switch to Go Electric, that's a huge push to getting zero emission transportation off the ground. And importantly, contributing to the scale, that's going to be required to bring down the cost of vehicles and increase the availability of charging, which will we'll talk a lot more about here today.   Rebecca Schwartz  06:01 Alright, so has this resulted in an uptake for drivers to transition to electric vehicles?   Matthew Price  06:07 so drivers that come to our platform with electric vehicle, they have an opportunity to earn $1 more on any trip they take. And if it's an Uber green trip $1.50 More, which at scale is a significant increase in earnings, which, as we know, is really important when it comes to electric vehicles. Because these cars, these vehicles are still, you know, more expensive today than your your internal combustion vehicle. But at the same time, as I mentioned, there are real barriers here in terms of the cost and access to the vehicle and the availability of charging, which is why it's going to take partnership across the ecosystem to drive the uptake that we all want to see. And and I'll give you example of one of the things that we're doing there to make that happen. And I'm really proud to say we just announced yesterday, the following, which is we did a survey of drivers in Canada, 71% of them are interested in switching to electric vehicle, which is big, but you also hear from them that charging is a significant barrier. So we announced a partnership yesterday with Green Lots, which is a member of the shell group to actually create three new charging stations in Vancouver. That's one of the leading EV markets in North America for Uber. And effectively this is Ubers first exclusive partnership across North America to give drivers and delivery people access to fast charging, and access to fast charging at a discounted rate that will make it cheaper than charging at their home. So it's a pilot. It's a blueprint, but it is the type of thing that we need to replicate across Canada and globally to drive that uptake in terms of drivers transitioning to electric vehicles.   Dan Seguin  07:38 That's really interesting, Matthew. Now, Uber recently published its climate assessment and performance report. What were the biggest takeaways from the report? And was there anything that surprised you from the data?   Matthew Price  07:53 Yeah, let me let me talk you through a couple of the key insights in that report. So the first one is that the efficiency of trips with Uber actually improve as ridership grows, let me let me explain what that means, which is from 2017 to the end of 2019. Our average active much monthly ridership, it grew by 36%. But carbon intensity declined by 6%. If you look at that, that three year period, the efficiency improvement results in about a half million metric tons of avoided CO2 and 56 million gallons of gasoline conserved. Interestingly, though, the performance is even more efficient in cities. So you know, again, if you look at the 2019, the carbon intensity of rides in our top 10 metros across North America was about five and a half percent lower than Uber average. And even lower if you look at the the largest cities. But the last thing I'll say there is that we found and reported there that Uber drivers, on average, use hybrid vehicles about five and a half times more than your average car. And that speaks to what I mentioned before in terms of, you know, transitioning one Uber driver into an electric or in this case, a hybrid vehicle has an outsized impact in terms of taking, taking dirty miles and putting clean miles on our streets. I will say the other thing in there is we've referenced a number of policies that we think are going to be important to to kind of accelerate the, the revolution here towards green. Things like increasing the quality and availability of local transit, micro mobility infrastructure, we should talk a bit about that road pricing that includes all vehicles, increasing drivers access to cleaner and electric vehicles, as well as charging availability. And that all really helped inform the actions that we've taken as an organization to work towards the 2030/2040 goal.   Rebecca Schwartz  09:54 Okay, so as a global company with a global impact. I've read that you're developing some innovative strategies to be a zero emission platform by 2040. Can you tell us what are some of those strategies and how you guys plan to get there?   Matthew Price  10:10 Would love to and I touched on a few but but let me let me elaborate. So the way we think about it is, you know, commitments, one thing has to be coupled with action. And there's four key actions that that we're taking. So, you know, the first I've already spoken about, which is expanding ubergreen, you know, and that's gonna give consumers those of us that don't own electric vehicle today an opportunity to experience what it's like, which I think is going to be really important to letting people experience the magic that is an electric vehicle and kind of have that motivate their own choices moving forward. The second one is helping drivers then transition to electric vehicles, we definitely don't have as many on the streets as we need today to service the demand that's there for green. I mentioned green lights already as one way we're doing this. Another instance here, for example, is we have a partnership with General Motors to offer all eligible Uber drivers, effectively the employee discount on a Chevy bolt, which is important to bring down the upfront cost, which which we know is high. And you know, this is important, in addition to federal funding that is that is currently available. We are also investing in our multimodal network. So I mentioned this a moment ago, what that means is, it's going to take more than just offering electric vehicles to fully get to our sustainability goals, we also need to drive mode shifting, which means we need to integrate lime into our app, we've actually done this in Ottawa, where you can now get E bikes and scooters through the Uber app. And we need more partnerships with local transit authorities to give you information and help you figure out how to combine Uber with transit to get to where you need to go. And the last thing I'll say here is we need to be accountable. The Climate report we just talked about is one step in that direction. But it's really just the start, we want to bring our data to the public to the table to discuss how we do this because this is a team sport, we cannot do this alone, it is going to take private and public industry coming together and working towards what I think we all think is a common goal.   Dan Seguin  12:11 Now, Matthew, what are some of the biggest barriers and challenges you've identified in your roadmap to zero emissions?   Matthew Price  12:19 So I've touched on a couple, let me quickly reiterate those and I'll add a couple more. So I mean, when when we talk to drivers, again, 70% of what you're interested, it is the cost and the access to the vehicle, keeping in mind that the inventory is not there today for people who want the vehicles. And then it's the the access to charging. In fact, there's a study that came out of California not long ago, that shows unfortunately, one in four electric vehicle drivers switch back to a gas car because of how painful it is to charge which is a problem. So So you know, against those I mentioned earlier that, you know, part of evergreen is about people getting to experience what an electric vehicle is, today electric vehicle is is often, you know, a luxury for more wealthy households, often people kind of buying their second or third vehicle and having it be electric. But the data shows that, you know, every electric vehicle on our platform, on average touches 100 different riders. So you know, that gives a lot of people the opportunity to experience an electric ride. And the reason that's important is that scale is going to help kind of catalyze the shift, which means the scale will lead to more demand for vehicles and over time lower battery costs that bring down the cost. The scale off also offers the demand, that's going to be required to get the charging infrastructure to be installed and have the utilization required to make the economics work for those for those asset owners. So think that's really important. I mentioned earlier that it's going to take more than just private cars. So we need multimodal, we need the regulatory framework in place to roll out multimodal. And the one of the things I'll add to this, it's also about education. There's a lot of people, you know, who don't fully understand what an electric vehicle is what it's like to drive, one of the things we recently did was was rolled out an EV calculator, which means you can now go on and compare as an Uber driver, the cost of a current internal combustion versus electric vehicle through the lens of a driver, including all the subsidies and local benefits available to get a sense for what your total cost of ownership is and what it takes to get it on par. So as I've as I said here a couple times, early days on this journey, I think we know what the barriers are. We don't know how to address all of them, but we also know we're not gonna be able to do this alone.   Rebecca Schwartz  14:40 So Matthew, the integration of multimodal network is innovative, including the incorporation of public transit tickets, lime scooters, and bike rentals and even carpooling to help commuters get from point A to point B. So can you touch on these and tell us why this was the right step in Ubers evolution?   Matthew Price  15:00 Absolutely. And let me let me first talk a little bit more about transit. And I think about it like this today. Most people when they leave their house, they grab their keys, and I hop into their car. And we need to give Canadians something that for the first time is sufficiently convenient that they might consider doing something different, which needs to be more than just offering Uber X and Uber green. But it also needs to be offering new transit options, electric bike and scooter options to effectively help create, you know, a suite of solutions, that makes it more likely you're going to forego the car. And that's important because that car sits idle 95% of the time. And the other 5% is often in meeting carbon emissions with only one person in the vehicle. So the new thing we've done, just in the last few weeks, is rolled out for now just in the GTA, a product called Uber plus transit. And it's a combination of two of our existing products. Uber X and journey planning and how it works is when it convenient routes available, we will actually now help you find an Uber X to the closest transit stop, and then give you the information about how to get to your final destination using public transit. So it's you know, we find that unique ways to combine the two to get you where you want to go, sometimes faster, oftentimes cheaper. And we've integrated this with public transit across the GTA, we're watching the data very closely to see see how it performs. And definitely something we want to roll out across this country to continue to deepen the integration with with public transit, I think it's really, really important as part of the solution. And I think every everyone's you know, everyone, when going from point A to point B, you know, they're they're solving for a slightly different set of things. For some people, it's about what's the green assumption for some people, that's what's the fastest option for some people, it's what's the cheapest option. And you know, I want to I want to offer Canadians ways to solve for all of that, and ways to do it in the most environmentally conscious way.   Dan Seguin  17:00 Okay, Matthew, wondering if you could expand on key takeaways from your operations and the overall impact from this past year during shelter in place, and the golden age of food delivery?   Matthew Price  17:14 Yeah, I mean, we often get this question in terms of, you know, look, you made this, this this commitment to be zero emissions in late 2020. You know, why then? you know, when and, you know, for us COVID-19 was not a barrier, a challenge, it was actually the catalyst to do this. And the reason and we all saw this was for a period of time there, when we looked at our window, we saw our cities breathing again, for the first time, and if you look at the data, carbon emissions, were actually down for a period of time, as we were all sheltering in place. You know, as the industry leader in Canada, we knew we had an obligation, we have responsibility to take advantage of a moment like that, and figuring out how we can build back better, very much aligned to, you know, the leadership, our Canadian government, shown, very much aligned to the Paris Climate Agreement. And that really spawned the commitment around sustainability. And, and the beginning of that, of course, very focused throughout the pandemic, on helping Canadians in need move safely. In terms of helping, you know, drivers find a flexible earning opportunity that for many people was was necessary during, you know, a really big economic crisis. But, you know, we kept the sustainability aspirations front and center. And I'm really pleased, this is one of the ways that we are building back better. And, you know, in some sense of silver lining for what's been a really, really difficult time for all of us over the last 18 months.   Rebecca Schwartz  18:44 Okay, let's talk about government and industry partnerships, including Ubers advocacy for key policy reform, what are some of the changes you'd like to see in these new collaborations for the transportation sector?   Matthew Price  18:57 There's no silver bullet here. And, you know, it's going to take all parties coming together, you know, solving for our common goal as, as Canadians and what is the biggest challenge of our generation, in terms of how to make this this kind of low carbon future a reality. There's a long list of things here at the federal level, at the provincial level, at the municipal level. I'll say to that, I think are particularly important to, you know, how we catalyze a lot of what we've talked about here from using ride sharing as a way to share this. You know, one, we've talked about it, we think Uber green is really important in terms of, you know, helping people experience electric, which will help people upgrade to their own electric vehicle will help create some of the the demand required to bring down the cost to make this happen. There's ways that cities can incentivize the use of Uber green. You know, what we've seen in a number of cities, Vancouver's done it. In fact, Pearson airports done it, is they've actually reduced the per trip fee on zero emission vehicles, which makes it for you as a rider cheaper to take to take a green truck. And I do think, you know, there's there's an opportunity to do more of that, to help to to, to, you know, enable that part of what's going to be a key part of the the transition. I think the other thing is, you know, there's real opportunities for us to work as a, you know, ride sharing and taxi industry to think about how to do this in the right way. And you know, very much encouraging cities across the country to create a vehicle for higher working group, bring the right stakeholders to the table, that's going to be all levels of government, it's going to be the private transport companies, taxi companies, utilities, others, and let's talk about things like what are the barriers? And really specific barriers in that specific city? what are best practices we can bring from other jurisdictions? What's the roadmap to get there? There's no silver bullet, as I said, off the top. But, you know, it's these types of things, often with government leading, supported by organizations like ours that will get us to where we need to be.   Dan Seguin  21:10 And Matthew, does Canada's commitment to zero carbon by 2050 make collaboration easier compared to other countries?   Matthew Price  21:18 I think the answer to that is absolutely. We need that constructive relationship we talked about with local government, there's no other way to do it. And very much seen that and I'm just really pleased and proud as a Canadian to see our government leading in the space. You know, partnerships, like what I've talked about here with Greenlaw are going to be key. The way we kind of take that blueprint and expanded across the country is in part with government helping to pave the way.   Dan Seguin  21:45 Now in Canada, more than 3 million people use Uber regularly across 18 cities. I'm curious about Ottawa, what is your data telling you about our mobility habits?   Matthew Price  21:58 happy to share some data on on Ottawa, one of our early Canadian cities that we that we brought Uber to, I'll tell you the following. So most most trips in Ottawa happened during commuting times. 8am 4pm To be specific, and of course, on weekends. I can tell you that the people of Ottawa had a lot of fun on Halloween, a really big spike over Halloween weekend. And some of the top destinations in Ottawa are the Rideau center ByWard Market area, Elgin street downtown, via rail station and TD place stadium. Ottawa is a really, really important city for us. And one, you know, in particular, where we are excited to partner with all levels of government and, you know, organizations such as hydro Ottawa, to to make this green future reality.   Rebecca Schwartz  22:51 Okay, Matthew, we're coming to the end. So how about we close off with some rapid fire questions? Are you ready? What is your favorite word?   Matthew Price  23:01 Oh, hello. Maybe that's my most frequent word. If nothing else,   Rebecca Schwartz  23:08 tell us one thing you absolutely cannot live without?   Matthew Price  23:11 music.   Rebecca Schwartz  23:13 What is something that challenges you?   Matthew Price  23:15 I would say how to integrate work and life. I love both sides of that equation so much. There's only so much time in a day and how you balance the two continues to be a real challenge for me.   Rebecca Schwartz  23:26 If you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Matthew Price  23:29 I would love the ability to pause time and lengthen those kinds of special moments are busy workdays to get a bit more.   Rebecca Schwartz  23:39 Now let's say you were talking to your 18 year old self, what would you tell him?   Matthew Price  23:44 Life is short. And there's no substitute for passion and doing things that you love.   Rebecca Schwartz  23:49 And lastly, what do you find most interesting in your sector right now.   Matthew Price  23:54 This one probably won't be a surprise given the conversation we just had. But I think ride sharing it's fundamentally changed how people move around our cities. I think the next frontier is for ride sharing to fundamentally catalyze this electric revolution.   Dan Seguin  24:07 Well, Matthew, we've reached the end of another episode of The think energy podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you had a lot of fun.   Matthew Price  24:17 I did indeed. It was great to meet you both. Thank you for having me on and all the good work you're doing to to help make Ottawa a green city.   Dan Seguin  24:28 Thanks for tuning in for another episode of The thinkenergy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review whereever you're listening. And to find out more about today's guest or previous episodes, visit thinkenergypodcast.com I hope you will join us again next time as we spark even more conversations about the energy of tomorrow.

This week, we have a special holiday episode of the ThinkEnergy podcast. Inspired by one of our favourite Christmas movies, A Christmas Carol, we’re here to present some podcast “ghosts” of past, present and future. Get ready to buckle up because we’re going on an adventure to recap three of our top episodes from 2021. Related Content & Links:  Second Harvest - https://secondharvest.ca  --- Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:53 Ho, ho, ho, everyone. Welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast and I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:00 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz.   Dan Seguin  01:02 This week, we have a very special holiday episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast, inspired by one of my favorite Christmas movies, A Christmas Carol. We're here to present some podcast ghosts of the past, the present, and future.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:23 Ooh, podcast ghost - sounds spooky. Should we be worried? What do you have in store for us, Dan?   Dan Seguin  01:30 That just building some suspense for you. But get ready to buckle up? Because we're going on an adventure to recap three of the top episodes from this year.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:42 I'm ready. Dan, where should we start?   Dan Seguin  01:44 Let's start with the Ghost of Christmas Past. In the movie, the ghost represents memory. So let's take a trip down memory lane to our episode on how Ontario used to burn coal as an energy source: A reminder of how far we've come in the energy industry to clean up our energy supply mix. Back in 2003 25% of electricity in Ontario came from coal plants. Did you know cold emissions were a major source of air pollution that contributed to 53 smog days in Ontario alone in 2005. That same year, my great City of Ottawa had 25. For those that may not know smog days would be declared in the province on days when the air wasn't as safe to breathe. Due to the amount of toxins in the air in 2014. Ontario was the first jurisdiction in North America to completely eliminate coal as a source of electricity production. According to air quality, Ontario, the province phased out of coal has been considered to have achieved the most significant results of any climate change initiative in North America to date. Now, today 94% of electricity generated in Ontario is emission free, and those smog advisories are all but a thing of the past. There's no doubt that Ontario has been a leader in fighting climate change and investing in cleaner energy sources. By 2030. Canada will phase out traditional coal fired electricity in the country altogether, striving to have 90% of electricity from non emitting sources, and simultaneously cutting carbon pollution from the electricity sector by 12 point 8 million tons.   Rebecca Schwartz  03:48 This is a great reminder. What did our guest or should I say ghost have to say about this transition away from coal in this episode?   Dan Seguin  03:56 I'm glad you asked Rebecca. Here's what Gideon Foreman had to say:   Gideon Forman  04:02 In terms of the impacts. The biggest impact that we talked about now is the climate impact. The coal plants at their height were the equivalent of millions of cars on our roads. When we took the coal plants out it was like removing 6 million cars from Ontario's roads. So they were a very, very significant source of greenhouse gases. And they also produced other things that were toxic things like mercury, for example, and arsenic. So they were also a significant source of human health problems. They made asthma worse, what they call the particulate matter in smog. Some of that came from coal plants and particulate matter is a factor in lung cancer. So a number of different ailments were connected to the coal plants.   Dan Seguin  04:47 And here's what he said about the case for eliminating coal fired electricity in Ontario.   Gideon Forman  04:53 The Case for closing the coal plants was that they were just a massive, massive source of greenhouse gas emissions and other contributors to pollution, things like nitrous oxides and sulfur oxide, sulfur dioxide. So they were contributing to climate change, they were contributing to acid rain, and they were contributing to human illness on a very big scale. And the other reason that it made sense to close them was it was something doable. In Ontario, because they were publicly owned, there was an opportunity to do it in quite a rapid and efficient manner. You know, in many places, coal plants are privately owned, in the United States, for example. And so if they're privately owned, it's very difficult to close them quickly. There's all sorts of issues around compensation and government has to step in. And it can be very complicated legally. But in Ontario, all the coal plants are owned by the government of Ontario. So the government of Ontario could close them basically through the stroke of a pen. And that's what happened, it was over a number of years. But that's what happened, the Ontario government decided that by 2014, they would no longer be coal used to produce electricity in the province. And that's what happened. So it was a matter of something that would have huge impact. And that was doable. That was kind of the thinking behind it. In terms of backlash, there wasn't a lot of backlash. There were some who raised concerns about the transition, loss of jobs for workers in the coal plants. There were some questions about electricity supply. But for the most part, I think there was a lot of public acceptance that we had to get off coal, this was something really good to do from an air quality point of view. And increasingly, from a climate change point of view. In terms of who drove the coal phase out, a lot of it was pushed by health professionals, the Ontario Medical Association, doctors, including some of the doctors that I work with, in physicians for the environment, nurses, Ontario, public health officials, medical officers of health, these sorts of people and family physicians, these sorts of people saw firsthand the effect of smog of bad air on people's lives. And they talked openly about it. And so was very much driven, I think, by the health professionals. I remember one time, Dan, when I was working with the physicians for environment, we we arranged a meeting to meet with the Minister of Environment for the province of Ontario and I brought in doctors I brought in nurses and we had an opportunity to talk across the table with the minister. And it was just fascinating for the Minister to see firsthand the effect of coal on people's lives in a very direct way. I remember one of our doctors from Kingston. She said, you know, Minister, there are times when the weather when the air quality is so poor, that my patients can't go outside, and I really worry for them. And if you close the coal plants, this would make a huge difference in the lives of my patients. And you could see the minister really connecting with that at a very human level. So it wasn't just an abstraction for our doctors. And so I think that was one of the driving forces behind the coal plant phase out.   Rebecca Schwartz  08:03 Boy, am I ever glad that smog warnings are now vague and distant memory. I'm so grateful for everyone who stood up for eliminating coal. It makes me excited for how much more we can do for a cleaner energy.   Dan Seguin  08:16 Now, are you ready for us to dive into the next one? This time, I have a podcast ghosts of Christmas present for you. Now this ghost represents generosity and goodwill. So the episode we'll be revisiting is The Birds and the Bees about Pollinator Meadows, where we chat about a sustainable approach to building out electrical infrastructure, one that supports the vegetation and wildlife. Did you know that across North America, the populations of Monarch butterflies, bees and other pollinators are in a steep decline due to herbicides, pesticides, climate change, and a reduction in natural pollinator habitats. pollinators are responsible for a third of the world's food supply, so they are extremely vital to our existence in Canada. There are more than 1000 species of pollinating animals that are responsible for billions of dollars worth of Canadian farm produce flowers, and ecosystems that rely on pollination. In short, without pollinators, food supply would suffer drastically. It may seem like an unlikely Union, but utilities like hydro Ottawa are ideally suited to restore these environments, thanks to a number of utility corridors and properties in their service territories, not to mention the kilometers of power lines and right aways along roadsides. Moreover, vegetation along utility corridors are compatible with these types of vegetation necessary to support pollinators. In 2019, hydro Ottawa began civil construction of its largest ever municipal transformer station in the south end of Ottawa, situated on 24 acres of land since the new transformer station requires only five acres of property, hydro Ottawa partnered with the city of Ottawa Rito Valley Conservation Authority and the Canadian Wildlife Federation to create one of the largest pollinator meadows of its kind in Eastern Ontario, adjacent to this future station. The agreement means that 15 acres will be dedicated to a pollinator meadow, which is scheduled for seeding. In the spring of 2021, a four acre tree reforestation area was reforested in 2020, with 2750 trees, thanks to the Rita River Conservation Authority. Tracy Etwell, a restoration ecologist with the Canadian Wildlife Federation, and Megan McDonald, Lake planning and shoreline stewardship coordinator for the Rideau Valley Conservation Authority. Join me for this episode to share what goes into a successful pollinator meadow and how we can as an industry, and as ordinary citizens generously help the movement by building more pollinator Meadows.   Tracy Etwell  11:39 Utilities are a key player in our pollinator restoration efforts as they maintain over 160,000 kilometers of transmission lines 1000s of generation stations across Canada, which has huge potential for pollinator habitat restoration, also their linear design are relatively easy for pollinators to find. Since utilities need to control the woody species over the long term along these facilities. It provides a great place for the wildflowers and grasses to grow. And it provides a great opportunity for utilities to demonstrate environmental leadership and provide the habitat. That's that's a win win for the utilities and the pollinators.  So the Canadian Wildlife Federation is committed to supporting pollinators for both our diverse biodiversity and our food supply. As you mentioned, many of the nutritious plants eat such as fruits and vegetables rely on insect pollination, and 90% of the world's flowering plants rely on insect pollination. So it's critical that as a global society, we support these insect pollinators. Now our project is focused on a variety of support such as technical expertise in building these meadows, increasing the native seed supply in Ontario, and providing case studies of the costs and benefits of restoring meadow habitat. We work with interested managers to develop their respective projects. And we've also only recently formed the Canadian branch of rights of way within the US rights of way habitat working group to enhance our network so that we have more access to resources, case studies and best practices.   Rebecca Schwartz  13:04 I love that utilities are working together with ecologists and stewardship coordinators to think outside the box and to discover new approaches that are environmentally sustainable. Birds and bees, while they may be small creatures, make our world a better place in so many ways. And I'm so glad that we're looking out for them. Thanks for another great recap, Dan. Tell us where are you leaving us for the podcast Ghost of Christmas Future.   Dan Seguin  13:31 So in the movie, The Ghost of Christmas Future represents something pretty grim. The fear of death.   Rebecca Schwartz  13:39 I forgot about that. I'm not sure I'm prepared for this now.   Dan Seguin  13:43 Nah, don't worry. The closest we've come to that theme on our podcast is probably our crisis communications episode. But I'd like to take a more uplifting approach and share the final recap that looks to the future through a positive lens. For this reason, my next and last podcast Ghost of Christmas Future is unlocking a sustainable energy future with today's youth. Much like the podcast Ghost of Christmas Present., we celebrate environmental stewardship in this episode, but also the exciting possibilities for upcoming generations to unlock.   Rebecca Schwartz  14:24 Ah, now we're talking let's go.   Dan Seguin  14:27 With every new generation that comes of age, there's a fresh perspective introduced to the table. Young people offer incredible opportunities for change with their new ideas and verve. However, part of the challenge for young people around the world is finding a platform from which their voice can be heard and valued. Without well established networks and resources. Young people can easily be stifled or forgotten. Thankfully, when it comes to the energy sector, climate change, and what's in store for the future, an organization by the name of student energy seeks to bridge that gap. Student energy is a global youth led non for profit organization that strives to empower young people to accelerate their sustainable energy transition. They connect young people to global changemakers and provide them access to decision making spaces, so that they have opportunities to play a part in their energy future. They started with three driven students who, in 2009, is set out to organize the first international student energy summit. Since then, it has expanded into a global organization, with programs engaging over 50,000 students from over 120 countries, alumni are going on to develop and implement renewable energy technologies, advise the United Nations and advocate for a clean energy future while working with some of the largest energy companies.  In this episode Shakti Ramkumar, Director of Communications and policy for student energy shares about how the energy industry utilities, and we, as individuals can support youth in establishing a sustainable energy future.   Shakti Ramkumar  16:34 I think there are two main things that we've recognized are distinct about young people's values when it comes to the energy transition that kind of makes this era of the environment and climate movement a little bit different than the previous era. One is the timeline in which young people expect action. We're seeing commitments now, finally, from companies and governments about aiming for net zero emissions by 2050. And young people who are climate activists are saying, Okay, that's good, but we need to see action right now. And that's why our Global Youth Energy Outlook actually works on a timeline leading up to 2030, not 2050, as we will have to take drastic climate action by then if we want to act in accordance with climate science. So as the years pass, and our global climate commitments are still not strong enough to meet the 1.5 degree target that we've set as a collective, the sense of urgency among young people, I think, is something that is really distinct. The second big value that we've seen from young people is that we're not siloed in our thinking, and that young people won't consider it a success, if we successfully decarbonize our energy system, are the harms that the current energy system has inflicted on people and communities, and haven't made sure that the benefits of the Clean Energy Transition are equitably distributed. So an emphasis on seeing energy as a mechanism through which we can build a more just and equitable society is something that is a really strong value for young people that I think it's something new, to the energy transition. And on the question of what can older generations do at student energy, we really value intergenerational collaboration, we have a lot to learn from people who have set up the energy system as it is now about the complexities and the nuances of producing distributing supplying energy. So we really value intergenerational collaboration. And there's three main things that I think older generations can do, particularly those with resources or power to make decisions. One very simple invest in young people that can look like financially supporting youth led organizations, youth led projects, or investing time through mentorship and guidance to is understand the value of youth, a lot of organizations, we want them to really think, are we meaningfully engaging with young people? What can we do to meaningfully and equitably engage with young people, not just on a tokenistic basis, but on a really kind of equal relationship. And this is something student energy often works with organizations to help them figure out especially if they're navigating youth engagement for the very first time. And the third thing, I would say is to create space for young people, older generations who have access to a large platform or an influential position. Think actively about how you can make young space for young people using that privilege. Whether this looks like asking an event organizer, why there are no young people on the panel and recommending some young people showing that panel, whether it looks like bringing up in a meeting, why we're not funding youth led organizations, or taking into consideration the youth voice when making that next strategy, that next plan. These are some tangible ways that older generations can really support young people.   Dan Seguin  19:48 How's that for inspiration? Feeling empowered Rebecca?   Rebecca Schwartz  19:52 Not gonna lie. I definitely feel fired up by all that Shakti had to say there. So how are you going to support me Dan? Fresh, hip, young mind that I am   Dan Seguin  20:02 Funny you should say that because I'm about to put you on the hot seat. You know how we always end off with some rapid fire questions? Well today, it's your turn to answer them. So, over to you. Now, Rebecca, what is your favorite word?   Rebecca Schwartz  20:23 My favorite word is Pomplamoose...like grapefruit just has a roll off the tongue type of thing.   Dan Seguin  20:33 Sure. What is the one thing you can't live without?   Rebecca Schwartz  20:37 My cats.   Dan Seguin  20:38 Now, what is something that challenges you?   Rebecca Schwartz  20:42 waking up in the morning   Dan Seguin  20:44 You're not a morning person?   Rebecca Schwartz  20:47 It eems not.   Dan Seguin  20:49 If you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Rebecca Schwartz  20:53 Definitely teleportation.   Dan Seguin  20:55 Now this one should be interesting. If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self, what would you tell her?   Rebecca Schwartz  21:04 I would tell her to keep saying yes to opportunities and that you'll go way further that way.   Dan Seguin  21:10 And lastly, Rebecca, what's on your wish list this holiday season?   Rebecca Schwartz  21:15 Okay, so there's a little bit not so much a rapid fire question. But I'm really passionate about food security and reducing waste. So my wish would be that those who can give choose to give this holiday season and a really good place to start is an organization that I'm really fond of. It's called Second Harvest. And they're a Food Rescue charity with a dual mission of providing hunger relief and environmental protection. And they redistribute overstock surplus food across Canada and all provinces and territories. And they feed things like school programs, senior centers, food banks, and the like. So if you have an appetite to donate this holiday season, we'll include a link in our show notes.   Dan Seguin  21:57 Very cool. Well, dear listeners, we've reached the end of another episode of The think energy podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you had a lot of fun and happy holidays.   Rebecca Schwartz  22:11 Happy holidays Dan, and to you our listeners. I sure hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. If so please head over to our iTunes SUBSCRIBE And leave us a review.   Dan Seguin  22:24 Now For show notes and bonus content visit thinkenergypodcast.ca. Also, be sure to tell your friends and colleagues about us.   Rebecca Schwartz  22:33 Thank you for listening

The energy sector, specifically electricity, is evolving at a rapid pace. But some folks may not realize that 94 per cent of Ontario’s electricity is generated without producing any greenhouse gas emissions. That’s pretty remarkable. So, what can customers expect from their local hydro utility today and in the future? How are they influenced by the government and its regulators? Teresa Sarkesian, the President and CEO of the Electricity Distributors Association, is here with us today to fill us in. Related Content & Links:  Teresa Sarkesian’s Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teresa-sarkesian-53898613 EDA website: https://www.eda-on.ca/  --- Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:33 Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast. And in today's episode, we'll explore the need for our sector to have a collective voice. I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:03 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz. Dan, I don't know if you knew this, but before starting at Hydro Ottawa, I never really gave electricity much thought it was just kind of something that was always there. I didn't really know before starting here, just how much a local utility company did, how they are really on the frontlines every day keeping our complex electricity grid working and the lights on for all of us.   Dan Seguin  01:26 Or probably what a regulated industry is in Ontario, or that utilities don't even make the profit from selling energy.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:36 Definitely. And with Hydro Ottawa being a private company, it seems a little counterintuitive.   Dan Seguin  01:42 Yeah. Local hydro utilities, also known as local distribution companies distribute power from high voltage transmission lines: those big metal towers you see, to lower voltage hydro poles, so that it can be safe enough for more than 5 million residential, business, industrial and institutional customers across our province.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:07 Yep. And that includes the installation and maintenance of power lines, pools, underground cables, metering, implementing electrical vehicle infrastructure, and in some cases, even generating electricity themselves through renewable energy sources.   Dan Seguin  02:23 The energy sector specifically electricity is evolving at a rapid pace. But some folks may not realize that 94% of Ontario's electricity is generated without producing any greenhouse gas emissions. That's pretty remarkable. So here's today's big question: What can customers expect from their local hydro utility today? And in the future? How are they influenced by the government and its regulators?   Rebecca Schwartz  02:55 Our guest today is Teresa Sarkesian, and the President and CEO of Electricity Distributors Association. Teresa, welcome to the show. Perhaps you could start us off by telling us a little bit about yourself and what the electricity Distributors Association does.   Teresa Sarkesian  03:15 Well, thank you so much, Rebecca, and Dan, and I'm delighted to be here today. So a little bit about myself. I joined the EDA 12 years ago, after successive positions working in the public policy and advocacy space in the provincial government with a lobby firm and another industry association in the manufacturing sector. I've been president and CEO for over five years now, which I can't believe it really has flown by quickly. As for the association, the Electricity Distributors Association is the voice of Ontario's electricity distribution sector to decision makers at Queen's Park. We are the trusted and vital source for advocacy insight information for Ontario's LDCs. The municipally owned privately owned companies that safely and reliably deliver electricity to over 5 million Ontario homes, businesses and public institutions. Our mission is to provide our local distribution companies with a valued industry knowledge, networking opportunities and collective action vital to the business success of each member. And our vision is to shape the future for LDCs to be the premier service providers to Ontarians in the evolving energy system.   Dan Seguin  04:20 As the voice for more than 60 local distribution companies. Maybe you can talk about the power of local hydro campaign, its purpose, and what you're trying to convey to residents of Ontario,   Teresa Sarkesian  04:34 Of course, so in 2018, the EDA launched its innovative and award winning power of local hydro campaign, which is a public relations program designed to position and promote the local hydro utilities to government and the public. The goal of the campaign was to raise awareness and visibility of the sector and the value they provide to customers and communities. That value includes providing safe and reliable electricity service support to customers on innovative programs and solutions and providing economic support through dividends. So communities can invest in roads, hospitals, and recreation centers. One of the most important aspects of the campaign is that customers count on and trust the local utility to keep the lights on and help them manage their energy use. We have the trust because we work with our customers one on one in the communities where they live, work and play LDCs have a customer first mindset, which is communicated through the campaign with the tagline being on the frontlines of power,   Dan Seguin  05:34 Being in public affairs. I'm looking forward to your response for the next question. Does the campaign have more significance in any election year like 2022? And if so, why?   Teresa Sarkesian  05:47 Yes, Dan, I think the power of local hydro campaign has more significance during an election year. As distributors, we continue to have our fingers on the pulse of what Ontarians want from their electricity system. And we want to help customers better understand the evolving electricity system now that electricity is being seen as the answer to many climate change and netzero challenges. Customers will turn to their local utility to ask questions and seek advice on a wide range of electricity matters. And similarly, candidates and politicians will monitor what EDA has to say around electricity issues, as they understand that LDCs are on the frontlines with customers and know what is important to them.   Rebecca Schwartz  06:29 So, Teresa, your organization has communicated that Ontario's power system is changing and that local utilities are on the front lines. What exactly do you mean by that?   Teresa Sarkesian  06:39 customer demands and expectations are changing both in terms of interest in using new technologies, as well as service oriented expectations. Many households and businesses are embracing new ways to manage their power use while exploring electric vehicles, solar panel installation, battery storage switching from gas to electric heating, through ground source heat pumps, and other cost saving technologies that help reduce energy waste. Customers are looking for information and advice to connect to the distribution grid and possibly sell their surplus generation or storage back to the grid. The relationship with the customer is now developing into a two way street much more dynamic and integrated than in the past, when the flow of energy was one way only, and LDCs are well positioned to facilitate electrification of the economy, such as supporting the development of electric vehicle charging infrastructure, and to capitalize on the opportunities related to energy storage from electric vehicles connecting to the grid LDCs are ready and able to assist, operate and own charging infrastructure services to plug in the growing demand for private and public electrify transportation. We want to work with government and third parties to help customers explore these options safely and cost effectively while ensuring that we deliver on our responsibility to maintain the reliability of the distribution grid.   Dan Seguin  08:00 Okay, Teresa, I understand that the Electricity Distributors Association relies on input and guidance from dedicated subject matter experts who serve on the diverse councils and committees. Could you impact or provide examples of how these groups guide the development of your policies and how that impacts utilities and electricity customers?   Teresa Sarkesian  08:24 Thanks for that question, Dan. We have over if you can believe this 150 volunteers from the LDC members that serve on one or more of our eight standing councils and committees. They are an extraordinarily committed group of subject matter experts from all corners of the province, representing utilities and communities of all sizes. These EDA councils and committees come together in response to government agency and regulatory consultations and some are very, very technical. The EDA is the platform that brings the industry together and we build consensus based industry positions to present to government agencies and regulators in the province. Over the past couple of years, we have prepared 50 policy submissions annually, and we are on track to do the same in 2021. Examples are far reaching from building changes to enable a customer choice model to supporting the implementation of broadband expansion to shaping ISO market renewal design. Our elected board also provides additional policy guidance on longer term issues. Our power to connect vision papers which set out a 15 year vision to explore new business models for LDCs in enabling distributed energy resources, were some recent strategic thought leadership from our board. And we are exploring more policy work in the area of net zero impacts on the distribution sector. So stay tuned for further insights on that issue. Our volunteers are highly engaged, and I would like to thank them for their time and expertise to the industry.   Rebecca Schwartz  09:55 Can you provide us with examples where collectively with utilities you proposed and advanced policy solutions at Queen's Park, which ones are you most proud of?   Teresa Sarkesian  10:05 Well, we have so many examples, Rebecca. So it was hard for me to choose. But I'm going to pick a couple from the last couple of years because I think during the pandemic, I'm particularly proud of our advocacy when things are so chaotic, down with decision makers at Queen's Park. So one way we demonstrated our customer first mandate was related to the COVID Energy Assistance Program. At the beginning of COVID. Last year, the EDA raised concerns with government that customers were struggling with electricity costs. Because of the lockdown associated with the pandemic. The EDA in its members developed and tabled ideas to provide financial support to residential and small business customers, and to provide partial relief from the global adjustment for larger customers. From there, we work closely with the Ministry of Energy to develop and implement the guidelines for the COVID-19 energy assistance program called CEAP and later the CEAP Small Business Initiative, with government providing 17 million in funding through the first phase of the pandemic. After a subsequent advocacy push from EDA and 2021. An additional 23 million was approved for the CEAP programs. CEAP has assisted more than 62,000 Ontario households and more than 13,000 small businesses. And the CEAP program is a great example of how utilities put customers first. And we're particularly proud of that because it was such a trying time, and it feels good to know that customers were supported by the utilities. The second example is our long standing advocacy efforts on the Ontario Energy boards modernization. We were very pleased this past year to see many of the EDA's modernization recommendations incorporated into the Minister of Energy's mandate letter to the OB chair. This issue has been and continues to be a multi year priority for our sector, we are confident that there will be constructive change ahead to reduce regulatory burden for LDCs. So utilities can focus more on meeting customer needs as the energy sector transforms.   Dan Seguin  12:01 Okay. Now, in your vision paper the power to connect advancing customer driven electricity solutions for Ontario, what are you proposing as a new way forward for Ontario's electricity system?   Teresa Sarkesian  12:16 As you know the electricity sector is transforming rapidly, we are moving towards a two way electricity flow.  With more customers generating and storing energy behind the meter, LDCs have a unique opportunity to be at the forefront of grid transformation by deploying these enabling technologies and developing a service platform that provides new innovative offerings to customers and DER providers. We recognize consumers as drivers of change and local distribution utilities are really at the center of that change with them. We can leverage new technologies to deliver high quality electricity services, and help customers connecting to the grid. We envision local utilities owning operating and integrating small scale clean energy and storage systems, also known as distributed energy resources right into the local grid to better meet consumer needs while augmenting the bulk power grid. We think LDCs should have a greater role as we move forward in areas such as digitalization of utilities in the grid planning locally, regionally and for the bulk system, and to provide alternatives where possible, that are lower cost than traditional capital investments.   Rebecca Schwartz  13:27 Okay, great. So now how can utilities best serve the interests of its customers in today's evolving industry?   Teresa Sarkesian  13:34 Well, I think Rebecca, we can best serve the interests of our customers by doing what LDCs do best. That's by continuing to build connections and trust with Ontarians through our customer centric approach to service by staying close and by providing knowledge and guidance to our customers on what matters to them most. Whether that's managing bills, conservation programs, ensuring reliability, supporting EV charging connections, whatever it may be. LDCs are trusted by customers and expected to have the answers and solutions to help them engage in a customized way with the evolving energy grid.   Rebecca Schwartz  14:08 Alright, so our utilities aligned with Ontario's long term energy plan as it relates to cost effective electricity and greenhouse gas emission reduction targets?   Teresa Sarkesian  14:18 Well, that's a great question because Ontario has a relatively clean grid compared to many other jurisdictions. While there is still room to improve, we need to focus efforts on reducing greenhouse gas emissions, where we will achieve the greatest reduction. therefore reducing emissions in the transportation sector and in the building sector are expected to play a bigger role in meeting broader climate change targets given that emissions from those two sectors comprise approximately 60% of all greenhouse gas emissions in Ontario. And utilities are very keen to support the fuel switching from gas to electric vehicles as a critical part of reducing greenhouse gases in Ontario. It poses an interesting challenge that as we decarbonize our economy to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, electricity use is expected to actually grow, we need to ensure that low or no emitting resources are pursued, such as renewables, energy storage and energy efficiency, along with other emerging technologies, such as hydrogen and small modular reactors. Presently, Ontario does not have a comprehensive public policy framework on these matters. We are looking forward to new direction coming out of the province on a multitude of initiatives including a new long term energy plan, and electrification strategy potentially from the Ministry of Transportation, and a new environmental plan from the Ministry of the Environment. I do want to speak to the electricity system because we would like to see a renewed emphasis on conservation and energy efficiency, with LDCs being at the forefront of these initiatives. For every kilowatt hour saved, one less kilowatt hour needs to be generated. Ontario has an unusual arrangement where conservation is centrally run, and not led by the local distribution companies, which is the more common practice in other jurisdictions across North America. LDCs are keen to provide conservation programs as part of a broader, more comprehensive package of solutions to help customers manage energy use and costs. LDCs were very successful in delivering conservation in Ontario the past few years LDCs deliver conservation at a cost of 1.5 cents a kilowatt hour, which was unparalleled in North America. It would be great to bring back that cost efficient and effective approach to the province and put LDCs back in the driver's seat on designing and delivering conservation for customers.   Dan Seguin  16:48 Same line of questioning here Teresa, can you share with our listeners the views of your association on the long term strategy for EVs and electrification in Ontario?   Teresa Sarkesian  17:02 So LDCs are at the forefront and have the expertise and relationships that will be crucial to expanding electrification. LDCs need to be central to supporting an electrification strategy in Ontario given the challenges utilities will face with increased load and capacity issues. And there is an opportunity to also harness the storage capacity of electric vehicle batteries to assist with grid reliability, particularly in emergency situations. But for LDCs to fully seize this opportunity ahead and effectively manage the challenges associated with large scale electrification, regulatory frameworks need to be better aligned with these fast emerging trends. Incorporating electrify transportation infrastructure should be viewed with the same regulatory lens as investing in poles, wires and transformers. There is a broader societal benefit. And while many LDCs are eager to build EV infrastructure, they face barriers today and getting in included in their rate base. That in turn is a crucial factor in enabling them to justify it amortize a significant upfront investment required to ensure system reliability with growing EV charging. And the same challenge applies to investments needed to support transit and fleet electrification as well. The current rate classes are not well suited to fast charging requirements and this is a disincentive to strategic infrastructure investment in the context of transit and fleet charging in particular, overnight or other rate classes designed to accommodate and equitably price fleet EV charging has already been implemented elsewhere and are needed in Ontario.   Dan Seguin  18:38 Thanks. Now, what is your organization's role in the electrification of transportation?   Teresa Sarkesian  18:45 So it's an exciting time for the sector to be part of this and electrification will play a significant part in Ontario's netzero future and LDCs need to play a key role in enabling the full potential of EVs in Ontario. So what is the EDA doing? so the EDA continues to participate in multi stakeholder discussions with a range of parties and government officials. Currently, we are participating on the transportation electrification Council, which is a working groups set up by the Ministry of Transportation. And that's going to go on for the next few more months, but recurring themes today include the need for rate basing of charging infrastructure to help stimulate expansion of public charging networks and for the longer term benefit of ratepayers and also discussion of challenges relating to household EV charging, such as the potential need for major electrical upgrades. But we have ongoing advocacy related to electrification, not only with the Ministry of Transportation, but across government and with the agencies and the regulator.   Rebecca Schwartz  19:45 Teresa, in one of your policy papers, Roadmap to a brighter Ontario, you identified current barriers to the evolution of local distribution companies for the future. Can you expand on what those are and perhaps what are some solutions?   Teresa Sarkesian  19:59 Absolutely. At least so currently we are as a sector lacking a comprehensive regulatory framework on distributed energy resources. There are some consultation and review processes in play at both the Ontario Energy Board and at the Independent Electricity System Operator, but they are both at the fairly early development stage, there needs to be the ability to have remuneration and more certainty and clarity, going forward to establish the role of LDCs in supporting and optimizing the electricity grid. So I want to talk about a few barriers that we have identified. So one of the challenges we have is that we must improve the distribution system plans through investments in grid visibility, we need to ensure that LDCs are permitted to make investments in grid visibility to benefit fully from the value of DERs. And by improving visibility, it will ensure that the distribution system plans are developed with greater certainty and prudence. Greater visibility also increases the ability of LDCs to coordinate with the ISO to further optimize broader electricity system benefits. Another area of concern we have is we need to remove restrictions on LDC ownership of DER resources. Currently, LDCs are restricted to owning DERs of 10 megawatts or less, there should be more flexibility in owning the large DERs and the LDC sector also needs more clarity on behind the meter ownership of the DERs. There is some light guidance by the OEB right now that will allow the ownership of behind the meter non wires alternatives, as they call them, if it can be demonstrated to be more cost effective than traditional capital investments, but we still need more certainty to ensure that is the case going forward. Another area of concern for our sector is we need to allow LDCs to control and operate DER assets for two primary purposes. And these are often DER assets that are owned by customers behind the meter. But we need to have ability to control and operate these for two main reasons. One is to allow for coordination and aggregation of DERs to respond to ISO led procurements pertaining to province wide system reliability. And also to coordinate and aggregate DERs to address local reliability within the distribution network. So these are just a few of I think we have about 15 solutions, but I thought I would just target three for the audience today.   Dan Seguin  22:27 This next one is very interesting - for me. How will distributed energy resources change the relationship between utilities and customers.   Teresa Sarkesian  22:38 While many utilities are interested in optimizing DERs that reside behind the meter and may be underutilized by customer owners and operators. Currently, there is over 4000 megawatts of DERs behind the meters of utilities across Ontario. Better digitalization of utility will provide visibility of where all those resources sit on the distribution grid. With that knowledge and the ability of LDCs to be permitted to offer price signals, owners and operators of these DERs could choose to sell back some of the generation or storage to assist the utility in supporting grid reliability. And in order to dispatch the DERs utilities will need to invest in advanced control systems to achieve this level of grid sophistication. This integration of customer assets on the distribution grid will potentially create more efficiencies in the system by delaying or avoiding other generation or transmission investments. It will be a much more dynamic relationship with customers than in the past.   Rebecca Schwartz  23:37 Wow, I can't believe that 2022 is already upon us. So what are the top two issues that could impact utilities, their shareholders and the more than 5 million customers across the province?   Teresa Sarkesian  23:51 Well, that's a great question, Rebecca. So one of the issues that we see that could be important for our sector and customers will be the post pandemic economic recovery and the upcoming provincial election in Ontario. So with regard to the post pandemic economic recovery, there has been a lot of discussion about the opportunities related to electrification. So depending on how fast government would like to move, or to incent electrification in Ontario, this could be really quite challenging for LDCs to be at the ready, because as I mentioned before, we need to make sure that we have the proper capital investments, remuneration and visibility tools to make sure that we can effectively electrify Ontario's economy. And with regard to the Ontario election, depending on the election results, there is always a possibility that there may be a change in focus for the energy sector. So if there might be a shift in government, perhaps they might want to go harder or faster on net zero or electrification targets. So we'll have to wait and see what happens. I guess the election is only about seven months away now.   Dan Seguin  24:58 Okay, Teresa Now for the fun part. How about we close off with some rapid fire questions? Okay, first one, what is your favorite word?   Teresa Sarkesian  25:11 Compassion   Dan Seguin  25:13 What is the one thing you can't live without   Teresa Sarkesian  25:17 my sense of humor   Dan Seguin  25:18 What is something that challenges you?   Teresa Sarkesian  25:21 Working in the ever changing electricity sector is both challenging and rewarding.   Dan Seguin  25:27 Now, if you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Teresa Sarkesian  25:32 Not needing to sleep.   Dan Seguin  25:35 Okay, if you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self, what would you tell her?   Teresa Sarkesian  25:43 Well, that would be going back a very long time ago at this stage, Dan. But what I would say to her is be brave and take a year to travel, because you won't have the time to do it again for a very, very long time for a whole year, perhaps not until retirement.   Dan Seguin  25:58 And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector?   Teresa Sarkesian  26:05 I think it's the energy transformation journey we are all on right now. We are part of a global transformation on electrifying society. It's not just happening in Ontario. It is happening all across the world. It is so exciting to be part of global change. And I can't say I've really ever had that before in my career.   Rebecca Schwartz  26:24 Alright, Theresa, we reached the end of another episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. Thanks so much for joining us today. We hope you had fun.   Teresa Sarkesian  26:32 I did. Thank you so much. It was great to chat with you today.   Rebecca Schwartz  26:36 I sure hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. If so please head over to our iTunes SUBSCRIBE And leave us a review.   Dan Seguin  26:44 Now For show notes and bonus content visit thinkenergypodcast.ca. Also, be sure to tell your friends and colleagues about us. Thank you for listening

Unfortunately, electrical injuries are not as rare as one would hope. But the rate of electrical fatalities is actually trending down thanks to the efforts of the Electrical Safety Authority. Today’s big question: How has the Electrical Safety Authority strategically evolved its approach to safety in this modern, and increasingly electric world? Special guest, Josie Erzetic, Chief Regulatory Officer & General Counsel for the Electrical Safety Authority, is here with us today to help ground us with a greater understanding of the dangers behind electricity and how we can protect ourselves, our loved ones, and our colleagues from injury. --- Do you work in a construction related industry? Call or email (ESA.communications@esasafe.com) the ESA to learn about their spring startup sessions. They are happy to send somebody out to educate your workers about the potential hazards around powerline contact.  Related Content & Links:  Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josie-erzetic-0bb58010/ Grounded in Ontario Podcast: www.ESAsafe.com/podcast --- Transcript:  Dan Seguin  00:50 Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast. And in today's episode, we'll be talking about safety in this increasingly, electric world. I'm dancing.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:02 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz.   Dan Seguin  01:04 Electricity is everywhere. It has become a necessary part of our lives powering the way we live, work and play. Rebecca, how much of a headache is it when the power goes out?   Rebecca Schwartz  01:19 Hmm, it's a huge headache, Dan. And let me tell you, as a social media coordinator, I know firsthand that our customers feel the pain.   Dan Seguin  01:28 Yep, I'm the same way when the power goes out, we notice but apart from those moments, it's easy to take for granted. Likewise, with it being such a critical resource that already has many safeguards in place, it's easy to forget just how dangerous it is   Rebecca Schwartz  01:45 so true. And well, most of us have likely experienced an electric shock of some kind. Hopefully, for most people, just a small Static Shock, you know, from walking across your carpet with socks on and touching the closest victim in proximity to you. But I digress. static shocks like these are of little consequence. However, when it comes to the electric current running through our homes, businesses and communities via wires and powerlines incidents involving electric shock are anything but amusing.   Dan Seguin  02:15 Unfortunately, the sobering reality is that electrical injuries are not as rare as you and I or the Electrical Safety Authority would like. According to the Ontario electrical safety report, there have been a 135 electrical related fatalities in the past 10 years. 52 of those deaths were a result of electrocution, or the effects of an electrical burn, and 83 were a result of electrical fires. The silver lining is that the rate of electrical fatalities is actually trending down. fatalities have dropped 13% Compared to the previous 10 year period.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:59 And the organization behind this downwards trend is the Electrical Safety Authority. They serve to regulate and promote electrical safety in Ontario, improve safety for the well being of all Ontarians and ultimately to reduce electrical injuries and fatalities to zero.   Dan Seguin  03:16 So Rebecca, here's today's big question. How has the electrical safety authorities strategically evolved, its approach to safety in this modern and increasingly electric world? Special guest, Josie Erzetic, Chief regulatory officer and General Counsel for the Electrical Safety Authority is here with us today to help ground us with a greater understanding of the dangers behind electricity, and how we can protect ourselves, our loved ones, and our colleagues from injury. Hey Josie, Welcome to the show. Perhaps you can start us off by telling us more about your organization, your role as a regulator, and what fuels your passion for working there?   Josie Erzetic  04:12 Thanks so much, Daniel. I'm really happy to be on the show. So Thanks for inviting me. I guess what I'd start off with is just talking about ESA's mission, and that is to promote electrical safety across Ontario. So in fact, our vision is an Ontario where people can live work and play safe from electrical harm. So we're talking about electrical safety at home, as well as in the workplace. So how do you do that? We basically have carriage four regulations in the province. So the first one being the one people probably associate most which with us, which is the Ontario Electrical Safety Code. The second one is that we license all of the LEC's and ME's, that's master electricians and licensed electrical contractors in the province. Thirdly, we regulate electrical product safety. And finally, we regulate the safety of all licensed distribution companies in the province. And that would be, for example, Ottawa Hydro. So we regulate safety in that regard as well. And we're constantly just scanning the market for new areas that we perceive present an electrical safety risk to consumers to Ontarians. And we promote education, electrical safety education. So what what fuels my passion you asked? It's basically that safety and consumer protection mandate, I find it very, very meaningful work to do this. So that's what gets me up in the mornings. And I'm really fortunate to just work with a really, really great group of people.   Rebecca Schwartz  06:01 with safety and risk mitigation top of mind how the accidents increased or decreased in the last five to 10 years. And how do you measure this?   Josie Erzetic  06:10 it's a really good question. And I'm very happy to report that over the last 10 years, overall, the state of electrical safety in Ontario has improved. There's been a 42% reduction in critical injuries that result as a result of electrical incidents, and there's been a 30% reduction in electrical fires. Overall, as well over the past decade, there's been an 11% decrease in electrical related fatalities. When it comes to power lines, specifically, there has been an 8% decrease in the last 10 years in power line related fatalities. So how do we know this? we track all the data. So we look very carefully at electrical fatalities, as well as critical injuries. And we really sort of hone in on where they're coming from. So I'll give you an example. For example, dump truck drivers a number of years ago, we recognized that there were a lot of electrical contact with power lines as the result of dump truck drivers keeping the box on their truck in an elevated position. So as a result of that we really focused in on that problem and started to do a lot of work with that industry. So what did we do? we created a whole campaign around, look up, look out. So we posted these types of signs all around construction areas, we posted power line safety posters. We delivered safety talks to industry associations to students to construction workers. And we worked in partnership with the IHSA, which is the infrastructure Health and Safety Association. And we also translated some of our safety materials into other languages, including French, Portuguese, Punjabi, to make sure that people understood the message. And as a result of it, what's happened is that the number of powerline contacts from that industry has decreased by 28%, when you compare five year periods. So having said all that, there's still a lot of work to be done. And we're again tracking data to look at where we might see other risk areas so that we can really focus in on those.   Dan Seguin  08:53 Now let's move on from data to reports. I know you recently released an annual safety report. What is that telling you?   Josie Erzetic  09:01 So our annual safety report is called the Ontario electrical safety report or OESR. It's the only document of this kind in Canada. And what it really does is help us identify emerging risk areas. So this this last month, we released our 20th edition. And what it's telling us on the homeowner side certainly is we've seen an increase in power line contacts reported from the public. So this is not what I was referring to earlier in terms of fatalities per se, but it's just an increase in the numbers of contacts, which of course could lead to serious injury or fatality, so we want to really think about data like this and try to send our safety message to the public. So where are we seeing contact? we're seeing it in areas like tree trimming or cutting. We're seeing it in things like kite flying or home improvement. work. For example, if you think about it, you're working around your home, you're moving around a ladder, let's say, to clean your eavestroughs, anything like that. And we're potentially seeing power line contact as a result, yard renovations. So we noticed that, especially during this pandemic period, where people are doing a lot of their own renovation work, there's a potential there for power line contact. So what we've done is we're shifting a lot of our campaigns online, and we're sending out messages like stop, look and live, we find that people are going online, when they're thinking about doing renovations when they're hiring contractors to help with some of those renovations. So we want to send out those messages that make sure you're aware of powerlines, you're aware of what you're doing, and that you stay far enough away. Another example is pools and pool clearances or hot tubs. So in that sense, we've sent out messages saying make sure you keep yourself and your equipment, for example, pool skimmers, which can be quite long, far away from overhead power lines, and our recommendation is at least three meters away. So that's on the homeowner side. And if we want to switch it now to the work side, on the occupational side, I point to the fall of 2019. Were in the span of about 24 hours, we were notified tragically of two critical injuries and two deaths as a result of powerline contact. And those were four separate incidents. So one was a crane construction worker. The second one was arborists that were it was a team of two arborists that were involved in tree trimming. The third one involved a TTC worker. So that's the Toronto Transit Commission in Toronto. And, and the fourth one was a drill operator. So this was a really tragic day where you had a number of incidents just occurring in very close temporal proximity. But it was also a catalyst for us to think about redesigning our power line campaign. And so what we're doing as a result is we have campaigns twice annually so that we make sure it's at the start of construction season, as well as in the fall months. We're also working closely with the Ministry of Labor to understand all of the circumstances behind those incidents. And we also work with our industry partners to make sure that we educate workers who are at high risk, and I mentioned arborist as an example. So we want to again focus in on those occupations that we think are at high risk of powerline contact. We've also observed a rise in incidents involving young workers. And as a result, we have specialists who go to the colleges to ensure that students young workers involved in things like heavy machinery operation in the arborist industry, get the information about the potential hazard around power line contact, so to ensure that they're well educated on that. And we also encourage any companies. So anyone who is listening to this podcast, who you know works in a construction related area, if you want to give us a call about our spring startup sessions, we're happy to send somebody out to educate your workers about the potential hazards around powerline contact. And you can do this by just emailing us at ESA.communications@esasafe.com. And we'd be happy to do a spring startup session for folks.   Rebecca Schwartz  14:11 Thanks, Josie. We'll make sure to include that in our show notes. So we read that the Electrical Safety Authority is striving to be a modern risk based electrical safety regulator for Ontarians. What exactly does that mean?   Josie Erzetic  14:25 Yeah, it's a great question. And I often think about that, myself, what does it mean to be to be a modern regulator, so it can mean a lot of things to a lot of people, but I'll sort of give you the key elements of it for us. So it really, it means to us to use something that we call risk based oversight. It means leveraging technology and really fostering the capabilities of our people. So when we say risk based oversight, as you can imagine, trying to be a safety regulator. The complex world we live in today in a in a province, as populous as the province of Ontario is a difficult task, you can't be everywhere all at once. So we use risk base to really prioritize and focus on the highest risk electrical installations, we actually have an algorithm that helps us understand which installations are the high risk ones, and we prioritize those and have a whole system for prioritization. So we're basically putting the most time in the highest risk areas. Along those lines were also through. And we did this through the COVID period, we're really piloting the use of what we call remote inspections. So that in other words, rather than an inspector attending at each installation, there's the possibility for a licensed electrical contractor to send in photos or videos. And we put job aids around that and given instruction to the industry about what we're looking for. So again, so low risk installation, and in the inspectors discretion, they can accept photos or videos, which you can imagine, makes it more efficient for us doing our job. And it's also, you know, potentially an efficiency value to the contractor as well to submit photos rather than having somebody attend in person. So that's another thing where we're moving forward as a modern regulator, I'd say, in terms of leveraging technology, we've really moved digital, I think, as have a lot of companies at this time. So example, where we used to have all our master exams happening in person, they can now happen virtually. So we have a system where we can do virtual proctoring of exams, so you can do your exam online, we can do online training, which is either synchronous or asynchronous, which is which is terrific for folks. If it's synchronous, then you might have an instructor with you asynchronous, you're watching videos, or you're going through PowerPoint on on your own time. So it's, it's leveraging technology for us, but also for the folks that we service. And another big thing we've done is our plan review group, which looks at electrical drawings, for complex electrical installations. So say, for example, for a car manufacturer or a large industry, rather than having these clients submit hard copies of complicated electrical plans, they can now do so digitally through our electronic plan review portal. So that's something again, that's very good for clients and good for efficiency purposes. For us, we also have a new scheduling tool that provides customers better notice of when an inspector is going to arrive, which is again, a real win from a from an efficiency standpoint, and we're now launching a project that would allow master electricians and licensed electrical contractors to submit documents online, so time saving there. And the last area I'd say is focusing on fostering new skills. So where our employees need to augment skills or develop new skills, we're very supportive of continuing education and, and skills broadening. And we're also looking at where do we have gaps? Where is technology? Or is our sector evolving, and we need to ensure we're evolving with it. So an example I give you there is what we've just been talking about, which is around data analytics. So we've recognized that we need to improve our capability in that regard. And as a result, we've hired a couple of new people to help us in that regard. And we're also augmenting skills of folks that we already have working for us. I think I'd be remiss if I didn't mention diversity and inclusion. I think a lot of employers are thinking about that right now, as are we. And so we do have what we call an idea strategy, which is inclusion, diversity, equity and accessibility. And I think that is a very important part of being a modern regulator. And I would say that, you know, I'm really happy to report that 80% of our executive team is now women. So I think we're making some real advances in that area, but you know, I'll be honest with you, I'd like to see more so We're continuing to work on that. So I guess that's in summary, what I really see is being a modern regulator.   Dan Seguin  20:08 That's very interesting. Thanks, Josie. Now, wondering if you could tell us about your organization's new corporate strategy at a high level? Can you walk us through the four strategic goals and why they're so important?   Josie Erzetic  20:23 Yeah. So it's, it's a very good question. And some of these goals we have maintained from previous years and others we've really expanded upon. So I would say the, the first of the four main goals is really safety. And that's one that's always been a focus of our organization. But having said that, we can all see the rapid evolution of technology in the sector. So we're really maintaining a close focus on that, and working with industry partners in that regard. So examples I give you there are things like the adoption of electric vehicles or energy storage technologies. So in the example I give you is that I'm currently sitting on a council that the Ministry of Transportation has set up around Evie adoption. So we want to participate on councils like that, that look at this one is on the electrification of the transportation sector. So that's an important part important pillar in the strategy, and an important part of what we're doing. So we do things like we anticipate new risk areas, we have something called the harm lifecycle, which really has a scanning the market, looking at potential for new technology, new harms that we should be monitoring and assessing. And then we decide, is this a high risk area that we would like to pilot a program in as an example? Is this something we should be partnering on? Like the example I just gave you with what MTO is doing? Is this something that we want to continue as a program, once we have achieved our goals in it? Is it something that we exit from so we have a whole lifecycle and how we look at risk. So I think that's an important part of the new strategy around safety. And then compliance, that's also something that we have carried over from our previous strategy. But I think, if anything, I would say we're almost amping up what we're doing in this area. So we work closely with our licensed communities, for example, the licensed electrical contractor community, and we educate the public in terms of ensuring that they hire a licensed electrical contractor, rather than, for example, going to unlicensed individuals. And we refer to that as the underground economy. So I would say that this new strategy really emphasizes the importance of getting at that underground economy or, you know, I'd like to put it as like, just let's take a bite out of that underground economy, let's reduce what's going on there. So we want to educate homeowners to not hire unlicensed individuals. And we will take enforcement action, where it's required against those people who are working illegally and not taking out licenses or permits because there are real safety and consumer protection risks around that type of work. And we've got some real active campaigns around that. For example, we have a Kijiji Blitz, where we are actively looking for people advertising services illegally on Kijiji and forcing those to come off Kijiji. Our third goal is operating with organizational agility. And I think, as a lot of companies are doing today, and as we talked about earlier, we're trying to leverage technology to make ourselves more efficient, and reduce, you know, burden for the licensees. So whether those are licensed electrical contractors, or LDCs, such as Hydro Ottawa, we're trying to reduce burden for our clients. And I think the last area is really around public accountability. We want to be seen as a publicly accountable transparent regulator So we do regular surveys of our customers to identify areas for improvement. You know, what are our strengths? But what are our weaknesses? And how can we do better? I think ESA has a culture of continuous improvement, which we're very proud of.   Rebecca Schwartz  25:18 Thanks for the reference to the underground economy, it seems like there's a black market for everything, even electrical services. Has there been a story that's stuck with you in regards to an electrical incident resulting in a serious injury that could have been prevented? Or is there a safety tip that you wish everybody knew?   Josie Erzetic  25:37 Yeah. So thank you for that question. And something that is real top of mind for me lately, is something called lichtenburg generators. So we've had a number of serious injuries and some deaths involving these devices. And my safety tip is stop using these devices. They are devices that they can either be made. So people were seeing people doing them as do it yourself projects, or they can be purchased. However, they're not a product that's either approved or certified by any certification body, and they're extremely dangerous. So we're aware of at least five fatalities and one critical injury that have taken place over the last three years. And a couple of those fatalities occurred earlier this year. And what these things are, I don't know if you've ever heard of them before, but they are used to create art. So they're like a wood burning type device. So you create it by burning designs into wood or acrylic. But they're a lot of them are homemade. And people take parts out of microwaves, for example, to put these things together. And they have a lot of accessible wiring components. So they're very unsafe to handle. And so and particularly on social media forums, we're seeing that individuals are posting videos, and they're instructing each other on how to build these devices. So right now we have a very comprehensive public safety awareness campaign to educate the public about the dangers of using Lichtenberg generators. And we're specifically targeting that sort of do it yourself, community and those who are interested in things like woodworking so what we're finding it's primarily men aged between 20 and 40, to not carry out this type of hobby and not use these types of devices. And if anyone is aware of advertising of this kind of advice, we would encourage them to call us at 1-877-esa-safe or visit us online. And and make us aware of this because we are asking, particularly YouTube to try to get these How To Videos removed. So the safety tip again, is don't use these devices. They're very dangerous.   Dan Seguin  28:20 Now your organization has a vision, a big vision to create an Ontario where people can live, work and play safe from electrical harm. During the pandemic, have there been any particular challenges or opportunities in achieving this?   Josie Erzetic  28:37 Yeah, it absolutely, because as I'm sure you both have found, people were at home. That means, among other things, a lot of on at home online shopping. So we want to make sure that people are very aware that electrical products that you're looking at, make sure they've been approved by a recognized certification body. So from both a safety awareness point of view, but also a consumer protection point of view, we want to make sure that people are buying approved products, as you both know. Online, it's so it's a global problem. You can buy products from anywhere in the world now and have them shipped directly to your house. So again, as a regulator, it's hard to be everywhere all at once. So the best thing is to have consumers aware themselves that when you're buying electrical products, you will want to ensure that it's either CSA certified UL certified, that you've got an approval mark on that product and you look for it when you're buying it on these online platforms. We share jurisdiction here with Health Canada, so I know Health Canada is all so concerned about this problem. So what we've done is we've set up a task force and we include ourselves on it, Health Canada, our own ministry, provincially, which is the ministry of government and Consumer Services. We've got manufacturers working with us distributors, consumer advocates, we've got bricks and mortar stores as part of the task force. But we also have online retailers. And we're all discussing the problem of consumer awareness, consumer protection and safety, because it's an all our interest to make sure people are safe. And we're putting resources into follow up on any reports we see, or we receive about unsafe consumer products. So we have been and we will follow up on 100% of reports we receive where somebody says, Look, I bought this thing it's unapproved, you know, I found that it sparked or there was a flash, when I tried to plug it in, we will follow up on all these things. We're also really enhancing consumer consumer awareness efforts, especially around this time of year, we're heading into holiday shopping season. And so we do have a holiday safety campaign. That's where we see a lot of people online, a lot of people looking at electrical products. So this campaign really focuses on consumer safety. And this year, in particular, we're encouraging folks who, you know, may be doing a lot of holiday decorating, they may be getting together to do this type of thing. So they're putting more emphasis on it this year, I don't know maybe more so than last year, when nobody came over. We're saying, you know, look closely at your your lights, right, your holiday lights that you're buying, make sure they're approved, make sure you use them correctly. Make sure if you have old ones that you're digging out of your basement, that there's no damage to cords, so just you know, be careful.   Rebecca Schwartz  32:04 Josie, you mentioned amateur DIY is like the dangerous Lichtenberg wood burning video on YouTube. Has there been other instances where the Electrical Safety Authority has seen an increase in electrical accidents? Or what about new areas of concern?   Josie Erzetic  32:20 Yeah, it's, it's a really, it's a good question. And again, particularly through this pandemic period, where people are looking for new hobbies, or, you know, they're at home, they're thinking about ways to renovate their house, maybe they cannot find a contractor or someone says to them, okay, it'll be months and months before somebody can get your house. So they just, they feel like, Oh, well, I could I want to do it myself. Right. So in that sense, we really remind homeowners consumers, that electricity is something that is dangerous, that you need to hire a professional to do it, there is the potential homeowners can do their own work. But in our view, it is better to hire a professional because there are safety risks inherent in the work. If homeowners are doing it themselves, then we certainly would remind them that they must take out the proper notifications with ESA, because that then has an inspector coming to their house to inspect the work. So at the very least, you want to ensure that happens. But we would say primarily, look, leave it to the professionals. So hire a licensed electrical contractor. And only a licensed electrical contracting business can be hired to do this. So when you're hiring people, we also remind folks to ask to see the accurate slash ESA license number. So that should be ever it should be on the estimates you get. It should be on their their trucks, their business cards, their ultimate invoice if you're not seeing that you could be hiring somebody that's in that underground economy that we talked about earlier. So be very careful about who you're hiring. And in this regard, obviously, ESA puts out a lot of its own information. But we also now are partnering with the Mike Holmes group. And you'll probably remember Mike Holmes He's done a lot of work on television. He does a lot of work also through social media. So he has a very large following. And so as a result, we're able to amplify the message by working with that group with Mike Holmes and his family to really get out that message that this is something maybe you don't want to take on on your own because of the safety risks. So certainly, both Mike his son, Mike Jr, and Sherry have posted both on YouTube as well as their other social channels about the importance when you're thinking about renovating to hire a licensed electrical contractor, and also the importance of ensuring you ensuring that you have ESA inspect the work. So you want to make sure at the end of the job, you get an ESA certificate of acceptance when the job's complete. So you know, it's done right. The other thing we've been noticing recently, and we've really made an effort to get the word out on this, so maybe I'll mention it here on this podcast as well, is the difference between a licensed electrical contractor, a master electrician, or what we call a C of Q, Certificate of Qualification holder, a certified electrician. Sometimes people think, oh, this person is an electrician, I'll just hire them directly know, who you need to hire is a licensed electrical contractor, because they are a business. And they were required by us to have $2 million in liability insurance, as well as the WSIB insurance coverage. So how this works is the licensed electrical contractor employs Master electricians who are responsible for overseeing the work of certified electricians, so you don't hire those folks directly. You hire the LEC, and it's important for consumer protection, because that way, if there's an injury, God forbid, or something happens in your home, then there is insurance that covers that. And the homeowner, him or herself is not responsible. So we're really working to increase awareness on the differences between the licensed electrical contracting businesses, which are who you hire, versus the master electricians or the certified electricians. I think that's very important.   Rebecca Schwartz  37:17 Great tips Josie and gotta love Mike Holmes, perhaps now a little bit more broadly, pandemic times or not what are some of the biggest challenges and opportunities that are facing the Electrical Safety Authority right now in general?   Josie Erzetic  37:32 I think I I go back to the underground economy and underground work that we we talked about earlier. So and I think we mentioned that it's just it's such a big problem, not just for our sector. But overall, I think, Rebecca, that you mentioned that you can, you know, almost buy anything in the underground market now. So you really, I think Statistics Canada estimates the underground economy is over $16 billion. That's with a B in Ontario alone. So it's just it's a big problem. And we as I said, I'd like to start a new slogan, like, let's take a bite out of the underground economy, like we really need to ensure with something like electricity, there are such safety and consumer protection issues, that this is not something you want to fool around with and leave to someone who's non licensed and not take out proper permits in this area. There's just too much at risk both with your personal safety and the safety of your home. There could be a fire that results from this. So what are we doing to really tackle this i and Daniel, I think you mentioned it earlier too. It's the Kijiji work so we're actually working a lot of people go online to find contractors. We are online and looking at those ads on Kijiji, and we will send notification to advertisers who we think are unlicensed businesses offering these types of services. If we don't get a voluntary response to take down that ad, Kijiji will forcibly remove it so big shout out to Kijiji for working with us and taking those ads down. And and if we still get repeat offenders, you wouldn't believe this people will come back and advertise again. We're prosecuting them. So we now have 20 charges pending before courts. So I would say that number one consumers do not hire unlicensed people. Be careful about who you're hiring online. We're out there we're working on it, but be careful as to see those licenses people who are doing this work illegally. I would say we are working hard to pull your ads off. Do not do this come into the licensed community. If you want to do this work, then get a license and do it properly. or we will also be looking to prosecute. So we this is important. The other thing we noticed with a high level of EV adoption, we undertook an EV charger Blitz. So we noticed that some EV charging systems that you put in your home in order to charge your vehicle were being done by unlicensed individuals and being done without permits. So we had our inspectors go out and inspect and alert both homeowners because sometimes homeowners don't know that was put in improperly and alert us to where we saw, charters being put in without permits are being put in by unlicensed contractors. And as a result, we've noticed this the period that we were looking at it this year, compared to last year, we've had almost a doubling of the amount of notifications that were taken out. So it makes a big difference when people know that we're out there. We're inspecting these things, and we expect them to be done properly and safety. And we also have an anonymous online reporting tool. So I would even say to your listeners, if you think there could be unlicensed activity going on somewhere, please let us know about it. So you can go online, you will, it's anonymous, but we do appreciate details. So we can do the follow up and investigate, you go to esasafe.com. And we found that this has been a very effective tool since we launched it in April 2020. To get reports, and I will tell people that we do follow up on 100% of the leads we get about unlicensed activity.   Dan Seguin  41:47 Okay, we've covered challenges and opportunities. What about the rise of digital communication? Has it changed your organization's ability to communicate safety messaging?   Josie Erzetic  41:59 Yeah, I'd say it, it really, really has. And we've shifted a lot of our educational campaigns on to social media, because as we alluded to earlier, we do find that is where people are looking, for example, to hire contractors, they're looking for ideas, say on renovation, you know, people will follow certain interior designers, they they will follow renovators on things like Instagram, or they'll follow them on Twitter. So we're leveraging platforms like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest, Google, Google, YouTube, all of those, because we find that that's where people are going now. But we also find there are potential dangers lurking there as well. And so we really have to monitor and be on top of those. So I'll give you an example of something that was a tic toc challenge that that we were made aware of in early 2020. And this was a challenge where that was issued over tick tock and it was basically about plugging in a phone charger. And then using either was a penny or a nickel or something to drag across the exposed prongs. And it results in in smoke and sparks and but it can also result in fire. So it this is obviously a really dangerous activity. So we became aware of it on social media. And then we use social as well as traditional media in order to educate, you know, basically parents and kids who were doing this, that this was unsafe, and they shouldn't be doing it. And we that was a very successful campaign. And we had more than 15 million views on that. And so we're very, very grateful. And, and we actually we won some awards for what we were able to do with with social media just in terms of identifying a risk and then educating people that they shouldn't be carrying engaging in this activity. And and I guess I should say to that we're also we're leveraging some new new opportunities, like a podcast like what you guys are doing here, which I applaud you for, by the way, we're trying to do the same thing.   Rebecca Schwartz  44:21 Now Josie, our listeners have made it this far. And now they want to know some ways that they can keep their electrical safety knowledge up to date. How can they do that?   Josie Erzetic  44:30 Yeah. So one way to do it is exactly what the two of you are doing with your podcast. We have our own podcast and it's really focused on electrical safety. So it's called Grounded in Ontario, and you can find it on our website at ESAsafe.com/podcast, but you can also go to typical platforms where you'd find podcasts like Apple podcasts or Spotify and located there. So we have new episodes coming out basically monthly. And we talk about things like what we've talked about here and more. So we've had an episode on pools and hot tubs and safety issues relating to that those EV supply equipment. So electrical vehicle chargers, which we also alluded to here, we also talk about arc fault and ground fault circuit interrupters. And we have a new episode that's just coming out on the underground economy, which we've also talked about. So that's a great place to get information. Also, our website has a lot of information and talks about things like do it yourself, renovations, talks about holiday safety talks about home and work safety. So I would, you know, recommend listeners go there. And I'd also always encourage people that if there are safety concerns, or you want to report activity, please go to our website, or please call us and I can give you the number, it's 1-877-372-7233. So we'd love to hear from people.   Dan Seguin  46:12 Okay, as it relates to your podcast Grounded in Ontario, I'll make sure that we post a link in our show notes, well Josie How about you close us off with some rapid fire questions? Are you ready?   Josie Erzetic  46:26 I'm ready.   Dan Seguin  46:27 Okay. What is your favorite word?   Josie Erzetic  46:30 I have to say I, I you know, obviously top of mind for me. workwise is safety. But just one of my favorite things to think about is also chocolate.   Dan Seguin  46:40 Now, what is one thing you can't live without?   Josie Erzetic  46:45 Chocolate?   Dan Seguin  46:45 What is something that challenges you   Josie Erzetic  46:48 with Rebecca, my love of chocolate? Because then I have to make sure that I you know, keep exercising or something?   Dan Seguin  46:55 If you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Josie Erzetic  47:00 I think the superpower question is always a really is a really great one. And I always I like picking flying for this one. Because then I figure it makes the commuting easier. And it would just be would it be great to just zip to your cottage fast or you know, zip to Europe or something. Especially these times where you know, travel is so difficult.   Dan Seguin  47:22 Josie This is my favorite one here. If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self. What would you tell her?   Josie Erzetic  47:29 Okay, this one, this one I am going to answer very seriously, I would say something that I say to my my kids now who are 19 and 16. And that is believe in yourself. Believe in yourself believe in what you can do. You know, trust, trust yourself. So that that I think is very important for young people to remember.   Dan Seguin  47:53 And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in this sector?   Josie Erzetic  47:59 Um, so I would say it's it's the pace of change. I just think our sector the energy sector is just fascinating. Right now we've talked about things like electrification of transportation, and the speed of the adoption there. We think of things like energy storage, the growth of renewables, I think of distribute, you know, distributed energy resources. I think it's fascinating. We're all concerned about climate change. So we're thinking about how we can reduce our carbon footprint, what, what role does energy play in that? What What will it look like 2030 4050 years from now where we might have entire communities that are doing things like net metering, we might have, you know, renewable generation, within a smaller community, or just you'll have solar panels on your roof, you'll have an energy storage system in your basement, you'll have an Eevee charging outside. So I think that is fascinating. I think energy is so fundamental to how we live and maybe how we'll deal with fundamental global issues like the climate crisis. And so ESA is part of that. I think it's so exciting, because you need to have all of that working safely. So the role we play is fascinating. So that's what I just find hugely fascinating and challenging about our sector.   Rebecca Schwartz  49:25 Well, Josie, we reached the end of another episode of The think energy podcast. Thanks so much for joining Dan and I today. We hope you had fun.   Josie Erzetic  49:33 I had a great time with you guys. Thanks so much. Really appreciate it.   Rebecca Schwartz  49:38 I sure hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. If so please head over to our iTunes SUBSCRIBE And leave us a review.   Dan Seguin  49:46 Now For show notes and bonus content visit hydroottawa.com/thinkenergy. Also, be sure to tell your friends and colleagues about us. Thank you for listening

New considerations for innovating how electricity is generated, distributed, and stored are being made every day. This includes the development and implementation of distributed energy resources - a promising solution for increasing the integration of clean energy. How will distributed energy resources help us reach our climate change targets, and what changes will be needed in order for the grid to support them? Vice President of the Alectra Green Energy & Technology Centre, Neetika Sathe, is here with us today to give us the scoop. Related Content & Links:  Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neetika-sathe-08ab644/ --- Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:51 Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast and today we'll explore and unpack distributed energy. I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:00 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz. You know, Dan, I've been thinking a lot about climate change.   Dan Seguin  01:04 Oh, boy, here comes another millennial rant.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:07 No, no, no, don't worry, I'm actually feeling grateful. Because when it comes to innovating, how we live and operate in order to stop and reverse climate change. Of course, Canada's goal is pretty ambitious and admirable. Canada's plans to be a netzero nation by 2050. I think it's pretty cool.   Dan Seguin  01:23 Absolutely very cool. And the City of Ottawa has also announced plans to be a zero emission city by 2050.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:31 To be honest, it feels like that's a lifetime away, since it's quite literally as many years away as I've been alive. But it's incredible news and evidence that our governments are committed to a decarbonized future.   Dan Seguin  01:42 and utilities! They're also gearing up at the front lines to align with these goals, especially in the electricity sector. New considerations for innovating how electricity is generated, distributed, and store are being made every day. This includes the development and implementation of distributed energy resources, a promising solution for increasing the integration of clean energy. Unlike the typical electricity journey, where it's supplied to customers from a centralized source, distributed energy resources are a means for customers to store their own generated electricity, which they can then choose to redirect the access back into the grid. Because this concept is quite different from how the grid was originally designed, a great deal of innovation and testing is required to ensure its continued reliability and safety.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:42 The people behind the Alectra green energy and technology center strongly believe in building a clean energy future and embracing new technologies. Now putting this belief into action, they have been leading the way for the development of emerging clean and customer friendly energy solutions, like distributed energy resources across their 1800 square kilometer service territory that serves approximately 1 million homes and businesses within 17 communities like Mississauga, St. Catharines and Hamilton.   Dan Seguin  03:11 So, Rebecca, here's today's big question: How will distributed energy resources help us reach our climate change targets, and what changes will be needed in order for the grid to support them? Vice President of Alectra green energy and technology center, the Neetika Sathe is here with us today to give us the scoop. Hey Neetika, welcome to the think energy podcast. Perhaps you can start us off by telling us a bit more about your role with electric Green Energy Technology Center.   Neetika Sathe  03:50 Hey, first of all, thank you so much for inviting me I can't tell you how excited I am to be here and for the opportunity to share my perspective and and the journey within the GRE&T Center. So for those of you who don't know, electric is the second largest municipally owned utility in all of North America, we serve over a million customers in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area. within Alectra we launched the green energy and technology center in 2019 with a mandate to identify, evaluate and develop and accelerate emerging clean and customer friendly energy solutions. So think of us as the ground floor for innovation within Alectra, where clean energy ideas come to life.   Rebecca Schwartz  04:39 Thanks, Neetika. Now can you tell our listeners a bit about distributed energy resources, such as how they work and also provide a couple examples?   Neetika Sathe  04:48 Sure. So distributed energy resources, which we fondly call DERs are usually referred to smaller, clean generation units that are usually located within the customer's premises, the customer could be residential, or commercial or institutional. But typically those distributed energy resources are on the customer side on the other side of the meter, and interconnected with the grid. So to give you some examples, could be rooftop solar panels, wind generating units, wind turbines, battery storage, could be your lithium ion battery storage, smart heat pumps and even electric vehicles, basically, essentially any device that can be integrated and connected to the local distribution, system or grid that is within the proximity of the customer, and possibly owned, possibly operated by the customer.   Dan Seguin  05:58 Could you tell our listeners what makes distributed energy resources an attractive option? As we strive towards our net zero goals? Are they enough to help us get there.   Neetika Sathe  06:10 So netzero goals are rather lofty and extremely aspirational. So now the whole world is looking around trying to find those low hanging fruits that can get us to our netzero goals. The beauty of DERs is that they are largely clean, dispatchable, scalable, easy to integrate into the grid provided, we work on it upfront, if we catch the DERs. As an aftereffect, it's going to cause a lot of issues for the grid. So we have a generational opportunity to ensure that the ER is integrated properly into the grid. Because these are clean and sustainable, they hold a great promise in helping us reduce GHG emissions. And that would contribute towards net zero goals. So rather than talk at high level, let's take an example, solar panels on the roof to help meet the needs of a home, the same home could have a battery storage unit and electric vehicles. And going further, when when both is distributed energy resources are used to feed the local grid. So when there is a time of high GHG Emission emissions from the grid, we could switch over to these local DERs, we could ask the customers for their support to switch over to these clean local DERs and not need to switch on or power on the natural gas or any other fossil fuel large generation. And as a result, by the use of these DERs, we could eliminate GHG emissions from the energy systems.   Rebecca Schwartz  07:57 So what does having distributed energy resources look like from the customer's perspective? Do they necessitate any lifestyle changes? And what are some of the benefits.   Neetika Sathe  08:08 So traditionally, our customers have had a passive engagement. Typically, as customers, even when we go home, we flip the switch and we don't think about it what all is happening in the background to get those electrons into our home, to give us light or to power the TV or any other appliances. But as we are moving more towards a decentralized grid, as the technology options are coming up, as energy solutions are coming up with the DERs, the customer expectations are also changing. So they're literally being able to put the customer in the driver's seat, no pun intended as they drive electric. So they can now make the choice of when they want to use their own distributed energy resources. And when they want to purchase from the grid. So think of it as the customer becoming from a passive customer to a prosumer. Whereby they can be a producer of energy or a consumer of energy. And the choice is theirs. They make the call. So it's and the DERs of the customers could have they could have smart appliances, electric vehicle storage, solar roof or ground roof solar and and really being able to integrate all of this now does it mean any lifestyle change for the customer? I guess the trick is that all of this needs to be technology enabled. So think of it as a very high tech, yet high touch. In other words, the technology needs to do what the customers want. So the customer needs to continue having the lifestyle that they choose their choice. But the difference now is there is technology set in forget technology that enables them to have more choice than just the traditional electricity grid. So this is in stark contrast of the past, our electricity generation over centuries has been better customer has strictly been a passive receiver of energy,   Dan Seguin  10:25 Alectra's green energy and technology center has a number of pilot projects, such as this is a mouthful, folks, the York Region Non-wires, alternative demonstration project, and the powerhouse hybrid project. Can you tell us about the main intent behind these projects, and what your findings have been so far?   Neetika Sathe  10:49 So at the GRE&T Center, we always want to innovate with intention. And the intention behind the pilots is always look for Win Win Win solution, we're never satisfied with one win, it needs to be the first win has got to be for the customer. It's got to work for the customer, customer friendly, meaningful, purposeful, relevant, otherwise, it's not going to stick it'll just be a science experiment. The second win has to be for the grid, especially when you're talking with respect to DERs, the proliferation of the DERs, there needs to be a thoughtful and planned integration into the grid. And only then can you get a huge benefit out of the DERs for the customer and the grid. The third win is for all of society, and we're at times where climate change is no longer an 'if', and we're all looking for solutions that that we can that can make a difference within our generation, otherwise, the future generations won't have a planet to depend on. So our intention with all of the GRE&T center pilots, whether it's the IESO non buyers, alternative pilot, or the powerhouse of powerhouse hybrid grid exchange be working on multiple platforms and and solutions. It's got to be it's got to be a win across board.   Rebecca Schwartz  12:31 Okay. Now, can you tell us how projects like these are influencing and innovating the grid?   Neetika Sathe  12:37 The conversation is focused on the need for reform, transformation and regulatory change. But until you don't roll up your sleeves and actually work on it, you got to be able to get into the trenches. It's really difficult to forecast what all roadblocks and hot points you're going to gather along the way. So the whole idea is that when we're talking about the need for policy change, the need for regulatory change that we bring real time experience from our pilots into our discussion so that those discussions can be grounded in reality, otherwise, there is a lot of vaporware in the industry right now.   Dan Seguin  13:21 What are some of the biggest modernizations you foresee being made to the grid by 2050? How is digitisation influencing these processes?   Neetika Sathe  13:33 So the grid is going to get much smarter, wiser, more intelligent, and more connected. If anything, or industry is a little bit late to the party, and we've and we have the good fortune, or the luxury of learning from other industries where this disruption has already happened. Be in the taxi industry, the banking industry, retail industry, hotel industry, they're all being transformed by digitalization. And they're all banking on one basic fundamental shift in demographics - the openness for sharing economy. So whether it's an Airbnb or you look at Uber, you have democratization of their solutions, whereby a common citizen is willing to share their assets, or their comfort or their lifestyle, as long as they're getting rewarded and incentivized in a way that works for them. So in other words, you've got a car that's sitting around, you're only driving around 4% utilization of that asset, but then you've got a little extra time. You don't mind becoming an Uber driver. And you're you're gregarious, you like hanging around people. So it works for you and you make some money. Think of those kinds of concepts now coming into our energy world, whereby that's where, that's how the birth of the concept of transactive energy takes place, whereby I talked earlier about the customer becoming a prosumer. But now those prosumers with their own distributed energy resources, should be able to play in an energy market and give some and get some. So you may be able to give some of your comfort or your or your battery storage, because the grid needs it, but then the LDC may reward you back with some dollars or some loyalty points. In fact, we are teasing this very concept out with our grid exchange transactive energy platform,   Rebecca Schwartz  15:53 Supposing everyone suddenly started putting their hands up to have distributed energy resources, would it even be possible? What are the challenges that we'll need to overcome to start seeing their mainstream adoption all across Canada?   Neetika Sathe  16:07 So the answer to this question is very similar to a Facebook status update, it's complicated. The devil truly is in the details at the distribution feeder, or transformer level, or even at a green transformer at a street level, it is impossible to generalize across Ontario or across Canada. So it really depends on the state of the grid infrastructure. If the grid infrastructure has room, it's easy to add the DERs. But if the infrastructure is already at its limit, be a thermal limit, voltage, capacity, then you're going to run out of you're going to need to think out of the box solution. So I'll give you an example. On your street, if you've got, let's say 12 homes, if one of those neighbors buys electric and starts driving electric starts charging the car, when they come home at five o'clock, no big deal, your green transformer on your street will be able to take that additional 10-12 Whatever that kilo kilowatt load turns out to be. Now, but out of 12 of those homes, let's say five electric vehicles come along. Now that green transformer at five o'clock is going to go toast, it will burn down because we would have taken it beyond its capacity limits. So how do you ensure that you can add these DERs on the existing grid keep in mind the existing grid was never designed for this kind of additional load, right. But there is a need whether it is because of democratization or decentralization, people want those energy choices, then as the utilities, it's our job to ensure that we are able to onboard these distributed energy resources. And the way to do it is start thinking outside the box. For example, perhaps we stagger, we work closely with the customer, we engage the customer, we take their permission, so the customer needs to remain in the driver's seat, we take their permission, maybe some customers say I really don't care if I start charging at five o'clock, or you want to start charging me at nine o'clock, as long as my car is fully charged for my trip tomorrow morning to work. Yet some other customer may say my wife's expecting and I may need to rush to the hospital, so I want to override and I want my car charged right now no matter what the consequences are. So the beauty with DERs is the fragmented. Think of them, like these hundreds of 1000s of minions out there that you could literally you could you know, like you could run a virtual power plant, if you were only able to talk to all of them, If only you were able to monitor control and engage with the customer one on one with these. And that's where the power comes from. It's really the power of shared economy and put intelligence on top of it to be able to really engage on a two way conversation with the customer and harness the value from these DERs. So hence the need from a smart grid so that these DERs don't exert demand all at the same time. So you can stagger them, you can queue them up, you can toggle them, you can throttle them. There are so many different options. intelligent ways to work around the problem rather than just go to the basic let's just upgrade all the infrastructure which will be tremendously expensive.   Rebecca Schwartz  20:10 Do you perceive maintenance becoming an issue as the system becomes more decentralized?   Neetika Sathe  20:16 So there are there are pros and cons to decentralization. Definitely grid modernization will require some infrastructure cost and some maintenance cost - it's going to be a new regime, different from your traditional way of running the grid. And keep in mind right now our systems rest at night. And the peak usually happens within Ontario. It happens during summer, during sunny days, because our peak is mainly coming from air conditioning loads. However, if we go into deep decarbonisation, and we want to run in heating on electricity, we are quickly going to turn from a summer day peaking province to a winter night peaking province. So that's going to look very different. And I don't have the answer, what the repercussion will be on on the system maintenance, but it is going to be a very different kind of a grid to operate.   Dan Seguin  21:22 I'm wondering if you could expand on some of the features that make the home or business a better candidate for distributed energy resources? What are some of the determining factors.   Neetika Sathe  21:34 So it all depends on the needs of the individual home or business. So in some cases, it's very simple. If you want to put solar panels on your roof, you probably if you have a 15 year old roof, or 20 year old roof, you probably want to change your roof before you put the panels up. And if you've got a large tree that is shading your roof and you don't want to cut that trim that tree down your roof is probably not the optimum optimal place to put that solar. So it's some of it is very intuitive. When it comes to electric vehicles, for example, it really depends on how you what your driving patterns are. 60% of Canadian drivers are driving less than 60 kilometers a day. But law of averages does not work when you're looking at a specific person's needs. So if you are traveling across cities every day, you've got you're putting a lot of clicks on your car, and you only have one car within the family. Probably the current EVs are not a good fit for you. But having said that, models are coming up where the batteries battery sizes are increasing. And the infrastructure for charging on the road on route is also increasing. But if you are a household of two cars, and you you're you drive 50-60 to 100-150 kilometers a day, you actually are a fantastic candidate to drive electric and enjoy the benefits of a cleaner drive and a much more fun to drive experience. So it really depends on the specific DER and how it matches up with your lifestyle.   Rebecca Schwartz  23:22 Alright, so how might someone who was interested in adopting distributed energy resources for their homes or business get the ball rolling?   Neetika Sathe  23:30 Do your research. Learn whichever best way you learn for me I love hanging around people I learned best by talking to people. If you if you're looking for EVs talk to someone who's driving an EV if you learn better by you know going for test drives and going for demonstrations like go to, for example plug and drive has an experiential center in Toronto or go to any of the dealers and ask for a test drive. There are so many websites including Aletra we have a website where we put a ton of resources on EVs. Alectra.com/e-mobility, so there's a lot of information out there. You do you Whatever floats your boat, but do your research and start whetting your appetite to figure out how what kind of DERS will fit your lifestyle.   Dan Seguin  24:25 Hey Nitika we're just about done. How about we close off with some rapid fire questions? What is your favorite word?   Neetika Sathe  24:35 It's got to be collaborate.   Dan Seguin  24:38 What is the one thing you can't live without   Neetika Sathe  24:42 Probably oxygen.   Dan Seguin  24:43 What is something that challenges you?   Neetika Sathe  24:47 purposeful innovation - how to innovate with intention   Dan Seguin  24:51 If you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Neetika Sathe  24:54 The ability to travel across time.   Dan Seguin  24:57 If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old What would you tell her?   Neetika Sathe  25:01 I would say don't over analyze. It's, it's not the destination that's important. The journey is important, not the destination. And the most important thing is the people that you meet and go along at on the journey.   Dan Seguin  25:19 And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector,   Neetika Sathe  25:24 I came into the utility sector because I sniffed a generational opportunity. I was, I was at Nissan, launching the Nissan LEAF, the first all electric 100% electric car from Nissan. And that's when my eyes opened up to this huge possibility of, of the automotive sector making a difference actual make actually making a difference in, in our sustainability. And really, it's the it's the power of discovering the possibilities. I know it's, it's a cliched line, this is Alectra's slugline, but I so totally believe in it, collaborating and discovering the possibilities, we actually have a generational opportunity to make a difference. And for once our electricity sector, for the most part in Canada, at least definitely in Ontario. And as you mentioned in Quebec, we are the part of the solution. We are not the problem, we bring the solution. So that's what really really excites me about our sector.   Rebecca Schwartz  26:33 Well latika, we've reached the end of another episode of The think energy podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. We hope you had fun. I sure hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. If so please head over to our iTunes SUBSCRIBE And leave us a review.   Dan Seguin  26:51 Now For show notes and bonus content visit ThinkEnergy.com. Also, be sure to tell your friends and colleagues about us.   Rebecca Schwartz  26:59 Thank you for listening

The Government of Canada has mandated that 100 per cent of car and passenger truck sales be zero-emission by 2035. All kinds of measures will be required to support this transportation evolution. Are Canadians ready to embrace this relatively quick transition over to EVs? What are all the barriers? And, do Canadian businesses and municipalities have a role to play in the EV evolution? Cara Clairman, President and CEO at Plug'nDrive (and a prominent leader in the EV space) joins us to share her unique perspective. Related Content & Links:  Find your EV match (total cost of ownership tool): https://ev.plugndrive.ca/ Book a test drive with Plug'n Drive: https://www.plugndrive.ca/electric-vehicle-discovery-centre/ Used EV rebate program: https://www.plugndrive.ca/used-electric-vehicles/ ZEVIP (NRCan funding program for infrastructure): https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy-efficiency/transportation-alternative-fuels/zero-emission-vehicle-infrastructure-program/21876 Federal EV incentive program: https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-technologies/zero-emission-vehicles Cara Clairman - Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cara-clairman-84967318/ --- Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:02 Hey, everyone, I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  00:04 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz, both from Hydro Ottawa.   Dan Seguin  00:07 Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the think energy podcast. And on today's episode, we'll tackle EV-olution of transportation. I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:02 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz. Hey, Dan, you have an electric vehicle, right?   Dan Seguin  01:06 I sure do.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:07 I'm curious. What's your experience been? Like? Would you recommend an EV for your one and only favorite co host?   Dan Seguin  01:13 Huh? Haha. I would 100% recommend one. I love my little EV. I've actually owned two. And now my wife has just ordered her very own. I have no regrets.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:28 That's good to know. Now, if I could just get a solid pay raise, I'll be able to afford one. Hint hint nudge nudge.   Dan Seguin  01:35 Hmm. I have some great news about that, Rebecca. First. Both the feds and some provinces have great incentive programs. With these rebates, EVs are really much more affordable. In fact, as part of Canada's goal to help fight climate change, there are plans to make owning these zero emission vehicle more accessible than ever before, through addressing affordability and adequate infrastructure. Today's guest will have lots more to say about that.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:09 Whoo visions of having my very own EV are getting a little bit more clear. You have my attention go on.   Dan Seguin  02:15 In fact, the pressures on the Government of Canada has mandated 100% of car and passenger truck sales be zero emission by 2035. All kinds of measures will be required to support this transportation evolution. Everything from incentives for zero emission vehicles, to investments in infrastructure to partnerships with auto manufacturers are being pursued.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:40 Wow, that seems so soon. But that's exciting. There are so many more things I'd like to know and ask. So here's today's big questions. Are Canadians ready to embrace this relatively quick transition over to EV's? What are the barriers and do Canadian businesses and municipalities have a role to play in the EV evolution?   Dan Seguin  03:00 Joining us today we have Cara Clairman, CEO and President at Plug'n Drive, and a prominent leader in the EV space. She's here today to provide us with all of the answers. Cara, welcome to the show. Maybe you could start by telling us a bit about your organization and its mandate.   Cara Clairman  03:26 thanks so much, Dan, for for inviting me to do this. Plugn' Drive is a not for profit. So we're out there trying to educate consumers on the environmental and economic benefits of switching to an electric car. And so most of our work revolves revolves around that outreach and education to help people make the switch.   Rebecca Schwartz  03:46 The Government of Canada has set what some might call an aggressive mandate for 100% of new light duty vehicle sales to be zero emissions by 2035. Why has Canada set this mandate? And how does it play into the larger picture of net zero by 2050.   Cara Clairman  04:01 So I'm sure a lot of your listeners will know that. Transportation is actually one of the largest emitting sectors not just here in Canada, but pretty much everywhere around the world. And in fact, in many provinces of Canada, transportation is the number one largest emitter larger than industry larger than buildings. And so we really can't achieve our climate goals if we don't tackle transportation. So of course, tackling transportation is a few a few different things, not just EV but EV is a ready technology that's here that would really really help in terms of reducing emissions from consumer vehicles, as well as now some medium and even heavy duty. And this opportunity is huge because if you just take Ontario for example. You know, our number one emission source is transportation and our electricity grid is already extremely clean. We're about 95% emission reduction if we switch to EVs, because our electricity grid here is already about 90 plus percent free of greenhouse gas emissions. And that's true in many provinces of Canada. So if you look at our electricity grid across the country, you have, you know, a number of provinces that are hydro only. So it's, you know, BC, Quebec, Manitoba. And so if you look across the country, we're already about 80% GHG free pretty much. And so it's just such a perfect match with the with improving the emissions from transportation. Across Canada, we have an extremely clean energy grid. And if you think about our electricity here in Ontario, it's mostly nuclear and hydro, a little bit of solar and wind, a very small amount of natural gas. So we're already about only 5%, five to 8% fossil fuel on the grid. So plugging into our cars into that grid offers a huge emission reduction at about 90 to 95%. So as a long way of saying, you know, requiring new EV sales is a relatively easy way for the government to start making the transition for the transportation personal vehicle fleet, and would allow Canada actually to achieve the net zero by 2050, which it really can't do if it doesn't tackle transportation.   Dan Seguin  06:34 Now, Cara, are you able to expand on how Canada's zero emission vehicle mandates compare globally? Are we on par with other countries?   Cara Clairman  06:44 Well, I'll answer that question sort of in two parts. How we are now compared to the globe and other countries and how we will be right now I'd say we're a bit behind. Because we don't have an aggressive enough, set of EV policies, and we have quite a patchwork across the country in terms of provincial policies. And so our adoption rates are actually on the low side relative to a lot of other countries, I'd say we stand around 10th right now, you know, in comparison to other countries that have, you know, better policies than we have. However, the policy of zero emission new sales, right, that's just new sales, we'll still have gas cars around for quite a while. zero emission, new sales by 2035 is, is quite progressive. And I would say it's not the most aggressive policy, there are a few countries ahead of us, like Norway has, you know, a mandate for 2025. And there are a number of European countries that have set 2030. But 2035 is definitely in the pack, I would say in terms of leadership in the top, you know, 10 or 15 countries. What we really need to do though, is make this a law, you know, right now, we just have a sort of a vague commitment to it. And until it's legislated, it really doesn't have a lot of meaning.   Rebecca Schwartz  08:16 What are some of the main barriers to zero emission vehicle adoption?   Cara Clairman  08:20 Okay, well, there's lots of barriers still remaining, although we're making lots of good progress. We did a survey about four years ago. And I think the results probably would hold true today as well, asking people about about what was preventing them from choosing an electric vehicle. And actually, the number one barrier was price, which surprised us we expected people to say range or lack of public infrastructure or something like that. But three to one, they actually said, they thought EV's were too expensive. And so we know that the upfront sticker price is is a problem for people, it is still a bit more expensive than the equivalent gas car. What people don't really know is that the total cost of ownership of an EV even at today's prices is less. But it's always a challenge to help people understand you're going to pay more now and save later. And we have to help people see the advantage of doing that. So I would say you know cost and then also education because you have to help people understand that total cost of ownership over time. And actually, to help consumers on that specific point we've, we've put a really great new tool on our website called find your EV match, which really helps you see the total cost of ownership for for electric vehicles income and you can even compare an Eevee to your existing gas car that you currently drive and see your monthly savings. And so this is a really, really important point. I would also say of course, you know, we do need more infrastructure. And there still is some range hesitancy concern. But I really believe that the range issue is going away as an issue as the battery technology improves. And of course, as public infrastructure improves,   Dan Seguin  10:14 okay, Cara - How is your organization working to build consumer awareness and education to help remove consumer concerns around EVs?   Cara Clairman  10:24 Well, I mean, Dan, this is what we're doing every single day. You know, we've built our whole program around helping the consumer get over their concerns. And so we're quite accustomed to every single concern and question people have. And basically we do it in a couple of ways. We have our EV Discovery Center in Toronto, which is, you know, a bricks and mortar facility, people can come learn all about EVs, no pressure to buy anything, and test drive the latest make some models. And we have found through our research that the test drive is key to helping people get over their concerns. And that's been a bit of a challenge during COVID, although we are back to doing test drive. And then secondly, we have our mobile EV Discovery Center or our MEET, which we take two smaller cities and towns all over to sort of bring the EV Discovery Center concept to them. And so that's a great opportunity for people to learn again, and a no pressure environment is fun. And then we have our roadshow, which you know, where we go out to even further afield a locations for a day or two days to give people the chance where they may not have any, for example, and EV dealers in their community. So we're really trying to reach everyone. And so that so those are the main things that we do. And I would just add the the other program that we have that we find is really helping consumers is our used EV program, which has a rebate attached to it. And we're doing this online through webinars. But it's to help people understand who who had that idea. Oh, you know, I love TV, but I think it's just too expensive for me, to help them understand that use TVs are a great opportunity affordable and available. And in the webinar we run through a you know sort of everything you need to know to choose the use EV that's right for you. And then plug and drive is offering $1,000 rebate to anyone who lives in Ontario if you buy a used EV   Dan Seguin  12:27 Eondering if you can tell us about plugging drives electric vehicle Discovery Center, and what goes on there?   Cara Clairman  12:33 So the Discovery Center is as I said, at bricks and mortar facilities, sort of imagined Science Center meets car showroom, you want to see some photos of it, you can just check it out on plugndrive.ca. And the great thing there is it's you know, interactive fun, like I said, like a science center, people come just for fun to learn. And of course, we aren't selling cars. So people don't have that pressure that they feel they sometimes have when they go to a dealership. And then we have all the makes and models sitting right there for people to test drive. And that test drive is so key to helping someone get over their concerns. Because a lot of the times people have a preconceived notion about what an EV might be like. And they don't realize like how fun it is to drive and that these are really fantastic vehicles with great pickup. And it kind of just reminds people of the quality and the fun. And then we can run through with them how much money they're going to save then the emission reductions. And our stats tell the story. About 35% of the people after visiting the center, within six months have bought an electric car.   Rebecca Schwartz  13:41 How can Canadian businesses support the transition to electric vehicles? And how can they acquire access to the proper funding?   Cara Clairman  13:48 Yeah, we've started doing a lot of work with businesses. And what we find is, you know, number one, what they can do is look at workplace charging, we know that the home is the number one place people want to charge about 80% of us plug in our cars at home at night, take advantage of low time of use prices. It's where it's convenient, all those reasons. But the second place people want to charge is that work. And actually studies out of California have shown that if someone sees a charger at work, and then talks to a colleague who has an EV at work, they're six times more likely to adopt an electric car. So one of the great things that business can do is put in some workplace charging and then also do some education around using that charging and help their employees get on board. And some businesses are even offering an incentive to their employees to consider an EV especially companies that are looking at their own GHG reduction targets and transportation might be one of the main emitters of their organizations. So they can use those charges for their own fleet. They can electrify their own fleet that way, and they can help their employees. So those are a couple of ways businesses can help support the transition. And then you've asked about access to funding there, there is some funding through NRCan the program is called ZEVIP where businesses can apply to get some funding for workplace tight charging systems,   Dan Seguin  15:25 it would seem that municipalities across Canada have a large part to play to support the government's mandate and to make charging stations more accessible. In your experience. Has this been the case? What's your view on the role municipalities play in the electrification of transit?   Cara Clairman  15:43 Yeah, municipalities do have an important role to play and I think they are starting to recognize it more and more. So for example, one role that municipalities are playing and it's proving really important is in terms of standards for multi unit buildings. So for example, a municipality can require a certain green standard for condos or multi unit buildings being built in their territory and that will ensure that the you know Ruffin is there for the plugs in future and that new buildings will get built with you know, with the ability or sort of EV ready to help their citizens because let's face it, especially in the Greater Toronto Area, a lot of people live in multi unit and we need to make it possible for these people to plug in. There's other roles they can play for example, we're seeing a lot of municipalities set up you know their own EV policies for their you know, for public parking, for example, street parking for, for different, making certain municipal lots available for charging, there's there's lots of ways that municipalities can help. And there are, you know, through the associations, there's sharing, I know of EV policies across municipalities, they don't have to reinvent the wheel.   Rebecca Schwartz  17:06 All right, Cara, can you talk to us about Canada's electric highway? Can we actually drive our east coast to coast?   Cara Clairman  17:14 Yes, you can. It's still not that easy, I have to say. But the thing I always want to remind is that this is not a trip that many people are doing. You know, maybe some of us have done it once in our life or, you know, it's the thing that happens very rarely. So it's not as critical. It's more of again, it's it's a nice to do, it's sort of a psychological thing. People think, Oh, it's great if you can, it's still a challenge, but doable and getting easier. You know, it's something that I would say, you know, it's not a trip I'm ever going to do. And I mean, I drive my car just more locally. So I wouldn't want people to hesitate getting an EV because this isn't the easiest trip to bake.   Dan Seguin  18:02 It seems that national sales of V's are closing in on 4%. What are your recommendations to accelerate the deployment of electric vehicles in Canada?   Cara Clairman  18:12 Well, there's just a whole bunch of things we need to do. So for example, right now in British Columbia, we're hovering around 10% of new sales, Quebec close to 8%. Ontario, we're down at 2%. And so you can see that the variability in the different policies are leading to very different results. And so there's a couple of things we need to make some consistency across Canada, because what happens when you have certain provinces with really aggressive policies and certain policies, provinces without it, the vehicle supply goes to those provinces with the more aggressive policies, and then it's really hard for people, for example, in Ontario, to get vehicles, and so that ZEV mandate or ZED standard that the federal government is talking about is really important for making, you know, some more consistency across the whole country. So I'm very supportive of that. I'd also like to see some consistent building codes across the country. It seems ridiculous that in 2021, where we still have condos and apartment buildings being built with no potential for EV charging in the future, and it's so much more expensive to do a retrofit than to do it when you're building a building. So the building codes need to be updated to make sure that the buildings are required to at least rough in for EV charging in the future. So that's another really, really important one. And then, you know, we, you know, I'd like to say that the time of needing incentives is over, it isn't over. We still do need incentives for the next couple of years. I think we're going to hit price parity in a few years time and then we won't need them anymore. But for now, I think we do it Because the environmental benefit is so large, I think it makes sense that governments continue to support it.   Dan Seguin  20:06 What about charging stations is charging infrastructure rolling out at the pace to support the transition to 100% zero emission vehicle sales by 2035?   Cara Clairman  20:18 Well, we do still have more work to do in the area of public charging. But again, I'm one of those people who doesn't think this is as critical to the rollout as some other things. You know, as an EV, driver, and Dan, you said, you're also an EV driver, we're charging at home, most of us are charging at home. And we are very occasionally using public charging. I only use public charging a few times a year. And I think I'm pretty typical on a road trip or work trip. And so you do need more infrastructure. We can't have single chargers out there. You know, we need to multiply those we need them to be in strategic locations. We need them to be in places where you can grab a bite to eat and use facilities and all that. So there's work to do, but I'm not of the view that this is a primary barrier to EV adoption. Really, the infrastructure you need is at home and it's ready right now.   Rebecca Schwartz  21:18 Cara, can you tell us a bit about the sentiment among automotive manufacturers? Are they embracing the transition to a EV's at all?   Cara Clairman  21:25 Well, we're certainly I mean, you really can't turn on your news or open your your apps, which is how most of us probably get our news these days without seeing a new announcement. So we certainly are seeing the commitment to EVs. In the future, where there's a bit of a struggle, I would say as sort of right now. Right now in Canada supply extremely low, it's quite difficult to get vehicles, all the manufacturers are ramping up. But that doesn't happen overnight. And so, you know, we need to do a bit more to get the vehicles in here right now. The exciting thing is, you know, here in Ontario, we're going to be making EV's in the next couple of years. And so the supply challenge will get fixed. And and then we're going to see, I think, you know, just massive changes, but for now the next year to two years, we definitely have a struggle to to bring in the vehicles. And we have to show to the automakers that Canada is a good place for EV adoption, because of course they send the vehicles where they think the best opportunity is to sell them.   Dan Seguin  22:29 Cara - Just wondering what should consumers know about zero emissions vehicles today? How has technology evolved over the past few years? And are there funding opportunities for consumers looking to purchase one?   Cara Clairman  22:43 Well, of course, I want people to know that. EVs are a fantastic option right now what I hear from a lot of consumers, which which is helpful is you know, yes, EVs are the future, I'm sure that we're all going to be driving EVs, but what I think a lot of people don't realize is that they're totally ready for primetime right now. Fantastic quality, good range, everything you really need is already there. And of course, the fun and the super great pickup and all those things too. And so I think, you know, people shouldn't hesitate, that that when they're ready for new car, this should be it in terms of funding opportunities. I would say, you know, of course, the federal government still has its $5,000 rebate available. And as we you know, in the election, we basically got the same government and they have committed to continue that so we know that will continue. Some provinces have a provincial incentive that layers on top of that. Unfortunately, we don't have that in Ontario right now, which is makes us a little bit of a laggard. Compared to other provinces, there are now six provinces with rebates, which makes it hard for Ontario to attract vehicles. So when people go looking for a vehicle, they're challenged to find one. What I would tell consumers that are looking for one and don't want to have to get on a waiting list is to look at the used market. There's a lot of great options in the used market right now. And of course, as I said, plugin drive has $1,000 incentive to buy a used EV and an extra $1,000 if you scrap an old gas car and buy used EV so so that's a great option if you can't find the new vehicle that you're looking for.   Rebecca Schwartz  24:28 In your view, Cara, what does the future of Canada look like when it comes to zero emission vehicles?   Cara Clairman  24:34 Well, I think I think pretty much everyone has realized even the most Die Hard sort of auto analysts who really really hesitated on EVs in terms of their reporting. I think even they have realized like this is coming there's no stopping it. The question mark is like how fast and I think groups like mine and other other EV sort of Advocacy type groups are really it's all about how can we get this transition to happen faster because if you agree that climate change is a crisis, we really can't wait for sort of a slow market transition, we need to do everything we can to speed it up. So if that includes incentives, that includes building codes, that includes ZEV mandate policies, that includes all sorts of local initiatives to try to encourage people to speed it up. But I do feel very optimistic that you know, we are going to see a huge swaying in the direction of EVs even by 2030.   Dan Seguin  25:37 Okay, Cara, how about we close off with some rapid fire questions?   Cara Clairman  25:42 Okay, skip the skip the favorite word. I really didn't have one.   Dan Seguin  25:46 What is the one thing you can't live without?   Cara Clairman  25:50 Coffee   Dan Seguin  25:50 What is something that challenges you?   Cara Clairman  25:53 Something that challenges me? Well, I mean, I guess the reality is in a nonprofit setting, you're always you're always having to raise money. And so that's always a challenge for anybody in the NGO sector. That's that's probably our biggest challenge.   Dan Seguin  26:09 If you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Cara Clairman  26:14 Well, I think I would love the teleportation oh my gosh, you know, I love EVs. But let's face it, there's still cars. And, you know, they still contribute to gridlock and traffic and all that and would just be so awesome to be able to just teleport to some other location.   Dan Seguin  26:32 Now, Cara, if you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self? What would you tell her?   Cara Clairman  26:39 I would tell her to do more public speaking. Who knew I would end up you know, doing so much public speaking in my career, I really didn't get started until I was much older. And I feel like it's a useful skill for any job just to feel confident talking in front of other people, whether that's five people or 500 people. So I would definitely say get yourself in front of an audience and practice public speaking.   Dan Seguin  27:06 And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector?   Cara Clairman  27:12 Oh, my gosh, my sector is so fascinating. You know, it's funny because I come from the electricity sector as you do. And I think there's a lot of people with this idea. That's kind of an old, stodgy, boring sector. And so I find it so exciting that there's so many opportunities for innovation. And it's not just EV, it's storage, and renewables, and there's just there's just so much of interest happening in the electricity sector. I hope young people are really looking at it for future career options.   Rebecca Schwartz  27:43 Alright, Cara, we've reached the end of another episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. Thanks so much for joining us today. We hope you had fun.   Cara Clairman  27:50 I did. Thank you so much for having me.   Dan Seguin  27:53 We reached the end of another episode of The think energy podcast. Again, thank you for joining us today. And Rebecca. I hope you had a lot of fun.   Rebecca Schwartz  28:03 I did. Thanks for having me.   Dan Seguin  28:04 Rebecca and I will be co hosting going forward in 2021. Thanks for joining us. See you folks.

In Canada, women represent approximately one to two percent of active powerline technicians working in the electricity industry. What are the barriers that these women face? And what improvements can be made for future generations of women? Lana Norton - Executive Director and Founder at Women of Powerline Technicians as well as the Supervisor of Field Metering Services at Hydro Ottawa joins us to share her experience since graduating as one of two women from a powerline tech program in 2010. Related Content & Links:  Lana Norton - Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lananorton/ --- Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:02 Hey, everyone, I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  00:04 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz, both from hydro Ottawa.   Dan Seguin  00:07 And we'll be hosting the ThinkEnergy podcast. So are you looking to better understand the fast changing world of energy? Every two weeks, Rebecca and I will be taking you on a tour and discuss some of the coolest trends, emerging technologies, and latest innovations within the energy sector.   Rebecca Schwartz  00:26 We'll be engaging in great conversations with game changers, thought leaders and industry leaders who welcome the opportunity to share their expertise and views with you, our listeners.   Dan Seguin  00:37 So stay tuned as we explore some traditional and some quirky facets of this industry.   Rebecca Schwartz  00:43 This is the think energy podcast.   Dan Seguin  00:50 Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast. And this episode is titled, The Wonder Woman of powerline technicians, folks, I'm Dan Seguin,   Rebecca Schwartz  01:01 and I'm Rebecca Schwartz. Hey, Dan, did you know that there are still industries that use gender job titles, and the default is always men? I'm thinking jobs like firemen, policemen, mailman,   Dan Seguin  01:14 Batman, Iron Man, Superman?   Rebecca Schwartz  01:16 Hmm, kind of like that, but not exactly. I'm also thinking about our own industry, and how within the energy sector line men is still very commonly used. You're   Dan Seguin  01:26 absolutely right, Rebecca. I think these gender job titles are an artifact from a bygone era, when women were forbidden to work, and later had very limited career options, the jobs you mentioned, and many more were deemed men's work. And so their title reflected that,   Rebecca Schwartz  01:47 right. And because it's taken so long for women to achieve any sort of equality in the workforce, and side note, we still have a very long way to go. A lot of these gender biases and male dominated fields still very much exist. And as a woman, I can say that it's kind of frustrating.   Dan Seguin  02:02 I know it's overly simplistic, but it makes you wonder if these gender bias job titles dissuaded lots of women from considering these careers,   Rebecca Schwartz  02:12 probably and I think the energy sector remains one of the least gendered diverse industries, with women making up only 22% of workers. And in the renewable energy space. It's just slightly better with 32%. But most of these are admin positions.   Dan Seguin  02:28 Hmm, I guess you're right. We do have a long way to go. Let's move on to today's big question. In Canada, women represent approximately one to 2% of active powerline technicians working in the electricity industry. What are the barriers these women face? And what improvements can be made for future generations of women?   Rebecca Schwartz  02:52 Well, I'm excited about our guest today Dan. Lana Norton is the executive director and founder at women of powerline technicians, a not for profit whose mission is to have women as equal participants in trade and technical roles in the energy sector. With a decade of field experience in Canada's electricity sector, she has held progressive roles and distribution operations. Now she's a colleague of ours here at hydro Ottawa as the supervisor of field metering services. Welcome, Lana. Maybe you can start by telling our listeners a bit about what drew you to the powerline Technician program.   Lana Norton  03:29 And thank you very much, Rebecca again for having me. Yeah, so I first attended the powerline Technician program just over 10 years ago, the journey that led me to the pursuing a career in the trades and as a powerline technician, was that it kind of it happened unexpectedly that I ended up in the trades and what kind of prompt and that was, I was a young mom. And so I became a mom at 20 and by the time I was 21, I was a single mom. In the next two years, I spent my time getting established and creating a life for my daughter and I and I was really on the path of you know, financial stability and what was that going to look like in creating a life for her and me. So to me, that was a career in the trades. And so, you know, I spent two years looking all over the province for you know, an opportunity within the powerline technician and I had one employer reach out to me and let me know of new school in Sudbury that was now offering a two year college diploma and powerline technician and from their employers where we're hiring out of that program because it would give apprentices a jumpstart on their apprenticeship and the knowledge and what we kind of brought into the trade,   Rebecca Schwartz  05:06 I understand you were the second woman to graduate from the powerline tech program back in 2010, at the first college in Ontario to offer the training, what was that experience like?   Lana Norton  05:16 I worked for it. When few people that have that have been like you that have come before you and gone through that you really do show up every day, and you're showing other people that you can do it. And at the same time, you're also building that skill and that resiliency within yourself. I was very fortunate. And, you know, I met a lot of amazing people along the way. When I was up in that power line program, you know, something that comes to mind is the, you know, I mentioned that I was a mom. And so my daughter had relocated to attend school with me. And yeah, in the time that I was up there, if she was safe, or if a daycare was closed, there were definitely instances where I had to bring her to class with me to write a test. And so, you know, me being the only woman there. When we parent and a group of 24 young men, they were like a bunch of brothers. And, you know, if I was still writing my test, and they'd finished my daughter, who was three at the time, you know, they would watch over her, so I could finish my test. So there was definitely a lot of really great things that came out of that program.   Dan Seguin  06:42 Lana, can you tell us more about the roles you've had, and what you love most about your job,   Lana Norton  06:48 Sure. So I was hired as an apprentice powerline technician. And from there, I took on a role as a field operator. And as a field operator, I worked as an intern, the system works in a 24 hour, seven days a week capacity if you're on rotating shifts. And you know, what I really enjoyed was, so as an apprentice powerline technician, you've got a view of the city, one job one specific geographical area, the time you're working on building this pole line. And and when I took on the role of the field operator, I became city wide, meaning that through like an outage that happened in the east end of the city, I was going there. And I was just as comfortable in the East operating equipment as it was in the west. And so I really enjoyed the overall view of the grid, and how the power moves throughout the city. And from there, I took on a field technician role. And so as the field technician, I was a member of distribution engineering, and asset management. And so what we did there was we did the overall planning and preparing the work to hand over to the crews to execute in the field. So there were a lot of large pull lines that we had to get built. And I was in charge of preparing that for the crew. In my current role, I'm a supervisor of metering Field Services, and I oversee a team of meter technicians. So with that, every morning, I'm preparing the team for the you know the day's jobs and revealing jobs, and timelines and the resources available to complete the work. My favorite part of the day is meeting with my team in the morning. And I get to hear their challenges and what they see in the field. And then how we can go ahead and problem solve that.   Dan Seguin  08:39 Maybe you could tell us about your nonprofit organization, women of powerline technicians and what motivated you to create it? And lastly, what are some of the benefits of joining your organization?   Lana Norton  08:52 Women of powerline technicians was first established in 2016. And we are the voice from the field committed to increasing women in trade and technical roles in Canada's electricity sector and beyond. As a national not for profit. Our mission is to have women as equal participants in the trade and the technical roles in the electricity sector. So our approach consists of two streams. We advise leaders through a gender equity lens on how to advance their diversity and inclusion goals. And women as PLT also offers programming. Our programming is open to men and women with a focus of supporting women in early mid and late careers in the trade and technical roles in our programming includes mentoring 24 seven peer group, career postings, networking events, we have a student bursary and the illuminate blog. What motivated me to create women's PLT was I'd mentioned earlier Dan, when you know when I first came through the program at cambrin I was the second one To do so, and up until that point in, in early 2010, I had heard, I'd heard rumors that there are other women doing this job in the province, but I couldn't specifically find find them and connect with them. And so after I graduated, many of the men that I made friends with in the program as they went on, and we all became employed in the province, could reach back out to me to say, Lana, like, I saw another woman working today. And so it was over that time that I was able to connect with those women and be able to, you know, like tie in the network. And it's the overall ability, knowing that you might be alone, where you are geographically, every day, because there are so few of us. But at the end of the night, you get to go home, you can log on online, and you can connect with those women. That was really the motivation, because we're not alone in this,   Dan Seguin  11:11 with skilled trade shortages across Canada. What would you tell women considering a career in this line of work? What advice would you give them, Lana?   Rebecca Schwartz  11:20 And what do you wish someone might have told you when you first started?   Lana Norton  11:24 women are able to do this. And when we look broadly, and especially in the recovery of the pandemic, we see we hear, it's out there that women are overrepresented in sectors that have been most vulnerable during recessions. And during the Coronavirus rate. So we see that women are over represented in service and hospitality and tourism. And these have all been slower to recover, when you put that in context. And you will also consider beginning of this month on October 1, there was a 10 cent an hour increase to the rate of minimum wage, bringing it up to $14.35. And you pair that with the Ontario government has has such a push on right now to support people in coming out of the pandemic, and upskilling and being able to train and, you know, take on jobs within the skilled trades, because there is a labor shortage there. But I would say that for women that this is the time that that you do need to plan your life backwards sometimes. And that. While it may not have been, you know, initially, most people I would say don't wake up in the morning thinking that the skilled trades are absolutely for me. But at any point during your life, you're you know, you're able to re evaluate that and where you want to be. And, and having, you know, a career in the trades provides that stability that that lifestyle, but maybe what you're seeking.   Dan Seguin  12:58 Now moving on, why do you think women are underrepresented in the energy sector, Lana?   Lana Norton  13:05 I think that the energy sector has been doing a great job in communicating ours and their value to customers. And through the different medium, and media platforms, we've been able to demonstrate that women are here, and that we're successful. As an industry, the expectations of our customers, I feel has shifted over time, right. And like, we see that here today with the podcast as well, that our customers are now expecting something different of energy companies and are expecting communications on the touch points of their lives. Historically, that line of communication hasn't always been open and available to our customers. And one of the effects of not having that open ended communication is that the customers don't necessarily see who's here, right. He's here, and he's keeping the light on and on the different jobs that are currently available within, you know, a local distribution company. So that visibility always hasn't been there. But it's through, you know, podcasts, that we're able to create that new line of vision into what it is we do. Right, so really speaks to you creating visibility for the sector. And so I would also say that there's always been a push to have women, you know, join the workforce, right. And I think over time that what people believe is that women were just going to start trickling in and that the numbers would just continue to grow and grow and grow with the times. And and we just haven't seen that to the effect that I think everybody thought that we would and so creating further visibility for what it is we do, really helps but when it also speaks to some of the historical underrepresentation meaning that you know, the career has been harder to find. And so if you didn't necessarily have a parent working within the energy sector, you may be yourself you weren't sure how to how to get that started.   Dan Seguin  15:13 Now I just learned from a recent interview you gave that in Canada, only one to 2% of powerline technicians are women, how can we close the gap in advancing the role of women in this sector?   Lana Norton  15:25 We're still sitting at the one to 2% as powerline technicians. And so how we can work in advance that number, quicken the pace of change. We've seen some brilliant initiatives and programs happen as of lately. So one of the ones I'll speak about is a Algonquin College, they put together a program called "We saved you a seat". And what that program does, it saves 30% of the seats for women in the top five STEM programs. powerline technician being one of them. And so you know, the research is there on the tipping point. At which point, you know, a class balance shifts, and that, you know, you no longer feel like you're one of the few but the conversation the dynamics in the class have started to shift. So 30% really starts mixing the gender balance. So we're seeing progressive movements in programs like that come forward, I also think that we need to set goals, and that we need to target the talent. You know, without setting a goal becomes very difficult to achieve. And we need to be intentional about who we're targeting. And you know, the talent that we want to come come work for us. It's also time that we change the conversation. Since the 80s, this conversation has been like more women in skilled trades, we're looking for more women in skilled trades. But the conversation I believe that you know, would be valuable and having is start explaining to, to the to the talents of the people that we want to come work for us what it is we exactly do like that we are building energy systems to power our future. we're advancing smart grid technology for netzero communities. And we're investing in energy storage. I think that would be a thing that you know, the new talent like they want to connect with, right? And then we're finding people that align with the goals that we're looking to achieve.   Rebecca Schwartz  17:38 So as the chair of the program Advisory Committee for the electrical engineering and the powerline Technician program for Algonquin College, what are you learning from new students and graduates,   Lana Norton  17:50 the new students are informed and they're prepared. And they have access to more data, more podcasts, more blogs, and more social media than we've ever seen before. And with that comes a lot of insight to to how things are evolving and changing in the trade and what those expectations are. And as leaders, we need to remain mindful of the knowledge that they're able to bring to the job. And you know, when we look at the electricity sector, there's been such an emphasis placed on tradition, right? Like, we are very traditional and how we do things and for the last 120 years, we've always set poles and, and the wires and that's our business and, and this new generation, they have a lot of insight and ideas. How to transform things and being able to take that information and and keep them engaged is something that, you know, I'm continually learning from that program.   Dan Seguin  19:00 In your opinion, how should employers in the energy sector be attracting, recruiting and retaining the next generation of women in trades?   Rebecca Schwartz  19:12 Basically, Dan is asking, what do women want?   Lana Norton  19:15 if we're looking at what women want, and they're looking for equal pay equal leadership and equal opportunities and electricity sector does a good job of this. You know, like when we look at equal pay, for example, that's a given based on the fact that we have a union in here and whether you like all level one apprentices are paid the same, all level two apprentices are paid the same. You know, and we have that and I may not be clear to somebody on the outside looking in, but that is something that is already there and given when you come to the table. So I think we're partway there. And when we look at equal leadership, although women are underrepresented within the electricity sector, the Equal Opportunities are here. Right? that women are given, you know, being given a chance to, to work their way into leadership, to take on different roles. And so in time, we will see that leadership comes, but, you know, like, equal leadership. But for now, you know, the pay and the opportunities are here, and inviting more women to, you know, come into the organization and join that just means that there's more of us among the ranks in order to move into leadership positions.   Rebecca Schwartz  20:51 As we talk about inclusivity and making sure that everyone belongs at work. Can you speak to some of the biggest challenges for women, it is clearly still a male dominated field. But is that changing? And is it fast enough   Lana Norton  21:05 for people living at the forefront of change? And speaking about the women, sometimes it can feel like it's simply just not fast enough. And then there are some that when reflecting on the history of providing an electrical service over the last 120 years, when all of the gains and diversity has been hiring a handful of women in the last decade, they can simply feel like the transition is too fast, only look at our energy systems and climate change. The reality is that it's simply not fast enough. It's a conversation about being better than we are today. And better includes diverse voices, and perspectives.   Dan Seguin  21:50 What excites you about the energy field of the future? What would you like to see or maybe even lead, we exist   Lana Norton  21:58 in a place where power has become a necessity and time without it is measured in minutes. And this speaks to the astounding reliability of our electrical systems and the people who are accountable to our customers. As we look to the future, I'm really excited by distributed energy resources and what they bring to our grid capabilities, and the ways that we will continue to evolve to meet our customer expectations. In the future, I would like to contribute in a larger way to the multilateral grid sustainability, and energy policy. For now though, I'm enjoying my time the metering team.   Rebecca Schwartz  22:40 Alright, Lana, how about we close off with some rapid fire questions?   Lana Norton  22:44 I'm ready.   Rebecca Schwartz  22:45 What is your favorite word?   Lana Norton  22:46 eliminate?   Rebecca Schwartz  22:48 What is one thing that you can't live without? My family? What is something that challenges you?   Lana Norton  22:53 Time   Rebecca Schwartz  22:54 And if you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Lana Norton  22:58 That I was good at telling jokes?   Rebecca Schwartz  23:00 And if you could turn back time to talk to your 18 year old self? What would you tell her?   Lana Norton  23:06 That you're going to enjoy the person that you become and you're going to be fiercely independent? Alright, Lana,   Rebecca Schwartz  23:12 lastly, what do you currently find the most interesting in your sector,   Lana Norton  23:17 the willpower of others, in recognising the need for change to transform our electricity sector to meet future climate targets, and energies   Dan Seguin  23:27 Well, I know, we've reached the end of another episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. Thank you very much for joining us today. I hope you had a lot of fun.   Lana Norton  23:36 I did. Thank you very much for having me.   Dan Seguin  23:40 We've reached the end of another episode of The think energy podcast. Again, thank you for joining us today. And Rebecca. I hope you had a lot of fun.   Rebecca Schwartz  23:49 I did. Thanks for having me.   Dan Seguin  23:51 Rebecca and I will be co hosting going forward in 2021. Thanks for joining us. See you folks.

When you try and wrap your head around what it will take to get Canada to net-zero by 2050, do you wonder what kind of energy transformation that will entail? With less than 30 years to hit net-zero greenhouse gas emissions, today’s topic for discussion is what it will take to revolutionize the way we consume and use all forms of energy. Here with us is Vince Brescia, President and CEO of the Ontario Energy Association, to share how we can achieve this goal. Related Content & Links:  Vince Brescia - Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vincebrescia/ --- Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:02 Hey, everyone, I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  00:04 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz, both from Hydro Ottawa.   Dan Seguin  00:07 And we'll be hosting the ThinkEnergy podcast. So are you looking to better understand the fast changing world of energy? Every two weeks, Rebecca and I will be taking you on a tour and discuss some of the coolest trends, emerging technologies, and latest innovations within the energy sector   Rebecca Schwartz  00:26 We'll be engaging in great conversations with game changers, thought leaders and industry leaders who welcome the opportunity to share their expertise and views with you, our listeners.   Dan Seguin  00:37 So stay tuned as we explore some traditional and some quirky facets of this industry.   Rebecca Schwartz  00:43 This is the ThinkEnergy podcast.   Dan Seguin  00:50 Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast and I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  00:55 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz. In November 2020, the Government of Canada introduced a bill setting the stage to achieve net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. Dan, how old will you be in 2050?   Dan Seguin  01:08 I don't know, Rebecca, you have to ask me then, when I wake up from my cryogenically frozen state along with Walt Disney, that's the plan.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:17 Okay, good to know   Dan Seguin  01:19 When you try and wrap your head around what it will take to get Canada to net zero by 2050, do you wonder what kind of energy transformation that will entail?   Rebecca Schwartz  01:30 I'm still thinking about what you said about being cryogenically frozen. But yes, I think it's going to be a massive undertaking and necessary one. Ontario currently produces 163 megatons of greenhouse gas emissions. And 76% of that is from emissions stemming from energy use.   Dan Seguin  01:51 Right. But when we talk about energy, we're not talking about electricity. We're talking about refined petroleum, primarily used for transportation and natural gas to heat our homes and buildings.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:05 That's right. Those two sectors, transportation and buildings make up 76% of the provinces greenhouse gas emissions, however, the electricity sector makes up only 16%. So here's today's big question. What are the keys to net zero success?   Dan Seguin  02:23 It's interesting, because, as you know, despite what the electricity sector in Ontario has achieved in terms of renewable energy, and curbing its greenhouse gas emissions, the conversation almost always still revolves around the electricity sector when it comes to climate change. Which brings us to today's show.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:45 Recently, the Ontario Energy Association released a white paper that reviewed various elements of the provinces energy system and the options available to achieve zero emissions by 2050.   Dan Seguin  02:57 Our guest today is Vince Brescia, President and CEO of the Ontario Energy Association.   Rebecca Schwartz  03:07 Vince, welcome to the show. Perhaps you can start us off by telling us a little bit about yourself and what the Ontario Energy Association does.   Vince Brescia  03:15 Thanks, Rebecca, and thanks for having me on the show. I'm the president and CEO of the Ontario Energy Association. I've been active in public policy work and research since the late 1980s, I guess, inside the government and in various capacities outside of the government, then I've been here at the OEA for the last five years and really enjoying it. Here's of who the OEA is we represent the the breadth of Ontario's energy industry. We have power producers of all the different fuel types, you know, whether that's nuclear, hydro, wind, solar, etc. We have demand response and storage. We have the large electricity distributors representing 75% of Ontario's customer base. We also have the natural gas distributors representing over 99% of Ontario's customers in terms of what we do the OEA conducts Public Policy Research and advocates on behalf of its members. And we also provide forums for education on Energy and Environment issues. So that's a quick snapshot of me and the OEA   Dan Seguin  04:27 Now Vince with respect to the government of Canada's goal to reach net zero emissions by 2050. What is the role of the Ontario Energy Association in this initiative?   Vince Brescia  04:40 Thanks. Yeah, reaching net zero by 2050 will be a massive undertaking, perhaps the largest infrastructure projects in our country's history. So our role at the OEA is going to be to leverage the expertise of our members and advise governments at all levels about how we can make this transition happen. while still maintaining the affordability and reliability of our energy supply, it's going to be a big challenge. And we're all going to need to work together to achieve this goal.   Rebecca Schwartz  05:08 So what kinds of major transformation will it take to achieve the government's goals?   Vince Brescia  05:14 I'll break it down in a couple of different ways. In Ontario, 76% of our emissions come from the energy we use. So reaching our goals will require a major transformation of our energy system. 23% of those emissions come from industrial processes and product use 10% of agriculture, percent based so that gives you the full spectrum of the emissions in Ontario. But because we're an Energy Association, we've focused on the energy component and the transformation required in the energy system. Or there are some overlaps. For example, we're hopeful some of those waste emissions can be turned into energy just as an example. But then turning to energy. Currently in Ontario 80% of the energy we use comes from fossil fuel sources. 48% is from petroleum primarily for transportation uses. Another 28% is from natural gas primarily to heat our homes and buildings. 16% comes from electricity, which is now a clean energy source. So altogether, achieving our goal is going to require us to transform 80% of our energy system. That's a big project. And the three big sources of emissions in Ontario are transportation, buildings and industry. Altogether, those account for almost 80% of our emissions. So we're going to have to swap up the fuels that we use in transportation, we're going to need to decarbonize our building heating systems. And many of our industries and businesses are going to have to adapt to new fuel sources. This gives you a sense of the scale of the challenge. But also with comes that comes with that is a large opportunity of the to go to go hand in hand.   Dan Seguin  06:56 2015 is 30 years away. But it's fair to say that Ontario's emissions have changed a lot in the past 30 years. Vince, can you give us a snapshot of how our energy use has changed since 1990. What sectors and provinces have improved the most?   Vince Brescia  07:16 In 2019. Just to give you a sense of where we're at Canada emitted 730 mega tons of ghgs of that Ontario represented 163 mega tons or 22% of the national total. Over time since 1990, Ontario's emissions have declined from 180 megatons to 163, which is a reduction of about 17 megatons or 9%. We still have another 19 megatons to go to meet our 2030 target of 30% below 2005 levels. That's not factoring in the recent national commitment by our Prime Minister to reduce emissions by 40 to 45%. By 2030. In terms of you asked about how you know how the provinces have, have compared and fared nationally, Ontario has made the largest largest progress nationally. That came primarily from the elimination of coal fired generation in the province. That one policy change resulted in a 31 mega ton reduction reduction in emissions from its peak in 2005. However, a lot of those emissions reductions in Ontario have been offset by increases in emissions from our transportation sector since 1990. Nationally, to give you a sense of how other provinces have done, you know, to the east of Ontario, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Quebec together, have reduced emissions by 19 megatons in total since 2005. However, west of Ontario, the emissions profile has been rising. So altogether, nationally, our emissions have been flat since 2005. And if you look back to 1991, they're up from the 600 megatons to the 730 we're at now.   Rebecca Schwartz  08:57 Vince, the Ontario Energy Association outlines six recommendations in the report, can you walk us through what those are at a high level and why you believe they're the keys to netzero success,   Vince Brescia  09:09 I'll do a quick walk through. Our first recommendation is that we need to move as quickly as we can on transportation fuel switching. And that's because we have almost all of the technologies we need to affordably transform the sector and because transportation is our largest source of emissions. So that's what we need to tackle first, and we can do it affordably. Second is we need to start reducing emissions in our natural gas system is our second largest source of emissions. And if we get time later, we can talk a bit about some of the things we can do in that area. The third thing we're going to need to do is to plan to expand our electricity system, all this fuel switching. I've been talking about like for example in transportation, and we're going to need it in industry as well. We're going to need a lot more electricity and we're going to need every type of resource. We're going to need nuclear, hydro, wind, solar storage demand response transmission, you name it, we're going to need the whole package to meet the amount of electricity that's needed. Some people talk about a doubling or tripling of our electricity. Some, we're gonna need a lot more electricity as we transform our economy. The fourth thing that we recommended is that we start to accelerate accelerate hydrogen programs and pilots, we're gonna need a lot of hydrogen in our future, because there's certain types of industrial processes and activities, where it's not so easy to swap out the fossil fuels that we use. And hydrogen seems like a highly likely candidate, or hydrogen based fuels. But we have a bit of work to do to develop those and make them affordable for customers. So we need governments to lean in and help with pilot projects, and put their thumb on the scale, so to speak, to accelerate this economy and help build the infrastructure that we need to service the economy. Fifth recommendation we made is that there be comprehensive energy planning, not just electricity policy. In Ontario, we have tended to have a history of focusing just on the electricity system. And you've heard me mentioned earlier, it currently only accounts for 16% of our total energy use. We now now need to think about our whole energy system holistically. And make a detailed plan about what it's going to cost, what the most likely pathways are. The final recommendation is that we're going to need federal, provincial and municipal coordination. All three levels of governments are active in the space, all are having an impact and can have an impact. But we're not going to be successful if they're not coordinating their efforts, or if they're working at cross purposes, or fighting each other's or turning issues into political wedges, you know, against each other. We need to all work together because you know, as I mentioned earlier, this is a massive undertaking. And if we're going to be successful, we all need to work together in coordination. So that's a quick summary of our recommendations.   Dan Seguin  12:11 You note that in order for the transition to be successful in Ontario, careful attention needs to be paid to three core pillars that are the underpinning of the energy system. What are those?   Vince Brescia  12:24 Yeah, thanks for asking. Now we know from from experience that are three critical pillars that underpin public support for our energy system. The first is sustainability, which encompasses the net zero discussion we are having today. our energy system must be sustainable over the long term, and that includes ensuring that we utilize energy in a way that ensures the environmental sustainability of our communities, and of our planet. Of course, the two other pillars, though, are affordability, and reliability. We have recent experience in Ontario that significant increases in energy costs lead to very negative customer and voter reactions. We must keep our customers informed and supportive of the transition, or they will rebel against the effort. Finally, our modern economy is also very dependent upon reliable energy. customers expect and depend on energy being available when they need it. If we go too long, without energy to heat our homes or power to run our economy, or God forbid, keep our cell phones charged. It causes major disruption for all of us. So our transition must ensure we continue to provide an energy in the reliable fashion that our consumers have grown accustomed to,   Rebecca Schwartz  13:36 In your opinion, Vince, what are some of the biggest barriers and challenges to achieve the 2015 zero emission targets? For instance, are there any activities that we can't fully eliminate?   Vince Brescia  13:47 Yes, some of the biggest barriers and challenges to achieving our goals will come from what some call the hard to abate sectors. These sectors are characterized by high material volumes, and finding alternative processes that are affordable, it's going to be a challenge for us. These are also some of our largest sources of emissions globally. And the big three are cement, steel and chemicals. Cement is one of the largest sources of global emission each tonne of cement produces about a half a tonne of carbon dioxide. And this has two main components. One is from the chemical reaction of turning limestone, which is calcium carbonate, and to lime, which releases co2. The other is from the energy component that we use to cook the limestone to over 1000 degrees Celsius, which is typically fossil fuels. So you have two elements, you have both an energy element and a chemical element that leads to large emissions from that sector. And that's going to be a challenge to decarbonize that sector. Steel is another one steel is the highest emitting industry in the world. It produces 3.5 Giga tons of co2 globally. Like cement, they're both energy In process admissions, we make primary steel out of iron ore, which is iron oxide, we add coal to the iron ore for its heat energy to essentially boil the you're kind of like we did we do for the cement, and for its chemical properties that allow us to strip off the oxygen atoms. This results in a chemical process where you end up with pure iron and co2 emissions. We produce steel in Ontario. And we also produce a lot of cars, which use a lot of steel and steel and a lot of other processes. So we're Ontario is going to have to tackle this one head on and it's going to be a challenge. The third big challenging areas, chemicals, petrochemicals and plastic production are the other large area of emissions globally and Ontario. There's a more diverse range of products here, but the largest one is ammonia, which we use for fertilizer in agriculture. And the next are ethylene and propylene, which are the most important ingredients and plastics. Again, there's going to be some difficulties and challenges and a lot of technology required to decarbonize those sectors.   Rebecca Schwartz  16:07 Let's talk about opportunities and leveraging technology and innovation. What's exciting you or giving you hope for the future?   Vince Brescia  16:14 There are some activities, we're going to need a lot of Innovation and Learning before we'll be able to eliminate emissions. According to the International Energy Agency, almost half the emissions cuts necessary for us to achieve net zero will come from technologies that are not in the marketplace yet. Some of the more exciting areas that are important and looked like they have significant potential, I would say are the following three hydrogen and hydrogen based fuels. governments around the world are developing hydrogen strategies. It looks to be very competitive globally, every major western country is working on a hydrogen strategy. And Ontario in Canada have some leading companies in this area like we have Enbridge Cummins hydrogenics, new flyer Ballard loop energy, planetary hydrogen, hydro energy, it's going to be a very exciting area is watching the hydrogen economy develop. That's what I'm excited about. The other one is energy storage, particularly long duration energy storage. We store lots of energy, now we have the technology. The costs are coming down fast. But what's really going to help us transform our economy is the ability to store energy for a long period of times and learn to do that affordably. There's lots of people looking at that and working on it, it's going to be a significant growth area. And I'm very excited about it. The third big one is is carbon capture utilization and storage, we are absolutely going to need carbon capture and storage if we're going to meet our netzero goals. One of the examples is cement, which I talked about earlier, I talked about this process where we boil the limestone and the chemical reaction leads to a bunch of emissions. The only thing I'm really hearing about from experts who know a lot more about this stuff than I do is that we're gonna need carbon capture to capture the carbon dioxide that comes from that cement. And cement. You know, as I mentioned, it's a very large global emissions producers. And that's just one example. There are lots of places where we're going to need carbon capture in our future to meet our goals. So there's a there's there's three areas that I'm excited about where I think we're going to see a lot of growth.   Dan Seguin  18:21 How important is energy affordability for Ontarians?   Vince Brescia  18:26 It's critically important. History has shown us that Ontarians react negatively to energy cost increase. If the government's Transition Plans a significant negative impact on energy and affordability. Families and businesses will rebel against the plan and the plan will get derailed. Oh, it is critically important. We have to keep it in mind.   Dan Seguin  18:45 What lessons can be learned from when Ontario's electricity rates increase to pay for renewable investments? And how can these lessons be applied to Canada's goal for 2050?   Vince Brescia  18:59 It's a great question. I'll give you my perspective. I think one important lesson we can learn from that experience is that sudden large spikes in energy costs are very upsetting to people and they draw lots of attention. They draw lots of political attention, lots of media attention. I think you can socialize the idea that costs may have to arise incrementally over time and get people used to the idea. However, most households don't pay much attention to public policy discussions and debates. They just look at their bill. They compare their last bill to this one, or this month's bill compared to this month last year to see how it's doing. So whatever plan we develop, if we can avoid sudden spikes, I think you can invoke you can avoid the negative public reactions, like the one we saw. That's what we can learn from that previous experience.   Rebecca Schwartz  19:47 Ontario's electricity system is one of the cleanest in the world. What does removing natural gas from the provinces supply mean for the reliability of the grid?   Vince Brescia  19:58 It's a great question. It's one that's getting discussed more. In the current climate, Ontario's Nash natural gas plants were built only recently to replace the reliability service offered by the coal plants we were shutting down. Once we had the capabilities of these natural gas plants in place, we were able to add a large volume of renewables to our system, resulting Ontario having one of the cleanest electricity systems in the world. These gas plants are like a backup to our electricity system. Most of the time the plants are not utilized much while we power the system with you know, nuclear, hydro, wind and solar and other other sources. That's why our system is so clean currently, because the plants are set seldom run at full capacity, so we get fewer emissions from them. However, when we have a large spike in demand on a really cool day, or a really hot day, these plants kick in to help maintain system reliability. They can be deployed on relatively short notice to meet urgent needs. Like the coal plants that they replace, these plants have access to something that is critically important for grid reliability, vast amounts of energy storage, this capability is not easy or affordable to replace. So we're going to need the services of these plants for some time before we're going to be able to replace them,   Rebecca Schwartz  21:12 can we replace natural gas to heat our homes and buildings and what will it take to make it happen? Vince,   Vince Brescia  21:19 we are going to need to maintain our gases to heat our homes and buildings for some time, we can change what goes into the system to make it cleaner and we can reduce the amount of energy we need from the system. I'll try and put it into perspective for you. The natural gas system currently provides about three times the peak energy of our electricity system. In other words, we would need to quadruple our current electricity system to meet the current peak heat demand if we wanted to transition to electric heat across Ontario. To give you a sense of the scale of that, if we were going to replace all of the gas system with electricity that would require about 24 nuclear generating stations. Or it would take 30 to 50,000 wind turbines paired with long duration energy storage, acquiring about 1.3 million acres for siting, you get a sense that this would be a pretty massive undertaking, and would probably be very expensive for customers. At the same time, we are going to have to expand our electricity system to deal with significant electrification and transportation, which we've talked about, and an industry which we've also talked about. So if we were to add the electrification of the natural gas system on top of that, that would likely not be achievable. So this informs the view that we should be looking at ways to decarbonize the natural gas system. And we're doing that now. Firstly, we've begun to blend renewable natural gas into our system, which takes methane from waste that was otherwise go into the atmosphere. Methane is a very potent greenhouse gas, making this a carbon negative activity. We're also blending green emissions free hydrogen into our gas system. Going forward, we'll be continuously exploring technological advances that allow us to increase the amount of that blend of hydrogen and renewable natural gas into our system. In addition, if we were to pair our current heating system with heat pumps, we can make a significant reduction in the amount of natural gas needed to heat our homes and buildings. On top of all of that, you know, research has shown us that we can affordably achieve significant reductions in the amount of natural gas use through building energy efficiency measures. So when you put all of those things together, you know, our view is that we can deeply decarbonize the natural gas system, and do that relatively affordability which reduces the scale relatively affordably as well and it reduces the scale of the electricity expansion that is going to be required. In Ontario for all these other activities we've talked about.   Dan Seguin  23:52 As we know from your report, refined petroleum makes up 48% of Ontario's energy use mostly for transportation. Are electric vehicles the answer to the transportation sectors greenhouse gas emissions problem here in Ontario.   Vince Brescia  24:10 Yes, they are a large part of the answer. Transportation as you mentioned, it's Ontario's largest source of emissions. passenger vehicles currently make up 57% of our transportation emissions, electric electrification of these passenger vehicles and a smaller short haul trucks and transit uses this can be done affordably with current technology, very exciting. I expect this transition to really accelerate and the next while for heavier and long haul transportation, we may need other solutions to be part of the mix. Long Haul and heavy transportation is less amenable to electrification because the batteries get too big and heavy and refueling time, you know adds significantly to cost for these uses. You know, we could be looking at learning compressed natural gas and renewable natural gas to to get to net zero most analysts seem to think that hydrogen fuel cells will be an important part of the long term substitution for heavy transportation. exciting part, as I've mentioned, we have a number of leading hydrogen companies in Canada and Ontario that are, that are making these these fuel cells. So it's also an economic opportunity for our province. And also, you know, you think of the materials for batteries and some of the the steel and inputs to the these vehicles that we're talking about, there's another economic opportunity there for Ontario. For some other transportations like ships and planes, we're just going to need alternative fuels. And again, the batteries be too heavy, you need a high energy density of the fuel. And we have, we may be looking at variants on hydrogen fuels like ammonia, that are very, very dense in energy in order to the fuel all those activities. And what we're going to do to try and figure out as a way to develop those supply chains affordably to set out those users.   Rebecca Schwartz  26:04 Alright, then, how about we close off with some rapid fire questions?   Vince Brescia  26:08 All right,   Rebecca Schwartz  26:09 what is your favorite word?   Vince Brescia  26:11 Reason   Rebecca Schwartz  26:12 What is one thing you can't live without?   Vince Brescia  26:14 Air And Starbucks coffee.   Rebecca Schwartz  26:17 What is something that challenges you?   Vince Brescia  26:19 golf. I keep trying, but it keeps challenging me.   Rebecca Schwartz  26:22 If you could have one superpower events, what would it be?   Vince Brescia  26:26 Time Travel   Rebecca Schwartz  26:27 If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self? What would you tell him?   Vince Brescia  26:32 Oh, with my new superpower, I'd say invest all your savings and Berkshire Hathaway and leave it there.   Rebecca Schwartz  26:38 And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector?   Vince Brescia  26:42 You know what I love the technological innovation that is taking place in our sector. I mean, we've been talking about it today. It's exciting. It's a very exciting time to be part of the sector. I'm learning every day about new technologies and processes. And I love it.   Dan Seguin  26:59 Well, Vince, we've reached the end of another episode of The think energy podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you had a lot of fun.   Vince Brescia  27:08 I did have a lot of fun. Thank you so much for having me. This was great.   Rebecca Schwartz  27:13 I sure hope you enjoyed this episode of ThinkEnergy podcast. If so, please head over to iTunes and give us a review and subscribe.   Dan Seguin  27:21 And for show notes and bonus content visit ThinkEnergy.ca. Also, be sure to tell your friends and colleagues about us.   Rebecca Schwartz  27:30 Thank you for listening.

Storm season is truly any season. And during a global pandemic, as we've become more dependent on an uninterrupted supply of electricity (so we can work and learn from home), the consequences of storm-related power outages have been heightened. So here's today's big question: How are utilities facing the eye of the storm? What's involved during these critical times to keep the system and people protected from outages? To answer these questions today, we have the Director of System Operations & Grid Automation, who leads all restoration efforts for Hydro Ottawa: Joseph Muglia. --- Related Content & Links:  Hydro Ottawa outage map: https://hydroottawa.com/outages --- Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:02 Hey everyone, I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  00:04 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz, both from hydro Ottawa.   Dan Seguin  00:07 And we'll be hosting the ThinkEnergy podcast. So are you looking to better understand the fast changing world of energy? Every two weeks, Rebecca and I will be taking you on a tour and discuss some of the coolest trends, emerging technologies, and latest innovations within the energy sector   Rebecca Schwartz  00:26 We'll be engaging in great conversations with game changers, thought leaders and industry leaders who welcome the opportunity to share their expertise and views with you, our listeners.   Dan Seguin  00:37 So stay tuned as we explore some traditional and some quirky facets of this industry. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast. Hey, everyone, welcome back to the ThinkEnergy podcast. I'm Dan Seguin. We're going to do things a bit differently today. Instead of our regularly scheduled program, I'd like to introduce my new co-host, hydro Ottawa's very own social media guru, and content and communications planning officer. Rebecca Schwartz.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:12 Hi, Dan. Hi, everyone.   Dan Seguin  01:14 Rebecca, welcome to your first episode. As a co host of the think energy podcast. Maybe you can introduce yourself to our audience, and what drew you to the energy sector?   Rebecca Schwartz  01:26 Thanks, Dan. I'm super excited to be joining the ThinkEnergy podcast for my first podcast ever. as Dan said, I manage hydro Ottawa as social media platforms. But what a nice change to be able to talk to you all in a little bit more of a personal way today. What drew me to the energy sector has to be the fact that everyone uses energy. It's meaningful to work in a sector that influences everyone in such a powerful way. Pun intended. When the lights go out, I'm reminded of just how connected we all are sharing the same grid and enduring outages together. It makes me feel like I'm part of something big, especially when I can communicate important updates to customers during these times. In general, though, with increasing environmental concerns and plenty of innovative technologies being developed, it's an exciting time for the energy sector. It keeps my job interesting and challenging.   Dan Seguin  02:18 Rebecca and I are going to co host episodes going forward. Think of dynamic duos like Laurel and Hardy. Fred and ginger Mulder and Scully.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:31 Ummm I don't know any of those people.   Dan Seguin  02:33 Okay, how about Jay Z and Beyonce, Mary Kate and Ashley, Brock and Michelle? Ah,   Rebecca Schwartz  02:40 yes. Okay. I promise to brush up on my Dynamic Duo history.   Dan Seguin  02:45 The title of this week's episode is "the eye of the storm", Rebecca. I don't know if it's just me. But it seems like every season is storm season. Nowadays, in Ottawa, we've had more than our fair share of winter ice storms, spring floods, and in the fall of 2018 tornadoes.   Rebecca Schwartz  03:04 Well, warm weather and summer sunshine tend to give us a false sense of security from power outages. But the truth is summer storms are a consistent threat, thanks to extreme heat and humidity, particularly when that combination manifests into dangerous heat waves, lightning, strong winds, hail and thunderstorms. Mother Nature doesn't seem to differentiate anymore between when storm season begins and ends anymore. It's like she's thrown up her hands justifiably annoyed with us about climate change, which means utilities must always be prepared for any extreme weather event no matter the time of year.   Dan Seguin  03:43 storm season is truly any season. And during a global pandemic, as we've become more dependent on an uninterrupted supply of electricity so we can work and learn from home, the consequences of storm related power outages has been heightened. So here's today's big question. How are utilities facing the eye of the storm? What's involved during these critical times to keep the system and people protected from outages?   Rebecca Schwartz  04:15 To answer these questions today, I have director of system operations and grid automation, who leads all restoration efforts for the capitals utility. Hydro Ottawa's Joseph Muglia.   Dan Seguin  04:29 Hey, welcome, Joseph. It's great to speak to you again. I think a lot of people want to know what it takes to keep the lights on for a city like Ottawa. Given your role, I'm assuming you've been in the office and in the field throughout the pandemic. Can you tell us a bit about what the director of systems operations and grid automation does?   Joseph Muglia  04:53 Thanks for having me, Dan. So first of all, my role is really comprised of three different groups within the within the company with, I would say four areas of responsibility. So starting off, like, in my team, I've got the substation group, which takes power from our provincial supplier and basically helps to distribute that power across the city through the wires and things but, but the substations are the main points where the power is coming from into our different communities. The second very important group within my team is system operations and system office. So system office really is, I would say, the control group. So they're taking the power that comes from the substations and, and distributing it properly across the city through the lines. So basically, they have the control of like limiting power, they can shut power off in certain areas, if we have to work on wires, they're doing that control of the flow of electrons throughout the system. So in an emergency, they can do isolation so that our crews can work safely. If there's any sort of power outage that's required, like a planned power outage, they can do that, so that we can work safely and upgrade our equipment. So that's really the role of system office, system office and system operations. They're also part of system operations is also our 24/7, and emergency response as well as our field ops. So they're really monitoring the system on a 24 hour, seven day a week basis. So if there's any issues that go on at nighttime, while people are sleeping, if there's a storm that hits during the day, or at night, or on the weekends, it's our 24/7, and our field operators that are responding to those calls. Initially, especially now if the call gets more involved, we we usually bring in additional forces, but it's really the 24/7 folks that are out responding. And finally, the third part of of my team is the metering group. So really, they're they're the folks that are distributing the power to our individual customers, every single customer in the in our service territory is involved with the metering group. So whether it's commercial, industrial, institutional, doesn't matter. Our metering group are the ones that that interface with our customers.   Rebecca Schwartz  07:25 So Joseph, let's talk about the pandemic that shall not be named, shall we? Sorry, huge Harry Potter fan here. So what kinds of things have you and your team been doing to keep power flowing through homes and businesses during the pandemic? Was there more stress knowing just how much more people relied on it to stay connected?   Joseph Muglia  07:45 So that's a good question. So, you know, typically, pre pandemic, we know where work centers are, we know where the offices are, throughout the city. And, and so we can sort of focus our efforts to make sure that those areas that are, you know, largely populated with folks that are working, that power is not interrupted as much as possible. The problem with the pandemic was that the entire city became work centers. So all of the homes became work centers, in addition to a lot of the work centers that already existed. So now what happened was, the emphasis went to keeping everybody connected as much as possible all the time. Because now you're not just affecting the offices of Hydro Ottawa, but you're affecting the offices of Hydro Ottawa, throughout the entire city, where everybody is basically living. And that's true for all the businesses so, so this caused us to put more emphasis on our infrastructure, make sure that our infrastructure is kept up, you know, maintenance wise to make sure that we're limiting our outages, for instance, to I think we limited them to two hours maximum. And that creates like a cost and a logistics issue for sure for us, right? Because we're not taking advantage of a full day anymore, or like in a residential area where we would be doing upgrades for instance, where we could take the power out through system office, as I mentioned earlier, we can take that power out for six or eight hours now. It was you know, truncated down to just a couple of hours. So, that becomes very difficult to to make sure that our crews are working as efficiently as they can. But it was it was very limiting for us from a from a construction perspective. So, yeah, definitely more pressure again on the focus of our assets and the focus of our our construction crews may Making sure that they're staying busy and doingas effective work as possible throughout the day,   Dan Seguin  10:05 It seems like storm season is every season now, what kind of emergency preparedness planning or training goes on, in order to be crisis ready for any storm?   Joseph Muglia  10:17 At hydro Ottawa, we regularly keep our folks up to date with all of the training required on a day to day basis for their jobs. In addition, storm preparation involves more like training on, I guess, tabletop exercises and mocking different disasters that could potentially happen. So we've introduced that into our training as well, which we're putting a lot more of our folks through that training now. Because some things that were that have been identified to us was that we've got this core group of people that are well trained in that, but we need to expand that team so that we've got additional resources in you know, that can that can respond to different emergencies. So we're working on a training schedule now thatwill encompass the entire year, that will, at regular intervals, train different folks across the organization to be able to respond to these types of things. In addition to that, also at the contractor and the supplier level, we have to maintain good relationships with them, and relationships that we wouldn't normally have in the past, or we may not have had in the past. So we've got better, I think, better relationships, working relationships with folks that can deliver us materials or provide assistance, whether it's mutual aid assistance, or contracted forces that can come in and help us in the event that we need the help. Like if we've been hit with a big emergency or a big incident across the city where we've got more work to do than our crews can handle. For instance,   Rebecca Schwartz  12:06 Working for Hydro Ottawa's social media team, I know just how important communication is, from sharing our storm readiness to providing information when an outage happens, it's caused status and Restoration Times. So Joseph, what goes into establishing accurate Restoration Times? Is it based on historical data?   Joseph Muglia  12:27 So Restoration Times are a very difficult thing. And I don't care what utility you're involved with. But restoration time is really one of those things that continues to be a challenge year after year. Initially, when we see an issue on a feeder or a conductor somewhere, the initial restoration time is generated through historical data that we would have. And that data is based on what we think the issue might be. And again, it's from our system office folks that will see you know, a particular type of issue that they're seeing on the system and the historical data will give an approximate time of restoration. Now, nothing beats a field visit, right? So that initial restoration time will be generated automatically. And then, in the meantime, we've got crews that are dispatched and are on the way to whatever the issue is in the field, once they get there, they're able to better assess what's involved. So when they get there, it might be completely different than what you know, our historical data was telling us or what system office was seeing in the field. And so the field crews are then able to better approximate what the restoration time will be. And then as the restoration is proceeding, there could be other factors that are that come into it and affect restoration time again, and which is sometimes why you see a restoration time getting shorter or longer because it you know, there might be other equipment in the field that we didn't initially know was going to be included. And ends up being included in the restoration as well. So it's a very tricky art, I would say not much of a science. It's more of an art.   Dan Seguin  14:24 Joseph, you've done some videos for us. And most recently you did one about our outage map. How is the map valuable and what other service offerings might be coming down the wire?   Joseph Muglia  14:37 Yeah, so first of all the outage map is is definitely an excellent tool. I think it keeps our our customers and our communities up to speed on what's going on when there is an outage. And so it's it's an extremely valuable tool for people to use to to make sure that you know they're they're being kept up to date. with what's happening with a particular outage going on in their area. In addition, now, you mentioned the battery programs. So this is something new that we started just in the past year, where if there's an extended planned outage that we're looking at it for a certain neighborhood, we're able to actually lend out some chargeable batteries. It's sort of a unit that has a number of different plugs that are involved in receptacles, and things where people can, for a period of time have some power available to them, you know, while their power is out, and while we're working on the equipment that supplies their home, so I think it's a great opportunity for folks to take advantage of that. We're still working some of the details behind it. But it's been it's been a great success. So far, we've had nothing but fantastic feedback on that program. So basically, if we know there's an outage in your area, we will offer you a battery. And people can keep their electronics and certain other things charged while their power is out. So I think that's, that's very innovative and very forward thinking. SMS. So we've got, we've got text to your phone right now, during a planned outage, we can let you know, through text messaging that there will be a plan power outage, you know, in your in your neighborhood. So that's also been working well. And we're also working toward, although we're not there yet, but more text messaging and notifications in the event of an unplanned outage as well. So I think that's probably something that people are dying to have. And I know there's a lot of work in the background, believe it or not to get it there. But we are working on that that's on our roadmap. And we're looking at having that available to our customers soon. So stay tuned for that.   Rebecca Schwartz  17:02 When an outage happens, can you tell us how and why people should report it and what happens after they do?   Joseph Muglia  17:10 So reporting an outage is extremely important, not just for the individual to let us know that we know there's a power outage. So like sometimes the power, if someone experiences a power outage, it could be their own equipment, it could be a broader issue, you know, on their street, or it could be their their whole subdivision, for instance, or the area. So it's important to let us know as soon as possible, I would say 80 or 90% of the time, we know when people are calling in that there's a power outage. But again, if it's a localized thing, and it's just their particular address, or just their street, it may take us a bit more time. before we're aware of that. So any call that comes in, we begin to build like a grid to so that we know like okay, we've got a call here we've got a call in that area. And it starts to build a bigger picture. And it helps us to determine what's going on. Right. So very important that people are calling in. It's important again, for the customer, it's important for their neighbors as well, right. And it's important for us, because it helps us get on the situation as quickly as possible. People can call through the website, hydroottawa.com they can go through Facebook, they can call our outage hotline at 613-738-0188. Certainly any of those avenues, the information will get to us and we can start processing and figuring out what the issue is so that we can look to restoration.   Dan Seguin  18:49 I'm going to knock on wood right now. But say a major summer storm hits the city, causing mass blackouts. How do you decide who gets restored first and why?   Joseph Muglia  19:02 So from an institutional perspective, like it's great to get the hospitals on the big government offices on as quickly as possible. After that, and I mean, the hospitals generally have generator backups. So that's been less of a concern than perhaps in the past. But I know there are some big grocery chains also that have battery have generation of backup generation. So that's awesome as well. But really, what we look at is trying to determine, you know, where we can get the biggest bang for our buck. So what what can we do from a system office perspective in conjunction with what's going on in the field to bring up as as many customers as possible, as long as it's being done safely. Right. So so we'll look to to see across the board, what makes the most sense to get As many customers as possible up, then from there, once we get the bigger pockets resolved and their backup, then we start working our way to the smaller and smaller areas. There are times when we have to actually increase the size of an outage in order to resolve it. That happens once in a while as well. And sometimes people will experience their power come back, and then they'll lose power for a period of time again, because we've had to isolate different areas in order to do a fix so that we can bring up the entire area. So that's, you know, that's often what happens. And I know people probably don't understand that. But I think it's an important point to bring up because sometimes you may experience another shorter outage after your power has been restored. And that's because we've had to do that in order to bring up the you know, the, the bigger section that might have been out.   Rebecca Schwartz  21:03 So Joseph, tell us what's been the biggest crisis or emergency that you've experienced in your role? And what did you learn from it?   Joseph Muglia  21:12 There's really been two in my career, I think, while it's been more than that, but two that stick out in my head. And that is, prior to having this role. I was in Alberta. And in 2013, we had flooding in Alberta, that was that blew my mind, to the point where the South Saskatchewan River was flowing through the city I was living in, and the water level was about a foot or two away from the banks of the bridge, that would have basically separate the city in two halves for a number of months. So that was that blew my mind. The second one was in 2018, the tornadoes here in Ottawa, which was I know, like we talked about it, probably less now, but that's still, you know, very, very much burned in my, in my mind, what we went through through those tornadoes. I may sound a bit cliche here, but I think that teamwork perspective, is probably the thing that I learned the most out of both of those issues, and not just teamwork for the folks on the ground that were actually doing the work that needed to be done the restoration. And I think, you know, largely about the restoration that went on here in the city during the tornadoes, but really like from from the perspective of our crisis communication team, our communication, you know, the basically the team that you folks are are involved with, that was hugely important to get the messaging out properly and clearly and efficiently. All of the management staff that went into the coordination and the logistics of getting materials to us of keeping you know, the the crews busy the fleet perspective of that restoration, just keeping the vehicles running, all while we had like power outages going on all over the place. We also had dips in our communication, like, we started to lose cell phones, I remember early on in the tornadoes as well. So for our IT department that posed challenges for them, but we were able to, through crisis, I think come together quickly. And and really focus on what needed to be focused on and leave sort of, you know, the the external stuff out of it. I think the most important thing is preparation ahead of time before something like that to hit again. And that's why I talked earlier about tabletop exercises and and mock disasters and going through like what the logistics look like because it's true, like as soon as you have a plan, the first casualty is the plan. Right? So if you don't know it, intuitively, you're gonna forget what the plan is. And then people scramble, right? They just naturally scramble. So the more and I know we were doing it in Alberta, too, is like the more of that training you can do up front to get people thinking about it and what's involved, the cleaner the restoration becomes. So that's probably been my biggest takeaway.   Dan Seguin  24:44 I've been learning that it takes a village to tackle major storms. Can you talk about the human side of your work? Who are the people and what are their roles in a crisis?   Joseph Muglia  24:56 There's so so many people like if I if I think about it, the frontlines, it's our 24/7 folks, it's our field operators that are the first response. Moving moving away from that, then we've got our on call, folks. So there are daily crews that go through a rotational process where if we're met with an incident during the night or on a weekend or something, there are crews that we have standing by so that they can assist with 24/7 and a bigger restoration. They are our biggest frontline defense, I think between, you know, acts of nature and keeping our folks connected. Right. So, but, and and those folks are extremely important. And, you know, God bless them, because they are there for us when we need them. And it doesn't matter the weather, it doesn't matter, you know what going on out there. They're, they're there, and they do it. But I think we also need to mention the folks that are in the office and are in our like directing stuff from the office, right. So there's our field supervisors and, and like our folks that are involved, again, with fleet, with procurement, with so many different things with finance, even our engineering and our tech folks, our GIS folks like all of them. So incredibly important when we're faced with an issue, because we need just about all of the, you know, the expertise and all of those different groups to help us sort out how we restore, particularly if we've got infrastructure that's on the ground. We need our design, folks, we need our engineering folks and our standards folks to help us, like figure out how we can best restore this in the quickest amount of time safely, so that our folks can experience you know, what they experience every day. And that's almost completely uninterrupted power, right. So, the entire team, I can't really chunk it down any more than that. And I can't say that any group is probably more important than the other because, like you said, it takes a village, right. And it really does during an incident,   Rebecca Schwartz  27:25 What new developments or innovations are exciting you about your job, or the industry in general right now?   Joseph Muglia  27:32 Early on, I mentioned my group, it can comprise of three different areas, the stations, the system operations and metering. But I didn't mention early on and I didn't get into it. The fourth piece of the fourth piece of my existence really is the automation. And so we're going through a really exciting time, as far as I'm concerned, in the electric industry, where we're we're looking at more automation in our system, building automation into the system so that we can restore power a lot faster, we can restore power remotely, rather than have, you know a crew being dispatched and going into the field. So a lot more automation within our system operations groups and groups so that more switches and more devices can be controlled within the system office rather than in the field. With automation, we can also reroute power automatically. So the system can sense a conductor or a piece of like a piece of a feeder that's out. And it can reroute power in a different area so that that restoration can happen instead of hours, it can happen in seconds. Now we're quite a ways away from that. But that's some of the stuff that we're we're moving toward. More devices in the field that will give us data that that we'll be able to use that data to make better investment choices, for instance, or, or better decisions for our customers, or having that data so that we can give that data to our customers and they can make the decisions that they want to make right. With a more automated grid, we can also introduce a lot more DERS or distributed electric resources. So more solar more wind, different ways of introducing electricity into the grid so that it helps us It helps us with reliability with with just you know volume of electricity in the future that's going to be required, right for EVs, like the introduction of EVs and the sustainment of more EV's in our system. An automated grid will help us do all of that and more right, including battery storage and things like that. So it really brings us to the next level. And the problem is that traditionally, an electric utility has been a bit more conservative like, we don't necessarily introduce a lot of technology early on, because we're needed as a very reliable source of energy. Right. And so we can't play around with too much technology until it's proven out. But we're getting to a point now where we see so much on the horizon that's available that the electric grid can can offer our customers and even other other LDCs other electric distributors, you know, there's so much that we can be doing with what we've got already. And with the introduction of a little bit more technology in the field. So I think that's by far in this industry, probably the most exciting.   Dan Seguin  30:57 Okay, now, how about we close off with some rapid fire questions?   Joseph Muglia  31:03 Okay   Dan Seguin  31:04 Joseph, what is your favorite word?   Joseph Muglia  31:08 My favorite word? I probably say, passion.   Dan Seguin  31:13 What is the one thing you can't live without?   Joseph Muglia  31:17 Probably my espresso machine.   Dan Seguin  31:20 Okay. What is something that challenges you?   Joseph Muglia  31:24 Probably the ongoing fight for my focus, right? So with like, an ever changing world there, there is like so much coming at us. And it seems like there's so many distractions to what you want to focus on. And I think that's, that's probably the biggest challenge for me is trying to stay focused on certain things when you're being bombarded.   Dan Seguin  31:47 Here's a good one. If you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Joseph Muglia  31:52 I would say, if I could look into the future by about 15 minutes or so that would be the power, right? That would be awesome.   Dan Seguin  32:01 Okay, you've got word of a massive thunderstorm approaching Ottawa in the next few minutes. What's the first thing you do?   Joseph Muglia  32:09 So the first call would be to our field supervisors to hold crews back to make sure that people are not leaving too early at the end of the day and out of the parking lot too quickly because we're probably going to need them. I would say that's probably my first phone call my first thing that I'm going to do.   Dan Seguin  32:29 And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector,   Joseph Muglia  32:35 most interesting in my sector, I would say the human element of it all, is probably the most, the most challenging and the most rewarding. And I saw that a lot, particularly through the pandemic and all of the changes that the pandemic brought. My team was, was largely, you know, they continued to work. They weren't put on any, any sort of rotation or anything. And, and so some of the challenges that that created was, I think it was it was very interesting that again, the human element of work is, I think, the most rewarding and the most challenging.   Dan Seguin  33:21 Well, Joseph, we've reached the end of another episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. Again, thank you for joining us today. And Rebecca, I hope you had a lot of fun.   Rebecca Schwartz  33:32 I did. Thanks for having me.   Dan Seguin  33:33 Rebecca, and I will be co-hosting going forward in 2021. Thanks for joining us. And Rebecca, Do you really not know who Mulder and Scully are?   Rebecca Schwartz  33:44 Are they superheroes?   Dan Seguin  33:46 Oh god. See ya folks!