PhotoBizX The Ultimate Wedding and Portrait Photography Business Podcast

Premium Members, click here to access this interview in the premium area Steve Tepp of www.rightsclick.com is a seasoned copyright expert and co-founder of RightsClick® — a company on the front lines, protecting the rights of photographers and other creators where they say you can turn copyright infringement Into income. He has an extensive background in IP law and started his career as an attorney for the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, then worked at the U.S. Copyright Office, where he handled major international cases, including one against China. He also led intellectual property efforts at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce before starting his own consultancy, Sentinel Worldwide. In addition to working in the field, he teaches copyright law at George Washington University and continues to be a key voice in the fight for creative rights. In this interview, Steve shares everything a photographer needs to know about copyright and protecting your images. Here's some more of what we covered in the interview: Copyright Registration: Emphasises the need for US photographers to register their work for legal protection, as foreign authors are exempt. Legal Protection for Photographers: Highlights the importance of copyright registration to access statutory damages and attorneys' fees. Copyright Applicability: Copyright applies to anyone creating tangible works, including photographers, designers, and sculptors. Retaining Copyright Ownership: Advises photographers to use written agreements to retain copyright and clarify terms with clients. Licensing vs Selling Copyright: Differentiates between licensing for non-exclusive use while retaining ownership, and stresses the use of metadata to track images. Fair Use Challenges in the US: Describes the unpredictability of fair use in US courts and reinforces the value of copyright registration for stronger legal standing. US Copyright Registration Process: Outlines the steps involved in registering images with the US Copyright Office to strengthen ownership claims. Infringement and Cease and Desist Letters: Encourages using tools like RightsClick to assess infringements and issue cease and desist letters, bolstered by copyright registration. International Copyright Differences: Notes variations in international copyright laws, with Australia offering extra damages and using public pressure to resolve disputes. AI-Generated Image Copyright Issues: Discusses the evolving challenges of copyrighting AI-generated images, with human involvement playing a key role in claims. What’s on Offer for Premium Members If you’re on the fence about becoming a premium member, join with the $1 trial today and get access to the FULL interviews each week, a fantastic back catalogue of interviews, and have ALL future interviews delivered automatically to your phone or tablet. Plus, special member-only interviews. Everyone who's trying to make a business as a photographer should be paying attention to their copyright rights. Everyone. All the way down to even just the man or woman on the street, who happens to pull out their phone and snap a photo of a newsworthy event, if they think that there's value in that photograph, then they have copyright rights at the moment they've snapped that image. – Steve Tepp You'll also receive access to the members-only Secret Facebook Group, where you can connect with other Premium Members and interview guests to help, support and motivate you to take ideas you hear in each episode and put them into action. The group also has FB live video tutorials, role-play, and special live interviews. You will not find more friendly, motivated, caring and sharing photographers online. Seriously, that's not all. In addition to everything above, you'll get access to instructions on forming or joining a MasterMind Group with other premium members. These groups are super motivating, make you accountable, and build friendships with other pro photographers with motives similar to yours – to build a more successful photography business. What is your big takeaway? Following this interview, I’d love to know if you're taking anything from what Steve shared. Is there something you heard that excited or motivated you to the point where you thought, yeah, I'm going to do that! If so, leave your thoughts in the comments below; let me know your takeaways and what you plan to implement in your business based on what you heard in today's episode. In order to be eligible for statutory damages, you must have registered with the copyright office before the infringement began. Not before you discovered it, before it began. – Steve Tepp If you have any questions I missed, a specific question you’d like to ask Steve, or a way to thank you for coming on the show, feel free to add them in the comments area below. Register now for this business and life-changing training! The “40 Over 40” Campaign Masterclass helps portrait photographers attract high-value clients by focusing on women over 40, a powerful and often underserved demographic. Led by Laurie Brown, who has successfully run these campaigns multiple times, the course provides step-by-step guidance on creating a luxury experience that boosts client satisfaction, generates referrals, and significantly increases profits. You will learn marketing and pricing strategies and how to create lasting relationships with clients. This training is perfect for photographers seeking to elevate their business with a proven, profitable campaign. All the details are here –>> https://learn.photobizx.com/40over40/ Here's what you'll learn… How to attract high-value clients with a “40 Over 40” portrait campaign. Marketing strategies targeting women over 40. Techniques for creating compelling portraits. Generating referrals and long-term client relationships. Using social media ads and email marketing effectively. Storytelling techniques to connect with clients. Designing a luxury portrait experience. Pricing strategies for high-end clientele. When: The live training is on September 26th 2024 @ 7:00am AEDT. AND October 2024 @ 7:00am AEDT You will have access to the recording, stand-alone course and any downloadables after the live training has been delivered by Laurie. Click here for your local time. Where: Zoom (I'll provide a link once you register) Why: To fill your calendar with fantastic clients who love what you do and leave raving about you to everyone they know. Cost is $197 and doubles after the live training. Early bird bonus: $100 off any other existing PBX Course (to be used in 2024). All the details are here: https://learn.photobizx.com/40over40/ If you want a full calendar of high-value portrait clients, this could be your perfect marketing campaign.  iTunes Reviews and Shout-outs I check for any new iTunes or Google reviews each week, and it's always a buzz to receive these… for several reasons. Firstly, it's confirmation that I'm on the right track with the interviews and that they are helping you improve your photography business. That's awesome! Secondly, iTunes and Google are the most significant podcast search engines, and your reviews and ratings help other photographers find PhotoBizX. More listeners mean more interviews and, ultimately, a better show. Registration is per work. So, once you register a particular image, that image is registered forever or for the rest of the life of the copyright. But if you take more images, you've got to register those images. – Steve Tepp If you have left a review in the past, thank you! If you haven't and you'd like to, head to https://photobizx.com/itunes or https://photobizx.com/google. You can leave some honest feedback and a rating, which will help both me and the show. I'll be sure to thank you on the show and add a link to your website or blog if you let me know the URL of your website and your name. Alternatively, if you've left a review for PhotoBizX and are looking for more backlinks to help your SEO, leave a review for the new Photography Xperiment Podcast. Email me your keywords or phrases and where you'd like me to link them. Everyone who's listening, who is a US based author, if you have not registered your work with the US Copyright Office, you cannot go to federal court to enforce your rights. If you file a lawsuit, it will be dismissed out of hand for failure to register. That is an absolute prerequisite for US authors in the US. – Steve Tepp Another great way to get a backlink to your site is to send a video testimonial. It doesn't need to be fancy, and your phone will be perfect. Click record and tell me how PhotoBizX has impacted you and your photography business.​ Here are the latest reviews… ★★★★★ The best $20 you'll ever spend Via Google by Morris County, New Jersey family and pet photographer Stephanie Blum, in the USA on September 12th, 2024. I listen to Andrew's podcast every Monday. It's become part of my Monday morning ritual.  He is one of the absolute best interviewers.  I've listened to many other photography podcasts but his provides the most value and education around. He asks great questions and I learn something every episode. I highly recommend paying for the premium membership. It's the best $20 you'll ever spend. ★★★★★ This photography podcast makes you a better runner!  Via Google by Leigh Woolford, who specialises in Melbourne kindergarten photography, in Australia on September 13th, 2024. This might be a strange measurement of how much I value these podcasts… Went for a 4k run this morning, put the headphones in and ended up running 6 because I had to finish listening! Not only can I confirm Andrew has helped me become a 1.5x better runner, these podcasts are proving invaluable in the pursuit of creating a better Photography business! ★★★★★ Directly contributed to the growth and success of my photography business. Via Google by Ponte Vedra Beach & Jacksonville headshot photographer Chris Cottrell, in Florida, USA, on September 13th, 2024. Photobizx has been an invaluable resource for me as a photographer. Andrew’s weekly episodes offer a wealth of actionable advice, from marketing strategies to how-to courses. His ability to break down complex topics into digestible pieces makes it easy for both new and experienced photographers to benefit. Over the years, I’ve gained countless insights from Photobizx that have directly contributed to the growth and success of my photography business. The interviews with industry professionals provide unique perspectives and real-world examples. I highly recommend Photobizx to anyone looking to take their photography business to the next level. Thank you, Andrew, for your dedication to helping photographers thrive! ★★★★★ Directly contributed to the growth and success of my photography business. Via Google by Newcastle, Lake Macquarie, and Hunter dog photographer Kelly Munce in Australia on September 14th, 2024. I took the book projects course with Photo Biz Xposed, and it was packed with valuable information from both Katie and Andrew. Andrew has been incredibly helpful even after the course, always available to answer any questions I’ve had. Photo Biz Xposed is a fantastic resource. Links to people, places and things mentioned in this episode: RightsClick Website RightsClick on Facebook RightsClick on Instagram Thank you! Thank you again for tuning in, and a big thanks to Steve for sharing his valuable insights on copyright and photography. I hope that after listening, you feel more empowered and informed about protecting your work from unauthorised use and understand how to seek compensation or take action if your photography is used without permission. The copyright law in most countries has been written in a way to give the copyright owner as strong a hand as possible, especially against willful infringement. – Steve Tepp That’s it for me this week; I hope everything is going well for you in life and business! Thanks, and speak soon Andrew The post 583: Steve Tepp – Copyright Essentials for Photographers appeared first on Photography Business Xposed - Photography Podcast - how to build and market your portrait and wedding photography business.

Premium Members, click here to access this interview in the premium area Arica Lipp of www.aricalipp.com caught my attention when a video of her behind-the-scenes shoot of a young dancer was circulating on social media. The photo looked, literally, like a painting, but when you see the video, you realise there was paint involved—it was on the young girl in the photo. You can see the photo in the show notes below to appreciate how amazing this photographer/artist is. The comments that followed that video and image in the PBX Member's Group went like this… Wow! People are just so bloody clever!!!!! This is amazing Amazing! I'm astounded! I was literally just watching the BTS when you reposted. This is just magic! So so gooooooood!!!!!!!! Love the creativity! I dug a little deeper to find a super-talented US-based photographer who has won a ton of awards… over 100! Who photographs headshots, portraits, seniors and dance photography clients. Take one look at her website and portfolio, and you'll see a photographer who truly knows her craft. I was guessing and hoping there was a fantastic business behind this incredible photographer, I was not disappointed. In this interview, learn how to combine your passions to build a thriving photography business. Here's some more of what we covered in the interview: Embrace Business & Marketing: Arica highlights the importance of integrating business and marketing into your photography practice, emphasising them as key drivers of success. Background & Transition: Arica’s journey from fine art to photography, driven by personal need, shows how combining passion with a clear business focus can lead to success. Viral Success: A single viral photo gave Arica’s business a major boost, proving the power of emotionally impactful, shareable content that resonates with clients. Overcoming Imposter Syndrome: Staying true to yourself and avoiding comparisons with others is key to personal and business growth, as Arica shares from her own experience. Niche Down & Build Online Presence: Finding a niche, such as headshots, and building a strong online presence are critical steps in growing a successful photography business. Client Relationships & Upselling: Building genuine relationships with clients, educating them on the value of professional photos, and mastering the art of upselling are essential to boosting revenue. Specialised Photography: Focusing on niche markets like dance photography and headshots allowed Arica to meet specific client needs and strengthen her business. Networking & Marketing: Effective networking involves attending events, building relationships, and giving back to the community, such as through charity donations, to build goodwill. Business Growth & Delegation: Arica’s plans for business growth include outsourcing tasks, hiring staff, and learning how to delegate effectively to support expansion. Vision for the Future: Arica’s vision includes expanding her services while maintaining high-quality work, offering valuable insights into scaling a photography business. The purpose of niching in the beginning is to become memorable in the minds of a consumer, in the minds of your community, in your market. When you have a specific style, and it's consistent, you're more quickly remembered in the minds of people and viewers. – Arica Lipp What’s on Offer for Premium Members If you’re on the fence about becoming a premium member, join with the $1 trial today and get access to the FULL interviews each week, a fantastic back catalogue of interviews, and have ALL future interviews delivered automatically to your phone or tablet. Plus, special member-only interviews. I had to get over the fear of how I look in front of the camera. Because I can't ask my clients to do something I'm not willing to do myself. It's just not right. We all know that. So I put myself out there. – Arica Lipp You'll also receive access to the members-only Secret Facebook Group, where you can connect with other Premium Members and interview guests to help, support and motivate you to take ideas you hear in each episode and put them into action. The group also has FB live video tutorials, role-play, and special live interviews. You will not find more friendly, motivated, caring and sharing photographers online. Seriously, that's not all. In addition to everything above, you'll get access to instructions on forming or joining a MasterMind Group with other premium members. These groups are super motivating, make you accountable, and build friendships with other pro photographers with motives similar to yours – to build a more successful photography business. What is your big takeaway? Following this interview, I’d love to know if you're taking anything from what Arica shared. Is there something you heard that excited or motivated you to the point where you thought, yeah, I'm going to do that! If so, leave your thoughts in the comments below; let me know your takeaways and what you plan to implement in your business based on what you heard in today's episode. I'm going to value my work and even though it feels gut wrenchingly difficult, I'm just going to do it. And it gets easier. And then the more work you put in, the more you value that time and effort. – Arica Lipp If you have any questions I missed, a specific question you’d like to ask Arica, or a way to thank you for coming on the show, feel free to add them in the comments area below. iTunes Reviews and Shout-outs I check for any new iTunes or Google reviews each week, and it's always a buzz to receive these… for several reasons. Firstly, it's confirmation that I'm on the right track with the interviews and that they are helping you improve your photography business. That's awesome! Secondly, iTunes and Google are the most significant podcast search engines, and your reviews and ratings help other photographers find PhotoBizX. More listeners mean more interviews and, ultimately, a better show. My clients will come by just to say ‘hi' a lot. And I'm okay with that. And that's what I honestly feel is the secret of the success. When you treat people like they should be treated, they will come to you. AI is not going to take care of them the way I'm going to take care of them and it comes down to that. – Arica Lipp If you have left a review in the past, thank you! If you haven't and you'd like to, head to https://photobizx.com/itunes or https://photobizx.com/google. You can leave some honest feedback and a rating, which will help both me and the show. I'll be sure to thank you on the show and add a link to your website or blog if you let me know the URL of your website and your name. Alternatively, if you've left a review for PhotoBizX and are looking for more backlinks to help your SEO, leave a review for the new Photography Xperiment Podcast. Email me your keywords or phrases and where you'd like me to link them. Another great way to get a backlink to your site is to send a video testimonial. It doesn't need to be fancy, and your phone will be perfect. Click record and tell me how PhotoBizX has impacted you and your photography business.​ Here is the latest review… ★★★★★  Ticks All The Boxes! Via Google by Adelaide pet photographer Sarina Veliz, in Australia on September 3rd, 2024. Andrew is an amazing educator. I came across him a few years ago when I did a short course on video creation – I didn’t even know he was a photography expert! But boy I am glad I discovered him. He is also a fantastic podcast host, his interview style is fun and easy to listen to – I struggle sometimes finding podcasts that are both engaging, educational and have some light entertainment – his ticks all those boxes! The thing that really stood out for me is that there is no problem too small for Andrew to jump right in, have a chat and figure things out. Also I randomly replied to one of his newsletters one day and of course he responded straight back! Just an all-around great guy! Links to people, places and things mentioned in this episode: Arica Lipp Website Arica Lipp on Facebook Arica Lipp on Instagram Episode 012: Jerry Ghionis – Cooking Up Wedding Photography Success, Don’t Get Caught in the Fire Episode 145: Peter Hurley – How To Survive and Thrive as a Headshot Photographer Episode 087: Sue Bryce – How to Make Real Money From Your Photography Business Right Now Episode 448: Megan DiPiero – Go high end with your photography business or get ready to fail Thank you! Thanks again for listening and for Arica's sharing her journey from starving artist to thriving photography business owner by combining her love of dance, painting, photography and business. We as photographers had that power to create these wonderful things that will keep giving to people that we created it for. And I wouldn't miss that. And I wouldn't feel like me if I stopped serving people to that extent. And it fulfills me. It fulfills me as an artist, fulfills me as a human, being able to connect with other humans. Headshots and branding only takes me so far artistically. There is a limit to the artistry. – Arica Lipp That’s it for me this week; I hope everything is going well for you in life and business! Thanks, and speak soon Andrew The post 582: Arica Lipp – From Paint to Profit: Building a Thriving Photography Business appeared first on Photography Business Xposed - Photography Podcast - how to build and market your portrait and wedding photography business.

Premium Members, click here to access this interview in the premium area Gary Williams, of www.garywilliams.photography, has been published in the New York Times, had his photography displayed in galleries around the world, shown on billboards across London, and describes himself as a London-based documentary photographer. If you visit his website, it’s clear that his primary focus is on weddings and portraits. However, if you explore further, you’ll find he also specialises in commercial, event, and headshot photography. Recently, he completed a four-year project documenting and celebrating the businesses and people of what he describes as London’s most charming street—Camden Passage—located not far from his home. In an email, he mentioned that this project has been invaluable for developing his photography skills. It has also boosted his confidence in approaching and networking with people and has helped him attract new clients to his photography business. Although his business is relatively new and his income modest, his work is outstanding. A project like this could be life-changing for you and your business. I hope you’re as eager to learn more as I am. In this interview, learn how personal projects can boost your photography business. Here's some more of what we covered in the interview: Insights on growing a business through a four-year project. Personal struggles with self-doubt and imposter syndrome. The importance of recognising and celebrating personal achievements despite the challenges of the creative industry. Starting a photography career later in life. Exploring photography genres and addressing the stigma often associated with wedding photography. Gary reflects on his initial hesitation towards wedding photography due to negative attitudes from his street photography peers. The potential threat of AI to his corporate headshot business and exploring alternative options like weddings and events. Debunking misconceptions about wedding photography. Gary recounts his experience shooting his first wedding. VAT registration for UK photographers offers insights on avoiding VAT and its impact on business growth. Gary shares how his projects have been instrumental in his development and business growth. Street photography challenges, such as dealing with unwanted attention and criticism. The inspiration behind Gary’s photography project was to improve his street portraiture skills and connect with his local community. He discusses the loneliness that can come with being a photographer and how he sought human interaction. Gary’s sales techniques highlight the importance of effort and practice. He set a goal of making 100 cold calls per week to improve his sales skills, despite initial struggles and rejection. Gary discusses how consistent effort and practice have been key to building his skills, stressing the importance of putting in the time to improve. The importance of practice and repetition in honing skills. Cultivating and developing talents through hard work and dedication. Gary began making zines of his photography for personal satisfaction, eventually realising it could become a book. After taking a bookmaking workshop, he learned about sequencing and considered publishing a book. The process of creating a photo book, including portfolio reviews, sequencing images, and managing printing costs. Printing 150 books costs around £1,500, with additional expenses for portfolio reviews and related costs. His projects have led to unexpected opportunities, including paid work and networking connections, showcasing the value of pursuing one's passions. Creating 30-second videos to showcase your personality, making it easier for potential clients to connect with you. If there's one area of photography that I feel might be under threat from AI it's business and corporate headshots… And I thought, ‘I really want to be a photographer. I want to make my living from this. What else can I do?’ And I thought weddings and events. – Gary Williams What’s on Offer for Premium Members If you’re on the fence about becoming a premium member, join with the $1 trial today and get access to the FULL interviews each week, a fantastic back catalogue of interviews, and have ALL future interviews delivered automatically to your phone or tablet. Plus, special member-only interviews. I found the value of personal projects has been incredible, both in terms of what I've learned, and my development as a photographer, and in my business. – Gary Williams You'll also receive access to the members-only Secret Facebook Group, where you can connect with other Premium Members and interview guests to help, support and motivate you to take ideas you hear in each episode and put them into action. The group also has FB live video tutorials, role-play, and special live interviews. You will not find more friendly, motivated, caring and sharing photographers online. Seriously, that's not all. In addition to everything above, you'll get access to instructions on forming or joining a MasterMind Group with other premium members. These groups are super motivating, make you accountable, and build friendships with other pro photographers with motives similar to yours – to build a more successful photography business. What is your big takeaway? Following this interview, I’d love to know if you're taking anything from what Gary shared. Is there something you heard that excited or motivated you to the point where you thought, yeah, I'm going to do that! If so, leave your thoughts in the comments below; let me know your takeaways and what you plan to implement in your business based on what you heard in today's episode. I'm a big believer in doing things for the right reasons. You do it just because you love doing it. You do it for what is it right in front of you, which is the opportunity to to learn and to interact with interesting people and just to be a better photographer. And then if those other things come along, like credits or some work, then that's great. But I actually think if you do it for the right reasons, they usually do come along. – Gary Williams If you have any questions I missed, a specific question you’d like to ask Gary, or a way to thank you for coming on the show, feel free to add them in the comments area below. REGISTER AND SAVE, LAST CHANCE! Scaling with AI: Lead Generation, Pricing, SEO & Essential Tools. If you're tired of spending hours on social media to attract clients only to see minimal results. Or you're ready to break free from the content creation grind and focus on other things. Good news! Brianna's training will be a game-changer for you. All the details are here –>> ​ https://learn.photobizx.com/session-3-ai-marketing-for-photographers-registration/ Here's what you'll learn…      AI-Powered Lead Generation: Learn to identify your target audience with precision and create lead generation strategies that consistently deliver high-quality leads.      Data-Driven Pricing: Master the art of setting profitable prices based on market research, cost analysis, and your unique value proposition, so you're always paid what you're worth.      SEO Optimization with AI: Elevate your website's visibility and attract organic traffic by mastering AI-powered keyword research and content optimization strategies. Essential AI Tools for Photographers: Discover additional AI tools that can streamline your workflow, enhance your online presence, and boost your overall efficiency. The live training is on Thursday, September 5th, 2024, at 7:00 a.m. Sydney local time. Your local time is here. Cost is $197 and doubles after the live training.  Early bird bonuses… $100 off any other existing PBX Course. All the details are here: https://photobizx.com/ai3 The future of photography marketing is here. Master AI before it all gets too hard. iTunes Reviews and Shout-outs I check for any new iTunes or Google reviews each week, and it's always a buzz to receive these… for several reasons. Firstly, it's confirmation that I'm on the right track with the interviews and that they are helping you improve your photography business. That's awesome! Secondly, iTunes and Google are the most significant podcast search engines, and your reviews and ratings help other photographers find PhotoBizX. More listeners mean more interviews and, ultimately, a better show. There are no shortcuts. There are no shortcuts. I wish there were and if somebody knows some tell me and save me a lot of time and trouble. Everything that I've done where I've had any measure of success, it's just work. It’s just doing it. It's just putting the time in. And those people who say, ‘Oh, I can't talk to anyone.’ Yes, she can. Just do it and keep doing it until you get better at it. – Gary Williams If you have left a review in the past, thank you! If you haven't and you'd like to, head to https://photobizx.com/itunes or https://photobizx.com/google. You can leave some honest feedback and a rating, which will help both me and the show. I'll be sure to thank you on the show and add a link to your website or blog if you let me know the URL of your website and your name. Alternatively, if you've left a review for PhotoBizX and are looking for more backlinks to help your SEO, leave a review for the new Photography Xperiment Podcast. Email me your keywords or phrases and where you'd like me to link them. Another great way to get a backlink to your site is to send a video testimonial. It doesn't need to be fancy, and your phone will be perfect. Click record and tell me how PhotoBizX has impacted you and your photography business.​ Links to people, places and things mentioned in this episode: Gary Williams Website Gary Williams on Instagram The Little Book of Camden Passage This is Camden Passage on Instagram Thank you! Thanks again for listening and for Gary's sharing his journey so far and uncovering how personal projects can boost your photography business in so many ways. There's no secret. It's just do it. This is why I did all of those photographs for free and I still do for free this at home projects. I'll be doing it for years. Because the more I do, the better I get. – Gary Williams That’s it for me this week; I hope everything is going well for you in life and business! Thanks, and speak soon Andrew Episode Transcript Email Download New Tab 581: Gary Williams – How Personal Projects Can Boost Your Photography Business   Andrew Hellmich: Today's guest has been published in the New York Times, had his photography displayed in galleries around the world, shown in billboards around London, and he labels himself as a London based documentary photographer. Now if you visit his website, it's pretty obvious that he's all about weddings and portraits, and you need to dive a little deeper to see that he also shoots commercial event and headshot photography as well. Recently, he completed a four year project documenting and celebrating the businesses and people of what he says is London's most charming street, Camden Passage, not far from his home. And he told me via email that the project has been invaluable in regard to growing his skills as a photographer, giving him more confidence to approach and network with people and attract new clients to his photography business. Now, although his business is relatively new, and his income, he says, is modest, his work is fantastic, and I believe a project like this could be life changing for you and your business. I hope you're as keen to hear more as I am, I'm talking about Gary Williams, and I am rapt to say that he's with us now. Gary, welcome. Gary Williams: Wow. That guy sounds really impressive. You just made that guy sound like someone I want to listen to. It's always funny, isn't it? You know, when somebody like reads off your sort of whatever you've done, like, you know, like, could be years of sort of achievements in a few sentences. You think, "Oh, that sounds good". But of course, when you're actually living it day in and day out and sweating and, you know, trudging the streets and stressing about how many Instagram posts you're doing and whether you've got your VAT return done, and all these other stuff, it never, never feels like we're doing any good, does it really, until you sort of somebody else says it in a few sentences. Andrew Hellmich: It's so true. It's so true. And you know what I actually I go through the same thing myself. I sometimes I question my abilities as a photographer, but I have as my screen saver my best work, what I consider my best work, and it comes up.. Gary Williams: I like that. Andrew Hellmich: I'm reminded, "Hey, I'm actually all right at this. I'm okay as a photographer". Gary Williams: You know, I think what we should do, Andrew, is that we should, everybody listening to this, you should invite everybody on as a guest, but just do the intro. Just give them an entry. So something you could charge, you could charge $50 just give them an intro, and everybody's going to go away happy right?. Now, it's true. I think we all need to be reminded sometimes that, you know, we've done some good things throughout all the crap that we have to wade through to get there, right? That's the reality of it, isn't it? Andrew Hellmich: A I00%. Gary Williams: It is for me. Andrew Hellmich: It is, it is. And it feels like you're making slow progress, until you stop and look back and I think, "Wow". You know, "We've all come a long way". Gary Williams: It is, it's hard, you know, to sort of smell the roses, isn't it?, because you just, I mean, for me, I'm always working on the next thing, and, you know, I'm always like, you know, just, I don't trying to, it's a continuous path of self improvement, isn't it? And it's just trying to get better, and it's not, I mean, I do purposely try and avoid looking at too many other photographers online and stuff and comparing myself thinking, "Oh, I'm not doing well enough". You know? I don't really suffer with that so much. I kind of avoid that. But it's just, it's like a personal thing, right? Sometimes we can be our own worst critics, but then that's what helps to drive our work forward and make it better, right? But it's anyway. Hello. Thank you for having me on. Andrew Hellmich: That's a pleasure, Gary. Gary Williams: It's so nice to be here. Andrew Hellmich: Well, you know what I want to do? I want to dive into the business side of things before we get into the book. Because there's a few things that I've read and you told me that I don't know they feel like they're not adding up for me. So the first one is you told me that you haven't been in business that long. How long have you been in business as a photographer? Gary Williams: Well, I've been in business a long time, but as a photographer, I mean, it's that's a funny thing, isn't it? When do you call yourself a professional photographer, right? Because you're kind of doing it, and then maybe somebody's given you a bit of money, and then you sort of like, what happened for me was actually my first proper paid job as a photographer was only January last year. Andrew Hellmich: Really? Gary Williams: 2023 Yeah, it was very recently. So I'd been a hobbyist for a long time, and during COVID, I sort of started to take it in. In fact, what happened just before COVID, I did a workshop in India with Martin Parr and that was, I mean, he never does workshops, and a friend of mine, were both big fans of his work. And a friend of mine saw this thing on, I think it was on Magnum's Instagram, and we said, "Let's do it", you know, because it was just before COVID. So we had loads of money. Life was good. What could go wrong?. So we just sort of let's we just spent loads of money on this trip, indulgent trip to India. Had a week with Martin Parr, which was amazing. And just really after we came back from that, is when COVID really started, and the world turned upside down. But that sort of refired my enthusiasm. We both bought new cameras. We had to have new cameras, you know, for our workshop, right? Because that's how you take better pictures, is by having a really expensive camera. And so it was really, I carried on, sort of, you know, during COVID, I was doing a lot of online learning, and then at the end of COVID, I started to take my photography a bit more seriously, but actually getting a proper paid job, like a decent, well paid professional job, not through a friend or a friend of a friend, but, you know, based on my own merits, was only January last year, 2023 and that was for a clothing brand. And I guess we'll come on to this in a minute. But that job, and so many of the other jobs that I've done since then have come as a result of the free community projects that I've done, and I've not done those to try and get work. I've done them for other reasons, but, you know, just getting out there, meeting people, people seeing you and seeing you as a professional photographer, and then they need some pictures doing, and you're the obvious person to ask, right? Because you're just there in front of them. Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, 100% so give me and the listener a snapshot of the business now. So you're a professional photographer now. Is there other income? Is it all photography?, and what is the revenue? Gary Williams: So I have, there's three things that I do, because my background is in singing, and I still sing. So I've worked, you know, all over the world as a singer, and most of the work, but most of the income that I had for a long time has been as a singer on cruise ships, as it what we call a guest entertainer. So I'll fly onto a ship. I might only be there for two or three days. I go on do a show, work with the musicians, you know, in the theater that they have on the ship, and then I leave. So I go on do it, and get off. I've done that for a long time and well established at it. And, you know, I get well paid for that. And very well, I've sort of, you know, got one of those deals that you just wouldn't get these days, you know, sort of one of those sort of old legacy deals. And, you know, so I was really kind of made and set up doing that, you know, I was doing other work as well, some of it quite high profile work. But what was wrong for me is that I just got to a time in my life where I was just sick of being away all the time, because I was doing like 30 odd, 30-35, of those cruises a year, and even though they're often for just for a few days, it sort of feels like you're always away and you're always missing family things and stuff. And I just got to a stage where I just didn't want to do that. I got a lovely new boyfriend, and I thought, you know, I just want to be at home more. You know, I always forget how old I am. I think I'm, hang on. I'm 53 now. So, you know, I'm just gonna retire. Don't want to be away all the time, right? And so I thought, what can I do? So I cut down the cruise ship work, and I actually intended to do it. And last year I did only eight, seven cruises, seven cruises. And that seemed kind of nice. I was going to a bit of income. Still keep my hand in, I love the work. But for this actual year, what happened was, because I started booking a load of weddings, my availability for the ships, by the time they came to book me, I had no availability. So I kind of found myself unintentionally retired from cruising. I'm doing one cruise this year because the weddings had sort of taken over and filled my diary. And on the one hand, I was thrilled about that, because I got a lot of weddings quite quickly. But on the other hand, my main and important income stream at this early point in my photography career had pretty much gone. So that's the singing. The other thing that I do is presenting a voice-over work, and I've done that for many years, and actually I kind of stopped doing that, and then COVID came along, and that was the thing that I could do, working from home, right? I could do voiceovers and presenting stuff. And that has continued to, actually, kind of boom actually, so that now is my main income, and those that, and, you know, the singing that I do, because I do some land gigs, I'm happy to do singing gigs here in London, those two things really have been supporting me at this early stage of my photography career. You know, I guess it's important for some of your listeners to hear this. I think because everybody that you have on your podcast, and I love your podcast, I'm a big fan. They're so impressive, and they're throwing around these big numbers, and I listen to them sometimes think, "Okay, yeah", that's "Okay, maybe one day I'll be doing, you know, 100k or this or that or the other, or selling all that, you know, 1000s of dollars worth of wedding albums". But I, you know, right at the beginning of career, sometimes it can be intimidating, right? It's inspiring, but at the same time can be bit intimidating to hear people who are much further down the line doing these crazy, impressive and wonderful numbers. So I'm kind of really, I'm a middle-aged guy really starting a new career from scratch. And yeah, thank goodness I have the presenting stuff and the singing to give me a bit of support while I develop this new business. Andrew Hellmich: Well, that's a beautiful way to start a business, to have the other businesses supporting what you're doing and what you're passionate about. You're calling yourself a professional photographer now, so I'm guessing there's a consistent income stream?. Gary Williams: Yeah, so I guess you want to know numbers. So this year, I'm looking at my little board to my left here. So this year, if I don't get any more work, I'll have done about 30,000 pounds as a photographer. Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So fantastic. Gary Williams: I'm really happy with that, because it's kind of well like, you know. So my first paid job was last year, at the beginning of last year, and not, I didn't really do that much last year because that was a job for a fashion company, doing flat lay stuff, which, incidentally, I'd never done before, didn't have a clue. But of course, when they said, "Can you do this?", I said, "Yes, of course, I can". And then I went home and tried to figure it out. And I had a room. I have a room in my house, which I turned into a little home studio. And of course, from my background, as you know, being a singer, I know a lot of actors and singers, so I really set myself up being a headshot photographer, and that's what I thought I was going to do. I didn't think about weddings at all. Why? Because my sort of background in shooting was doing street photography, and most of my street photography fans would just really turn their noses up at weddings. Like, "Oh, weddings", like, like, it was the pits, you know. And I really recognize that kind of attitude. I mean, at the time, I just agreed with them, right? "Oh, wedding". It's just, you know, saying "It's awful. We can't even anything, worse for a photographer to do, and these nightmare brides and all". So I just thought, well, I didn't know any better. I thought, "Yeah, yeah, who wants to do weddings? That'd be awful". And what happened was, after whatever, a year of me doing the headshots, and the head shots was going great. And I really loved that work. I loved working in the studio and figuring out the lighting, and that was developing nicely, that business. And then everybody was talking about AI, and that made me worried. And I don't, I mean, we can, maybe this is another podcast, but I thought, you know, if there's one area of photography that I feel might be under threat from AI is kind of business corporate headshots, you know, if all my friends are sending me pictures of them that they've taken with their phone, and suddenly they're like, in a space helmet or, you know, riding a lion and it looks amazing. If I just want to, you know, if I'm working, if I've got a firm and I've got 20 people working for me, and I just want some nice, clean headshots, you know, I thought that, I think that business might be under threat. And I thought, "I really want to be a photographer. I want to make my living from this. What else can I do?". And I thought, "Weddings and events". Andrew Hellmich: So what I'm curious about is why your documentary photography friends were turning their noses up at weddings, when, to me, that's the one genre where you can be paid handsomely to be a documentary photographer. Gary Williams: Yeah, I absolutely agree with you and that I've subsequently learned. But you know, I think that is also the reason why those people were turning their nose at her, but because most street photographers that I know, that's not how they earn the living, right? They're just doing, they're hobbyists. They like taking pictures. And I would go out with them, and we'd just have fun, you know, doing street photography, right? And so even the very thought of getting paid for anything that's not just there for the art sake, is somehow, you know, the content. But you know, as a singer on cruise ships, I really recognize this attitude, because I'd had the same thing for years with cruise ships. So, you know, I've been lucky enough I performed in the West End. I've sung at Carnegie Hall or the Royal Albert Hall. I've toured in Australia or the Melbourne Symphony. So I've done some big stuff as a singer, and people, you know, I've got this list of stuff that I could rattle off, and people go, "Wow, that's impressive". Soon as you mentioned cruise ships. I don't know what it's like in Australia, for wherever people are listening to this, but it's somehow tinged with this sort of cheesy, you know, velvet bow tie 1970s crooner, just a little bit sad, you know, you I mean, it's that sort of Simon Cowell X Factor thing of, you know, "Well, you know, we don't want you, but I'm sure you'll do well on cruise ships", or some, "Someone will have you", right? So cruise ships have got this kind of reputation of being a place where sort of, it's a bit of a sell-out. There's no artistic merit to it, you know, you just sort of go on there and, okay, you can't get a job anywhere else so go on a cruise ship, which anybody that really does that serious will know that it's absolute nonsense. I mean, I always say variety isn't dead. It's just moved to sea. And the ships that I work on now, the, you know, the theaters are like 1600 seat theaters that absolutely slay, to the other stuff that they've got so amazing. The production to the production value is astonishing. And, you know, it's a whole different skill set as singing, like seven different languages. You gotta be able to, you know, it's a skill set to be able to do that job well to a high standard, right? And so anybody that's doing it knows that those snobs or the people looked down on it are completely wrong and misinformed, right? But it just, it goes back years, right? That attitude goes back to when it was a bit cheesy. And I think it's exactly the same applies to wedding photography, that those that don't do it and those that don't know they look at wedding photography, "Oh yeah, it's just some guy in a you know, terrible suit standing on a ladder telling everyone to say cheese or something", you know. And "It's just this awful, uncreative place that sad photographers go because they can't get any work, you know, in fashion or something more worthy", you know. And so that, all right, "They'll do weddings, and it's just a bit all a bit sad, right, you know, and someone to be almost looked down upon, you know, by everybody". And that, of course, anybody that's doing is nonsense. And I did my first wedding. I looked the other day, but what is the date? So it's not even a year since I did my first wedding. So my first wedding was August, or something, last year, and we'll get onto this. But I was so nervous. I mean, I was so, I'm not someone that has anxiety, but I had two anxiety dreams the night before, as I never had one in my life before. I was just so petrified, and I'd watched it. Must have watched, you know, every single YouTube video on how to shoot a wedding, you know. And it went great. And I was completely won over. I mean, I was completely like, I loved it. I mean, it was stressful, it was a long day, but I loved it. I was like, "This is amazing. I'm getting to do exactly the kind of pictures that I like to do", which was mostly documentary and just really kind of, you know, emulate the people that I love, like Martin Parr, and I also like doing portraits. And I'm, you know, all my experience in the studio and posing with people and working with people, and, you know, understanding lighting. I love doing bit with a couple, you know, for 10 minutes, 20 minutes, half an hour, whatever it was going out and doing a couple times, and the rest of it being documentary. I mean, for me, I was complete. I was like, "This is where I belong. This uses all of my skill sets. This is what I love doing." And I just realized how really ignorant all the people were that were looking down at wedding photography, I mean, and I’m more fully alarmed because, yeah, there's money to be earned there. There's a lot of fun to be had there. And anybody that does it knows that it's just you're there right at the center of the happiest of days. I mean, nobody's moaning or complaining, you know, everybody's happy, everybody's happy to see the photographer. I mean, it's a really beautiful thing. I think so good. Andrew Hellmich: It's lovely hearing you talk about it, because it's so true. All those things that you're discovering, feeling, finding, are exactly why we all get into it and why we love doing it. So that's really refreshing to hear. I want to bring you back to a couple of things. Well, first of all, that I said in the intro, but also you mentioned the VAT, and this always comes up when I'm talking to photographers based in the UK. So you have your three different income sources.. Gary Williams: Yeah Andrew Hellmich: Are they registered as different businesses? Or do you have to combine the income from all those and then register for VAT? Or do you try and stay under the threshold? How does that work for you? Gary Williams: I'm not registered for VAT. Andrew Hellmich: Right Gary Williams: I said VAT as a sort of an example of, you know, those awful sort of business. I used to be registered for VAT years ago when I had a different business, which was in fire safety training. So we won't talk about that today. That's beyond the scope of this podcast. But my income, my income as a presenter, is mostly through Fiverr. You know, Fiverr, the sort of freelancer website. Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, fiverr.com. Gary Williams: Yes. And because, and, I mean, I've researched this as best I can, I've had my accountant look at this, but because Fiverr is based in Israel, so that work is sort of contracted out there, it does not come under the scope for British value added tax, and so I still pay tax on that income, but as far as VAT is concerned, it doesn't contribute towards the threshold. So that means, because, I, of course, I mean, I guess you have the same kind of sales tax in Australia or most countries, and you know, no photographer wants to be registered for VAT because you're not dealing, no wedding photographer, because you're not dealing with businesses, they can't claim the VAT, but they can't claim the sales tax back. So that just makes us, in the case of the UK, I guess it's 20% so I'll be just 20% more expensive, and the only people that are benefiting is the government, right? So yes, there are ways to legitimately avoid that. And I looked into that because at one point I thought, I am going to need to be VAT registered for my other businesses. So as long as you know, what I would have done is started a limited company, had different directors, and it would have been very clearly different people involved, doing a very different service to the other things that I do. And I would have, I think, confidently, have been able to demonstrate to the tax office that, you know, this is a different business, different people are involved. Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Gary Williams: It's a different entity to me, singing or presenting. Andrew Hellmich: A 100%. Gary Williams: So, you know, but I know it's a big issue. And I know some photographer friends that, I mean, it's terrible, really, that they, you know, they get to a point where they're getting near the limit, and they, they're just turning down work. I mean, it's not killing their business, but it is stopping, it's throttling their business. Andrew Hellmich: It's stifling growth. It seems crazy. Gary Williams: Stifling growth. You know, they're specifically not selling albums, you know, because you know that few 100 extra dollars might take them over the limit. And you know, that's all for now. I guess the limits got to be somewhere, right? The line's got to be somewhere. So, you know, there's always going to be that issue. But it is a shame. It's a shame that anything should be there that is stifling a successful businesses growth, but because my photography is quite new, and that numbers just aren't big enough yet, that's not a situation that I have to worry about yet. Andrew Hellmich: What seems crazy to me, Gary, is in the UK, and I don't know if this is in other parts of the world, that once you go over the threshold, you have to apply that VAT to everything you've earned up to that threshold. It's not just anything above that, it's the whole lot . Gary Williams: You're right. Yes, correct. Andrew Hellmich: So you're basically going a big step backwards before you go forwards. But of course, if you can take a big step forward, then it is worthwhile. Let me just bring you back to something I said in the intro, which, again, I'm curious about, I'm sure the listeners questioning this as well. I said you've been published in the New York Times, had your photography displayed in galleries around the world and shown on billboards around London. But you've only been shooting professionally for a year. Gary Williams: All that good, all that fancy stuff, right? Yeah. How did I do that? Andrew Hellmich: Yeah? Gary Williams: Well, I'm going to tell you. So what I did was I started two projects, personal projects. And, you know, because I'm quite new to this, and I can't give your listeners any, like, amazing tips on how to, you know, make fortunes or break a, you know, a million dollars in turnover. But what I can say is, I found the value of personal projects has been incredible, both in terms of what I've learned and my development as a photographer and in my business. So the two projects were, well, I'm going to use the past tense in the sense of the Camden Passage project, which is the book that will perhaps mention later on, that is a project which I've started shooting in March 2020 and so I guess that was, I mean, we must have still been in COVID, but must have had some kind of freedom, because I've just looked at the EXIF data. And yeah, it was March 2020 I was out there taking pictures. So I, you know, hadn't had experience in really approaching people, and other than on the street, but just going into shops, businesses and asking to take their photograph and posing them. And I really wanted to develop that experience. And in some cases, some of the shopkeepers would say, "Well, you know, we're busy, we're open, but if you come back, you know, tomorrow we're closed, and bring some lights, and whatever you want to do, we'll do it properly". So I would treat each of those jobs as if I was being paid a lot of money to do them, and I was nervous, like I was being paid money to do them, right?, and I didn't really know what I was doing. So each of those shoots that I was doing for free was a huge learning curve for me, and I was delighted to do it for free, because, I mean, it was last night. I didn't have to pay models. I didn't, I mean, for me, you know, I didn't go to study photography university for two or three years. This was my university. And I always say that Camden Passage was my university because I was there for four years doing it, and I wasn't getting paid money to do it. But it wasn't costing, I wasn't having to spend a lot of money on university fees either. And each job I had, I mean, some places, they were incredible. Sort of this one guy down there who's got, like, a world class collection of Oriental art like that he loans to museums, and so he's got this sort of subterranean warehouse, you know, and I photographed him in there. And it was pretty tricky, because, you know, I had to take quite a few of my studio lights in and but each one of those I did, I just learned so much from. And also what happened is that I slowly accumulated a strong portfolio of pictures, and I started entering those in competitions. And some of those competitions, you know, they did well. And some of the competitions, or I was entering them to sort of, you know, well, I guess it was a competition, but with established galleries that would then show the winning entrance in a an actual physical gallery, you know, that people could see. And that was happening with the Camden Passage project. And at the same time, I started another project, which is ongoing called At Home, where I'm photographing interesting people in their homes, and that's been a brilliant project for me. It's time consuming, and it's quite sort of difficult to set up, but, you know, I really get to spend time with people. I maybe spend an hour or two in their homes, and I treat those as though I'm being paid as a commission by a magazine or a newspaper to go and take, some of the people that I photograph are famous. Some of them are not, but I treat everyone as if this is kind of a big deal and I'm getting paid well. I'm not getting paid anything, but I treat them as though I am, and I want my work to be worthy of any kind of serious publication that might have commissioned me. And again, I've learned so much with that, so that now, if I go into someone's home or workplace to do those kind of photos, I mean, I'm very comfortable. Of course, one's always a little bit apprehensive, and what am I going to find? What's it going to be like? And you don't you know what's going to happen, right? But I've got the skill set now to confidently approach any of those situations and know that I can deliver ,so that if I do get commissioned and ask, as I have been subsequently, to do those kind of jobs that I can, confident I don't have to BS my way in to that, I can confidently say, "Yeah, I can do that, and I'll deliver pictures that I'm happy with". So with those two projects, I've produced a body of work, particularly that the At Home stuff has given me some really interesting images of some really interesting people. So that's how I've got a lot of those credits and the gallery stuff. And, you know, for example, one of those was with Nikki Haslam, who's a well-known British designer, and I went to his home. I mean, it took, you know, three hours to get to his home, and I did the photographs. And then, one of the photographs was used quite recently, and I think it was like in Home Interior. So it's like a big national magazine, they needed a photograph of him for a feature they were doing on him in their 500th issue, and they asked if they could use one of those photos. So then I got the credit of that photo being used in that pretty major national publication. He also does this tea towel every year. It's kind of this comedy tea towel saying things that are sort of, you know, a common, is Nikki Haslam's Common Tea Towel. And he asked and he used one of the images that I did from that shoot. And that's happened quite a lot. There's somebody else that I did in Camden Passages had a book written about them, so they use one of the pictures in that and of course, they're paying for these images as well at this point. Somebody else had was featured in a centenary of their school that they went to, and one of the images that I took was featured in that and that's happened a lot with those images. So I'm a big believer in doing things for the right reasons, doing things not maybe I can do this and eventually they're going to pay me for it, or it's going to get in a magazine. Forget all that. You do it just because you love doing it and because of what it's giving you at the time. You do it for what is right in front of you, which is the opportunity to learn and to interact with interesting people and just to be a better photographer. And then if those other things come along, like credits or some work, then that's great. But I actually think if you do it for the right reasons, they usually do come along. Andrew Hellmich: It comes anyway. Tell me just quickly about the billboard, like, how did that end up there? And were you paid for it? Gary Williams: Kind of the same thing. I'd, well, yes, I, with Camden Passage. So this is a place in London, near Angel tube. It's pretty so it's quite close to where I live. There is, kind of like a government associated organization, like a business. It's an organization to sort of represent businesses to the local council and to sort of further the interests of local businesses in a quite a localized area in which includes Camden Passage. And people that I was photographing said, "Oh, have they contacted you?". They'd always talk to me about this group, this organization. So I thought, well, you know, I'm going to go see them and just say 'hi'. So I had a meeting with them and told them that "I'm a photographer. This is what I'm doing. I don't know if this you can use me for anything". So they started using me to photograph their events, and then I did their headshots and photographs for their annual report, and then, and this is how this project happened, because, you know, it was they needed, they were doing a new website, and they needed loads of new images. Rather than getting stock images, they wanted loads of new images of the area, which I know well. So it was a no brainer to commission me to do that, which I did. They're doing features of local, you know, important business people, and they wanted photographs of them in their homes or in their workplaces, which what do you know? I'd spent the last few years doing that as a hobby anyway, so that was fine. And then they've got a billboard that they're advertising something on, and they needed an image for the billboard, and they were quite specific about what they wanted. And as an aside, the image that they wanted was of sort of a green area, in the area, and there's this one particular place called Islington Green. It's this sort of small patch of green right in the middle of the sort of high street. And it was a beautiful day. I'd waited till the light was right I could get the kind of image that I wanted. And I'm shooting. And of course, while I'm shooting, there's people laying around sunbathing and stuff, including a few kids. I was shooting at, like 20 to 23 mil or something like that. So, you know, it's everybody, and it's very small, and I could see a few people like giving me an odd look, and I thought, I know why they're looking at me. I'm just going to ignore it. And then these two people came over and basically accused me of being a pedophile, for taking pictures of the kids. And it was really embarrassing and really, really awkward. And of course, I'm sort of mortified, and I'm telling them what I'm doing, give them, you know, I'm sort of explained and I stopped what I was doing. And then that, really, I thought about that a long time afterwards, and I thought, you know, and then it made me a kind of crossed, and I should have told them to mind their own business and whatever, but, you know, hadn't at the time. But anyway, yeah, one of those. Fortunately, I'd already got an image which would ended up on the billboard, but I didn't tell the client that I was accused as a pedophile taking their image that ended up being used on a billboard. But these are the things that, yeah, but these are the things that I mean, actually, I had a little period of shooting street stuff. I had my Bruce Gilden week, where just to push myself out of my comfort zone. I thought, I'm going to do a Bruce Gilden, I'm going to go into Soho with a flash and loads of attitude in people's faces, taking pictures of, you know, doing a Bruce Gilden and, oh man, I got, I got a shout. I was I got a lot of abuse. Andrew Hellmich: I bet. Gary Williams: I got a lot of abuse those two days. Yeah, I got some nice pictures. But, yeah, so I suppose a lot of street photographers, that kind of stuff comes with the territory, right? Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely. Let me ask you about the actual book. So, I mean, I read and you told us that you were, you did the trip with Martin to India that sort of inspired you, when COVID hit you started shooting for the book. Just tell me about the basis of the idea. Was it to produce a book? Was it to produce a body of work? Was it for an exhibition? Why did you start and what were you looking to get out of it in the very beginning? Gary Williams: In my mind, I thought, "Well, who knows, in the distant future, maybe, who knows? Maybe there's a book, maybe there's an exhibition", but, I mean, I really didn't, that was just a dim, distant possibility. That's certainly not why I did it. I did it for, I would say the two main reasons I did it. The first one was quite selfish in the, I, in fact, all the reasons are very selfish. The first reason was that I needed to, wanted to practice, you know, street photography and sort of skulking around, taking sneaky pictures of people, was never really my thing. I never liked that. I always liked doing kind of, what I would call street portraiture, which is saying hi to someone, having a little conversation, taking a picture and having a moment. And I really enjoyed that, and I still do enjoy that. I'd rather that than snaps. And also street photography, good street photography, which I love, and I love looking at, but it takes so long, I mean, to get really good, you know, those moments don't just happen, right? Usually they don't happen. You're waiting for them. You've got everything sort of cured, and you waiting for something to come into the frame, or, you know, it's, they're crafted. And I haven't got the patience for that. But I knew I like to do street portraiture, so I wanted to get better at that kind of stuff. I wanted to get better at talking to people, interacting with people, and, if necessary, posing people, and also being brave enough to approach market store holders and shopkeepers and interrupt what they were doing and ask if I can take their picture and so on. Another, the other reason, which was selfish, was that I've lived here for like, kind of 20 odd years. But, you know, I think this is quite common in big cities, certainly the case here in London. I still don't have real sort of strong community roots here, because it's so transient. I mean, of course, I've got friends around here, but you know that feeling of connection to, you know, I go into the coffee shop, I go into this shop and that shop, and I say "Hi!", and I've been going there for years, and we have a little chat, but that's kind of it. It's very transactional, right? Actually, really feeling, getting to know someone, and, you know, feeling you sort of got roots in your community. I think it's quite hard often in cities to find you certainly don't get that doing street photography, skulking around with your camera looking a bit weird, right? So I don't think this is why I started it, but I quickly found that doing the project, I was having proper conversations. I was there very, very regularly. And I really got to know everybody in this little street. Andrew Hellmich: How often were you there when you say regularly? Gary Williams: It obviously depended on work and what I was doing, but sometimes I'd be there maybe three or four times a week. And a really interesting thing that I found, and this is a big takeaway for me that I want to share with people, is that, you know, we can often think, if we're going to do a project, that, "Oh, you know, we've got to go to India, we've got to go to", you know, in my case, because I'm in London, think, "Wow, if I could go to Australia and take so", yeah, it's been amazing. And you might be thinking, "Wow, street photography in London, to be a mate", we all think that we've got to travel, and we've got to go a long way away, right?. This street's just down there from where I live. Okay, it's in a busy part of London. But what's really interesting is that you could easily, I mean, it would take you literally five minutes to walk down this street that I've done this whole project about. It's a tiny little street, right? But what I found is that the more time I spent there, the more there was to discover. It was like drilling down a microscope, enhanced more detail, enhance more detail, because everyone's got a story. And you know, whether it's someone I'm talking to in the street that I've just stopped and they might introduce me to someone else or and get you know, and I'd be taking pictures of, I got to know everybody in that street really well. And that led on to, somebody said to me, "It's just round the corner from Camden Passage is this lady. Have you met Susan Daniels? She's a famous opera singer, and she's handy fascinated". So one day I'm shooting their coronation street party, which is just off Camden passage. Got some great pictures there, which ended up doing well in competitions and in some exhibitions. But I meet this Susan Daniel, and actually she was the start of the At Home projects. I didn't call it At Home then. I said "I'd love to take a picture". Was really interesting person, great personality. I said, we arranged it, and I went to a home and took pictures, and the picture was still the best At Home picture that I've taken. We've since become great friends. I saw her just the other day with a lot of people in Camden Passage. I mean, I see them, it's big hugs. I can walk down Camden Passage. I really feel a presence, in a part of my community, and that's been a huge gift, really, which I didn't expect, which is communities given me. Also a benefit from it is that the work I did, and I started an Instagram profile just for that, that project, and it does help to spread the word for this little street, because a lot of shops are struggling on high streets. And, you know, I've really genuinely taken it upon myself to champion this street because it is special. And what happened is, talking about that company that you know, that the organization that paid me to do the billboard and the other photographs, they got into the project as well, and they were very supportive of it, and they approached me and said, "How would you feel about us staging, helping you stage an exhibition of this work?". And that would be amazing. And actually, it's already up. It's out, now, but it's going to be officially opened in about two weeks, I think, by the mayor of Islington, and they're making a big thing of it. And it's really, for me, it's a kind of a surreal moment to walk down the street and to see it's an outdoor exhibition, sort of a NOR, you know, poster size pictures of 14 of the images from this project, are there, you know, on the street, in a very busy part of London, walking from the subway to Camden Passage. And it's brilliant for the community. It's celebrating the people that work and live and shop in this little place. So the people you know that are in it, love it. It's always good for everyone all around. Andrew Hellmich: Sure. Gary Williams: Honor for me as a photographer. But how often do we get a chance to see our work displayed like that? And at the same time, as you know, we've just released the book of the images. And, you know, I thought a long time, is it going to be a zine? Am I going to do anything with it at all? Because it's an investment, but you see how I have you asked me one question I took for 20 minutes, so now I'm going to show that, and you can ask me another one. Andrew Hellmich: Well, just in regard to walking down the street now, Camden Passage, like, do you get recognized? Are you Gary the photographer now? Gary Williams: Very much. Yeah, very much. Andrew Hellmich: That's awesome. That's so good. Gary Williams: And it's lovely. I mean, you know, it's one of those things that if I'm in a hurry, I don't walk down there, you know, I don't be rude to people. But, yeah, I could very and, you know, it can get lonely as a photographer, right? And now I'm shooting weddings, you know, you come home, you're editing, editing, editing, you know, and you just need to get out. And, you know, my boyfriend lives with me now, but you know, for a long time he didn't. And you know, I could spend all day on my own. I think, you know, I just want to go. I don't need to. I don't want to go and have a big party somewhere. I don't need to, you know, have everybody around to the house. I do. I just want to chat to some nice people. I just need some human interaction. I always used to say, when I was working on ships, you know, it's very easy to go on a ship as an headliner. And you know, when you do the show, you're the man at the moment, and everyone's going crazy for you. Standing ovation. Days after the show, they're stopping you and, but before then, you're nobody, right? And you might not know anybody, and it could be quite lonely. And I used to say, as long as I get some kind of, you know, decent conversation, a bit of nice human interaction every day, I'm good. And so on those days that I'd be feeling a little bit lonely or think, "Okay, I need to get out now, get it away from my computer". I can just walk down Camden Passage. I mean, I could spend a couple of hours just walking down. This is full of little coffee shops and stuff. I can go in everybody knows me. Have a nice conversation, not just surface conversations, but nice, proper conversations with people who are pleased to see me, and all that has come about because of me doing this project, you know, for just for myself and for the community. Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So when you approach the very first business to start this project, I imagine there would have been nerves, you got past that. What did you tell them the photos were for? Because I'm sure that was the first question. What are these for, Gary?   Sign up to listen to the Premium Version https://photobizx.com/premium-membership   Andrew Hellmich: I love it. I love it. I've got one more comment to make, nothing to do with the book. So before I make that comment or even ask you about it, where is the best place for the listener to see the book, to see your work, where can we follow or find more about you online? Gary Williams: I was at the easiest place, to go to my website, which is my name, which is Gary Williams. 1 r in Gary. garywilliams.photography. And there you'll find a link to the Camden Passage. And from that page you can if you want to buy it or see more about it, or the Instagram, so the best page is garywilliams.photography Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And will we find the Instagram page or account? Gary Williams: Well, yeah. Or you can find me on Instagram. Instagram is garywilliams.photography. Andrew Hellmich: Great. All right. I'll add links to all those places so it's easy to find in the show notes. The comment that I did want to make or even ask you about, is the little YouTubes that I talked to. You're an easy guest to interview, that is, for sure. The YouTube videos on your website, I absolutely love them. Were they your idea? And you get any feedback or comment about them? Gary Williams: Which videos are these? Me talking about my business and stuff. Your wedding photographer. Andrew Hellmich: This is you, your head, your face, talking to camera, basically introducing yourself, saying that you want to work with the customer, Gary Williams: Right? Okay, yeah. Well, so I think I mentioned to you that I work as a presenter. So those kind of videos I make for other people all the time, that's kind of what I do. So I just made him for myself. I particularly, I think, for anything, but I think particularly for weddings, which is such an intimate thing, I have had huge positive feedback about those. And I know that what people tell me regularly, you know, in the sea of competition, as there is in London for wedding photography, people will say "We saw your video, and that's what's sway it for us". And the reason it's, so basically, what I'm doing in that video is just saying, "Hi, I'm Gary. This is what I do. This is the way that I should", but all that stuff they can just read on the same website, Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, but it's different. It's different. Gary Williams: Yeah, what the video is doing is basically it's just like “Oh, he seems like a nice guy".. Andrew Hellmich: Yes, 100%. Gary Williams: "But he's a person and he seems like a nice guy". It doesn't really matter what I'm saying, right? It's just and it doesn't really matter. I don't think even so much the production. They're quite well produced, because that's what I do, and I've got a professional setup here. But I would really, really recommend those so much to anybody watching this. Just put a face, and it doesn't matter if you feel a bit awkward again, just keep doing it and have 50 goes until you feel comfortable with it. Have 50 goes, you know, just do it and put it out there. Whether you pin it to your Instagram profile or you put it on your website, it doesn't matter if it's just on, you know, just recorded on your phone. I mean, the cameras on phones are amazing now, and same with, you don't need a fancy microphone attached to the phone. It's just, just something. You just say, "Hey, this is me. I'd love to work with. You got any questions? Please let me know". You bet all you're doing in 30 seconds is saying, "This is what I look like. I'm not some weird person, and you know, you're not able to just come and meet me in person right now as you're inquiring, but you kind of are, because this is me".. Andrew Hellmich: 100% Gary Williams: And I'm a nice guy. Andrew Hellmich: 100% Gary Williams: That's it, right? Andrew Hellmich: Yep. And I would implore the listener to go and check out these little videos, because they're 30 seconds to a minute and straight away even before, like just we'd never met or talked. But I jumped on, I had a look at that before I asked you to come on and do this interview. And went, "Oh, wow, you look like a nice guy". And that exactly what you said. That's all it took that 30 seconds. Gary Williams: No, that's kind of mission accomplished if you do it. If you want to work, because business, you know, it's all personal. It's all personally what we do, you know? And you can talk about the numbers and the quality of the photography and, you know, because, I mean, there's so many amazing photographers, far, far, far better than me, but at the end of the day, if they like you, you know, if you're nice guy, particularly at a wedding, you're going to be glued to them all day. You know, they got to like you. You've got to, you know, they're gonna, "Oh, he's all right, he'll do". The photographs of the 1000 you know, 1000 wedding photographers, and we're all taking the same pictures, pretty much, you know, we're all doing pretty much the same thing. Yeah, that's a good one That's not so good. We’re all doing the same stuff, you know, how they, how are they going to choose, you know, "Well, he seems like a nice guy. Price is all right, let's" Andrew Hellmich: I love it. On that note. Gary, massive thanks for coming on, for sharing everything you have. The book looks amazing. Your website, it stands out. You certainly stand out. And look, I had fun chatting to you, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the next project goes, where it leads, and following your progress in the photographic industry. Gary Williams: You'll be the first to know. And also, and I just say that if anybody does you know, contact me through, you know, sees the website or the Instagram, please feel free, if there's anything that I can help you with, if you're doing the same kind of project yourself, or there's any specifics that you want to ask me about, just message me. And I'm very, very happy to, we all need to help each other. One thing that I found about photography, the photography community, is that, I mean, I just think it's a really beautiful, helpful, supportive community, much more so than I found the music business. And I think it's just a really beautiful thing to be a part of. And I love, you know, helping and sharing whatever I've learned with other people, because that's how we all get better at what we do, and if we're able to give each other little shortcuts, I think that's a beautiful thing. Andrew Hellmich: I agree. I agree 100% I'm with you there all the way. So thank you for offering that. Again, I’ll put links to where people can find you on in the show notes. Gary, massive thanks. Gary Williams: My pleasure. Have a great day. Scroll back to top Sign up to receive email updates Enter your name and email address below and I'll send you periodic updates about the podcast. powered by The post 581: Gary Williams – How Personal Projects Can Boost Your Photography Business appeared first on Photography Business Xposed - Photography Podcast - how to build and market your portrait and wedding photography business.

Premium Members, click here to access this interview in the premium area Brendan Taylor of Baby Art Studios and The TogPod CRM for photographers has appeared on the podcast twice, and both interviews were eye-opening gems and not to be missed, with so many good ideas shared on how to grow your photography business In episode 502, Brendan hit hard with some home truths about running a successful photography business today. Trust me when I say he knows his numbers, marketing, business, and how to be profitable with a photography studio. Then, in episode 557, he shared exactly how he and his team make incredible lead conversions from their marketing campaigns and how they lead these new clients to fantastic wall art sales. This episode also shares another eye-opening idea. Since our last recording, Brendan has been nominated for best marketing campaign worldwide and overall entrepreneur of the year. Amazing stuff! In his last interview, he hinted at a new CRM for photographers: The Tog Pod. As the CRM is about to come to market, there has been a lot of chat in the Premium Members Group after good friend Elle Payne shared details of her beta testing of the product — which sounds like the solution of all solutions to running a photography business. I asked Members to post any questions they'd like answered about the new CRM, and I'm thrilled to say I have Brendan Taylor, a past guest, owner of Baby Art Studios, and the man behind Tog Pod, with us for this episode. In this interview, Brendan shares everything you need to know about TogPod, the new CRM that will revolutionise photography business. Here's some more of what we covered in the interview: Brendan discusses a new CRM for photographers, TOGpod. Brendan discusses the challenges of using CRM systems for his photography business, including high costs and limitations. Brendan Taylor claims his new system replaces various tools photographers use, including CRM, email marketing, and reporting systems, with unlimited features. The Tog Pod automates list cleanup and segmentation, ensuring only active subscribers receive emails. Brendan discusses using The Tog Pod for business management, imagery integration, and user support. How The Tog Pod system automates the photo editing and ordering process. Automating order uploading to a lab, saving time and reducing errors. The importance of future-proofing the system to tie into other labs globally. Updates on the integration of Xero with the photography CRM system. The difference between white labelling and reselling Go High Level based CRMs for photographers. Brendan and his team have customized The Tog Pod with their own workflows and automations, which they use to run their successful photography business. The customizations are unique to The Tog Pod and can be tailored to suit each user's business needs, including adding new features. How Baby Art has merged its marketing and CRM systems to streamline operations for newborn and family photography studios. Brendan emphasizes that the system is not just for newborn photographers but can be applied to any photographer capturing memories of various life events. Automated workflows integrate with Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, and Google ads for qualified leads. How The Tog Pod takes over and schedules a session for a client. Brendan outlines a new pricing strategy for TogPod, unlocking all features for all users at different stages of adoption. Tiered pricing will be introduced, with early adopters paying a lower price and later adopters gradually increasing their payments. Discussing pricing and data ownership for Go High Level's CRM system. Brendan reveals that the CRM owner retains ownership of all data and email addresses, sparking concern and debate. Brendan emphasizes data ownership and privacy at Tog pod. The Tog Pod commits to securing user data, exporting/downloading, and terminating. Brendan mentions that transferring data from other systems to The Tog Pod will involve manual work, depending on how easily the information is extracted from the other systems. Brendan confirms that a VA or employee can become a user or admin on The Tog Pod account to look after the account, and restrictions can be set to limit their access to certain features. Brendan discusses using Go High Level CRM for newborn and boudoir photographers. Using Tog Pod for CRM and communication, including features and onboarding process. Brendan explains that The Tog Pod does not allow users to use their existing mobile numbers, but they can port their numbers over from other providers like Twilio. Brendan demonstrates The Tog Pod's unified inbox feature, which consolidates all communication channels into one place, making it easier to manage and track customer interactions. The benefits of using Go High Level's CRM system include two-way text messaging and a customizable app. How to use The Togg Pod for event payments, with a small setup fee for onboarding. SMS and email costs for businesses, with specific numbers provided. Using The Tog Pod for sales and marketing, with follow-up and brand management tips. Brendan shares his experience with following up and generating sales, citing $120,000 spent on a coaching program to learn the technique. Brendan explains that the platform syncs with Ad Manager and other social media platforms, and there's a new Ad Manager feature for $100/month. Brendan highlights the convenience and ease of use of Go High Level, a CRM system specifically designed for photographers. Using WhatsApp and text messaging for business, with mentions of costs and AI capabilities. TogPod's AI capabilities include automated review replies and email creation using chat GPT. Building a successful photography business focusing on customer experience and long-term growth. Brendan emphasises the importance of support in the new podcasting platform, saying it's more important than any other feature. Brendan explains the pricing strategy for the platform, which has been changed to be more affordable and sustainable in the long term. Brendan discusses building trust and community over time to improve businesses and generate more income. Brendan's company will offer lead gen and bookings for other studios and provide a money-back guarantee. We have a saying here. We either automate, delegate or eliminate. When we're having business meetings and trying to figure out how we can improve what we're doing, we always go back to automate delegate and eliminate. – Brendan Taylor What’s on Offer for Premium Members If you’re on the fence about becoming a premium member, join with the $1 trial today and get access to the FULL interviews each week, a fantastic back catalogue of interviews, and have ALL future interviews delivered automatically to your phone or tablet. Plus, special member-only interviews. Replying to reviews is very, very important. If somebody's going to leave you a review and take time out of their day to leave your review, you should take time out of yours to reply, to say, “Thank you very much.” – Brendan Taylor You'll also receive access to the members-only Secret Facebook Group, where you can connect with other Premium Members and interview guests to help, support and motivate you to take ideas you hear in each episode and put them into action. The group also has FB live video tutorials, role-play, and special live interviews. You will not find more friendly, motivated, caring and sharing photographers online. Seriously, that's not all. In addition to everything above, you'll get access to instructions on forming or joining a MasterMind Group with other premium members. These groups are super motivating, make you accountable, and build friendships with other pro photographers with motives similar to yours – to build a more successful photography business. 9- 11% open rate on emails is the average. It's 98% for text messages. So if you’re not using text messages, you should be. – Brendan Taylor What is your big takeaway? Following this interview, I’d love to know if you're taking anything from what Brendan shared. Is there something you heard that excited or motivated you to the point where you thought, yeah, I'm going to do that! If so, leave your thoughts in the comments below; let me know your takeaways and what you plan to implement in your business based on what you heard in today's episode. One of our beta testers in one month, in July, within their whole pool of text messages, email costings, spent $431.16…But this person also had a $45,000 sales month. So you need to understand the size of this business for them to spend that amount. They're a big business. – Brendan Taylor If you have any questions I missed, a specific question you’d like to ask Brendan, or a way to thank you for coming on the show, feel free to add them in the comments area below. REGISTER AND SAVE! Scaling with AI: Lead Generation, Pricing, SEO & Essential Tools. If you're tired of spending hours on social media to attract clients only to see minimal results. Or you're ready to break free from the content creation grind and focus on other things. Good news! Brianna's training will be a game-changer for you. All the details are here –>> ​ https://learn.photobizx.com/session-3-ai-marketing-for-photographers-registration/   Here's what you'll learn…      AI-Powered Lead Generation: Learn to identify your target audience with precision and create lead generation strategies that consistently deliver high-quality leads.      Data-Driven Pricing: Master the art of setting profitable prices based on market research, cost analysis, and your unique value proposition, so you're always paid what you're worth.      SEO Optimization with AI: Elevate your website's visibility and attract organic traffic by mastering AI-powered keyword research and content optimization strategies. Essential AI Tools for Photographers: Discover additional AI tools that can streamline your workflow, enhance your online presence, and boost your overall efficiency.   The live training is on Thursday, September 5th, 2024, at 7:00 a.m. Sydney local time. Your local time is here. Cost is $197 and doubles after the live training.  Early bird bonuses… $100 off any other existing PBX Course.   All the details are here: https://photobizx.com/ai3 The future of photography marketing is here. Master AI before it all gets too hard. iTunes Reviews and Shout-outs I check for any new iTunes or Google reviews each week, and it's always a buzz to receive these… for several reasons. Firstly, it's confirmation that I'm on the right track with the interviews and that they are helping you improve your photography business. That's awesome! Secondly, iTunes and Google are the most significant podcast search engines, and your reviews and ratings help other photographers find PhotoBizX. More listeners mean more interviews and, ultimately, a better show. If we've built something ourselves, then of course, we're not going to allow you to take our stuff out of the system and plug into another one. But any thing you've built yourself, you're more than welcome to take with you if you decide to leave. The plan is you won't leave because you'll love it so much. – Brendan Taylor If you have left a review in the past, thank you! If you haven't and you'd like to, head to https://photobizx.com/itunes or https://photobizx.com/google. You can leave some honest feedback and a rating, which will help both me and the show. I'll be sure to thank you on the show and add a link to your website or blog if you let me know the URL of your website and your name. Alternatively, if you've left a review for PhotoBizX and are looking for more backlinks to help your SEO, leave a review for the new Photography Xperiment Podcast. Email me your keywords or phrases and where you'd like me to link them. Problem is, if you don't follow up, well, if you don't know how to pose a sale, if you're sending out emails and text messages and not turning that into business, then it's a lot of money to be spending. But the whole point of The Tog Pod and what we've built inside it, and the follow up systems and the ongoing support that we're going to give you in our community as well, is you're going to be able to spend $431 a month sending 3000 SMSs and 260 calls and messages, because we're going to help you generate the leads and bookings to warrant spending that amount. – Brendan Taylor Another great way to get a backlink to your site is to send a video testimonial. It doesn't need to be fancy, and your phone will be perfect. Click record and tell me how PhotoBizX has impacted you and your photography business.​ Links to people, places and things mentioned in this episode: The Tog Pod The Tog Pod Features Baby Art Studio Episode 502: Brendan Taylor – Facebook lives as a killer lead generator and some hard truths about business Episode 557: Brendan Taylor – Photography business success all comes down to the follow up Episode 429: Elle Payne – When business and service become the motivator over great photography Go High Level Thank you! Thanks again for listening and for Brendan's candid answers to the all new CRM for photographers, TogPod and what we can look forward to with what sounds like an incredible piece of business operating software. We're not doing the Bronze, Silver, Gold thing. You can have everything from the moment you're getting it. We're not holding anything back. And if it doesn't cost us any money, we're not charging you anything for either, as in, we're not charging you to have 10,000 email addresses stored or to send 1000 emails. You can have unlimited emails. If you're a person doing a photography course and you're uploading videos and stuff, unlimited video hosting. – Brendan Taylor That’s it for me this week; I hope everything is going well for you in life and business! Thanks, and speak soon Andrew The post 580: Brendan Taylor – The TogPod CRM Revolution… The Future of Photography Business appeared first on Photography Business Xposed - Photography Podcast - how to build and market your portrait and wedding photography business.

Venus Michael, a Profit First professional and author of the book tailored for photographers, shares transformative financial strategies for photography businesses. She highlights the importance of focusing on bottom-line profits over top-line revenues. Venus discusses personalized financial advice, effective budgeting, and planning for both personal and business expenses. Listeners learn how to implement the Profit First methodology for sustainable growth, including the global applicability of specific bookkeeping systems and the mindset shift necessary for financial freedom.

Premium Members, click here to access this interview in the premium area Sam Hollis builds websites for photographers and is an SEO specialist who popped up on my radar when premium member Adrienne Angelo suggested I listen to an episode of the “Shoot To The Top” podcast, where the discussion was focussed on utilising Google Maps to generate leads for your photography business. Sam is the podcast co-host and runs a web design business with a difference—you pay for your website monthly with no upfront fees and no long-term commitment. If the website isn't working, you don't pay. In addition to sharing his expertise to help with your SEO, I'm keen to hear his take on the recent nightmares for photographers, mainly in the UK, who have had their Google Business Profile flagged by another photographer and subsequently taken down. In this interview, Sam shares how to generate photography leads with Google Maps and increase your overall search rankings. Here's some more of what we covered in the interview: Utilising Google Maps for generating photography leads. Most photographers are either well-organised or need serious help; few are in the middle. Assessing a website's SEO by analysing content, menus, and Google Analytics/Search Console data. Google Business profiles can rank well even if the website has poor SEO. Depending on the situation, Google Map results can take users to the website or a Google Business Profile. Google business profiles and their importance for photographers, with tips on optimising them. In urban areas, Google Business Profile can be a winner for photographers due to high population density. Google Business Profile may be less effective in rural areas due to a limited customer base. Using a virtual address for Google, which can be a co-working space or an address provided by an accountant. Using a relative's address in the UK as their business address on Google Maps, as per Google's rules for service areas. Photographers often list their home addresses on Google My Business without understanding the implications. Most photographers are not trying to game the system; they simply fill out the form without fully understanding the requirements. The process of trying to contact Google for assistance is slow and painful. Photographers should choose clear and descriptive names for their businesses to improve visibility. Reviews are crucial for moving up the rankings on Google Maps. Use all available space on your Google Business profile to provide information about your business. Encourage clients to use keywords and mention the area in their reviews. Using Google My Business to improve local SEO and attract more customers. Posts should be regularly added to the Google My Business profile to keep it active and relevant. Do not expect interaction on Google Business Profile posts, but they are useful in their own right. How to analyse competition by looking at reviews, products, and inertia to improve local SEO rankings. Long-term clients can leave reviews at intervals of more than six months without appearing suspicious. The importance of storytelling on photographers' websites. Emphasising the importance of storytelling in wedding photography, the presentation stresses the need to showcase the photographer's skills and techniques beyond photography. Sam suggests including text on a website's wedding page to provide context and details about the photographer's role in the wedding, including client testimonials. Optimising a photography website for SEO and user engagement. Sam suggests analysing website engagement metrics, such as time spent on pages, to identify areas for improvement. Recommending making call-to-actions more tempting by offering value, such as free tips or guides, to encourage visitors to take action. Family and wedding photography are on the homepage to appeal to both audiences, which is okay. Balancing the amount of copy and images on a photography website is crucial for engagement and conversion. Pop-ups and opt-in forms can be effective for photographers, but timing and relevance are important factors. Sam recommends creating specific wedding pages with relevant keywords to improve SEO and ranking. Internal linking and backlinks from other websites are important for SEO and should be prioritised after creating quality blog content. Using AI for content creation and potential penalties for over-reliance on AI. Suggestions for using AI as a writing aid, not a pure writing tool. Discussing the potential penalties for using AI to generate content that violates Google's rules. Sam provides valuable insights and tips for photographers looking to grow their businesses. I select to service an area because the rules on Google are that if you have a pin, you've got to have a permanent signage and people have to come and see you. Effectively, it's like a shop or an office where somebody's always there in office hours and they can come in while the area is more people don't come and see you, you provide services to people within that area. – Sam Hollis What’s on Offer for Premium Members If you’re on the fence about becoming a premium member, join with the $1 trial today and get access to the FULL interviews each week, a fantastic back catalogue of interviews, and have ALL future interviews delivered automatically to your phone or tablet. Plus, special member-only interviews. Then you want move up the rankings and there's quite a lot you can do. One of the most important is getting reviews. Lots of reviews and regularly. Keep getting them. It might be that you spent six months working hard got ton of reviews and then you stop that still isn't great if a year down the line all your reviews are a year old. – Sam Hollis You'll also receive access to the members-only Secret Facebook Group, where you can connect with other Premium Members and interview guests to help, support and motivate you to take ideas you hear in each episode and put them into action. The group also has FB live video tutorials, role-play, and special live interviews. You will not find more friendly, motivated, caring and sharing photographers online. Seriously, that's not all. In addition to everything above, you'll get access to instructions on forming or joining a MasterMind Group with other premium members. These groups are super motivating, make you accountable, and build friendships with other pro photographers with motives similar to yours – to build a more successful photography business. The only thing you have to be careful of is reciprocal links. So if you did the blog post, wrote about it and then she linked to your blog post, great. If you did the post and your post is also linking to her site and her sites linking to you, Google will go, “Hmmm, they’re just kind of scratching each other's backs,” and doesn't count it as powerfully as if she linked to you. – Sam Hollis What is your big takeaway? Following this interview, I’d love to know if you're taking anything from what Sam shared. Is there something you heard that excited or motivated you to the point where you thought, yeah, I'm going to do that! If so, leave your thoughts in the comments below; let me know your takeaways and what you plan to implement in your business based on what you heard in today's episode. Always link to the relevant page. Linking to your homepage usually is a bit confusing. If you're promoting something, make sure you've got a page about that very, very specific thing and send them to it. And you can also link within pages so it might be even an offer within your wedding's page and you can link to a specific location of the page. – Sam Hollis If you have any questions I missed, a specific question you’d like to ask Sam, or a way to thank you for coming on the show, feel free to add them in the comments area below. iTunes Reviews and Shout-outs I check for any new iTunes or Google reviews each week, and it's always a buzz to receive these… for several reasons. Firstly, it's confirmation that I'm on the right track with the interviews and that they are helping you improve your photography business. That's awesome! Secondly, iTunes and Google are the most significant podcast search engines, and your reviews and ratings help other photographers find PhotoBizX. More listeners mean more interviews and, ultimately, a better show. On Google Analytics, which you can plug into your website for free, you can literally see how long people are staying on your page and it gives you averages. But you know, if people are staying on for a minute or so that's pretty impressive. If people are staying on for 10 seconds, you've probably got a problem. So yeah, you can kind of look at how long have they stayed, so that's the first thing. And if they're staying for a short time, then what is there is not engaging or then they're just instantly not liking the look and they're leaving. So then that would be the first thing to work on. But if they were staying and they're still not clicking it means you're not offering them something they want. So you got to really look at your call to actions. – Sam Hollis If you have left a review in the past, thank you! If you haven't and you'd like to, head to https://photobizx.com/itunes or https://photobizx.com/google. You can leave some honest feedback and a rating, which will help both me and the show. I'll be sure to thank you on the show and add a link to your website or blog if you let me know the URL of your website and your name. Alternatively, if you've left a review for PhotoBizX and are looking for more backlinks to help your SEO, leave a review for the new Photography Xperiment Podcast. Email me your keywords or phrases and where you'd like me to link them. You've got to have a really clear story, really clear writing on your website that tells all of that story because that's what sets you apart. That's what makes it interesting. That's what people are engaging with. – Sam Hollis Another great way to get a backlink to your site is to send a video testimonial. It doesn't need to be fancy, and your phone will be perfect. Click record and tell me how PhotoBizX has impacted you and your photography business.​ Links to people, places and things mentioned in this episode: Website 4 Photographers Sam Hollis on LinkedIn Shoot to the Top Website Shoot to the Top Podcast on Spotify Shoot to the Top Podcast on Apple Using Google Maps to get leads – Shoot To The Top Podcast Thank you! Thanks again for listening and for Sam's candid thoughts, ideas, and experience in generating more photography leads by utilising Google maps effectively and learning how to rank more effectively for your specific search terms. In terms of photographers, it's really important to tell your story with words. So, I find lots of photographers think but their photographs are telling their story and telling what's going on. And to me they do that to some extent. But and other photographers will probably look at your pictures and see the technique and see the skills, but actually the general public won’t. – Sam Hollis That’s it for me this week; I hope everything is going well for you in life and business! Thanks, and speak soon Andrew The post 578: Sam Hollis – How to generate photography leads with Google Maps appeared first on Photography Business Xposed - Photography Podcast - how to build and market your portrait and wedding photography business.

Premium Members, click here to access this interview in the premium area D'Ann Boal of www.smittenandswoon.com is a phenomenal photographer — professional in every way. Beautifully lit family portraits with natural expressions that look to be so much fun to be a part of for her clients. She has a portfolio most photographers would swap theirs for. It's part of the reason she is a pro photo ambassador, leads photography retreats, is an instructor at Click Photo School, and a mentor at Click Community. She also has a Master’s degree in education and became a 5th-grade teacher but picked up a camera after her son was born and never looked back. I love that she shared with me that there have been countless struggles in her 13-year photography journey. She's lost memory cards, been yelled at by clients, charged too little and didn’t feel valued, given away too much and not been thanked, and taken bad pictures without a speck of good light… the list is endless. She also says and believes that if you value yourself, your success will snowball. In this interview, D'Ann shares how confident pricing and personal growth is the path to a $4900 average photography sale. Here's some more of what we covered in the interview: D'Ann shares her 13-year photography journey with struggles and successes. D'Ann pricing has grown over time as they prioritize their personal worth and family values. Emphasizing the importance of starting with high prices to create an abundance snowball effect, leading to better images and more clients. D'Ann believes there is a limit to how much she can charge. Her current average sale is $4,900, and she could potentially raise prices next year. D'Ann aims to balance work and family life by setting a yearly cap on sessions and prioritizing quality over quantity. D'Ann aims to balance client sessions (40/year) with personal life, teaching, and other revenue streams. Discussing imposter syndrome, revealing its impact on pricing and the experience she delivers to clients. D'Ann shares how she became more confident in her photography business but still strives to learn more. The importance of finding a consistent location for photography sessions. D'Ann shares personal insights on her photography journey, including embracing natural light and using off-camera flash when necessary. Prioritising the task of providing beautiful light for clients, even in cloudy or rainy conditions, and finding creative solutions when necessary. Having a unique style and in-person sales sessions are key to increasing profitability. Developing a unique voice and providing value throughout the client experience can lead to high profits. Delivering a great photo shoot experience, including personalized prompts and addressing client discomfort. D'Ann’s approach to delivering a great experience for clients, from the moment they arrive to the final image. The importance of personalisation and creating a memorable experience for clients. Using clients' names to make them feel seen and build rapport. Creating meaningful moments by having family members express love for each other. Suggesting prompts to clients to help them express their feelings and create personalized art, such as compliments or emotions. Using humour and empathy to put clients at ease during sales sessions. Decision makers present at the session result in higher sales. D'Ann explains how she approaches photography sales, starting with a slideshow and then asking clients to choose their favourites. Highlighting the value of packages, which include a 20×30 print, 8-10 8x10s, digital files, and a beautiful album. Using Pixellu Smart Albums for album design, pricing, and client options, showing 20-60 images per session. Using Pixellu Smart Albums to streamline the album design process and save time and money. D'Ann believes photographers must value themselves and their work more to be profitable. D'Ann sees a lack of bravery in pricing and selling as a major obstacle for photographers. How D'Ann's photography business gets booked 12-18 months in advance, with 20-30 sessions booked by December. Due to Colorado's golden landscape, D'Ann pushes summer and winter sessions instead of fall sessions. Balancing work and family life as a busy photographer, sacrificing hobbies and personal time. D'Ann shares her marketing strategy, which involves not doing sales or promotions but instead focusing on building a client base that values their art and is willing to wait for a session. Mentoring and teaching services to help other photographers improve their businesses and marketing strategies. Recommending Google ads for fast lead generation for photographers. D'Ann shares stories of mishaps and mistakes in her 13-year photography career. I've just always thought I want to charge what I feel like my time is worth and what it's worth to me to miss tucking my kids in or miss having dinner with my kids, miss having a sunset with my kids and my family. What is that worth to me and that is where I have put my baseline prices. – D'Ann Boal What’s on Offer for Premium Members If you’re on the fence about becoming a premium member, join with the $1 trial today and get access to the FULL interviews each week, a fantastic back catalogue of interviews, and have ALL future interviews delivered automatically to your phone or tablet. Plus, special member-only interviews. I never did promotions. I never did incentives. I never wanted to market that way. I did mini sessions maybe for two years and I realized those aren't the clients that are going to value me and that I can give a really high touch experience to so I dropped that. So part of my marketing strategy has been to not do sales, not do promotions. I want the people coming to me that really sought me out and were willing to wait and loved my art and weren't coming for some cheap freebie thing. – D'Ann Boal You'll also receive access to the members-only Secret Facebook Group, where you can connect with other Premium Members and interview guests to help, support and motivate you to take ideas you hear in each episode and put them into action. The group also has FB live video tutorials, role-play, and special live interviews. You will not find more friendly, motivated, caring and sharing photographers online. Seriously, that's not all. In addition to everything above, you'll get access to instructions on forming or joining a MasterMind Group with other premium members. These groups are super motivating, make you accountable, and build friendships with other pro photographers with motives similar to yours – to build a more successful photography business. Ensure that there is no ceiling on what a client can purchase. So I never have a package that includes all the digital or that includes all the images in the album, because I want to give my clients the opportunity to purchase more if they have the means and budget and they want to. – D'Ann Boal What is your big takeaway? Following this interview, I’d love to know if you're taking anything from what D'Ann shared. Is there something you heard that excited or motivated you to the point where you thought, yeah, I'm going to do that! If so, leave your thoughts in the comments below; let me know your takeaways and what you plan to implement in your business based on what you heard in today's episode. The underlying theme within all my work is gratitude. I'm so grateful for my business. I'm so grateful I get to do this. This is such a fun job. I'm so grateful I get to be profitable and then teach others. – D'Ann Boal If you have any questions I missed, a specific question you’d like to ask D'Ann, or a way to thank you for coming on the show, feel free to add them in the comments area below. iTunes Reviews and Shout-outs I check for any new iTunes or Google reviews each week, and it's always a buzz to receive these… for several reasons. Firstly, it's confirmation that I'm on the right track with the interviews and that they are helping you improve your photography business. That's awesome! Secondly, iTunes and Google are the most significant podcast search engines, and your reviews and ratings help other photographers find PhotoBizX. More listeners mean more interviews and, ultimately, a better show. I'm not so focused on a number. I'm focused on the quality of life that I have. – D'Ann Boal If you have left a review in the past, thank you! If you haven't and you'd like to, head to https://photobizx.com/itunes or https://photobizx.com/google. You can leave some honest feedback and a rating, which will help both me and the show. I'll be sure to thank you on the show and add a link to your website or blog if you let me know the URL of your website and your name. Alternatively, if you've left a review for PhotoBizX and are looking for more backlinks to help your SEO, leave a review for the new Photography Xperiment Podcast. Email me your keywords or phrases and where you'd like me to link them. The biggest business tip I have for being more profitable is having in person sales sessions. So if you've got your voice developed and your art is unique to yourself and clients seek it out, and you do in person sales sessions, and your prices are high, and you're giving a lot of value within like welcome guides, and the products you're selling and in every step of the experience the client has with you, your profits are going to be so high. – D'Ann Boal Another great way to get a backlink to your site is to send a video testimonial. It doesn't need to be fancy, and your phone will be perfect. Click record and tell me how PhotoBizX has impacted you and your photography business.​ Links to people, places and things mentioned in this episode: D'Ann Boal Website D'Ann Boal on Instagram D'Ann Boal on Facebook Pixellu SmartAlbums Profoto How the Stylish, Breakthrough Z f Can Change the Way You Take Pictures…and Why You’d Want To – Nikon article Featuring D'Ann Boal Romance, Light & Magic in Photographs with D’Ann Boal via Nikon Creators Episode 087: Sue Bryce – How to Make Real Money From Your Photography Business Right Now Thank you! Thanks again for listening and for D'Ann's candid thoughts, ideas, and experience on getting confident with higher than average pricing and personal photography growth has been the path to a $4900 average photography Sale The most powerful thing that a person can hear is someone saying their name. It makes them feel so seen. So I use their name right when I greet them. – D'Ann Boal That’s it for me this week; I hope everything is going well for you in life and business! Thanks, and speak soon Andrew The post 577: D’Ann Boal – Confident Pricing and Personal Growth is the Path to a $4900 Average Photography Sale appeared first on Photography Business Xposed - Photography Podcast - how to build and market your portrait and wedding photography business.

Richard Waine, a former finance professional turned successful headshot photographer, shares essential insights on mastering Google Business Profiles. He discusses the unethical practice of reporting competitors to boost one's own ranking, sparking controversy in the photography community. Waine emphasizes the importance of ethical online presence, offers strategies for optimizing visibility, and highlights the challenges of juggling business and family. He provides practical tips on enhancing online profiles and encourages respectful communication over deceitful tactics.

Premium Members, click here to access this interview in the premium area Ayla Quellhorst of www.aylaquellhorst.com is a retired U.S. Air Force Photojournalist. She comes from a blue-collar family that lived paycheck to paycheck but made her way through university to graduate with a degree in business administration. Her main studio shoots only boudoir photography and generates a revenue of $700,000 annually. Her husband opened his own boudoir studio this year, and they are projecting $100,000 in sales this first year. She and her husband work full-time in the business and employ a makeup artist and a product advisor—I wasn't entirely sure what that is, but we find out in the interview Ayla told me that she sees herself as a businessperson first and a photographer second. She has presented at Shutterfest in 2022, written multiple published posts on helping other photographers succeed and is passionate about seeing other photographers get profitable and make a terrific living through photography. In this interview, Ayla shares how her passion led to a simple recipe for a very profitable boudoir photography business. Here's some more of what we covered in the interview: Promoting body positivity and diversity in boudoir photography Clients value the experience over just edited photos Empowerment is key to Ayla Quellhorst's boudoir photography business Creating a welcoming studio experience with personalised conversations and taking notes Personal touch leads to positive word-of-mouth and increased business Using coded language and safe words for client safety during shoots Clear communication about roles on set, ensuring client comfort How Ayla’s background in photojournalism led her to boudoir photography Financed studio space with student loans, managing financial challenges How Ayla’s business income grew from $100,000 to $700,000 annually, and aiming for $1 million Diversified ventures include a family studio, fashion, and marketing companies Prioritising safety in suspension photography with liability releases and weight checks Aiming for $700,000 in revenue with 200-300 clients per year through unique Shibari photography Higher volume of leads due to market trends, with older clients more stable Happy with two clients/day, aiming for 3-4, ideally 8+ Lead list of 6000, tracking ad performance for 50-60 leads/2 weeks Strategies to book 3-4 clients every two weeks from the lead list Facebook leads higher than Instagram despite using both platforms Prefers lead ads, keeping clients on the platform with automated text follow-ups Uses landing pages for specific campaigns needing upfront information Finding success with personalised texts and video content Uses Go-High-Level system for marketing, focusing on personalised and strategic messaging Reveals service cost at the end of calls, typically $500, with most clients spending $3,000 Spends $30 for 6000 text blasts, filters clients based on various factors Strategies to avoid Facebook and Instagram ad restrictions with specific poses and client selection Changing flagged or denied photos in ads to comply with platform guidelines Why struggling photographers often lack a business mindset and focus What’s on Offer for Premium Members If you’re on the fence about becoming a premium member, join with the $1 trial today and get access to the FULL interviews each week, a fantastic back catalogue of interviews, and have ALL future interviews delivered automatically to your phone or tablet. Plus, special member-only interviews. I want people to love where they are right now, knowing that they can still make adjustments, they can still change things that they want to. – Ayla Quellhorst You'll also receive access to the members-only Secret Facebook Group, where you can connect with other Premium Members and interview guests to help, support and motivate you to take ideas you hear in each episode and put them into action. The group also has FB live video tutorials, role-play, and special live interviews. You will not find more friendly, motivated, caring and sharing photographers online. Seriously, that's not all. In addition to everything above, you'll get access to instructions on forming or joining a MasterMind Group with other premium members. These groups are super motivating, make you accountable, and build friendships with other pro photographers with motives similar to yours – to build a more successful photography business. What is your big takeaway? Following this interview, I’d love to know if you're taking anything from what Ayla shared. Is there something you heard that excited or motivated you to the point where you thought, yeah, I'm going to do that! If so, leave your thoughts in the comments below; let me know your takeaways and what you plan to implement in your business based on what you heard in today's episode. It's not my place to tell you that your body's not beautiful. I'm going to show you what I'm seeing and what I think is beautiful, and then you can tell me ‘yes’ or ‘no’. We have five base poses we use for all of our clients, and then I might tweak from there. But every client is shot the same way because we want them to see that they're beautiful how they are. And I'm not going to put that judgment on them in our studio. And I think our clients really appreciate that. – Ayla Quellhorst If you have any questions I missed or a specific question you’d like to ask Ayla, or if you want to say thanks for coming on the show, feel free to add them in the comments area below. iTunes Reviews and Shout-outs I check for any new iTunes or Google reviews each week, and it's always a buzz to receive these… for several reasons. Firstly, it's confirmation that I'm on the right track with the interviews and that they are helping you improve your photography business. That's awesome! Secondly, iTunes and Google are the most significant podcast search engines, and your reviews and ratings help other photographers find PhotoBizX. More listeners mean more interviews and, ultimately, a better show. My love is really with these women, and hearing their stories, and learning about them, and helping a lot of them, in a way, navigate some life challenges that they've faced. I've been through a lot, and so it not only I think are the shoots helping them, but it's also helps me, because I realized that like as women, a lot of us have been through similar things, and not even just women, because we photograph a lot of men now too, and we're finding men are actually more self conscious than the women we get in and so I think it's just really that that piece of empowerment, is really just what I gravitate to. – Ayla Quellhorst If you have left a review in the past, thank you! If you haven't and you'd like to, head to https://photobizx.com/itunes or https://photobizx.com/google. You can leave some honest feedback and a rating, which will help both me and the show. I'll be sure to thank you on the show and add a link to your website or blog if you let me know the URL of your website and your name. Alternatively, if you've left a review for PhotoBizX and are looking for more backlinks to help your SEO, leave a review for the new Photography Xperiment Podcast. Email me your keywords or phrases and where you'd like me to link them. Everything for us is very strategic, and we try to focus on like, the psychology of it. Like, the more yeses I can get before asking for a sale, the better. – Ayla Quellhorst Another great way to get a backlink to your site is to send a video testimonial. It doesn't need to be fancy, and your phone will be perfect. Click record and tell me how PhotoBizX has impacted you and your photography business.​ Links to people, places and things mentioned in this episode: Ayla Quellhorst Website Ayla Quellhorst on Facebook Ayla Quellhorst on Instagram Ayla Quellhorst on TikTok Ayla Quellhorst Shibari Photography Portfolio Thank you! Thanks again for listening and to Ayla for coming on and sharing her candid thoughts, ideas and experience on creating a successful and highly profitable boudoir photography business based on her passion and drive to have women feeling great about themselves. We've really made a point to have different body types and different color tones and like all the range of people in our studio, because we think it's important that everybody be able to have this experience. And we don't Photoshop like we don't use liquify on any of our clients. And I think that's really important too. – Ayla Quellhorst That’s it for me this week; I hope everything is going well for you in life and business! Thanks, and speak soon Andrew The post 575: Ayla Quellhorst – A simple recipe for a very profitable boudoir photography business appeared first on Photography Business Xposed - Photography Podcast - how to build and market your portrait and wedding photography business.

Premium Members, click here to access this interview in the premium area Katie Phillips of www.katiephillipsphotography.com.au was first interviewed only last year for episode 514. At that time, she shared what I thought was a killer marketing idea for family portrait photographers and how successful it had been for her – in the last two years. She booked a year of sessions the first time she did this and earned $75,000. The following year, it was bigger and better again. Then, we were chatting last month, and I learned she's booked months in advance again and is having some incredible sales, too. This is done through her Mummahood Project, which is based on a local photography exhibition featuring real families from her community. This is an absolute no-brainer idea as it has everything a working photographer could want: bookings from local families, the freedom to shoot in your style, terrific sales, acclaim in your community, and a real photography exhibition. Why every photographer isn't doing this is beyond me. In this interview, Katie shares how to use photography exhibitions as a lead generator and sales machine for photographers. Here's some more of what we covered in the interview: Katie Phillips' motherhood project booked a full year of sessions and earned over $75,000 in two years. The project received an amazing community response, making Katie a local celebrity. Business strategies include a free print offer and community-focused exhibitions. Katie uses questionnaires to gather insights on clients' motherhood experiences and photography values. Clients can get a free print and $200 credit for additional photos. Exhibition prints are available for display. Planning exhibitions involve community engagement and promotion. Katie plans to move the exhibition from International Women's Day to Mother's Day for inclusivity. Katie enjoys connecting people through exhibitions, supported by local politicians and media. Exhibition planning includes a 12-month lead time and advance space booking. Creative spaces can be used for shoots but require planning. Marketing targets mums, focusing on clarity and self-selection. Katie uses questionnaires to filter genuinely interested clients. She aims to exhibit 50 prints, one per family. Katie prefers phone calls for business, finding them easier despite her dyslexia and ADHD. Katie lets clients go if they can't afford services or aren't a good fit. Pricing and options are discussed after building rapport. Printing options start at $400, with average spending around $1,900. Portrait sessions are customized based on client preferences. The main draw for mums is family photography, not the exhibition. Involving partners in sessions can boost sales. Multi-generational images are prioritized in sessions. Katie creates a book with mums' stories and photos, sold at exhibitions for charity. Exhibition photos are displayed simply, allowing personal interpretation. Collaboration with families is key, allowing them to choose exhibition photos. Katie uses Shoot Proof to manage payment plans. Elevate training helped streamline business and increase confidence in pricing. Asana helps reduce overwhelm and improve mental health. The Elevate course encouraged self-awareness and confidence. Elevate participants made business changes with pride and confidence. Setting boundaries and prioritizing personal needs led to business adjustments. Katie found the confidence to say no to clients, balancing business and family. Future plans include a festival-like event with workshops and community activities. The event aims to showcase local businesses and artists and generate leads. Katie uses sign-up sheets at exhibitions for lead capture. Katie plans to expand the “motherhood” theme, focusing on mums first but open to celebrating dads. Katie Phillips Photography, Photography for Jemma Grisbrook – Mummahood Portrait Photography 2023 with Katie Phillips, captured at Cooma, 2022 and by Katie Phillips Photography What’s on Offer for Premium Members If you’re on the fence about becoming a premium member, join with the $1 trial today and get access to the FULL interviews each week, a fantastic back catalogue of interviews, and have ALL future interviews delivered automatically to your phone or tablet. Plus, special member-only interviews. I think it's really important to have that connection because I'm a mum, I'm talking to mums, we form a bond over those moments that we're on the phone. And I usually leave about 15 minutes for the phone call. But I'm going to have to revise that because the last two phone calls that I took was 45 minutes long, which is not great for efficiency, but you just start getting talking about kids. And, you know, I think I had my two year old roaring around in the background and profusely apologizing. And my client was laughing her head off, because she had her two year old roaring around in the background. So it was kind of like a really lovely moment where we could just be real with each other. And I think that really builds rapport and trust. – Katie Phillips You'll also receive access to the members-only Secret Facebook Group, where you can connect with other Premium Members and interview guests to help, support and motivate you to take ideas you hear in each episode and put them into action. The group also has FB live video tutorials, role-play, and special live interviews. You will not find more friendly, motivated, caring and sharing photographers online. Seriously, that's not all. I find it really difficult to keep track of text messages and messengers. And I just found it a lot easier if I talk to somebody. I can get the information straight away. We can have a conversation, then it's done. I'm not having to go backwards and forwards on Messenger. – Katie Phillips In addition to everything above, you'll get access to instructions on forming or joining a MasterMind Group with other premium members. These groups are super motivating, make you accountable, and build friendships with other pro photographers with motives similar to yours – to build a more successful photography business. Katie Phillips Photography, Photography for Cody Burton Family Portrait Photography 2023 with Katie Phillips, captured at Jindabyne, 2022 and by Katie Phillips Photography What is your big takeaway? Following this interview, I’d love to know if you're taking anything from what Katie shared. Is there something you heard that excited or motivated you to the point where you thought, yeah, I'm going to do that! If so, leave your thoughts in the comments below; let me know your takeaways and what you plan to implement in your business based on what you heard in today's episode. If I don't put those policies in place and those professional boundaries in place, I'm not only doing them a disservice, because that's, thinking poorly of them as well that they're not able to handle me saying ‘no', but it's also doing my family a disservice to because I'm not able to be there for them and for me. I deserve some time off too. – Katie Phillips If you have any questions I missed or a specific question you’d like to ask Katie, or if you want to say thanks for coming on the show, feel free to add them in the comments area below. Katie Phillips Photography, Photography for Annie Jeffries-Mithchell, Family Portrait Photography 2023 with Katie Phillips, captured at Cooma, 2022 and by Katie Phillips Photography iTunes Reviews and Shout-outs I check for any new iTunes or Google reviews each week, and it's always a buzz to receive these… for several reasons. Firstly, it's confirmation that I'm on the right track with the interviews and that they are helping you improve your photography business. That's awesome! Secondly, iTunes and Google are the most significant podcast search engines, and your reviews and ratings help other photographers find PhotoBizX. More listeners mean more interviews and, ultimately, a better show. I really try and work with them to make sure that the wall art is right for their home, but also right for their budget as well. And if it's not, well, then we work together to find a way through. – Katie Phillips If you have left a review in the past, thank you! If you haven't and you'd like to, head to https://photobizx.com/itunes or https://photobizx.com/google. You can leave some honest feedback and a rating, which will help both me and the show. I'll be sure to thank you on the show and add a link to your website or blog if you let me know the URL of your website and your name. Alternatively, if you've left a review for PhotoBizX and are looking for more backlinks to help your SEO, leave a review for the new Photography Xperiment Podcast. Email me your keywords or phrases and where you'd like me to link them. I'm really about community as well. So bringing people together is something that's really important to me and enabling those connections. So, yeah, it was a beautiful thing to do. – Katie Phillips Another great way to get a backlink to your site is to send a video testimonial. It doesn't need to be fancy, and your phone will be perfect. Click record and tell me how PhotoBizX has impacted you and your photography business.​ Family Portrait Photography, Photography for Kirri Willliams 2023 with Katie Phillips, captured at Cooma, 2022 and by Katie Phillips Photography Links to people, places and things mentioned in this episode: Katie Phillips Website Katie Phillips on Instagram Katie Phillips on Facebook Katie Phillips Email Episode 514: Katie Phillips – Photography exhibitions as a marketing strategy and much more Episode 545: Katie and Jez – How to elevate your photography business Katie and Jeremy – Elevate Business Intensive Katie Phillips Photography, Photography for Jayne #2 Family Portrait Photography 2023 with Katie Phillips, captured at Cooma, 2022 and by Katie Phillips Photography Thank you! Thanks again for listening, and thanks to Katie for coming back and sharing her thoughts, ideas, and experience in creating a long-term and successful marketing campaign based around creating a local photography exhibition. I'm absolutely and definitely scared of something falling through the cracks in my business. I'm very much a people pleaser. I don't want to ever disappoint somebody. So, Asana has helped me to streamline that and make sure that I can keep everything on track, and not lose what's going on and get completely overwhelmed. And it's also really good for my mental health too, because I don't have that fear sitting on my shoulders anymore. And I don't have that overwhelm anymore. So even with just that it was revolutionary. – Katie Phillips That’s it for me this week; I hope everything is going well for you in life and business! Thanks, and speak soon Andrew Episode Transcript Email Download New Tab 574: Katie Phillips – Photography exhibitions as a lead generator and sales machine for photographers     Andrew Hellmich: I first interviewed today's guest only last year for episode 514 and at that time, she shared what I thought was a killer marketing idea for family portrait photographers, and how successful it had been for her in the last two years. Now, the first time she did this, she was able to book out an entire year of sessions and bring in over $75,000 the following year, it was bigger and better again. And then last month, we were chatting, and I learned she's booked months in advance again and having some incredible sales as well. All this through her motherhood project, which is based around a local photography exhibition with real families from her community. And to me, this sounds like an absolute no brainer of an idea, as it has everything a working photographer could possibly want, bookings from local families, the freedom to shoot in your style, terrific sales, a claim in your local community, and a real photography exhibition. I mean, there's nothing not to love about this, and I'm unsure why every other photographer isn't doing this. It's totally beyond me. I'm talking about Katie Phillips, and I am rapt to have her back with us now. Katie, welcome. Katie Phillips: Hi. How are you? Great to be here? Andrew Hellmich: It's good to have you back. I mean, we chat occasionally, and it's always it feels like chatting to an old friend now, which is amazing. How do you feel about this Mummahood Project. I mean, is it, does it still surprise you? Or are you waiting for it to fizzle out? Katie Phillips: Honestly, I sort of have to pick my jaw up off the floor every time I put something out there about it, I just get inundated with people wanting to be a part of it. And this is gonna sound really, really funny, but when the exhibition was on in March. It was really beautiful. We had such an incredible response from the community to it. And I had, sorry, I'm laughing because it sounds so stupid this, it's so funny. I had people stopping me in the supermarket who I had no idea who they were, and they're like, "You're Katie, aren't you? I've seen your exhibition. It's fantastic. How do I be a part of that?" And it's just been really lovely. So I felt like a little bit of a celebrity there for a tiny split second. So it was very nice. Andrew Hellmich: That is nice. Who doesn't want to be recognized in the local community, that's pretty cool. Katie Phillips: The right things. Andrew Hellmich: True, true, true. Katie Phillips: Thanks so much! Andrew Hellmich: For anyone who hasn't heard the first interview from last year, can you give us, like a bit of a broad outline of how the project works? What is it? Katie Phillips: Absolutely. So, I guess for any photographer, it can be on anything you want. But for me, I'm really about uplifting mums and being a feminist and being a mum. I really want to provide a platform and a place for women, and particularly mums, to to be celebrated and seen. And so that's, that's the sort of niche that I've picked. But I mean, look, you could do it for cats, you could do it for dogs, you could do it for families. You could do it for dads. You could do it for whatever you want, car photography. And basically, what I do is I put together a post on Facebook, I then put it into the local groups so I don't spend anything on advertising. I literally put it on the notice boards, or whatever they're called. Yeah, the local notice boards and community groups, parent groups in my local area, and have a sign up page on my website that's linked to that particular post. People go in, they fill out a pretty lengthy questionnaire, which kind of provides a bit of vetting, and it includes, you know, questions like, what's your experience of motherhood? What's something that's been really challenging, what's something that's been really beautiful for you? Is there any advice you would give to your younger self? And it also has questions around whether they want to join my mailing list, and what sort of things they want to do with their photos afterwards, whether they're just interested in the free print, or if they want to put things on their wall, if they want digitals. So I get a bit of an idea of not only who they are and how their family operates and their experience of motherhood, but also how they value photography as well. And so once they feel that questionnaire in, I enter it all into my system. Well, actually, it's all automated because thank goodness for our CRMs. And once they do that, they go into my sort of my workflow, so they'll get sent out an invitation to book a call with me. And so from that call, I then get to chat to them, and it gives me the option to invite them in or to gently let them go, if that makes sense. So once I chat to them, and honestly, nine times out of 10, it's fabulous. And we book in a session there, and we start to sort of think about planning. I've got an incredible client closet as well. So I sort of talk about the dresses that I have available for the mums so that they feel like queens, and I send them through a style guide after the call. And I also, during the call, I talk about what happens after their session, which is the print meeting, because I'm an IPS photographer, so I want them to understand that, yes, they can walk away with their free print, which is included in the session, and they can either have their free print or they can swap it for a $200 credit to go towards some big wall art or something else that they want to create for their home. But it's not all for free, and so I really want to make it very transparent and clear that if they do want to walk away with their free print, totally fine, but if they want to do something more than just have one image, because they fall in love with them, and it's very hard to narrow it down to just one, then they will have to pay for it. And so once our meeting's done, we say goodbye, we've booked in our session time, and then I send them through all the information, so that's styling guide and print information contract and all that sort of stuff. And just sort of have these touch points leading up to their session. Then we have their session, and then after their session, we book in their IPs meeting, and then we go and do that, and they see their beautiful photos. We have a gorgeous slideshow that takes them through, and they sometimes cry, which is lovely. I always bring tea and biscuits, which is nice to have a bit of a party. And then we work out what they want to do with their photos. So if they just want the one, which they never just want the one, which is why I've brought in the credit so that they can swap their one photo print for a $200 credit instead. And so that sort of gives them the option to look at these beautiful artworks that are, you know, reasonably pricey, and go, "Well, I've got this credit, so that brings it down, and it makes them more affordable". And I have payment plans that they're able to utilize as well, so I want to make it as accessible and stress free as humanly possible. And yeah, so at that meeting, we'll look through and I use ProSelect to help them to create something beautiful for their home, or whether they want to do a photo album or a photo book or a series, or I've had clients do massive wall art things and just huge, big prints and stuff, so that's really lovely. Or they might want to do, like, a little series of, you know, different photos, and we can arrange that in ProSelect. If you guys use ProSelect, you know how fabulous it is. And then if they're on a payment plan, they pay that out, and once it's paid out, they get their prints, which is really fun. Andrew Hellmich: Okay, there's a ton to unpack there, but so I think one of the things you haven't mentioned is like, what's, well, first of all, there's an exhibition as well, you haven't mentioned that. So everyone that you photograph, they go into an exhibition?. Katie Phillips: They do, yes, sorry, totally forgot that part. So at our print meeting, we also pick the photo for the exhibition. So everything that they print, they'll get the digital copy of. So whether they want to take the exhibition print as well, they're able to do that. But yeah, we picked the exhibition print, and then that sort of goes into my archive, my little folder of prints that we've selected for the show. And we did have it on International Women's Day the last couple of years, but we're moving it to Mother's Day for next year, which will be really lovely. And so once that all rolls around, it's sort of, yeah, it's showtime. And so I have to get everything printed. And I use, the people that I print with, Atkins, they discuss with me, the frames that I use. But I use, like Ikea frames, they look perfectly fine for what I'm doing, but these beautiful, big prints. So I get the biggest frame that I can from Ikea, and I put these gorgeous prints in them. And yeah, we head round to the gallery and put them up. And the gallery here in Cooma is divine, like it's such a gorgeous space. So we have this really beautiful open showroom that we can put up all the photos in, and then once the exhibition's up, we have our opening celebration. That's usually sort of an afternoon tea sort of style thing. And last time, I had a band play and we had speeches, and people just sort of mingled and ate delicious food. And, it was really nice. So we got to really share in that celebration together. And I'm really about community as well. So bringing people together is something that's really important to me, and enabling those connections. So yeah, it was a beautiful thing to do, and everyone enjoy it too. We had our local politicians come around, our she's federal member, Kristy McBain came and had a look around, and we had the newspapers. So it's a really great opportunity to get that organic reach, because you know who's in an exhibition? You know, if you're in an exhibition, you're going to tell absolutely everybody, aren't you? Andrew Hellmich: For sure Katie Phillips: And you're going to bring as many people to that opening as you possibly can. So yeah, it's a really great way to get known. And the local paper covered it, and the radio covered it. So it was, it was really great way to be known. And then I also get the publicity of the gallery actually advertising it for me, which is another avenue of, you know, free advertising. Really great. Andrew Hellmich: It's so good. It's so good. So for the listener who hasn't done this, maybe they heard your first interview. Maybe they've just listened to you now and thought, "Okay, I'm sold. I want to do this. I want to try this in my local area". How much lead time would you say someone who hasn't done this needs to kick this off? Katie Phillips: It would really depend on the size of the exhibition. For what I'm doing now, I plan a full 12 months in advance, even more so, because we're moving it from March to Mother's Day, which I think is May next year. So if you're doing a small exhibition, I mean, you could probably get away with six months, but it really does take time to, you know, have that, not only just shoot the images that you want, but also to have that communication with your clients as well, and to help them to understand what's actually going to happen and to get the word out there as well. It does take time, but if you're only having a small show, well, then you could pull it together in less time, absolutely. Andrew Hellmich: Right. And so you, now in your business, are you looking for registrations for 2025 already? Katie Phillips: Yes, so I'm shooting 2025 now. Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, so because if I go to your website, you've still got some details about 2024 is that just because you just haven't updated that yet? Katie Phillips: Yes, that is purely a time thing, Andrew. Andrew Hellmich: Okay, just checking, just checking. Okay, so, so if I come to your website now, if I sign up now, I'm signing up for the 2025 exhibition, potentially. Katie Phillips: Yep, and I do have people sort of trickling in still, which is lovely, but also like, "Oh, whoops, I better turn off that lead magnet". So, yeah. Andrew Hellmich: All right, that makes sense. So if I want to do this for the very first time, so on the Central Coast, do I need to go and find somewhere to exhibit first? Or can I just start posting in groups or running ads, you know, if I want to follow what you're doing, posting in groups to try and find mothers and families to photograph. Or do I find that to find an exhibition space first? Katie Phillips: That's a really good question. Honestly, it would also depend on the style of exhibition you want to do. So if you wanted to do an outdoor exhibition, then you possibly wouldn't need to book a space in advance, like there's some beautiful parks out there. And if you, for example, got easels and had frames on easels or images on easels or hung in trees, you could absolutely just go out and shoot. And if you wanted to do an exhibition later on, then you could find a space that suits your needs. But if you did want to book an actual space, I would say you probably need to go and find your space first. Just you can understand how many people you need, how many families you need to fill that space. Because if you don't have enough, it's going to look very empty. Or if you have too many, it's going to affect sort of the size of printing that you might need to do. So it can be a bit of both, if that makes sense. If you want to do something a little bit outside the box and go for an unconventional exhibition space, you absolutely could just, you know, wing it. But if you want to plan it for an exhibition in a gallery, you would need to book ahead, because they also do their planning ahead as well. Andrew Hellmich: The first time you did this, I can't remember exactly what you said. Was it a community space, community hall, not a library. It was something like that, wasn't it? Katie Phillips: It was a friend's space. So friend who owned a cafe, and she had this beautiful space next door that had like a boutique in it, and the girl who ran the boutique moved out into a bigger space, and so it was an empty area for a while, next to this gorgeous cafe. And I just sort of rocked up one day and went, "Ah, what do you reckon about this?" And she went, "Go for it. No one's in there, so go and do it." Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So really, it can be anywhere that has enough space to show the photos that you want to display. Katie Phillips: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. It was looking like we might not be able to have the exhibition in the gallery the way we usually have it next year. And so we were actually looking at different spaces and looking at more of maybe an ephemeral sort of art show where we possibly get in touch with this beautiful local pub of ours that has a really nice area and beer garden, sort of have it as like a one night show, get a band in, and you know, maybe have some paint and sip sort of activities and speeches and, you know, stories from, you know, the trenches of motherhood and things like that. So we were actually looking at a different spaces if we couldn't get the gallery this time around. Andrew Hellmich: Right. I mean, you could be as creative and as imaginative as you like, you just need a space to show your work. Katie Phillips: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. We recently purchased my nan's property. She died a couple of years ago, and we're lucky enough to be able to buy it, and we live on a farm, and it's absolutely incredible. This paradise that she created. She's an avid gardener, and has the most spectacular garden, and we were actually looking at hosting it potentially here in the garden. That's where I'm speaking to you from. I've run away from my children and hiding out in that place, looking out the window at her beautiful garden. Andrew Hellmich: Unreal. Okay, so it could really be anywhere. There's not a reason to not go ahead, like you can find a space. Katie Phillips: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I remember being at art school, and we went to these incredible exhibitions for the Sydney Biennale, Triennale. I can't remember. It's like, every two years or three years, but, you know, we went to Cockatoo Island, and they had incredible artworks hung in, through the barracks, through there and Vivid in Sydney has it through Hyde Park, so it's really limited by your imagination. Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, okay, that's great. So there's not a reason not to go ahead, that is for sure. So when you start posting about this, it sounds like you're running a Facebook style ad to attract mums, but you're just not creating an ad. You're doing it inside groups. Katie Phillips: Yeah Andrew Hellmich: So what's the incentive for the mums? Yes, it's to get a photo. Yes, it's to get a free print. Are you talking about the, is it the Mummahood Project already there, you're having an exhibition. Katie Phillips: So the incentive for the mums is to have beautiful photos with their family and to be able to have at least one nice photo with them. And the hook is kind of it's one to give them the opportunity to share their story, but also to be in photos. Because mums are never, ever, ever in photos, ever, unless, like, a weird selfie, or, you know, the partner gets them. Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, but are you mentioning the exhibition then? Katie Phillips: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So it's kind of like I set it up as, kind of like a model call, in a way. So you have, you know, for example, off the top of my head, I think I had like, "Hi everybody, Mamahood 2025 is rolling around, and I'm looking for new families, new mamas. And if you'd like to sign up, this is what's included. So you've got your session, you've got your print or credit, you have inclusion in the motherhood exhibition and the opportunity to purchase further prints." Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so pretty simple, just like a Facebook ad. Katie Phillips: Yeah, absolutely, super simple. Like it's, yeah, I don't want to complicate things and I don't want to confuse either, so I really try and make sure that everything's really, really clear, and if they want to ask questions, well then they can, because they've got my details there as well. Andrew Hellmich: Got it okay? So everyone from those posts, in those groups and notice boards, or in Facebook, you're sending them then to your landing page, they answer questions, and then they get selected. So does everyone, I think you said you weed people out, is that when you start talking about pricing? Katie Phillips: Yes and no. So it kind of they're almost some self selected so if they don't select something other than the free print. So it's kind of like, in the questionnaire at the bottom there's, you know, what do you see yourself doing with your images? And then there's check boxes, and so they can check as many of those boxes as they want to, and if they've only checked "I just want a freebie", well, then they go to the bottom of the list. Andrew Hellmich: Sure, got it. Katie Phillips: I understand it's not for everybody. And also, like in this climate, there's a lot of pressure on families cost wise, so I don't want to ever feel like I'm pressuring anybody. So if they're just after a freebie, I also need to value my time, which is something I'm learning, and I don't want to waste either of our time. So some of them are self selected in that respect, and then some won't respond to the email that I then send them about booking a call with me, and then if we get on a call, it's kind of like those hoops that you jump through once they're on a call, you usually know that they're fairly committed, because they've done a lot of leg work to get there, and I've only had, I think, three out of the last lot who have come back and said, "Oh, look, we're just not in a financial position at the moment", which is great, and I really appreciate when they say that, because I rather hear it before we have their session than at the print meeting where they're going, "Oh, actually no", and we've already done all the work. Andrew Hellmich: Yes, yeah, that's the worst. So in your ad, for want of a better word, or your call out for mums, are you adding any scarcity in there? Are you saying something like, "Hey, there's only five spots left", or "I need 10 families, and that's it". Katie Phillips: Nope, none. Andrew Hellmich: No scarcity. Okay. Katie Phillips: No scarcity. No. I want to leave it open as well, so that if people want to be included, well then they can be. And the beauty of the space that we're in is that we can have more. So I've actually inquired this year to booking out the entire gallery. Andrew Hellmich: Well, because how many families or how many prints are you looking to exhibit? Katie Phillips: About 50, roughly. Andrew Hellmich: Right? And that's one print or one display image per family that you photograph. Katie Phillips: Yes Andrew Hellmich: Well, okay, so you're booking 50 sessions from this campaign, for want of the better word. Katie Phillips: Yeah, absolutely. Andrew Hellmich: Unreal. So you said something interesting there, Katie, that you know, you get on the phone and talk to every one of them. You know, this gets past the questionnaire stage. Now a lot of photographers, including listeners, find that clients don't want to get on the phone. They want to talk by text or messenger or DMS, usually text or even WhatsApp messages. Are you actually getting on the phone and talking to these people? Katie Phillips: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's really important to have that connection. Because I'm a mum, I'm talking to mums, we form a bond over those moments that we're on the phone. And I usually leave about 15 minutes for the phone call. But I'm going to have to revise that, because the last two phone calls that I took were 45 minutes long, which is not great for efficiency, but you know, you just start getting talking about kids. And, you know, I think I had my two year old roaring around in the background and profusely apologizing, and my client was laughing her head off because she had her two year old roaring around in the background. So it was kind of like really lovely moment where we could just be real with each other. And I think that really builds rapport and trust. Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. So when you put aside some time to make these calls, I know again, a lot of photographers, it's a numbers game. They've got to make so many calls, they get so many bookings, and a lot of them dread making those calls. Do you get those butterflies? Do you feel nervous before you pick up the phone and start making those calls? Katie Phillips: No, no, I'm bit of a chat bag, so I don't mind. I also really like talking to people, because I'm really bad at messaging. Like I said, I'm a mum, so I have two kids, and I also more than likely have undiagnosed ADHD. So I find it really difficult to keep track of text messages and messages, and I just find it a lot easier if I talk to somebody. I can get the information straight away. We can have a conversation, then it's done. I'm not having to go backwards and forwards on Messenger. And I'm also dyslexic, so that doesn't help either. So when people say, "Oh God, I hate getting on the phone", I'm like, "I'm the opposite. I would rather talk to you on the phone, then have to write you a message", because it just takes me so long, and I get confused and I get interrupted, and so I have half written messages from like, a week ago. I'll go back and go, "Oops. Well, that moment's passed." Andrew Hellmich: So a phone call works for you. I mean, it sounds like it comes naturally, especially if you're talking for 45 minutes, which is, yeah, again, not good for efficiency, but obviously shows the connection that you have. You said earlier, Katie, that you let some people go. And I'm guessing that happens on the phone call, if they identify themselves as not being able to be in it, or they're not in a position to afford you right now so they would naturally let themselves go. Do you actually have to let anyone go yourself? Do you have to say, "Listen, I don't think this is right for you?" Katie Phillips: It's never been I've never had to say it myself. But if we get to the point where we're talking about prints and costs and things like that, I have had one girl say, "Look, I just don't think this is for me", and that's totally fine, and I'd rather they be honest with me straight up. But it's also happened after I've sent through the rest of the information. So I'll send through a full price guide, because I just want to have everything up front. And yeah, they've written back and said, "Look, we're just not in the financial position at the moment. We've sort of had a look at our numbers, and we're just not there at the moment". It's never been a "Nah, hate your stuff. Don't want to do it". Andrew Hellmich: Right, okay. And you never had to say, "Listen, I don't think this is a good fit for you, or you're not right for the exhibition or my project." Katie Phillips: Not really, no. Because, like I said once, they've jumped through all of those hoops. You kind of know that they're committed, and because I've given them all the information up front, I'm fairly confident that they're going to, well, love my work because they've seen it already, because in the post they put on Facebook, I always put images up so they know what they're getting. And so yeah, there's not really any time where I've gone. "I don't think you're right". Andrew Hellmich: Right, so let's take one of the two recent 45 minute conversations that you had. Where in that timeline does the client first hear what they might spend, or what your pricing is, or what the families on average, spend? When does money come up in that 45 minute timeline. Katie Phillips: So when we start actually going through the process, so we sort of, we get on the phone and we'll start chatting about, I always ask about the kids, like, how, just like you would get on the phone with a friend, "How are you going? How's the week been? What you've been up to? What's going on? Aren't these sicknesses that are going around bananas?". "We just had gastro. How about you guys?". You know, all of those things that sort of bring them in line with you, and just having that really nice sort of opener where you're chatting like your friends, and then usually, you know, after, you know, several minutes or half an hour, I'll go, "Oh, I suppose I should probably talk about your photos. Would you like to be a part of the Mummahood Project? I would really love to have you on board". And that's when we sort of drop into business mode, and I'll walk them through the process, and walk them through the steps of "This is what we're going to do. I'm going to be with you every step of the way. We'll have your session. We'll organize all the details, and then we'll go away and I'll edit your beautiful photos, and then we'll come back together, and we'll have a print meeting. And at your print meeting, we can have a look at your beautiful photos, and I've got a slideshow. Bring your tissues, because usually people cry, just warning you now, and we can work out what you want to do with them", and then so from there I can, sort of, I bring in the pricing. So I say, "You can have your beautiful print, and that's totally, totally fine if you want to walk away with that. There's no obligation to purchase anything further. But I also have the option where you can swap that print for a $200 printing credit if you wanted to create something bigger and more beautiful for your home, and we'll do that together. And I've got frames that start at 400 and go up from there, and there's big, beautiful mural things that we can create together. And I have albums and photo books and loose prints", and I just sort of go through all of the options and give them starting prices, and then I tell them, "I'll send you through a full price guide after our conversation". And so they do get all the information, and everything is up front, so they can decide there. And that's when we sort of, yeah, get to talk about business. And I also mentioned that I have payment plans too, because I know people want to invest. People understand, if they've gone this far, they understand the value of photography. And I also explain that I am really about printing stuff, because what's the point of having these beautiful digital images if your children can't see you and them in them on walls? So that's where I really hammer home that we want to print these things. We want to have artwork in your home, because your kids need to see this. Andrew Hellmich: Yeah Katie Phillips: There's no other ones. Andrew Hellmich: What's the biggest number that they hear on that phone call with you? Is it your largest print? Is it what some family spend on average? Can you throw a number at me? **Sign up to listen to the Premium Version Andrew Hellmich: Yes, got it, okay. Again, super simple. I love how you're running your business. You don't have anything on your website about education or teaching other you're just a working mum who has a photography business. I asked you before we recorded, like, if someone wants help with this, would you consider helping them? Like, is that something you would consider? Katie Phillips: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I love teaching. And like I said to you before, I'm also an art therapist, so I I'm very familiar with running groups and facilitating stuff. So if anybody wants help, let me know. I'm an open book. Andrew Hellmich: Alright, so where should we go to see more of your Mummahood Project? See more of your work. See the photography. Where's the best place? Katie Phillips: I'm mostly active on Instagram, so my handle is @KatiePhillips_photography. And I mean, I think my Facebook, I'm so bad on Facebook, it's just another thing to have to do. I think it's Katie Takes Pics on Facebook. And my email address is hello@katiephillipsphotography.com.au, longest email in the world. I'm sorry. Andrew Hellmich: Look, I'll add links to all those in the show notes that's going to accompany the audio. You've been amazing again, Katie, it's been so good to chat to you across on the other side of the world, of all places, and it feels like we're sitting chatting like we are like we did last time back in Australia. So massive thanks for coming on and sharing everything you have. I can't wait to see more. I hope, I really do hope to get down and actually see the exhibition in person one of these days. So but again, massive, thanks for coming on. Katie Phillips: Oh my pleasure. Andrew, as always, thanks for having me. It's been an absolute treat. Andrew Hellmich: Thanks, Katie, thank you so much. I didn't ask you about Elevate. I'm curious about why did you sign up for that Elevate with Katie and Jez, when you already have a successful business? Katie Phillips: Honestly, because I needed help with efficiency and also with things like pricing and stuff. So since signing up with them, I've actually changed a heck of a lot within my business. So a lot of the stuff I did bring over, but they've helped me streamline things, and it's been unbelievable. Like Katie and Jez are just the most incredible people and teachers, like we had the most this amazing time, and I have made lifelong friends from that group. It was truly transformative, and I now am really confident, particularly with my pricing as well. Like one of the things that Katie and Jez really taught was, and I know I spoke about this before, was like valuing yourself and valuing myself. So I'm going to say my because I'm owning it. But it was, I've always been really worried about overcharging and being seen as really expensive. And that's cost me, because before, I was making a good profit, but Katie was horrified when I told her my cost of product, and she's like, "Absolutely not. No". So I revamped my price list so that it actually made me a more profitable business, but also didn't out-price myself. So I've brought in new products. That meant that I could have a tiered sort of system now where I have, you know, my classic frames, but then I have my deluxe products, which means I get to sell the things that I really love still, but I can price things at a point where it's not too expensive, but I'm still able to have a decent profit as well. And they, Katie taught us about Asana. Oh, my God, that thing has completely revolutionized my life. Like I mentioned.. Andrew Hellmich: How are you using Asana? Isn't that a massive, massive program?. Katie Phillips: It's huge, but it's free. I can't believe it. Andrew Hellmich: Right Katie Phillips: Yeah, well, I mean, it's free to a point, and if you want all the whistles, you have to pay for it. But what I'm using it for, it is a massive program, but it's really, really good for people who, and I know there was a lot of neurodivergent people in the group, and for us, it meant that we could not lose track of stuff. That's what I'm absolutely deathly scared of within my business, is that I something falls through the cracks. I'm very much a people pleaser. So that's one of my things that I don't want to ever disappoint somebody. So Asana has helped me to streamline that and make sure that I can keep everything on track and not lose what's going on and get completely overwhelmed. And it's also really good for my mental health too, because I don't have that fear sitting on my shoulders anymore, and I don't have that overwhelm anymore. So even with just that, it was revolutionary. Andrew Hellmich: Unreal. You never go to those things without coming away, you know, with the head spinning and your mind blown. And, of all people, Katie and Jez, yeah, what incredible operators. Katie Phillips: I know, and they just up the road for me. They're unbelievable. Andrew Hellmich: So good Katie Phillips: So good, yeah, I'm indebted to them. And that course, was just incredible. We had three and a half days of, what was it? nine till some, well, I mean, most nights we didn't get home until like 10 or 11o'clock afterwards and stuff. But it was just really amazing. And they went through absolutely everything, like policies, you know, how to run an office, how to set up a studio, how to run your numbers, how to do your price list, how to, we went on four shoots. Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, wow. Katie Phillips: Yeah, there were two groups, morning and night. So we went out to the NGA, and did a family out there. And then we went out to a beautiful reserve North Canberra, and it was fantastic. So we went through absolutely everything. Andrew Hellmich: So good. Well, hopefully they'll run it again next year. I haven't heard anything yet, but I'm sure they will be and I'll have to share this with listeners and get it out there. Katie Phillips: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I cannot speak highly enough of them and of the program, like the way they've set it up. It was just really user friendly. And then the Facebook group that we're all a part of now has been invaluable as well. So we, yeah, they've continued that support on which I know it takes time and stuff. Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, unreal. Katie Phillips: They're unreal. Andrew Hellmich: So good Katie Phillips: Wonderful people Andrew Hellmich: It's been great to catch up again. Katie, thank you for doing this. Katie Phillips: Oh, my pleasure. Andrew, it's so nice. Andrew Hellmich: Are you going to hide out there at your Nan's house a little while to be kid free for another half an hour? Or you're going to get straight back home? Katie Phillips: We're going to go home because I'm so cold. Fire's not lit, the sun's down, and my toes are starting to get very cold. Andrew Hellmich: All right, I'll let you go. I'm going to go get my cycling gear on and some breakfast, and then head out too. Andrew Hellmich: Hey, it's Andrew here back and you may not know that there is a bit of a Join Here where you're gonna guess now, because I'm telling you, but I'm back with Katie. Because the funny thing is, once we got off the interview, we said our goodbyes and pretty much immediately after we both sent emails to each other. Katie saying, "Oh my god, I forgot to say some more things about the Elevate training, or course, with Katie and Jez" and I went back and said, "Listen, I didn't ask you the one big thing I really wanted to know, and that is what you would do differently, or what you are doing differently with your Mummahood Project, after having done it a couple of times. You know, what are the changes you're going to make and you have made since starting it". So I've got Katie back. She's just put her kids down to sleep. I've got a rainy, wet day here in Gerona. So this is lined up perfectly for both of us. So Katie, I'm going to throw it to you first. What did you want to add about Katie and Jez's Elevate course that you didn't tell us in the initial recording. Katie Phillips: Ah, Andrew, that course, was absolutely mind blowing, and a huge, massive shout out to Katie and Jez, who are just the best people in the world. And also to the Elevate crew, we were foundational, and was just the most beautiful group of people that they brought together, and we shared so much in that space. What I really, really wanted to add was it wasn't just a business course, because what Katie and Jez allowed us to do and guided us to do was to really dig down into the whys of our business, and helped us to find what it really was we wanted to achieve, not just professionally, but in our lives, and how our businesses were going to help us to achieve that lifestyle that we really were striving for. So for me, that was really an incredible motivator in what I want to do with my business and how I want to shape it so that it fits my life, and it's serving me rather than the other way around, and me being beholden to my business all the time, and it actually working to help move my family forward as well, and us to reach our dreams, which was pretty incredible. We, I don't know how many people ended up in tears in that group, in a really beautiful way, because as we sort of tapped into these different goals and dreams, we came to understand ourselves better. And that was really beautiful, because I know that there was a lot of neuro spiciness in that room and in that space, and it was really beautiful how Katie and Jez were able to help us utilize our gifts in that space and really be proud of who we are, as creatives, as business people, and just as people in general. So I was really grateful to be given the opportunity to find that pride in myself and my work, and that's really strengthened me as a business person as well, because it gave me the strength to do things like change my price list really dramatically and make shifts in my business that I wouldn't necessarily make if I didn't have that understanding of myself, that confidence in who I am, and that understanding of what I want my business to do for me and for my family. Andrew Hellmich: What do you mean by that? Like, what you want your business to do for you? Like, what's something concrete that you thought, "Okay, I'm going to come away. I'm going to implement this in my business after having a tender Elevate". Katie Phillips: Yeah, absolutely. So, for example, I have most definitely undiagnosed ADHD, as I think I mentioned before, and so understanding that more as not necessarily a handicap, but just as something that I can work with and that I have a better understanding of. So using tools like Asana to help me plan things and help me track things. They gave us templates for managing our social media content and stuff like that. So I think, is that answering your question sort of.. Andrew Hellmich: Kind of, so, like when we did the initial interview, you know, you talked a lot about, you know, how you want to have the mums that you're photographing as part of your project shine, like that was a huge thing that was important to you. But this Elevate course, it sort of, it sounds like Katie and Jez said, "Hey, look, yeah, that's great, serve the mums. Create the work you want to create, but you still have to create a lifestyle for yourself if you want to do this long term". And you said, you know, one of the things was you were going to increase your prices, and you need to make adjustments in your business so that it serves you and your family. So does that mean you're going to come back and say, "I'm going to work four days a week instead of five days a week or seven days a week. I'm going to only shoot on Thursdays and Sundays and have the other days free." Like, did you come away and think, "Okay, I'm going to make these changes in the business after having talked to Katie and Jez. Katie Phillips: Yeah, absolutely. So one thing I did learn really concrete from them was the cancelation policies that they have. That was something that I really struggle with. I'm a famous people pleaser, so being able to have really firm policies around cancelations, and so, for example, recently, I had a client come to me and say, "I've had a tough week. The kids have been sick and we're all really tired. I need to reschedule our print meeting". And instead of going, "Yep, yep, yep, let's reschedule it for a time when I might be", you know, with the kids and I just put a movie on for them or something, or reschedule it later on, on another day, that then creates a bottleneck and pressure for my workflow. I said, "Well, actually, this doesn't work for me. How about we do a zoom meeting instead. I know it's got to be flexible for you. So would that work instead? And if not, well, then we'll find another way that works for both of us". Instead of me, putting myself in a position where I am not serving my family, as I should, because my family is going to come first before my business, obviously. So I did that terrified, hit send the email, cross my fingers, try not to cry when she came back and went “Absolutely, for sure. Let's do that. That sounds like a great option”. So that was something really concrete for me that I wouldn't have been able to do without finding my voice, essentially. And finding my confidence in that and being able to say, “No, that doesn't work for me”. Andrew Hellmich: And that is huge. I mean, that sounds to me, like you're running a business now, rather than just being a people pleaser. I mean, the business has to fit around you, your family and your lifestyle. And clients has to fit in a little bit with you, rather than them dictating all the terms, which is how it should be. Katie Phillips: Absolutely like you do not go to the shop after 5 o’clock and go “Ugh, well, that's no good. They should be open because I'm here and I'm ready to buy it”. You know, six o'clock at night. You don't go and chuck a tantrum out the front of the shops, do you? So why would my clients think any differently because I'm running a business. And if I don't put those policies in place, and those professional boundaries in place, well then I'm not only doing them a disservice, because that's, you know, thinking poorly of them as well that they're not able to handle me saying “No”, but it's also doing my family a disservice to because I'm not able to be there for them. Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah. Katie Phillips: And for me, I deserve some time off too. Andrew Hellmich: Yes,100%. You know what I'm laughing as you gave that analogy, because here in Gerona, the shops shut down for siesta. They're not open after lunch on Saturday. They're not open on Sunday at all. And where I am, you know, on the Central Coast, just north of Sydney, we were all saying here in our group, “We can get anything we want at any time of day. 24/7”. So it's a totally different perspective shift but we don't even question it. We just fit in and adapt. Like, that's the way these businesses run. And that's the way your clients now see you. And they say, “Well, Katie's got a family. She's got a life. Well, we'll have to fit in with her a little bit”. Katie Phillips: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And they're totally fine with it. So that's been a really big mindset shift for me that, “No, this is a business and it has to fit around my life. Because if I'm stressed, I'm not going to be one good business owner and able to perform at my best within my business. But I'm also going to be a pretty … mum and partner and friend to myself as well”. And that's important. Andrew Hellmich: I love that Katie Phillips: Because what's the point of… Andrew Hellmich: Exactly. I love it. I'm gonna add links to Elevate. And let's set a reminder for the listener when Katy and Jez run it again, I think they're going to I'm guessing they run it again in 2025. And I'll be in touch with them and make sure we talk about it. So, thanks for that. I want to ask you what I wanted to ask you and that is about The Mummahood Project because you shared all the strategy that the way you structure the whole thing, but I didn't ask because you know, we talked about Mummahood and your project last year. What are you doing differently this year? And what are you going to do differently next year, after what you've learned since doing this a couple of times already? Katie Phillips: That's a really, really good question. So this latest one, it was pretty well the same as the previous one, except I had a band, which was pretty awesome. And, you know, it's pretty much the same, thinking about it. But this next one, what I really want to do is create more of an event around it. So because I have that up for a full month, and the gallery space has workshop capacity. So people come in, and they run workshops in there all the time within the gallery space. And what I really would like to do is to create a bit of a festival around this exhibition. So I'll be running photography classes, and I'll be running art therapy groups and an art groups as well, being an art therapist. So I can sort of expanded into that and help other people find their creativity in that as well, which will be really, really fun. I've got some friends who are yoga instructors, as well. So I'll be getting in touch with them to see if they want to run some yoga workshops as well, and women's circles, and maybe paint and sip, and things like that just to really bring the community together and extend it into more of a festival of women, and mums, and kids. Andrew Hellmich: And so with these additional things, which do sound amazing, especially for your community, like if you're going to run camera or photography workshops, your art workshops, or they're going to be lead generating events for you as well. Are you looking to sell people into portrait sessions? Is there a business aspect? Or is it just a feel good, give back to the community aspect? Katie Phillips: Both, absolutely both. So, with the photography workshops, I'll be running promotions with them. So it might be like, you know, teach you how to use ,your iPhone or your mobile phone to take better pictures of your kids. But then at the end of that, there'll be a promotional aspect to that to bring in, you know, bookings for next time around or portrait sessions and things like that. There'll be competitions within that week. So whether it's, you know, raffles or whether it's, you know, the name and a jar sort of thing, it's a great opportunity to really bring in those lead generating face to face opportunities. So, there'll be heaps of that as well. And being able to bring in other businesses, we can really work together to create great prize packs, and promotional offers and stuff like that. So, I'm really excited to be able to expand it out so that it's not just the photography exhibition, but also an opportunity for us as a community to showcase what we can do. Andrew Hellmich: I like it, I like it. So just tying this back to the business side of things. When you ran the first two projects, and you're now, you're running, you're looking at the next one, have you had price increases? Are you targeting leads, or trying to get interest in the project by any other means? I know, you mentioned the Facebook groups, and you go and post in there, have you had price increases? Are you doing different things to get leads? Are all that staying the same? And it's fine if it is, I just want to be sure that I'm getting the best I can for the listener if they want to do this to? Katie Phillips: Absolutely, absolutely. So, at the actual exhibition, I have a sign-up sheet. So if you want to be involved next year, you can sign up at the actual gallery. So that's through a QR code that I stick on the wall, which is plastered in multiple places throughout the exhibition. So because the mums are bringing their friends, they're bringing their mums, they're bringing in people, bringing in leads, I want to capture them, when they're excited in the moment. And they go, “Oh, well, I'd like to be a part of this”. So they can sign up then and there. Andrew Hellmich: Do they pay anything at that point, or they just add their name to a list? Katie Phillips: They just go through the process of signing up. So they go to the registration page, and then they can register there. Those registration pages at the gallery aren't as extensive because I don't want people having to fill in too much detail in that moment. Because they might not do it, if they see a big long list of questions then might go “Oh, we'll do this later, and then forget so it's sort of a bit more of a snapshot capture them in that moment. Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Can past entrants, enter for the following year? Katie Phillips: They can do that, they can, and they have. Andrew Hellmich: They have, right. Katie Phillips: They have, yeah, absolutely. So I know that's kind of a cheeky thing, potentially. But I figured they're that excited to be a part of it again, and they want to invest again. Well then, why would I stand in the way, and motherhood as a theme, and as a journey, evolves, so, you know, a one mum, last time I did, she was a part of the mummahood, she had four kids living at home. And now she is expecting twin grandkids. So, you know, so changing, which is really beautiful. Andrew Hellmich: Nice, unreal. What I love is that it hasn't really changed that much like you've sort of nailed it the first time and just done little tiny tweaks. And it's still just continues to run beautifully. I mean, you could do this for the next 10,20 years, if you want to. Katie Phillips: Absolutely could. And that's what I would really love is to be able to give all mums an opportunity to be a part of it. So it's sort of something that can keep going, because you're never going to get everybody that first year and it's never going to get old. Because what I'm hoping is it's going to build as like a “Oh, this is, you know, the Mummahood exhibition is coming up again”, or it's this annual celebration. So that's why I sort of want to bring in other businesses as well and make it a bit more of a festival over the four weeks that the exhibition is actually up, so that we can have that longevity as well. Andrew Hellmich: Amazing. I mean, how cool to think that, you know, little old you, Dan and Kumar can start this potential festival in the area for moms. I mean, if someone says that to you, 10 years ago, you think “Are you crazy?”. And I would if it was me, I don't know if you feel the same way, but it must be an incredible feeling. Katie Phillips: Yeah, it is actually, it's really lovely. And the positive feedback that I've had, like I've only had a few. And a few people have said, “Well, what about the dads?”. Look, it's a very low bar for dads to get praise. I'm afraid so. But I'm gonna celebrate. Andrew Hellmich: That’s harsh, that's harsh. Katie Phillips: I know, I'm sorry. But it is because you think like, you know, you see a dad taking their kid to the park and everyone's gushing like “Oh, isn’t he such a good dad”. It's a very low bar that they got to cross and get over. So you know, pat on the back to you guys, but we're gonna celebrate mums here. Andrew Hellmich: Fair enough. Fair enough. Katie Phillips: If somebody else wants to do a “Dad's Day”, you know, exhibition, I will happily come and celebrate with you. But I'm going to stick to Mum’s. Andrew Hellmich: Fair enough. Katie, look, massive thanks for coming back and sharing those additional bits of information, super helpful. And I'll be following along and can't wait to hear how it goes for next season as well. Katie Phillips: Thanks, Andrew. It's been fun. I'm glad that we got to fit in this time again between bike riding and kids and everything else. Andrew Hellmich: Thanks, Katie. Katie Phillips: My pleasure. Scroll back to top Sign up to receive email updates Enter your name and email address below and I'll send you periodic updates about the podcast. powered by The post 574: Katie Phillips – Photography exhibitions as a lead generator and sales machine for photographers appeared first on Photography Business Xposed - Photography Podcast - how to build and market your portrait and wedding photography business.