Avoiding Babylon

Want to reach out to us? Want to leave a comment or review? Want to give us a suggestion or berate Anthony? Send us a text by clicking this link!Have you been caught up in the wave of optimism following Pope Leo XIV's election? While there's genuine cause for celebration, this episode dives beneath the surface hype to examine the profound challenges that remain for the Catholic Church.We begin with light-hearted banter about our disappearing friend Nick who seems to have traded our show for more polished Catholic media. This sets up what unexpectedly becomes one of our most memorable segments ever - the spontaneous discovery of the Hawaiian Pigeon Bible translation. The resulting scripture readings had us (and surely you) in tears of laughter, showcasing the joy that remains at the heart of authentic Catholic community even amid serious times.When we finally compose ourselves, we tackle the substantial issues facing Pope Leo XIV. By examining Marco Rubio's thoughtful response to media attempts to politicize the papacy, we unpack how the new pope will navigate the complex relationship between Catholic teaching and geopolitical realities. The heart of our conversation explores a sobering reality: the divisions within Catholicism may be too profound to heal. Can Pope Leo possibly reconcile traditional Catholics with progressive German bishops who essentially practice a different religion? We analyze insights from Father Isaac and Father Murray about the fundamental problems in the Church that transcend any single papacy, from liturgical issues to doctrinal confusion dating back to Vatican II.What makes this episode particularly valuable is our refusal to settle for simplistic narratives. While acknowledging the relief of having a pope who doesn't seem hostile to traditionalists, we remain clear-eyed about the long journey ahead for authentic Catholic restoration. We conclude with practical reflections on how traditional practices like fasting can transform spiritual life regardless of Vatican politics.Whether you're feeling hopeful, concerned, or simply confused about the Church's direction, this episode offers both the levity of authentic fellowship and the depth of honest analysis. Share your thoughts with us - what do you believe Pope Leo needs to prioritize in these challenging times?Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/Support the showSponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/********************************************************Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1https://www.avoidingbabylon.comLocals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.comRSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rssRumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon

Want to reach out to us? Want to leave a comment or review? Want to give us a suggestion or berate Anthony? Send us a text by clicking this link!The election of Pope Leo XIV—the first American pontiff—has sparked fresh hope and cautious optimism in a Catholic world still recovering from the polarizing Francis years. In this candid conversation, Rob and Anthony explore the fascinating phenomenon of how both traditionalist and progressive Catholics initially believe Leo XIV is "their guy," despite the deep divisions that remain within the Church.We dive into Vatican insider Edward Penton's revelations about the conclave's voting patterns, discovering how Cardinal Prevost emerged as the compromise candidate when votes for clearly conservative or progressive cardinals became hopelessly split. Most intriguingly, contrary to Italian media reports, Cardinal Burke never received the future Pope in his apartment—dispelling rumors of pre-conclave lobbying.The Pope's brother Lou offers unique insights into Leo's character, suggesting that while he may hold some progressive views on certain issues, he remains firmly grounded in Catholic doctrine. This middle-path approach has many Catholics feeling a tremendous sense of relief after years of hostility, with one commentator poignantly noting: "I can't even tell you what that feels like to go in and not feel like your father hates you."Through liturgical gestures like wearing traditional papal regalia and incorporating Latin, Pope Leo appears to be extending olive branches to traditionalists while maintaining continuity with Vatican II. Yet the fundamental question remains: can this approach sustain itself when eventually he must make decisions that will disappoint one side or the other?Whether you're a traditionalist hopeful for restoration or a progressive seeking continued evolution, this episode offers thoughtful perspective on what may be the slowing—but not the end—of the post-Vatican II revolution. Join us as we navigate these fascinating times in Church history and contemplate what Leo's pontificate might mean for Catholics worldwide.Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/Support the showSponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/********************************************************Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1https://www.avoidingbabylon.comLocals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.comRSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rssRumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon

Want to reach out to us? Want to leave a comment or review? Want to give us a suggestion or berate Anthony? Send us a text by clicking this link!The Catholic world has been thrown into a whirlwind of emotions following the unexpected election of Pope Leo XIV. This episode captures the raw, unfiltered reactions of faithful Catholics as they process what this papacy might mean for the Church.When white smoke appeared during the fourth scrutiny—much earlier than anticipated—Catholics everywhere experienced a complex mixture of surprise, concern, and hope. We delve into the fascinating psychological and spiritual journey many traditional Catholics experienced: from initial apprehension about Cardinal Prevost's connections to progressive figures in the Church, to a growing desire to embrace and support the new Holy Father.The conversation explores profound questions about Catholic identity in turbulent times. What does proper loyalty to the Pope look like when concerns about doctrine exist? How do we balance filial devotion with fidelity to established Church teaching? When does legitimate concern become detraction, and when does silence become complicity?At the heart of the discussion is a touchingly honest admission: "I want to love the Holy Father, dude. I think we all just miss being Catholic and loving the Pope." This sentiment captures the yearning many Catholics feel after years of tension and division within the Church.The episode also examines potential "litmus tests" for Pope Leo XIV's pontificate, particularly regarding controversial aspects of his predecessor's teaching like Amoris Laetitia. While some focus on doctrinal clarity as paramount, others highlight the cultural importance of liturgical traditions like the Latin Mass in forming future generations of faithful Catholics.Throughout the conversation runs a thread of cautious hope—not naive optimism, but a genuine desire to see healing and restoration in the Church under this new shepherd. Whether you're feeling confusion, concern, or excitement about this new chapter in Catholic history, this discussion offers thoughtful perspectives to help navigate these uncharted waters.Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/Support the showSponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/********************************************************Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1https://www.avoidingbabylon.comLocals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.comRSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rssRumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon

Want to reach out to us? Want to leave a comment or review? Want to give us a suggestion or berate Anthony? Send us a text by clicking this link!LANGUAGE WARNINGThe Catholic world has witnessed a seismic shift with the election of Pope Leo XIV, the first American pontiff in history. In this riveting conversation, Tim Gordon joins Anthony and Rob to dissect what this unexpected papal selection truly means for the faithful.From the moment white smoke billowed over the Sistine Chapel after just four ballots, something extraordinary was happening. Despite media speculation focusing on candidates like Cardinals Sarah, Parolin, and Tagle, it was the relatively unknown Cardinal Robert Prevost who emerged as Pope. But was this truly a surprise? Tim Gordon's prescient analysis suggests otherwise.We explore the fascinating connections between Pope Leo XIV and key figures from the Francis pontificate, including Cardinals Cupich and Maradiaga. The discussion reveals how the Sankt Gallen group's influence persists through a new generation, orchestrating what appears to be a carefully planned continuation of Francis's vision—albeit with a more traditional presentation.The symbolism is striking: a Pope who steps onto the loggia in full traditional papal regalia while simultaneously emphasizing synodality and progressive themes in his first address. This duality creates a compelling narrative of a pontificate that may offer liturgical concessions to traditionalists while firmly maintaining the doctrinal direction established under Francis. What makes this transition particularly fascinating is the new Pope's American background. As Tim points out, Pope Leo XIV understands the American Catholic media landscape in ways Francis never could, potentially positioning him to navigate and neutralize resistance more effectively than his predecessor.For faithful Catholics wrestling with these developments, this conversation offers invaluable perspective on maintaining faith during ecclesiastical turbulence. Rather than succumbing to despair or false hope, the hosts advocate for steadfast commitment to Catholic practice while remaining clear-eyed about the challenges ahead.Whatever your position on recent Church developments, this thoughtful analysis provides essential context for understanding what may be one of the most consequential papal transitions of our lifetime. Subscribe now to join the conversation as we navigate this new chapter in Catholic history together.Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/Support the showSponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/********************************************************Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1https://www.avoidingbabylon.comLocals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.comRSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rssRumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon

Want to reach out to us? Want to leave a comment or review? Want to give us a suggestion or berate Anthony? Send us a text by clicking this link!As Cardinals gather for what may be the most consequential papal election in centuries, the Catholic Church stands at a defining crossroads. The conclave beginning May 7th occurs amid unprecedented circumstances – 80% of voting Cardinals were appointed by Pope Francis, yet most have never met each other due to Francis's unusual decision never to convene a full consistory.Behind the scenes, surprising dynamics are emerging. Reports suggest even Cardinals previously loyal to Francis are experiencing "fatigue" with his progressive agenda. Cardinal Maradiaga allegedly left Rome in anger, accusing fellow Cardinals of being "Francis turncoats" unwilling to continue his revolutionary path. Meanwhile, Cardinal Stella, once among Francis's closest advisors, publicly criticized aspects of his papacy immediately after his death.The possibility of deadlock looms large. With the requirement for a two-thirds majority (89 votes) and deep ideological divides, finding consensus could prove extraordinarily difficult. Traditionalists see this potential delay as positive – the longer the conclave, the more likely Cardinals will resist progressive candidates and seek compromise.What makes this moment truly pivotal is the recognition that the Church already exists in a state of material schism. The election outcome could either formalize this division or begin healing it. If a traditional Pope emerges, progressives might revolt; if another revolutionary is chosen, traditionalists may reach their breaking point. Several Cardinals have emerged as serious contenders, including the surprising possibility of Patriarch Pizzaballa of Jerusalem, whose election on May 13th (Feast of Our Lady of Fatima) would carry profound symbolic weight.Whatever the outcome, faithful Catholics face a continuing struggle – either fighting alongside a traditional Pope against worldly opposition or persevering under hostile leadership. As we await white smoke above St. Peter's, join us in praying that the Holy Spirit guides these men to choose a shepherd who will lead the Church back to its foundations rather than further into revolution.Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/Support the showSponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/********************************************************Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1https://www.avoidingbabylon.comLocals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.comRSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rssRumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon

Want to reach out to us? Want to leave a comment or review? Want to give us a suggestion or berate Anthony? Send us a text by clicking this link!When 77-year-old priest Father Charles Murr gets behind the microphone, he doesn't just share memories – he unveils a chilling narrative about the systematic dismantling of Catholic tradition that he's witnessed since his ordination in 1977. What makes this conversation extraordinary isn't just the historical perspective, but Father Murray's personal proximity to pivotal Vatican events that changed the Church forever.The picture Father Murr paints is startling. From the glory days of America's Catholic education system where tuition cost just $15 per year and devoted nuns taught packed classrooms, to the bewildering exodus of 500,000 religious sisters and 10,000 Jesuit priests after Vatican II. His most explosive revelations concern alleged Freemason infiltration at the highest levels of Church governance – including the architect of the Novus Ordo Mass and the cardinal responsible for appointing bishops worldwide.Father Murr's firsthand account of Pope John Paul I's mysterious death after just 33 days in office reads like a spiritual thriller. As someone who drove Cardinal Gagnon to audiences with both John Paul I and John Paul II, his perspective on what happened behind closed Vatican doors offers rare insight into one of the Church's most perplexing moments. The connection between John Paul I's confrontation with corrupt officials and his sudden death raises questions that still linger today.Despite witnessing decades of institutional deterioration and what he calls "the greatest crisis in 2,000 years of Church history," Father Murr maintains a surprising optimism about the upcoming conclave. His assessment of the cardinal electors, particularly those from Africa and Asia, suggests that divine intervention could still turn the tide. For anyone seeking to understand why traditional Catholics view the coming papal election as a pivotal moment for civilization itself, this conversation provides essential context and unexpected hope.Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/********************************************************Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1https://www.avoidingbabylon.comLocals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.comRSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rssRumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon🎙️ New to streaming or looking to level up? Check out StreamYard and get $10 discount! 😍 https://streamyard.com/pal/d/6029316625530880Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/Support the showSponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/********************************************************Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1https://www.avoidingbabylon.comLocals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.comRSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rssRumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon

Want to reach out to us? Want to leave a comment or review? Want to give us a suggestion or berate Anthony? Send us a text by clicking this link!The Catholic Church stands at a crossroads unlike any we've seen in generations. In this raw, unfiltered conversation, we dive deep into what's really happening behind the scenes of the upcoming papal conclave—and why it matters to every Catholic.With cardinals gathering in Rome, we're witnessing what appears to be two distinct visions of Catholicism struggling for control under one roof. We break down the likely papal candidates and why there seems to be no true conservative option among them. While most cardinals signal a willingness to loosen restrictions on the Traditional Latin Mass regardless of who's elected, the deeper divisions within the Church may prove irreconcilable.We explore the apocalyptic dimensions of our current moment, examining whether the Church is truly experiencing its own passion and death before resurrection—as described in paragraph 675 of the Catechism—or if we're simply in another difficult period that will eventually pass. The COVID shutdowns of churches, worldwide sacramental disruptions, and increasing doctrinal confusion all point to something unprecedented unfolding before our eyes.Throughout our conversation, we maintain a commitment to speaking candidly about these challenges while remaining faithful to Catholic teaching. Unlike many Catholic commentators who seem reluctant to honestly assess Pope Francis' legacy, we're determined to examine the fullness of our situation without sugar-coating difficult truths. This independence allows us to bring you perspectives you won't hear in other Catholic media.Whether you're a traditional Catholic concerned about the direction of the Church, someone returning to the faith, or simply curious about what's happening in Rome, this episode provides crucial context for understanding this pivotal moment in Catholic history. Join us as we navigate these turbulent waters together, holding fast to the timeless truths that have sustained the Church through every crisis.Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/Support the showSponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/********************************************************Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1https://www.avoidingbabylon.comLocals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.comRSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rssRumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon

Want to reach out to us? Want to leave a comment or review? Want to give us a suggestion or berate Anthony? Send us a text by clicking this link!As the Catholic Church stands at a crucial crossroads following Pope Francis's death, an unprecedented papal conclave takes shape. Unlike previous elections, today's College of Cardinals features a dramatically altered demographic landscape—European representation has dropped from 58% to 42%, with significant increases from Africa, South America, and Asia. Perhaps most striking is the unfamiliarity many cardinal electors have with one another, creating an atmosphere of uncertainty and possibility.The stakes couldn't be higher as competing visions for Catholicism's future clash behind closed doors. Will the cardinals select a continuity candidate who maintains Francis's pastoral approach, or will they pivot toward a more traditional leader who might restore practices like the Latin Mass? Prominent contenders like Hungary's Cardinal Erdő, Africa's Cardinal Sarah, and Jerusalem's Cardinal Pizzaballa each represent distinct paths forward, with theological implications that will resonate throughout the global Church.Media influence looms large over these proceedings, with publications like The New York Times framing narratives that some observers view as attempts to shape the outcome. Meanwhile, recent converts to Catholicism watch with particular interest, having never experienced a pontiff who fully embraced traditional Catholic sensibilities. The generational divide among the faithful adds another layer of complexity—younger Catholics often gravitate toward ancient rituals and clear doctrinal positions, while Church leadership frequently focuses on issues that resonate with older generations.Despite Francis's efforts to decentralize Church leadership, many recognize that "Catholicism and Europe are inseparable," suggesting a European pope might best address the continent's faith crisis. As cardinals deliberate, they must balance competing priorities: healing divisions, addressing secular challenges, and determining whether the Church needs stability or transformation after a tumultuous decade.Whatever smoke rises above the Sistine Chapel—whether signaling radical change or careful continuity—this historic moment will shape Catholicism's trajectory for decades to come. Join us as we explore the personalities, politics, and profound theological questions surrounding this pivotal papal election.Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/Support the showSponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/********************************************************Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1https://www.avoidingbabylon.comLocals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.comRSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rssRumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon

Want to reach out to us? Want to leave a comment or review? Want to give us a suggestion or berate Anthony? Send us a text by clicking this link!What happens when three distinct papal visions collide with the legacy of Vatican II? This riveting conversation explores how John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Francis each navigated the complex aftermath of the Council while shaped by their unique historical contexts.Most Catholics don't realize that both John Paul II and Benedict XVI were formed during the chaos of World War II and Soviet occupation—a trauma that influenced their cautious approach to implementing Vatican II. When John Paul II needed Communist permission just to attend the Council as a young bishop, it revealed the high stakes of Church politics in that era. These experiences created leaders who operated very differently than Francis, who represents a post-conciliar generation with its own vision.The discussion delves into sensitive territory that mainstream Catholic media often avoids: how personnel choices determined policy outcomes, how the sexual abuse crisis undermined trust in Church leadership, and why social media has transformed Catholic discourse. We explore why traditional liturgy appeals to younger Catholics despite restrictions, and how the upcoming conclave might determine whether the Church continues Francis's trajectory or returns to earlier interpretations.Most powerfully, the conversation acknowledges the painful reality that many faithful Catholics experienced crises of faith during Francis's papacy due to perceived doctrinal ambiguity—a perspective rarely voiced in polite Catholic circles. By understanding these complex dynamics, we gain insight into the divided state of contemporary Catholicism and what might lie ahead after Francis.Whether you're a traditional Catholic, a Vatican II enthusiast, or simply curious about Church politics, this conversation offers perspectives you won't hear in typical Catholic media. Join us for an honest, thoughtful exploration of how the past shapes our present and future Church.Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/Support the showSponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/********************************************************Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1https://www.avoidingbabylon.comLocals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.comRSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rssRumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon

Want to reach out to us? Want to leave a comment or review? Want to give us a suggestion or berate Anthony? Send us a text by clicking this link!What happens when political movements capture the hearts of the faithful? Katherine Bennett of Catholic Unscripted joins Anthony to explore how easily Catholics can be swept along by political currents that promise relief from progressive agendas, yet ultimately distract us from our true center—Christ and His Church.The conversation delves into our modern tendency to seek messiahs in unlikely places. "I was being drawn too much by the political," Catherine admits, "and there was a danger that I was taking my eyes off Christ and His Church." This vulnerability affects many believers who, after feeling "battered by the progressive agenda," embrace political figures or movements without sufficient discernment. They explore how even opposition to transgender ideology can become a "false flag" that makes us accept other problematic developments simply because they come from "our side."Most striking is their examination of sacred architecture as a reflection of cultural priorities. Anthony shares his revelation visiting European cathedrals: "When you go into a grand cathedral, you are a peasant being welcomed into the kingdom... You're in the heavenly kingdom." This contrasts sharply with American cities dominated by skyscrapers—"monuments to money"—revealing where our contemporary worship truly lies. The traditional liturgy, they argue, properly orients us by "placing us rightly, in all humility, before our Lord" instead of approaching as equals.During this time of papal transition, both speakers express hope for healing among Catholics of goodwill despite differences. Their conversation offers a refreshing call to personal sanctity over political activism: "God will raise up the saints needed for this time, and that saint could be you or me." The path forward isn't found in carrying banners or saving the world through activism, but in faithful living of our unique vocations.What's your primary source of orientation in these confusing times? Join the conversation and rediscover what it means to place Christ at the center of everything.Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/Support the showSponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/********************************************************Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1https://www.avoidingbabylon.comLocals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.comRSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rssRumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon