
Resources Radio
Resources Radio is a weekly podcast by Resources for the Future. Each week we talk to leading experts about climate change, electricity, ecosystems, and more, making the latest research accessible to everyone.
Latest episodes

Jan 25, 2022 • 34min
California Crude: Seeking a Just Transition in the Golden State, with Kyle Meng
In this week’s episode, host Daniel Raimi talks with Kyle Meng, an associate professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara. Meng discusses California’s ongoing economic transition away from oil production and refining, the need for policies that reduce oil production and consumption across the state over the next couple decades, and the challenges involved in making related legislative progress. Meng describes the role of fossil fuels in local economies across counties in California and the importance of ensuring that those communities can participate, engage, and derive benefits in the transition to a new low-carbon economy. The conversation covers these types of questions: What will new policies mean for regions that depend on oil production and refining to support local economies? How might new policies be designed to benefit communities that experience disproportionate harm from oil and gas pollution?
References and recommendations:
“Enhancing equity while eliminating emissions in California’s supply of transportation fuels” by Olivier Deschenes, Ranjit Deshmukh, David Lea, Kyle Meng, Paige Weber, Tyler Cobian, Danae Hernandez Cortes, Ruiwen Lee, Christopher Malloy, Tracey Mangin, Measrainsey Meng, Madeline Oliver, Sandy Sum, Vincent Thivierge, Anagha Uppal, Tia Kordell, Michaela Clemence, Erin O’Reilly, and Amanda Kelley; https://zenodo.org/record/4707966#.YYq8J2DMLir
“Calvin and Hobbes” books; https://publishing.andrewsmcmeel.com/book/calvin-and-hobbes/
“The Years of Lyndon Johnson” by Robert Caro; https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/series/YLJ/the-years-of-lyndon-johnson

Jan 17, 2022 • 30min
Sunken Treasures? Rising Waters and Historic Preservation, with Rodney Rowland
In this week’s episode, host Kristin Hayes talks with Rodney Rowland, the director of facilities and environmental sustainability at Strawbery Banke Museum in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. As his job title indicates, one of Rowland’s main responsibilities at the museum is to focus on environmental sustainability. He’s helping to implement a proactive adaptation strategy for the facilities at Strawbery Banke, which is rich in history and uniquely tied to its physical location, as the nine-acre living-history museum contends with the risks posed by climate change. Rowland and Hayes discuss the perils of sea level rise in historic preservation, and how institutions that face this problem (ranging from the Smithsonian museum and research complex in Washington, DC; to the Maritime Museum in Jakarta, Indonesia; to Strawbery Banke in New Hampshire) are making plans to safeguard their treasures.
References and recommendations:
“Saving History with Sandbags: Climate Change Threatens the Smithsonian” by Christopher Flavelle; https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/25/climate/smithsonian-museum-flooding.html
Strawbery Banke Museum in Portsmouth, New Hampshire; https://www.strawberybanke.org/
“White Pine: American History and the Tree that Made a Nation” by Andrew Vietze; https://rowman.com/ISBN/9781493009077/White-Pine-American-History-and-the-Tree-that-Made-a-Nation

Jan 9, 2022 • 30min
Integrating Air Pollution Impacts into Climate Policy, with Lara Aleluia Reis
In this week’s episode, host Daniel Raimi talks with Lara Aleluia Reis, a scientist at our sister institution, the RFF-CMCC European Institute on Economics and the Environment. Reis and her coauthors have recently released a new study in “Lancet Planetary Health” about the connection between air pollution and climate change. The study explores how policymakers can most effectively accomplish two important goals at the same time: reducing air pollution, which contributes to millions of deaths per year, and achieving our long-term objectives in mitigating climate change.
References and recommendations:
“Internalising Health-Economic Impacts of Air Pollution into Climate Policy: a Global Modelling Study” by Lara Aleluia, Laurent Drouet, and Massimo Tavoni; https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(21)00259-X/fulltext
“The Invisible Killer: The Rising Global Threat of Air Pollution—and How We Can Fight Back” by Gary Fuller; https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/608009/the-invisible-killer-by-gary-fuller/
PurpleAir, a personal monitor for real-time air quality assessments; https://www2.purpleair.com/

Jan 3, 2022 • 35min
2021 Year in Review: Energy and Environmental Policy, with Jennifer Haverkamp and Sarah Ladislaw
In this episode, host Daniel Raimi talks with Jennifer Haverkamp, director of the Graham Sustainability Institute at the University of Michigan, and Sarah Ladislaw, managing director of the US Program at RMI. This week is our annual year-in-review episode, in which we talk about what happened during the past year and what we’ll be watching for in the year to come. Haverkamp and Ladislaw highlight the most significant developments in energy and environmental policy during 2021, identify some important issues that may have been overlooked, and give a sense of what they’ll be watching closely in 2022.
References and recommendations:
“Under a White Sky” by Elizabeth Kolbert; https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/617060/under-a-white-sky-by-elizabeth-kolbert/
“The Invention of Nature: Alexander Von Humboldt’s New World” by Andrea Wulf; https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/227866/the-invention-of-nature-by-andrea-wulf/
“Speed & Scale: An Action Plan for Solving Our Climate Crisis Now” by John Doerr; https://speedandscale.com/
“Where the Deer and the Antelope Play” by Nick Offerman; https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/536915/where-the-deer-and-the-antelope-play-by-nick-offerman/

Dec 26, 2021 • 37min
Big Dollars, Big Rewards? The Roles of Prizes in Driving Innovation, with Zorina Khan (Rebroadcast)
What’s a better strategy for incentivizing innovation: the existing patent system or flashy, high-dollar prizes? This year, Elon Musk (Person of the Year in 2021, according to “Time” magazine) inspired heated debate when he announced a $100-million prize for novel carbon removal technologies. Some environmentalists were enthusiastic, though Zorina Khan—a professor of economics at Bowdoin College and a research associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research—expressed skepticism in conversation with the “New York Times” and on an episode of “Resources Radio.”
In this rebroadcasted episode, host Kristin Hayes talks with Khan about her research on the history of offering prizes for innovation. Khan contends that such contests historically have benefited elite members of society and that patent systems more regularly produce transformative technologies. Reflecting on Musk’s carbon removal prize, Khan concludes that such a contest could generate more awareness of climate issues but is unlikely to dramatically shift strategies for reducing carbon emissions.
References and recommendations:
“Carbon Capture and Storage 101” from Resources for the Future; https://www.rff.org/publications/explainers/carbon-capture-and-storage-101/
“$100M prize for carbon removal” from XPRIZE Foundation and Elon Musk; https://www.xprize.org/prizes/elonmusk
“What’s Better, a Prize or a Patent?” by Peter Coy; https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/opinion/elon-musk-prize-patent.html
“Inventing Ideas: Patents, Prizes, and the Knowledge Economy” by B. Zorina Khan; https://global.oup.com/academic/product/inventing-ideas-9780190936082
“Democratization of Invention” by B. Zorina Khan; https://books.bowdoin.edu/book/the-democratization-of-invention-patents-and-copyrights-in-american-economic-development-1790-1920/
“Unlocking history through automated virtual unfolding of sealed documents imaged by X-ray microtomography” by Jana Dambrogio, Amanda Ghassaei, Daniel Starza Smith, Holly Jackson, Martin L. Demaine, Graham Davis, David Mills, Rebekah Ahrendt, Nadine Akkerman, David van der Linden, and Erik D. Demaine; https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21326-w

Dec 19, 2021 • 35min
Barriers and Solutions to Growing the Grid, with Paul Joskow
In this week’s episode, host Daniel Raimi talks with Paul Joskow, an economics professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a member of the President’s Council at Resources for the Future. Joskow has had a long and distinguished career that spans a wide range of energy and environmental topics. In his conversation with Raimi, Joskow discusses his new working paper about the challenges related to expanding the electricity grid. Growing the grid will be a critical component for achieving long-term decarbonization goals, but growth comes with a lot of hurdles. Joskow describes those hurdles, alongside what solutions might help knock them down.
References and recommendations:
“Facilitating Transmission Expansion to Support Efficient Decarbonization of the Electricity Sector” by Paul L. Joskow; http://ceepr.mit.edu/publications/working-papers/758
“Churchill: Walking with Destiny” by Andrew Roberts; https://www.andrew-roberts.net/books/churchill-walking-destiny/
“Franklin and Winston: An Intimate Portrait of an Epic Friendship” by Jon Meacham; https://www.jonmeacham.com/book/franklin-and-winston-an-intimate-portrait-of-an-epic-friendship/
Books by John le Carré; https://johnlecarre.com/
“Networks of Power: Electrification in Western Society, 1880–1930” by Thomas Parker Hughes; https://jhupbooks.press.jhu.edu/title/networks-power
“A French Village” television series; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Un_village_fran%C3%A7ais
“Come From Away” play; https://comefromaway.com/
“The Polio Crusade” documentary; https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/polio/

Dec 13, 2021 • 34min
Smarter Thermostats, Lower Bills, and Lower Emissions, with Casey Wichman
In this week’s episode, host Daniel Raimi talks with Casey Wichman, an assistant professor in the School of Economics at Georgia Tech and an RFF university fellow. Wichman and several coauthors recently published a working paper that uses a field experiment to estimate how smart thermostats and time-varying electricity pricing can help reduce household utility bills and demands on the power sector. As more and more of us install smart thermostats, Wichman discusses how much money these devices can help us save, how the devices affect the temperatures in our homes, and what smart thermostats might mean for the grid’s reliability and environmental impact.
References and recommendations:
“Smart Thermostats, Automation, and Time-Varying Prices” by Joshua Blonz, Karen Palmer, Casey Wichman, and Derek C. Wietelman; https://www.rff.org/publications/working-papers/smart-thermostats-automation-and-time-varying-prices/
“Savings Versus Comfort: How Smarter Thermostats Can Respond to Time-Varying Prices” by Karen Palmer; https://www.resources.org/common-resources/savings-versus-comfort-how-smarter-thermostats-can-respond-to-time-varying-prices/
“The New Climate War” by Michael E. Mann; https://www.publicaffairsbooks.com/titles/michael-e-mann/the-new-climate-war/9781541758223/
“Why Fish Don’t Exist” by Lulu Miller; https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Why-Fish-Dont-Exist/Lulu-Miller/9781501160349

Dec 6, 2021 • 33min
The Highs and Lows of Fracking in Rural America, with Colin Jerolmack
In this week’s episode, host Daniel Raimi talks with Colin Jerolmack, a professor of sociology and environmental studies at New York University. Jerolmack recently published “Up to Heaven and Down to Hell: Fracking, Freedom, and Community in an American Town”—a book that Raimi insists is one of the best on the shale revolution that’s been written to date. Jerolmack lived for several months in a rural Pennsylvania county that had been experiencing the shale revolution; he documented what residents experienced over a span of eight years. The result is a thoughtful, nuanced, and human portrait of how shale development has affected one community—for better and for worse.
References and recommendations:
“Up to Heaven and Down to Hell: Fracking, Freedom, and Community in an American Town” by Colin Jerolmack; https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691179032/up-to-heaven-and-down-to-hell
“Not in Your Backyard! Organizational Structure, Partisanship, and the Mobilization of Nonbeneficiary Constituents against “Fracking” in Illinois, 2013–2014” by Fedor A. Dokshin and Amanda Buday; https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2378023118783476
“They Couldn’t Drink Their Water. And Still, They Stayed Quiet.” by Colin Jerolmack; https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/17/opinion/sunday/fracking-pennsylvania-water-contamination.html
“This Is Chance! The Great Alaska Earthquake, Genie Chance, and the Shattered City She Held Together” by Jon Mooallem; https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/565952/this-is-chance-by-jon-mooallem/
“Scene on Radio” Season 5, “The Repair,” with hosts John Biewen and Amy Westervelt; https://www.sceneonradio.org/the-repair/

Nov 28, 2021 • 35min
Facing Fears and Imagining Innovation for Climate Change, with Kim Stanley Robinson
In this week’s episode, host Daniel Raimi talks with Kim Stanley Robinson, acclaimed author of many books, most recently “The Ministry for the Future.” Robinson’s books vividly illustrate some of the most devastating potential consequences of climate change, but that’s not all they do—the books also offer innovation and optimism, imagining the ways in which we can prevent some of the worst impacts of climate change and adapt to the impacts that are unavoidable. Robinson discusses his recent visit to COP 26 and his views on climate economics, modern monetary theory, space opera, and more.
References and recommendations:
“The Ministry for the Future” by Kim Stanley Robinson; https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/kim-stanley-robinson/the-ministry-for-the-future/9780316300162/
“The Price of Peace: Money, Democracy, and the Life of John Maynard Keynes” by Zachary D. Carter; https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/563378/the-price-of-peace-by-zachary-d-carter/
“Improving Discounting in the Social Cost of Carbon” by Brian Prest, William Pizer, and Richard Newell; https://www.resources.org/archives/improving-discounting-in-the-social-cost-of-carbon/
“Doughnut Economics: Seven Ways to Think Like a 21st-Century Economist” by Kate Raworth; https://www.chelseagreen.com/product/doughnut-economics-paperback/
The concept of “carbon currency” by Delton Chen; https://globalcarbonreward.org/carbon-currency/
“Hypothesis for a Risk Cost of Carbon: Revising the Externalities and Ethics of Climate Change” by Delton B. Chen, Joel van der Beek, and Jonathan Cloud; https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-03152-7_8
“Breaking Boundaries: The Science of Our Planet” by David Attenborough and Johan Rockström; https://www.netflix.com/title/81336476

Nov 22, 2021 • 34min
The Last Straw: Assessing Alternatives to Single-Use Plastics, with Shelie Miller
In this week’s episode, host Daniel Raimi talks with Shelie Miller, a professor at the University of Michigan’s School for Environment and Sustainability. Miller describes her recent research, which investigates whether reusable products like straws and coffee cups are really more sustainable than their single-use counterparts. In part because manufacturing these products and then keeping them clean over their lifetimes can be water intensive, Miller says that consumers need to reuse alternatives to plastics many times if they want to minimize their environmental impacts. Today’s episode is very much news-you-can-use when you’re trying to decide whether you should buy that reusable sandwich wrapper or straw, or take home that canvas bag from the latest conference you’ve attended.
References and recommendations:
“Environmental payback periods of reusable alternatives to single-use plastic kitchenware products” by Hannah Fetner and Shelie A. Miller; https://www.springerprofessional.de/en/environmental-payback-periods-of-reusable-alternatives-to-single/19334396
“Five Misperceptions Surrounding the Environmental Impacts of Single-Use Plastic” by Shelie A. Miller; https://css.umich.edu/sites/default/files/publication/CSS20-33.pdf
“Green Porno” with Isabella Rossellini; https://www.sundancetv.com/shows/green-porno--1001041