The Convocation Unscripted

Show Notes: This episode is a whirlwind! With critical headlines stacking up by the day, we sprint through urgent stories shaping our moment: --South African President Ramaphosa’s visit to the White House, --the Supreme Court’s shocking decision on religious schools in Oklahoma, --Pete Hegseth’s dominionist prayer rally, --a tragic shooting in DC raising tensions around antisemitism and Zionism, --and the political targeting of Harvard and international students. Plus, we recap the joy and connection we found at The Convocation Unscripted retreat.Like we said, a whirlwind—but it’s honest, grounded, and deeply necessary.P.S. Here's the LINK to Lisa Sharon Harper's article we reference in the episode.Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerbass.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones.bsky.socialFollow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

On this episode of The Convocation Unscripted, we discussed the breaking news of the historic appointment of Cardinal Robert Francis Prevost, who chose the name Pope Leo XIV, as the first Pope from the United States. We expressed relief and hope at this unexpected appointment. The early signs are that Prevost--a close associate of Pope Francis who has duel U.S. and Peruvian citizenship and spent more than half his career as a missionary in Peru--will offer a strong moral and theological stance against abuses of power and stand for the dignity of all, particularly immigrants and the poor. We also noted the potential political implications of Pope Leo XIV's appointment, particularly his recent rebuke of J.D. Vance’s distortion of Catholic theology related to “the order of loves” (Ordo Amoris), which Vance attempted to use to justify the Trump administration’s anti-immigrant rhetoric and policies. “JD Vance is wrong,” Prevost posted on his X account. “Jesus doesn’t ask us to rank our love for others.”Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerbass.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones.bsky.socialFollow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

The Convocation Unscripted team—three historians and a sociologist who study religion in America—launched this podcast the spring before the 2024 election. After Trump’s election we stepped up the frequency, with a commitment to providing weekly research, analysis, and insights through Trump’s first 100 days. In this capstone episode, we reflect on the results of a new PRRI poll, which illuminates the yawning racial and religious divides in America that Trump has exploited during his rise to power, with a focus on the white Christians (principally white evangelical Protestants but also majorities of white non-evangelical Protestants and white Catholics) who put Trump into the White House and who continue to provide support and moral cover for even his most unlawful, cruel, and racist policies. But we also note some hopeful signs. At 100 days, Trump’s approval rating is underwater and lower than any other president not named Trump at this stage in his term since World War II. Most Americans oppose his harsh plans like militarized internment camps for undocumented immigrants, tariffs, and most see through the farce of his so-called “Anti-Christian Bias Task Force.” And a slim majority also now believe Trump is a dangerous dictator whose power should be limited before he destroys American democracy. We also reflect on the ways particularly white Christians who see the dangers Trump represents to our faith and nation can speak out in our churches and local communities.Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

On this episode, the Convocation Unscripted team reflects on Pope Francis's impact on the Catholic Church and the world. The participants reflect on Francis's unconventional approach to the papacy, including his choice of name, simple lifestyle, and compassionate focus on the poor and marginalized. They highlight his efforts to make the Church more inclusive, particularly towards LGBTQ+ individuals and immigrants. In the second half of the conversation, the team draws attention to a DOJ press release summarizing the first meeting of the Trump's Anti-Christian Bias Task Force, arguing that it misrepresents Christianity and distorts facts to claim persecution. They analyze specific examples from the press release, such as fines against Christian universities for lying to students or failing to report sexual assaults, which are distorted and presented as anti-Christian bias.Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

This week Jews are observing the eight days of Passover, while Christians are observing Holy Week leading up to Easter Sunday. In this episode, The Convocation Unscripted team (minus Jemar who is on the road) discuss the parallels between the crucifixion of Jesus and the current political moment, particularly the abduction and disappearance of Kilmar Abrega Garcia without due process. We express concern about the lack of action from Congress resisting Trump’s attacks on the rule of law and democratic norms and the need to move beyond partisanship to save our democracy. On the Democratic side of the aisle, we express frustration that most have been reluctant to act beyond the normal expectations of their office; but we give thankful shout outs to senators Cory Booker, Chris Van Holland, AOC, Bernie Sanders for their actions. On the Republican side, we acknowledge and appreciate Sen. Lisa Murkowski’s recent confession of fear for her own safety, but we also note that if just four sitting Republican senators would even temporarily side with the 45 Democratic and 2 Independent senators, they could stop the worst of Trump’s actions and halt our nation’s slide into fascism. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones...Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

The hosts share uplifting experiences from the road, highlighting their commitment to resist attacks on democracy. They discuss the importance of religious freedom and civic engagement amid economic turmoil. Conversations touch on the impact of religious rhetoric in politics, especially regarding authoritarianism. Recent book bans ignite a call for academic freedom, while the need for inclusivity in faith practices is emphasized. Together, they inspire action and resilience in challenging times.

In our latest LIVE episode of The Convocation Inscription, we all report from our experiences from the road over the last two weeks—from California, Indiana, Tennessee, and New York. We’re sensing that all of the destruction unleashed by the Trump administration is finally sinking in to a broader swath of Americans, including folks in predominantly white Christian spaces. People are beginning to wake up, not only to the incompetence, but to the critical threat Trump and his presidency is to our pluralistic democracy. We urge people to understand the purges of websites, databases, and exhibits of the lives and work of women, LGBTQ Americans, and Americans of color for what they are—the modern day equivalent of a massive book burning. And we give a grateful shout out to Sen. Cory Booker, who took the record from segregationist Strom Thurman, for the longest speech given in the Senate in our nation’s history—this time calling for a more inclusive vision of America. Finally, we urge people to channel their anxiety, anger, frustration into action by looking for local ways to be loud and to use whatever resources they have now, before it gets even harder, to protect democracy.Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerbass.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones.bsky.socialFollow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

In this episode, the Convocation Unscripted team takes a break from the daily outrages coming from the Trump administration to talk about the work for racial justice, healing, and repair that is taking place in unexpected places. Jemar talked about his recent travels to Jackson, Mississippi, and Montgomery and Selma, Alabama. Robby talked about his recent trips to speak at First Baptist Church of Richmond, Virginia, where his book White Too Long was chosen as a city-side book read for Black History Month, and to the Zacchaeus Foundation in Little Rock, Arkansas, which is facilitating reparations payments from white residents and historically white churches to support Black nonprofits in Northwest Arkansas. Diana is also about to be on the road for much of April, speaking with churches and groups who are continuing the work of social and racial justice, even against the prevailing winds. We wrapped the episode with a tribute to Roger Freet, a literary agent to and friend of Diana and Robby, who passed away this week. He was a great soul who supported so much good work in the world, and we miss him.Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerbass.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones.bsky.socialFollow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Amid the continued onslaught against our Constitutional rights by the Trump administration, Robby, Kristin, and Diana discuss the importance of focusing on “bright lines” that are being crossed. We celebrate the institutions that continue to hold courageous conversations in these challenging days, such as First Baptist Church of Richmond and St. Mary’s College in Indiana, which are hosting Robby and Kristin for public conversations. We discuss the likely illegal detaining of Mahmoud Khalil--a Palestinian recent graduate of Columbia University, U.S. green card holder, and husband of an American citizen—for speech the Trump administration did not like. We also talk about the dangers of Trump’s usurpation of power by declaring a national emergency. This emergency declaration, made without any legitimate grounds, gives Trump the power to unilaterally impose tariffs and to invoke the Alien Enemies Act, as he is likely to do shortly to institute mass deportations. Finally we talk about the heresy circulating in Christian circles that empathy is a threat to the gospel. We point out that previous purges of empathy as a Christian virtue among white Christians in America prepared the ground for the genocide of Indigenous people and the enslavement of people of African descent. We know where that road leads. We also discussed the importance of universities and churches to avoid the trap of neutrality, since, as our colleague Jemar always reminds us, justice takes sides.

Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerbass.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones.bsky.socialFollow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.comRobert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.netDiana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.comKristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.comJemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com