
Coconut Thinking
The Coconut Thinking podcast brings educational provocateurs and practitioners in the regenerative space together to ask: what would it take to create the conditions for all life to thrive? Conversations are as diverse as the guests, but each one participates in the ecosystem, and each one questions the dominant narrative. This is a show for those who are curious about learning, systems, and contributing to the bio-collective—all life that has an interest in the healthfulness of the planet.
Latest episodes

Nov 22, 2021 • 42min
Yong Zhao: We learn to solve problems, we solve problems to learn
In this episode, I speak to Yong Zhao, Foundations Distinguished Professor in the School of Education with an appointment in the School of Business at the University of Kansas. He is also the Global Chair Professor of Education at East China Normal University, a global chair professor at the University of Bath in the U.K., and a Professorial Fellow at the Mitchell Institute for Education Policy at Victoria University, Australia.Yong Zhao has published over 100 articles and 30 books, including Reach for Greatness: Personalizable Education for all Children (2018), Counting What Counts: Reframing Education Outcomes(2016), and Never Send a Human to Do a Machine's Job: Correcting Top 5 Ed Tech Mistakes (2015).In this episode, we discuss: The need to cultivate every child's uniqueness and define success based on that uniqueness, not some external standard;How to convert our uniqueness into valuable contributions, which doesn't happen in most school systems—contributions go beyond compliance; How Entrepreneurial Product-Oriented Learning is the specificity that that might take PBL farther and deeper.If you like this episode, subscribe, leave us a rating and check us out on www.coconut-thinking.design.

Nov 8, 2021 • 33min
Ginny Whitelaw: Zen and the art of biophysics: On leadership and learning
In this episode, I speak with Ginny Whitelaw. Ginny is the founder of the Institute for Zen Leadership, a Zen Master in the Chozen-ji line of Rinzai Zen, as well as President of Focus Leadership. She is a recognized expert in leadership development and executive coaching and has authored 4 books, including The Zen Leader. A biophysicist by training, she combines a rich scientific background with senior leadership experience at NASA, and more than 20 years developing global leaders. Ginny brings ancient wisdoms and contemporary science together to make us question the dominant narrative of control in schools, the one that is built on cause and effect to reach outcomes. We discuss:How quantum physics and Zen wisdoms share the same understandings of an interconnected universe;How the mechanistic views upon which our schools depend are losing their legitimacy opening doors for regenerative, ecosystemic perspectives;How learning is a shared experience built on dynamic relationships, not just with each other, but with the natural world, through capacity building. Join us for this episode and check out our blog on www.coconut-thinking.design.The Coconut Thinking podcast is made in partnership with Intrepid Ed News (www.intrepidednews.com) and you can find Ginny and more information on Zen leader on on https://zenleader.global

Nov 2, 2021 • 44min
Andres Roberts: How would nature change leadership... and schools?
In this episode of the Coconut Thinking Podcast, I speak with Andres Roberts, Founding Partner at The Bio-Leadership Project and Way of Nature UK. The Mission of the Bio-Leadership Project is to change the story of leadership by working with nature. Much of Andrés's work is around asking the question "How would nature change leadership?" This question is pertinent to all corners of society, but more and more so as learners become leaders. In this episode, we discuss:• How the mechanistic, reductionist narrative is become outdated;• What is it to connect to something more than ourselves, to do good for the whole?• Changing our definitions of success and progress by finding inspiration from nature.If you like this podcast, subscribe, leave a review... and check us out on www.coconut-thinking.design.This podcast is in partnership with Intrepid Ed News (www.intrepidednews.com)

Oct 26, 2021 • 50min
Daniel Christian Wahl: Regenerative cultures for learning
In this episode, I speak with Daniel Christian Wahl, international consultant and educator specializing in biologically-inspired whole systems design and transformative innovation. He is the author of Designing Regenerative Cultures and has worked with local and national governments on foresight and futures, consulted companies like Camper, Ecover and Lush on sustainable innovation, and has co-authored and taught sustainability training courses for Gaia Education, LEAD International and various universities and design schools. Daniel's experience and views on regenerative cultures are part of a larger systemic conversation that involve education and the pressing need for change.In this episode, we discuss: The building capacity in ourselves, others, and life, over looking for fixed solutions;Making the teaching of bio-productivity a measure, if not the measure, of success;Being receptive to place so we can become expressions of place.Join us for another episode and please visit us on www.coconut-thinking.design.This podcast is in partnership with Intrepid Ed News (www.intrepidednews.com).

Oct 10, 2021 • 48min
Jane Bryant: Centralizing the Arts to liberate learning
In this episode of the Coconut Thinking podcast, I speak with Jane Bryant, former CEO of Artswork, the UK's national youth arts development agency, formerly chaired by Ken Robinson. Now a consultant, Jane works in the cultural sector, aiming to work with clients from arts, creative and cultural organisations, the education sector, funders, and local authorities. Much of her work focuses on increasing access, especially for children and young people. In this episode, we discuss:How the Arts can help us develop so much that can be transferred to other parts of our lives;How reducing education to assessment and sidelining the affective does a great disservice to us as individuals and a society;How the Arts and creative practice can be centralized in schools.I take the phrase "liberating learning" from Santiago Rincón-Gallardo and I don't think there could be a better use of the phrase than when considering the connection between the Arts and creativity in schools.You can also check out our web site on www.coconut-thinking.design and we look forward to your thoughts and comments.

Sep 23, 2021 • 45min
Carol Sanford: How can we reframe our learning through living systems?
How can we use regenerative practices to help people reveal their essence? How can we move away from a deterministic approach to education and allow learners to set their own path in ways that are meaningful to them? What could a learning ecosystem without assessment look like? How do we draw on the commonalities of quantum physics and ancient wisdoms to frame our thinking?In this episode of the Coconut Thinking podcast, I speak with Carol Sanford. Carol is a consistently recognized thought leader working side by side with Fortune 500 and new economy executives in designing and leading systemic business change and design. Through her university and in-house educational offerings, global speaking platforms, multi-award-winning books, and human development work, Carol works with executive leaders who see the possibility to change the nature of work through developing people and work systems that ignite motivation everywhere. Carol is the author of The Regenerative Business: Redesign Work, Cultivate Human Potential, Achieve Extraordinary Outcomes and several other books. She was recognized as a Thought Leader Lifetime Achievement Award from Trust Across America-Trust Around the World, and has received the Athena Award for Excellence in Business, Mentorship and Community Service. Check out our blog on https://coconut-thinking.design.

Sep 9, 2021 • 59min
Louka Parry: We are human beings, not humans doings
This episode is the second part of a two part series of exchanges between Louka Parry, CEO of the Learning Future and host of the Learning Future podcast, and me. I was thrilled to be a guest on Louka's podcast (part 1) and even more thrilled to have Louka on this episode. In addition his role at Learning Future, Louka is a Founding Executive of Karanga: the Global Alliance for SEL and Life Skills. A former teacher, he became a school principal at 27 years old and was named Inspirational Public Secondary Teacher of the Year for South Australia. He has since trained thousands of educators and leaders globally to increase their positive impact. He is a linguist, a world traveller, incredibly well-read and thoughtful, and his perspective on many issues are sure to move your thinking. In this episode, we ask: How can we move from one learning standard to one learning ecosystem, with many journeys possible?How does "success for us" change if we re-think the boundaries of "us?"What would an explicit curriculum of kindness look like?We hope you'll enjoy this episode, subscribe, and come visit us on https://coconut-thinking.design.

Aug 25, 2021 • 44min
Devin Vodicka: Learning starts with knowing who we are
In this episode of the Coconut Thinking podcast, I speak with Devin Vodicka, CEO of the Learner-Centered Collaborative, former CEO of Altitude Learning, and author of "Learner-Centered Leadership." You will probably have come across Devin's writings, talks, and thoughts as he is as deep a thinker as he is a prolific creator. Devin contributes so much to the conversation about what it means to be a leader inside and outside schools, how we can think and re-think assessment to be more learner-centered, and the role of identity in the process of learning. Oh yeah, and he knows a thing or two about quantum mechanics. We discuss:How the ways we have used to measure learning have impeded possibilities for learning;How knowing who we are is essential to the process of learning, but there are many ways to define "we;"How social connections need to power new ways of thinking, leaving egos behind.Join us for another episode, check out our blog on www.coconut-thinking.design, and if you like what you hear, follow us and leave a rating.

Aug 15, 2021 • 49min
Joanne McEachen: Meaning and fulfillment are the new wealth
In this episode, I speak with Joanne McEachen (Waitaha, Ngāti Māmoe, and Ngāi Tahu), CEO and Founder of The Leaner First. Joanne has spent over 30 years working as a teacher, principal, superintendent, and education change leader in countries around the world. She is a celebrated author, speaker, change leader, and executive coach, a Fellow of Salzburg Global Seminar, an Edmund Hillary Fellow, on the Executive Team of Karanga: The Global Alliance for Social Emotional Learning and Life Skills, and cofounder of New Pedagogies for Deep Learning (NPDL). She creates opportunities for learners, educators, and communities to learn who they are, how they fit into the world, and how they can contribute their gifts to humanity. We discuss:How contribution to ourselves, others, and the planet is the only way to acquire the new wealth of meaning and fulfillment;How we can move toward assessing collective rather than individual efforts;How knowing "where we come from" is the starting point for forging new relationships;How indigenous wisdoms remind us that we are interconnected with all life, which opens up a new (yet ancient) way of understanding learning and action.Read our blog and leave your comments on www.coconut-thinking.design.

Jul 20, 2021 • 38min
Richard Louv: How can we develop inquiry and empathy by connecting with nature?
In this episode of the Coconut Thinking podcast (used to be called Meaningful Learning), I speak with Richard Louv. Richard is a journalist and author of ten books. He speaks internationally on nature-deficit disorder, a concept he first introduced in Last Child in the Woods; on the importance of children’s and adults’ exposure to nature for their health, and on the need for environmental protection and preservation for greater access to nature and the health of the Earth. Richard is the recipient of the national Audubon Medal, the San Diego Zoological Society Conservation Medal; the George B. Rabb Conservation Medal from the Chicago Zoological Society; the International Making Cities Livable Jane Jacobs Award; and the Cox Award, Clemson University’s highest honor for “sustained achievement in public service.” Richard has written for The New York Times, The Washington Post, the Times of London, Orion, Outside and other newspapers and magazines. In this episode, we discuss:How thinking is seeing what is not visible, which leads to empathy;How we need to move beyond sustainability as a word and a goal;How we become more alive when we empathize with other living things.Join us and check out our blog on https://coconut-thinking.design.