
Church Disrupted
Taking on church hurt and spiritual abuse one conversation at a time. If you’ve been hurt by the church, you’re not alone. Together, we can heal. Together, we can bring about change. It’s time to take a stand!
*Church Disrupted is a production of the Spiritual Abuse Institute. Learn more about our work at: https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/
Latest episodes

11 snips
Feb 26, 2025 • 1h 3min
072: How Church Systems Enable Spiritual Abuse—And What Must Change Now!
Join Jeff Cochran, host of Church Disrupted and board member at the Spiritual Abuse Institute, as he highlights the alarming ways church systems can enable spiritual abuse. He discusses the urgent need for transparency and accountability in both mega and mid-sized churches. Cochran reveals how organizational protection often overshadows individual well-being and emphasizes the necessity of honest conversations for meaningful change. This insightful discussion also advocates for prioritizing community-centered values and introducing proactive safety measures in church governance.

Feb 18, 2025 • 1h 27min
071: A NEW Reformation? How To Restore Trust In The Church
In this episode of the Church Disrupted Podcast, Jeff Cochran and Drew Cordell (the author of Honest Christianity) explore the pressing need for reformation within the church, discussing the decline in trust towards church leadership, the troubling intersection of business practices and church operations, and the importance of accountability and transparency from churches and pastors. This conversation highlights the tension of frustration and hope for the church's future at the same time. Follow Drew's work and get his book here: https://www.honestchristianity.org/Find out more about the Spiritual Abuse Institute and the Church Disrupted Podcast at https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/.Want to support SAI financially?https://donorbox.org/sai-initial-funding-campaignJoin the church disrupted COMMUNITY here: https://discord.gg/nbWwg8Sz6ZLearn more about the Safe Church Pledge Here: https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/safechurchpledgePlease Subscribe and Share!Chapters00:00 Introduction to Drew Cordell and His Journey07:07 The Need for Reformation in the Church12:52 Cultural Shifts and the Church's Response18:09 Business Practices vs. Church Values25:05 The Role of Systems in Church Growth31:11 Identifying Areas for Change in the Church37:42 Disruption vs. Reformation in the Church43:22 The Importance of Questions in Faith44:47 Reallocation of Resources in the Church47:05 Restoration vs. Reformation in the Church50:56 Curiosity and the Pursuit of Truth56:43 The Priesthood of All Believers01:02:02 Safe Church Practices and AccountabilityFair Use Disclaimer:This video may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. All clips used are protected by the Fair Use Doctrine within Title 17 of the United States Code. This doctrine safeguards the use of copyrighted material for transformative purposes, such as commentary, criticism, review and news reporting. Under Title 17 U.S.C. § 512(f), any person who makes a false, bad faith, or misleading copyright claim or uses a copyright takedown to infringe on free speech, criticism, or commentary can be held liable for damages to the content creator.Hosseinzadeh v. Klein, 276 F.Supp.3d 34 (S.D.N.Y. 2017); Equals Three, LLC v. Jukin Media, Inc., 139 F. Supp. 3d 1094 (C.D. Cal. 2015).

Feb 13, 2025 • 2h 41min
070: Rebuking Popular Mega Church Pastor For Shameless Bully Pulpit Behavior
In this episode of the Church Disrupted Podcast, Jeff Cochran addresses a public rebuke directed at Landon Schott, the senior pastor of Mercy Culture Church, over bully pulpit tactics that demonize detractors and questioners of Mercy Culture. This episode focuses on the importance of correction, repentance, and restoration in church discipline and sets a Biblical foundation for how to bring correction and church discipline to leaders and pastors in the church.Read the original article about what's going on at Mercy Culture here:https://julieroys.com/dallas-area-megachurch-pastor-calls-neighbors-evil-and-demonic-in-clash-over-building-project/Find out more about the Spiritual Abuse Institute and the Church Disrupted Podcast athttps://www.spiritualabuse.institute/.Want to support SAI financially?https://donorbox.org/sai-initial-funding-campaignJoin the church disrupted COMMUNITY here:https://discord.gg/nbWwg8Sz6ZLearn more about the Safe Church Pledge Here:https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/safechurchpledgePlease Subscribe and Share!Fair Use Disclaimer:This video may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. All clips used are protected by the Fair Use Doctrine within Title 17 of the United States Code. This doctrine safeguards the use of copyrighted material for transformative purposes, such as commentary, criticism, review and news reporting. Under Title 17 U.S.C. § 512(f), any person who makes a false, bad faith, or misleading copyright claim or uses a copyright takedown to infringe on free speech, criticism, or commentary can be held liable for damages to the content creator.Hosseinzadeh v. Klein, 276 F.Supp.3d 34 (S.D.N.Y. 2017); Equals Three, LLC v. Jukin Media, Inc., 139 F. Supp. 3d 1094 (C.D. Cal. 2015).Chapters00:00 Public Rebuke and Its Purpose05:48 Understanding Church Discipline12:03 The Context of the Rebuke18:12 Behavioral Concerns and Spiritual Abuse23:54 Conclusion and Call for Restoration39:36 The Dangers of Othering in Community Discussions45:09 Prophetic Words and Accusations53:45 The Complexity of Good and Bad in Ministry01:01:52 The Importance of Correction and Truth01:12:46 The Need for Healing and Restoration01:17:58 A Call for Unity and Constructive Dialogue01:25:55 Scriptural Context and Accusations01:32:39 Power Dynamics in Leadership01:39:10 Fear Language and Its Impact01:46:42 Hubris and Community Relations01:54:08 Witch Walks and Community Tensions01:59:16 The Role of Narrative in Accusations02:06:01 The Misuse of Scripture in Spiritual Abuse02:12:05 The Call for Repentance and Restoration02:22:22 Identifying Signs of Spiritual Abuse02:30:00 A Path Forward for Mercy Culture

Feb 3, 2025 • 1h 15min
069: How This PASTOR Went From DECONSTRUCTING His Faith To Becoming A Trauma Informed Theologian
In this episode of the Church Disrupted podcast, Jeff Cochran engages with David Ruybalid, a trauma-informed theologian, discuss his journey from faith deconstruction to healing. they talk together about the complexity of spiriutal abuse, how to deal with conflict in the church, the need for accountability, and how churches can create safe and trauma informed environments.
Follow David's work here
- https://www.instagram.com/david_ruybalid/
- https://davidruybalid.com/
Want to support SAI financially?
https://donorbox.org/sai-initial-funding-campaign
Find out more about the Spiritual Abuse Institute and the Church Disrupted Podcast at https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/.
Join the church disrupted COMMUNITY here: https://discord.gg/nbWwg8Sz6Z
Learn more about the Safe Church Pledge Here: https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/safechurchpledge
Please Subscribe and Share!
Chapters
00:00 Intro
07:01 Navigating Spiritual Abuse and Trauma
14:03 The Role of Questions in Faith Development
20:05 Understanding Trauma and Its Impact on Disclosure
27:03 Misuse of Scripture: Matthew 18 and Church Discipline
37:57 Supportive Environments for Personal Growth
39:35 Understanding Matthew 18 in Modern Context
41:03 The Importance of Humility and Accountability
43:12 Selective Enforcement of Church Policies
44:54 Principles for Better Church Leadership
45:51 Exposing Darkness: The Role of Accountability
49:01 The Burden of Pastoral Leadership
52:22 The Need for Systemic Change in Churches
54:20 The Prevalence of Spiritual Abuse
57:22 The Role of Systems in Church Culture
01:01:24 Reimagining the Role of Pastors
01:03:13 Missteps in Addressing Mental Health
01:07:41 Creating Safe Church Environments
01:10:56 Introducing the Religious Trauma Network

Jan 29, 2025 • 1h 15min
068: How To Restore God's Blueprint for The Church (with Natalie Runion)
In this episode of the Church Disrupted podcast, Jeff Cochran welcomes back Natalie Runion to discuss her latest book, 'The House that Jesus Built.' They explore the dangers of building on shifting sand, shepherds versus CEOs in church leadership, and the critical need for transparency and accountability within the church. Natalie and Jeff also discuss the importance of navigating disagreements with grace, the power of listening as a ministry, and the need for a healthy church culture that supports individuals leaving the church.
Get Natalie's books and follow her work here: https://www.instagram.com/raisedtostay/
Want to support SAI financially?
https://donorbox.org/sai-initial-funding-campaign
Find out more about the Spiritual Abuse Institute and the Church Disrupted Podcast at https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/.
Join the church disrupted COMMUNITY here: https://discord.gg/nbWwg8Sz6Z
Learn more about the Safe Church Pledge Here: https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/safechurchpledge
Please Subscribe and Share!
Chapters
00:00 Intro
02:24 Returning to the Blueprint: The House That Jesus Built
05:34 The Dangers of Building on Shifting Sand
12:06 The Role of Leadership: Shepherds vs. CEOs
18:34 Financial Transparency in the Church
30:08 Accountability and Trust in Church Finances
37:06 The Widow's Mite: A Misunderstood Teaching
45:40 Social Media Backlash: The Green Room Controversy
51:14 The Impact of Financial Security on Pastoral Care
01:00:20 Listening as a Spiritual Superpower
01:05:12 Navigating Church Transitions: Leaving Well

Jan 22, 2025 • 1h 19min
067: Church Betrayal: The Hidden Wounds Of Spiritual Abuse (with Lianna Chong)
In this episode of the Church Disrupted podcast, Jeff Cochran and organizational psychologist Lianna Chong to explore the complex issues surrounding spiritual abuse within church settings. They discuss the importance of psychological safety, the role of whistleblowers, and the resistance to change often encountered in church leadership.
Lianna shares her personal journey and about her research project aimed at creating a validated assessment to help individuals and churches recognize spiritual abuse,.
Take Lianna's Survey Here: www.salcsurvey.com
Follow Liana Here:
- Instagram: @Liannachong
- Substack: goodshepherding.substack.com
Get the Power Control Wheel: https://www.theduluthmodel.org/wheels/
Join Spiritual Abuse Awareness Weekend HERE: https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/about/saawarenessmonth
Learn more about the Safe Church Pledge Here: https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/safechurchpledge
Want to support SAI financially?
https://donorbox.org/sai-initial-funding-campaign
Find out more about the Spiritual Abuse Institute and the Church Disrupted Podcast at https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/.
Join the church disrupted COMMUNITY here: https://discord.gg/nbWwg8Sz6Z
Please Subscribe and Share!
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Spiritual Abuse and Organizational Psychology
03:01 Understanding Psychological Safety in Organizations
05:49 The Role of Whistleblowers in Church Dynamics
09:06 Resistance to Change in Church Leadership
11:53 The Importance of Listening in Leadership
15:11 Recognizing and Responding to Spiritual Abuse
18:07 Personal Journey into Addressing Spiritual Abuse
20:56 The Impact of Institutional Betrayal
23:59 Healing from Spiritual Abuse and Trauma
26:49 Existential Trauma and Its Effects
30:13 The Challenge of Recognizing Spiritual Abuse
39:24 Understanding Spiritual Abuse and Its Impact
47:57 Recognizing Signs of Spiritual Abuse
55:43 The Complexity of Holding Two Truths
01:01:05 Developing Tools to Identify Spiritual Abuse
01:10:10 Engaging the Community in Research

22 snips
Jan 18, 2025 • 60min
066: What Is Spiritual Abuse & How In The World Do We STOP It?!
Dive into the complexities of spiritual abuse and its often-hidden signs within church environments. Discover the dangers of idolizing authority figures and the importance of questioning teachings that manipulate scripture. Explore the concept of spiritual bypassing and how it can mask genuine emotional struggles. Learn about the need for transparency and accountability in spiritual communities, along with practical steps for healing and protection against these toxic behaviors.

20 snips
Jan 16, 2025 • 1h 52min
065: How to STOP Spiritual Abuse and Church Scandals
Explore the urgent issue of spiritual abuse and the need for reform in churches. Discover the Safe Church Pledge, a transformative initiative focusing on transparency and accountability. Learn how implementing financial transparency and conflict of interest policies can restore trust within congregations. Hear about the importance of abolishing NDAs and non-compete agreements to maintain ethical standards. The conversation advocates for safety measures and robust governance to protect vulnerable members and ensure a supportive church environment.

Dec 31, 2024 • 1h 21min
64.5: Narcissism, Hush Money, & Spiritual Abuse: Big Problems in Churches Today!
In the final episode of the Church Disrupted Podcast for 2024, we re-stream part of episode 1 as a reminder of where we've been and where we are going. Narcissism, hush money, NDAs, and spiritual abuse in churches are all on the docket for this round table conversation.
Want to support SAI financially?https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/about/endofyeargiving
Find out more about the Spiritual Abuse Institute and the Church Disrupted Podcast at https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/.
Join the church disrupted COMMUNITY here: https://discord.gg/nbWwg8Sz6Z
Please Subscribe and Share!

Dec 19, 2024 • 55min
064: Untwisting Scriptures How the Bible is Misused to Manipulate & Control People
In the final new episode of the Church Disrupted podcast for 2024, host Jeff Cochran welcomes back Rebecca Davis, author of the Untwisting Scriptures book series. They discuss the journey of unlearning misconceptions about scripture, particularly the controversial concept of 'dying to self.' Rebecca emphasizes the importance of returning to the Word of God for understanding and encourages listeners to engage in conversations about faith and theology, even when they disagree. The conversation also touches on the role of faith in understanding scripture, the importance of living in freedom rather than striving for holiness, and the importance of empathy in healing trauma, particularly within the church context.
Want to support SAI financially?https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/about/endofyeargiving
Get Rebecca's books and FREE resources here: https://heresthejoy.com/
Find out more about the Spiritual Abuse Institute and the Church Disrupted Podcast at https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/.
Join the church disrupted COMMUNITY here: https://discord.gg/nbWwg8Sz6Z
Please Subscribe and Share!
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Untwisting Scriptures
02:54 The Journey of Unlearning and Understanding Scripture
06:05 Dying to Self: A Controversial Concept
08:51 Exploring Misunderstandings in Scripture
12:07 The Role of Faith and Trust in Understanding
14:59 Living in Freedom: The Final Part of the Journey
27:27 The Role of Suffering and Empathy in Healing
30:45 Understanding Trauma and the Church's Response
34:35 Misrepresentation of God and Scripture
39:44 Debunking Myths: Dying to Self vs. Following Christ
49:22 Resources for Spiritual Growth and Understanding