
Unseen Leadership
Unseen Leadership, hosted by Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter, explores the unseen stories that have made leaders who they are today. This is a podcast for young leaders to learn from those ahead of them by exploring the early days of their leadership, understanding the mistakes they made, and identifying the habits that shaped them. All to help you lead in the future. This podcast will be featuring guests like Carey Nieuwhof, Jamie Ivey, Clay Scroggins, Jackie Hill Perry, Levi Lusko, and many more.
Latest episodes

Dec 18, 2019 • 42min
Unseen Leadership Recommended Books
One of the most common requests we get on social media is if we could create a running list of books that are referenced during each episode. So here you go!
Unseen Leadership Episode 22: Art Rainer on The Importance of Relationships
The First 90 Days by Michael D. Watkins
Leading Change by John Kotter
God and Money by Gregory Baumer and John Cortines
Unseen Leadership Episode 21: Christine and Nick Caine on Growing as an Emotionally Healthy Leader
The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero
Boundaries by Henry Cloud and John Townsend
Necessary Endings by Henry Cloud
Unseen Leadership Episode 20: Robby Gallaty on The Importance of Discipleship
Lectures to My Students by Charles Spurgeon
Emotionally Healthy Leader by Pete Scazzero
Garden City by John Mark Comer
Unseen Leadership Episode 19: Ed Newton on Slowing Down Your Leadership
Visioneering by Andy Stanley
Choosing to Cheat by Andy Stanley
Pursuit of Holiness by Jerry Bridges
Atomic Habits by James Clear
The 100X Leader by Steve Cockram
Unseen Leadership Episode 18: Ron Edmondson on Leading Where God Has Placed You
The Mythical Leader by Ron Edmondson
Unseen Leadership Episode 17: J.D. Greear on Doing Meaningful Things with Awesome People
Gaining by Losing by J.D. Greear
Good to Great by Jim Collins
Confronting Christianity by Rebecca McLaughlin
Destiny of the Republic by Candice Millard
The Curse of Oak Island by Randall Sullivan
Hero of the Empire by Candice Millard
Unseen Leadership Episode 16: Matt Carter on How to Delegate Leadership
The Long Walk Home by Matt Carter
The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership by John Maxwell
Center Church by Tim Keller
The Christ-Centered Expositor by Tony Merida
Unseen Leadership Episode 15: Kevin Queen on Understanding Your Calling
Reappearing Church by Mark Sayers
Leadership and Self Deception by The Arbinger Institute
Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink
Unseen Leadership Episode 14: Brent Crowe on Learning from Others
Linchpin by Seth Godin
The Color of Compromise by Jemar Tisby
Moments ’til Midnight by Brent Crowe
Unseen Leadership Episode 13: Brad Lomenick on Healthy Ambition
When by Daniel Pink
H3 Leadership by Brad Lomenick
The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership by John Maxwell
The Next Generation Leader by Andy Stanley
Entre Leadership by Dave Ramsey
The Power of Moments by Chip and Dan Heath
Deep Work by Cal Newport
Unseen Leadership Episode 12: Jenni Catron on Self Leadership
The 4 Dimensions of Extraordinary Leadership by Jenni Catron
Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership by Ruth Haley Barton
Spiritual Leadership by Oswald Sanders
Emotional Intelligence 2.0 by Travis Bradberry
Deep Work by Cal Newport
Unseen Leadership Episode 11: Bob Russell on Healthy Conflict
After 50 Years of Ministry by Bob Russell
Conformed to His Image by Ken Boa
Too Great a Temptation by Joel Gregory
The American Miracle by Michael Medved
Unseen Leadership Episode 10: Annie F. Downs on Leading Where You Flourish
Remember God by Annie F. Downs
Garden City by John Mark Comer
The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Pete Scazzero
What If It is True by Charles Martin
Unseen Leadership Episode 9: Ben Trueblood on Leading as a Student Pastor
Read for Your Life by Pat Williams
Garden City: Work, Rest, and the Art of Being Human by John Mark Comer
Good to Great by Jim Collins
Unseen Leadership Episode 8: Josh Patterson on Learning from Failure
What Leaders Really Do by John Kotter
Overcoming the Dark Side of Leadership by Gary L. McIntosh and Samuel D. Rima
Daring Greatly by Brene Brown
Creature of the Word by Eric Geiger, Matt Chandler, and Josh Patterson
Unseen Leadership Episode 7: Kevin Peck on Developing Leaders in the Church
Designed to Lead by Eric Geiger and Kevin Peck
Checklist Manifesto by Atul Gawande
Playing God by Andy Crouch
Unseen Leadership Episode 6: Louie Giglio on Taking the Next Step
Not Forsaken by Louie Giglio
The Next Right Thing by Emily P. Freeman
So Send I You by Oswald Chambers

Oct 23, 2019 • 42min
Unseen Leadership Episode 22: Art Rainer on The Importance of Relationships
In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Art Rainer who is the Vice President for Institutional Advancement at SEBTS and author of The Money Challenge. This past summer, he also released a series of children’s books called The Secret Slide Money Club.
During their conversation, they discuss how to understand your calling, focus on relationships, and handle your personal finances.
QUOTES FROM EPISODE 22:
“One of the mistakes young leaders can fall into is not connecting with the older leaders.”
“We need to not neglect spending time with people who are not like us and are older.”
“Too many young leaders give up way too soon.”
“Financial health is an end in and of itself.”
“The goal of financial healthy should be able to give and live generously.”
“When you talk to those who are geared toward pursuing materialistic gain, they are often times incredibly financially healthy but they are still incredibly miserable.”
“It is so important for future leaders to dive into books and study and read about the great leaders ahead of them.”
RESOURCES MENTIONED
The First 90 Days by Michael D. Watkins
Leading Change by John Kotter
God and Money by Gregory Baumer and John Cortines
This Episode's Sponsor: Every church must be equipped to respond well in the initial stages of learning about instances of sexual, physical, or emotional abuse. That is why the Southern Baptist Convention, Lifeway, and ERLC partnered together to create Becoming a Church that Cares Well for the Abused. This training curriculum of a handbook and 13 videos brings together top experts from various fields to help volunteers and leaders understand and implement the best practices for handling the variety of abuse scenarios at church, school, or ministry. You can access this free training at ChurchCares.com.

Oct 16, 2019 • 45min
Unseen Leadership Episode 21: Christine and Nick Caine on Growing as an Emotionally Healthy Leader
In this special episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast and 5 Leadership Questions podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Todd Adkins are joined by Christine and Nick Caine who are founders of the The A21 Campaign.
During their conversation, they discuss how to focus on developing others, balancing delegation and excellence, and growing as an emotionally healthy leader.
QUOTES FROM EPISODE 21:
“We should always be focusing on developing pipelines and pathways so other people can be developed.”
“If you are just going to do, you have already put a limit, a ceiling, and a lid on your leadership.”
“We should always be thinking, how is this sustainable without me being the one to sustain it.”
“I would take willingness to grow over giftedness and talent every day of the week because you can work with that.”
“You have to inspect to make sure you get what you expect.”
“Leaders need to be careful not to drive too hard in order to get an outcome at the sake of people. We have to remember we are working with people, and God loves people.”
“The deeper I allow the Holy Spirit to do healing in me, the more effective leader I become.”
“My gift quickly took me to a place that my character would not have kept me if God did not do a work in me.”
“If the spotlight on you is brighter than the light of God within you, it is going to destroy you.”
“The degree to which your heart is healthy is the degree to which you will remain a healthy leader.”
“Being a healthy leader is the best gift you can give your team and your family.”
RESOURCES MENTIONED
The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero
Boundaries by Henry Cloud and John Townsend
Necessary Endings by Henry Cloud
5LQ Episode 116: Pete Scazzero
This Episode's Sponsor: Every church must be equipped to respond well in the initial stages of learning about instances of sexual, physical, or emotional abuse. That is why the Southern Baptist Convention, Lifeway, and ERLC partnered together to create Becoming a Church that Cares Well for the Abused. This training curriculum of a handbook and 13 videos brings together top experts from various fields to help volunteers and leaders understand and implement the best practices for handling the variety of abuse scenarios at church, school, or ministry. You can access this free training at ChurchCares.com.

Oct 9, 2019 • 49min
Unseen Leadership Episode 20: Robby Gallaty on The Importance of Discipleship
In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Robby Gallaty who is the Senior Pastor of Long Hollow Baptist Church, the founder of Replicate Ministries, host of the Making Disciples podcast, and the author of several books, including Growing Up.
During their conversation, they discuss the importance of discipleship, how to empower others in ministry, and dealing with pride.
QUOTES FROM EPISODE 20:
“Even through the difficult times and the good times, God never wastes a hurt and he never wastes an opportunity in our past. He is going to use those experiences to refine us.”
“The ministry you are leading will only grow to the capacity you will allow it.”
“You need to yield to the Holy Spirit for him to work in you to work through you.”
“Ministry is received, not achieved.”
“Steward what you’ve been given with excellence and trust God with the rest.”
“Sadly in ministry, we’ve become managers of spreadsheets, not shepherds of sheep.”
“Young leaders overestimate what can be done in the short term and they underestimate what God can do in the long run.”
“Pride’s favorite mask is humility.”
“Your spiritual maturity will only grow to the level of your emotional health.”
“For many of us, our calendar runs us, we don’t run our calendar.”
RESOURCES MENTIONED
Lectures to My Students by Charles Spurgeon
Emotionally Healthy Leader by Pete Scazzero
Garden City by John Mark Comer
The Light Phone
This Episode's Sponsor: Every church must be equipped to respond well in the initial stages of learning about instances of sexual, physical, or emotional abuse. That is why the Southern Baptist Convention, Lifeway, and ERLC partnered together to create Becoming a Church that Cares Well for the Abused. This training curriculum of a handbook and 13 videos brings together top experts from various fields to help volunteers and leaders understand and implement the best practices for handling the variety of abuse scenarios at church, school, or ministry. You can access this free training at ChurchCares.com.

Oct 2, 2019 • 48min
Unseen Leadership Episode 19: Ed Newton on Slowing Down Your Leadership
In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Ed Newton who is the Senior Pastor at Community Bible Church in San Antonio, Texas, which is a diverse congregation with about 27,000 members.
During their conversation, they discuss how to focus on relational equity, slow down in your leadership, and deal with criticism.
QUOTES FROM EPISODE 19:
“Leadership is more than a title, it is an assignment, and that assignment changes.”
“One of the biggest mistakes for me was trying to go too fast, too soon.”
“One of the challenges of a leader is taking what is so clearly seen to you and making that visible to other people as well.”
“Culture eats strategy for breakfast.”
“Sometimes as leaders, we become more concerned about the success of an organization than the health of an organization.”
“One of my biggest misconceptions was thinking that everybody would love me.”
“We must learn to receive a compliment or even a point of criticism in my head but not that go and destroy my heart.”
“Eat the meat and spit out the bones when it comes to criticism.”
“If we are better today than we were yesterday, we are winning.”
“No one is called to be a Lone Ranger in ministry.”
“We have to ask the question what is it like to sit across the table from ourself.”
“Leadership begins with self awareness. You cannot lead someone else if you cannot lead yourself.”
“In order to reproduce your life is someone else, you have got to have a life.”
“The organization is only as healthy as you are.”
“Being teachable is a trophy of being captured by God’s grace.”
RESOURCES MENTIONED
Visioneering by Andy Stanley
Choosing to Cheat by Andy Stanley
Pursuit of Holiness by Jerry Bridges
Atomic Habits by James Clear
The 100X Leader by Steve Cockram
This Episode's Sponsor: Every church must be equipped to respond well in the initial stages of learning about instances of sexual, physical, or emotional abuse. That is why the Southern Baptist Convention, Lifeway, and ERLC partnered together to create Becoming a Church that Cares Well for the Abused. This training curriculum of a handbook and 13 videos brings together top experts from various fields to help volunteers and leaders understand and implement the best practices for handling the variety of abuse scenarios at church, school, or ministry. You can access this free training at ChurchCares.com.

Sep 25, 2019 • 40min
Unseen Leadership Episode 18: Ron Edmondson on Leading Where God Has Placed You
In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Ron Edmondson who is the CEO of Leadership Network, a former pastor, and author of the book The Mythical Leader.
During their conversation, they discuss how to lead where God has placed you, empower those in the pews, and create buy-in from your team.
QUOTES FROM EPISODE 18:
“Wherever God has allowed you to be, that is where he desires to use you.”
“If you have certain skill sets that the church can use, then raise your hand and volunteer.”
“As a senior leader, there is a weight that you carry that no one else will understand until they sit where you sit.”
“You cannot expect people to own your world as much as you do.”
“We don’t always get a seat at the table, but we should always be looking for a seat at the table in a humble way.”
“If God calls you into something, he is going to equip you for it.”
“One of the biggest myths of leadership is if I am hearing no one complain, everyone must be happy.”
“We need to be quicker to admit when we do not know something.”
“One of the things leaders struggle most with is self doubt.”
RESOURCES MENTIONED
The Mythical Leader by Ron Edmondson

Sep 18, 2019 • 31min
Unseen Leadership Episode 17: J.D. Greear on Doing Meaningful Things with Awesome People
In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by JD Greear who is the pastor of The Summit Church, President of the Southern Baptist Convention, host of the Ask Me Anything podcast, and author of many books including his latest Above All.
During their conversation, they discuss the need for surrounding yourself with great people, practical ways to create a healthy culture, and making mistakes slowly.
QUOTES FROM EPISODE 17:
“You don’t get leadership bestowed on you by a position, and if you do, those end up becoming the worst kind of leaders.”
“It is the people you surround yourself with that determines both the quality of your ministry and life.”
“Do meaningful things with awesome people.”
“Make your biggest mistakes slowly.”
“Pastors consistently overestimate what they can do in a church in 5 years and they underestimate what they can accomplish in 20 years.”
“Culture eats strategy for breakfast.”
“When I’m sick of saying it, our staff has just started to hear it. And when they are finally sick of hearing it, that means the congregational probably just heard it for the first time.”
“It shouldn’t be who is in the room that determines a decision, but instead, it should be our values.”
“Fame is making yourself accessible to a bunch of people you don’t really care about at the expense of those you do care about.”
RESOURCES MENTIONED
Gaining by Losing by J.D. Greear
Good to Great by Jim Collins
Confronting Christianity by Rebecca McLaughlin
Destiny of the Republic by Candice Millard
The Curse of Oak Island by Randall Sullivan
Hero of the Empire by Candice Millard

Sep 11, 2019 • 39min
Unseen Leadership Episode 16: Matt Carter on How to Delegate Leadership
In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Matt Carter who is the Pastor of Preaching and Vision at The Austin Stone Community Church and is author or co-author of several books, including his latest The Long Walk Home.
During their conversation, they discuss how to delegate leadership to others, how to live on mission, and how to strive for excellence with grace.
QUOTES FROM EPISODE 16:
“I decided from day one of the Austin Stone that we wanted to have a multi teacher model, and that I wasn’t going to be the only guy that preached.”
“All leaders need to realize we have limitations. There are things we are good at and things that we are not good at.”
“The whole idea behind the law of the lid is that an organization will only grow to the level of the capacity of the senior leader.”
“If I had never given away power, influence, and leadership, I think we would have grown to a certain level and the growth would have stopped.”
“I found where I was weak, gave those jobs away to others who were really good at it, and I let them run.”
“What good does it do if we are growing a church, but I am losing my wife.”
“Leadership is a pressure cooker. It takes time to learn and grow, especially in your character.”
“Churches are kind of like a bus. People get on and they ride awhile and they get off, and you can’t take it personally.”
“The best way to lead people is in gentleness and kindness like Jesus did.”
“The point of striving for excellence is to remove all the distractions that are in the way so people can place their eyes on Jesus.”
RESOURCES MENTIONED
Man Catches Flying Bird with Bare Hand
The Long Walk Home by Matt Carter
The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership by John Maxwell
Center Church by Tim Keller
The Christ-Centered Expositor by Tony Merida
Free Ministry Grid Course on Christ-Centered Exposition with Tony Merida
Your Unique Design Personality Test

Sep 4, 2019 • 47min
Unseen Leadership Episode 15: Kevin Queen on Understanding Your Calling
In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Kevin Queen who is the Lead Pastor of Cross Point Church right here in Nashville, TN.
During their conversation, they discuss how to understand your calling, wrestling with disappointing others, and leading with humility.
QUOTES FROM EPISODE 15:
“Leadership is disappointing people at a rate that they can stand.”
“We cannot please everyone and follow the call of God.”
“Many a young man wants to do great things for God, but a better aim for one's life is to do things for a great God.”
“God is uniquely wired each of us with unique gifts to lead with.”
“We can try to promote ourselves beyond our anointing, but God will never promote us beyond our anointing.”
“Humility is fleeting. As soon as you think you are humble, it is gone.”
“Once the leader speaks, the conversations is over, so let others speak before you give your answer.”
“Prayer is an acknowledgement that God is in the midst of our meeting.”
RESOURCES MENTIONED
Reappearing Church by Mark Sayers
Leadership and Self Deception by The Arbinger Institute
Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink

Aug 28, 2019 • 39min
Unseen Leadership Episode 14: Brent Crowe on Learning from Others
In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Brent Crowe who is currently serving as Vice President for Student Leadership University. He is also the author of several books including his latest, Moments 'til Midnight.
During their conversation, they discuss how to steward your influence well, how to learn from others’ experiences, and how to slow down to hear from the Lord.
QUOTES FROM EPISODE 14:
“When you steward your influence well, there’s a good chance the Lord will give you more influence, but it starts by laying any bit of influence you have down at the feet of Jesus.”
“Leadership begins at the feet of Jesus.”
“Leadership is devotional before it is practical.”
“You can never go wrong by believing the best for someone else’s future.”
“My biggest misconception was that experience was the best teacher. Someone else’s experience is your best teacher.”
“Bring an open notebook any time you get to speak with a mentor.”
“If you are always running, it does not give you time to stop and think.”
“If hustle is an idol, then it is going to consume you and you will miss the peace that comes with slowing down and hearing from the Lord.”
“Do for one what you wish you could do for everyone.”
RESOURCES MENTIONED
Linchpin by Seth Godin
The Color of Compromise by Jemar Tisby
Moments 'til Midnight by Brent Crowe
This Episode's Sponsor: With Ministry Grid’s library of over 3,500 training videos and 800 courses, it's now simpler than ever to train every volunteer and leader in your church. For the month of August, you can get unlimited access to Ministry Grid for YOUR ENTIRE CHURCH for just $399 a year. If you want to take advantage of this incredible deal, just go to ministrygrid.com/podcast.
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