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Feb 28, 2022 • 35min

Renewable Energy’s Role in Net Zero with Robert Hornung

The push to “electrify'' everything as a way to meet Canada’s net-zero goals is strong, but is it really the answer to everything? Should we start looking towards energy efficiency ahead of electrification? Robert Hornung, President and CEO of Canadian Renewable Energy Association, joins this episode of thinkenergy to discuss the benefits of using solar and wind energy to help decarbonize the electricity grid. He also enlightens us on how investing in renewable energy has the potential for significant job creation across Canada, and what a national clean electricity standard could look like.     Related links LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-hornung-3220145b/?originalSubdomain=ca https://renewablesassociation.ca/team/   --- To subscribe using Apple Podcasts:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405   To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl   To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com/ --- Subscribe so you don't miss a video: https://www.youtube.com/user/hydroottawalimited   Check out our cool pics on https://www.instagram.com/hydroottawa   More to Learn on https://www.facebook.com/thinkenergypod   Keep up with the Tweets at https://twitter.com/thinkenergypod Transcript:   Dan Seguin  00:06 This is think energy, the podcast that helps you better understand the fast changing world of energy through conversations with game changers, industry leaders, and influencers. So join me, Dan Seguin, and my co-host, Rebecca Schwartz, as we explore both traditional and unconventional facets of the energy industry. Hey, everyone, welcome back.   Rebecca Schwartz  00:32 On today's show, we're going to talk about renewables and the role that they play in reaching Canada's Net Zero targets.   Dan Seguin  00:39 The journey to net zero is one that will take us down a long and winding road with plenty of bumps, potholes, twists, and turns. But what about the scale and speed at which we should go? A recent report says that Canada is currently not on track to meet its targets.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:01 But the most pressing target is the one that Canada has set to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 40 to 45%, below 2005 levels all by 2030. But what's needed to accelerate electricity, decarbonisation and increase production for a cleaner national electricity grid? Is it renewables like wind, solar and energy storage?   Dan Seguin  01:25 Now, Canada's electricity system, like most systems around the world, was designed as a one way street, to generate, transmit, and deliver electricity to consumers. That's it. But as technology evolved, so has the expectations of Canadians and the demand to update our electricity grid to be two way interactive system. This includes supporting electric vehicles, energy storage, smart grid technologies, smart home technologies, home generation, and a host of other innovations. Rebecca, did you know that there is now a push to electrify everything? Virtually the entire auto industry has moved its investments in research and development to electric vehicles. Climate plans in cities, provinces, and countries are calling for radically improved energy-efficiency in buildings and the use of electric heat pumps to heat them. That could mean that we'll need twice as much electricity by 2050 as we do today. To get there, we need to expand our renewable fleet - tenfold.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:44 Via its report entitled Powering Canada's Journey to Net Zero. The Canadian Renewable Energy Association has issued a wake up call - a call to action for governments, utilities, regulators, electricity system operators and industry. To get Canada started on the path to meeting its commitment to net zero by 2015. Canada's electricity grid is the root directory of the Canadian economy, it will be very hard for other sectors to reach net zero if the electricity they use produces carbon emissions.   Dan Seguin  03:19 So here'stoday's big question: Is solar, wind and energy storage, the most economical way to decarbonize the electricity grid, and help Canada reach its netzero goals. And to help steer this conversation and a clear path. We've invited Robert Hornung, the president and CEO at Canadian Renewable Energy Association. His association engages Canadians to enable the responsible and sustainable deployment of wind energy, solar energy, and energy storage solutions to power Canada's energy future. According to Robert, there is no greater threat to our planet than climate change. Renewable energy is part of the solution. And it is also a great growth opportunity for Canada's green economy future.   Rebecca Schwartz  04:18 Robert, thank you so much for joining us today. I guess we'll just jump right in with our first question about your vision document Powering Canada's Journey to Net Zero, which talks about a wake up call - an urgent call to action for governments, utilities, regulators and the electricity industry? Wondering if you can unpack this for me and for our listeners?   Robert Hornung  04:41 Certainly. I mean, we produce this vision document because of, frankly the threat that we all face because of climate change and trying to identify and quantify the role of wind energy, solar energy and energy storage and helping us to address that challenge. And I mean, the challenges is a significant one. I meam, Canada has made a commitment now to move to net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. So essentially 100% reduction in emissions from today. And between 2005 and 2019, emissions only fell by 1%. So our vision speak about an urgent call to action. Because it's clear, we need to dramatically accelerate the scale and the speed of our efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, if we're going to have any hope at all of meeting those targets. And from our perspective, it's well understood that we're going to need a significant increase in the use of wind, solar and energy storage if those targets are to be achieved.   Dan Seguin  05:41 Okay, Robert. You've said that wind energy, solar energy and energy storage will be at the core of Canada's energy transition, but needs to expand tenfold? What makes renewables at scalable solutions to meet the electricity production required by 2050?   Robert Hornung  06:06 Well, I think first off, we have to sort of look to some of the research that's been done different studies that looked at what are the pathways to get to net zero greenhouse gas emissions? We just said it's an enormous challenge, how do we get there. And those studies consistently show that to get to net zero, you have to first and foremost decarbonize electricity production, so that you're not producing greenhouse gas emissions from electricity anymore. And then you have to expand that electricity production, because you're gonna want to use that electricity to substitute for fossil fuels in areas like transportation and, and buildings and an industry. Now, another thing that those studies consistently show is that the majority of that new electricity that we're going to need is going to come from wind and solar. And why is that? The simple reason is because wind and solar are the lowest cost options for new electricity production in our world today. And our vision developed an illustrative scenario, which is consistent with the findings of these netzero studies, which sort of assumes we're going to need to double electricity production, we assume that two thirds of that new electricity production is going to come from wind and solar. And that leads us to the calculation then. That that means you have to expand wind and solar has to be in Canada tenfold in the next 30 years. And that's why it's an urgent call to action. That's a mammoth task. It's achievable. But we have to get started now.   Rebecca Schwartz  07:31 Now at the top of your to do list for Canada, you start with the decarbonisation of our country's electricity production by the year 2035. Could you expand on why you feel this is critical to the 2015 zero timeline?   Robert Hornung  07:45 Yeah, sure. And I should start by noting that Canada has actually made a commitment to move to a netzero electricity grid by 2035. And that's consistent with guidance that's been provided by the International Energy Agency, which in looking at pathways to netzero concluded that if industrialized countries are going to get there by 2050, they need to decarbonize grids by 2035. And why is that? Well, it's because at the end of the day, when we're talking about climate change, we're worried about getting to net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. Yes. But we're also worried about the cumulative emissions that are going to be produced between now and 2050. It makes a big difference if we're steadily reducing, as opposed to just dropping off at the very end. And in that context, if you recognize the importance of electrification, in terms of moving to net zero, the sooner we have a clean decarbonized electricity grid, the sooner we can benefit from the actions taken to electrify transportation or to electrify buildings, and we can maximize the emission reductions associated with that. So that's really what the driver is to say, do that now because it pays off in multiple ways, because we also ended up being able to reduce emissions and other sectors more quickly as a result.   Rebecca Schwartz  09:02 Now, just a quick follow up - you know, in the report that Canada is not on track yet, and that there's little discussion about scale and speed. What needs to happen ASAP, so we don't fall behind.   Robert Hornung  09:15 Yeah, I mean, I think I'll just be first maybe a little bit about that scale, speed and scale. You know, we talked earlier about needing to grow wind and solar tenfold in the next 30 years. What does that mean? So we've looked at that, and we said, well, that means that for the next 30 years, every year, we would have to build wind and solar out at a rate that's eight times faster than the average rate we've been building it out over the last five years. And the later we get started, the more we have to build after that, and it becomes even more challenging going forward. So there's a real driver and a real need to move quickly and get started on this process. And so as we mentioned earlier, so we've identified a to do list terms of work we need to do to enable that. And it has a number of different factors. We need to look at putting in place foundational policies that sends signals to investors about the direction we're going in and provides them with confidence that they can proceed with investments. We need to reform electricity market structures and regulatory frameworks to adapt for the introduction of significantly more renewables in the grid. We need to build new electricity infrastructure, if we're doubling the size of the electricity grid, we need new infrastructure. We also need to accelerate our efforts towards electrification so that there's demand for this renewable electricity when you're putting it out into the grid. And finally, we need to put in place processes that actually allow us to procure that new renewable electricity going forward. In Canada, we have massive, untapped wind and solar energy resources. So it's not a question of do we have the resource we do? It's, can we capitalize on it and mobilize quickly enough to be able to take advantage of it?   Dan Seguin  11:03 That's a great segue. In your view, how can we decarbonize electricity to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in Canada's transportation, buildings, and industry sector?   Robert Hornung  11:16 I mean, I think we're already starting to see some real evidence of this transition occurring, although we're at an early stage. So in the transportation sector, everyone's aware we're moving towards a world dominated by electric vehicles in the future, so you see it in the choices made by auto manufacturers, consumers, etc. Going forward. But it's really more about electric mobility. You also see a growing number of e-bikes, for example, going forward. We see increasing investments in the electrification of public transportation. So, there's a real drive there in terms of the transportation sector. In terms of buildings, heat pumps, are going to be critical as a technology that allows us to reduce our reliance on natural gas for heating purposes going forward. And within industry, within heavy industry, we already see announcements being made from steel producers who are switching to electric arc furnaces, the aluminum smelters, that are starting to electrify. And across all of those areas, electrification is not the answer for everything. There are applications where electricity is not going to be the solution. But for many of those applications, you can actually use clean electricity to produce hydrogen, green hydrogen, if it's produced from renewable electricity. And that green hydrogen can then be used to support things like freight transportation, or long distance transportation, or other industrial processes. So, electricity really will have a central role to play. And again, we're starting to see that transition occur. But again, we have to accelerate those efforts, extremely if we're if we're going to achieve our targets.   Dan Seguin  12:53 Okay. Now, Robert, can you expand as to why it's so critical to rethink Canada's electricity infrastructure investments, and work to minimize the cost to expand electricity production? What is the low cost advantage that renewables have?   Robert Hornung  13:13 Well, I think, you know, I think we have to start from a recognition that when we're talking about doubling electricity supply, we're going to need more infrastructure to move that electricity around. But we also know that electricity infrastructure, like transmission is expensive. It takes a long time to build. It's complicated in terms of getting all the approvals you're going to need and stuff to do that. And so our first priority actually has to be to try and use our existing infrastructure more efficiently. And in that sense, right now we design our transmission system so that it's able to serve us when we have our highest electricity demand. So, at peak times that it can do that. We're only at peak times for a small amount of time, which means most of the time our transmission system is actually underutilized. So, how do we increase the efficiency with which we use that? That's where we can use a whole range of technologies, distributed energy resources, energy storage, that can help us to shift that peak time, such that we're able to use that transmission resource more fully and more consistently going forward. And we call that non-wires alternatives, in terms of looking at options instead of building up and transmission. And that's going to be really important going forward simply because as we look at the scale of the transformation we need to move towards netzero. We want to do everything we can to reduce costs to go forward and do that. And those distributed energy resources can play a really important role in helping us to reduce those infrastructure costs.   Rebecca Schwartz  14:51 So Robert, how can Canada modernize its electricity, markets and regulatory structures to enable the lowest cost pathway to grid decarbonisation and expansion?   Robert Hornung  15:02 So I think the first thing we have to recognize is that our electricity markets and our and the regulatory structures in the electricity system and regulatory frameworks are really designed for the electricity system of today and of the past. And the electricity system of the future is going to be different than the one of today. And it's going to be different because we have a whole range of disruptive technologies entering the electricity sector, just as we've seen in many other sectors across the economy. And those disruptive technologies are fundamentally transforming our electricity system. We're shifting away from a system which used to be a one-way system where you had a big generators and power over transmission line to a user to a system now where it's a two way system, where users also generate electricity. And so electricity is flowing back and forth across the system. And our regulatory frameworks weren't designed with that in mind. And what we find now is that although these the introduction of these new disruptive technologies, whether it's solar energy storage, or smart grid technologies. The introduction of these different technologies introduces more complexity into the system, but it also increases our options and gives us a much broader range of tools, which we can use to provide the services that we need to have to ensure an efficient and reliable grid. And so when we look forward at how we need to reform electricity markets,and regulatory frameworks in the future, we want to do is we want to capitalize on that, on those new disruptive technologies. And want to remove barriers to their introduction, we want to ensure that they have the opportunity to participate in the electricity system. And then we also want to ensure that we're setting up the system so that there is competition to provide services, and that at the end of the day, you know, if we have five different kinds of technologies from provider liability service, that's great! Let's choose the lowest cost one and move forward. And so it's really a tremendous benefit that we're seeing here. And again, a lot of disruptive technologies we've seen in other sectors are doing the same sort of thing, right. They're providing an opportunity to reduce costs and be more efficient going forward. Same things happening with electricity. And in fact, I would argue that in the electricity sector, you know, our biggest challenge, in some ways is not the technology challenge, in terms of how we can decarbonize the grid and move forward. It's the regulatory challenge and the market framework. And that, in that we have technologies that we can't fully implement, deploy and utilize at this point in time, and that's what we need to adjust.   Dan Seguin  17:43 Now, Robert, you've mentioned that Canada's wind, solar and energy storage industries are up for the challenge, and are eager to start building and delivering significant new capacity required to enable Canada to achieve its netzero goals. What's the next step to kick start this?   Robert Hornung  18:04 Well, I mean, the true answer is there's no single next step. There's a whole series of next steps, right. In terms of moving forward as we outlined in order to do this, but I think a key fundamental one, is putting in place the sort of cornerstone policies, I would call them. The ones that send signals into the marketplace and to investors that say, this is the direction we're moving, you can count on the fact that we're moving in this direction, and therefore you can make investment decisions based on that. And two examples of that: So one is the concept of the clean electricity standard, decarbonizing the grid by 2035. If there's a requirement in place, a legal requirement that the electricity grid is gonna have to be decarbonized by 2035, that sends a very clear signal to investors, we better find the lowest cost way to do that, and you start exploring those options. Carbon pricing is another one. And we have in Canada, we do have a carbon price in place, we've got a direction sort of outlined in terms of where that price is going to 2030. It would be useful to have a longer term perspective on that for investors. And the other thing that's critical is we need to make sure that that carbon price is actually having an impact on decision. So in the electricity sector, specifically, the way the carbon price framework is designed federally, existing natural gas facilities are essentially fully sheltered from the carbon price. So they really have no incentive from the carbon price to actually go and seek greater efficiencies or to consider alternatives. And so we need to ensure I think, within the electricity sector, that if we have a carbon price that everything is exposed to it, and you're getting that signal and that we have clarity as to how that signal is changing over time. I think if we have those fundamental policies in place, then that provides an incentive for people to start thinking about building infrastructure people to start thinking about how we reform regulartory frameworks, those foundational policies sort of get the ball rolling.   Rebecca Schwartz  20:04 Okay, great. So what does a national clean electricity standard even look like? And why is it so important? And can you talk a little bit to some of the biggest barriers for collaboration?   Robert Hornung  20:16 Yeah, I mean it's fundamentally, I guess, at its heart, it's a simple tool. It's setting a standard for electricity generators as to how much greenhouse gas emissions they can emit. And I'm sure that standard will be set in terms of how many, you know how many greenhouse gas emissions you emit per kilowatt hour, megawatt hour of electricity produced, and presumably, it will be designed so that number declines steadily and approaches zero by the time we get to 2035. So, you know, that's the federal government can put in place a standard like that, and it's going to apply across the country. How that's actually implemented, will vary everywhere. Every province has a unique electricity grid, unique set of electricity generation today, a unique set of options for future electricity generation. So the pathway to get to net zero in the electricity grid is going to differ from province to province. We do know that if provinces do more to collaborate, if provinces do more to interconnect their electricity grids, it will provide each of them with more options in terms of trying to move towards net zero. And generally more options means more flexibility and ways to reduce cost. So collaboration in that sense, is quite important in terms of, again, trying to seek out the lowest cost opportunities to meet the objectives that we're setting.   Dan Seguin  21:47 Okay, you touched on this earlier growth. Let's now look at the potential for growth. And are distributed energy resources poised to provide increased opportunities for homeowners and small businesses to demand on site, renewable energy generation. Any examples you could share with us?   22:10 Yeah, well, I mean, to start, I would say that, yes, there's significant potential. I would say actually enormous potential for growth in terms of the distributed energy resources going forward. And I think we see that in terms of the growing number of,businesses and industries that are looking at self generation as an option for electricity going forward. And that's being driven by multiple drivers, it could be driven by environmental commitments, in terms of, you know, corporate commitments to reduce greenhouse gas emissions going forward. It can be driven by economic factors, people looking to avoid a grid electricity costs by sort of producing their own electricity going forward. It could be driven by a desire to increase resiliency, in the event of sort of issues with the grid, that you're still have power and are able to move forward. So I think we see a growing number of companies sort of exploring and seeking out those options. And I think you'll also see a growing number of jurisdictions actually trying to facilitate that going forward. For example, Alberta, earlier this year, issued a program to provide some incentives for businesses to adopt sort of on site solar. They were fully utilized within, I think ,the first three months. There was tremendous demand for them going forward. So I don't think it's a question of if we're going to see distributed energy resources play a significant role. I think it's a question of when we're going to see. And I think the when comes back to these other questions that we talked about. When are we able to remove some of the regulatory barriers that prevent either the deployment of these technologies or the ability to sort of receive economic value for the services those technologies provide to the grid? I think it's also going to require, however, before we can expand and in a large way.  For electricity system operators, it's going to be critical that they have a clear understanding and a sense of what is happening with those distributed energy resources. So, you know, the electricity grid operator has one of the toughest challenges of all trying to ensure that supply and demand is matched all the time and supply and demand are both changing all the time. And if there's a set of generation out there that you don't actually have a vision of and you don't know if it's going up and up, or anything like that, that's a problem. And we need to do some significant infrastructure investment to ensure that electricity system operators have insight into what's actually happening at the distribution level. And also the ability, potentially, to manage what's happening at the at the distribution level. I mean, smart grid technologies, again, are giving us a tremendous capability to say, you know, examples, let's reduce electricity demand by turning everybody's thermostat down by half a degree, or something like that. Those sorts of things. So there's, there's, again, ensuring we've got that infrastructure in place that allows that to take place is going to be critical. But I think if we remove those sorts of barriers and put in place those enablers, you'll see fantastic growth, I think in the sector.   Rebecca Schwartz  22:27 Now, as solar storage and wind power come closest to meeting three key energy, consumer priorities - those being:cost, effectiveness, decarbonisation and reliability- What role will they play with micro grids and self sufficiency? And what's the ultimate renewable energy future that you envision?   Robert Hornung  26:01 I think we're going to see significant growth in these technologies at both the utility scale. So large wind farms, solar farms, and also on the distributed side. And that also includes then within microgrids, and things like that as well. But even though these technologies are going to be core and central, in terms of enabling us to move to net zero, it is part of a broader package. You know, when we're talking about moving to net zero, frankly, the first thing we should be talking about is energy efficiency. And we should be working to ensure that we minimize the amount of energy that we actually need in the first place. Then once we've done that, we think okay, well, then let's use the lowest cost, non emitting energy we can. And that's where wind and solar are going to come in and play a significant role in that regard. But then, again, you're going to say, 'okay, well, how are we going to manage that?' Well, we'll need other technologies like the smart grid technologies that allow us to effectively integrate wind and solar and ensure reliability of the grid going forward, because wind and solar are variable sources of generation. They add, again, some more complexity for system operators in terms of how we do this. And we need technologies in place that can help to facilitate that. So you know, we've talked already about the fact that the future electricity system is going to look pretty different from the electricity system of today. But at the end of the day, I guess in terms of a vision of it, I think renewables will be at the heart of that system for for two reasons. One is the scalability of the technologies themselves. You can actually have a single wind turbine, or a single solar panel, or a giant wind farm or solar farm, so they can be applied in all of these different applications. Their cost - So we've seen a 90% decline in the cost of solar. In the last decade, we've seen a 70% decline in the cost of wind in the last decade. It's not going to continue down at that rate going forward, we do expect to see some more cost declines. But there's absolutely no one out there who will say there's going to be something cheaper that comes along as we move towards 2050. And that's why it's going to again, play a pretty central role in terms of us moving forward. So, I as I said before, I think these technologies will be the core and the heart of the new electricity system going forward. But they aren't the whole story. We still need those technologies to partner with other technologies to enable and ensure that we're providing an electricity system that's reliable, and affordable and clean.   Dan Seguin  28:37 Okay, now, let's tackle something we haven't covered yet. How about we take a look at job creation? Robert, with these investments in wind, energy, solar energy and energy storage, create significant employment opportunities in Canada? Where do you foresee the biggest gains?   Robert Hornung  28:59 Yeah, when we did our mini vision document, or sorry, our vision document, vision 2050 document, we determined that if you were to increase wind and solar energy production tenfold over the next 30 years, that would create about 28,000 direct and indirect person years of employment annually. So, it's over 800,000 over the over the 30 year period. Now, many of those jobs are in the construction of facilities. So they're not permanent jobs, their jobs that are associated in construction. You do also create a significant number of jobs in operation of those facilities going forward. And again, you know, the job creation potential of the technology space differs a little bit by application as well. Where you're going to see the most jobs created, at least on a per megawatt basis, we'll be with distributed solar. And some studies done recently that have argued that for every megawatt of distributed solar generation that you put in place, you create about 35% person years of employment, so there is significant job creation potential associated with these technologies. We also have, as a country, some significant opportunities associated with these technologies as well. We're starting from pretty strong place globally, more than 80% of Canada's electricity is already non emitting. So we've got a good head start on much of the rest of the world, if we can move quickly to get to 100%. Non emitting, we'll have gained knowledge and expertise that will be sought around the world, because everybody's gonna have to move in this direction. The other thing is that our nearest neighbor, the United States, is going to be challenged to move to net zero, their electricity grid is much more carbon intensive than ours. And the export of clean Canadian electricity could also play a very significant role in helping the United States to meet its goals and objectives. So there are economic opportunities associated with that as well. So really, we've got a tremendous resource that's untapped for the most part across the country. One of the great things about wind and solar is that it's actually available in every part of the country. So not restricted to a certain province. So there are opportunities really across the country for economic growth and development. And because these are decentralized technologies, these opportunities will also play out at the level of communities across the country. And, you know, we've see a growing number of municipalities and communities with an interest in being partners in renewable energy projects going forward in seeing these projects, built to meet their own objectives, but also to secure the economic benefits associated with those projects. So it's a really tremendous opportunity.   Rebecca Schwartz  31:42 All right, Robert, how about we close off with some rapid fire questions? Are you ready? All right. Now, Robert, what's your favorite word?   Rebecca Schwartz  31:54 Chocolate? Because it's a word that always makes me smile.   Rebecca Schwartz  31:57 What is one thing you can't live without?   Robert Hornung  31:59 My family. It's actually the most important thing in my life, ao I would say that.   Robert Hornung  32:03 What's something that challenges you?   Robert Hornung  32:04 I would say something, which I guess probably most people would say is that it's finding the balance between competing priorities, it's a challenge everyday.   Rebecca Schwartz  32:15 Okay, now, if you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Robert Hornung  32:19 The ability to heal people.   Rebecca Schwartz  32:21 And if you could turn back time, talk to your 18 year old self? What would you tell them?   Robert Hornung  32:26 Don't be stressed about what you're doing when you're 30. Because you're inevitably going to get it wrong, and have faith that you're going to find your path. And that it's going to be informed by a bunch of things you haven't even thought of yet.   Rebecca Schwartz  32:42 Okay, this is the last one. What is exciting you about the renewable energy industry right now?   Robert Hornung  32:48 The potential! I mean, its potential is enormous. And, but, you know, it's, it really does require us to get started now, to sort of capitalize on that. And so, you know, one of the things in our in our vision document, you know, we sort of conclude by saying that the time to act is now and we need to act together. And that's true, whether it's between federal and provincial governments, provincial and municipal governments, different technologies. We've got a massive challenge in front of us. We've got all the reasons in the world to succeed and meeting that challenge. And we need to get started yesterday.   Dan Seguin  33:29 Well, Robert, this is it. We've reached the end of another episode of the thick energy podcast. If our listeners wanted to learn more about you, and your organization, how can they connect.   Robert Hornung  33:41 So you can visit our website, which is renewablesassociation.ca. And on that website, you'll also be able to download a copy of our vision document and see, you know, sort of what our thoughts are on on the role that wind, solar and energy storage are going to play in helping Canada to move to net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. Dan Seguin  34:05 Cool. Again, thank you for joining us today. I hope you had a lot of fun.   Robert Hornung  34:10 That was fun. Thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity.   Dan Seguin  34:14 Thanks for tuning in for another episode of the thinkenergy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review whereever you're listening. And to find out more about today's guests or previous episodes, visit thinkenergypodcast.com I hope you'll join us again next time as we spark even more conversations about the energy of tomorrow.    
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Feb 14, 2022 • 59min

Our Moon Shot To Be Net Zero by 2030

Ottawa’s energy ecosystem is unique, with long-standing localized and green generation. In fact, did you know Hydro Ottawa is the largest municipally-owned producer of clean, renewable energy in Canada? Bryce Conrad, Hydro Ottawa President and CEO, joins Dan and Rebecca to discuss the company’s commitment to making its entire operations net zero by 2030. Related links LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryce-conrad-2ab1b352/ https://hydroottawa.com Check out our new Think Energy Podcast website To subscribe using Apple Podcasts To subscribe using Spotify: To subscribe on Libsyn: --- Subscribe so you don't miss a video: YouTube Podcast Library Keep up with the Tweets at Think Energy Twitter Check out our cool pics on Instagram More to Learn on Facebook Transcript:   Dan Seguin  00:06 This is the energy. The podcast that helps you better understand the fast changing world of energy through conversations with game changers, industry leaders, and influencers. So join me, Dan Seguin, and my co host, Rebecca Schwartz, as we explore both traditional and unconventional facets of the energy industry.   Dan Seguin  00:30 Hey, everyone, welcome back.   Rebecca Schwartz  00:32 To refresh our listeners, or in case they missed it in December, our organization Hydro Ottawa announced that it will make its entire operations net zero by the time 2030 rolls around. And by my calculations, that's only eight years away. In order to achieve net zero, you have to remove as much greenhouse gas emissions or more than you're currently putting into the atmosphere.   Dan Seguin  00:54 Now, to put it into further perspective, Ottawa's electricity grid stretches 1100 square kilometers. It's essentially Ottawa's largest machine. Add to that our fleet of bucket trucks and other vehicles, various work centers across the city and more than 700 employees, you start to realize that this is no small endeavor.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:23 Our President and CEO likes to call it our moonshot after the Apollo 11 mission where we sent a man to the moon in the 1960s.   Dan Seguin  01:31 Actually, the timeline to achieve both is pretty similar. President Kennedy announced his ambitious goal to Congress in 1961. By 1969, a man was on the surface of the moon. In those short, eight years, it must have seemed impossible to many.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:54 While Canada's putting as much pollution into the atmosphere, unfortunately, as it did a generation ago- 730 million tons to be exact. Canada's electricity industry is one of the cleanest in the world. In fact, 80% of the electricity in Canada comes from non emitting resources.   Dan Seguin  02:11 And Ontario's electricity sector is even more impressive. With 94% of its electricity we produce completely free of greenhouse gas emissions, some experts say that fully decarbonizing the electricity industry will be the key climate change solution for Canada.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:31 Here's today's big question. What will it take to get Hydro Ottawa to net zero by 2030? And what inspired the decision to be the first municipally owned utility in Canada to do it? We've been building an impressive resume here at Hydro Ottawa when it comes to environmental sustainability. Most recently, we even won the Canadian Electricity Association's Sustainability Electricity Company Designation in 2021. But we'll get into all of that with our special guest later today.   Dan Seguin  02:59 Bryce Conrad has been the President and CEO of Hydro Ottawa since 2011. Under his leadership, Hydro Ottawa has become one of the most innovative utilities in Canada, regularly winning awards and accolades for its customer oriented services and its commitment to environmental sustainability. It is the largest municipally owned producer of clean, renewable energy in Ontario. He's also my boss, Bryce, welcome to the show. Now Hydro Ottawa recently made a net zero by 2030 commitment, and there's a lot of momentum in that direction in corporate Canada. Generally, what's your view on its importance? What makes for truly credible and meaningful net zero commitment?   Bryce Conrad  03:53 Collectively, we, as a society, have been talking about this for, quite frankly, too long. I mean, when I did this presentation to the board, any reference back to Kyoto and the Kyoto protocols, and then Paris, Montreal, I mean, every four or five years, they get around to having another meeting and collectively agreed to do something, but never do anything. So there's a whole lot of talk and nothing else much. So, from our perspective, as a company, it's time to start taking responsibility for our own house, and the impact that we have collectively on our own environments. That we can and will do better, that we can be part of the solution. And, I'd say this, as someone who spent time in the federal government, who's worked 15 years working in federal provincial relations. I mean, the answer to climate change is not going to come from some magical central government telling us what to do or what not to do. It's not going to come from a provincial government. The solutions are going to be local, they're going to come from the ground up, and they're going to be you and me doing the right thing each and every day. Changing our own behavior, recognizing that the behavior, that the path that we're on today is unsustainable, and being willing to make those changes. I love the idea that there's still some expectation that there is going to be some sort of savior that's going to come in and fix everything for us. And if you look at Jeff Bezos, you look at Elon Musk, I mean, the two wealthiest men in the world and they're trying to get off the planet faster than they can stay on the planet. So, by building rocket ships and stuff, so the answer is not there. What I do like about this time, what I do think is different this time, is, for the first time, at least from my perception, the first time is that it's not simply going to be the government's making commitments. You're actually starting to see the private sector come to the table with money and solutions. When you see people like Larry Fink, and you see OMERS, in the big pension funds, and the big banks, the big insurance companies - When you start seeing these massive multibillion dollar business, stepping up to the table and saying, we're gonna put our money where our mouth is, and we're gonna start to change behavior. That's kind of special. That's the secret sauce, it's necessary to solve this problem. And the perfect example, and I've used this before, and I'll use it again, is the largest public sector pension fund in the world, is a Norwegian pension fund, which effectively is the Canada Pension Fund for Norwegians. And they've got 1.6 $1.8 trillion under management. And the source of that funds, the genesis of that fund was essentially selling the offshore oil rights for Norwegian oil development in the North Sea. And now they're saying we no longer will invest in companies that produce fossil fuel. So, isn't it ironic that a company that a pension fund, the largest in the world, that's sourced began via fossil fuel money is now turning their attention to green technologies? That's new. That's different. That's something we haven't seen before.   Dan Seguin  07:49 Okay, here's a follow up question. Can you maybe expand on what you mean, when you say net zero is our 'moonshot'? What is behind the comparison of the Apollo 11 mission that inspired you? So on YouTube, you can go back and dial up all these old speeches and watch them and watch them anew. But look, if you go back to JFK in 1961, so he does this speech before for the joint House and Senate. And, it's not a long speech. So I'd encourage everyone to go watch it. There's, it's about a minute long, the clip that that's relevant anyway. And in that speech, he says, we are going to go to the moon before the end of the decade. So he's doing this in '61. Obviously, they went to the moon 69. So as part of that, he does something that people don't do enough of these days, right, he literally says - We're going to go to the moon. So that's our objective. And I have no idea how we're going to get there. I'm paraphrasing, obviously, I have no idea how we're going to get there, the technology doesn't exist, the fuel doesn't exist, the booster rocket technology doesn't exist. And that kind of the capsule necessary to get someone to and from the moon doesn't exist today. So he's making this bold announcement without having,  and then acknowledging that he doesn't know how they're going to do it. And, and I thought that's just so, quite frankly, refreshing in this day and age where everything is kind of pre packaged, right. Like, we know what we're going to do this next two years, but we already know that we've got it in the bag, and here's how it's going to be done. I like the idea of setting the big, hairy, audacious goal for the company and saying, I've said this to the management team. I have no clue how we're gonna get there. I don't know. Like, I I know what we need to start doing. But I don't know what the answer is. But I work with some of the smartest people in the game and I know that if they're empowered to do this, and we put our minds to this, we will do this. Like, that's what Kennedy counted on '61. And that's lo and behold what happened. So, when I liken it to the moonshot, it's just that- it's the it's the big, hairy, audacious goal, without any real clear roadmap as to how to accomplish that goal. And I think quite frankly, that's what served us best is when we don't necessarily have the answers, we have to make up. We have to figure our way through this stuff. And I see that every day of the company, right? If you look back at what we how we handle the tornadoes, if you look back at the way we handle the floods, if you look at the way we handle our system. Yeah, there's a lot of prescriptive stuff. Yes, there's a lot of this is how we do things. But there are a lot of days we throw out the rulebook, you throw out the manual, and you have to figure your way forward. And that's when this company is at its best. So, that's the that's the moonshot.   Rebecca Schwartz  10:53 Now, how concerned are you about climate change and environmental damage? What does the energy transition mean for Hydro Ottawa as it exists today, and for you personally, as we look to the future?   Bryce Conrad  11:05  So let's just state categorically that climate change is real. As I sit here, today, it's like minus 27,000 degrees outside. People go 'oh if it is global warming why is it so damn cold', and of course, you just want to smack people that say things like that. But, God's honest truth is climate change is not about the day to day weather, it's about weather patterns. It's about how, in the past, we've had wind storms and ice storms, we've had eight tornadoes, including one in downtown to Nepean. We've had a one in 100 year flood, followed by a one in 1000 year flood. We've had heat waves that have stretched and taxed our system. And all of this is just like, quite frankly, within the past five years. So that's what climate change means. It means unpredictable, changing, dramatically changing weather patterns. And if you run a utility, like I do, or like we do,you don't like that. You know, our infrastructure is built to withstand X. It's not built to withstand x plus 30%, or x plus 50%. So, you know, when a windstorm comes through, you know, the infrastructure is ready to sustain winds up to 90 miles an hour or something like that? Well, you know, we all saw what happened when tornadoes came through, you know, 130 miles, or 160 miles an hour, right? Those poles snap like twigs. That's what climate change means. So, you know, it's terrifying. It's absolutely terrifying. And you know, it's something that we have to start to build into our plans as to how do we build better in the future? So are we building our infrastructure to withstand 90 mile an hour winds? Are we building them to withstand 150 mile an hour winds? Well, there's a cost difference to that. Obviously, the answer is, yeah, we've got to do a better job of building stronger, more resilient infrastructure. If you saw during the floods, our Chaudiere facility, our generating asset, Chaudiere Falls. You know, you were seeing for the first time in history, all 50 of the gates of the ring dam were open. I mean, and there was more, I think it was two Olympic swimming pools passing through the gates every second. The waterfall, the water, the speed, and the waterfall was faster than the Niagara Falls, like, I mean, these are things that shouldn't be happening in downtown Ottawa, but have happened, you know, three times since I've been here. And that's 10 years. So if anyone wants to have a debate about whether or not climate change is real, call me up. Let's have that conversation. Because it's, it's very real, and it's going to dramatically impact our future. In terms of the energy transition, I think I talked a bit about it. But, you know, when we bottomed out, and look at what our future looks like, 50 years from now, our infrastructure looks fundamentally different than it does today. It's in fundamentally different places than it is today. You know, we're gonna rely upon artificial intelligence, machine learning. You know, each and every one of those, like, everything will be censored up. So, you know, the idea is that, as opposed to us rolling a truck to fix something that's broken or down, we can sort of simply reroute it from the control center. So yes, we still have to get out there and fix what's broken but for you, the customer of Hydro Ottawa, you actually won't notice the impact because the power will have switched over to another source instantaneously. That's the goal. I think, you know, you'll see more and more people, and I've been telling people this for 10 years, right? The day in and the age of, you know, my grandmother who used to sort of wait patiently in the mailbox for the bill to come in so she could open it up that day, write a check, and put it back in the mailbox the next day. Those days are gone. And those people are gone. The people that are our customers today, they want to interact, they want more, they want to understand how they can measure utility, they want to understand how they can manage their energy consumption. Particularly if you start to put the onus on them with respect to climate change and what they're doing. So they're going to want to know, like, you know, do I plug my electric car in? If I plug it in? Now? You know, do I wait and charge it between two and 4am? Or do I charge it now? You know, can I charge my house with my car, you know, they're going to be part of this and will be part of the solution. But they're also gonna have expectations of us as a provider to be transparent, authentic, reliable, managing the costs. So that energy transition is going to be huge for us. And it's only going to get more complicated. And I haven't even talked about the downside, right? I mean, the more you open the kimono, and you allow the customers to sort of engage with you directly, the more opportunity you're giving for nefarious actors to sort of engage in the things that we don't want to be happening, things like cybersecurity.   Dan Seguin  16:54 Okay, let's talk energy now, Bryce. We've got an interesting energy ecosystem here in Ottawa with long standing localized and green generation. We had distributed energy resources before it was a thing. Is there a model here that can be applied more broadly?   Bryce Conrad  17:13 Yeah, you know what, so I always like to think that Hydro Ottawa was at the cutting edge of these sorts of things. So, we were doing distributed energy resources before for the term for it. We were cool before we knew it was cool. So short answer, yeah, we've got massive generating assets in our backyard, which theoretically, can be used as distributed energy resources. As we go forward, my expectation is that. And I'd be the first to admit that having Chaudiere and the big generating assets is a massive advantage for the company. But, where we haven't done so well with our customers is with respect to some of the other DER activity. Like, the local homeowner that wants to put up solar, solar panels and stuff like that. And the God's honest truth is, those little installations are a real pain. They're a pain to manage. They're all kind of one-offs. Every one of them is individualized, everyone requires a lot of time and attention. But that's not the right answer. The right answer is we should be treating these things as gifts. We should be doing everything in our power to support them and roll them out even further. So, my expectation is over the course of the next 5-10 years, you're going to see us serve as a catalyst role for further DERs in the community. So that's the first one I would say is if you're waiting to install solar panels, or you need to - you want t- - give us a call, we're here to help you support it. But one of the projects that I think stands out is kind of unique, certainly in Canada, and one that we're particularly proud of, just given the role we played, is down at the Zibi community. Which is, for those who don't know, sort of, well, it's on an island. No man's land between the two provinces. So half of it is in Quebec, the other half is in Ontario. Andthe developer down there, kudos to them. They are partners in dream properties, I guess, four or five years ago, six years ago with the idea of using these developments, which is 34 acres on the waterfront and turning it into a one planet, one world kind of community where it's zero carbon. You know, they could have just asked us to run pipe or run power lines, but we thought, here's an opportunity for us to get in on the ground and see how this actually works. So it's up, it's running, condos are being built for people living there today. There's the heat and cooling - the heat coming from effluent discharge under the Kruger paper plant over on the Gatineau side. So. essentially this is a waste product that's being pumped back into the pipes so we can heat the homes. Conversely, in the summer they're using the Ottawa River to sort of cool it. And again, it's it's a real, full scale model of what a zero carbon energy system would look like. And there's no reason you can't take that same model and apply it on a broader scale and even broader scale. Which is something that we're keen to replicate where, if and when we get the opportunity, but it's truly unique and we're quite proud of it. Again, we got in on the ground floor and said, this is something that we're interested in, so how can we help you. And full credit to the development team, they saw the opportunity to work with us and gave us an opportunity.   Dan Seguin  21:22 Now, a lot of focus is on national targets. But here in Ottawa, we see a central role for ourselves in working with the city, customers, and other stakeholders to help drive down emissions. How much of climate action needs to be local? How important do you see Hydro Ottawa's role being to affect change?   Bryce Conrad  21:46 Yeah, well, like I said earlier, I think if we're going to stand around waiting for the Federal government or the province, or some other larger national entity, to sort of tell us how to solve this problem, I think we'll still be standing around waiting for a few years. So, my perception is that all politics is local. And that the solution to this problem is local. And I just gave you an example of the Zibi community,  where that is a local project that has been done. It's been done locally, not because someone said at the Government of Canada," thou shalt build a zero carbon community". They did it because it was the right thing to do. And they felt they could do it in that environment. Again, no direction from the feds of the province. It was purely local. So the answer, as I said, is local. It's going to be local, it's going to be you and me and Rebecca, and everybody else coming up and making decisions on our own, that we want to leave this place in a better place for our kids. It's that little expression, ou Chair reminds me a lot on a daily basis. You know, leave the campsite in a better place than you found it kind of thing, right! So, that's our goal. That's, that's my goal coming to Hydro Ottawa was to leave the company in a better place that I found it. That should be our collective goals. So, the City of Ottawa has declared a climate emergency, they have announced their targets, they're ramping up a series of climate change initiatives to meet those targets. Our job is to support them, they're our shareholders. So, if we can bring our money, our expertise, to help support them deploying carbon free energy solutions, or just things that can help curb carbon, then that's what we'll do. I think we've got a pretty good track record, quite frankly, the fact that we've announced that we're going to be carbon neutral by 2030 is one thing to say, but we're doing it and we're on our way.  And that garnered the attention of other organizations in town who were saying, well, if Hydro Ottawa was going to do this, maybe they can help us do the same thing. Now, is 2030 an audacious goal for some of them? Yeah, it's probably unrealistic for some but, the point is, at least we're doing it and obviously it would be inconceivable for the City of Ottawa model to get there by 2030. But isn't it nice to know that they can count on a partner that is going to be carbon neutral by 2030 to help them achieve their objectives going forward? So look, we're an innovative company. We're the largest producer of green renewable energy in Canada. We've got a first rate utility, and we've got an energy solutions company that's there to support our customers, our businesses, and our shareholders. And we will deploy all three to that benefit. So, I think my expectation is that as we go into this next municipal election, climate change  will be -if it's not going to be number one or number two, on the agenda, I'll be shocked. Like, I honestly think it's risen to that level of importance for the citizens of Ottawa. So yeah, taxes are always there, but I think climate change is going to be right up there with it.   Rebecca Schwartz  25:33 So Bryce, as you know, we're in the distinctive position at Hydro Ottawa of having cross border assets in Ontario, Quebec and New York. How important is it that Canada's electricity system, as a whole, becomes more integrated across provincial boundaries? And what key steps can we expect will be taken in that direction?   Rebecca Schwartz  25:53 Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a great question, Rebecca. And I think what people don't really appreciate is just how, how amazing the electricity grid actually is. It is a fully integrated machine that works from one side of the continent to the other side. I mean, it's just truly magical that you can sort of walk into your room and turn on a light 99.999% of the time and that lights are gonna come on. And that's a credit to the people that built the system in the first place. So, the good news is that it is a fully integrated grid, Canada - US. Unfortunately, it's a little too north-south for my liking at the moment. Most of the grid runs north-south. So, power gets bought and transferred between Quebec and Manitoba. But, if you look at sort of the large clean energy supplies coming out of Quebec, most of them are directed south, into the US for export markets. Going forward, that's obviously going to have to change. Canada is capable. If you look at the Ontario grid, we're 90%, clean and green. When you look at something like Saskatchewan, or Nova Scotia or Alberta, which still heavily reliant on coal or natural gas or other fossil fuels, the answer is we have to share amongst our brotherhood, so that we have to get that clean power from Quebec and Ontario and British Columbia going east- west. And I should say, Yukon, Northwest Territories the same way- but access to more difficult but still access to sort of clean, green renewable. The point, that system has to sort of be brought to bear on a national level, so that the inter ties between Ontario and Quebec are more plentiful. The power gets shifted into Nova Scotia, so that we can, so that our energy system can be truly clean and green. And it shouldn't take that long. Unfortunately, what's gonna get in the middle of that is your classic nimbyism, right. Where no one wants to build or  have these transmission lines running through their backyard kind of thing, for obvious reasons. But we built the railroad and the railboard built the country, St. Lawrence Seaway. We've done some,incredibly impressive things from an infrastructure perspective, and I just think that's the answer going forward. We need to sort of build that infrastructure at a national level. So that, again, the power from Churchill Falls is flowing to Regina. And in Edmonton and Calgary and, yeah, that's my answer.   Dan Seguin  28:49 Okay, let's talk capacity. Getting to net zero by 2050 will mean roughly doubling clean electricity production in Canada. By one estimate, that's clean energy Canada. What do we need to be doing today to make that achievable?   Bryce Conrad  29:08 Well, again, the first step in the 12 step program is admitting that you have a problem. So, we have a problem. If you just step back and look at the politics, we can't build a pipeline in this country to save our lives. Now, whether you think that's the right thing or not, it's, it's a proxy for what's necessary. So okay, we're not going to build a pipeline, but you need to build big transmission lines east to west or west east or vice versa. So yeah, if you're gonna double the electricity, the clean electrical energy, which  is eminently doable. We've got plenty of sources and we've got lots of supply, we've got more thatwe can tap. You just need to sort of start to work together, collectively. Province to province, federal government with the provinces, to sort of make this happen. And again, I have hopes, because at the end of the day we're one country, we built some amazing infrastructure - the St. Lawrence Seaway is a perfect example. And, you know, the rail lines, we've done this stuff before. There's no reason we can't do it again. Faced with a face of the future where the costs of climate change are real. And they're only getting higher on an annual basis. It's only a matter of time before the politicians wake up and realize that this is the solution, and they have to do something, and they have to act. And it's in our best interest to do so as a nation. So, I'm hopeful.   Dan Seguin  30:55 Now, Bryce, I'm curious, what are the three most innovative sustainability projects that you're most proud of right now? That maybe people don't know Hydro Ottawa is doing or involved with?   Bryce Conrad  31:10 Sure. I can probably give you four. And I know, yes, you asked for three. But I'll give you four! The first, that I don't think people fully appreciate, is how significant our generating assets actually are. We're not talking about small run of the mill, solar facilities, we're talking about large, 150 megawatts of clean green, renewable energy - on both sides of the border, capable of powering well over 100,000 homes. We've grown that production by 500% since 2012. So we are a real player in this business. And these are assets that are carbon free. So, talking about future proofing your generating fleet, right, these are the things that everybody's gonna want when they realize that there is no such thing as clean coal. Or when they realize that fossil fuels are not the answer going forward. So, we have these assets and they're spectacular. And I'd encourage anybody in Ottawa, if you want to see some of them in action, to go check out the ones at Chaudiere Falls, which are a dam. Rebecca, I'm not sure if you've seen it but Dan sure has. I mean, just breathtaking to watch, particularly in the summer  -wouldn't go there today when it's minus 12,000 degrees because the wind coming off would be horrifying -but lovely in the sun. If you wait for Bluesfest, there's no better place to listen to the music than Chaudiere Falls! You get all the benefits of Bluesfest without paying or dealing with crowds. Anyway, so that's number one, our generating fleet. Number two is the thing I spoke about earlier, the Zibi community funding. Again, 34 acres of prime development down there, carbon free, and we were part of that solution to make it happen. And hoping to replicate it making bigger, better elsewhere. But just taking something which was otherwise a science project or a concept and sort of bringing it to reality, something that we're immensely proud of. And I think Ottawans will be as well. The third, just because my kids love it, is we've got this, this new substation going out, or transformer station going out in south Ottawa in the Barrhaven area, which is growing like a weed, obviously. With 10 or 12% growth every year. So, we had to build the new station out there. And we bought the necessary land for the station. It's called Cambrian station. It's going online sometime between now and June, I think. In fact, it's being tested as I speak. But the point is, we bought enough land up there that we've been able to donate 15 acres for a pollinator meadow to bring back the butterflies and plant some trees. So again, no real cost to us other than the land that was used that we bought for the transformer station itself. But here's another opportunity for us to do the right thing. And last but not least, the fourth one, which I'm very proud of is the role that we played in the conversion of the streetlights. So, Ottawa had high pressure sodium street lights, like every other municipality. And over the course of four years, we were able to convert all 56,000 lights to LEDs, saving the city a massive amount of money somewhere in the range of $6 million a year. And those are continuous savings, right? So, that's right to the bottom line. So these are street lights that are better, they're all IP addressable so, if the Sens win the Stanley Cup, we can flash red and white, whatever we want. The point is, they're good for a long time. And those energy savings will pay for them. Well, they already paid for the project once over already! Now, all the savings go right through to the taxpayer, so I am very proud of us.   Rebecca Schwartz  35:42 Another thing we're doing is targeting an entirely non emitting grid by 2035. What sort of changes will that mean for electricity, utilities and customers?   Rebecca Schwartz  35:52 Yeah, this is going back to the moonshot, Rebecca. In the sense that we're talking about it. And obviously, we're committing to do these sorts of things, but we don't necessarily have a clear cut perspective on how it's going to be done. So look, as I said earlier, in Ontario, the grids 92%, clean and green right now. The other 8% is natural gas. So yeah, we need to turn the grid into an automated grid by 2035. utilities like ourselves are going to have to invest in trying to find ways of managing line losses and just transmission. You know, the transmission of electricity from point A to point B emits ghgs, and that needs to be curtailed. So how do you do that? Well, I mean, there's technology that hopefully we brought to bear. I mean, today's minds are better than the lions 10-15 years ago. So I mean, I think the answer there is going to be technological change. The good news is we have a lot of smart, smart, smart people. Both academically within utilities, within the association's working on trying to solve this problem. But yeah, it' a challenge for us. And I don't necessarily have the right answer. I don't have an answer for you right now. As I explained to my Board, the iPhone is 12 years old this year. So, imagine what life -think back to where we were in 2008. I can't even imagine what my life, what our lives would be like if we didn't have an iPhone in our pocket, right? So, that's a technological change. That's made a fundamental difference in our life and in our society. Some good, some bad. But surely, the hope is that technological change will help us get to an automated grid by 2035 in an affordable way.   Dan Seguin  38:05 Now back in 2019, Hydro Ottawa opened its new office building, centralizing your operations, while ensuring a new building with a greener footprint. Can you tell us about this decision to move and how you've incorporated sustainability into your building operations?   Bryce Conrad  38:24 I joined Hydro Ottawa on August 15 2011. On August 16th 2011, we had a Board meeting, where they authorized the company to move forward with what is called ubiquitously The Real Estate Strategy. Which was effectively:  Look, you know, as a result of amalgamation we had buildings all over the place. We inherited Gloucester Hydro, Ottawa Hydro, Nepean Hydro and Kanata Hydro. So, we had all these buildings all over the place that we inherited. Some of them were in pretty good shape, others were absolute pig. Thinking of the one at Albion road would be the prime example. The point was there, they were in all the wrong places from an operational perspective. They were just in the wrong place. So we developed a plan and a strategy to sort of recapitalize our buildings, and we knew that, quite frankly, for every dollar I spent on Albion road, it was $1. I lost, because the value is not in the building, the value is in the land. I use the term value loosely. We made that decision and the Board exported it, the Ontario Energy Board, as part of our applications, endorsed the idea that we needed new facilities.So we launched the plan in 2014 with a couple of stutter steps along the way, trying to find the right lands. Finally we landed on the right places for us as a company. If you look at our headquarters we built, we opened in 2019. All the new buildings are built to LEED Gold standards. Both facilities have significant on site renewable energy, they have solar facilities on sites. We didn't want them to be ostentatious or flashy, we wanted them to be functional. We want them to be low maintenance to the extent that we possibly could. We wanted to do what we could on our GHGs and also environmentalism. And that came directly from our employees. As we're doing the builds and designing, we're constantly reaching into our workforce to see what was important to them, what they want to see. One of the things everybody obviously wants to light. So, if you've been to the facilities, you know they're wide open, everybody has access to fresh, good quality air. Everyone has access to daylight for the most part. So they actually turned out fantastic. It's exactly what we want. So, we installed a whole bunch of different environmental things. Solar solar charging stations at our headquarters, we've got electrical charging stations at the headquarters, we've got a lot of reduction facilities in place. So I think we're using 55 or 60% less water than we otherwise used to. We use the gray water return that gets used back into the gardens and stuff like that. I think we're diverting 90-95% of our non hazardous waste. Our kitchen supplier has  access to a dehydrator which allows them to dehydrate the food waste, reduce, and to use it as compost. From the design perspective, health and wellness was factored into it from day one. So we've got a, I wouldn't say world class gym facility, but it's pretty damn good. Got lots of ergonomically designed workspaces, the meeting rooms are flexible, we've got collaboration spaces everywhere. So the whole point was, I think Steve Jobs used to refer to them as collision points, where an employee could walk would bump into another employee and an idea would germinate. That's kind of the way we built the place. So throughout the building, there's collaboration spaces, both inside and outside. We've even got a walking path on our property. So, all of those have been done because we're the right things to do. They were the right things to do now. Post pandemic, or in the middle of a pandemic, I will tell you, all these open spaces are not our friends. There are points where you'd like to put up some walls again and close the doors, but it is what it is. And we'll get past this and get back to normal. And we'll be happy with what we got.But, facilities are great!  We love them.  I honestly haven't heard anybody complain about facilities which if you work in the utility industry is shocking.   Rebecca Schwartz  43:47 It seems every couple of months, we're hearing about an innovative new example of electrification of other economic sectors. Here in Ottawa, we're seeing multiple modes of public transportation transitioning to electric, for example: e scooters - Which I have to say, I use a lot in our super fun - to everything else, such as chainsaws and lawn mowers seem to be up for grabs when it comes to electrification. What's the coolest example of electrification that you've come across Bryce?   Bryce Conrad  44:18 I got like 15 answers to this one. So I love those electric scooters. I used them for the first time when I was in San Diego, whipping along the waterfront in San Diego on an electric scooter was one of the coolest things in the world. Of course I didn't look so graceful I fell, but so be it. So those are really cool. I've seen electric surfboards, which I think are really cool, too. I'm terrified to even conceive of how to get on one, but it's this kind of a wakeboard that you get elevated up in the air. So, you're you're surfing on top of the water, and it's purely electric powered, but that looks pretty cool. My neighbor here has one. I'm jealous when I see him out there on it. But honestly, the coolest one, quite frankly, is still the cars. There used to be a car that came out of the US military, it was called a Hummer. And Arnold Schwarzenegger, when he was governor of California, had a Hummer and he made his electric. A great personal expense to him, I'm sure. But these are cars that have a massive big V 12 engine. When you turn on the gas, and you turn the car on, you could literally see the ozone layer deplete behind you, that's how much these things were. And they were just pigs on gas. I don't even know whether they would get up to a gallon, probably like three kilometers to a gallon of gas back in the day. But they were just enormous. And so much like everything else, they went the way in the dodo bird, they got sold off and then shut down. Well, then lo and behold, they're coming back. So 2022, is the first year of the electric Hummer. And it is 1000 horsepower, it weighs 10,000 pounds, or close to 10,000 pounds. Tt goes zero to 60 in 2.8 seconds. And again, it weighs 10,000 pounds!  Like it's amazing what they're capable of doing. It's going to have a range of 580 kilometers or whatever, whatever it will be. But just the sheer improvements in these electric vehicles is -  I mean, Dan knows he's got two of them! - But we're a long way from when these first electric cars came out. Hydro Ottawa I had one of the very first electric cars and I would tell you, you know, cuz I used to park next to it in the garage. There would be weeks that go by where I wouldn't see that car because it was in the garage being fixed or something was wrong. I drove it one day and my teenage daughter who's probably 13 at the time, was in the backseat thinking she's really cramped in the backseat, because the whole damn thing is a big battery. So you just think about where that car was relative to the cars that we're seeing out there today. And I'm not even talking about the Tesla's, I'm talking about, you know, the Hyundai's  and sort of the traditional car makers, and the efforts that they're making in the space. Like, it's truly exceptional what they're doing and full credit to them. Dan referenced the Audi electric e tron, I mean, it's the coolest car in the world! And all these cars are just incredible. So my answer is yeah, as I was saying with the e-scooters, at least I don't fall out of my car!   Dan Seguin  48:01 With Hydro Ottawa customers, making it very clear that climate change is important to them and they want you to continue being part of the solution and pushing the organization to do more. How are you planning to assist customers in reducing their carbon footprint?   Bryce Conrad  48:21 It's a great question. And it'spart of the moonshot, right. I don't actually know what they need until, until we start dialing this in and getting a workout. But what I know is that they want to interact with this differently. They want information, they want access to information in a way that nobody else has ever asked us, right? They are interactive. It used to be that the average Canadian thought of their electrical company, nine minutes a year, when they're paying the bills. That's not the case anymore. When they're making decisions with respect to appliances, they're thinking about their consumption, and they're making decisions with respect to their cars and they're calling us. One of our affiliates, Envari, one of the services we offer is electric vehicle readiness assessments for small commercial and condo buildings. Because for example for Dan to live in his house and install car chargers, no problem. But if you're living in a condo corporation with 400 units, how do you build out the electric car charging asset? Is a bill to the house to the person that owns the electric car? Or are they sort of shared resources? So I mean, these are some of the challenges that we're dealing with and our customers are dealing with firsthand. So, our job is to help. Our job is to try to help navigate those issues and concerns and provide them with the information. And sometimes they'll make the right decision. Sometimes they'll make the wrong decision, but at least they're making an informed decision if nothing else. So that's an example. The electric bus initiative here in Ottawa, is another one that we're quite proud of. We're gonna partner with the City of Ottawa to sort of deploy and roll out 400+ electric vehicle buses. So if you've ever seen these buses, I mean, they are sleek, they are noiseless. They are, quite frankly, enjoyable to ride. You don't have that diesel smell, that's everywhere. You're not on Slater street looking down a canyon of diesel spewing buses anymore. So, those are all the things that we're going to do to help our community and our customers. And quite frankly, they're probably 15,000 other things that we're going to be doing as we get into this fight.  As we get into this and start climbing this challenge or responding to this challenge, we're going to find other things that they're going to want. And what I do know is that we've got a good brand, we've got social license within our community. If they are going to turn to anybody, they are going to turn to us for solutions, and it's our job to help them.   Rebecca Schwartz  50:58 So Bryce, as a community asset, will Hydro Ottawa pursue netzero, outside the confines of its own operations? And if so, what's your plan in terms of playing such an instrumental role in the broader progress of Ottawa towards becoming netzero? And or any other sorts of electrification programs?   Bryce Conrad  51:20 Yeah, yeah, I mean, let's be clear, that's one of the reasons we're doing a netzero commitment.  We made a commitment and the Board was very clear, we're not just doing this so that we can feather our own cap, we're not doing the sit here and put a banner that says mission accomplished in 2030. We're going to do this because we want to support our community in our city in moving to being netzero, whether that by 2040, or 2050, we want to get there. Hydro Ottawa actually becomes a catalyst to helping them achieve these things. And that means, you know, partnering with the city on their energy evolution file, working with the city on the electric bus stuff I talked about. Helping them look at their municipal buildings and say, okay, you know, the Nepean sportsplex - is it time for this thing to go through a deep retrofit so that we can sort of make it more energy efficient? I mean, the city's got massive real estate holdings, and a lot of buildings that predate me and predate you and predate us, which are in dire need of retrofitting. It's the low hanging fruit, isn't it. We've swapped out the light bulbs already. Like for us to make a difference and to sort of hit those targets that the city has set for itself we got to start doing some real meaningful stuff. Like, we got to start doing some deep retrofits to buildings we got to start doing with the city on the bus, you gotta start doing some big bold things. And we're there to help them do that.  So the true answer to your question, Rebecca, is yeah, we're there. We're there. We'll be there. We'll be partnering with them. We'll use our technology. We'll use our budget if necessary.   Bryce Conrad  53:04 Okay mon ami. How about we close off with some rapid fire questions? Since you've already been a guest on our program? We've come up with some special new ones for you, Bryce, are you ready?   Bryce Conrad  53:17 I'm good.   Dan Seguin  53:19 What are you reading right now? Bryce?   Bryce Conrad  53:21 It's a book by Congressman Jamie Raskin. It's called Unthinkable but January 6, last year, I guess. So Jamie Raskin is a Congressman from Maryland whose son tragically committed suicidelike days before January six. And then he, Jamie Raskin, went on to serve as the the head of the impeachment proceedings against former President Trump as a result January 6, so it's a book about that. So that's really depressing, but it's a fantastic book and terrifying at the same time. But I just finished reading the book by Mark Carney which I recommend to anybody and everybody I thought was really really well done. So if you haven't read that should read that too. Little more cheery.   Dan Seguin  54:13 Now, what would you name your boat if you had one?   Bryce Conrad  54:18 So, the short answer is I think all boats should be called the Enterprise. But I actually saw a boat on the and the Rideau, it was parked in front of the convention center this year. It was just a massive boat. And the boat's name was Size Matters, which was pretty funny. I'll stick with Enterprise!   Dan Seguin  54:43 Wondering if you could share with us who is someone that you truly admire?   Bryce Conrad  54:49 I mean, look, how can you not admire somebody like Nelson Mandela or you know, I think Winston Churchill is probably the greatest leader the world has ever seen. So out I'll go with Winston Churchill on Nelson Mandela and leave it there.   Dan Seguin  55:03 Now, what is the closest thing to real magic that you've witnessed?   Bryce Conrad  55:09 I haven't a clue, pass.   Dan Seguin  55:12 What has been the biggest challenge to you personally, since the pandemic?   Bryce Conrad  55:17 Before the pandemic, I probably logged, I don't know, 75,000 miles a year on the plane flying from one place to another. A lot of it out of it for meetings and stuff, but the lack of travel, the lack of contact, from a professional perspective, Whether it was going to CS Week or Distribute Tech, or any of these other meetings, you go to them and you'd come back kind of rejuvenated on the one hand, but also kind of inspired by the things that we were doing relative to our peers. And then you'd always pick up one or two little things that you thought the answer was cool. I wish we could do something like that. And quite frankly, it's been two years since I've been able to do that. And, you know, Zoom calls are great, but they just don't capture the same, you don't get the same benefit. Right. So I would say that, obviously, and just just day to day social interaction, it'd be nice to actually be able to have people over without worrying about whether they've been vaccinated and boostered. And all that nonsense, but I'm hopeful.   Dan Seguin  56:30 We've all been watching a lot more Netflix and TV lately. What's your favorite movie or show?   Bryce Conrad  56:39 Well, the greatest movie of all time is the Godfather. So that's the one that no matter what time of day or night it's on, if I, if I flipped by and said it's on, I will watch whatever's left of it. So that's just it. And then my favorite TV show - sounds stereotypical -  I love the Sopranos. I re-watched every Sopranos over the holidays, because David Chase came out with that new movie, The Saints of Newark, which I want to refresh my memory on all things Tony Soprano before I watch that.   Dan Seguin  57:10 And lastly, Bryce. What's really exciting you about the electricity sector right now?   Bryce Conrad  57:16 What’s not exciting, right? The biggest challenge facing our country are the people, this generation, this climate change and how we respond to climate change. And where else do you want to be in the middle of a fight then right in the middle of it, right? So climate change is the challenge and electricity as the answer. And the electrical sector is going to be front and center in that fight. So, I can't think of a better place to be. I, like lots of people, have had other opportunities presented to me over the last few years, but there's no place I'd rather be than at the head of Hydro Ottawa as we go into this climate change. In fact, I just think the opportunities are fantastic. I think the impact is fantastic if we can get it right. And I'm just bullish on the sector. I think our  sector is the answer. Whether it be electric, transportation, or heating and cooling. It's going to be electricity. That's the answer. And it's just a question trying to find how do you fit it all together in a formal way that people can understand?   Rebecca Schwartz  58:35 Well, Bryce, that's it. We've reached the end of another episode of the thinkenergy podcast. Thanks again, Boss for joining us today. We hope you had a good time!   Bryce Conrad  58:44 Had a great time thanks, guys.   Dan Seguin  58:46 Thanks for tuning in for another episode of The think energy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review wherever you're listening. And to find out more about today's guests or previous episodes, visit think energy podcast.com I hope you'll join us again next time as we spark even more conversations about the energy of tomorrow.  
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Jan 31, 2022 • 34min

Technology’s Impact on a Greener Future with Amber Mac

Technology has evolved so rapidly to make our lives easier, but many would argue these advancements have been a leading cause in the current state of climate change. Knowing we need to find cleaner energy methods, is it possible technology could help solve the problem it may have helped create? Join host Dan Séguin as he sits down with accomplished entrepreneur, best-selling author, and award-winning podcaster Amber Mac to discuss the potential impact technology could have on a greener future. They also explore how Millennials and Generation Z are likely to be leaders in creating purpose-first technology, the rise in popularity of the work from home movement, and why infrastructure is hindering access to electric vehicles.  Related links LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ambermac/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/ambermac --- To subscribe using Apple Podcasts:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405 To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com/ --- Subscribe so you don't miss a video: https://www.youtube.com/user/hydroottawalimited Check out our cool pics on https://www.instagram.com/hydroottawa More to Learn on https://www.facebook.com/HydroOttawa Keep up with the Tweets at https://twitter.com/thinkenergypod Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:06 This is thinkenergy, the podcast that helps you better understand the fast changing world of energy through conversations with game changers, industry leaders, and influencers. So join me, Dan Seguin as I explore both traditional and unconventional facets of the energy industry. Hey, everyone, welcome back. I think it's fair to say that within the last decade or two, technology has evolved and innovated at an accelerated pace, unlike any other time in human history, like the fact that Apple releases a new generation of its iPhones every single year, it seems like society has created a demand for faster and better technology. As britannia.com says, social need does drive technological innovation. We're also living in a time where the resources are available for us to achieve these advancements, unlike, say, in 1490, where Leonardo da Vinci had sketches for helicopters, airplanes, and believe it or not submarines, he had the vision, but not the resources at that time to make his inventions a reality. And perhaps, at the time, society didn't have a need for such things. Okay, let's fast forward to today. And when it comes to a major world problem, like climate change, you could argue that there is a real social need for faster and better technology for cleaner sources of energy. And while not all technology exists to achieve net zero, at the very least, some might get us closer. It's hard not to feel that innovation and technology are what's going to help us solve the current climate crisis, even if some would argue that innovation and technology may have caused the predicament that we are currently in in the first place. Now, here is today's big question. So we know that as a society, we need to change how we use energy, find cleaner methods and develop technologies to make this happen. But is that enough? And can technology really curb the impact of climate change? Our special guest today is recognized internationally as an innovation and technology leader. Her professional accomplishments include a best selling author, award winning podcaster, a sought after keynote speaker and accomplished entrepreneur, and she joins us today. So very cool. Amber McArthur is what many call a multi hyphenate. She is a regular business host and experts on Fast Company, CNN, Bloomberg, CBS CTV, the Marilyn Denis show, and Sirius XM, where she co hosts another podcast the fi, better known as Amber Mac, she started her career in San Francisco and Boston, during the .com. Boom, she left the startup world to join Microsoft to build one of the first female focused lifestyle portals. And in 2006, she started her own digital agency. Welcome, Amber, thank you very much for taking the time to join us on this show. Let's kick things off by asking what comes to mind when you hear the word technology and innovation?   Amber Mac  04:04 Well, the first thing that comes to mind when I hear the words technology and innovation is that we need more of it in Canada today. So I think one of the most interesting things that we're seeing when it comes to technology and innovation is when technology can solve a certain problem. And we have many problems in our world today that do need solving. And that's why there has to be such a focus on technology for the future, especially when it comes to the next generation.   Dan Seguin  04:32 Okay, Amber. Now, what do you think are the biggest causes or drivers of technological advancements and innovation today?   Amber Mac  04:42 Well, I think what we've seen historically, especially over the past few decades, is that money is a big driver when it comes to technology and innovation. In 1999. I moved out to San Francisco to work in the startup scene because there was so much money being invested in that community at that time. Now that hasn't really shifted, there's still a lot of money in Silicon Valley. But we're seeing that there are pockets of places across Canada, where there is more investment when it comes to the technology sector. So the truth is, if you're in a community and you're developing technology, it's very difficult if you aren't in one of those core hubs across the country.   Dan Seguin  05:21 Okay. What do you think was the biggest tech innovation that changed the world in 2021?   Amber Mac  05:29 That is a really good question. So I'm thinking you've been thinking about all types of technology innovations. And of course, if I think if you asked me this question in 2020, I would have said, the mRNA technology that has allowed so many of us to get vaccinated, I think, in 2021, when we look at the different types of innovations in our society, I would still stick with the Health Tech theme. Because what I've seen more and more is that this is probably one of the most exciting sectors when we think about the future of technology. And the place where I think I would say deserves the most attention is perhaps within wearables. Right now I'm wearing a band called The whip band that allows me to know if my respiratory rate is off, my HRV rates, all of those details, my sleep, my activity. And I think when we think about an individual, harnessing the power of being able to have data at their fingertips 24/7 In terms of being able to understand their health, I think we've kind of underestimated how critical and important that is, especially during pandemic times.   Dan Seguin  06:37 Now, I know you recently had a conversation with Minister Gibo, the new Minister of the Environment and Climate Change, technologically speaking, what are your thoughts on Canada's plan to be net zero by 2050?   Amber Mac  06:52 I think technologically speaking, when we look at the year 2050, I think most people will agree that seems like a long way away. And I understand the importance of having deadlines. But I think for a lot of Canadians, I think individuals are still kind of unsure about how they can contribute to achieving this goal in Canada. And I think at the end of the day, that's the piece that is missing. You know, we have questions many times in our society, does this mean that I should eat less meat? Does this mean that I should no longer drive a gas powered vehicle? Does this mean that I should think about heat pumps in my home and we have so many questions, but I think at the individual level, Canadians are still kind of unsure about how they can be partners in this goal. And I do think it's up to the federal government to do a better job of communicating that I think businesses are starting to get up to speed in terms of their responsibility. But I do believe that each Canadian can also play a role. But we need a clear definition in terms of what that role is going to be, and how we can help things along the way. So maybe that deadline could be even sooner.   Dan Seguin  08:01 Okay. How does that goal to curb climate change impact technology, as well as us and our everyday lives?   Amber Mac  08:11 Well, I think what we're seeing with this goal in mind is that when we talk about technology, there's a huge opportunity in this country, for those organizations that focus on climate tech. And I think when we say the term of climate tech, the truth is that all technology should have our climate in mind. So I hope at some point, that that is just technology for the future. So I think at the end of the day, I think we're gonna see some incredible opportunities for organizations, including startups in this country, to really start to focus on solutions in terms of getting to that goal. And I think there'll be plenty of opportunities for both investors as well as inventors and researchers along the way, but we really have to learn how to nurture those communities. Because Canada is really great at research. But we're not so great at the commercialization of some of that research. And that's where we can definitely do a better job.   Dan Seguin  09:08 In your opinion, Amber, what innovations in the energy sector or by society at large, with respect to energy use have been the most impactful?   09:20 Well, I've been reading a number of reports, you know, every year in the tech sector, we constantly have these reports that talk about the top technology of 2021. And there are always these really compelling lists on that list. We see technology like heat pumps, you know, it's not exactly the sexiest of technology, but I think there are some places across Canada that are doing a really good job of providing incentives for individual homeowners to actually put heat pumps into their home. We have a home in Charlottetown Prince Edward Island and everybody on PEI Believe it or not, is always talking about heat pumps. Seems like a weird conversation, but they understand their energy efficient that they can get rebates from the government. We don't hear as many of those conversations in other places like where I live now in Ontario. So when it comes to the future of the climate, I think having more of these conversations more incentive for individuals to change their habits, that is definitely critical. We also see headlines on a regular basis, I was just looking on CTV News. And I saw this headline a few days ago, Ontario, researchers create chemical compounds that can neutralize COVID-19. This is amazing research that's being done here in Toronto. However, if you get a little bit further down in the article, you see that it's going to take a couple of years for this technology to come to market. So perhaps a little too late. But we again, we do a great job in this country in terms of research in the space of technology. And we're always innovating. It's just that extra step to get it out there into the public. Okay,   Dan Seguin  10:55 that being said, what does the future of technology look like as we embark on a journey to evolve our energy resources to a netzero future by 2050?   Amber Mac  11:07 Well, I think that 2021 has actually been a pretty ugly year in the world of technology, in some ways, probably not specific to the energy sector. But if we look at some of the big tech companies of today, I think what we've seen is that many of the leaders in that space perhaps lack the vision or the commitment to put things like climate, front and center. And so what I'm hoping for, and I hope this isn't just wishful thinking, is that we see more technology companies, but more specifically leaders who focus on being responsible when it comes to the evolution of technology to help people and and help out a larger population of people. It can't always be about profit, we have to also be focusing on purpose first. Now, if I want to say there's a silver lining there, I think maybe it's the next generation of leaders in the sense that I do believe that they are much more savvy about the future of the planet, and they have energy concerns already, even my 12 year old. And so I believe that next generation has a better possibility of being the leaders of tomorrow that we need to develop technology to make this planet a healthier place.   Dan Seguin  12:20 Now, Amber, based on your knowledge of technology and societal change. What are people looking for in tech? Like, what do they need?   Amber Mac  12:31 Well, how long do you have because I would say one of the things I've learned after almost 20 years in this industry, is that there aren't really that many of us who are out there and have made careers of demystifying technology. I've been fortunate to be able to do that. And I assumed by this point in my career, that there would be, you know, dozens of people who would flock to this job, so to speak in Canada, but there really aren't that many people. And I think what we see today is that Canadians, as individuals have more and more questions all the time about how technology can improve their lives. And I always believe that individuals are hungry and excited about doing the right thing when it comes to technology choices for themselves for the planet. But I do think that a lot of people are confused about what technology to choose. And I do think some technology companies haven't done a great job of demystifying technology to explain how it works, you know, heat pumps, again, if we can go back to that. I mean, that's a great example, a lot of people don't understand exactly how heat pumps actually work to both potentially cool and warm your house. So we have to do a better job. And maybe it's the responsibility of the technology companies. But there probably also is a role for our governments at all three levels to play when it comes to communicating the technology that can make our lives better, and again, can help us in this climate fight.   Dan Seguin  13:55 Now, where do you think the direction of smart technology and devices are going? Is it AI? Autonomous or something unexpected?   Amber Mac  14:07 Well, I think one of the most exciting trends that we're seeing in this space in terms of the future of technology is around the topic of automation. That, of course includes many AI systems. And so when we think about automation at large, I know people worry that this could potentially impact jobs, which it likely will to some extent, but there is a role in the future for automation to be able to play via a significant player in healthcare is one example. You know, just think about all of the research we've seen over the past few years with AI technology that can help to diagnose things like breast cancer more efficiently even then, the human eye. And so I think if we look at the potential of the future AI and automation is probably going to have the biggest impact on our society, it will be beneficial, but we also have to be prepared as a society in terms of having the skills to be able to thrive in the age of automation, knowing again, that some jobs may be at risk.   Dan Seguin  15:07 Are there any Canadian innovations or technologies that have captured your attention?   Amber Mac  15:15 Well, over the years, I've been lucky enough to keep an eye on to some of the top technology companies in the country and even interview some of those founders in the early days. And I would say that there are some bright stars when it comes to categories like fin tech, in the software and E commerce space. I mean, it's hard to have a conversation about technology changing the world without mentioning Ottawa based Shopify. So these are the type of companies that I've kept an eye on. But I do believe that we should be talking about having dozens of Shopifys in our society in terms of what Canadians have the potential to do in the future. So for me, there are sort of glimmers of hope, as far as the innovation that's happening in the tech sector. But I do think we can have to do a better job of the commercialization of some of that technology. And I don't think you have to move to the states anymore, like I did in 1999, to be able to succeed, I think you can have a global technology company that is built and successful right here at home.   Dan Seguin  16:18 Okay, Amber, what do you think the next generation, millennials, or Gen Z's can teach us about technology, or the environment?   Amber Mac  16:31 Well, you know, I think that I would probably look further to Gen Z. I'm not giving up on Millennials just yet. But you know, millennials are getting older. And I think Gen Z tends to be this more exciting category of young people that have grown up with idols out there like Greta Thunberg, and who have said that, hey, this is a fight that we are prepared to fight, we want our parents to fight it, we want our government to fight it, we want our teachers to fight it. And there are activists like us going out there and fighting it. So I am probably most excited about Generation Z in terms of their potential to be able to actually make changes in the world in the future when they come into positions of power. At the same time, I'm hesitant to put the weight of climate on this young generation of kids who maybe haven't had a chance to really be kids, because they've had both the reality of dealing with the COVID 19 pandemic and the realities of dealing with a burning planet that have been basically sitting on their doorstep for so long. So it concerns me a little bit in terms of the pressure we put on them. But I do believe that we're going to see some exciting leaders come out of that generation.   Dan Seguin  17:43 Now thinking of your best selling book, is it still possible to outsmart your kids online, or when it comes to technology in general?   Amber Mac  17:54 I probably am one of those authors. I've written two best selling books and and I always tell people don't buy my books, because they're outdated after a year. We'll be honest about these conversations in terms of what is possible, you know, I wrote power friending, a best seller in 2010. And that was all about the potential of the internet to be this magical place to bring people together. And then all of a sudden, I see algorithms dividing us and being a threat to democracy. And I think wow, you know, I really was kind of naive, with outsmarting your kids online, I think it is possible for adults in the room to be able to have a good handle on what's happening in the technology space. But I probably am less optimistic than when I wrote that book in terms of adults being able to outsmart their kids because they're growing up again with this technology at their fingertips. And they're not naive about the impacts of that technology as well.   Dan Seguin  18:50 Now, I know you've done some research on EVs, electric vehicles, what are the biggest challenges for mass adoption? Does the social need exist finally, to make them a success?   Amber Mac  19:05 I certainly know that there are many people in Canada who are EV specialists whose knowledge is well beyond where I'm at. But the question I constantly have over and over again, is the infrastructure question, I had a chance to listen to some past episodes of your podcast. And I know that you have talked about this a number of times as far as what infrastructure is in place, and even what roles do governments especially municipal governments play as far as that infrastructure and the construction industry and beyond? So, from my perspective, one of the issues that I see is that there's an assumption from some people that every Canadian has a driveway and a garage where they can put these EVs. Now I live in downtown Toronto right off Queen Street. In a detached home. I don't have a driveway. We don't have a parking spot. I am the perfect EV buyer. And yet I cannot actually legitimately have an EV because I don't have a place to plug it in. And I think we're very slowly rolling out the infrastructure even in on the highways in Ontario, I know there have have been some movement to be able to have EV chargers, and some of the on route stops, and we're doing more and more, but it just feels like we're kind of trickling out these solutions is not happening fast enough. So my biggest complaint would be from an infrastructure standpoint, we at some point have to make it possible in the next few years for every single person who needs to plug in an electric vehicle to be able to plug it in, or else we're never gonna meet the goals that we want to meet. And it won't be realistic, that people have that choice that we think that they have right now.   Dan Seguin  20:44 Okay, so on a personal note, are you looking for an EV? And if so, what is your criteria to take the plunge?   Amber Mac  20:53 I would have bought an electric vehicle years ago, if I had some place to plug it in. The reality of my situation is that I just don't have the infrastructure to be able to do that. Now, on a street, one street over from us in downtown Toronto, there now is, I believe one or two chargers that have been put up as a test pilot in the city where people can charge their cars. It's just that's just not enough. You know, we have dozens and dozens of houses on on my street alone. And most people aren't going to walk over a street and then fight for two charging spots. So my desire to own an electric vehicle, unfortunately, is hindered by the reality of a total infrastructure failure. And I'm not sure how we're going to be able to do better if we don't react quickly in the near future.   Dan Seguin  21:43 What sort of smart tech do you have in your home? Does energy efficiency factor into your buying decision when it comes to your home?   Amber Mac  21:53 Well, one of the things that I've really been focused on in 2021, and as part of my company, Amber Mac media, we've committed to this in 2022, is that we're going to be focused more and more on sustainable tech. And even in 2020, and 2019. We actually bought this house I mentioned before, in Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, and we did an entire makeover of 140 year old historic home and turn it into a smart home. And it was a really fun project to be able to do this because we were able to focus on sustainable tech. So we have everything in the home from heat pumps, to smart thermostats to energy efficient faucets. And so at almost every level and every point of purchase in the home, we made a decision based on the sustainability factor. Now most Canadians are not going to have maybe the luxury to do it at that level. But let's face it, there's lots of sustainable tech out there. And I do believe more and more, especially as people spend more time at home, that that is going to be something that is driving their decision making. And that's why I am pushing and committing more to this in the next year and years ahead.   Dan Seguin  23:06 Next step up aren't Net Zero homes or renewable home generation are those on your radar?   Amber Mac  23:13 They absolutely are. And I think when we think about the term net zero homes, I mean, all of it is so exciting. And there's so many incredible innovations in this space. At the same time, we have an affordability crisis when it comes to homes in this country. And one of the things that I just don't want to see in the future. And I have to also try to avoid this as someone who covers the sector is to push for solutions that aren't equitable. And so when we think about the future of say, a net zero home, we want that to be something that could be a possibility for every Canadian. And yet right now we have so many issues in terms of that affordability piece that make that almost an impossibility. So we have a long way to go on that front. And it will be exciting when we see the possibility for every homeowner to be able to afford to buy sustainable tech, whether it's because of government rebates, or companies developing technology that just isn't as expensive as what we're seeing today.   Dan Seguin  24:15 Now, this is top of mind for a lot of people. What's your take on remote work? Is it here to stay?   Amber Mac  24:24 Oh, boy. Okay, so I am just fascinated on a daily basis about this topic. Because I'm looking at the research I'm reading what people are saying, in cities and in rural areas all over the world. And all signs points pretty much in the same direction that even if people can safely go back to work a lot of people especially parents, and families, they do not want to go back into an office five days a week. And yet at the same time, I do often talk to people who were who are leaders in the business community Who are so convinced and maybe blinded by, you know what they're hearing that people want to be in the office, it's important for collaboration. You know, we have a small team here, but I have one woman who's worked for us for a couple of years, who I've only seen twice, probably face to face during pandemic times, a woman who works for us in Cape Breton, who I really have maybe only met once in person. I mean, remote work for so many of us in the tech sector has been a reality for decades. And so I think this is an exciting trend that we need to embrace, especially when we think about the future of the planet and commute times and, and the habit that reeks on the world. And I think people are naive to think that most people want to go into a little cubicle with fluorescent lights and spend their days there.   Dan Seguin  25:47 Okay, aside from a cubicle, what are the barriers for it to become the norm after this pandemic?   Amber Mac  25:55 Well, I think one of the most important things that we need to be able to tackle when it comes to the future of remote work is that we need leaders who believe that this is important to the future of their company, or important to the future of recruiting people or the planet, we need leaders who are able to understand one key thing and that key thing is trust. And you have to believe that you can build trust in a virtual environment, I am the first person to say I do think that that is possible. It does take some effort. And it does take some work to do just that. But I think we're naive, again, to think that it is only face to face relationships that can be effective and help to grow a business. I think there are many benefits of remote work that leaders need to embrace. But those leaders who tend to often not embrace remote work, I find they tend to be the leaders who are a little more power hungry. And I like the idea of everybody under one roof. So that can keep an eye on what people are doing. But that is not the way to rule, especially if you're trying to recruit young millennials, or generation Z.   Dan Seguin  27:01 Okay, I'm curious, what tech can't You Live Without when you work remotely?   Amber Mac  27:06 I love that question. So I have this theory that has not been tested. But I have a theory that your virtual work setup. So kind of what we're doing right now is much more important than people think when it comes to things like virtual video, whether it's a zoom call, or a team's call, or you're doing a television interview, whatever that might be. The technology that I can't live without is really that technology that allows me to create a frictionless experience when I'm talking to someone through video, that means I don't have audio issues, or no lighting issues. I'm not you know, in a dark corner of my room where you can't see me and you think I look sketchy and you don't trust me, all of those things that we can do with technology to be able to build trust in this virtual environment. I think we underestimate the potential of those. So the technology that I can't live without, whether it's here in my studio or at home, it's just some basic tech, like a ring light for my desk, USB microphone, those things that help again, with this virtual environment and have made the pandemic a little bit easier because we've been able to build those relationships more efficiently.   Dan Seguin  28:17 Going through your list of accomplishments, Amber, and there are many, what is something you want to accomplish that you haven't yet?   Amber Mac  28:27 Well, I have a lot of things that I want to do in the future. And, you know, I've been in the tech sector for a while now. And I'm excited to continue to demystify technology for Canadians and people around the world. But there are things that I do want to focus on beyond the technology sector. One of those things, perhaps has nothing to do at all with technology. But I've just celebrated my 20th Sober anniversary where I haven't had a drink of alcohol and 20 years. And I do believe that there's this movement that's happening right now with people who have chosen to abstain from alcohol for one reason or another. I'm kind of excited to eventually to create a community around those people. Because I grew up in a place in rural Prince Edward Island where not drinking wasn't a choice. And I do want to show that next generation that there are plenty of people who've chosen sobriety who have been successful, and that we do exist out there. So it's not the right choice for everyone to choose to drink.   Dan Seguin  29:22 Now the energy sector is looking to attract more women in STEM science, tech, engineering and mathematics. What advice would you give companies and or decision makers?   Amber Mac  29:34 Well, it's interesting. I've been doing a little bit of work with actual which is based in Ottawa. Their CEO Jennifer Flanagan is an incredible resource in terms of understanding how we can get the next generation especially young girls interested in STEM and and through our conversations. I've learned many things that perhaps I wasn't aware about in the past and one of those things is often retaining women in the technology sector. If there's a big hurdle to do that, because often they feel as though they're not really accepted, or they don't feel comfortable, you know, they're in an environment where there aren't a lot of other women. So I think it's important for leaders to understand how important it is to create a culture in your organization that really embraces this idea of having a diverse workforce. And that includes, of course, gender diversity. And I think especially in the tech sector, we haven't done a really great job of that within most organizations. So that's kind of a first step. And there, there's some really great work happening right now to teach young girls about embracing technology and careers in technology. But we still have a long way to go. One of the things that Jennifer had said to me recently, is that oftentimes, boys actually choose technology as extra curricular activity. So they may do after school robotics classes, and they tend to sort of have an edge when they get out of school when it comes to having embraced technology. So there are things that we can do to encourage that next generation to get interested. And that means having more and more programs that expose young girls to technology as an option, even just as a hobby so that they develop interest in that space.   Dan Seguin  31:15 Now, how about you close us off with some rapid fire questions? Are you ready?   Amber Mac  31:21 I am ready. Let's do it.   Dan Seguin  31:23 Okay, Amber, what is your favorite word? What's my favorite word?   Amber Mac  31:28 Yes.   Dan Seguin  31:29 What is the one thing you can't live without Amber?   Amber Mac  31:33 One thing that I can't live with out, I don't want to say obvious things like my family. But I will say my whip band. I love my whip. And I love seeing my daily stats and data around my health.   Dan Seguin  31:44 What is something that challenges you?   Amber Mac  31:48 Twitter? Not that it's hard for me to use Twitter. It's just hard not to reply to some people.   Dan Seguin  31:55 Now, if you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Amber Mac  32:00 Invisibility?   Dan Seguin  32:04 If you could turn back time now and talk to your 18 year old self? What would you tell her?   Amber Mac  32:10 I would probably tell my 18 year old self that all was going to be okay. And the lessons I learned as a young child growing up in rural Prince Edward Island, were going to come in very, very handy in the real world.   Dan Seguin  32:27 And lastly, Amber, what do you currently find most interesting in the technology sector.   Amber Mac  32:35 I am a very curious person. And so there are so many things that I find interesting in the technology sector. But the thing I probably find the most interesting right now in terms of what's happening in this the future is the push for businesses to be more socially responsible. And it's going to be fascinating in 2022, to see how that pans out, you know, some people believe who are in the business world, that a company's only purpose is to actually create profit for individuals and the company at large. But I think what we're going to see in the future is that businesses in the tech space are going to have more responsibility than simply creating profits. So there's going to be some who struggle with this, but there are some that will embrace this and see it as almost a superpower for success.   Dan Seguin  33:25 Now, Amber, we've reached the end of another episode of the thinkenergy podcast. I'd like to thank you very much for joining us today. I hope you had a lot of fun.   Amber Mac  33:34 I had so much fun. Thanks so much for having me.   Dan Seguin  33:37 Until next time, I'm Dan Seguin. Thanks for tuning in for another episode of The think energy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review where ever you're listening. And to find out more about today's guests or previous episodes, visit thinkenergypodcast.com I hope you'll join us again next time as we spark even more conversations about the energy of tomorrow.
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Jan 17, 2022 • 46min

The Journey to a Net Zero Future

Canada has been vocal about reaching a net zero future, but in order for the country to get there, it’s going to require a combination of new technology and social behaviours. Catherine Abreu, Executive Director of Destination Zero and former Executive Director of Climate Action Network-Canada, joins thinkenergy this episode to discuss how we can build more resilient energy systems, how Indigenous communities are leading the charge on renewable energy development, and what it will take for Canada to reach its proposed net zero future. Listen to Catherine’s in-depth conversation with Dan Séguin and hear why she believes the antidote to despair is not hope, it’s action. Related Content: Destination Zero: https://www.destinationzero.earth/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/catabreu_ Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:06 This is thinkenergy. The podcast that helps you better understand the fast changing world of energy through conversations with game changers, industry leaders, and influencers. So join me, Dan Seguin, as I explore both traditional and unconventional facets of the energy industry. Hey, everyone, welcome back. On today's show, we're going to talk about what's on everyone's mind. Net Zero. Today's show is going to be a great one, Canada's Amazing Race to net zero emissions by 2050. The topic of climate change is something all generations Baby Boomers, Gen X, millennials and Gen Z's acknowledge as urgent and critical for the future of our planet. Now, imagine in the not too distant future where Canada is 100% powered by clean, renewable energy, and all vehicles on the roads are electric, producing zero greenhouse gas emissions. So to be clear, net zero will be reached when we remove as much or more greenhouse gas emissions from the atmosphere than we put into it. And this utopia is not science fiction, but rather an ambitious action plan that Canada aims to achieve by the year 2050. In fact, with less than three decades to go, the race is on to achievable targets and solve the greatest challenge of our lifetime. On another piece of information, the road Bank of Canada just released a report in October 2021, stating that this transition to net zero emissions could have a price tag of, get this, $2 trillion that 60 billion a year. Wow. Right now, we're putting as much pollution into the atmosphere as we did a generation ago emitting 730 million tons of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases each year. To get back on track, the federal government has committed to getting Canada back to around 500 million tons by 2030. And some of our listeners may not be aware of our very own organization, hydro auto holding, just announced its commitment to reach Net Zero operations by 2030. At first for any municipally owned utility company in Canada. That's pretty amazing. So here's today's big question. Say Canada reduces emissions by 500 million tons by 2030. What is it going to take to eliminate all greenhouse gas emissions between 2030 and 2050? Now joining us today is Catherine Abreu, the executive director of destination zero, and former executive director of Climate Action Network Canada. Catherine, I'm hoping you can shed some light on how the general public can sort spend from substance as it relates to net zero conversations that seem to be gaining enormous momentum. Now, Catherine, are you ready to dive into today's questions?   Catherine Abreu  03:42 Of course   Dan Seguin  03:43 The term Net Zero gets thrown around a lot, but is often misunderstood. Arguably, there's historically been a lot of attention and understanding around one half of the net zero equation, which is lowering our emissions profile. But there's another side to net zero as well, which involves removing or absorbing emissions from the atmosphere. Now, I'm wondering if you can speak to the second part in more details. What does it involve? And how important is carbon removal and absorption to Net zero efforts, Catherine?   Catherine Abreu  04:25 Hey, Daniel. Yeah, thanks for this question. It's a really, really important one. I think often when people hear the phrase net zero by 2050, and we've been hearing it a lot in the last couple of years, especially, you know, it's easy to get really distracted by those phrases, net and 2050. And for me, the operating word in that phrase is zero. And so what net zero means is that we are getting as close to zero emissions as possible. That being said, there will be remaining sources of emissions that were not able to mitigate in time by by mid century. And, and so we use that term net to talk about building up our capacity to sequester those emissions, either through natural means, which is the preferred choice by improving our agricultural lands, you know, turning our farms into places that can help capture some of that carbon by reforming some agricultural practices, restoring natural ecosystems in particular forests, which, of course, you know, requires number one for us to protect those forests, make sure they're not being chopped down. And as much as possible, protect them from the growing forest fires, that we're seeing rage across Canada, restoring other natural ecosystems, like wetlands, which are actually really huge carbon sinks, they store a lot of carbon. And so that's, that's, you know, the primary focus for that part of the net, is let's restore those natural ecosystems. So that we can sequester more of that carbon in the future, if we're not able to actually bring it down to zero, because, you know, some of that carbon is going to be coming from buildings, that will, we'll still be putting out some of that carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the future. And we won't be, you know, we may not necessarily be able to get every single building to zero emissions by 2050. So that's one potential source. Of course, industrial sources are another example. And restoring those natural ecosystems has a whole bunch of other benefits, right, like, improves our health and well being to be able to access those natural species, or those natural spaces, I should say. And it helps with species restoration, because of course, the the twin crises to climate changes the biodiversity crisis. And the other side of the of the net of the net equation is technology. So technology that will actually capture carbon from an industrial process or from the air and turn it into something else, ideally. So carbon capture, utilization and storage is the phrase that's often used on that front. CCUS is the acronym. And we have some of those technologies in operation right now. Generally, they're operating in extremely small scale in a very niche pilot project area. And they're being helped along by huge government subsidies, these carbon capture technologies are right now quite expensive. And so that's why we often say when we're talking about Net Zero that, while those technologies will likely be a part of our future, particularly in industrial applications, we probably right now need to be focusing on those solutions that we know are going to work, and that don't require such huge government subsidies. And those solutions are really in those those ecosystem restoration solutions that I was talking about at the outset.   Dan Seguin  07:58 Okay, in your view, Catherine, what are the most promising and impressive carbon reduction and removal technologies from the perspective of maximizing the ability to achieve net zero by 2050? What are you most excited about when it comes to the vision and opportunity of net zero?   Catherine Abreu  08:20 So yeah, I'm going to give you an answer that's maybe a bit unexpected, because I think when we imagine technology, we often think about it in very like mechanical terms, right? We think about, oh, what's the new, flashy, shiny piece of technology that we're going to apply, and that will save us from ourselves? I think, also, as humans, we tend to be very preoccupied with silver bullet solutions. So we're saying what's the new cool technology that we can invent that's just going to solve climate change for us in the future, and we don't have to worry about it. And so often get worried in the in the carbon capture conversation, that that's where people's minds go. And when in reality, we're looking at a huge mix of solutions. And the technologies that we're going to be working with some of them will be those, you know, mechanical technologies that we imagine that many of them will actually be social adaptations, right? So kind of healing based technologies, new ways of doing thing, things. And so to link it back to our earlier conversation about what net zero by 2050 really means, you know, we can think about a different way of approaching agriculture. So that farmland is turned from a carbon source, which it really is right now. It's the third largest source of carbon and greenhouse gas emissions in the world. So we can think about how to turn it from a carbon source into a carbon sink. So how do we, you know, how do we innovate in the agricultural sector to improve the Have those those agricultural lands capacity to sequester carbon. And I would say that that's actually the thing that I feel most excited about, because I think we have huge, largely untapped potential in that arena. And that conversation around agricultural transformation and the role that farmers can play in a netzero future is just picking up steam here in Canada. And I think it's going to be a really, really important one for us in the next decade. Because making farmers a part of the solution is also a big a big and exciting possibility. In terms of the those hard Technologies, a lot of room, as I was saying earlier, it's still relatively undeveloped. And so it's hard to say which one is going to win the day, right, which when we might be seeing used in some of those industrial applications more often in the future, that's likely to come kind of post 2030. So over the course of the next decade, will be really, really focusing on the things that we have at our fingertips right now. But there will be this kind of technological evolution that happens in parallel. And, you know, perhaps by the 2040s, and the 2050s, there will be some carbon capture technologies that are widely used, or more widely used. And so really, I think what we have to be focusing on is striking this balance between investing in the solutions that we know we have now that we have right at our fingertips, and that we just need to scale up. And then also, taking a look at some of the innovation and the evolution that's happening and carbon capture technologies, mostly in the private sector. There are there are private sector proponents that are thinking through that problem right now. And perhaps, you know, in the next decade, that's a little bit where where we'll be pivoting and thinking about how we're using some of those existing solutions at the scale we need to while also bringing in some of these newer technologies.   Dan Seguin  11:55 Okay. There, there seems to be a lot of excitement around the GHG reduction potential associated with electrification. What's your vision of the role of clean electricity and electrification of other sectors when it comes to helping to fulfill our country's GHG reduction requirements?   Catherine Abreu  12:20 I love this question. I spent the early part of my career regularly attending utility review board meetings and thinking through integrated resource planning processes for utilities. And so I I'm a dedicated electricity nerd. And I think, you know, we often don't talk about that as much as we need to in Canada, because we have an electricity, we have electricity systems across Canada that are already over 80% non emitting. And so for us electricity is is maybe a little bit less a part of the climate action conversation than it is in other places that have much more greenhouse gas intensive electricity systems. But of course, that that really differs across the country. So you know, we have pretty GHG intensive electricity systems on the East Coast in Canada, you know, through the prairies. But why we focus in on that is because clean electricity is where it all starts, that's the foundation that we have to build a decarbonized society from a clean electricity system is what we need to power electric vehicles. Whether those are personal vehicles or public transportation vehicles, clean electricity is what we need to depend on to build our net zero homes. Right, you can't have a netzero home if if that home is, in part using electricity that's being generated from greenhouse gas emitting sources like coal. And so all of these other sectors that we want to decarbonize even industry, right, huge potential for electrification in industry. But the only point of electrifying industry is if that electricity is cleaner than the sources of energy that they're using right now. So all of those other sectors need to decarbonize. And the way they're going to decarbonize is by using a clean electricity system. And I think also part of why that conversation is big here in Canada is because we are at the starting point of having a relatively clean electricity system when compared to other jurisdictions. And so here in Canada, we have the potential to, you know, scale up the renewable the clean, renewable energy that's in our energy mix already. So moved from over 80% clean electricity across Canada to closer to 100% clean electricity in Canada and their government commitments that put us on that track. And we also have the potential to think about scaling up our exports of clean electricity. And I think that's actually an important conversation because Canada has a very greenhouse gas intensive export economy right now, a lot of our exports, you know, they are fossil fuel intensive. And so they have a really high carbon footprint. And we need to be thinking about how to substitute those high carbon exports with low carbon exports, as our economy decarbonize is, and clean electricity is a big part potential there. So yeah, so that's really the foundation of of the social and economic transformation that we're talking about it from as we shift from fossil fuel based energy sources, to clean renewable energy based sources.   Dan Seguin  15:32 When folks hear about plans for reaching net zero by 2050, their immediate reaction is to be concerned about potential increase of in energy costs, or perhaps about losing their jobs, depending on the sector they work in. What would you say to these folks, Catherine?   Catherine Abreu  15:53 the concern of a rising energy costs is a huge one. You know, we've actually seen that rear its head pretty substantially this year, in the late half of 2021, with rising energy costs across Europe, relating mostly to the rising costs of gas. And I think actually, a big lesson that we're learning from the energy cost crisis that many parts of Europe and other parts of the world are experiencing right now is that the fossil fuel market is actually quite volatile. And that volatility has impacted Canada quite a bit as a major oil and gas producer already. But it's starting to impact not only, you know, production, and jobs related to that production of fossil fuels, it's starting to also know penetrate energy systems that rely on those fossil fuels. And, and so we need to be correcting for that volatility. And a part of how we do that actually, and this is maybe counterintuitive to a lot of folks, because there's a lot of misguiding rhetoric out there around renewable energy. But part of how we make energy systems more resilient, is by incorporating more renewable energy more distributed renewable energy generation into those systems. And then another important piece is energy efficiency. So you make those energy systems really lean as much as you can, by cutting energy waste, right? So we want to me making sure that we're not losing energy as it's transferred from where it's created to where it's used, we want to make sure that when it's used, it's used as efficiently as possible. And so those investments in energy efficiency help make the energy system more stable. And then when we make that energy system run on renewable energy, and when we're talking renewable energy, we're talking about a mix here of water when sun and storage, of course, and then we see that, that there is a new kind of resilience put into that system. Because often those energy sources can help us lock in long term prices that are much more stable than the volatile energy prices associated with fossil fuels. So so that is the kind of longer term solution that we're looking to hear. And I said the word distributed earlier. And distributed. So here in Canada, and in most parts of North America, we're used to energy generation happening kind of far away from where we live, right? It's like big coal plants, big natural gas plants that are far away from where we live. And we don't really see them operate very often. And there's huge long transmission lines that get it to our neighborhoods, and then big distribution networks that get it to our homes. With renewable energy, we have the we have the potential to to bring that generation closer to where we need it, where we actually need the end product of the energy. And that can really help build more resilient energy systems as well, because the energy doesn't have as far to go. It's closer to where the demand is. And we maybe have, you know, instead of relying on this one source of energy, we have several sources of energy kind of in the neighborhood that we can be turning to. So So I think that's the Yeah, that's the really like, that's the crux of this kind of transition that we that we need to be going through and in the long run in the long run, that can really offer much lower and more stable energy prices for people. But unfortunately, we've heard a lot of misguided or I think, intentionally misrepresented rhetoric around renewable energy and it having a high cost. And the only reason that that it appears to have a high cost is because fossil fuel energy has been subsidized so heavily for the last century by governments that those fossil fuels tend to have an artist officially lower cost, but we are paying for that artificially lower cost as taxpayers. And so part of the equation here is is leveling out the playing field between fossil fuels and renewable energy by supporting the growth of renewable energy and stopping subsidies to fossil fuels.   Dan Seguin  20:20 Okay, as a customer focus company, Hydro Ottawa understands price and affordability sensitivities. What's your view on how we can meet the massive challenge of decarbonisation of our energy system without creating hardships for some?   Catherine Abreu  20:37 Yeah, there are a lot of models that I think we can learn from around the world. And actually, right here in Canada, there are some really precedent setting models in provinces across this country, to address the concerns around energy affordability, while also carrying on with this very necessary energy system training and session that we have. So a part of how you do that, number one, I mentioned energy efficiency earlier, you can turn energy efficiency into a tool to save people money, and you can target that tool to the people who need it the most. So I a large part of my background, and all my Canadian family is in Nova Scotia. And there is this amazing energy efficiency utility in that province called efficiency, Nova Scotia that are efficiency, why now? but previously efficiency, Nova Scotia, and where they have dedicated programs that go into low income communities that go into renter communities, and help those households reduce their energy consumption, and save money on their energy bills. So that's one. And the other one we can think about is how we allow communities that are currently marginalized in our economic system to profit from the renewable energy revolution, whether that profit is in like hard financial terms, so they're actually going to make some money from it, or in reducing embedded energy costs in those communities. At so here in Canada, we actually already see that about 20% of renewable energy projects are owned by and operating in indigenous communities. And that's huge and exciting, because those communities have often run on, you know, their energy systems are often run on very expensive energy sources like diesel that are very polluting and unhealthy for those communities. And, and often those communities don't have access to economic, the same kinds of economic opportunities as others. And so seeing indigenous communities really lead the charge on renewable energy development in Canada is exciting, because it's bringing prosperity into those communities, it's bringing energy autonomy to those communities, it's giving them something that they can be training community members to do, you know, so it's job creating. So that's another one. And then I'll give one other example. In California, we have this really interesting model where when they introduced their cap and trade system, their carbon pricing system, they said, We're gonna take a portion of the money that we get from this carbon pricing system. And we are going to make sure that lower income households throughout California, have solar panels on their roofs. And we're going to pay for that to happen. And those households in those communities, instead of now getting a check, you know, so here in Canada, our carbon pricing system sends a check to everyone across the country. And that's useful. But in California, we see this model where it's like, instead of getting a check, I have an energy source embedded into my house at no cost, to me, that's substantially lowers my household energy costs. And so I maybe I'm not getting a check every month, but my energy costs every month are eliminated. And so I have much more income at my disposal, because I'm not spending that income on energy. And that I think, is a really powerful model that it would be interesting to think through applying here in Canada. How do we use some of this revenue that we're getting from carbon pricing to make sure that we're addressing energy affordability and the communities that need that?   Dan Seguin  24:26 I'm sure you're aware, there's an incredible amount of momentum around netzero pledges in the public sector governments from around the world and private sector as well. What are your thoughts around these Net Zero commitments from organizations? Is it spin or substance?   Catherine Abreu  24:45 Net-zero by 2050 isn't putting action off until three decades from now? net-zero by 2050 requires concerted action planning activity that starts right now ideally, that started a decade ago and continues on every day between now and 2050.   Dan Seguin  25:05 Canada comes in for criticism for its weak follow up so far on carbon targets. What do you say to Canadians who are skeptical about sufficient action not being taken fast enough?   Catherine Abreu  25:20 Your skepticism is warranted, first of all. Yeah, I mean, it's so unfortunate, right, Canada's really never met a carb climate target, it couldn't miss. We've been setting climate targets since the early 1990s. We haven't met a single one at this point. And I'm really hoping that we can correct for that trend, by using tools that we now have at our disposal, through things like Bill C 12, the netzero Accountability Act, which is a relatively new piece of legislation, just about a year old in Canada. That brings some consistency and some transparency to the climate planning process in Canada. Because this is part of the problem in this country. Our climate planning has been totally ad hoc, so far, right. So we get a government that maybe cares about climate change, maybe they make a commitment on climate emissions reductions, maybe they follow through with that commitment, maybe we hear about how they're doing. Instead, we need this piece of legislation that tells us, okay, every five years, you're going to set a target. By the time you set a target, you have to produce a plan to meet that target within six months. Here's the external expert group that's going to review your plans, going to review your progress, make sure you're on track, make recommendations for how to course correct if you're not make recommendations for how to improve policy, find new opportunities to address emissions while continuing to grow the economy. And this is the model that we've seen employed in other jurisdictions that have been more successful in meeting their climate targets like the UK. So I feel buoyed by the fact and I was I was a big part of the fight to get Bill C 12. passed, it's not perfect, but I think it's a it's a really huge improvement in Canada's climate planning process. So I think we can feel buoyed by that. And that being said, governments across the board have been failing us have been failing their populations, on delivering the scale of ambition that's required to meet this crisis. And I think the thing that we have to do as individuals, if we are feeling concern and despair about that, is we have to activate as political citizens and demand from our political decision makers that they deliver on that scale of action. And I think that's maybe something that we're just coming to here in Canada, unfortunately, climate change has been a rather a rather politically polarized conversation in this country so far. But we're finally getting to a place where every party, regardless of of their of their political identity, understands the climate crisis is a serious issue, and they have to address it. And they need to be hearing from their voters, that their vote is going to be cast according to whether that party is doing what it takes to address this crisis. So So I would say that's it, like, let's have those legislative frameworks in place, let's make sure they're working. Let's make sure you know, we're engaging the independent expertise that we need to assess that. And let's, as a constituency as concerned citizens in this country, let us demand from our political decision makers, that they take the action that's required.   Dan Seguin  28:34 Okay, Catherine, to accelerate success, what are the countries that should Canada be looking to emulate or to learn from?   Catherine Abreu  28:43 There are lessons that I think we can learn from so many places, and, and likewise, there are a lot of other places I think can learn from us, right? We have we also have some good expertise to be sharing at this point. But I mentioned the UK earlier, I think we've really turned to the UK a lot to help us think through this new piece of legislation because the UK was the first to pass climate accountability legislation way back in 2008. And so they've really helped to model that, that system for the rest of the world. And there are now close to 30 jurisdictions around the world that have very similar systems, actually. So we just saw at COP 26, in Glasgow in November, that a consortium like now a global consortium of independent climate expert bodies has been created to to help continue this dialogue around how we actually hold countries accountable for their climate commitments. So that's, I think, a good one and we can also keep looking to the UK for how we detach our our economic growth, our GDP from greenhouse gas emissions because they have been incredibly successful in doing that in the UK. And that has been a big part of how they have been able to their climate commitments they they successfully decoupled their GDP from GHGs. And we are kind of approaching that point in Canada. But we need to kind of surpass it and make sure that our economic prosperity is not tied to increasing emissions. And that I think, has maybe been a bit of a challenge for a country like Canada that is traditionally very natural resource based, and and very oriented toward exploiting and exporting those natural resources, which is, which tends to be very carbon intensive. So so that economic transformation piece, how are we diversifying our economy? How are we investing in those sectors that are going to deliver prosperity, and we often think about those sectors as like, renewable energy. So we do this, like, we're moving from fossil fuel energy to renewable energy. So all the new prosperity and all the new jobs are going to be in renewable energy. But we can also think about sectors like the care economy, hospitals, nurses, long term care facilities, those are generally low carbon industries, right. And so and we know that we need to invest in them on the heels of the COVID-19 crisis. So we can be investing there. And of course, what that all comes along with is this question of just transition, how are we taking care of people and communities as we engage in this economic transformation, and they're really cool lessons that we can learn from other jurisdictions, they're like Scotland, they have done some really amazing work with just transition as they move away from coal. Similarly, in South Africa, we actually again at COP 26, in Glasgow saw this $8.5 billion deal struck with South Africa between a number of other countries, the US, EU, Germany, to support their just transition away from coal dependence. So I think we can also be looking to these other examples of economic diversification and just transition in parts of the world to inform the really necessary economic transition that we that we need to undertake here in Canada and the planning for that.   Dan Seguin  32:12 In Canada, where do you see the biggest opportunity to reduce greenhouse emissions in nature? And where do you see the biggest opportunity in technology?   Catherine Abreu  32:24 Yeah, so we have talked about this a little bit already. And I think those agricultural opportunities are really huge here in Canada, what we haven't really talked about is, is the devastation that we are seeing wrecked in our natural ecosystems, particularly in forests across Canada. And it's actually hard for me not to get really emotional when I think about it. And, and we have really seen, I think, I think many Canadians, if they, if they think about climate change, if they think about carbon sources and sinks in Canada, they assume that our forests are carbon sinks. And in fact, that has not been the case for several years now, our forests in Canada have really turned from carbon sinks, places that can store greenhouse gas emissions to carbon sources. And that is largely because of ongoing deforestation. And the devastating impacts of climate change that, that bring forest fires that bring, you know, more extreme weather events and also bring pests like the pine beetle. So I think a big part of where we need to be focusing our energy right now in Canada is, is figuring out how to reverse that trend, how to protect our forests, how to restore them, and unnecessary deforestation, deforestation. And, you know, I think a really groundbreaking report that came out this year was on indigenous stewardship of lands and how much lands that are stewarded by indigenous peoples around the world. They really outperform lands that are stewarded by by settler populations in terms of carbon sink potential and biodiversity protection. And so I think actually, a big part of the solution on the forest front here in Canada, is increasing the amount of forests that are stewarded by indigenous communities. So that's on the on the nature front, in terms of carbon reduction potential in technologies, or in the industrial sector, you know, the big elephant in the room and Canada's oil and gas sector. It's the largest and fastest growing source of emissions in the country, it's responsible for over a quarter of emissions in Canada outweighs any other sector in the country. And while we have been actually seeing significant emissions reductions in other sectors, you know, the Canadian electricity sector has reduced its emissions over 30% in the in the last couple of decades, right. So, you know, we've been seeing decarbonisation happen, it hasn't been happening as fast as it needs to, but it has been happening in electricity and buildings and transportation, well, not so much in transportation. I'll take that again, we have been seeing decarbonizing, it hasn't happening as fast as it needs to, but it has been happening and the electricity system and the building system. Meanwhile, we really haven't seen that happening in the oil and gas sector. In fact, emissions from the oil and gas sector have increased exponentially in the last 15 years. And so there's a huge potential for emissions reductions in that sector. And a lot of it involves methane reduction, by applying technologies that we have that we know work right now, that can actually create jobs well, while we apply them, and thinking through how we address our production trends to reduce those emissions. And we actually have now a promise from the federal government to cap emissions in the oil and gas sector and set reduction targets every five years. So I think that's a really good move in the right direction.   Dan Seguin  36:10 Now, in your opinion, Catherine, what can government's learn from environmental advocacy and activism?   Catherine Abreu  36:17 What can the government learn? I mean, obviously, there's so I think, like, what is it that you picture when you picture environmental advocacy and activism? Probably you picture people on the streets, right, the huge demonstrations that characterize the fall of 2019, when, you know, half a million people were on the streets of Montreal, and Greta Thunberg, spoke to the crowd there. You know, protests against fossil fuel infrastructure, the, you know, struggles that we're seeing in communities like what su attend right now against the coastal gaslink. That community really trying to protect their traditional territory and say no to more fossil fuel infrastructure. So I think that's really what comes to mind a lot of the time. But in fact, environmental advocacy and activism has a huge diversity of tactics associated with it, right. So there are a lot of really brilliant people who are also thinking through some of these creative solutions that we need to these tricky problems that we have to solve to address the climate crisis. So a lot of what governments can learn from environmental advocacy and activism is actually like really practical hands on ideas for how we tackle this crisis. And but maybe I'll maybe I'll take this answer in a different direction, and say that part of what we can learn is, is action, in the midst of despair. And I think we often ask ourselves, like, how do we have hope, when we're seeing the escalating impacts of the climate crisis, when we're watching the people we love and the places that we cherish, be so hurt by climate change? How do we in the face of that kind of despair? Respond? How do we have hope people talk about hope all the time. But what I often say is, you know, the, the antidote to despair is not hope, it's action. And the environmental community is all about action. That's, that's really what causes a lot of us to this work is the desire to stand in the face of despair, sand in the face of these devastating climate impacts, and do everything we can to mitigate some of the worst impacts of the climate crisis and figure out how we can build resilience and communities against those impacts. So I think maybe that's the that's the thing that I hand to governments is to say, we all need to be in this together that is the spirit of the environmental movement. And we need to be taking action despite the the challenge despite the scale of the crisis, despite the despair we might be feeling. And in fact that action is is what helps us pull ourselves out of that feeling of despair.   Dan Seguin  39:02 Is there an organization activist or movement that is inspiring you?   Catherine Abreu  39:07 This has been my entire career working in this space and I wouldn't have been able to make it my career if I didn't feel inspired every day by my colleagues and amazing community that I get to be a part of, so it's hard to name any one organization or any one movement. I will say that I am so continuously blown away and touched by the fierce and unrelenting advocacy we see from young people and you know, so we've seen the school strike groups fighting for future and young people mobilizing in various configurations to demand a livable future for themselves and their children. And, and that is I think something that gives a lot of us that lifts up a lot of us and gives us a lot have energy to continue our work. Because really, I was reading this Twitter thread the other day, and the author said, we are fighting because our future is shrinking. And it was, it was so read, it resonated so much to hear that it's true, right? I think for a lot of young people, the possibilities that they envision for themselves in the future, are getting smaller and smaller. And we, as a society, as a species, we need to be thinking about how we expand that future. Again, how we, how we invest right now to make sure that the people who are alive after after you and I are gone. Have all of the options all of the rich life that we have been able to, to explore. So So yeah, maybe I'll say that is that I feel inspired by so many organizations by so much of the movement and the passion, the intelligence is coming from young people right now it's giving I think a lot of us a lot of strength.   Dan Seguin  41:06 Okay, Catherine, how about you close us off with some rapid fire questions? Are you ready?   Catherine Abreu  41:13 I'm ready.   Dan Seguin  41:15 No, Catherine, what is your favorite word?   Catherine Abreu  41:18 'Why?' it's my favorite word, my favorite question. And I'm happy that I really hope I never stop asking it.   Dan Seguin  41:25 Now, what is one thing you can't live without?   Catherine Abreu  41:29 Maybe I'll say my friend, my dog, Fred Pico. He's my nice constant companion and I wouldn't want to live without.   Dan Seguin  41:37 What is something that challenges you?   Catherine Abreu  41:39 I feel challenged by the reluctance that we see from governments to take action. And I feel challenged by that all the time. And we are constantly being told we have the solutions we need, we have the technologies. And the one thing standing in our way is political will. So I feel challenged by that. And that challenge is what brings me to work every day.   Dan Seguin  42:03 Now, if you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Catherine Abreu  42:06 This is a really important question. I have often said that my superpower would be to find the finest party wherever I am always. But I think I'm actually pretty good at that already. So maybe I would, say that I would love to have the power to aperate. So I would love to be able to just appear wherever I wanted to whenever I wanted to.   Dan Seguin  42:30 If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self, what would you tell her,   Catherine Abreu  42:35 I would tell her that she's on the right track, and that her future is not going to look maybe exactly as she pictured it. But that her instinct to really give back to her community and invest in the people around her is going to lead her in the right direction.   Dan Seguin  42:51 And lastly, Catherine, what do you currently find most interesting in your world in your sector?   Catherine Abreu  42:58 That's a really good one. Um, so here's the thing. I actually think a lot of the time are my world that my sector is characterized by kind of like cynicism. And, and certainly a lot of us bring some cynicism to the mix. It's hard not to give in the state of the world. But I would say there's actually this interesting renewed optimism in my world right now, particularly on the heels of COP 26. And that's because it really does seem like the conversation is shifting. And we're starting to talk about the real things right now we're getting down to it. And a big part of that is actually that we're talking seriously about the energy transition. Finally, because this energy transition is the thing that's going to unlock our ability to address the climate crisis, and we need to accelerate that global energy transition. The final plenary at COP 26 All the countries of the world together in a room. It was about it was a debate. It was an hour's long debate about the energy transition. And that's huge, because we actually haven't seen as much direct talk about energy at cops in the past. So that's an interesting thing that's going on. I think a lot of us are actually feeling a little more hopeful that we're finally having these this real talk. So let's let's make sure it gets us to where we need to go.   Dan Seguin  44:18 Well, Catherine, this is it. We've reached the end of another episode of The thinkenergy podcast I truly loved and enjoyed our conversation today. If our listeners want to learn more about you and your organization, how can they connect?   Catherine Abreu  44:33 I've just started a pretty new organization called Destination Zero. And you can find us as destinationzero.Earth, that website is in development but you'll have a landing page right there that gives you my contact information and on Twitter, I'm @catabreu_   Dan Seguin  44:50 Again, thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you had a lot of fun.   Catherine Abreu  44:55 I really don't think so much Daniel.   Dan Seguin  44:58 Thanks for tuning in for anotherepisode of The thinkenergy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review where ever you're listening. And to find out more about today's guests or previous episodes, visit thinkenergypodcast.com. I hope you'll join us again next time as we spark even more conversations about the energy of tomorrow.
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Jan 3, 2022 • 25min

Uber’s Zero-Emissions Future with Matthew Price

Cost, inventory, and access to charging stations are major barriers when making the jump to an electric vehicle. In fact, 71% of Uber drivers across Canada said they’re interested in making the switch, but these factors are holding them back. Uber’s Matthew Price joins Dan Séguin and Rebecca Schwartz for an in-depth look at what the company is doing to help make electric vehicles more accessible to their drivers—and Canadians. Related Content and Links Matthew Price’s Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewprice3/ --- Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:06 This is thinkenergy. The podcast that helps you better understand the fast changing world of energy through conversations with game changers, industry leaders, and influencers. So join me, Dan Seguin, and my co host Rebecca Schwartz, as we explore both traditional and unconventional facets of the energy industry. In this episode, we'll do a deep dive with Uber and discover how they plan to reduce their carbon footprint. I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  00:39 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz. Hey, Dan, have you ever noticed how quickly language changes seemingly overnight? In 2021 words, like Doom-scrolling and adulting were added to the dictionary? While, words like salty were updated with new definitions.   Dan Seguin  00:55 Wait, what salty? What the blank does salty mean now?   Rebecca Schwartz  01:00 Well, it's a term for being bitter, angry or resentful. Like, Dan, don't be salty!   Dan Seguin  01:07 I don't think so. I'm in a great mood. Cool. Anyways, what about popular phrases? The perfect example: It wasn't that long ago, we used to say, let's call a cab. Now it's, let's order an Uber. Between 2017 and 2019, nearly 4 billion rides were taken using Uber in the US and Canada alone. In fact, Uber is the largest mobility platform in the world.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:41 Well, as an avid user myself, there is no question that ride sharing companies like Uber have disrupted the transportation space, providing convenience, accessibility and affordability to riders in nearly every major city around the world. Collectively, ride sharing companies have transformed how we move and commute in our cities, to the point that some critics believe people are foregoing lower carbon forms of transportation, like public transit, biking and walking, resulting in 69% more climate pollution. And that's according to the Union of Concerned Scientists.   Dan Seguin  02:18 With the Canadian government's promise to be zero carbon by 2050. And transportation currently accounted for 28% of Canada's greenhouse gas emissions, there's another disruption and culture shift coming. Recently, Uber released its climate assessment and performance report to address how it plans to aggressively tackle climate change and the missions its business produces,   Rebecca Schwartz  02:44 adopting the mantra that with great power comes great responsibility. Uber is aiming to be an environmental leader and game changer in the mobility and ride sharing space. So here's today's big question: stating that it will be a zero emissions platform by 2040, what are some of the innovative strategies and incentives Uber is introducing to address its carbon footprint?   Dan Seguin  03:07 I'm really interested to talk about what those are in today's show with our very special guest, Matthew Price. Matthew is the general manager of Uber Canada. During Matthew's time at Uber, he helped lead its transformation in Europe, across 15 countries for some of Uber's most strategic cross functional programs. Bonjour Matthew, welcome to the show, perhaps you could start us off by telling us a bit more about yourself and your role at Uber,   Matthew Price  03:38 well, Bonjour and thank you for having me on today. So I'm Matthew price, proud Canadian sustainability enthusiast, and also the general manager of Uber Canada. I joined Uber back in 2015, based in Europe, so a front row seat to how this topic has evolved across that continent helping to implement many of Ubers early policies in terms of driving the green resolution there. And then the privilege then to come back to Canada in 2019. To take on this role, and you know, help Uber start its journey to Mission Zero in Canada. So in my role, I'm responsible for our vision and strategy, the overall performance of our business health of our team and you know, importantly, the customer experience both both riders and drivers.   Rebecca Schwartz  04:22 Thanks, Matthew. Now, can you tell us more about Uber green, and the uptake thus far by customers?   Matthew Price  04:28 Absolutely. So Uber green is our low emissions, right option, electric or hybrid. It is in 16 cities across Canada today. And as an Uber user, you can effectively select Uber green in your app. To request that hybrid or electric ride. It's $1 more than than your Uber X ride, but you're getting to experience something very different. We made a commitment at Uber to be fully emissions zero by 2030. And cities that have supportive policies and 2040 everywhere, globally. In this uber Green was one of our first actions to actually make the commitment a reality. And I will say, I do think, you know, we in ride sharing are really at the next frontier, and can have a real impact here in catalyzing this change. And let me just quickly tell you why. You know, as you might know, gas powered vehicles account for about three quarters of greenhouse gas emissions to transportation and cities today. But not all of those cars are created equal ride sharing drivers use their vehicles much more than your average car owner. And in fact, if, if a driver makes a switch to electric vehicle, you see three to four times greater emission savings compared to your average car. So if you think of the millions of drivers that we as Uber have on the streets across the world, if even a small portion of those drivers make the switch to Go Electric, that's a huge push to getting zero emission transportation off the ground. And importantly, contributing to the scale, that's going to be required to bring down the cost of vehicles and increase the availability of charging, which will we'll talk a lot more about here today.   Rebecca Schwartz  06:01 Alright, so has this resulted in an uptake for drivers to transition to electric vehicles?   Matthew Price  06:07 so drivers that come to our platform with electric vehicle, they have an opportunity to earn $1 more on any trip they take. And if it's an Uber green trip $1.50 More, which at scale is a significant increase in earnings, which, as we know, is really important when it comes to electric vehicles. Because these cars, these vehicles are still, you know, more expensive today than your your internal combustion vehicle. But at the same time, as I mentioned, there are real barriers here in terms of the cost and access to the vehicle and the availability of charging, which is why it's going to take partnership across the ecosystem to drive the uptake that we all want to see. And and I'll give you example of one of the things that we're doing there to make that happen. And I'm really proud to say we just announced yesterday, the following, which is we did a survey of drivers in Canada, 71% of them are interested in switching to electric vehicle, which is big, but you also hear from them that charging is a significant barrier. So we announced a partnership yesterday with Green Lots, which is a member of the shell group to actually create three new charging stations in Vancouver. That's one of the leading EV markets in North America for Uber. And effectively this is Ubers first exclusive partnership across North America to give drivers and delivery people access to fast charging, and access to fast charging at a discounted rate that will make it cheaper than charging at their home. So it's a pilot. It's a blueprint, but it is the type of thing that we need to replicate across Canada and globally to drive that uptake in terms of drivers transitioning to electric vehicles.   Dan Seguin  07:38 That's really interesting, Matthew. Now, Uber recently published its climate assessment and performance report. What were the biggest takeaways from the report? And was there anything that surprised you from the data?   Matthew Price  07:53 Yeah, let me let me talk you through a couple of the key insights in that report. So the first one is that the efficiency of trips with Uber actually improve as ridership grows, let me let me explain what that means, which is from 2017 to the end of 2019. Our average active much monthly ridership, it grew by 36%. But carbon intensity declined by 6%. If you look at that, that three year period, the efficiency improvement results in about a half million metric tons of avoided CO2 and 56 million gallons of gasoline conserved. Interestingly, though, the performance is even more efficient in cities. So you know, again, if you look at the 2019, the carbon intensity of rides in our top 10 metros across North America was about five and a half percent lower than Uber average. And even lower if you look at the the largest cities. But the last thing I'll say there is that we found and reported there that Uber drivers, on average, use hybrid vehicles about five and a half times more than your average car. And that speaks to what I mentioned before in terms of, you know, transitioning one Uber driver into an electric or in this case, a hybrid vehicle has an outsized impact in terms of taking, taking dirty miles and putting clean miles on our streets. I will say the other thing in there is we've referenced a number of policies that we think are going to be important to to kind of accelerate the, the revolution here towards green. Things like increasing the quality and availability of local transit, micro mobility infrastructure, we should talk a bit about that road pricing that includes all vehicles, increasing drivers access to cleaner and electric vehicles, as well as charging availability. And that all really helped inform the actions that we've taken as an organization to work towards the 2030/2040 goal.   Rebecca Schwartz  09:54 Okay, so as a global company with a global impact. I've read that you're developing some innovative strategies to be a zero emission platform by 2040. Can you tell us what are some of those strategies and how you guys plan to get there?   Matthew Price  10:10 Would love to and I touched on a few but but let me let me elaborate. So the way we think about it is, you know, commitments, one thing has to be coupled with action. And there's four key actions that that we're taking. So, you know, the first I've already spoken about, which is expanding ubergreen, you know, and that's gonna give consumers those of us that don't own electric vehicle today an opportunity to experience what it's like, which I think is going to be really important to letting people experience the magic that is an electric vehicle and kind of have that motivate their own choices moving forward. The second one is helping drivers then transition to electric vehicles, we definitely don't have as many on the streets as we need today to service the demand that's there for green. I mentioned green lights already as one way we're doing this. Another instance here, for example, is we have a partnership with General Motors to offer all eligible Uber drivers, effectively the employee discount on a Chevy bolt, which is important to bring down the upfront cost, which which we know is high. And you know, this is important, in addition to federal funding that is that is currently available. We are also investing in our multimodal network. So I mentioned this a moment ago, what that means is, it's going to take more than just offering electric vehicles to fully get to our sustainability goals, we also need to drive mode shifting, which means we need to integrate lime into our app, we've actually done this in Ottawa, where you can now get E bikes and scooters through the Uber app. And we need more partnerships with local transit authorities to give you information and help you figure out how to combine Uber with transit to get to where you need to go. And the last thing I'll say here is we need to be accountable. The Climate report we just talked about is one step in that direction. But it's really just the start, we want to bring our data to the public to the table to discuss how we do this because this is a team sport, we cannot do this alone, it is going to take private and public industry coming together and working towards what I think we all think is a common goal.   Dan Seguin  12:11 Now, Matthew, what are some of the biggest barriers and challenges you've identified in your roadmap to zero emissions?   Matthew Price  12:19 So I've touched on a couple, let me quickly reiterate those and I'll add a couple more. So I mean, when when we talk to drivers, again, 70% of what you're interested, it is the cost and the access to the vehicle, keeping in mind that the inventory is not there today for people who want the vehicles. And then it's the the access to charging. In fact, there's a study that came out of California not long ago, that shows unfortunately, one in four electric vehicle drivers switch back to a gas car because of how painful it is to charge which is a problem. So So you know, against those I mentioned earlier that, you know, part of evergreen is about people getting to experience what an electric vehicle is, today electric vehicle is is often, you know, a luxury for more wealthy households, often people kind of buying their second or third vehicle and having it be electric. But the data shows that, you know, every electric vehicle on our platform, on average touches 100 different riders. So you know, that gives a lot of people the opportunity to experience an electric ride. And the reason that's important is that scale is going to help kind of catalyze the shift, which means the scale will lead to more demand for vehicles and over time lower battery costs that bring down the cost. The scale off also offers the demand, that's going to be required to get the charging infrastructure to be installed and have the utilization required to make the economics work for those for those asset owners. So think that's really important. I mentioned earlier that it's going to take more than just private cars. So we need multimodal, we need the regulatory framework in place to roll out multimodal. And the one of the things I'll add to this, it's also about education. There's a lot of people, you know, who don't fully understand what an electric vehicle is what it's like to drive, one of the things we recently did was was rolled out an EV calculator, which means you can now go on and compare as an Uber driver, the cost of a current internal combustion versus electric vehicle through the lens of a driver, including all the subsidies and local benefits available to get a sense for what your total cost of ownership is and what it takes to get it on par. So as I've as I said here a couple times, early days on this journey, I think we know what the barriers are. We don't know how to address all of them, but we also know we're not gonna be able to do this alone.   Rebecca Schwartz  14:40 So Matthew, the integration of multimodal network is innovative, including the incorporation of public transit tickets, lime scooters, and bike rentals and even carpooling to help commuters get from point A to point B. So can you touch on these and tell us why this was the right step in Ubers evolution?   Matthew Price  15:00 Absolutely. And let me let me first talk a little bit more about transit. And I think about it like this today. Most people when they leave their house, they grab their keys, and I hop into their car. And we need to give Canadians something that for the first time is sufficiently convenient that they might consider doing something different, which needs to be more than just offering Uber X and Uber green. But it also needs to be offering new transit options, electric bike and scooter options to effectively help create, you know, a suite of solutions, that makes it more likely you're going to forego the car. And that's important because that car sits idle 95% of the time. And the other 5% is often in meeting carbon emissions with only one person in the vehicle. So the new thing we've done, just in the last few weeks, is rolled out for now just in the GTA, a product called Uber plus transit. And it's a combination of two of our existing products. Uber X and journey planning and how it works is when it convenient routes available, we will actually now help you find an Uber X to the closest transit stop, and then give you the information about how to get to your final destination using public transit. So it's you know, we find that unique ways to combine the two to get you where you want to go, sometimes faster, oftentimes cheaper. And we've integrated this with public transit across the GTA, we're watching the data very closely to see see how it performs. And definitely something we want to roll out across this country to continue to deepen the integration with with public transit, I think it's really, really important as part of the solution. And I think every everyone's you know, everyone, when going from point A to point B, you know, they're they're solving for a slightly different set of things. For some people, it's about what's the green assumption for some people, that's what's the fastest option for some people, it's what's the cheapest option. And you know, I want to I want to offer Canadians ways to solve for all of that, and ways to do it in the most environmentally conscious way.   Dan Seguin  17:00 Okay, Matthew, wondering if you could expand on key takeaways from your operations and the overall impact from this past year during shelter in place, and the golden age of food delivery?   Matthew Price  17:14 Yeah, I mean, we often get this question in terms of, you know, look, you made this, this this commitment to be zero emissions in late 2020. You know, why then? you know, when and, you know, for us COVID-19 was not a barrier, a challenge, it was actually the catalyst to do this. And the reason and we all saw this was for a period of time there, when we looked at our window, we saw our cities breathing again, for the first time, and if you look at the data, carbon emissions, were actually down for a period of time, as we were all sheltering in place. You know, as the industry leader in Canada, we knew we had an obligation, we have responsibility to take advantage of a moment like that, and figuring out how we can build back better, very much aligned to, you know, the leadership, our Canadian government, shown, very much aligned to the Paris Climate Agreement. And that really spawned the commitment around sustainability. And, and the beginning of that, of course, very focused throughout the pandemic, on helping Canadians in need move safely. In terms of helping, you know, drivers find a flexible earning opportunity that for many people was was necessary during, you know, a really big economic crisis. But, you know, we kept the sustainability aspirations front and center. And I'm really pleased, this is one of the ways that we are building back better. And, you know, in some sense of silver lining for what's been a really, really difficult time for all of us over the last 18 months.   Rebecca Schwartz  18:44 Okay, let's talk about government and industry partnerships, including Ubers advocacy for key policy reform, what are some of the changes you'd like to see in these new collaborations for the transportation sector?   Matthew Price  18:57 There's no silver bullet here. And, you know, it's going to take all parties coming together, you know, solving for our common goal as, as Canadians and what is the biggest challenge of our generation, in terms of how to make this this kind of low carbon future a reality. There's a long list of things here at the federal level, at the provincial level, at the municipal level. I'll say to that, I think are particularly important to, you know, how we catalyze a lot of what we've talked about here from using ride sharing as a way to share this. You know, one, we've talked about it, we think Uber green is really important in terms of, you know, helping people experience electric, which will help people upgrade to their own electric vehicle will help create some of the the demand required to bring down the cost to make this happen. There's ways that cities can incentivize the use of Uber green. You know, what we've seen in a number of cities, Vancouver's done it. In fact, Pearson airports done it, is they've actually reduced the per trip fee on zero emission vehicles, which makes it for you as a rider cheaper to take to take a green truck. And I do think, you know, there's there's an opportunity to do more of that, to help to to, to, you know, enable that part of what's going to be a key part of the the transition. I think the other thing is, you know, there's real opportunities for us to work as a, you know, ride sharing and taxi industry to think about how to do this in the right way. And you know, very much encouraging cities across the country to create a vehicle for higher working group, bring the right stakeholders to the table, that's going to be all levels of government, it's going to be the private transport companies, taxi companies, utilities, others, and let's talk about things like what are the barriers? And really specific barriers in that specific city? what are best practices we can bring from other jurisdictions? What's the roadmap to get there? There's no silver bullet, as I said, off the top. But, you know, it's these types of things, often with government leading, supported by organizations like ours that will get us to where we need to be.   Dan Seguin  21:10 And Matthew, does Canada's commitment to zero carbon by 2050 make collaboration easier compared to other countries?   Matthew Price  21:18 I think the answer to that is absolutely. We need that constructive relationship we talked about with local government, there's no other way to do it. And very much seen that and I'm just really pleased and proud as a Canadian to see our government leading in the space. You know, partnerships, like what I've talked about here with Greenlaw are going to be key. The way we kind of take that blueprint and expanded across the country is in part with government helping to pave the way.   Dan Seguin  21:45 Now in Canada, more than 3 million people use Uber regularly across 18 cities. I'm curious about Ottawa, what is your data telling you about our mobility habits?   Matthew Price  21:58 happy to share some data on on Ottawa, one of our early Canadian cities that we that we brought Uber to, I'll tell you the following. So most most trips in Ottawa happened during commuting times. 8am 4pm To be specific, and of course, on weekends. I can tell you that the people of Ottawa had a lot of fun on Halloween, a really big spike over Halloween weekend. And some of the top destinations in Ottawa are the Rideau center ByWard Market area, Elgin street downtown, via rail station and TD place stadium. Ottawa is a really, really important city for us. And one, you know, in particular, where we are excited to partner with all levels of government and, you know, organizations such as hydro Ottawa, to to make this green future reality.   Rebecca Schwartz  22:51 Okay, Matthew, we're coming to the end. So how about we close off with some rapid fire questions? Are you ready? What is your favorite word?   Matthew Price  23:01 Oh, hello. Maybe that's my most frequent word. If nothing else,   Rebecca Schwartz  23:08 tell us one thing you absolutely cannot live without?   Matthew Price  23:11 music.   Rebecca Schwartz  23:13 What is something that challenges you?   Matthew Price  23:15 I would say how to integrate work and life. I love both sides of that equation so much. There's only so much time in a day and how you balance the two continues to be a real challenge for me.   Rebecca Schwartz  23:26 If you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Matthew Price  23:29 I would love the ability to pause time and lengthen those kinds of special moments are busy workdays to get a bit more.   Rebecca Schwartz  23:39 Now let's say you were talking to your 18 year old self, what would you tell him?   Matthew Price  23:44 Life is short. And there's no substitute for passion and doing things that you love.   Rebecca Schwartz  23:49 And lastly, what do you find most interesting in your sector right now.   Matthew Price  23:54 This one probably won't be a surprise given the conversation we just had. But I think ride sharing it's fundamentally changed how people move around our cities. I think the next frontier is for ride sharing to fundamentally catalyze this electric revolution.   Dan Seguin  24:07 Well, Matthew, we've reached the end of another episode of The think energy podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you had a lot of fun.   Matthew Price  24:17 I did indeed. It was great to meet you both. Thank you for having me on and all the good work you're doing to to help make Ottawa a green city.   Dan Seguin  24:28 Thanks for tuning in for another episode of The thinkenergy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review whereever you're listening. And to find out more about today's guest or previous episodes, visit thinkenergypodcast.com I hope you will join us again next time as we spark even more conversations about the energy of tomorrow.
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Dec 20, 2021 • 23min

Podcasts of Holiday Past, Present and Future

This week, we have a special holiday episode of the ThinkEnergy podcast. Inspired by one of our favourite Christmas movies, A Christmas Carol, we’re here to present some podcast “ghosts” of past, present and future. Get ready to buckle up because we’re going on an adventure to recap three of our top episodes from 2021. Related Content & Links:  Second Harvest - https://secondharvest.ca  --- Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:53 Ho, ho, ho, everyone. Welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast and I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:00 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz.   Dan Seguin  01:02 This week, we have a very special holiday episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast, inspired by one of my favorite Christmas movies, A Christmas Carol. We're here to present some podcast ghosts of the past, the present, and future.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:23 Ooh, podcast ghost - sounds spooky. Should we be worried? What do you have in store for us, Dan?   Dan Seguin  01:30 That just building some suspense for you. But get ready to buckle up? Because we're going on an adventure to recap three of the top episodes from this year.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:42 I'm ready. Dan, where should we start?   Dan Seguin  01:44 Let's start with the Ghost of Christmas Past. In the movie, the ghost represents memory. So let's take a trip down memory lane to our episode on how Ontario used to burn coal as an energy source: A reminder of how far we've come in the energy industry to clean up our energy supply mix. Back in 2003 25% of electricity in Ontario came from coal plants. Did you know cold emissions were a major source of air pollution that contributed to 53 smog days in Ontario alone in 2005. That same year, my great City of Ottawa had 25. For those that may not know smog days would be declared in the province on days when the air wasn't as safe to breathe. Due to the amount of toxins in the air in 2014. Ontario was the first jurisdiction in North America to completely eliminate coal as a source of electricity production. According to air quality, Ontario, the province phased out of coal has been considered to have achieved the most significant results of any climate change initiative in North America to date. Now, today 94% of electricity generated in Ontario is emission free, and those smog advisories are all but a thing of the past. There's no doubt that Ontario has been a leader in fighting climate change and investing in cleaner energy sources. By 2030. Canada will phase out traditional coal fired electricity in the country altogether, striving to have 90% of electricity from non emitting sources, and simultaneously cutting carbon pollution from the electricity sector by 12 point 8 million tons.   Rebecca Schwartz  03:48 This is a great reminder. What did our guest or should I say ghost have to say about this transition away from coal in this episode?   Dan Seguin  03:56 I'm glad you asked Rebecca. Here's what Gideon Foreman had to say:   Gideon Forman  04:02 In terms of the impacts. The biggest impact that we talked about now is the climate impact. The coal plants at their height were the equivalent of millions of cars on our roads. When we took the coal plants out it was like removing 6 million cars from Ontario's roads. So they were a very, very significant source of greenhouse gases. And they also produced other things that were toxic things like mercury, for example, and arsenic. So they were also a significant source of human health problems. They made asthma worse, what they call the particulate matter in smog. Some of that came from coal plants and particulate matter is a factor in lung cancer. So a number of different ailments were connected to the coal plants.   Dan Seguin  04:47 And here's what he said about the case for eliminating coal fired electricity in Ontario.   Gideon Forman  04:53 The Case for closing the coal plants was that they were just a massive, massive source of greenhouse gas emissions and other contributors to pollution, things like nitrous oxides and sulfur oxide, sulfur dioxide. So they were contributing to climate change, they were contributing to acid rain, and they were contributing to human illness on a very big scale. And the other reason that it made sense to close them was it was something doable. In Ontario, because they were publicly owned, there was an opportunity to do it in quite a rapid and efficient manner. You know, in many places, coal plants are privately owned, in the United States, for example. And so if they're privately owned, it's very difficult to close them quickly. There's all sorts of issues around compensation and government has to step in. And it can be very complicated legally. But in Ontario, all the coal plants are owned by the government of Ontario. So the government of Ontario could close them basically through the stroke of a pen. And that's what happened, it was over a number of years. But that's what happened, the Ontario government decided that by 2014, they would no longer be coal used to produce electricity in the province. And that's what happened. So it was a matter of something that would have huge impact. And that was doable. That was kind of the thinking behind it. In terms of backlash, there wasn't a lot of backlash. There were some who raised concerns about the transition, loss of jobs for workers in the coal plants. There were some questions about electricity supply. But for the most part, I think there was a lot of public acceptance that we had to get off coal, this was something really good to do from an air quality point of view. And increasingly, from a climate change point of view. In terms of who drove the coal phase out, a lot of it was pushed by health professionals, the Ontario Medical Association, doctors, including some of the doctors that I work with, in physicians for the environment, nurses, Ontario, public health officials, medical officers of health, these sorts of people and family physicians, these sorts of people saw firsthand the effect of smog of bad air on people's lives. And they talked openly about it. And so was very much driven, I think, by the health professionals. I remember one time, Dan, when I was working with the physicians for environment, we we arranged a meeting to meet with the Minister of Environment for the province of Ontario and I brought in doctors I brought in nurses and we had an opportunity to talk across the table with the minister. And it was just fascinating for the Minister to see firsthand the effect of coal on people's lives in a very direct way. I remember one of our doctors from Kingston. She said, you know, Minister, there are times when the weather when the air quality is so poor, that my patients can't go outside, and I really worry for them. And if you close the coal plants, this would make a huge difference in the lives of my patients. And you could see the minister really connecting with that at a very human level. So it wasn't just an abstraction for our doctors. And so I think that was one of the driving forces behind the coal plant phase out.   Rebecca Schwartz  08:03 Boy, am I ever glad that smog warnings are now vague and distant memory. I'm so grateful for everyone who stood up for eliminating coal. It makes me excited for how much more we can do for a cleaner energy.   Dan Seguin  08:16 Now, are you ready for us to dive into the next one? This time, I have a podcast ghosts of Christmas present for you. Now this ghost represents generosity and goodwill. So the episode we'll be revisiting is The Birds and the Bees about Pollinator Meadows, where we chat about a sustainable approach to building out electrical infrastructure, one that supports the vegetation and wildlife. Did you know that across North America, the populations of Monarch butterflies, bees and other pollinators are in a steep decline due to herbicides, pesticides, climate change, and a reduction in natural pollinator habitats. pollinators are responsible for a third of the world's food supply, so they are extremely vital to our existence in Canada. There are more than 1000 species of pollinating animals that are responsible for billions of dollars worth of Canadian farm produce flowers, and ecosystems that rely on pollination. In short, without pollinators, food supply would suffer drastically. It may seem like an unlikely Union, but utilities like hydro Ottawa are ideally suited to restore these environments, thanks to a number of utility corridors and properties in their service territories, not to mention the kilometers of power lines and right aways along roadsides. Moreover, vegetation along utility corridors are compatible with these types of vegetation necessary to support pollinators. In 2019, hydro Ottawa began civil construction of its largest ever municipal transformer station in the south end of Ottawa, situated on 24 acres of land since the new transformer station requires only five acres of property, hydro Ottawa partnered with the city of Ottawa Rito Valley Conservation Authority and the Canadian Wildlife Federation to create one of the largest pollinator meadows of its kind in Eastern Ontario, adjacent to this future station. The agreement means that 15 acres will be dedicated to a pollinator meadow, which is scheduled for seeding. In the spring of 2021, a four acre tree reforestation area was reforested in 2020, with 2750 trees, thanks to the Rita River Conservation Authority. Tracy Etwell, a restoration ecologist with the Canadian Wildlife Federation, and Megan McDonald, Lake planning and shoreline stewardship coordinator for the Rideau Valley Conservation Authority. Join me for this episode to share what goes into a successful pollinator meadow and how we can as an industry, and as ordinary citizens generously help the movement by building more pollinator Meadows.   Tracy Etwell  11:39 Utilities are a key player in our pollinator restoration efforts as they maintain over 160,000 kilometers of transmission lines 1000s of generation stations across Canada, which has huge potential for pollinator habitat restoration, also their linear design are relatively easy for pollinators to find. Since utilities need to control the woody species over the long term along these facilities. It provides a great place for the wildflowers and grasses to grow. And it provides a great opportunity for utilities to demonstrate environmental leadership and provide the habitat. That's that's a win win for the utilities and the pollinators.  So the Canadian Wildlife Federation is committed to supporting pollinators for both our diverse biodiversity and our food supply. As you mentioned, many of the nutritious plants eat such as fruits and vegetables rely on insect pollination, and 90% of the world's flowering plants rely on insect pollination. So it's critical that as a global society, we support these insect pollinators. Now our project is focused on a variety of support such as technical expertise in building these meadows, increasing the native seed supply in Ontario, and providing case studies of the costs and benefits of restoring meadow habitat. We work with interested managers to develop their respective projects. And we've also only recently formed the Canadian branch of rights of way within the US rights of way habitat working group to enhance our network so that we have more access to resources, case studies and best practices.   Rebecca Schwartz  13:04 I love that utilities are working together with ecologists and stewardship coordinators to think outside the box and to discover new approaches that are environmentally sustainable. Birds and bees, while they may be small creatures, make our world a better place in so many ways. And I'm so glad that we're looking out for them. Thanks for another great recap, Dan. Tell us where are you leaving us for the podcast Ghost of Christmas Future.   Dan Seguin  13:31 So in the movie, The Ghost of Christmas Future represents something pretty grim. The fear of death.   Rebecca Schwartz  13:39 I forgot about that. I'm not sure I'm prepared for this now.   Dan Seguin  13:43 Nah, don't worry. The closest we've come to that theme on our podcast is probably our crisis communications episode. But I'd like to take a more uplifting approach and share the final recap that looks to the future through a positive lens. For this reason, my next and last podcast Ghost of Christmas Future is unlocking a sustainable energy future with today's youth. Much like the podcast Ghost of Christmas Present., we celebrate environmental stewardship in this episode, but also the exciting possibilities for upcoming generations to unlock.   Rebecca Schwartz  14:24 Ah, now we're talking let's go.   Dan Seguin  14:27 With every new generation that comes of age, there's a fresh perspective introduced to the table. Young people offer incredible opportunities for change with their new ideas and verve. However, part of the challenge for young people around the world is finding a platform from which their voice can be heard and valued. Without well established networks and resources. Young people can easily be stifled or forgotten. Thankfully, when it comes to the energy sector, climate change, and what's in store for the future, an organization by the name of student energy seeks to bridge that gap. Student energy is a global youth led non for profit organization that strives to empower young people to accelerate their sustainable energy transition. They connect young people to global changemakers and provide them access to decision making spaces, so that they have opportunities to play a part in their energy future. They started with three driven students who, in 2009, is set out to organize the first international student energy summit. Since then, it has expanded into a global organization, with programs engaging over 50,000 students from over 120 countries, alumni are going on to develop and implement renewable energy technologies, advise the United Nations and advocate for a clean energy future while working with some of the largest energy companies.  In this episode Shakti Ramkumar, Director of Communications and policy for student energy shares about how the energy industry utilities, and we, as individuals can support youth in establishing a sustainable energy future.   Shakti Ramkumar  16:34 I think there are two main things that we've recognized are distinct about young people's values when it comes to the energy transition that kind of makes this era of the environment and climate movement a little bit different than the previous era. One is the timeline in which young people expect action. We're seeing commitments now, finally, from companies and governments about aiming for net zero emissions by 2050. And young people who are climate activists are saying, Okay, that's good, but we need to see action right now. And that's why our Global Youth Energy Outlook actually works on a timeline leading up to 2030, not 2050, as we will have to take drastic climate action by then if we want to act in accordance with climate science. So as the years pass, and our global climate commitments are still not strong enough to meet the 1.5 degree target that we've set as a collective, the sense of urgency among young people, I think, is something that is really distinct. The second big value that we've seen from young people is that we're not siloed in our thinking, and that young people won't consider it a success, if we successfully decarbonize our energy system, are the harms that the current energy system has inflicted on people and communities, and haven't made sure that the benefits of the Clean Energy Transition are equitably distributed. So an emphasis on seeing energy as a mechanism through which we can build a more just and equitable society is something that is a really strong value for young people that I think it's something new, to the energy transition. And on the question of what can older generations do at student energy, we really value intergenerational collaboration, we have a lot to learn from people who have set up the energy system as it is now about the complexities and the nuances of producing distributing supplying energy. So we really value intergenerational collaboration. And there's three main things that I think older generations can do, particularly those with resources or power to make decisions. One very simple invest in young people that can look like financially supporting youth led organizations, youth led projects, or investing time through mentorship and guidance to is understand the value of youth, a lot of organizations, we want them to really think, are we meaningfully engaging with young people? What can we do to meaningfully and equitably engage with young people, not just on a tokenistic basis, but on a really kind of equal relationship. And this is something student energy often works with organizations to help them figure out especially if they're navigating youth engagement for the very first time. And the third thing, I would say is to create space for young people, older generations who have access to a large platform or an influential position. Think actively about how you can make young space for young people using that privilege. Whether this looks like asking an event organizer, why there are no young people on the panel and recommending some young people showing that panel, whether it looks like bringing up in a meeting, why we're not funding youth led organizations, or taking into consideration the youth voice when making that next strategy, that next plan. These are some tangible ways that older generations can really support young people.   Dan Seguin  19:48 How's that for inspiration? Feeling empowered Rebecca?   Rebecca Schwartz  19:52 Not gonna lie. I definitely feel fired up by all that Shakti had to say there. So how are you going to support me Dan? Fresh, hip, young mind that I am   Dan Seguin  20:02 Funny you should say that because I'm about to put you on the hot seat. You know how we always end off with some rapid fire questions? Well today, it's your turn to answer them. So, over to you. Now, Rebecca, what is your favorite word?   Rebecca Schwartz  20:23 My favorite word is Pomplamoose...like grapefruit just has a roll off the tongue type of thing.   Dan Seguin  20:33 Sure. What is the one thing you can't live without?   Rebecca Schwartz  20:37 My cats.   Dan Seguin  20:38 Now, what is something that challenges you?   Rebecca Schwartz  20:42 waking up in the morning   Dan Seguin  20:44 You're not a morning person?   Rebecca Schwartz  20:47 It eems not.   Dan Seguin  20:49 If you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Rebecca Schwartz  20:53 Definitely teleportation.   Dan Seguin  20:55 Now this one should be interesting. If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self, what would you tell her?   Rebecca Schwartz  21:04 I would tell her to keep saying yes to opportunities and that you'll go way further that way.   Dan Seguin  21:10 And lastly, Rebecca, what's on your wish list this holiday season?   Rebecca Schwartz  21:15 Okay, so there's a little bit not so much a rapid fire question. But I'm really passionate about food security and reducing waste. So my wish would be that those who can give choose to give this holiday season and a really good place to start is an organization that I'm really fond of. It's called Second Harvest. And they're a Food Rescue charity with a dual mission of providing hunger relief and environmental protection. And they redistribute overstock surplus food across Canada and all provinces and territories. And they feed things like school programs, senior centers, food banks, and the like. So if you have an appetite to donate this holiday season, we'll include a link in our show notes.   Dan Seguin  21:57 Very cool. Well, dear listeners, we've reached the end of another episode of The think energy podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you had a lot of fun and happy holidays.   Rebecca Schwartz  22:11 Happy holidays Dan, and to you our listeners. I sure hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. If so please head over to our iTunes SUBSCRIBE And leave us a review.   Dan Seguin  22:24 Now For show notes and bonus content visit thinkenergypodcast.ca. Also, be sure to tell your friends and colleagues about us.   Rebecca Schwartz  22:33 Thank you for listening
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Dec 6, 2021 • 27min

The Power of Local Hydro and the Electricity Distributors Association

The energy sector, specifically electricity, is evolving at a rapid pace. But some folks may not realize that 94 per cent of Ontario’s electricity is generated without producing any greenhouse gas emissions. That’s pretty remarkable. So, what can customers expect from their local hydro utility today and in the future? How are they influenced by the government and its regulators? Teresa Sarkesian, the President and CEO of the Electricity Distributors Association, is here with us today to fill us in. Related Content & Links:  Teresa Sarkesian’s Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teresa-sarkesian-53898613 EDA website: https://www.eda-on.ca/  --- Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:33 Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast. And in today's episode, we'll explore the need for our sector to have a collective voice. I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:03 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz. Dan, I don't know if you knew this, but before starting at Hydro Ottawa, I never really gave electricity much thought it was just kind of something that was always there. I didn't really know before starting here, just how much a local utility company did, how they are really on the frontlines every day keeping our complex electricity grid working and the lights on for all of us.   Dan Seguin  01:26 Or probably what a regulated industry is in Ontario, or that utilities don't even make the profit from selling energy.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:36 Definitely. And with Hydro Ottawa being a private company, it seems a little counterintuitive.   Dan Seguin  01:42 Yeah. Local hydro utilities, also known as local distribution companies distribute power from high voltage transmission lines: those big metal towers you see, to lower voltage hydro poles, so that it can be safe enough for more than 5 million residential, business, industrial and institutional customers across our province.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:07 Yep. And that includes the installation and maintenance of power lines, pools, underground cables, metering, implementing electrical vehicle infrastructure, and in some cases, even generating electricity themselves through renewable energy sources.   Dan Seguin  02:23 The energy sector specifically electricity is evolving at a rapid pace. But some folks may not realize that 94% of Ontario's electricity is generated without producing any greenhouse gas emissions. That's pretty remarkable. So here's today's big question: What can customers expect from their local hydro utility today? And in the future? How are they influenced by the government and its regulators?   Rebecca Schwartz  02:55 Our guest today is Teresa Sarkesian, and the President and CEO of Electricity Distributors Association. Teresa, welcome to the show. Perhaps you could start us off by telling us a little bit about yourself and what the electricity Distributors Association does.   Teresa Sarkesian  03:15 Well, thank you so much, Rebecca, and Dan, and I'm delighted to be here today. So a little bit about myself. I joined the EDA 12 years ago, after successive positions working in the public policy and advocacy space in the provincial government with a lobby firm and another industry association in the manufacturing sector. I've been president and CEO for over five years now, which I can't believe it really has flown by quickly. As for the association, the Electricity Distributors Association is the voice of Ontario's electricity distribution sector to decision makers at Queen's Park. We are the trusted and vital source for advocacy insight information for Ontario's LDCs. The municipally owned privately owned companies that safely and reliably deliver electricity to over 5 million Ontario homes, businesses and public institutions. Our mission is to provide our local distribution companies with a valued industry knowledge, networking opportunities and collective action vital to the business success of each member. And our vision is to shape the future for LDCs to be the premier service providers to Ontarians in the evolving energy system.   Dan Seguin  04:20 As the voice for more than 60 local distribution companies. Maybe you can talk about the power of local hydro campaign, its purpose, and what you're trying to convey to residents of Ontario,   Teresa Sarkesian  04:34 Of course, so in 2018, the EDA launched its innovative and award winning power of local hydro campaign, which is a public relations program designed to position and promote the local hydro utilities to government and the public. The goal of the campaign was to raise awareness and visibility of the sector and the value they provide to customers and communities. That value includes providing safe and reliable electricity service support to customers on innovative programs and solutions and providing economic support through dividends. So communities can invest in roads, hospitals, and recreation centers. One of the most important aspects of the campaign is that customers count on and trust the local utility to keep the lights on and help them manage their energy use. We have the trust because we work with our customers one on one in the communities where they live, work and play LDCs have a customer first mindset, which is communicated through the campaign with the tagline being on the frontlines of power,   Dan Seguin  05:34 Being in public affairs. I'm looking forward to your response for the next question. Does the campaign have more significance in any election year like 2022? And if so, why?   Teresa Sarkesian  05:47 Yes, Dan, I think the power of local hydro campaign has more significance during an election year. As distributors, we continue to have our fingers on the pulse of what Ontarians want from their electricity system. And we want to help customers better understand the evolving electricity system now that electricity is being seen as the answer to many climate change and netzero challenges. Customers will turn to their local utility to ask questions and seek advice on a wide range of electricity matters. And similarly, candidates and politicians will monitor what EDA has to say around electricity issues, as they understand that LDCs are on the frontlines with customers and know what is important to them.   Rebecca Schwartz  06:29 So, Teresa, your organization has communicated that Ontario's power system is changing and that local utilities are on the front lines. What exactly do you mean by that?   Teresa Sarkesian  06:39 customer demands and expectations are changing both in terms of interest in using new technologies, as well as service oriented expectations. Many households and businesses are embracing new ways to manage their power use while exploring electric vehicles, solar panel installation, battery storage switching from gas to electric heating, through ground source heat pumps, and other cost saving technologies that help reduce energy waste. Customers are looking for information and advice to connect to the distribution grid and possibly sell their surplus generation or storage back to the grid. The relationship with the customer is now developing into a two way street much more dynamic and integrated than in the past, when the flow of energy was one way only, and LDCs are well positioned to facilitate electrification of the economy, such as supporting the development of electric vehicle charging infrastructure, and to capitalize on the opportunities related to energy storage from electric vehicles connecting to the grid LDCs are ready and able to assist, operate and own charging infrastructure services to plug in the growing demand for private and public electrify transportation. We want to work with government and third parties to help customers explore these options safely and cost effectively while ensuring that we deliver on our responsibility to maintain the reliability of the distribution grid.   Dan Seguin  08:00 Okay, Teresa, I understand that the Electricity Distributors Association relies on input and guidance from dedicated subject matter experts who serve on the diverse councils and committees. Could you impact or provide examples of how these groups guide the development of your policies and how that impacts utilities and electricity customers?   Teresa Sarkesian  08:24 Thanks for that question, Dan. We have over if you can believe this 150 volunteers from the LDC members that serve on one or more of our eight standing councils and committees. They are an extraordinarily committed group of subject matter experts from all corners of the province, representing utilities and communities of all sizes. These EDA councils and committees come together in response to government agency and regulatory consultations and some are very, very technical. The EDA is the platform that brings the industry together and we build consensus based industry positions to present to government agencies and regulators in the province. Over the past couple of years, we have prepared 50 policy submissions annually, and we are on track to do the same in 2021. Examples are far reaching from building changes to enable a customer choice model to supporting the implementation of broadband expansion to shaping ISO market renewal design. Our elected board also provides additional policy guidance on longer term issues. Our power to connect vision papers which set out a 15 year vision to explore new business models for LDCs in enabling distributed energy resources, were some recent strategic thought leadership from our board. And we are exploring more policy work in the area of net zero impacts on the distribution sector. So stay tuned for further insights on that issue. Our volunteers are highly engaged, and I would like to thank them for their time and expertise to the industry.   Rebecca Schwartz  09:55 Can you provide us with examples where collectively with utilities you proposed and advanced policy solutions at Queen's Park, which ones are you most proud of?   Teresa Sarkesian  10:05 Well, we have so many examples, Rebecca. So it was hard for me to choose. But I'm going to pick a couple from the last couple of years because I think during the pandemic, I'm particularly proud of our advocacy when things are so chaotic, down with decision makers at Queen's Park. So one way we demonstrated our customer first mandate was related to the COVID Energy Assistance Program. At the beginning of COVID. Last year, the EDA raised concerns with government that customers were struggling with electricity costs. Because of the lockdown associated with the pandemic. The EDA in its members developed and tabled ideas to provide financial support to residential and small business customers, and to provide partial relief from the global adjustment for larger customers. From there, we work closely with the Ministry of Energy to develop and implement the guidelines for the COVID-19 energy assistance program called CEAP and later the CEAP Small Business Initiative, with government providing 17 million in funding through the first phase of the pandemic. After a subsequent advocacy push from EDA and 2021. An additional 23 million was approved for the CEAP programs. CEAP has assisted more than 62,000 Ontario households and more than 13,000 small businesses. And the CEAP program is a great example of how utilities put customers first. And we're particularly proud of that because it was such a trying time, and it feels good to know that customers were supported by the utilities. The second example is our long standing advocacy efforts on the Ontario Energy boards modernization. We were very pleased this past year to see many of the EDA's modernization recommendations incorporated into the Minister of Energy's mandate letter to the OB chair. This issue has been and continues to be a multi year priority for our sector, we are confident that there will be constructive change ahead to reduce regulatory burden for LDCs. So utilities can focus more on meeting customer needs as the energy sector transforms.   Dan Seguin  12:01 Okay. Now, in your vision paper the power to connect advancing customer driven electricity solutions for Ontario, what are you proposing as a new way forward for Ontario's electricity system?   Teresa Sarkesian  12:16 As you know the electricity sector is transforming rapidly, we are moving towards a two way electricity flow.  With more customers generating and storing energy behind the meter, LDCs have a unique opportunity to be at the forefront of grid transformation by deploying these enabling technologies and developing a service platform that provides new innovative offerings to customers and DER providers. We recognize consumers as drivers of change and local distribution utilities are really at the center of that change with them. We can leverage new technologies to deliver high quality electricity services, and help customers connecting to the grid. We envision local utilities owning operating and integrating small scale clean energy and storage systems, also known as distributed energy resources right into the local grid to better meet consumer needs while augmenting the bulk power grid. We think LDCs should have a greater role as we move forward in areas such as digitalization of utilities in the grid planning locally, regionally and for the bulk system, and to provide alternatives where possible, that are lower cost than traditional capital investments.   Rebecca Schwartz  13:27 Okay, great. So now how can utilities best serve the interests of its customers in today's evolving industry?   Teresa Sarkesian  13:34 Well, I think Rebecca, we can best serve the interests of our customers by doing what LDCs do best. That's by continuing to build connections and trust with Ontarians through our customer centric approach to service by staying close and by providing knowledge and guidance to our customers on what matters to them most. Whether that's managing bills, conservation programs, ensuring reliability, supporting EV charging connections, whatever it may be. LDCs are trusted by customers and expected to have the answers and solutions to help them engage in a customized way with the evolving energy grid.   Rebecca Schwartz  14:08 Alright, so our utilities aligned with Ontario's long term energy plan as it relates to cost effective electricity and greenhouse gas emission reduction targets?   Teresa Sarkesian  14:18 Well, that's a great question because Ontario has a relatively clean grid compared to many other jurisdictions. While there is still room to improve, we need to focus efforts on reducing greenhouse gas emissions, where we will achieve the greatest reduction. therefore reducing emissions in the transportation sector and in the building sector are expected to play a bigger role in meeting broader climate change targets given that emissions from those two sectors comprise approximately 60% of all greenhouse gas emissions in Ontario. And utilities are very keen to support the fuel switching from gas to electric vehicles as a critical part of reducing greenhouse gases in Ontario. It poses an interesting challenge that as we decarbonize our economy to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, electricity use is expected to actually grow, we need to ensure that low or no emitting resources are pursued, such as renewables, energy storage and energy efficiency, along with other emerging technologies, such as hydrogen and small modular reactors. Presently, Ontario does not have a comprehensive public policy framework on these matters. We are looking forward to new direction coming out of the province on a multitude of initiatives including a new long term energy plan, and electrification strategy potentially from the Ministry of Transportation, and a new environmental plan from the Ministry of the Environment. I do want to speak to the electricity system because we would like to see a renewed emphasis on conservation and energy efficiency, with LDCs being at the forefront of these initiatives. For every kilowatt hour saved, one less kilowatt hour needs to be generated. Ontario has an unusual arrangement where conservation is centrally run, and not led by the local distribution companies, which is the more common practice in other jurisdictions across North America. LDCs are keen to provide conservation programs as part of a broader, more comprehensive package of solutions to help customers manage energy use and costs. LDCs were very successful in delivering conservation in Ontario the past few years LDCs deliver conservation at a cost of 1.5 cents a kilowatt hour, which was unparalleled in North America. It would be great to bring back that cost efficient and effective approach to the province and put LDCs back in the driver's seat on designing and delivering conservation for customers.   Dan Seguin  16:48 Same line of questioning here Teresa, can you share with our listeners the views of your association on the long term strategy for EVs and electrification in Ontario?   Teresa Sarkesian  17:02 So LDCs are at the forefront and have the expertise and relationships that will be crucial to expanding electrification. LDCs need to be central to supporting an electrification strategy in Ontario given the challenges utilities will face with increased load and capacity issues. And there is an opportunity to also harness the storage capacity of electric vehicle batteries to assist with grid reliability, particularly in emergency situations. But for LDCs to fully seize this opportunity ahead and effectively manage the challenges associated with large scale electrification, regulatory frameworks need to be better aligned with these fast emerging trends. Incorporating electrify transportation infrastructure should be viewed with the same regulatory lens as investing in poles, wires and transformers. There is a broader societal benefit. And while many LDCs are eager to build EV infrastructure, they face barriers today and getting in included in their rate base. That in turn is a crucial factor in enabling them to justify it amortize a significant upfront investment required to ensure system reliability with growing EV charging. And the same challenge applies to investments needed to support transit and fleet electrification as well. The current rate classes are not well suited to fast charging requirements and this is a disincentive to strategic infrastructure investment in the context of transit and fleet charging in particular, overnight or other rate classes designed to accommodate and equitably price fleet EV charging has already been implemented elsewhere and are needed in Ontario.   Dan Seguin  18:38 Thanks. Now, what is your organization's role in the electrification of transportation?   Teresa Sarkesian  18:45 So it's an exciting time for the sector to be part of this and electrification will play a significant part in Ontario's netzero future and LDCs need to play a key role in enabling the full potential of EVs in Ontario. So what is the EDA doing? so the EDA continues to participate in multi stakeholder discussions with a range of parties and government officials. Currently, we are participating on the transportation electrification Council, which is a working groups set up by the Ministry of Transportation. And that's going to go on for the next few more months, but recurring themes today include the need for rate basing of charging infrastructure to help stimulate expansion of public charging networks and for the longer term benefit of ratepayers and also discussion of challenges relating to household EV charging, such as the potential need for major electrical upgrades. But we have ongoing advocacy related to electrification, not only with the Ministry of Transportation, but across government and with the agencies and the regulator.   Rebecca Schwartz  19:45 Teresa, in one of your policy papers, Roadmap to a brighter Ontario, you identified current barriers to the evolution of local distribution companies for the future. Can you expand on what those are and perhaps what are some solutions?   Teresa Sarkesian  19:59 Absolutely. At least so currently we are as a sector lacking a comprehensive regulatory framework on distributed energy resources. There are some consultation and review processes in play at both the Ontario Energy Board and at the Independent Electricity System Operator, but they are both at the fairly early development stage, there needs to be the ability to have remuneration and more certainty and clarity, going forward to establish the role of LDCs in supporting and optimizing the electricity grid. So I want to talk about a few barriers that we have identified. So one of the challenges we have is that we must improve the distribution system plans through investments in grid visibility, we need to ensure that LDCs are permitted to make investments in grid visibility to benefit fully from the value of DERs. And by improving visibility, it will ensure that the distribution system plans are developed with greater certainty and prudence. Greater visibility also increases the ability of LDCs to coordinate with the ISO to further optimize broader electricity system benefits. Another area of concern we have is we need to remove restrictions on LDC ownership of DER resources. Currently, LDCs are restricted to owning DERs of 10 megawatts or less, there should be more flexibility in owning the large DERs and the LDC sector also needs more clarity on behind the meter ownership of the DERs. There is some light guidance by the OEB right now that will allow the ownership of behind the meter non wires alternatives, as they call them, if it can be demonstrated to be more cost effective than traditional capital investments, but we still need more certainty to ensure that is the case going forward. Another area of concern for our sector is we need to allow LDCs to control and operate DER assets for two primary purposes. And these are often DER assets that are owned by customers behind the meter. But we need to have ability to control and operate these for two main reasons. One is to allow for coordination and aggregation of DERs to respond to ISO led procurements pertaining to province wide system reliability. And also to coordinate and aggregate DERs to address local reliability within the distribution network. So these are just a few of I think we have about 15 solutions, but I thought I would just target three for the audience today.   Dan Seguin  22:27 This next one is very interesting - for me. How will distributed energy resources change the relationship between utilities and customers.   Teresa Sarkesian  22:38 While many utilities are interested in optimizing DERs that reside behind the meter and may be underutilized by customer owners and operators. Currently, there is over 4000 megawatts of DERs behind the meters of utilities across Ontario. Better digitalization of utility will provide visibility of where all those resources sit on the distribution grid. With that knowledge and the ability of LDCs to be permitted to offer price signals, owners and operators of these DERs could choose to sell back some of the generation or storage to assist the utility in supporting grid reliability. And in order to dispatch the DERs utilities will need to invest in advanced control systems to achieve this level of grid sophistication. This integration of customer assets on the distribution grid will potentially create more efficiencies in the system by delaying or avoiding other generation or transmission investments. It will be a much more dynamic relationship with customers than in the past.   Rebecca Schwartz  23:37 Wow, I can't believe that 2022 is already upon us. So what are the top two issues that could impact utilities, their shareholders and the more than 5 million customers across the province?   Teresa Sarkesian  23:51 Well, that's a great question, Rebecca. So one of the issues that we see that could be important for our sector and customers will be the post pandemic economic recovery and the upcoming provincial election in Ontario. So with regard to the post pandemic economic recovery, there has been a lot of discussion about the opportunities related to electrification. So depending on how fast government would like to move, or to incent electrification in Ontario, this could be really quite challenging for LDCs to be at the ready, because as I mentioned before, we need to make sure that we have the proper capital investments, remuneration and visibility tools to make sure that we can effectively electrify Ontario's economy. And with regard to the Ontario election, depending on the election results, there is always a possibility that there may be a change in focus for the energy sector. So if there might be a shift in government, perhaps they might want to go harder or faster on net zero or electrification targets. So we'll have to wait and see what happens. I guess the election is only about seven months away now.   Dan Seguin  24:58 Okay, Teresa Now for the fun part. How about we close off with some rapid fire questions? Okay, first one, what is your favorite word?   Teresa Sarkesian  25:11 Compassion   Dan Seguin  25:13 What is the one thing you can't live without   Teresa Sarkesian  25:17 my sense of humor   Dan Seguin  25:18 What is something that challenges you?   Teresa Sarkesian  25:21 Working in the ever changing electricity sector is both challenging and rewarding.   Dan Seguin  25:27 Now, if you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Teresa Sarkesian  25:32 Not needing to sleep.   Dan Seguin  25:35 Okay, if you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self, what would you tell her?   Teresa Sarkesian  25:43 Well, that would be going back a very long time ago at this stage, Dan. But what I would say to her is be brave and take a year to travel, because you won't have the time to do it again for a very, very long time for a whole year, perhaps not until retirement.   Dan Seguin  25:58 And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector?   Teresa Sarkesian  26:05 I think it's the energy transformation journey we are all on right now. We are part of a global transformation on electrifying society. It's not just happening in Ontario. It is happening all across the world. It is so exciting to be part of global change. And I can't say I've really ever had that before in my career.   Rebecca Schwartz  26:24 Alright, Theresa, we reached the end of another episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. Thanks so much for joining us today. We hope you had fun.   Teresa Sarkesian  26:32 I did. Thank you so much. It was great to chat with you today.   Rebecca Schwartz  26:36 I sure hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. If so please head over to our iTunes SUBSCRIBE And leave us a review.   Dan Seguin  26:44 Now For show notes and bonus content visit thinkenergypodcast.ca. Also, be sure to tell your friends and colleagues about us. Thank you for listening
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Nov 22, 2021 • 50min

The Evolution of Electrical Safety

Unfortunately, electrical injuries are not as rare as one would hope. But the rate of electrical fatalities is actually trending down thanks to the efforts of the Electrical Safety Authority. Today’s big question: How has the Electrical Safety Authority strategically evolved its approach to safety in this modern, and increasingly electric world? Special guest, Josie Erzetic, Chief Regulatory Officer & General Counsel for the Electrical Safety Authority, is here with us today to help ground us with a greater understanding of the dangers behind electricity and how we can protect ourselves, our loved ones, and our colleagues from injury. --- Do you work in a construction related industry? Call or email (ESA.communications@esasafe.com) the ESA to learn about their spring startup sessions. They are happy to send somebody out to educate your workers about the potential hazards around powerline contact.  Related Content & Links:  Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josie-erzetic-0bb58010/ Grounded in Ontario Podcast: www.ESAsafe.com/podcast --- Transcript:  Dan Seguin  00:50 Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast. And in today's episode, we'll be talking about safety in this increasingly, electric world. I'm dancing.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:02 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz.   Dan Seguin  01:04 Electricity is everywhere. It has become a necessary part of our lives powering the way we live, work and play. Rebecca, how much of a headache is it when the power goes out?   Rebecca Schwartz  01:19 Hmm, it's a huge headache, Dan. And let me tell you, as a social media coordinator, I know firsthand that our customers feel the pain.   Dan Seguin  01:28 Yep, I'm the same way when the power goes out, we notice but apart from those moments, it's easy to take for granted. Likewise, with it being such a critical resource that already has many safeguards in place, it's easy to forget just how dangerous it is   Rebecca Schwartz  01:45 so true. And well, most of us have likely experienced an electric shock of some kind. Hopefully, for most people, just a small Static Shock, you know, from walking across your carpet with socks on and touching the closest victim in proximity to you. But I digress. static shocks like these are of little consequence. However, when it comes to the electric current running through our homes, businesses and communities via wires and powerlines incidents involving electric shock are anything but amusing.   Dan Seguin  02:15 Unfortunately, the sobering reality is that electrical injuries are not as rare as you and I or the Electrical Safety Authority would like. According to the Ontario electrical safety report, there have been a 135 electrical related fatalities in the past 10 years. 52 of those deaths were a result of electrocution, or the effects of an electrical burn, and 83 were a result of electrical fires. The silver lining is that the rate of electrical fatalities is actually trending down. fatalities have dropped 13% Compared to the previous 10 year period.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:59 And the organization behind this downwards trend is the Electrical Safety Authority. They serve to regulate and promote electrical safety in Ontario, improve safety for the well being of all Ontarians and ultimately to reduce electrical injuries and fatalities to zero.   Dan Seguin  03:16 So Rebecca, here's today's big question. How has the electrical safety authorities strategically evolved, its approach to safety in this modern and increasingly electric world? Special guest, Josie Erzetic, Chief regulatory officer and General Counsel for the Electrical Safety Authority is here with us today to help ground us with a greater understanding of the dangers behind electricity, and how we can protect ourselves, our loved ones, and our colleagues from injury. Hey Josie, Welcome to the show. Perhaps you can start us off by telling us more about your organization, your role as a regulator, and what fuels your passion for working there?   Josie Erzetic  04:12 Thanks so much, Daniel. I'm really happy to be on the show. So Thanks for inviting me. I guess what I'd start off with is just talking about ESA's mission, and that is to promote electrical safety across Ontario. So in fact, our vision is an Ontario where people can live work and play safe from electrical harm. So we're talking about electrical safety at home, as well as in the workplace. So how do you do that? We basically have carriage four regulations in the province. So the first one being the one people probably associate most which with us, which is the Ontario Electrical Safety Code. The second one is that we license all of the LEC's and ME's, that's master electricians and licensed electrical contractors in the province. Thirdly, we regulate electrical product safety. And finally, we regulate the safety of all licensed distribution companies in the province. And that would be, for example, Ottawa Hydro. So we regulate safety in that regard as well. And we're constantly just scanning the market for new areas that we perceive present an electrical safety risk to consumers to Ontarians. And we promote education, electrical safety education. So what what fuels my passion you asked? It's basically that safety and consumer protection mandate, I find it very, very meaningful work to do this. So that's what gets me up in the mornings. And I'm really fortunate to just work with a really, really great group of people.   Rebecca Schwartz  06:01 with safety and risk mitigation top of mind how the accidents increased or decreased in the last five to 10 years. And how do you measure this?   Josie Erzetic  06:10 it's a really good question. And I'm very happy to report that over the last 10 years, overall, the state of electrical safety in Ontario has improved. There's been a 42% reduction in critical injuries that result as a result of electrical incidents, and there's been a 30% reduction in electrical fires. Overall, as well over the past decade, there's been an 11% decrease in electrical related fatalities. When it comes to power lines, specifically, there has been an 8% decrease in the last 10 years in power line related fatalities. So how do we know this? we track all the data. So we look very carefully at electrical fatalities, as well as critical injuries. And we really sort of hone in on where they're coming from. So I'll give you an example. For example, dump truck drivers a number of years ago, we recognized that there were a lot of electrical contact with power lines as the result of dump truck drivers keeping the box on their truck in an elevated position. So as a result of that we really focused in on that problem and started to do a lot of work with that industry. So what did we do? we created a whole campaign around, look up, look out. So we posted these types of signs all around construction areas, we posted power line safety posters. We delivered safety talks to industry associations to students to construction workers. And we worked in partnership with the IHSA, which is the infrastructure Health and Safety Association. And we also translated some of our safety materials into other languages, including French, Portuguese, Punjabi, to make sure that people understood the message. And as a result of it, what's happened is that the number of powerline contacts from that industry has decreased by 28%, when you compare five year periods. So having said all that, there's still a lot of work to be done. And we're again tracking data to look at where we might see other risk areas so that we can really focus in on those.   Dan Seguin  08:53 Now let's move on from data to reports. I know you recently released an annual safety report. What is that telling you?   Josie Erzetic  09:01 So our annual safety report is called the Ontario electrical safety report or OESR. It's the only document of this kind in Canada. And what it really does is help us identify emerging risk areas. So this this last month, we released our 20th edition. And what it's telling us on the homeowner side certainly is we've seen an increase in power line contacts reported from the public. So this is not what I was referring to earlier in terms of fatalities per se, but it's just an increase in the numbers of contacts, which of course could lead to serious injury or fatality, so we want to really think about data like this and try to send our safety message to the public. So where are we seeing contact? we're seeing it in areas like tree trimming or cutting. We're seeing it in things like kite flying or home improvement. work. For example, if you think about it, you're working around your home, you're moving around a ladder, let's say, to clean your eavestroughs, anything like that. And we're potentially seeing power line contact as a result, yard renovations. So we noticed that, especially during this pandemic period, where people are doing a lot of their own renovation work, there's a potential there for power line contact. So what we've done is we're shifting a lot of our campaigns online, and we're sending out messages like stop, look and live, we find that people are going online, when they're thinking about doing renovations when they're hiring contractors to help with some of those renovations. So we want to send out those messages that make sure you're aware of powerlines, you're aware of what you're doing, and that you stay far enough away. Another example is pools and pool clearances or hot tubs. So in that sense, we've sent out messages saying make sure you keep yourself and your equipment, for example, pool skimmers, which can be quite long, far away from overhead power lines, and our recommendation is at least three meters away. So that's on the homeowner side. And if we want to switch it now to the work side, on the occupational side, I point to the fall of 2019. Were in the span of about 24 hours, we were notified tragically of two critical injuries and two deaths as a result of powerline contact. And those were four separate incidents. So one was a crane construction worker. The second one was arborists that were it was a team of two arborists that were involved in tree trimming. The third one involved a TTC worker. So that's the Toronto Transit Commission in Toronto. And, and the fourth one was a drill operator. So this was a really tragic day where you had a number of incidents just occurring in very close temporal proximity. But it was also a catalyst for us to think about redesigning our power line campaign. And so what we're doing as a result is we have campaigns twice annually so that we make sure it's at the start of construction season, as well as in the fall months. We're also working closely with the Ministry of Labor to understand all of the circumstances behind those incidents. And we also work with our industry partners to make sure that we educate workers who are at high risk, and I mentioned arborist as an example. So we want to again focus in on those occupations that we think are at high risk of powerline contact. We've also observed a rise in incidents involving young workers. And as a result, we have specialists who go to the colleges to ensure that students young workers involved in things like heavy machinery operation in the arborist industry, get the information about the potential hazard around power line contact, so to ensure that they're well educated on that. And we also encourage any companies. So anyone who is listening to this podcast, who you know works in a construction related area, if you want to give us a call about our spring startup sessions, we're happy to send somebody out to educate your workers about the potential hazards around powerline contact. And you can do this by just emailing us at ESA.communications@esasafe.com. And we'd be happy to do a spring startup session for folks.   Rebecca Schwartz  14:11 Thanks, Josie. We'll make sure to include that in our show notes. So we read that the Electrical Safety Authority is striving to be a modern risk based electrical safety regulator for Ontarians. What exactly does that mean?   Josie Erzetic  14:25 Yeah, it's a great question. And I often think about that, myself, what does it mean to be to be a modern regulator, so it can mean a lot of things to a lot of people, but I'll sort of give you the key elements of it for us. So it really, it means to us to use something that we call risk based oversight. It means leveraging technology and really fostering the capabilities of our people. So when we say risk based oversight, as you can imagine, trying to be a safety regulator. The complex world we live in today in a in a province, as populous as the province of Ontario is a difficult task, you can't be everywhere all at once. So we use risk base to really prioritize and focus on the highest risk electrical installations, we actually have an algorithm that helps us understand which installations are the high risk ones, and we prioritize those and have a whole system for prioritization. So we're basically putting the most time in the highest risk areas. Along those lines were also through. And we did this through the COVID period, we're really piloting the use of what we call remote inspections. So that in other words, rather than an inspector attending at each installation, there's the possibility for a licensed electrical contractor to send in photos or videos. And we put job aids around that and given instruction to the industry about what we're looking for. So again, so low risk installation, and in the inspectors discretion, they can accept photos or videos, which you can imagine, makes it more efficient for us doing our job. And it's also, you know, potentially an efficiency value to the contractor as well to submit photos rather than having somebody attend in person. So that's another thing where we're moving forward as a modern regulator, I'd say, in terms of leveraging technology, we've really moved digital, I think, as have a lot of companies at this time. So example, where we used to have all our master exams happening in person, they can now happen virtually. So we have a system where we can do virtual proctoring of exams, so you can do your exam online, we can do online training, which is either synchronous or asynchronous, which is which is terrific for folks. If it's synchronous, then you might have an instructor with you asynchronous, you're watching videos, or you're going through PowerPoint on on your own time. So it's, it's leveraging technology for us, but also for the folks that we service. And another big thing we've done is our plan review group, which looks at electrical drawings, for complex electrical installations. So say, for example, for a car manufacturer or a large industry, rather than having these clients submit hard copies of complicated electrical plans, they can now do so digitally through our electronic plan review portal. So that's something again, that's very good for clients and good for efficiency purposes. For us, we also have a new scheduling tool that provides customers better notice of when an inspector is going to arrive, which is again, a real win from a from an efficiency standpoint, and we're now launching a project that would allow master electricians and licensed electrical contractors to submit documents online, so time saving there. And the last area I'd say is focusing on fostering new skills. So where our employees need to augment skills or develop new skills, we're very supportive of continuing education and, and skills broadening. And we're also looking at where do we have gaps? Where is technology? Or is our sector evolving, and we need to ensure we're evolving with it. So an example I give you there is what we've just been talking about, which is around data analytics. So we've recognized that we need to improve our capability in that regard. And as a result, we've hired a couple of new people to help us in that regard. And we're also augmenting skills of folks that we already have working for us. I think I'd be remiss if I didn't mention diversity and inclusion. I think a lot of employers are thinking about that right now, as are we. And so we do have what we call an idea strategy, which is inclusion, diversity, equity and accessibility. And I think that is a very important part of being a modern regulator. And I would say that, you know, I'm really happy to report that 80% of our executive team is now women. So I think we're making some real advances in that area, but you know, I'll be honest with you, I'd like to see more so We're continuing to work on that. So I guess that's in summary, what I really see is being a modern regulator.   Dan Seguin  20:08 That's very interesting. Thanks, Josie. Now, wondering if you could tell us about your organization's new corporate strategy at a high level? Can you walk us through the four strategic goals and why they're so important?   Josie Erzetic  20:23 Yeah. So it's, it's a very good question. And some of these goals we have maintained from previous years and others we've really expanded upon. So I would say the, the first of the four main goals is really safety. And that's one that's always been a focus of our organization. But having said that, we can all see the rapid evolution of technology in the sector. So we're really maintaining a close focus on that, and working with industry partners in that regard. So examples I give you there are things like the adoption of electric vehicles or energy storage technologies. So in the example I give you is that I'm currently sitting on a council that the Ministry of Transportation has set up around Evie adoption. So we want to participate on councils like that, that look at this one is on the electrification of the transportation sector. So that's an important part important pillar in the strategy, and an important part of what we're doing. So we do things like we anticipate new risk areas, we have something called the harm lifecycle, which really has a scanning the market, looking at potential for new technology, new harms that we should be monitoring and assessing. And then we decide, is this a high risk area that we would like to pilot a program in as an example? Is this something we should be partnering on? Like the example I just gave you with what MTO is doing? Is this something that we want to continue as a program, once we have achieved our goals in it? Is it something that we exit from so we have a whole lifecycle and how we look at risk. So I think that's an important part of the new strategy around safety. And then compliance, that's also something that we have carried over from our previous strategy. But I think, if anything, I would say we're almost amping up what we're doing in this area. So we work closely with our licensed communities, for example, the licensed electrical contractor community, and we educate the public in terms of ensuring that they hire a licensed electrical contractor, rather than, for example, going to unlicensed individuals. And we refer to that as the underground economy. So I would say that this new strategy really emphasizes the importance of getting at that underground economy or, you know, I'd like to put it as like, just let's take a bite out of that underground economy, let's reduce what's going on there. So we want to educate homeowners to not hire unlicensed individuals. And we will take enforcement action, where it's required against those people who are working illegally and not taking out licenses or permits because there are real safety and consumer protection risks around that type of work. And we've got some real active campaigns around that. For example, we have a Kijiji Blitz, where we are actively looking for people advertising services illegally on Kijiji and forcing those to come off Kijiji. Our third goal is operating with organizational agility. And I think, as a lot of companies are doing today, and as we talked about earlier, we're trying to leverage technology to make ourselves more efficient, and reduce, you know, burden for the licensees. So whether those are licensed electrical contractors, or LDCs, such as Hydro Ottawa, we're trying to reduce burden for our clients. And I think the last area is really around public accountability. We want to be seen as a publicly accountable transparent regulator So we do regular surveys of our customers to identify areas for improvement. You know, what are our strengths? But what are our weaknesses? And how can we do better? I think ESA has a culture of continuous improvement, which we're very proud of.   Rebecca Schwartz  25:18 Thanks for the reference to the underground economy, it seems like there's a black market for everything, even electrical services. Has there been a story that's stuck with you in regards to an electrical incident resulting in a serious injury that could have been prevented? Or is there a safety tip that you wish everybody knew?   Josie Erzetic  25:37 Yeah. So thank you for that question. And something that is real top of mind for me lately, is something called lichtenburg generators. So we've had a number of serious injuries and some deaths involving these devices. And my safety tip is stop using these devices. They are devices that they can either be made. So people were seeing people doing them as do it yourself projects, or they can be purchased. However, they're not a product that's either approved or certified by any certification body, and they're extremely dangerous. So we're aware of at least five fatalities and one critical injury that have taken place over the last three years. And a couple of those fatalities occurred earlier this year. And what these things are, I don't know if you've ever heard of them before, but they are used to create art. So they're like a wood burning type device. So you create it by burning designs into wood or acrylic. But they're a lot of them are homemade. And people take parts out of microwaves, for example, to put these things together. And they have a lot of accessible wiring components. So they're very unsafe to handle. And so and particularly on social media forums, we're seeing that individuals are posting videos, and they're instructing each other on how to build these devices. So right now we have a very comprehensive public safety awareness campaign to educate the public about the dangers of using Lichtenberg generators. And we're specifically targeting that sort of do it yourself, community and those who are interested in things like woodworking so what we're finding it's primarily men aged between 20 and 40, to not carry out this type of hobby and not use these types of devices. And if anyone is aware of advertising of this kind of advice, we would encourage them to call us at 1-877-esa-safe or visit us online. And and make us aware of this because we are asking, particularly YouTube to try to get these How To Videos removed. So the safety tip again, is don't use these devices. They're very dangerous.   Dan Seguin  28:20 Now your organization has a vision, a big vision to create an Ontario where people can live, work and play safe from electrical harm. During the pandemic, have there been any particular challenges or opportunities in achieving this?   Josie Erzetic  28:37 Yeah, it absolutely, because as I'm sure you both have found, people were at home. That means, among other things, a lot of on at home online shopping. So we want to make sure that people are very aware that electrical products that you're looking at, make sure they've been approved by a recognized certification body. So from both a safety awareness point of view, but also a consumer protection point of view, we want to make sure that people are buying approved products, as you both know. Online, it's so it's a global problem. You can buy products from anywhere in the world now and have them shipped directly to your house. So again, as a regulator, it's hard to be everywhere all at once. So the best thing is to have consumers aware themselves that when you're buying electrical products, you will want to ensure that it's either CSA certified UL certified, that you've got an approval mark on that product and you look for it when you're buying it on these online platforms. We share jurisdiction here with Health Canada, so I know Health Canada is all so concerned about this problem. So what we've done is we've set up a task force and we include ourselves on it, Health Canada, our own ministry, provincially, which is the ministry of government and Consumer Services. We've got manufacturers working with us distributors, consumer advocates, we've got bricks and mortar stores as part of the task force. But we also have online retailers. And we're all discussing the problem of consumer awareness, consumer protection and safety, because it's an all our interest to make sure people are safe. And we're putting resources into follow up on any reports we see, or we receive about unsafe consumer products. So we have been and we will follow up on 100% of reports we receive where somebody says, Look, I bought this thing it's unapproved, you know, I found that it sparked or there was a flash, when I tried to plug it in, we will follow up on all these things. We're also really enhancing consumer consumer awareness efforts, especially around this time of year, we're heading into holiday shopping season. And so we do have a holiday safety campaign. That's where we see a lot of people online, a lot of people looking at electrical products. So this campaign really focuses on consumer safety. And this year, in particular, we're encouraging folks who, you know, may be doing a lot of holiday decorating, they may be getting together to do this type of thing. So they're putting more emphasis on it this year, I don't know maybe more so than last year, when nobody came over. We're saying, you know, look closely at your your lights, right, your holiday lights that you're buying, make sure they're approved, make sure you use them correctly. Make sure if you have old ones that you're digging out of your basement, that there's no damage to cords, so just you know, be careful.   Rebecca Schwartz  32:04 Josie, you mentioned amateur DIY is like the dangerous Lichtenberg wood burning video on YouTube. Has there been other instances where the Electrical Safety Authority has seen an increase in electrical accidents? Or what about new areas of concern?   Josie Erzetic  32:20 Yeah, it's, it's a really, it's a good question. And again, particularly through this pandemic period, where people are looking for new hobbies, or, you know, they're at home, they're thinking about ways to renovate their house, maybe they cannot find a contractor or someone says to them, okay, it'll be months and months before somebody can get your house. So they just, they feel like, Oh, well, I could I want to do it myself. Right. So in that sense, we really remind homeowners consumers, that electricity is something that is dangerous, that you need to hire a professional to do it, there is the potential homeowners can do their own work. But in our view, it is better to hire a professional because there are safety risks inherent in the work. If homeowners are doing it themselves, then we certainly would remind them that they must take out the proper notifications with ESA, because that then has an inspector coming to their house to inspect the work. So at the very least, you want to ensure that happens. But we would say primarily, look, leave it to the professionals. So hire a licensed electrical contractor. And only a licensed electrical contracting business can be hired to do this. So when you're hiring people, we also remind folks to ask to see the accurate slash ESA license number. So that should be ever it should be on the estimates you get. It should be on their their trucks, their business cards, their ultimate invoice if you're not seeing that you could be hiring somebody that's in that underground economy that we talked about earlier. So be very careful about who you're hiring. And in this regard, obviously, ESA puts out a lot of its own information. But we also now are partnering with the Mike Holmes group. And you'll probably remember Mike Holmes He's done a lot of work on television. He does a lot of work also through social media. So he has a very large following. And so as a result, we're able to amplify the message by working with that group with Mike Holmes and his family to really get out that message that this is something maybe you don't want to take on on your own because of the safety risks. So certainly, both Mike his son, Mike Jr, and Sherry have posted both on YouTube as well as their other social channels about the importance when you're thinking about renovating to hire a licensed electrical contractor, and also the importance of ensuring you ensuring that you have ESA inspect the work. So you want to make sure at the end of the job, you get an ESA certificate of acceptance when the job's complete. So you know, it's done right. The other thing we've been noticing recently, and we've really made an effort to get the word out on this, so maybe I'll mention it here on this podcast as well, is the difference between a licensed electrical contractor, a master electrician, or what we call a C of Q, Certificate of Qualification holder, a certified electrician. Sometimes people think, oh, this person is an electrician, I'll just hire them directly know, who you need to hire is a licensed electrical contractor, because they are a business. And they were required by us to have $2 million in liability insurance, as well as the WSIB insurance coverage. So how this works is the licensed electrical contractor employs Master electricians who are responsible for overseeing the work of certified electricians, so you don't hire those folks directly. You hire the LEC, and it's important for consumer protection, because that way, if there's an injury, God forbid, or something happens in your home, then there is insurance that covers that. And the homeowner, him or herself is not responsible. So we're really working to increase awareness on the differences between the licensed electrical contracting businesses, which are who you hire, versus the master electricians or the certified electricians. I think that's very important.   Rebecca Schwartz  37:17 Great tips Josie and gotta love Mike Holmes, perhaps now a little bit more broadly, pandemic times or not what are some of the biggest challenges and opportunities that are facing the Electrical Safety Authority right now in general?   Josie Erzetic  37:32 I think I I go back to the underground economy and underground work that we we talked about earlier. So and I think we mentioned that it's just it's such a big problem, not just for our sector. But overall, I think, Rebecca, that you mentioned that you can, you know, almost buy anything in the underground market now. So you really, I think Statistics Canada estimates the underground economy is over $16 billion. That's with a B in Ontario alone. So it's just it's a big problem. And we as I said, I'd like to start a new slogan, like, let's take a bite out of the underground economy, like we really need to ensure with something like electricity, there are such safety and consumer protection issues, that this is not something you want to fool around with and leave to someone who's non licensed and not take out proper permits in this area. There's just too much at risk both with your personal safety and the safety of your home. There could be a fire that results from this. So what are we doing to really tackle this i and Daniel, I think you mentioned it earlier too. It's the Kijiji work so we're actually working a lot of people go online to find contractors. We are online and looking at those ads on Kijiji, and we will send notification to advertisers who we think are unlicensed businesses offering these types of services. If we don't get a voluntary response to take down that ad, Kijiji will forcibly remove it so big shout out to Kijiji for working with us and taking those ads down. And and if we still get repeat offenders, you wouldn't believe this people will come back and advertise again. We're prosecuting them. So we now have 20 charges pending before courts. So I would say that number one consumers do not hire unlicensed people. Be careful about who you're hiring online. We're out there we're working on it, but be careful as to see those licenses people who are doing this work illegally. I would say we are working hard to pull your ads off. Do not do this come into the licensed community. If you want to do this work, then get a license and do it properly. or we will also be looking to prosecute. So we this is important. The other thing we noticed with a high level of EV adoption, we undertook an EV charger Blitz. So we noticed that some EV charging systems that you put in your home in order to charge your vehicle were being done by unlicensed individuals and being done without permits. So we had our inspectors go out and inspect and alert both homeowners because sometimes homeowners don't know that was put in improperly and alert us to where we saw, charters being put in without permits are being put in by unlicensed contractors. And as a result, we've noticed this the period that we were looking at it this year, compared to last year, we've had almost a doubling of the amount of notifications that were taken out. So it makes a big difference when people know that we're out there. We're inspecting these things, and we expect them to be done properly and safety. And we also have an anonymous online reporting tool. So I would even say to your listeners, if you think there could be unlicensed activity going on somewhere, please let us know about it. So you can go online, you will, it's anonymous, but we do appreciate details. So we can do the follow up and investigate, you go to esasafe.com. And we found that this has been a very effective tool since we launched it in April 2020. To get reports, and I will tell people that we do follow up on 100% of the leads we get about unlicensed activity.   Dan Seguin  41:47 Okay, we've covered challenges and opportunities. What about the rise of digital communication? Has it changed your organization's ability to communicate safety messaging?   Josie Erzetic  41:59 Yeah, I'd say it, it really, really has. And we've shifted a lot of our educational campaigns on to social media, because as we alluded to earlier, we do find that is where people are looking, for example, to hire contractors, they're looking for ideas, say on renovation, you know, people will follow certain interior designers, they they will follow renovators on things like Instagram, or they'll follow them on Twitter. So we're leveraging platforms like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest, Google, Google, YouTube, all of those, because we find that that's where people are going now. But we also find there are potential dangers lurking there as well. And so we really have to monitor and be on top of those. So I'll give you an example of something that was a tic toc challenge that that we were made aware of in early 2020. And this was a challenge where that was issued over tick tock and it was basically about plugging in a phone charger. And then using either was a penny or a nickel or something to drag across the exposed prongs. And it results in in smoke and sparks and but it can also result in fire. So it this is obviously a really dangerous activity. So we became aware of it on social media. And then we use social as well as traditional media in order to educate, you know, basically parents and kids who were doing this, that this was unsafe, and they shouldn't be doing it. And we that was a very successful campaign. And we had more than 15 million views on that. And so we're very, very grateful. And, and we actually we won some awards for what we were able to do with with social media just in terms of identifying a risk and then educating people that they shouldn't be carrying engaging in this activity. And and I guess I should say to that we're also we're leveraging some new new opportunities, like a podcast like what you guys are doing here, which I applaud you for, by the way, we're trying to do the same thing.   Rebecca Schwartz  44:21 Now Josie, our listeners have made it this far. And now they want to know some ways that they can keep their electrical safety knowledge up to date. How can they do that?   Josie Erzetic  44:30 Yeah. So one way to do it is exactly what the two of you are doing with your podcast. We have our own podcast and it's really focused on electrical safety. So it's called Grounded in Ontario, and you can find it on our website at ESAsafe.com/podcast, but you can also go to typical platforms where you'd find podcasts like Apple podcasts or Spotify and located there. So we have new episodes coming out basically monthly. And we talk about things like what we've talked about here and more. So we've had an episode on pools and hot tubs and safety issues relating to that those EV supply equipment. So electrical vehicle chargers, which we also alluded to here, we also talk about arc fault and ground fault circuit interrupters. And we have a new episode that's just coming out on the underground economy, which we've also talked about. So that's a great place to get information. Also, our website has a lot of information and talks about things like do it yourself, renovations, talks about holiday safety talks about home and work safety. So I would, you know, recommend listeners go there. And I'd also always encourage people that if there are safety concerns, or you want to report activity, please go to our website, or please call us and I can give you the number, it's 1-877-372-7233. So we'd love to hear from people.   Dan Seguin  46:12 Okay, as it relates to your podcast Grounded in Ontario, I'll make sure that we post a link in our show notes, well Josie How about you close us off with some rapid fire questions? Are you ready?   Josie Erzetic  46:26 I'm ready.   Dan Seguin  46:27 Okay. What is your favorite word?   Josie Erzetic  46:30 I have to say I, I you know, obviously top of mind for me. workwise is safety. But just one of my favorite things to think about is also chocolate.   Dan Seguin  46:40 Now, what is one thing you can't live without?   Josie Erzetic  46:45 Chocolate?   Dan Seguin  46:45 What is something that challenges you   Josie Erzetic  46:48 with Rebecca, my love of chocolate? Because then I have to make sure that I you know, keep exercising or something?   Dan Seguin  46:55 If you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Josie Erzetic  47:00 I think the superpower question is always a really is a really great one. And I always I like picking flying for this one. Because then I figure it makes the commuting easier. And it would just be would it be great to just zip to your cottage fast or you know, zip to Europe or something. Especially these times where you know, travel is so difficult.   Dan Seguin  47:22 Josie This is my favorite one here. If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self. What would you tell her?   Josie Erzetic  47:29 Okay, this one, this one I am going to answer very seriously, I would say something that I say to my my kids now who are 19 and 16. And that is believe in yourself. Believe in yourself believe in what you can do. You know, trust, trust yourself. So that that I think is very important for young people to remember.   Dan Seguin  47:53 And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in this sector?   Josie Erzetic  47:59 Um, so I would say it's it's the pace of change. I just think our sector the energy sector is just fascinating. Right now we've talked about things like electrification of transportation, and the speed of the adoption there. We think of things like energy storage, the growth of renewables, I think of distribute, you know, distributed energy resources. I think it's fascinating. We're all concerned about climate change. So we're thinking about how we can reduce our carbon footprint, what, what role does energy play in that? What What will it look like 2030 4050 years from now where we might have entire communities that are doing things like net metering, we might have, you know, renewable generation, within a smaller community, or just you'll have solar panels on your roof, you'll have an energy storage system in your basement, you'll have an Eevee charging outside. So I think that is fascinating. I think energy is so fundamental to how we live and maybe how we'll deal with fundamental global issues like the climate crisis. And so ESA is part of that. I think it's so exciting, because you need to have all of that working safely. So the role we play is fascinating. So that's what I just find hugely fascinating and challenging about our sector.   Rebecca Schwartz  49:25 Well, Josie, we reached the end of another episode of The think energy podcast. Thanks so much for joining Dan and I today. We hope you had fun.   Josie Erzetic  49:33 I had a great time with you guys. Thanks so much. Really appreciate it.   Rebecca Schwartz  49:38 I sure hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. If so please head over to our iTunes SUBSCRIBE And leave us a review.   Dan Seguin  49:46 Now For show notes and bonus content visit hydroottawa.com/thinkenergy. Also, be sure to tell your friends and colleagues about us. Thank you for listening
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Nov 8, 2021 • 27min

Innovating the Grid through Distributed Energy Resources

New considerations for innovating how electricity is generated, distributed, and stored are being made every day. This includes the development and implementation of distributed energy resources - a promising solution for increasing the integration of clean energy. How will distributed energy resources help us reach our climate change targets, and what changes will be needed in order for the grid to support them? Vice President of the Alectra Green Energy & Technology Centre, Neetika Sathe, is here with us today to give us the scoop. Related Content & Links:  Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neetika-sathe-08ab644/ --- Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:51 Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast and today we'll explore and unpack distributed energy. I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:00 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz. You know, Dan, I've been thinking a lot about climate change.   Dan Seguin  01:04 Oh, boy, here comes another millennial rant.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:07 No, no, no, don't worry, I'm actually feeling grateful. Because when it comes to innovating, how we live and operate in order to stop and reverse climate change. Of course, Canada's goal is pretty ambitious and admirable. Canada's plans to be a netzero nation by 2050. I think it's pretty cool.   Dan Seguin  01:23 Absolutely very cool. And the City of Ottawa has also announced plans to be a zero emission city by 2050.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:31 To be honest, it feels like that's a lifetime away, since it's quite literally as many years away as I've been alive. But it's incredible news and evidence that our governments are committed to a decarbonized future.   Dan Seguin  01:42 and utilities! They're also gearing up at the front lines to align with these goals, especially in the electricity sector. New considerations for innovating how electricity is generated, distributed, and store are being made every day. This includes the development and implementation of distributed energy resources, a promising solution for increasing the integration of clean energy. Unlike the typical electricity journey, where it's supplied to customers from a centralized source, distributed energy resources are a means for customers to store their own generated electricity, which they can then choose to redirect the access back into the grid. Because this concept is quite different from how the grid was originally designed, a great deal of innovation and testing is required to ensure its continued reliability and safety.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:42 The people behind the Alectra green energy and technology center strongly believe in building a clean energy future and embracing new technologies. Now putting this belief into action, they have been leading the way for the development of emerging clean and customer friendly energy solutions, like distributed energy resources across their 1800 square kilometer service territory that serves approximately 1 million homes and businesses within 17 communities like Mississauga, St. Catharines and Hamilton.   Dan Seguin  03:11 So, Rebecca, here's today's big question: How will distributed energy resources help us reach our climate change targets, and what changes will be needed in order for the grid to support them? Vice President of Alectra green energy and technology center, the Neetika Sathe is here with us today to give us the scoop. Hey Neetika, welcome to the think energy podcast. Perhaps you can start us off by telling us a bit more about your role with electric Green Energy Technology Center.   Neetika Sathe  03:50 Hey, first of all, thank you so much for inviting me I can't tell you how excited I am to be here and for the opportunity to share my perspective and and the journey within the GRE&T Center. So for those of you who don't know, electric is the second largest municipally owned utility in all of North America, we serve over a million customers in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area. within Alectra we launched the green energy and technology center in 2019 with a mandate to identify, evaluate and develop and accelerate emerging clean and customer friendly energy solutions. So think of us as the ground floor for innovation within Alectra, where clean energy ideas come to life.   Rebecca Schwartz  04:39 Thanks, Neetika. Now can you tell our listeners a bit about distributed energy resources, such as how they work and also provide a couple examples?   Neetika Sathe  04:48 Sure. So distributed energy resources, which we fondly call DERs are usually referred to smaller, clean generation units that are usually located within the customer's premises, the customer could be residential, or commercial or institutional. But typically those distributed energy resources are on the customer side on the other side of the meter, and interconnected with the grid. So to give you some examples, could be rooftop solar panels, wind generating units, wind turbines, battery storage, could be your lithium ion battery storage, smart heat pumps and even electric vehicles, basically, essentially any device that can be integrated and connected to the local distribution, system or grid that is within the proximity of the customer, and possibly owned, possibly operated by the customer.   Dan Seguin  05:58 Could you tell our listeners what makes distributed energy resources an attractive option? As we strive towards our net zero goals? Are they enough to help us get there.   Neetika Sathe  06:10 So netzero goals are rather lofty and extremely aspirational. So now the whole world is looking around trying to find those low hanging fruits that can get us to our netzero goals. The beauty of DERs is that they are largely clean, dispatchable, scalable, easy to integrate into the grid provided, we work on it upfront, if we catch the DERs. As an aftereffect, it's going to cause a lot of issues for the grid. So we have a generational opportunity to ensure that the ER is integrated properly into the grid. Because these are clean and sustainable, they hold a great promise in helping us reduce GHG emissions. And that would contribute towards net zero goals. So rather than talk at high level, let's take an example, solar panels on the roof to help meet the needs of a home, the same home could have a battery storage unit and electric vehicles. And going further, when when both is distributed energy resources are used to feed the local grid. So when there is a time of high GHG Emission emissions from the grid, we could switch over to these local DERs, we could ask the customers for their support to switch over to these clean local DERs and not need to switch on or power on the natural gas or any other fossil fuel large generation. And as a result, by the use of these DERs, we could eliminate GHG emissions from the energy systems.   Rebecca Schwartz  07:57 So what does having distributed energy resources look like from the customer's perspective? Do they necessitate any lifestyle changes? And what are some of the benefits.   Neetika Sathe  08:08 So traditionally, our customers have had a passive engagement. Typically, as customers, even when we go home, we flip the switch and we don't think about it what all is happening in the background to get those electrons into our home, to give us light or to power the TV or any other appliances. But as we are moving more towards a decentralized grid, as the technology options are coming up, as energy solutions are coming up with the DERs, the customer expectations are also changing. So they're literally being able to put the customer in the driver's seat, no pun intended as they drive electric. So they can now make the choice of when they want to use their own distributed energy resources. And when they want to purchase from the grid. So think of it as the customer becoming from a passive customer to a prosumer. Whereby they can be a producer of energy or a consumer of energy. And the choice is theirs. They make the call. So it's and the DERs of the customers could have they could have smart appliances, electric vehicle storage, solar roof or ground roof solar and and really being able to integrate all of this now does it mean any lifestyle change for the customer? I guess the trick is that all of this needs to be technology enabled. So think of it as a very high tech, yet high touch. In other words, the technology needs to do what the customers want. So the customer needs to continue having the lifestyle that they choose their choice. But the difference now is there is technology set in forget technology that enables them to have more choice than just the traditional electricity grid. So this is in stark contrast of the past, our electricity generation over centuries has been better customer has strictly been a passive receiver of energy,   Dan Seguin  10:25 Alectra's green energy and technology center has a number of pilot projects, such as this is a mouthful, folks, the York Region Non-wires, alternative demonstration project, and the powerhouse hybrid project. Can you tell us about the main intent behind these projects, and what your findings have been so far?   Neetika Sathe  10:49 So at the GRE&T Center, we always want to innovate with intention. And the intention behind the pilots is always look for Win Win Win solution, we're never satisfied with one win, it needs to be the first win has got to be for the customer. It's got to work for the customer, customer friendly, meaningful, purposeful, relevant, otherwise, it's not going to stick it'll just be a science experiment. The second win has to be for the grid, especially when you're talking with respect to DERs, the proliferation of the DERs, there needs to be a thoughtful and planned integration into the grid. And only then can you get a huge benefit out of the DERs for the customer and the grid. The third win is for all of society, and we're at times where climate change is no longer an 'if', and we're all looking for solutions that that we can that can make a difference within our generation, otherwise, the future generations won't have a planet to depend on. So our intention with all of the GRE&T center pilots, whether it's the IESO non buyers, alternative pilot, or the powerhouse of powerhouse hybrid grid exchange be working on multiple platforms and and solutions. It's got to be it's got to be a win across board.   Rebecca Schwartz  12:31 Okay. Now, can you tell us how projects like these are influencing and innovating the grid?   Neetika Sathe  12:37 The conversation is focused on the need for reform, transformation and regulatory change. But until you don't roll up your sleeves and actually work on it, you got to be able to get into the trenches. It's really difficult to forecast what all roadblocks and hot points you're going to gather along the way. So the whole idea is that when we're talking about the need for policy change, the need for regulatory change that we bring real time experience from our pilots into our discussion so that those discussions can be grounded in reality, otherwise, there is a lot of vaporware in the industry right now.   Dan Seguin  13:21 What are some of the biggest modernizations you foresee being made to the grid by 2050? How is digitisation influencing these processes?   Neetika Sathe  13:33 So the grid is going to get much smarter, wiser, more intelligent, and more connected. If anything, or industry is a little bit late to the party, and we've and we have the good fortune, or the luxury of learning from other industries where this disruption has already happened. Be in the taxi industry, the banking industry, retail industry, hotel industry, they're all being transformed by digitalization. And they're all banking on one basic fundamental shift in demographics - the openness for sharing economy. So whether it's an Airbnb or you look at Uber, you have democratization of their solutions, whereby a common citizen is willing to share their assets, or their comfort or their lifestyle, as long as they're getting rewarded and incentivized in a way that works for them. So in other words, you've got a car that's sitting around, you're only driving around 4% utilization of that asset, but then you've got a little extra time. You don't mind becoming an Uber driver. And you're you're gregarious, you like hanging around people. So it works for you and you make some money. Think of those kinds of concepts now coming into our energy world, whereby that's where, that's how the birth of the concept of transactive energy takes place, whereby I talked earlier about the customer becoming a prosumer. But now those prosumers with their own distributed energy resources, should be able to play in an energy market and give some and get some. So you may be able to give some of your comfort or your or your battery storage, because the grid needs it, but then the LDC may reward you back with some dollars or some loyalty points. In fact, we are teasing this very concept out with our grid exchange transactive energy platform,   Rebecca Schwartz  15:53 Supposing everyone suddenly started putting their hands up to have distributed energy resources, would it even be possible? What are the challenges that we'll need to overcome to start seeing their mainstream adoption all across Canada?   Neetika Sathe  16:07 So the answer to this question is very similar to a Facebook status update, it's complicated. The devil truly is in the details at the distribution feeder, or transformer level, or even at a green transformer at a street level, it is impossible to generalize across Ontario or across Canada. So it really depends on the state of the grid infrastructure. If the grid infrastructure has room, it's easy to add the DERs. But if the infrastructure is already at its limit, be a thermal limit, voltage, capacity, then you're going to run out of you're going to need to think out of the box solution. So I'll give you an example. On your street, if you've got, let's say 12 homes, if one of those neighbors buys electric and starts driving electric starts charging the car, when they come home at five o'clock, no big deal, your green transformer on your street will be able to take that additional 10-12 Whatever that kilo kilowatt load turns out to be. Now, but out of 12 of those homes, let's say five electric vehicles come along. Now that green transformer at five o'clock is going to go toast, it will burn down because we would have taken it beyond its capacity limits. So how do you ensure that you can add these DERs on the existing grid keep in mind the existing grid was never designed for this kind of additional load, right. But there is a need whether it is because of democratization or decentralization, people want those energy choices, then as the utilities, it's our job to ensure that we are able to onboard these distributed energy resources. And the way to do it is start thinking outside the box. For example, perhaps we stagger, we work closely with the customer, we engage the customer, we take their permission, so the customer needs to remain in the driver's seat, we take their permission, maybe some customers say I really don't care if I start charging at five o'clock, or you want to start charging me at nine o'clock, as long as my car is fully charged for my trip tomorrow morning to work. Yet some other customer may say my wife's expecting and I may need to rush to the hospital, so I want to override and I want my car charged right now no matter what the consequences are. So the beauty with DERs is the fragmented. Think of them, like these hundreds of 1000s of minions out there that you could literally you could you know, like you could run a virtual power plant, if you were only able to talk to all of them, If only you were able to monitor control and engage with the customer one on one with these. And that's where the power comes from. It's really the power of shared economy and put intelligence on top of it to be able to really engage on a two way conversation with the customer and harness the value from these DERs. So hence the need from a smart grid so that these DERs don't exert demand all at the same time. So you can stagger them, you can queue them up, you can toggle them, you can throttle them. There are so many different options. intelligent ways to work around the problem rather than just go to the basic let's just upgrade all the infrastructure which will be tremendously expensive.   Rebecca Schwartz  20:10 Do you perceive maintenance becoming an issue as the system becomes more decentralized?   Neetika Sathe  20:16 So there are there are pros and cons to decentralization. Definitely grid modernization will require some infrastructure cost and some maintenance cost - it's going to be a new regime, different from your traditional way of running the grid. And keep in mind right now our systems rest at night. And the peak usually happens within Ontario. It happens during summer, during sunny days, because our peak is mainly coming from air conditioning loads. However, if we go into deep decarbonisation, and we want to run in heating on electricity, we are quickly going to turn from a summer day peaking province to a winter night peaking province. So that's going to look very different. And I don't have the answer, what the repercussion will be on on the system maintenance, but it is going to be a very different kind of a grid to operate.   Dan Seguin  21:22 I'm wondering if you could expand on some of the features that make the home or business a better candidate for distributed energy resources? What are some of the determining factors.   Neetika Sathe  21:34 So it all depends on the needs of the individual home or business. So in some cases, it's very simple. If you want to put solar panels on your roof, you probably if you have a 15 year old roof, or 20 year old roof, you probably want to change your roof before you put the panels up. And if you've got a large tree that is shading your roof and you don't want to cut that trim that tree down your roof is probably not the optimum optimal place to put that solar. So it's some of it is very intuitive. When it comes to electric vehicles, for example, it really depends on how you what your driving patterns are. 60% of Canadian drivers are driving less than 60 kilometers a day. But law of averages does not work when you're looking at a specific person's needs. So if you are traveling across cities every day, you've got you're putting a lot of clicks on your car, and you only have one car within the family. Probably the current EVs are not a good fit for you. But having said that, models are coming up where the batteries battery sizes are increasing. And the infrastructure for charging on the road on route is also increasing. But if you are a household of two cars, and you you're you drive 50-60 to 100-150 kilometers a day, you actually are a fantastic candidate to drive electric and enjoy the benefits of a cleaner drive and a much more fun to drive experience. So it really depends on the specific DER and how it matches up with your lifestyle.   Rebecca Schwartz  23:22 Alright, so how might someone who was interested in adopting distributed energy resources for their homes or business get the ball rolling?   Neetika Sathe  23:30 Do your research. Learn whichever best way you learn for me I love hanging around people I learned best by talking to people. If you if you're looking for EVs talk to someone who's driving an EV if you learn better by you know going for test drives and going for demonstrations like go to, for example plug and drive has an experiential center in Toronto or go to any of the dealers and ask for a test drive. There are so many websites including Aletra we have a website where we put a ton of resources on EVs. Alectra.com/e-mobility, so there's a lot of information out there. You do you Whatever floats your boat, but do your research and start whetting your appetite to figure out how what kind of DERS will fit your lifestyle.   Dan Seguin  24:25 Hey Nitika we're just about done. How about we close off with some rapid fire questions? What is your favorite word?   Neetika Sathe  24:35 It's got to be collaborate.   Dan Seguin  24:38 What is the one thing you can't live without   Neetika Sathe  24:42 Probably oxygen.   Dan Seguin  24:43 What is something that challenges you?   Neetika Sathe  24:47 purposeful innovation - how to innovate with intention   Dan Seguin  24:51 If you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Neetika Sathe  24:54 The ability to travel across time.   Dan Seguin  24:57 If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old What would you tell her?   Neetika Sathe  25:01 I would say don't over analyze. It's, it's not the destination that's important. The journey is important, not the destination. And the most important thing is the people that you meet and go along at on the journey.   Dan Seguin  25:19 And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector,   Neetika Sathe  25:24 I came into the utility sector because I sniffed a generational opportunity. I was, I was at Nissan, launching the Nissan LEAF, the first all electric 100% electric car from Nissan. And that's when my eyes opened up to this huge possibility of, of the automotive sector making a difference actual make actually making a difference in, in our sustainability. And really, it's the it's the power of discovering the possibilities. I know it's, it's a cliched line, this is Alectra's slugline, but I so totally believe in it, collaborating and discovering the possibilities, we actually have a generational opportunity to make a difference. And for once our electricity sector, for the most part in Canada, at least definitely in Ontario. And as you mentioned in Quebec, we are the part of the solution. We are not the problem, we bring the solution. So that's what really really excites me about our sector.   Rebecca Schwartz  26:33 Well latika, we've reached the end of another episode of The think energy podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. We hope you had fun. I sure hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. If so please head over to our iTunes SUBSCRIBE And leave us a review.   Dan Seguin  26:51 Now For show notes and bonus content visit ThinkEnergy.com. Also, be sure to tell your friends and colleagues about us.   Rebecca Schwartz  26:59 Thank you for listening
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Oct 25, 2021 • 28min

EV-olving Transportation

The Government of Canada has mandated that 100 per cent of car and passenger truck sales be zero-emission by 2035. All kinds of measures will be required to support this transportation evolution. Are Canadians ready to embrace this relatively quick transition over to EVs? What are all the barriers? And, do Canadian businesses and municipalities have a role to play in the EV evolution? Cara Clairman, President and CEO at Plug'nDrive (and a prominent leader in the EV space) joins us to share her unique perspective. Related Content & Links:  Find your EV match (total cost of ownership tool): https://ev.plugndrive.ca/ Book a test drive with Plug'n Drive: https://www.plugndrive.ca/electric-vehicle-discovery-centre/ Used EV rebate program: https://www.plugndrive.ca/used-electric-vehicles/ ZEVIP (NRCan funding program for infrastructure): https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy-efficiency/transportation-alternative-fuels/zero-emission-vehicle-infrastructure-program/21876 Federal EV incentive program: https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-technologies/zero-emission-vehicles Cara Clairman - Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cara-clairman-84967318/ --- Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:02 Hey, everyone, I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  00:04 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz, both from Hydro Ottawa.   Dan Seguin  00:07 Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the think energy podcast. And on today's episode, we'll tackle EV-olution of transportation. I'm Dan Seguin.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:02 And I'm Rebecca Schwartz. Hey, Dan, you have an electric vehicle, right?   Dan Seguin  01:06 I sure do.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:07 I'm curious. What's your experience been? Like? Would you recommend an EV for your one and only favorite co host?   Dan Seguin  01:13 Huh? Haha. I would 100% recommend one. I love my little EV. I've actually owned two. And now my wife has just ordered her very own. I have no regrets.   Rebecca Schwartz  01:28 That's good to know. Now, if I could just get a solid pay raise, I'll be able to afford one. Hint hint nudge nudge.   Dan Seguin  01:35 Hmm. I have some great news about that, Rebecca. First. Both the feds and some provinces have great incentive programs. With these rebates, EVs are really much more affordable. In fact, as part of Canada's goal to help fight climate change, there are plans to make owning these zero emission vehicle more accessible than ever before, through addressing affordability and adequate infrastructure. Today's guest will have lots more to say about that.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:09 Whoo visions of having my very own EV are getting a little bit more clear. You have my attention go on.   Dan Seguin  02:15 In fact, the pressures on the Government of Canada has mandated 100% of car and passenger truck sales be zero emission by 2035. All kinds of measures will be required to support this transportation evolution. Everything from incentives for zero emission vehicles, to investments in infrastructure to partnerships with auto manufacturers are being pursued.   Rebecca Schwartz  02:40 Wow, that seems so soon. But that's exciting. There are so many more things I'd like to know and ask. So here's today's big questions. Are Canadians ready to embrace this relatively quick transition over to EV's? What are the barriers and do Canadian businesses and municipalities have a role to play in the EV evolution?   Dan Seguin  03:00 Joining us today we have Cara Clairman, CEO and President at Plug'n Drive, and a prominent leader in the EV space. She's here today to provide us with all of the answers. Cara, welcome to the show. Maybe you could start by telling us a bit about your organization and its mandate.   Cara Clairman  03:26 thanks so much, Dan, for for inviting me to do this. Plugn' Drive is a not for profit. So we're out there trying to educate consumers on the environmental and economic benefits of switching to an electric car. And so most of our work revolves revolves around that outreach and education to help people make the switch.   Rebecca Schwartz  03:46 The Government of Canada has set what some might call an aggressive mandate for 100% of new light duty vehicle sales to be zero emissions by 2035. Why has Canada set this mandate? And how does it play into the larger picture of net zero by 2050.   Cara Clairman  04:01 So I'm sure a lot of your listeners will know that. Transportation is actually one of the largest emitting sectors not just here in Canada, but pretty much everywhere around the world. And in fact, in many provinces of Canada, transportation is the number one largest emitter larger than industry larger than buildings. And so we really can't achieve our climate goals if we don't tackle transportation. So of course, tackling transportation is a few a few different things, not just EV but EV is a ready technology that's here that would really really help in terms of reducing emissions from consumer vehicles, as well as now some medium and even heavy duty. And this opportunity is huge because if you just take Ontario for example. You know, our number one emission source is transportation and our electricity grid is already extremely clean. We're about 95% emission reduction if we switch to EVs, because our electricity grid here is already about 90 plus percent free of greenhouse gas emissions. And that's true in many provinces of Canada. So if you look at our electricity grid across the country, you have, you know, a number of provinces that are hydro only. So it's, you know, BC, Quebec, Manitoba. And so if you look across the country, we're already about 80% GHG free pretty much. And so it's just such a perfect match with the with improving the emissions from transportation. Across Canada, we have an extremely clean energy grid. And if you think about our electricity here in Ontario, it's mostly nuclear and hydro, a little bit of solar and wind, a very small amount of natural gas. So we're already about only 5%, five to 8% fossil fuel on the grid. So plugging into our cars into that grid offers a huge emission reduction at about 90 to 95%. So as a long way of saying, you know, requiring new EV sales is a relatively easy way for the government to start making the transition for the transportation personal vehicle fleet, and would allow Canada actually to achieve the net zero by 2050, which it really can't do if it doesn't tackle transportation.   Dan Seguin  06:34 Now, Cara, are you able to expand on how Canada's zero emission vehicle mandates compare globally? Are we on par with other countries?   Cara Clairman  06:44 Well, I'll answer that question sort of in two parts. How we are now compared to the globe and other countries and how we will be right now I'd say we're a bit behind. Because we don't have an aggressive enough, set of EV policies, and we have quite a patchwork across the country in terms of provincial policies. And so our adoption rates are actually on the low side relative to a lot of other countries, I'd say we stand around 10th right now, you know, in comparison to other countries that have, you know, better policies than we have. However, the policy of zero emission new sales, right, that's just new sales, we'll still have gas cars around for quite a while. zero emission, new sales by 2035 is, is quite progressive. And I would say it's not the most aggressive policy, there are a few countries ahead of us, like Norway has, you know, a mandate for 2025. And there are a number of European countries that have set 2030. But 2035 is definitely in the pack, I would say in terms of leadership in the top, you know, 10 or 15 countries. What we really need to do though, is make this a law, you know, right now, we just have a sort of a vague commitment to it. And until it's legislated, it really doesn't have a lot of meaning.   Rebecca Schwartz  08:16 What are some of the main barriers to zero emission vehicle adoption?   Cara Clairman  08:20 Okay, well, there's lots of barriers still remaining, although we're making lots of good progress. We did a survey about four years ago. And I think the results probably would hold true today as well, asking people about about what was preventing them from choosing an electric vehicle. And actually, the number one barrier was price, which surprised us we expected people to say range or lack of public infrastructure or something like that. But three to one, they actually said, they thought EV's were too expensive. And so we know that the upfront sticker price is is a problem for people, it is still a bit more expensive than the equivalent gas car. What people don't really know is that the total cost of ownership of an EV even at today's prices is less. But it's always a challenge to help people understand you're going to pay more now and save later. And we have to help people see the advantage of doing that. So I would say you know cost and then also education because you have to help people understand that total cost of ownership over time. And actually, to help consumers on that specific point we've, we've put a really great new tool on our website called find your EV match, which really helps you see the total cost of ownership for for electric vehicles income and you can even compare an Eevee to your existing gas car that you currently drive and see your monthly savings. And so this is a really, really important point. I would also say of course, you know, we do need more infrastructure. And there still is some range hesitancy concern. But I really believe that the range issue is going away as an issue as the battery technology improves. And of course, as public infrastructure improves,   Dan Seguin  10:14 okay, Cara - How is your organization working to build consumer awareness and education to help remove consumer concerns around EVs?   Cara Clairman  10:24 Well, I mean, Dan, this is what we're doing every single day. You know, we've built our whole program around helping the consumer get over their concerns. And so we're quite accustomed to every single concern and question people have. And basically we do it in a couple of ways. We have our EV Discovery Center in Toronto, which is, you know, a bricks and mortar facility, people can come learn all about EVs, no pressure to buy anything, and test drive the latest make some models. And we have found through our research that the test drive is key to helping people get over their concerns. And that's been a bit of a challenge during COVID, although we are back to doing test drive. And then secondly, we have our mobile EV Discovery Center or our MEET, which we take two smaller cities and towns all over to sort of bring the EV Discovery Center concept to them. And so that's a great opportunity for people to learn again, and a no pressure environment is fun. And then we have our roadshow, which you know, where we go out to even further afield a locations for a day or two days to give people the chance where they may not have any, for example, and EV dealers in their community. So we're really trying to reach everyone. And so that so those are the main things that we do. And I would just add the the other program that we have that we find is really helping consumers is our used EV program, which has a rebate attached to it. And we're doing this online through webinars. But it's to help people understand who who had that idea. Oh, you know, I love TV, but I think it's just too expensive for me, to help them understand that use TVs are a great opportunity affordable and available. And in the webinar we run through a you know sort of everything you need to know to choose the use EV that's right for you. And then plug and drive is offering $1,000 rebate to anyone who lives in Ontario if you buy a used EV   Dan Seguin  12:27 Eondering if you can tell us about plugging drives electric vehicle Discovery Center, and what goes on there?   Cara Clairman  12:33 So the Discovery Center is as I said, at bricks and mortar facilities, sort of imagined Science Center meets car showroom, you want to see some photos of it, you can just check it out on plugndrive.ca. And the great thing there is it's you know, interactive fun, like I said, like a science center, people come just for fun to learn. And of course, we aren't selling cars. So people don't have that pressure that they feel they sometimes have when they go to a dealership. And then we have all the makes and models sitting right there for people to test drive. And that test drive is so key to helping someone get over their concerns. Because a lot of the times people have a preconceived notion about what an EV might be like. And they don't realize like how fun it is to drive and that these are really fantastic vehicles with great pickup. And it kind of just reminds people of the quality and the fun. And then we can run through with them how much money they're going to save then the emission reductions. And our stats tell the story. About 35% of the people after visiting the center, within six months have bought an electric car.   Rebecca Schwartz  13:41 How can Canadian businesses support the transition to electric vehicles? And how can they acquire access to the proper funding?   Cara Clairman  13:48 Yeah, we've started doing a lot of work with businesses. And what we find is, you know, number one, what they can do is look at workplace charging, we know that the home is the number one place people want to charge about 80% of us plug in our cars at home at night, take advantage of low time of use prices. It's where it's convenient, all those reasons. But the second place people want to charge is that work. And actually studies out of California have shown that if someone sees a charger at work, and then talks to a colleague who has an EV at work, they're six times more likely to adopt an electric car. So one of the great things that business can do is put in some workplace charging and then also do some education around using that charging and help their employees get on board. And some businesses are even offering an incentive to their employees to consider an EV especially companies that are looking at their own GHG reduction targets and transportation might be one of the main emitters of their organizations. So they can use those charges for their own fleet. They can electrify their own fleet that way, and they can help their employees. So those are a couple of ways businesses can help support the transition. And then you've asked about access to funding there, there is some funding through NRCan the program is called ZEVIP where businesses can apply to get some funding for workplace tight charging systems,   Dan Seguin  15:25 it would seem that municipalities across Canada have a large part to play to support the government's mandate and to make charging stations more accessible. In your experience. Has this been the case? What's your view on the role municipalities play in the electrification of transit?   Cara Clairman  15:43 Yeah, municipalities do have an important role to play and I think they are starting to recognize it more and more. So for example, one role that municipalities are playing and it's proving really important is in terms of standards for multi unit buildings. So for example, a municipality can require a certain green standard for condos or multi unit buildings being built in their territory and that will ensure that the you know Ruffin is there for the plugs in future and that new buildings will get built with you know, with the ability or sort of EV ready to help their citizens because let's face it, especially in the Greater Toronto Area, a lot of people live in multi unit and we need to make it possible for these people to plug in. There's other roles they can play for example, we're seeing a lot of municipalities set up you know their own EV policies for their you know, for public parking, for example, street parking for, for different, making certain municipal lots available for charging, there's there's lots of ways that municipalities can help. And there are, you know, through the associations, there's sharing, I know of EV policies across municipalities, they don't have to reinvent the wheel.   Rebecca Schwartz  17:06 All right, Cara, can you talk to us about Canada's electric highway? Can we actually drive our east coast to coast?   Cara Clairman  17:14 Yes, you can. It's still not that easy, I have to say. But the thing I always want to remind is that this is not a trip that many people are doing. You know, maybe some of us have done it once in our life or, you know, it's the thing that happens very rarely. So it's not as critical. It's more of again, it's it's a nice to do, it's sort of a psychological thing. People think, Oh, it's great if you can, it's still a challenge, but doable and getting easier. You know, it's something that I would say, you know, it's not a trip I'm ever going to do. And I mean, I drive my car just more locally. So I wouldn't want people to hesitate getting an EV because this isn't the easiest trip to bake.   Dan Seguin  18:02 It seems that national sales of V's are closing in on 4%. What are your recommendations to accelerate the deployment of electric vehicles in Canada?   Cara Clairman  18:12 Well, there's just a whole bunch of things we need to do. So for example, right now in British Columbia, we're hovering around 10% of new sales, Quebec close to 8%. Ontario, we're down at 2%. And so you can see that the variability in the different policies are leading to very different results. And so there's a couple of things we need to make some consistency across Canada, because what happens when you have certain provinces with really aggressive policies and certain policies, provinces without it, the vehicle supply goes to those provinces with the more aggressive policies, and then it's really hard for people, for example, in Ontario, to get vehicles, and so that ZEV mandate or ZED standard that the federal government is talking about is really important for making, you know, some more consistency across the whole country. So I'm very supportive of that. I'd also like to see some consistent building codes across the country. It seems ridiculous that in 2021, where we still have condos and apartment buildings being built with no potential for EV charging in the future, and it's so much more expensive to do a retrofit than to do it when you're building a building. So the building codes need to be updated to make sure that the buildings are required to at least rough in for EV charging in the future. So that's another really, really important one. And then, you know, we, you know, I'd like to say that the time of needing incentives is over, it isn't over. We still do need incentives for the next couple of years. I think we're going to hit price parity in a few years time and then we won't need them anymore. But for now, I think we do it Because the environmental benefit is so large, I think it makes sense that governments continue to support it.   Dan Seguin  20:06 What about charging stations is charging infrastructure rolling out at the pace to support the transition to 100% zero emission vehicle sales by 2035?   Cara Clairman  20:18 Well, we do still have more work to do in the area of public charging. But again, I'm one of those people who doesn't think this is as critical to the rollout as some other things. You know, as an EV, driver, and Dan, you said, you're also an EV driver, we're charging at home, most of us are charging at home. And we are very occasionally using public charging. I only use public charging a few times a year. And I think I'm pretty typical on a road trip or work trip. And so you do need more infrastructure. We can't have single chargers out there. You know, we need to multiply those we need them to be in strategic locations. We need them to be in places where you can grab a bite to eat and use facilities and all that. So there's work to do, but I'm not of the view that this is a primary barrier to EV adoption. Really, the infrastructure you need is at home and it's ready right now.   Rebecca Schwartz  21:18 Cara, can you tell us a bit about the sentiment among automotive manufacturers? Are they embracing the transition to a EV's at all?   Cara Clairman  21:25 Well, we're certainly I mean, you really can't turn on your news or open your your apps, which is how most of us probably get our news these days without seeing a new announcement. So we certainly are seeing the commitment to EVs. In the future, where there's a bit of a struggle, I would say as sort of right now. Right now in Canada supply extremely low, it's quite difficult to get vehicles, all the manufacturers are ramping up. But that doesn't happen overnight. And so, you know, we need to do a bit more to get the vehicles in here right now. The exciting thing is, you know, here in Ontario, we're going to be making EV's in the next couple of years. And so the supply challenge will get fixed. And and then we're going to see, I think, you know, just massive changes, but for now the next year to two years, we definitely have a struggle to to bring in the vehicles. And we have to show to the automakers that Canada is a good place for EV adoption, because of course they send the vehicles where they think the best opportunity is to sell them.   Dan Seguin  22:29 Cara - Just wondering what should consumers know about zero emissions vehicles today? How has technology evolved over the past few years? And are there funding opportunities for consumers looking to purchase one?   Cara Clairman  22:43 Well, of course, I want people to know that. EVs are a fantastic option right now what I hear from a lot of consumers, which which is helpful is you know, yes, EVs are the future, I'm sure that we're all going to be driving EVs, but what I think a lot of people don't realize is that they're totally ready for primetime right now. Fantastic quality, good range, everything you really need is already there. And of course, the fun and the super great pickup and all those things too. And so I think, you know, people shouldn't hesitate, that that when they're ready for new car, this should be it in terms of funding opportunities. I would say, you know, of course, the federal government still has its $5,000 rebate available. And as we you know, in the election, we basically got the same government and they have committed to continue that so we know that will continue. Some provinces have a provincial incentive that layers on top of that. Unfortunately, we don't have that in Ontario right now, which is makes us a little bit of a laggard. Compared to other provinces, there are now six provinces with rebates, which makes it hard for Ontario to attract vehicles. So when people go looking for a vehicle, they're challenged to find one. What I would tell consumers that are looking for one and don't want to have to get on a waiting list is to look at the used market. There's a lot of great options in the used market right now. And of course, as I said, plugin drive has $1,000 incentive to buy a used EV and an extra $1,000 if you scrap an old gas car and buy used EV so so that's a great option if you can't find the new vehicle that you're looking for.   Rebecca Schwartz  24:28 In your view, Cara, what does the future of Canada look like when it comes to zero emission vehicles?   Cara Clairman  24:34 Well, I think I think pretty much everyone has realized even the most Die Hard sort of auto analysts who really really hesitated on EVs in terms of their reporting. I think even they have realized like this is coming there's no stopping it. The question mark is like how fast and I think groups like mine and other other EV sort of Advocacy type groups are really it's all about how can we get this transition to happen faster because if you agree that climate change is a crisis, we really can't wait for sort of a slow market transition, we need to do everything we can to speed it up. So if that includes incentives, that includes building codes, that includes ZEV mandate policies, that includes all sorts of local initiatives to try to encourage people to speed it up. But I do feel very optimistic that you know, we are going to see a huge swaying in the direction of EVs even by 2030.   Dan Seguin  25:37 Okay, Cara, how about we close off with some rapid fire questions?   Cara Clairman  25:42 Okay, skip the skip the favorite word. I really didn't have one.   Dan Seguin  25:46 What is the one thing you can't live without?   Cara Clairman  25:50 Coffee   Dan Seguin  25:50 What is something that challenges you?   Cara Clairman  25:53 Something that challenges me? Well, I mean, I guess the reality is in a nonprofit setting, you're always you're always having to raise money. And so that's always a challenge for anybody in the NGO sector. That's that's probably our biggest challenge.   Dan Seguin  26:09 If you could have one superpower, what would it be?   Cara Clairman  26:14 Well, I think I would love the teleportation oh my gosh, you know, I love EVs. But let's face it, there's still cars. And, you know, they still contribute to gridlock and traffic and all that and would just be so awesome to be able to just teleport to some other location.   Dan Seguin  26:32 Now, Cara, if you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self? What would you tell her?   Cara Clairman  26:39 I would tell her to do more public speaking. Who knew I would end up you know, doing so much public speaking in my career, I really didn't get started until I was much older. And I feel like it's a useful skill for any job just to feel confident talking in front of other people, whether that's five people or 500 people. So I would definitely say get yourself in front of an audience and practice public speaking.   Dan Seguin  27:06 And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector?   Cara Clairman  27:12 Oh, my gosh, my sector is so fascinating. You know, it's funny because I come from the electricity sector as you do. And I think there's a lot of people with this idea. That's kind of an old, stodgy, boring sector. And so I find it so exciting that there's so many opportunities for innovation. And it's not just EV, it's storage, and renewables, and there's just there's just so much of interest happening in the electricity sector. I hope young people are really looking at it for future career options.   Rebecca Schwartz  27:43 Alright, Cara, we've reached the end of another episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. Thanks so much for joining us today. We hope you had fun.   Cara Clairman  27:50 I did. Thank you so much for having me.   Dan Seguin  27:53 We reached the end of another episode of The think energy podcast. Again, thank you for joining us today. And Rebecca. I hope you had a lot of fun.   Rebecca Schwartz  28:03 I did. Thanks for having me.   Dan Seguin  28:04 Rebecca and I will be co hosting going forward in 2021. Thanks for joining us. See you folks.

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