The Convocation Unscripted

Just this week, Trump and his administration have shrugged off the brutal 2018 murder of a Washington Post Journalist and welcomed the person the CIA identified as its mastermind to the White House, called for the death penalty and hanging for six democratic sitting members of Congress, and—over at the Coast Guard under the Department of Homeland Security--downgraded nooses and swastikas from hate symbols to “potentially divisive” objects. We talk about the positive correlations between this increasingly violent rhetoric and Christian nationalism, and the inexplicable tendency of some prominent journalists to refuse to acknowledge the reality of this movement or the scholarship supporting its existence and its threat to democracy. We close with an off-beat segment on the rise of AI-powered chatbots that purport to let Christians text with Jesus. But which Jesus has AI trained itself to emulate? All is not what it seems here.Check out Jemar's new podcast: The Justice Briefing - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-justice-briefing-with-dr-jemar-tisby/id1460240056Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones...Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

This week, Diana was on the road promoting her new book, A Beautiful Year, but Robby, Kristin, and Jemar took advantage of all being in Washington, DC, together and recorded this special episode from PRRI’s new office. We talked about our disappointment at the capitulation of a handful of Democratic officials, who voted with Republicans to end the record-breaking government shutdown—without securing much in exchange. At best the deal only temporarily restores SNAP funding and reopens the government for six weeks, and it secured no concrete assurances on government funding to protect Americans who depend on Obamacare against skyrocketing health insurance premiums. And worse, Democrats seemed to offer no strong moral case for their actions. We also talked about the bombshell partial release of a trove of emails from the Epstein files, which seemed to show that Trump knew about the pedophilia sex ring that Jeffrey Epstein was running for powerful men. We noted that the Epstein files are creating rare fissures within the MAGA movement, especially since Trump encouraged the conspiracy theories of the QAnon movement during his campaign. But it is still to early to know whether either condoning or failing to protect children from pedophiles would be a grave enough sin for the MAGA faithful to break with Trump, or whether they will continue to find ways to rationalize his immoral behavior.

After a month of heavy travel, the Convocation team was all back together for our live show, which we do the first Thursday of every month. This week—for two weeks in a row—we brought mostly good news to the conversation. We talked about the most important lesson from the blue wave 2025 election results: that an authoritarian future is not inevitable. Just one year into the Trump presidency, there are signs that everyday Americans are stepping up to say that Trump’s lawlessness, chaos, cruelty, and corruption are not in fact what they want in a president. In Virginia, for example, while 80% of white evangelicals continued to vote Republican, 7% of 2024 Trump voters flipped and supported the democratic candidate for governor, Abigail Spanberger. The exit poll breaks by race and gender showed that majorities of every subgroup voted for Spanberger except white men. Latinos in Virginia and New Jersey, who moved toward Trump in 2024 largely over economic concerns, moved strongly back into the democratic column because of both continued economic stress and objections to ICE and harsh immigration enforcement. And importantly, people participated in the democratic process. Turnout was high for an off-year election, which was conducted freely and fairly. We spent the last half of the call taking questions from the live audience.

The group discussed Robert's manuscript feedback from his editor and Diana's experience promoting her book "A Beautiful Year" at events, leading to a decision to focus the podcast segment on exploring Robert's book themes rather than PRI studies. The panel shared holiday traditions and decorations, particularly focusing on interfaith celebrations and the liturgical calendar. The main discussion centered on Diana's new book "A Beautiful Year," which examines alternative narratives to Christian nationalism through the lens of the liturgical calendar, with participants exploring its themes of hope, harmony, and peace while discussing its academic and theological foundations.Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones...Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

This week, we spent most of the show talking about some important signs that the resistance to Trump’s authoritarianism is finding its feet. This week MIT and eight other universities stood together and refused to sign agreements to allow the Trump administration control over their admissions, research, and teaching in exchange for preferential treatment in disbursement of government research funding. Over at the Department of Defense, all five major broadcast news organizations—including Pete Hegseth’s previous home Fox News (must have been awkward!)—refused to sign a document that would give the government control over stories they wrote about the military and DOD. While their reporters were required to turn in their security badges, they vowed to continued their critical reporting from outside the building. There continues, of course, to be some disturbing news, such as the chilling racist, homophobic, sexually violent, and antisemitic language uncovered among a large, ongoing Young Republicans’ private group chat. We wrapped by talking about the importance of the upcoming No Kings rallies scheduled all over the country.Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones...Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

This week, we discuss the shameful Christian celebration of ICE brutality and violence in the wake of ICE agents shooting Rev. David Black, pastor of First Presbyterian Church in Chicago, in the head with pepper balls—while he was praying and inviting ICE officers to repent of their complicity in violence. We noted that the Department of Homeland Security has explicitly been combining Bible verses and Christian imagery with violent imagery and memes, part of a dangerous broader trend within evangelical circles to turn Christianity away from love and empathy and toward violence. We also spent 30 minutes responding to a wide range of questions from those of you who attended the live webinar.Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones...Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Secretary of Defense (not calling it "War" unless Congress changes it) called a meeting of the U.S. military's top generals from around the world. In it, he spoke of what he called the "warrior ethos." Far from building on the military's vaunted traditions of honor and service, Hegseth harped on how the military became "woke" and how he didn't want any more "beardos" (men with beards) in the military. He had a lot to say about the size of people's waists and physical fitness. As usual, the hosts--Diana, Kristin, and Jemar--find historical and religious connections. We talk about the creation of the white evangelical vision of masculinity, the reversal of the mythology of Robert E. Lee as the "reluctant warrior," and Christian masculinity in pop culture. We also talk about the latest mass shooting at a Church of Latter-Day Saints congregation in Michigan. Lot's of bad news, but also some reasons to celebrate that we talk about to round out the show. 

Explore how historical patterns can inform our present and future. Diana shares insights from her experience with Northern Ireland's peace process, emphasizing the importance of shared goals over mere depolarization. The discussion includes the role of secret negotiations and disarmament in fostering political inclusion. Historical contingency is highlighted as a source of hope, suggesting that the future is open to change. Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation on navigating deep divisions and protecting democracy.

On this episode, the Convocation Unscripted team talks about the importance of truth and reality amid the whirlwind of debates about political violence in the aftermath of the horrific murder of Charlie Kirk and the subsequent attacks on free speech, such as the suspension of Jimmie Kimmel by ABC. While acknowledging that all political violence is abhorrent, we also look at the facts about the actual shape of political violence in the US; the government’s own official reports—recently purged from the Department of Justice website—found that “since 1990, far-right extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated homicides than far-left or radical Islamist extremists.” We also discuss the kind of response to Kirk’s assassination that we wish we would have heard from the president and other Republican leaders—one that focused on condemning all political violence and calling us to our better selves rather than fanning the flames and using it as an opportunity to infringe on the Constitutional right to free speech. As Christians, there has never been a time when we need a theology that refuses to separate people into good and evil categories, one that foregrounds grace and love for enemies. We close with an urgent message for all to stand up against political violence and in defense of free speech, while we still have the freedom to do so.

The hosts dive into how to navigate the constant negativity in today's world, sharing personal strategies for cultivating hope and resilience. They discuss the real-life stories of brave women fighting against human trafficking and the moral complexities of benefiting from societal oppression. Engaging in political conversations is also emphasized, highlighting the importance of personal narratives. The conversation touches on the role of religious institutions in societal change and the global rise of authoritarianism, encouraging listeners to reflect and engage. It's a thought-provoking exploration of current challenges and solutions.