
The Education Gadfly Show
For more than 15 years, the Fordham Institute has been hosting a weekly podcast, The Education Gadfly Show. Each week, you’ll get lively, entertaining discussions of recent education news, usually featuring Fordham’s Mike Petrilli and David Griffith. Then the wise Amber Northern will recap a recent research study. For questions or comments on the podcast, contact its producer, Stephanie Distler, at sdistler@fordhaminstitute.org.
Latest episodes

May 29, 2024 • 28min
#922: Redesigning high school diplomas, with Dr. Katie Jenner
Dr. Katie Jenner, Indiana secretary of education, discusses Indiana's proposed alternative high school diplomas for flexible paths to employment or college. They address personalized education, career prep, and balancing college readiness with career focus. The podcast also explores evolving math requirements, predictive indicators for college enrollment, and challenges faced by high school freshmen in navigating academic success.

May 22, 2024 • 27min
#921: Rethinking reading comprehension instruction, with Daniel Buck
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Daniel Buck, Fordham’s policy and editorial associate, joins Mike and David to discuss whether and how elementary schools should teach reading comprehension. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a new study investigating the short- and long-term impacts of school closures in the 1990s.Recommended content: Daniel Buck, “Think again: Should elementary schools teach reading comprehension?” Fordham Institute (May 2024). "At long last, E.D. Hirsch, Jr. gets his due: New research shows big benefits from Core Knowledge” —Robert Pondiscio, Fordham Institute“We need to prepare now for the school closures that are coming” —Tim Daly, Fordham InstituteJeonghyeok Kim, “The long shadow of school closures: Impacts on students’ educational and labor market outcomes,” Annenberg Institute at Brown University (May 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

May 15, 2024 • 26min
#920: Integration and charter schools, with Brian Kisida
In a special National Charter Schools Week Education Gadfly Show podcast, Brian Kisida, an assistant professor at the University of Missouri, joins Mike and David to discuss whether charters have impeded racial integration in American schools. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a new study investigating if intensive English learner programs benefit students.Recommended content: “70 years after Brown v. Board of Education, new research shows rise in school segregation” —Carrie Spector, Stanford EducationTomas Monarrez, Brian Kisida, and Matthew M. Chingos. “The effect of charter schools on school segregation,” EdWorkingPaper No. 20-308, Annenberg Institute at Brown University (2020).Camila Morales and Monica Mogollon, “The effects of a newcomer program on the academic achievement of English Learners,” Journal of Policy Analysis and Management (May 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

May 8, 2024 • 30min
#919: Why we should teach the history of human progress, with Marian Tupy
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Marian Tupy, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and the founder and editor of HumanProgress.org, joins Mike and David to discuss the incredible progress that humanity has made over millennia, and what schools might do to better teach kids that our past, present, and future is not all doom and gloom. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a new study investigating if education savings accounts increase tuition costs at private schools.Recommended content: Ten global trends every smart person should know: And many others you will find interesting —Marian Tupy and Ronald Bailey“Progress, rediscovered” —Ronald Bailey, Reason Magazine“School choice need not mean an expensive windfall for the rich” —Michael Petrilli, Fordham Institute“Name Fordham’s boy band!” —Eduwonkette, Education WeekJason Fontana and Jennifer L. Jennings, “The effect of taxpayer-funded education savings accounts on private school tuition: Evidence from Iowa,” Annenberg Institute at Brown University (April 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

May 1, 2024 • 29min
#918: The broken pipeline of advanced education, with Adam Tyner
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Adam Tyner, Fordham’s national research director, joins Mike and David to discuss his latest study on advanced education policies across the country. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines new research on how the decentralization of teacher accountability under the federal Every Student Succeeds Act affected student achievement.Recommended content: The broken pipeline: Advanced education policies at the local level —Adam Tyner, Fordham InstituteBuilding a Wider, More Diverse Pipeline of Advanced Learners —The National Working Group on Advanced Education, Fordham Institute“Teacher evaluation reform was very successful—on paper” —Tim Daly, Fordham Institute“Jayden Daniels to Commanders with No. 2 pick in NFL draft” —ESPNEric A. Hanushek, Patricia Saenz-Armstrong, and Alejandra Salazar, Balancing federalism: The impact of decentralizing school accountability, National Bureau of Economic Research (April 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

Apr 24, 2024 • 27min
#917: The end of Chevron Deference, with Joshua Dunn
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Joshua Dunn, Executive Director of the Institute of American Civics at the University of Tennessee, joins Mike and David to discuss how public schools will be affected by the end of the Chevron deference—the judicial doctrine in which courts defer to federal agencies’ reasonable interpretations of ambiguous statutes. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a new paper criticizing the famous STAR class size study.Recommended content: “Fishing for rules” —Joshua Dunn, Education Next“The case for the supreme court to overturn Chevron Deference” —Wall Street Journal“The Chevron deference is desperately needed” —David Martin, Washington PostKarun Adusumilli, Francesco Agostinelli, and Emilio Borghesan, “Heterogeneity and endogenous compliance: Implications for scaling class size interventions,” National Bureau of Economic Research (April 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

Apr 17, 2024 • 27min
#916: The case for curriculum reform, with Robert Pondiscio
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Robert Pondiscio, a senior fellow at Fordham and the American Enterprise Institute, joins Mike and David to discuss the state of curricular reform. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines new data from the Institute of Education Sciences’ Condition of Education Report.Recommended content: “40 years after ‘A nation at risk,’ could curriculum reform finally move the needle on academic improvement?” —Robert Pondiscio, The 74“The ‘case for curriculum’ is about reducing teachers’ workload” —Robert Pondiscio, Fordham InstituteVéronique Irwin et. al., “Report on the Condition of Education 2023,” National Center for Education Statistics (August 2023).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

Apr 10, 2024 • 30min
#915: Eliminating school boundaries, with Derrell Bradford
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Derrell Bradford, the president of 50CAN, joins Mike and David to discuss a new coalition called No More Lines that seeks to end residency requirements for public schools. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber reports on a new study examining whether ESSER funding influenced spending on school personnel.Recommended content: “Coalition Challenges Residency Requirements for Public Schools” —Jo Napolitano, The 74“America’s private public schools” —Michael Petrilli and Janie Scull, Fordham InstituteDan Goldhaber, Grace Falken, and Roddy Theobald, “ESSER funding and school system jobs: Evidence from job posting data,” CALDER (April 2024). Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

Apr 3, 2024 • 28min
#914: A comprehensive vision for conservative education reform, with Rick Hess
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Rick Hess, the director of education policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, joins Mike and David to discuss his new book, Getting Education Right. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber reports on a new study examining how civics educators taught about and framed the 2020 election.Recommended content: "Getting education right: A conservative vision for improving early childhood, K–12, and college” —Frederick Hess and Michael McShane“Four states are leading the charge for conservative education reform” —Frederick Hess and Michael McShane, Fordham InstitutePaul Fitchett, Brett Levy, & Jeremy Stoddard, “How and Why Teachers Taught About the 2020 U.S. Election: An Analysis of Survey Responses From Twelve States,” American Educational Research Association (March 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

Mar 27, 2024 • 29min
#913: Advancing cross-partisan education policies, with Lorén Cox and Karen Nussle
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Lorén Cox, the policy director for the Education and Society program at the Aspen Institute, and Karen Nussle, the founder and CEO of Ripple Communications, join Mike and David to discuss how cross-partisanship—both sides agreeing on the same conclusion for disparate reasons—benefits education. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber reports on a new study examining how college achievement and retention is affected by “corequisite” remedial classes—meaning those taken at the same time as, not before, the course requiring the remediation.Recommended content: “Crossing the partisan divide in education policy” — Lorén Cox and Karen Nussle, Aspen Institute“A bridge back to bipartisan education reform” —Michael Petrilli, Fordham InstituteFlorence Xiaotao Ran and Hojung Lee, “Does corequisite remediation work for everyone? An exploration of heterogeneous effects and mechanisms,” Annenberg Institute at Brown University (March 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.