Behavioral Grooves Podcast

Love connects us to things in a deep way. But when we say we love our car, or we love our favorite beach, or we love our children, the love we express for each of those things is very different. So can we really love things as much as we love people?  Our guest is Dr. Aaron Ahuvia, the world’s leading expert on brand love, a topic he pioneered and has worked on since 1990. He is a Professor of Marketing at the University of Michigan Ann Arbor’s Ross School of Business. Among the many books and papers he has authored, our favorite is the paper titled “Dr. Seuss, Felicitator”. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the term “felicitator,” it is someone who brings happiness to others.  With Aaron, we discuss the very interesting and important topic of loving the things in our lives, why we love them, and how that love can change over time. This is especially true with brands and products and sporting teams and neighborhoods. One of the big takeaways from our conversation with Aaron is just to let go of this notion that it might be bad to love something. If you love Behavioral Grooves, and it brings you a little happiness, please consider becoming one of our special Patreon members. Or you can tell us, and others, how much you love the show by leaving us a podcast review on whatever platform you use to listen. Thanks!   Topics (4:45) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:09) Can you really love a thing like you love a person? (9:39) The difference between liking and loving. (13:13) Why do we love sports teams? (18:05) Why do we love something that can’t reciprocate? (20:18) Is there an evolutionary basis to our love of objects? (23:44) Do we love the things we use more often? (27:44) Loving the music vs. the equipment that plays the music. (34:29) The social aspect of the objects we buy. (36:46) How Aaron loves music. (42:46) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on what we love. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Aaron Ahuvia’s book “The Things We Love: How Our Passions Connect Us and Make Us Who We Are”: https://amzn.to/3IW0Jxj  Broadbent, Sarah (2012) Brand love in sport: antecedents and consequences: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/305330187_Brand_love_in_sport_antecedents_and_consequences  Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, Episode 306, “Trust Your Gut? Only If The Data Supports It”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/trust-your-gut/  Rory Sutherland & Pete Dyson, Episode 290 “Transport Your Thinking; Why We Need To Reframe Travel”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/transport-rory-sutherland-pete-dyson/  Behavioral Grooves Patreon:  https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves.    Musical Links Cory Wong “Power Station”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1loN5mhRkI  Brian Eno “Desert Island Music”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rQBi692Dw8 

Disembarking people from a plane, row by row during the height of COVID, but then cramming all the passengers into a bus to the terminal…where is the common sense in that? Best selling author Martin Lindstrom laments that we are drowning in bureaucracy and that technology is contributing to the death of common sense in society. Founder and chairman of Lindstrom Company, Martin Lindstrom is also the best selling author of seven New York Times best-selling books. We talk with Martin about his most recent book, “The Ministry Of Common Sense: How to Eliminate Bureaucratic Red Tape, Bad Excuses, and Corporate BS”. Our conversation covers a lot of ground in a short time, including how John F. Kennedy was a trendsetter for the way businessmen dress today, why Martin lives without a phone, as well as how to cultivate more human-to-human connections. And since no conversation on Behavioral Grooves would be complete without a chit-chat about music, we find out what artists Martin would choose to take with him to a desert island. If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider donating to our work through Patreon. We really appreciate all our listeners' support, thanks. Topics (2:55) Welcome to Martin and speed round. (8:19) Is technology contributing to the death of common sense? (9:51) Separating private life and work life. (14:45) What is the Ministry of Common Sense about? (22:58) Compliance and being different. (27:07) What musical artists would Martin take to a desert island? (30:03) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on common sense.   © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Martin Lindstrom’s book: “The Ministry Of Common Sense: How to Eliminate Bureaucratic Red Tape, Bad Excuses, and Corporate BS”: https://amzn.to/3z0CJ7M  Martin Lindstrom: https://www.martinlindstrom.com/  Whitney Johnson, Episode 285: “The Three Phases of Growth and Learning”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/three-phases-of-growth/  Charlie Bell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Bell_(businessman)  Human Risk Podcast: https://www.human-risk.com/podcast  Nir Eyal, Episode 303 “From Distracted To Focused: Nir Eyal’s Secrets On How To Be Indistractable”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/nir-eyal-how-to-be-indistractable/  Vanessa Bohns, Episode 253 “Why You Don‘t Need to be Powerful to be Influential”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/influence-vanessa-bohns/  Robert Cialdini, Episode 226 “The Power of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence”:  https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cialdini-unity-in-influence/  Andrea Belk Olson, Episode 304 “Finding Out What Your Customers Want and Why It Matters”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/what-your-customers-wants/  Behavioral Grooves Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links Tina Turner “Proud Mary”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTfYnRQgKgY&ab_channel=TinaTurner  Phil Collins “A Groovy Kind of Love”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsC_SARyPzk&ab_channel=PhilCollins  Mozart “Requiem”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi8vJ_lMxQI  Vivaldi “Four Seasons”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRxofEmo3HA 

When making big decisions, people often go with what feels right - who we marry, where we live, what career we pursue. We base these decisions on our gut instinct. But what if our gut is biased, misinformed or quite simply wrong?  Economist, former Google scientist, New York Times bestselling author and friend of the show Seth Stephens-Davidowitz has mined through thousands of data sets to prove that we are, in fact, frequently making ill-informed decisions when we only trust our gut. And we are delighted to be talking to Seth again about his fantastic new book, Don't Trust Your Gut: Using Data to Get What You Really Want in Life. From the data, Seth has uncovered what activities make us most happy, which isn’t always the most comfortable activity. “If you're on the fence, between walking with friends, and lying on the couch watching Netflix…go on that walk…it's been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt that that's the more likely path to happiness.”  But surprisingly there is one aspect of life that data cannot give us answers on. Listen to Seth’s entertaining interview to find out when exactly we should and shouldn’t trust our gut. At Behavioral Grooves, the data tells us that our listeners are loving our recent episodes! Thank you to everyone who has recently left us a podcast review. We read each and every one of them! Some of our dedicated Behavioral Grooves, donate to our work through Patreon page. Please consider supporting our work in this way, many thanks.   Topics (2:58) Welcome and speed round questions. (10:04) Should we really not trust our gut? (16:09) Relationships are as unpredictable as the weather forecast. (20:16) Big data doesn’t apply to everything. (22:51) Is skepticism underrated?  (24:51) What is mappiness? (27:48) Does supporting a winning team make you more happy? (29:28) The #1 happy activity. (32:29) Mistaking a comfortable activity for an enjoyable activity. (37:28) What is dataism? (44:20) The data behind hustling.  (46:54) Would Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen make it today? (52:37) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on trusting your gut.   © 2022 Behavioral Grooves   Links Seth’s book: “Don't Trust Your Gut: Using Data to Get What You Really Want in Life”: https://amzn.to/3yICKwT  Episode 246, Seth Stephens-Davidowitz: Are You More Honest with Google or Your Friends? https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/are-you-more-honest-with-google/  Alexander Todorov, “Face Value: The Irresistible Influence of First Impressions”: https://amzn.to/3Pi59kp  Episode 211, AJ Jacobs: A Thousand Thanks: A Lifetime of Experiments and Gratitude: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/a-thousand-thanks-with-aj-jacobs/  Seth’s previous book: “Everybody Lies: Big Data, New Data, and What the Internet Can Tell Us About Who We Really Are”: https://amzn.to/32ULlgD Episode 222, Shankar Vedantam “How Delusions Can Actually Be Useful: Shankar Vedantam Reveals How“: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/shankar-vedantam-useful-delusions/  Mappiness: http://www.mappiness.org.uk/  Krishnamurti T, Loewenstein G. The partner-specific sexual liking and sexual wanting scale: psychometric properties. Arch Sex Behav. 2012 Apr;41(2): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21720917/  Episode 287, Nick Epley, Why Talking To Strangers Is Actually Good For Your Wellbeing: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/talking-to-strangers/  Episode 274: Paul Bloom, Why Finding Pleasure in Life is a Painful Journey: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/pleasure-is-a-painful-journey/  Episode 205: Logan Ury, The Myth of the “Relationship Spark”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/relationship-spark-logan-ury/  1000 True Fans, Kevin Kelly: https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/    Musical Links Rick Springfield “Jesse’s Girl”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYkbTyHXwbs  Bruce Springsteen “Glory Days’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WccS8iFXgFI  Bob Dylan “The Times Are A-Changin’”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90WD_ats6eE 23refvc  Leonard Cohen “Hallelujah”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrLk4vdY28Q  Metallica “Nothing Else Matters”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAGnKpE4NCI  Luther Ingram "(If Loving You Is Wrong) I Don't Want to Be Right": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvJj7SN9EWI 

Over the last 50 years, little has changed for the pharmaceutical management of mental illness. This is troublesome, but not unsolvable, according to The New York Times writer and author, Daniel Bergner. We talked with him about his most recent book, The Mind and the Moon: My Brother’s Story, the Science of Our Brains, and the Search for Our Psyches, and some of the key themes he discovered along his personal journey with a mentally challenged family member and other people he came to know well. We discussed the shortcomings of our current mental healthcare systems and processes, the benefits of non-traditional mental health therapies, the ancient myth about the Turkey Prince, and how we might be able to get immediate relief by reframing the conversation about pain management and pain suppression. The book features stories about his brother and a few other people that are told in remarkable detail over a long period of time. The gripping and beautifully-told narrative will open your eyes to some of the challenges that mental illness brings to life. Our conversation with Daniel explored these stories and areas of mental health that are too often overlooked - and we are grateful we get to share that conversation with you. If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider contributing to our work through Patreon. Writing a podcast review or giving us a quick rating also helps others find our show. Weird, isn’t it? But, yeah, it’s true. We would appreciate any help you can offer. Most importantly, if you or someone you know needs help, please seek help. The Mental Health Guide is a global resource with phone numbers and websites in dozens of countries: https://www.helpguide.org/find-help.htm. Topics (2:45) Welcome and speed round. (5:23) What the book The Mind and The Moon is about. (7:18) Progress in mental health treatment and with society in the last 50 years. (10:00) The 3 stories that illustrate mental health in the book. (15:50) The effect of psilocybin. (18:15) What a turkey under a table can teach us about managing mental illness. (21:09) What are the next steps in mental health? (22:51) Daniel’s personal journey. (26:23) Writing the book in the context of the Trump election and George Floyd. (29:15) This is not an anti-pharmaceutical book. (35:18) Was it deliberate that music was a big part of the book?  (41:42) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim discussing mental health.   © 2022 Behavioral Grooves   Links Mental Health Guide with global phone numbers and websites: https://www.helpguide.org/find-help.htm  Daniel Bergner’s book, “The Mind and The Moon: My Brother's Story, the Science of Our Brains, and the Search for Our Psyches”: https://amzn.to/3aka5pU  Psilocybin:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin Steven Hyman: shorturl.at/lty19  Episode 274, Paul Bloom, “Why Finding Pleasure in Life is a Painful Journey”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/pleasure-is-a-painful-journey/  Episode 255, Daniel Almeida “The 5 Healthy Brain Habits Of A Neuroscientist”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/healthy-brain-habits-neuroscience/  Behavioral Grooves Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves Musical Links Stanley Brothers “The Darkest Hour Is Just Before Dawn”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmiYKpVNOVg  Marty Robbins “Red River Valley”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezJkRDQmL2Y  Simon & Garfunkel “The Sound of Silence”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAEppFUWLfc  Wolfgang Mozart “Symphony No. 36 in C Major, K. 425 ‘Linz’ - I. Adagio - Allegro spiritoso”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMloPIwd_FM  Antonio Vivaldi “Four Seasons - Spring”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LAPFM3dgag 

Customer feedback lacks two fundamental pieces of information: context and behavior. Traditional methods of insight, like the Net Promoter Score (NPS) and customer feedback surveys have their limitations. Andrea Belk Olson, our guest on this episode, challenges organizations to adopt a different approach to customer behavior by delving into the WHY and the WHAT, then coming up with a WOW hypothesis - a 3 step process called the 3W Ideation.   Author of the new book, “What to Ask: How to Learn What Customers Need but Don't Tell You”: https://amzn.to/3yvooRF, Andrea Belk Olson is the CEO of applied behavioral science consulting firm Pragmadik, and head of the University of Iowa JPEC startup incubator. She delivers a unique, cognitive method for discovering hidden customer needs, converting them quickly into differentiators, and avoiding the pitfalls of traditional research.   By using behavioral insights in organizations, Andrea believes that companies can become more customer focused. And when everyone in an organization is customer focused, the whole strategic vision of the company realigns.    If you enjoy listening to Behavioral Grooves Podcast, please consider donating to our work through our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. We use all the donations to fund the production of the podcast. Thanks!   Topics (3:11) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:14) How can marketers understand customers' needs? (13:01) How to remove the disconnect between marketing and sales. (16:42) The steps marketing can take to get closer to the customer. (19:23) How behavioral science can help with adapting to change. (26:07) The 3 W Ideation process: Why, What & WOW. (30:04) The shortcomings of the Net Promoter Scores (NPS). (32:44) What role does culture play? (37:31) What Beethoven can teach us about behavior change. (42:28) What music would Andrea take to a desert island?  (45:37) Grooving session with Kurt and Tim on What To Ask.    © 2022 Behavioral Grooves   Links Andrea Belk Olson’s book: “What to Ask: How to Learn What Customers Need but Don't Tell You”: https://amzn.to/3yvooRF  Episode 289, Why Not All Nudges Work ”In The Wild” with Nina Mazar PhD & Dilip Soman PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-not-all-nudges-work-in-the-wild-nina-mazar-dilip-soman/    Musical Links Queen “I Want To Break Free”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3w5gVM_4y8  Led Zeppelin “Whole Lotta Love”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQmmM_qwG4k 

Utilizing the power of identity by proudly declaring yourself as indistractable can be a persuasive step in becoming the kind of person we want to be. By changing the language we use to describe ourselves, we can actually influence our own behavior.    This is just one of the techniques that our popular guest, Nir Eyal describes in his new book, “Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life”. Nir is the international bestselling author of “Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products”, a behavioral design expert, and host of the wonderful podcast “Nir and Far”.    In a world full of demands on our attention, we may think that getting distracted is a recent phenomenon and blame our technology use. But in this episode, Nir describes how getting distracted is simply part of our human nature, something we’ve been plagued with for centuries. Listen to our fascinating interview with Nir to learn how to be intentional with our tasks, what planning our time should look like and why leaving time for reflection can lead to more creative achievements.    If you enjoy this interview with Nir Eyal on Behavioral Grooves, please consider donating to our work through our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. We use all the donations to fund the production of the podcast. Thanks!   Topics (3:42) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:22) Why to-do lists are the worst way to increase productivity. (12:41) Internal triggers and external triggers. (16:13) Why is it easier to look outside ourselves than inside ourselves? (17:57) Nir’s personal journey into behavioral design. (23:37) The morality of manipulation: behavioral design and ethics. (27:06) The regret test: how you test ethical design at the corporate level. (37:02) Practicing self compassion has surprising results on reaching your goals. (42:23) How the language we use affects our behavior. (49:28) Nir's very unusual answer to the desert island music question. (52:29) Grooving session with Kurt and Tim on being indistractable.  © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Nir Eyal’s book: “Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life”: http://geni.us/Indistractable Indistractable bonus content: http://nirandfar.com/indistractable Nir and Far Podcast: https://www.nirandfar.com/podcast/  Habits vs routines: https://www.nirandfar.com/habits/ Why schedules are better than to-do lists: https://www.nirandfar.com/todo-vs-schedule-builder/ Time boxing: https://www.nirandfar.com/timeboxing Kurt Lewin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Lewin   Dan Pink, Episode 277: No Regrets? Really? Why Regrets Actually Bring Us Hope: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-regrets-bring-us-hope/  Roy Baumeister, Episode 171: Self Control, Belonging, and Why Your Most Dedicated Employees Are the Ones To Watch Out For: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/self-control-belonging-and-why-your-most-dedicated-employees-are-the-ones-to-watch-out-for-with-roy-baumeister/  Bernecker Katharina, Job Veronika (2015) “Beliefs about willpower moderate the effect of previous day demands on next day’s expectations and effective goal striving”: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.01496/full  Behavioral Grooves Patreon : https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves   Musical Links The Beatles “Don’t Let Me Down”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCtzkaL2t_Y  Kanye West “Stronger”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsO6ZnUZI0g&ab_channel=KanyeWestVEVO

Mitt Romney once mistakenly quipped that people were either "makers or takers" echoing a common sentiment among US politicians that by working we provide society with value and are rewarded with a sense of dignity. But what if we considered that each of us had dignity that wasn't engulfed in our work identity? Would we be less susceptible to burnout if we accepted ourselves as enough as we are, regardless of our job status?    Having come through a dark period of burnout himself, Jonathan Malesic firmly believes that we all have dignity. Period. He has written a timely book called The End of Burnout: Why work drains us and how to build better lives. We are delighted that Jon has come to talk to Behavioral Grooves Podcast about what leads to burnout and how to prevent it.   Jon delves into how the Protestant work ethic can contribute to burnout. And echoes Jennifer Moss’ sentiments from last week's episode that burnout is an issue with corporate culture, not an individual problem.   And to Tim's delight, Jon provides some historical context to the first musical mentions of burnout by Bob Dylan and Neil Young back in the 70s. We learn why that period in particular was a pivotal moment in the US labor market and how this is reflected in music from that era.   If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider donating to our work through Patreon. If donating isn’t an option, don’t worry, writing a podcast review helps others find our show, and we love reading them!   Topics (2:28) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:47) The expectations of work vs. the reality of work. (11:38) Jonathan’s experience of burnout. (16:21) The 6 factors that can lead to burnout. (21:29) Solutions to burnout. (23:43) How the Protestant work ethic contributes to burnout. (27:43) Putting dignity before work. (32:44) How Jonathan wrote his whole book listening to just one album. (37:33) Bob Dylan and Neil Young started singing about burnout in the 70s. (42:45) How to avoid burnout. (45:56) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on the causes and solutions to burnout.   © 2022 Behavioral Grooves   Links Jonathan Malesic: https://jonmalesic.com/  “The End of Burnout: Why Work Drains Us and How to Build Better Lives” By Jonathan Malesic: https://amzn.to/3tDdS8j The Parking Lot Movie by Meghan Eckman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Parking_Lot_Movie Christina Maslach: https://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/christina-maslach  Michael Leiter: https://mpleiter.com/author/mpleiter/  Episode 247, Dr Phil Zimbardo: Stanford Prison Experiment, 50 Years On: What Have We Really Learnt? https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/stanford-prison-experiment/ The Pope’s Encyclicals: https://www.papalencyclicals.net/ Herbert Freudenberger: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Freudenberger  The Myth of Sisyphus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Sisyphus  Episode 301, Jennifer Moss: How To Fix Burnout (Hint: It Isn’t Another Yoga Session): https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-fix-burnout-jennifer-moss/  Episode 281, Sesil Pir: Why Leaders Need To Care For People, Not Manage Them: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/care-for-people-not-manage-them/  Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves   Musical Links Neil Young “Ambulance Blues”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LTiKJlB62g Bob Dylan “Shelter from the Storm”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gsDBuHwqbM The War on Drugs “Lost In The Dream”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3HqnHUohOo Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan “Mustt Mustt”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDfELfpumEE   

We’ve been programmed to treat burnout as a self-care issue, as if we’re just one yoga session or a relaxation app away from fixing the problem. Jennifer Moss, however, describes the solution to burnout as an organizational issue, not an individual hurdle. Creating a workplace culture where leaders model healthy work behavior, engage with empathy and cater for employees' individual needs can foster an environment that helps prevent burnout before it starts.  "Employees can’t be what they can’t see."  We love Jen’s analogy of the dusty ping pong table to illustrate the perks that some businesses offer but then don’t back-up with a work culture that encourages 20 minute breaks throughout the day. What your left with is a business that sounds like a great place to work, but in reality, there’s a dusty ping pong table in the basement that never gets used. Organizations need to adapt. Jennifer Moss is a Harvard Business Review contributor and nationally syndicated radio columnist. She was on the Global Happiness Council—a small group of leading scientists and economists that support the UN’s sustainable goals related to global well-being and the Annual Global Happiness Policy Report.  Jennifer is also the author of a new book, The Burnout Epidemic which came out in September 2021. In this episode, Jen will open your eyes to new ways of thinking about burnout - particularly how it gets framed in our culture and that loving your job doesn’t make you immune to burnout.  If you would like to become a special supporter of Behavioral Grooves Podcast, you can join Behavioral Grooves Patreon. Topics (4:43) Welcome to Jen and speed round questions.  (8:26) Is loving your work enough to avoid burnout? (9:20) Why do we struggle so much with burnout? (10:52) The 6 causes of burnout.  (13:30) The dusty ping pong table. (15:55) What role does leadership play in preventing burnout? (21:45) Can you learn empathy? (25:07) Should companies become more paternalistic? (26:40) Culture eats strategy for breakfast. (29:23) Becoming professional eavesdroppers.  (33:36) Non work related check ins. (38:47) How small team scrums can improve productivity.  (42:19) Does mindset affect agility in teams? (44:29) What music does Jen enjoy listening to? (49:00) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on burnout. © 2022 Behavioral Grooves Links Jennifer Moss’ book “The Burnout Epidemic: The Rise of Chronic Stress and How We Can Fix It”: https://amzn.to/3K3O4be  Jennifer Moss: https://www.jennifer-moss.com/  Chester Elton, Episode 256 “Anxiety at Work: Why We Feel It and How To Manage It”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/anxiety-at-work-chester-elton/  Dan Pink, Episode 277 “No Regrets? Really? Why Regrets Actually Bring Us Hope“: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-regrets-bring-us-hope/  Victoria Shaffer, Episode 95 “End of Life Decision Tools“: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/victoria-schaffer-end-of-life-decision-tools/  Liz Fosslien, Episode 120 “Covid-19 Crisis: Emotional Impact of WFH with Liz Fosslien”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/c-19-crisis-emotional-impact-of-wfh-with-liz-fosslien/  Linda Babcock,. Episode 293 “Women Do Too Much Non-Promotable Work: How To Say No More with Linda Babcock”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/women-do-too-much/  Sandra Sucher, Episode 266 “Trust: The Four Key Steps to Genuinely Build It | Sandra Sucher”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/four-key-steps-to-build-trust/     Musical Links Ella Fitzgerald “Mack The Knife” Live in Berlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vXAtVbZbkI  Jørgen Dahl Moe “Dancing in the Dark”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Qs6KvfiAY  Etta James “At Last”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-cbOl96RFM  Aretha Franklin “Respect”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOUqQt3Kg0  Sam Cooke “A Change is Gonna Come”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEBlaMOmKV4  Adele “Someone Like You”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLQl3WQQoQ0  Beethoven "Moonlight Sonata": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4591dCHe_sE   

We all know someone who believes in conspiracy theories and we wish we could change their mind. It is possible. There are techniques that can work to transform how people think. But what we love about our conversation with David McRaney is that he adds in a Step 0 to the process and asks “why do you want to change their mind?”    Are you open to changing your own mind? If you have any interest in changing someone else’s mind, you should be open to changing your own mind too. To effectively collaborate with others and compassionately explore differences in opinion, we need to accept that our minds too can be changed.   We are delighted to welcome our esteemed guest David McRaney to this, our 300th episode of Behavioral Grooves Podcast! David takes a fascinating dive into why exactly we hold our beliefs, the science behind each of us seeing the world through slightly different lenses, and the stark reality that truth is tribal. While this is a long episode of Behavioral Grooves, you may just find yourself wanting to listen again as David’s detailed explanations are mind-blowing.    David McRaney is a science journalist and creator of the podcast You Are Not So Smart which explores self delusion and motivated reasoning. His excellent new book (coming out June 2022), “How Minds Change: The Surprising Science of Belief, Opinion, and Persuasion” carefully unravels the science and personal experience of transformed thinking.    Remember the dress that divided social media a few years ago; was it blue and black or white and gold? David explains exactly why some of us saw it differently and adds a new experiment about perception to the mix - crocs and socks!    Conversations like David’s are the reason we produce Behavioral Grooves Podcast. It is a labor of love for us, and so, we really appreciate any financial support our listeners can provide, through our Patreon page. All donations help us continue the work of producing the podcast weekly. If donating isn’t an option for you, don’t worry, you can write us a podcast review which helps promote our show to other listeners. Thank you.   Topics (4:18) Welcome and speed round questions.  (11:18) How minds change vs. how to change minds. (14:35) How is elaboration different from learning?  (27:27) Mini Grooving Session on the difference between beliefs, opinions and attitudes. (34:09) Why do you want to change someone’s mind? (41:03) The moment David realized he should question why, not just how to change minds. (52:55) Mini Grooving Session on why to change minds. (57:27) Why some see the dress as gold & white and some see it as blue & black. (1:18:28) Mini Grooving Session on the dress and the crocs. (1:22:15) Truth is tribal.  (1:35:33) Mini Grooving Session on having a social safety net. (1:40:38) What was the catalyst for David becoming interested in conspiracy theories? (1:46:19) How to get people off the conspiratorial loop? (1:51:23) What musical artists would David take to a desert island?   © 2022  Behavioral Grooves   Links  David McRaney’s book, “How Minds Change: The Surprising Science of Belief, Opinion, and Persuasion”: https://amzn.to/3NvGMPp  David McRaney: https://www.davidmcraney.com/  You Are Not So Smart Podcast: https://youarenotsosmart.com/podcast/  Why We Fight WWII Films: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Fight  Hugo Mercier “The Enigma of Reason”: https://amzn.to/3H1UoiN  Episode 53, John Sweeney, Everything Is a Story: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/john-sweeney-everything-is-a-story/  “SURFPAD”- Exploring the roots of disagreement with crocs and socks: https://blog.pascallisch.net/exploring-the-roots-of-disagreement-with-crocs-and-socks/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=exploring-the-roots-of-disagreement-with-crocs-and-socks  Wallisch, Pascal & Karlovich, Michael. (2019). Disagreeing about Crocs and socks: Creating profoundly ambiguous color displays: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335127865_Disagreeing_about_Crocs_and_socks_Creating_profoundly_ambiguous_color_displays Take the crocs and socks test: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/crocPerception  The dress: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress  Episode 178, Kwame Christian On Compassionate Curiosity, Social Justice Conversations, and Cinnamon Toast Crunch: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/kwame-christian-on-compassionate-curiosity-social-justice-conversations-and-cinnamon-toast-crunch/  Change blindness: https://youarenotsosmart.com/2009/11/06/change-blindness/    Musical Links  Radiohead “No Surprises”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5CVsCnxyXg  Colin Stetson “Spindrift”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJHr2DlRog8   

What if we were so optimistic, nothing ever felt like an obstacle, only an opportunity? As an unapologetic optimist, Patreon page. If donating isn’t an option for you, don’t worry, you can write us a podcast review which will help promote our show to other listeners. Thank you. Topics (4:07) Welcome and speed round questions. (7:06) Should we rewrite the American constitution? (11:17) Paul is affected by SIPO. What is it? (15:14) Going from hating himself to loving himself. (19:32) How can we transform our neuroplasticity? (25:24) Love all, serve all. (27:58) Four global initiatives Paul is involved in. (29:52) How climate transformation is possible. (36:49) Paul’s travel to 62 countries and how it's influenced his musical taste. (43:18) An optimistic Grooving session with Kurt and Tim. © 2022  Behavioral Grooves   Links Dr. Paul Zeitz: www.drpaulzeitz.org   Opinion Science Podcast: https://opinionsciencepodcast.com/  Alicia Keys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_Keys  Desmond Tutu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Tutu  Dr. Paul Zeitz's books: "Waging Optimism; Ushering in a New Era of Justice: Part 1: Ensuring the Survival and Flourishing of Humanity": https://amzn.to/3rZcsmC "Waging Justice: A Doctor's Journey to Speak Truth and Be Bold": https://amzn.to/3IJPQxm Global Carbon Removal Partnership: https://www.carbonremovalpartnership.net/  Julie Battilana, Episode 288, “The Steps Needed To Empower the Powerless”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/steps-to-empower-the-powerless/  John A. List, Episode 296, Fail to Scale: Why Good Research Doesn’t Always Make Great Policy: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/fail-to-scale-john-a-list/  Alia Crum: https://profiles.stanford.edu/alia-crum  Shawn Anchor, “The Happiness Advantage: The Seven Principles of Positive Psychology That Fuel Success and Performance at Work”: https://amzn.to/3NPMrQ4  Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves   Musical Links Robert Goulet “The Impossible Dream”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5H7lZMuUCM  Nina Simone “Consummation”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is-gdWIBgHo Flavors of Gratefulness – 120 versions of Modah Ani: https://www.rabbishefagold.com/hebrew_chant/modah_ani_app/ Shulem “Avinu Malkeinu”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27HaHpaFEC8&ab_channel=ShulemVEVO