

The Fire These Times
Elia Ayoub
The Fire These Times is a podcast by Lebanese writer and researcher Elia Ayoub and friends connecting academics, writers, artists and activists from around the world to “build the new in the shell of the old.”
It is a part of the From The Periphery Media Collective. To support: https://www.patreon.com/fromtheperiphery
It is a part of the From The Periphery Media Collective. To support: https://www.patreon.com/fromtheperiphery
Episodes
Mentioned books

May 2, 2021 • 1h 32min
73/ 1958: Re-imagining a Revolutionary Year in Revolutionary Times (with Jeffrey Karam)
This is a conversation with Jeffrey Karam. He’s Assistant Professor of Political Science at the Lebanese American University and an associate at Harvard’s Middle East Initiative.
He’s also the editor of the book “The Middle East in 1958: Reimagining a Revolutionary Year“, the topic of our conversation.
Get early access + more perks at Patreon.com/firethesetimes
Blog: https://thefirethisti.me
You can follow on Twitter or Instagram @ firethesetimes too.
Topics Discussed:
What was so special about 1958? Its legacy in the Middle East and the world
The formation of the short-lived United Arab Republic (between Egypt and Syria), the Iraq revolution, the attempted coup in Jordan, the slide towards more authoritarianism in Iran, the clash between the princes in Saudi Arabia, the collapse of the fourth republic in France etc
The internationalization of the region and the role of the great powers (US, UK, France, USSR)
History as non-linear, connecting different threads
Authoritarianism in the region and the role of the big powers
Asking ‘what ifs’ in thinking about history
1957 in Lebanon (the rigged elections with US support) and the 1958 events
A look into the debates on decolonization, revolutionary nationalism, internationalism, post-colonialism, imperialism, anti-imperialism and state formation
Lessons from 1958 for the present day, the example of Iraq
How hope is linked to the understanding of time
Upcoming book: The Lebanon Uprising of 2019: Voices from the Revolution, co-edited with Rima Majed
Learning about revolutions in revolutionary times
Book recommendations
Coups and Revolutions: Mass Mobilization, the Egyptian Military, and the United States from Mubarak to Sisi by Amy Austin Holmes
Oilcraft: The Myths of Scarcity and Security That Haunt U.S. Energy Policy by Robert Vitalis
The Politics of Art Dissent and Cultural Diplomacy in Lebanon, Palestine, and Jordan by Hanan Toukan
The Paranoid Style in American Diplomacy Oil and Arab Nationalism in Iraq by Brandon Wolfe-Hunnicutt
Winning Lebanon: Youth Politics, Populism, and the Production of Sectarian Violence, 1920–1958 by Dylan Baum
Banking on the State The Financial Foundations of Lebanon by Hicham Safieddine
Resources mentioned/that are relevant
07. Denying Genocide, from Halabja to Ghouta with Sabrina Azad
14. Revolution, disenchantment and the Lebanese New Left with Fadi Bardawil

Apr 25, 2021 • 1h 52min
72/ The Inherent Toxicity of France’s ‘Islamo-Leftism’ Obsession (with Rim-Sarah Alouane)
This is a conversation with Rim-Sarah Alouane. She’s a French legal academic, commentator, and PhD candidate in law researching religious freedom, human rights, and civil liberties in France, Europe & North America.
We spoke about a recent piece she wrote entitled ‘A Spectre in France’s Public Debate: Islamo-Leftism‘ for Reset Dialogues.
Get early access + more perks at Patreon.com/firethesetimes
Blog: https://thefirethisti.me
You can follow on Twitter or Instagram @ firethesetimes too.
Topics Discussed
What the fuck is ‘Islamo-leftism’
How fringe conspiracy theories are being mainstreamed in France
The role of anti-American sentiments in propagating these phenomena
Understanding the specificity of French laicité/secularism
The youth being more comfortable with multi-culturalism, which is provoking a conservative backlash
The slippery slope of what’s being normalized (including security laws)
The links between antisemitism and islamophobia, in terms of political rhetoric especially
The legacy of colonial thinking
The personal cost of rising authoritarianism in France
Recommended Books
Islam, Secularism, and Liberal Democracy: Toward a Democratic Theory for Muslim Societies by Nader Hashemi
Illégitimes by Nesrine Slaoui
Les Incasables by Rachid Zerrouki
Episodes mentioned:
67/ Cultural Dementia: How the West Lost Its History and Risks Losing Everything Else (with David Andress)
69/ The Entrenched “Manliness” of Ethnic Power-sharing Peace Agreements (with Aida A. Hozić)
Music by Tarabeat.

Apr 18, 2021 • 1h 19min
71/ Bearing Witness to What is Lost: Lebanon’s ‘Postwar’ Hauntings (with Ely Dagher)
This is a conversation with Lebanese director Ely Dagher. He is the director of the Palme D’Or-winning Waves ’98, one of my favorite short films. He also has an upcoming feature film called The Sea Ahead.
Get early access + more perks at Patreon.com/firethesetimes
Blog: https://thefirethisti.me
You can follow on Twitter or Instagram @ firethesetimes too.
Topics discussed:
Waves ’98
The image of the city
The 2015 ‘You Stink’ Lebanon uprising: context/background
The feeling of history repeating itself: Waves ’98 features the 1998 waste crisis which led to the 2015 waste crisis (which led to the uprising)
Inter-generational anxiety: ‘I don’t want to end up like them’
On resilience and why it’s a failed notion
The ‘ghostly figure’ in literature and movies, including in Lebanon
Haunting from the future, the feel of being stuck (permanent liminality)
The post-August 2020 port of Beirut moment
Interesting comparisons between Lebanon and Hong Kong, and their relationship with the past and future
How do we live day to day while also being in a state of anxiety? (his upcoming film)
How Beirut is portrayed in Waves ’98 and how Beirut has changed since the 90s
The relationship to the city and the sea in Beirut
Beirut as a ghost town
Hauntings in Waves ’98 and in real life; cyclical hauntings
Our peculiar relationship with Television
Our complicated relationship with the sea growing up in post-1990s Lebanon
The politics of decay (my essay on the topic)
war/post-war vs war/not-war
The anticipation of violence
‘wartime’
Is there a way out of that cyclical haunting?
Recommended Books & Movies
The Agony of Power by Jean Baudrillard
Persona by Ingmar Bergman
Caché by Michael Haneke
The music is by Tarabeat.

Apr 14, 2021 • 1h 26min
70/ (Post)Sectarianization: Mapping the New Politics of the Middle East (With Nader Hashemi & Danny Postel)
This is a conversation with Nader Hashemi and Danny Postel. We spoke about their book “Sectarianization: Mapping the New Politics of the Middle East“ as well as related topics.
Shownotes: https://thefirethisti.me/2021/03/31/postsectarianization-mapping-the-new-politics-of-the-middle-east-with-nader-hashemi-danny-postel/
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/firethesetimes
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGE68ISVDHvj6DN2Zhucblg
The music is by Tarabeat.

Apr 11, 2021 • 1h 25min
69/ The Entrenched “Manliness” of Ethnic Power-sharing Peace Agreements (with Aida A. Hozić)
This is a conversation with Aida A. Hozić. She is an Associate Professor of International Relations and Associate Chair of the Department of Political Science at the University of Florida, United States. Her research is situated at the intersection of political economy, cultural studies, and international security. Her current research project explores interplays between feminist art, “manly” conceptualisations of warfare, and the growth of art markets in the 21st century.
A recent essay of hers, the focus of this conversation is: Dayton, WPS and the entrenched “manliness” of ethnic power-sharing peace agreements.
Topics Discussed:
The 1995 Dayton Accords and its context
The patriarchal aspect of these accords, and what they erase
The gendered impact of the accords
Women Peace and Security (WPS) Agenda: background and why it matters
Bosnia-Belgium comparisons
Bosnia-Lebanon comparisons, including looking at ongoing impacts of Ta’if in Lebanon and Dayton in Bosnia
How Bosnia influenced the 2011 Arab Spring and responses to it
The multiple Syrias, multiple Bosnias
What do we really mean by ‘intervention’ (Bosnia, Rwanda, Libya, Syria)
The work of Walid Raad
The work of Azra Hromadžić
‘Peace’ accords as ‘appeasing men who have guns’
The problem with simplistic ‘anti-imperialism’
How the EU sees Bosnia
‘Big powers’ politics
Fortress Europe and the ‘Balkan Route’
The relationship between ethnic politics, the National Action Plans (NAPs), and the implementation of the Women Peace and Security (WPS) agenda in the Bosnia and Herzegovina’s transition
How gender analysis also helps us focus on ‘who else is missing’
Recommended Books
A Lexicon of Terror: Argentina and the Legacies of Torture by Marguerite Feitlowitz
The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov
The Political Economy of Violence Against Women by Jacqui True
Resources I’ve mentioned:
Post-War Reconstruction in Contested Cities: Comparing Urban Outcomes in Beirut and Sarajevo by Gruia Badescu
Localise the Women, Peace and Security Agenda – WILPF

Apr 4, 2021 • 1h 22min
68/ Solarpunk, Youth Liberation and Why Revolution Needs Therapy (with Saint Andrew)
This is a conversation with Andrew, the Solarpunk Anarchist from Trinidad and Tobago behind the YouTube channel 'Saint Andrewism.'
Topics Discussed
What is Solarpunk? Solarpunk Anarchism?
The problem with Greenwashing
How to talk about the climate & problems with the climate movement
Generational shifts in the climate movement
The importance of intersectionality
Switzerland's voting patterns and the reaction to Covid-19 (tangent on my part)
Why the revolution needs therapy (Reading Ashanti Alston & bell hooks, community care and solidarity, dealing with emotional baggage in revolutionary settings)
Everyone needs feminism, including men
The risks of psychologizing patriarchal oppression (brought up episode 27)
Mutual Aid
Emotional Anarchism (brought up episodes 59/60)
On social media and their limitations
Growing up in Trinidad + some chat about that specific context (legacies of colonialism, colorism, patriarchy, class divides, government corruption, education system, black capitalism, crime)
Some interesting Trinidad and Lebanon intersections/differences
Addressing Gen-Zers as a Gen-Zer
Learning from past movements' mistakes and successes
The past being taboo in Lebanon
Intersections between Solar Punk and Afro-Futurism
The radical roots of carnival (Trinidad, Notting Hill)
Discussions within anarchism
Recommended Books
Anarchy by Errico Malatesta
The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by bell hooks
The Ecology of Freedom: The Emergence and Dissolution of Hierarchy by Murray Bookchin
If you like what I do, please consider supporting this project with only 1$ a month on Patreon or on BuyMeACoffee.com. You can also do so directly on PayPal if you prefer.
If you can’t donate anything, you can still support this project by sharing with your friends and leaving a review wherever you get your podcasts!

Mar 28, 2021 • 1h 29min
67/ Cultural Dementia: How the West Lost Its History and Risks Losing Everything Else (with David Andress)
This is a conversation with David Andress. He is a Professor of Modern History at the University of Portsmouth and is the author of the book “Cultural Dementia: How the West has Lost its History and Risks Losing Everything Else“
If you like what I do, please consider supporting this project with only 1$ a month on Patreon or on BuyMeACoffee.com. You can also do so directly on PayPal if you prefer.
Patreon is for monthly, PayPal is for one-offs and BuyMeACoffee has both options.
If you can’t donate anything, you can still support this project by sharing with your friends and leaving a review wherever you get your podcasts!
Music by Tarabeat.
Topics Discussed
What is Cultural Dementia? And why use that term instead of Amnesia?
Why focus on France, the UK and the US?
The current crises in the three countries
George Orwell’s reflection on the relationship between imperialism/colonialism, the UK’s welfare state and the white working class
France’s Trente Glorieuses
Prospects of Le Pen and the far right winning in France
The ‘Brexit spirit’
Impact of Trumpism on US politics and what might come next
What is neoliberalism and how is that term (mis)used?
What is populism and how is that term (mis)used?
Berlusconi, the five star movement and racist politics in Italy
Canada, Australia and New Zealand’s specific contexts with regards to immigration and racism
Cambridge Analytica
The delusion of ‘socialism in one country’
The realities and delusions of Brexit (including example of CANZUK proposals and how India is excluded)
Ladybird libertarians (term by Otto English)
Isolationism within the British Labour Party
Weaknesses within Left parties, especially Labour (Attlee, Wilson, Blair)
The specificity of France and republicanism there
How Melenchon and Le Pen agree on Vichy’s status as ‘not France’
Chauvinism on the Left in France
The metaphor of the mansion
The Rhodes Must Fall protests in the UK
The ‘race question’ and white supremacy in the US
The specificity of the US constitution (and how it is outdated and embeds conservatism)
How history is taught (I gave the example of Lebanon)
Recommended Books
Priya Satia, Time’s Monster; History, Conscience and Britain’s Empire (Penguin/Allen Lane, 2020)
Priyamvada Gopal, Insurgent Empire; Anticolonial Resistance and British Dissent (Verso, 2019)
Olivette Otele, African Europeans (Hurst, 2020)
I also added:
The Good Immigrant by Nikesh Shukla
Afropean: Notes from Black Europe by Johny Pitts

Mar 25, 2021 • 22min
Intervention: Anti-Fascist Solidarity in Lyon (English/Français)
A few days ago La Plume Noire library was attacked by a group of around 50-60 fascists while it was hosting a food and clothing collection for homeless people in the area. This got a bit of media attention, but it is not the first time such an attack happens.
I had La Jeune Garde spokesperson Raphael Arnault on to talk about what happened exactly. He was on the scene and you may have heard his testimony shared on social media. I asked Raphael to give us some broader context on fascism in France, its specificity and what could be done to help all those fighting its rise.
First part of this is in English. For French skip to around [9:30]
Donation button for La Plume Noire: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=53ZEFL6TM45T2
UCL on Twitter https://twitter.com/UnionCoLib
La Jeune Garde on FB https://www.facebook.com/Jeune-Garde-Lyon-189238385010025/

Mar 21, 2021 • 1h 5min
66/ Legacies of Authoritarianism in Palestine (with Dana El Kurd)
This is a conversation with Dana El Kurd. She is a Palestinian academic who specializes in Comparative Politics and International Relations. Dana works as a researcher at the Arab Center for Research and Policy Studies and as an assistant professor at the Doha Institute for Graduate Studies.
We spoke about her most recent book “Polarized and Demobilized: Legacies of Authoritarianism in Palestine” published by Hurst.
Topics Discussed
Authoritarianism within the Palestinian Authority (PA)
The role of the US
The legacy of the Oslo Accords
The Arab Spring and their link to Palestine
How long-term authoritarianism impacts societies
Polarization and Demobilization since Oslo
The relationship between the Israeli occupation and the PA
The 2006 Elections
The difference between PA, PNA, PLO and Fatah
On NGOization
The Abraham Accords
Tankie rhetoric
How regional authoritarians (Hezbollah, Assad, Iran) are perceived in Palestine
Different generational shifts
Reforming the PLO
Recommended Books
How Social Movements Die: Repression and Demobilization of the Republic of New Africa by Christian Davenport
State of Repression: Iraq under Saddam Hussein by Lisa Blaydes
Inside the Battle of Algiers: Memoir of a Woman Freedom Fighter by Zohra Drif
And I mentioned:
A region in revolt: Mapping the recent uprisings in North Africa and West Asia

Mar 17, 2021 • 56min
#StopAsianHate [Repost] Sex Workers' Rights, Basebuilding and Mutual Aid (with Kate Zen)
Hey everyone,
I don't usually do this but in light of recent events friends suggested that I republish this episode from July 2020. If you haven't heard, last night eight workers in massage parlors were murdered in Atlanta in the Southern region of the United States. Six of these workers were Asian-Americans.
In response to the massacre, Red Canary Song, a US-based grassroots Asian sex workers coalition, tweeted: "These deaths somehow mean more because of the rise in anti-Asian violence related to COVID-19, but no mention of how they’re connected to the long policing of Asian sex work, which so many Asian Americans and those speaking up against anti-Asian hate endorse."
As it happens, in July of 2020 I had interviewed Kate Zen, one of the organisers with Red Canary Song, which also organises transnationally with Asian sex workers across the diaspora in Toronto, Paris, and Hong Kong.
In whatever capacity I can, I stand in solidarity with sex worker/massage parlour workers and activists everywhere in the world and my thoughts go to those who lost their lives to this hate crime.
Before sharing this episode, I wanted to read out a declaration of support that is being passed around. You can find it in the description of this episode.
You will also find links to donate in the description and on the Twitter account @FireTheseTimes
The Declaration of Support:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSftvwRE2LEsfL24fvtygAHdqN8qHSjcImOhu_AINt6cmtstQw/viewform?fbzx=-6123717124999218342