Being Liminal

Liminality is about existing in transition, where uncertainty and ambiguity dominate. Innovation, at its core, is a liminal activity—organisations step away from established norms to explore new futures. But how comfortable are businesses with this uncertainty?In this episode, Richard Walzer joins us to discuss:* Why innovation is inherently liminal—leaving the known to explore possible futures* The pendulum swing of innovation—why businesses drift between embracing and resisting change* How future-back thinking can help leaders avoid stagnation* The tension between Perform (stability) and Transform (innovation) in organizations* What Apple, Pixar, and Xerox PARC teach us about the importance of balance* How leaders can become more comfortable with uncertainty instead of reacting to itAs Martin notes: “Liminality is going to be a very constant feature.” If businesses continue to treat change as an on/off switch, are they setting themselves up for failure?Episode Highlights02:00 — Innovation as a liminal state—stepping away from the known06:00 — Why businesses get stuck between the past and the future10:00 — The pendulum swing of change—why organizations abandon innovation15:00 — The 70/20/10 rule for balancing efficiency and transformation22:00 — What Future-Back Thinking means for long-term resilience35:00 — Why leadership struggles with ambiguity and liminal decision-making50:00 — Why balance is about perpetual motion, not stability💡 “The biggest challenge we have with businesses is they are generally laser-focused on what we are doing today.” – Richard WalzerFollow Richard on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-walzer-25140715Stay Connected:- Visit www.beingliminal.com for more episodes and to learn about the podcast.- Share your feedback, suggest future guests, or pose questions for upcoming episodes by reaching out through the website.- Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review Being Liminal on your favourite podcast platform! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.beingliminal.com

A fascinating exploration of the intersection of AI and creativity reveals both potential and peril. The creation of a virtual Michael Parkinson raises questions about authenticity and emotional engagement in content. As AI-generated works become more prevalent, the risks of replacing human creativity grow. The discussion also addresses the tension between profit motives and the deeper, intrinsic value of meaningful connections in creative work. What does this mean for future generations? The episode dives deep into these pressing topics.

In the final discussion, the podcast dives into the delicate balance between sustainability and business growth amid systemic disruptions. Leaders are encouraged to embrace uncertainty while fostering resilience and adapting their approaches. The conversation highlights the significance of governance in organizational design and the interconnected risks tied to ESG investments. With personal values and roles examined, the dialogue champions bold decision-making for designers, urging them to thrive amidst the complexities of modern systems.

Explore the challenges leaders face during organizational transformation and the crucial role of design in these dynamics. Discover why companies often repeat past mistakes and how the tension between short-term wins and long-term change undermines success. Unpack the importance of a supportive culture and transparent communication for navigating change. Learn about the need for a holistic approach that sees beyond buzzwords to foster a true mindset shift across all levels. Gain insights from a real-life example of effective change management that achieved remarkable results.

Delve into the complexities of design within organizations! The conversation highlights how recent departures of senior designers reflect deeper issues in the tech industry. With a shift from strategic vision to production-focused roles, designers are struggling to be valued. Communication gaps between teams lead to misunderstandings, while cross-functional collaborations offer fresh perspectives. As the role of design evolves, designers must adapt and align their skills with business priorities to thrive in a changing landscape.

Joe Macleod, founder of AndEnd and author of 'Ends' and 'Endineering,' dives deep into the often-overlooked concept of designing for endings. He discusses how businesses excel at onboarding but frequently neglect offboarding, which can hinder customer loyalty. Joe explores consumer responsibility versus corporate accountability in product lifecycles, advocating for a shift toward sustainability. He cites examples of planned obsolescence in tech and emphasizes the need for collaboration in tackling climate challenges, promoting a planet-centered design approach.

Ben Reason, co-founder of Livework, is a trailblazer in service design and explores how design impacts the Anthropocene. He discusses the importance of local governance and decentralized approaches to tackle ecological challenges. The conversation touches on the evolution of design in a digital age, emphasizing collaboration between designers and engineers. Ben highlights the need to shift power dynamics and engage communities in regenerative practices while considering the complex interplay of innovation, sustainability, and systemic change.

Bethany Jarroussié, a design leader at BP, shares her unique journey through the unpredictable world of transformation. She highlights the critical need for psychological safety in teams, enabling them to embrace discomfort and learn through experience. Bethany discusses the synergy between design and change management, emphasizing empathetic leadership. Her insights on authenticity, vulnerability, and personal growth illuminate how leaders can effectively guide their teams through complex changes while fostering an inclusive environment.

In this episode Brian and I are in conversation with Ola Gwozdz, a listener who reached out to share her perspective and we realised we just had to bring into our exploration.  Ola helps us delve into the intricacies of identity, power dynamics, and the transformative potential of liminal spaces.  She describes herself as a Data Philosopher, a concept and articulation I find fascinating – using data not just as raw information but a medium or lens to understand and interpret deeper societal and human issues, behaviours and global societal shifts.  She philosophises about the implications, meanings and narratives that data can reveal.  We discuss the challenges posed by some of those global shifts like AI and climate change, Ola reflects on the feelings of lost control experienced by many in today's rapidly changing landscape. Yet, amidst the complexities, she finds a glimmer of hope in the quiet voices championing new ways of thinking. she emphasizes the significance of timing in the emergence of new ideas and the role of identity in various communities  Our conversation also touches on the irony for her and for Brian & I of exploring liminal spaces, noting how such exploration can turn our own personal journey into a reflection of those very spaces.  This conversation really digs into the changing nature of leadership and the power of liminality – we’re really looking forward to hearing what you got out of this conversation… Links:Ola Gwozdz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olagwozdz/Being Liminal Is a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadley as they develop the content that will form their new book: Being Liminal. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.Podcast Website: www.beingliminal.com Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDoMartin Dowson on LinkedInBrian Hoadley on LinkedIn This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.beingliminal.com

Do you ever wonder how your organization can embrace change and thrive in the face of uncertainty? Join us on a journey into the world of regenerative design and leadership with our guest, Andy Thornton, the Head of Regenerative Design at the RSA - The Royal Society of Arts, Commerce, and Manufacturing. We explore design and systems thinking, discuss the importance of courage in leadership, and peel back the layers of an ever-evolving organisational landscape. Andy's expertise paints a fresh and crucial perspective on these subject matters, which is pushing the boundaries of what Brian and I are exploring in our research for Liminal Leaders.Our conversation takes us through some of the intricacies of systems thinking and its pivotal role in driving paradigm shifts. Andy references Donella Meadows' leverage points and discusses how to effectively intervene in a system for maximum impact. Andy highlights how the RSA has molded its vision through research, influential connections, and experimentation, and how design thinking can guide us through the uncertain waters of change. We dive into the challenge of getting people to leap into the unknown and how design thinking can be instrumental in navigating this complexity. As we journey further, we dissect the role and evolution of design throughout history, its impact on business and society, and its potential in shaping ethical outcomes. The conversation opens up discussions on the challenges and opportunities in regenerative business, and how design can be used to alter narratives for a more prospering society. This episode concludes with some thought-provoking discussions on the importance of leadership in driving change and stepping into the unknown. So, gear up for an enlightening discourse on regenerative business models and systems thinking that promises to challenge and stretch your perspective on leadership and design.Being LiminalIs a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadely as they develop the content that will form their new book: Being Liminal. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.Podcast Website: www.beingliminal.com Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo?si=1ffd9afda4594020Martin Dowson on LinkedInBrian Hoadley on LinkedIn This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.beingliminal.com