

The Fire These Times
Elia Ayoub
Where doom scrolling meets radical hope.
“The Fire These Times is a place where we tell our hardest truths, and find one another" - Naomi Klein.
Hosted by Elia Ayoub with co-hosts Dana El Kurd, Daniel Voskoboynik, israa' and other members of the From The Periphery Media Collective.
“The Fire These Times is a place where we tell our hardest truths, and find one another" - Naomi Klein.
Hosted by Elia Ayoub with co-hosts Dana El Kurd, Daniel Voskoboynik, israa' and other members of the From The Periphery Media Collective.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jun 12, 2021 • 1h 57min
78/ Pedagogies of Liberation, Gender and the Syrian Revolution (with Banah Ghadbian)
This is a conversation with Banah Ghadbian. She’s a Syrian activist whose dissertation “Ululating from the Underground: Syrian Women’s Protests, Performances, and Pedagogies under Siege” was the subject of our conversation. As usual, we ended up talking about a lot of other things as well.
Get early access + more perks at Patreon.com/firethesetimes
Blog: https://thefirethisti.me
You can follow on Twitter or Instagram @ firethesetimes too.
Topics Discussed:
Banah’s story growing up in a Syrian revolutionary family and being targeted by the regime as a result
The video that Banah released on YouTube in 2011, which the Syrian regime played on state tv
Her dissertation: Ululating from the Underground: Syrian Women’s Protests, Performances and Pedagogies under Siege (video summary)
“How do Syrian women and youth heal from violence? How can our communities be embodied when displaced from our lands and spirits?”
What is often missing from a lot of discourse regarding Syria?
The chronicles of Enab Baladi + An idea called Daraya
How does Banah think about the Syrian story and how it’s often misrepresented online?
What the Syrian revolution already achieved
Multiplicities and the entrenched ‘manliness’ of war analyses (reference to episode with Aida Hozic)
Undoing the diaspora/local binary
Pedagogies of liberation vs refugee/NGO industrial complex
Being friends with Hala Barakat, who was murdered in September of 2017 alongside her mother Orouba
Scarcity idea coming from an inherently capitalist logic
The Syrian revolution and anti-blackness; intersectionality
The misleading debates around ‘integration’, Alan Kurdi
Talking about sectarianism
Being in the dominant group at home, and in the minority in the diaspora
Recommended Books
Syria Speaks: Art and Culture from the Frontline Paperback – November 18, 2014 by Malu Halasa, Zaher Omareen by Nawara Mahfoud
Zaatardiva by Suheir Hammad
Homegirls and Handgrenades by Sonia Sanchez
Music by Tarabeat.

Jun 6, 2021 • 1h 45min
77/ From Hong Kong to Lebanon, Basebuilding Against Authoritarianism (with Promise Li)
This is a conversation with Promise Li. He’s a US-based member of the Lausan collective and the Democratic Socialists of America doing solidarity work with Hong Kong and China’s dissident movements.
Get early access + more perks at Patreon.com/firethesetimes
Blog: https://thefirethisti.me
You can follow on Twitter or Instagram @ firethesetimes too.
Topics Discussed:
Growing up in Hong Kong in the shadow of the Tiananmen Square massacre and after the UK-China handover
What is Lausan?
The difficulties of navigating online discourses on Hong Kong (and Lebanon, Syria etc)
Rooting ourselves in democracy
Translating Self-Determination
Hong Kong’s water revolution (context and history) and how the Chinese Communist Party crushed it, at least for now (the national security law, ongoing crackdown etc)
The globalization of the war on terror rhetoric and how ‘anti-imperialist’ governments and parties also use it.
How governments and politicians learn from one another (example of Gebran Bassil in Lebanon; Saudi and Palestinian ambassadors to China; Henri Kissinger praising the CCP and vice versa, Chinese cops praising American cops; Hezbollah in Syria)
What’s so different about the CCP’s oppression compared to other governments’ authoritarianism, and how western leftists don’t seem to quite grasp that (example of China and Syria)
How tankies and others try and think like Xi Jinping or Bashar Al-Assad (and always fail)
The multiplicity of places
Reacting to the camps in Xinjiang
Having a specific anger towards people who were oppressed in the past and who now oppress others (Israel, China)
Identifying as Hong Konger Chinese, the complicated identities of being both Jewish and Arab, the example of Hindutva and Indian Muslims
Being anti-nationalist and how that intersect in the global south
The importance of including migrant domestic workers in our struggles
Linking up Hong Kong with Black Lives Matters
Learning from Hong Kong’s Umbrella Movement
What BLM could look like in Lebanon
Fighting anti-Asian violence cannot include apologism for the Chinese state
Recommended Books:
China: The Revolution is Dead, Long Live the Revolution by The 70’s Collective
Punching out and other writings by Martin Glaberman, edited by Staughton Lynd
Beyond Survival: Strategies and Stories from the Transformative Justice Movement edited by Ejeris Dixon & Leah Lakshmi Piepzna-Samarasinha

May 30, 2021 • 1h 53min
76/ Confronting Antisemitism on the Left: Anti-Authoritarian Perspectives (with Daniel Randall)
This is a conversation with Daniel Randall. He’s a London-based railway worker and workplace representative for the National Union of Rail, Maritime, and Transport Workers and a member of the Alliance for Workers’ Liberty.
We spoke about antisemitism on the Left as Daniel has an upcoming book on this very topic.
Get early access + more perks at Patreon.com/firethesetimes
Blog: https://thefirethisti.me
You can follow on Twitter or Instagram @ firethesetimes too.
Topics Discussed:
What is left antisemitism?
The ‘socialism of fools’
The difference between antisemitism and other forms of hatred
The impact of Moishe Postone in our understanding of this topic
Antisemitism as conspiracy theory in and of itself
How it impacts discourse on Israel-Palestine
The specific legacy of Stalinism on anti-Zionism
Anti-Zionism without Anti-Semitism
‘Anti-Zionist Zionism’
Isaac Deutscher’s lifeboat metaphor for Israel in the 1940s
Understanding how one can be both a refugee and a settler
What’s wrong with saying ‘the Zionist entity’
Edward Said’s view on this
The example of Hindutva
The example of Lebanon
The pseudo-emancipatory character of antisemitism
Intersection between anti-semitism and islamophobia (‘great replacement’ conspiracy theory)
How Antisemitism Animates White Nationalism (reference to the essay by Erik Ward)
What happened in the UK Labor Party
Navigating sensitive discourses surrounding Israel-Palestine
On anti-nationalism
Recommended Books
That’s Funny, You Don’t Look Antisemitic: Antiracist Analysis of Left Antisemitism Paperback by Steve Cohen
Confronting Anti-Semitism in the 21st Century edited by Shane Burley
Confronting antisemitism on the Left: arguments for socialists by Daniel Randall (forthcoming)
Music by Tarabeat.

May 23, 2021 • 1h 8min
75/ The Precariatized Mind and the Case for a Basic Income for All (with Guy Standing)
This is a conversation with Guy Standing, a Professorial Research Associate at SOAS University of London and a founding member and honorary co-president of the Basic Income Earth Network (BIEN), a non-governmental organisation that promotes a basic income for all.
Get early access + more perks at Patreon.com/firethesetimes
Blog: https://thefirethisti.me
You can follow on Twitter or Instagram @ firethesetimes too.
Topics Discussed:
What is Universal Basic Income (UBI)/ Basic Income
Why it’s so important that basic income be unconditional
Towards a new class system: Precariat, Salariat, Proficients, Oligarchs, Plutocracy, Working Class, Lumpen Underclass etc
What is the precariatized mind?
Types of Precariats: Atavists who look to the past/Nostalgics: The migrants, the roamers, the refugees, the minorities/Progressives
Towards a new politics of time
How the global COVID-19 pandemic makes the case for a basic income
Recommended Books
The Human Condition by Hannah Arendt
The Great Transformation: The Political and Economic Origins of Our Time by Karl Polanyi
The Magna Carta Manifesto: Liberties and Commons for All by Peter Linebaugh
Music by Tarabeat.

May 21, 2021 • 1h 18min
Special Episode: Palestine and Global Solidarity
This is a special episode with Sumaya Awad and Shireen Akram-Boshar. Sumaya's the co-editor of the book "Palestine: A Socialist Introduction" which Shireen contributed to.
Get early access + more perks at Patreon.com/firethesetimes
Blog: https://thefirethisti.me
You can follow on Twitter or Instagram @ firethesetimes too.
Topics Discussed:
Our relationship to Palestine
What triggered the recent brutalities and broader context
Connecting protests in Israel-Palestine with protests in the US (Black Lives Matter especially) and globally (Arab Spring, Syrian revolution etc)
Israel's ethnic cleansing projects
The youth-led resistance
Shifting narratives on Zionism and Israel in the USA
Reviving BDS
What progressives need to be paying attention to
Books Recommended:
Shireen:
Freedom Is a Constant Struggle: Ferguson, Palestine, and the Foundations of a Movement Paperback by Angela Davis
The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein
Islamophobia and the Politics of Empire by Deepa Kumar
A Woman in the Crossfire: Diaries of the Syrian Revolution by Samar Yazbeck
Sumaya:
The Ministry of Utmost Happiness by Arundhati Roy
Smiley's People by John le Carré
Movies:
Qafr Kassem by Borhan Alaouié
The Feeling of Being Watched by Assia Boundaoui

May 19, 2021 • 11min
Intervention: Majed Abusalama #GazaUnderAttack
As he was talking to me Majed Abusalama's family was being threatened with airstrikes by the Israeli state.
Video interview available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE7il3GJRNI
Follow: We Are Not Numbers https://wearenotnumbers.org

May 18, 2021 • 1h 11min
[Repost]: Wretched of the Earth: Thoughts on Syria, Palestine and Discourse
In light of what's been happening in Palestine I am re-releasing my conversation with Mohammed Sulaiman from last year.
Mohammed is a Palestinian writer and researcher who grew up in Gaza and currently works at the University of South Australia.
The core of our conversation was Mohammed’s two essays for Hummus For Thought:
Wretched of the Earth: Thoughts on Syria, Palestine and Discourse (2016)
Israel and ‘The Right to Maim’ (2017)
Topics discussed: growing up in Gaza and surviving the Israeli wars and blockade; his and his partner’s difficult journey to Australia, himself via Israel and herself via Egypt; the Western Left’s failures on Syria and Bosnia as well as its relationship to Palestine; the dehumanisation of Palestinians and Syrians; Israel’s politics of domination; Israel’s ‘right to maim’ as inherent to colonial logic through Jasbir Puar’s work; and Palestinians being asked to show gratitude by self-appointed ‘saviors’.
Get early access + more perks at Patreon.com/firethesetimes
Blog: https://thefirethisti.me
You can follow on Twitter or Instagram @ firethesetimes too.

May 16, 2021 • 2h 20min
Special Episode: A Conversation on Israel-Palestine, (Anti)Zionism and International Solidarity
A conversation with my good friend Maya Schkolne on (anti)Zionism and international solidarity. Also: having multiple identities, Jewish supremacists in Israel, erasing the Nakba, apartheid (South Africa/Israel), and more.
Get early access + more perks at Patreon.com/firethesetimes
Blog: https://thefirethisti.me
You can follow on Twitter or Instagram @ firethesetimes too.
List of resources:
Jehad Abusalim's thread
Gaza march leader to conscientious objectors: ‘Turn your words into weapons’
Reclaiming The PLO, Re-Engaging Youth
The Holocaust and the Nakba: A New Grammar of Trauma and History
The Kahanist revenge song of a few days ago
Revolutionary Yiddishland: A History of Jewish Radicalism
Returning to Haifa by Ghassan Kanafani
Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi
Twitter list of Palestinian writers, activists etc
Sources for Updates, Resources, Info on Israel and Palestine
Palestine will not be liberated in isolation: a look back at the 2011 uprisings

May 9, 2021 • 1h 32min
74/ The Political Economy of Car Dependence: Understanding Systems of Provision (with Giulio Mattioli & Julia Steinberger)
This is a conversation with Giulio Mattioli and Julia Steinberger about their article ‘the political economy of car dependence: A systems of provision approach‘ published in the ‘Energy Research & Social Science‘ journal. We also discussed the topics below.
Get early access + more perks at Patreon.com/firethesetimes
Blog: https://thefirethisti.me
You can follow on Twitter or Instagram @ firethesetimes too.
Topics Discussed:
The five key elements of what we’re calling the ‘car-dependent transport system’: i) the automotive industry; ii) the provision of car infrastructure; iii) the political economy of urban sprawl; iv) the provision of public transport; v) cultures of car consumption
The problem with focusing too much on consumption and the importance of covering the production side
How where we live can influence our politics, and how suburban car-oriented lifestyles are actually subsidized by the state
The importance of network planning
Looking for decoupling and finding degrowth instead
The problem with ‘sustainable’ growth
How the car industry shows the necessity of degrowth
Why more equitable societies are easier to decarbonize
The problem with the argument that personal choices do not matter
Dealing with climate anxiety through activism, work, research, learning
How come we knew so much and did so little?
Working with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
What is ecologial economics?
Recommended Books
Spillover: Animal Infections and the Next Human Pandemic by David Quammen
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
Decolonising the Mind: the Politics of Language in African Literature by Ngũgĩ wa Thiong’o
Less is More: How Degrowth Will Save The World by Jason Hickel
Degrowth / Postwachstum zur Einführung by Matthias Schmelzer and Andrea Vetter
Doughnut Economics: Seven Ways to Think Like a 21st-Century Economist by Kate Raworth
Music by Tarabeat.
Photo by Denys Nevozhai on Unsplash

May 2, 2021 • 1h 32min
73/ 1958: Re-imagining a Revolutionary Year in Revolutionary Times (with Jeffrey Karam)
This is a conversation with Jeffrey Karam. He’s Assistant Professor of Political Science at the Lebanese American University and an associate at Harvard’s Middle East Initiative.
He’s also the editor of the book “The Middle East in 1958: Reimagining a Revolutionary Year“, the topic of our conversation.
Get early access + more perks at Patreon.com/firethesetimes
Blog: https://thefirethisti.me
You can follow on Twitter or Instagram @ firethesetimes too.
Topics Discussed:
What was so special about 1958? Its legacy in the Middle East and the world
The formation of the short-lived United Arab Republic (between Egypt and Syria), the Iraq revolution, the attempted coup in Jordan, the slide towards more authoritarianism in Iran, the clash between the princes in Saudi Arabia, the collapse of the fourth republic in France etc
The internationalization of the region and the role of the great powers (US, UK, France, USSR)
History as non-linear, connecting different threads
Authoritarianism in the region and the role of the big powers
Asking ‘what ifs’ in thinking about history
1957 in Lebanon (the rigged elections with US support) and the 1958 events
A look into the debates on decolonization, revolutionary nationalism, internationalism, post-colonialism, imperialism, anti-imperialism and state formation
Lessons from 1958 for the present day, the example of Iraq
How hope is linked to the understanding of time
Upcoming book: The Lebanon Uprising of 2019: Voices from the Revolution, co-edited with Rima Majed
Learning about revolutions in revolutionary times
Book recommendations
Coups and Revolutions: Mass Mobilization, the Egyptian Military, and the United States from Mubarak to Sisi by Amy Austin Holmes
Oilcraft: The Myths of Scarcity and Security That Haunt U.S. Energy Policy by Robert Vitalis
The Politics of Art Dissent and Cultural Diplomacy in Lebanon, Palestine, and Jordan by Hanan Toukan
The Paranoid Style in American Diplomacy Oil and Arab Nationalism in Iraq by Brandon Wolfe-Hunnicutt
Winning Lebanon: Youth Politics, Populism, and the Production of Sectarian Violence, 1920–1958 by Dylan Baum
Banking on the State The Financial Foundations of Lebanon by Hicham Safieddine
Resources mentioned/that are relevant
07. Denying Genocide, from Halabja to Ghouta with Sabrina Azad
14. Revolution, disenchantment and the Lebanese New Left with Fadi Bardawil


