
The Education Gadfly Show
For more than 15 years, the Fordham Institute has been hosting a weekly podcast, The Education Gadfly Show. Each week, you’ll get lively, entertaining discussions of recent education news, usually featuring Fordham’s Mike Petrilli and David Griffith. Then the wise Amber Northern will recap a recent research study. For questions or comments on the podcast, contact its producer, Stephanie Distler, at sdistler@fordhaminstitute.org.
Latest episodes

Jul 31, 2024 • 22min
#931: No, school closures aren’t racist, with Vlad Kogan
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Vlad Kogan, a professor at Ohio State University, joins Mike and David to discuss what role race, achievement, and enrollment play in a district’s decision to close a school. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a new report that investigates the staffing difficulties and potential academic effects of class size reduction policies in New York City.Recommended content: “Flawed work to close city schools will hurt Columbus for years to come. It must be fixed.” —Vlad Kogan, The Columbus Dispatch“Schools Will Have to Start Closing Again” —Michael Petrilli, Wall Street Journal“Enrollment down. Achievement lackluster. Should this school close?” —Francis Pearman, Education WeekMatthew Chingos, Ariella Meltzer, and Jay Carter, “Will implementing class size caps exacerbate hiring challenges in New York City’s highest-poverty schools?,” Urban Institute (July 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at sdistler@fordhaminstitute.org.

Jul 24, 2024 • 26min
#930: What Vance and Harris mean for federal education policy, with Dale Chu
Dale Chu, a senior visiting fellow at the Fordham Institute, dives into the shifting dynamics of federal education policy as Biden steps aside and J.D. Vance emerges. He explores how Harris may influence future reforms and the chaotic state of education policy today. The conversation also differentiates between conservative educational reform efforts and cultural battlegrounds. Plus, a fascinating study is highlighted, showing urban charter schools outperforming their suburban counterparts, prompting a deeper discussion on factors impacting educational success.

Jul 17, 2024 • 31min
#929: Equity and school closures, with Francis Pearman
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Francis Pearman, an assistant professor of education at Stanford University, joins Mike and David to debate the impact that budgets, enrollment, and race play in closing schools. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a new study investigating the efficacy of learning-loss-recovery interventions across eight districts.Recommended content: "Enrollment down. Achievement lackluster. Should this school close?” —Francis Pearman, Education Week“Schools will have to start closing again” —Michael Petrilli, Wall Street Journal“Doing educational equity right: School closures” —Michael Petrilli, Fordham InstituteMaria V. Carbonari et al., “Impacts of Academic Recovery Interventions on Student Achievement in 2022-23,” CALDER Working Paper (July 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

Jul 10, 2024 • 28min
#928: Why the pandemic toddlers are struggling in school, with Kristen Huff
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Kristen Huff, the vice president of assessment and research at Curriculum Associates, joins Mike and David to discuss the academic performance our youngest students in the wake of the pandemic. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a new study investigating the demographic effects of test-optional policies at selective universities.Recommended content: “The Youngest Pandemic Children Are Now in School, and Struggling” —New York TimesEthan Young and Kelsey Young, “Student growth in the post-COVID era,” Curriculum Associates (June 2024). “The Democratic replacement candidates on education” —Daniel Buck, Fordham InstituteAdam Tyner, “Think Again: Do College Admissions Exams Drive Higher Education Inequities?” Fordham Institute (February 2023).Kelly Rosinger, Dominique J. Baker, Joseph Sturm, Wan Yu, Julie J. Park, OiYan Poon, Brian Heseung Kim, and Stephanie Breen, “Exploring the relationship between test-optional admissions and selectivity and enrollment outcomes during the pandemic,” Annenberg Institute at Brown University (June 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

Jul 3, 2024 • 30min
#927: How to shrink schools and school districts as enrollment declines, with Marguerite Roza
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Marguerite Roza, the director of the Edunomics Lab and a research professor at Georgetown University, joins Mike and David to discuss how schools and school systems can downsize in response to declining enrollment. Then, on the Research Minute, Adam examines a new study investigating the academic impacts of ESSER funding, the largest one-time federal investment in public schools in history.Recommended content: “The math of school closures: How district leaders should navigate the perfect storm of budget shortfalls and declining student enrollment” —Marguerite Roza & Aashish Dhammani, The 74“Schools will have to start closing again” —Michael Petrilli, Wall Street Journal“Doing educational equity right: School closures” —Michael Petrilli, Fordham InstituteDan Goldhaber and Grace Falken, “ESSER and student achievement: Assessing the impacts of the largest one-time federal investment in K12 schools,” CALDER (June 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

Jun 26, 2024 • 29min
#926: What “Young Sheldon” teaches about parenting, with Alina Adams
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Alina Adams, a New York Times best-selling author, joins Mike and David to discuss the parenting lessons she learned from watching “Young Sheldon.” Then, on the Research Minute, Adam examines a new study investigating the rigor (or lack thereof) of online credit recovery courses.Recommended content: “I watched the parenting on ‘Young Sheldon’… and did the exact opposite” —Alina Adams, Education Next“Fun fact: ‘Young Sheldon’ provides insight into parenting bright children” —Jonathan Plucker, Education Next“Time to press ‘pause’ on credit recovery” —Adam Tyner, Fordham InstituteJennifer Darling-Aduana, Carolyn J. Heinrich, Jeremy Noonan, Jialing Wu, and Kathryn Enriquez, “Failing to learn from failure: The facade of online credit recovery assessments,” Education Finance and Policy (March 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

Jun 19, 2024 • 25min
#925: We need more curriculum oversight, with Robert Pondiscio
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Robert Pondiscio, a senior fellow at Fordham and the American Enterprise Institute, joins Mike and David to discuss the lack of curriculum oversight in American schools. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a new study of whether aspiring teachers’ professional references predict their later performance.Recommended content: “How public schools became ideological boot camps” —Robert Pondiscio, The Free Press“Taking curriculum implementation seriously” —Robert Pondiscio, Fordham InstituteDan Goldhaber, Cyrus Grout, and Malcolm Wolff, “How well do professional reference ratings predict teacher performance?” Education Finance and Policy (March 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

Jun 12, 2024 • 25min
#924: How presidents polarize education debates, with David Houston
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, David Houston, an assistant professor at George Mason University, joins Mike and David to discuss how presidents polarize voters when they weigh in on education debates. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a new study investigating whether performance incentives improve teacher skills and so the academic growth of their students.Recommended content: “Polling data: Presidents split the public on schools” —Kevin Mahnken, The 74“Let’s talk about bad teachers” —Michael Petrilli, Fordham InstituteDavid Houston and Alyssa Barone, “How the engagement of high-profile partisan officials affects education politics, public opinion, and polarization,” Annenberg Institute at Brown University (March 2024).Eric Taylor, “Employee evaluation and skill investments: Evidence from public school teachers,” Annenberg Institute at Brown University (May 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

Jun 5, 2024 • 29min
#923: Debating school funding inequities, with Alex Spurrier
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Alex Spurrier, an associate partner at Bellwether, joins Mike and David to discuss whether schools in low-income neighborhoods receive less funding than their affluent counterparts. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a new study investigating state finance reforms that secure lasting budget increases for districts.Recommended content: Alex Spurrier, Bonnie O’Keefe, and Biko McMillan, “Leveling the landscape: An analysis of K–12 funding inequities within metro areas,” Bellwether (May 2024). "Low- and high-income schools now receive equal funding” —Adam Tyner, Fordham Institute“Doing educational equity right: School finance” —Michael Petrilli, Fordham InstituteShelby M. McNeill and Christopher A. Candelaria, “Paying for school finance reforms: How states raise revenues to fund increases in elementary-secondary education expenditures,” Annenberg Institute at Brown University (May 2024).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.

May 29, 2024 • 28min
#922: Redesigning high school diplomas, with Dr. Katie Jenner
Dr. Katie Jenner, Indiana secretary of education, discusses Indiana's proposed alternative high school diplomas for flexible paths to employment or college. They address personalized education, career prep, and balancing college readiness with career focus. The podcast also explores evolving math requirements, predictive indicators for college enrollment, and challenges faced by high school freshmen in navigating academic success.