
Coconut Thinking
The Coconut Thinking podcast brings educational provocateurs and practitioners in the regenerative space together to ask: what would it take to create the conditions for all life to thrive? Conversations are as diverse as the guests, but each one participates in the ecosystem, and each one questions the dominant narrative. This is a show for those who are curious about learning, systems, and contributing to the bio-collective—all life that has an interest in the healthfulness of the planet.
Latest episodes

Apr 2, 2022 • 56min
Rob Houben: What do you want to make, do, or learn?
In this episode, I speak with Rob Houben, from the Agora School, in the Netherlands. Agora is a school without using timetables, courses, or age groups. They teach students to manage their own learning process, starting each day with a simple question: What do you want to make, do or learn? This is a network of 20 schools that gives children "the opportunity to play, because when children are playing, they get interested." In this conversation, Rob and I discuss:How it's not about learner-centered, it's about growth;How you can design learning experiences based on what kids need and are interested in in that moment, not what the "curriculum" tells them;Liberation as culture-building for deeper learning.You can find out more about Agora in this article. Check us out on www.coconut-thinking.design, where you'll find our articles, presentations, and resources. Get in touch!You can also find our articles and those of some fantastic thinkers and doers in education on Intrepid Ed News: www.intrepidednews.com

Mar 28, 2022 • 51min
Josie Warden: Regenerative design draws on assets not deficits
In this episode, I speak with Josie Warden, Head of Regenerative Design at the RSA—the royal society for arts, manufactures and commerce. Josie is particularly interested in the intersection between design, environment and economy and is currently leading the RSA’s work on circular and regenerative economy and manufacturing. She originally trained as a textile designer, and holds a Master's degree in Leadership for Sustainable Development.This is part of our series to bring in the voices of those calling for more regenerative frameworks. What will it take to shift the conversation away from "school" and toward learning ecosystems, which are themselves living systems? In this conversation, we discuss:How we can thrive in a world of complexity because we are built for an interdependent world, which is itself nonlinear and thus complex;How our designs and actions need to be place-sourced and contextualized, because one size doesn't fit all;How regenerative design draws on assets, not fixating on what people need.Check us out on www.coconut-thinking.design, where you'll find our articles, presentations, and resources. Get in touch!You can also find our articles and those of some fantastic thinkers and doers in education on Intrepid Ed News: www.intrepidednews.com

Mar 26, 2022 • 49min
Sal Gordon: Bend like bamboo
In this episode, I speak with Sal Gordon, Head of Teaching and Learning and Principal at Green School, Bali. Sal is an ‘education revolutionary’ and he believes that Green School as a new model of what a school of the future needs to do and be, is well-placed to drive the revolution that this planet needs. Sal is passionate about how humans need to adapt (to bend like bamboo) - and how life-skills and values need to be the foundation of all learning experiences for all students. In this conversation, we discuss:Education models as drivers of culture, as the central core of what a community is;How relationtionships blend from global to local and back again;How sometimes you need to set yourself up to fail.Join us for another episode and check out our website on www.coconut-thinking.design, where you'll find our blog, podcasts, presentations, and resources, all centered around learning and action to contribute to the thriving of the bio-collective.You can also find us and some great thinkers and doers in education on Intrepid Ed News: www.intrepidednews.com.

Mar 18, 2022 • 47min
John Watkins: Re-wilding learning and learners
In this episode, I speak with John Watkins. John has over thirty years experience in consulting, coaching, designing, facilitating, researching, and evaluating in school and school district improvement efforts. Currently, he is Co-Director with Jal Mehta, Professor at Harvard, of the Deeper Learning Dozen, creating a community of practice for superintendents who are committed to the transformation of their districts to support equitable access to deeper learning. In this conversation, we discuss:Creating learning environments based on biodiversity, replicating nature to bring out our uniqueness and strengths;How learning is an embodied experience that requires action to be deep, because without action, learning dissipates;Ways we can go beyond the system we know, beyond school to liberate possibilities for learning as individuals and as a collective.Check out this episode and visit website on www.coconut-thinking.design, where you'll find our blog, articles, resources, and links.You can also find our articles and podcasts as well as those of several wonderful authors on www.intrepidednews.com

Mar 7, 2022 • 31min
Special World Education Summit Episode: Portfolios and curricula of contribution
This is a special episode of the Coconut Thinking podcast ahead of the World Education Summit, which will be held 21-24 March 2022. Charlotte Hankin interviews Benjamin Freud ahead of the 2 presentations he shares with Joanne McEachen on Contributive Learning and Curricula of Contribution, as well as the other presentation he will give on Portfolios of Impact and Contribution. In this episode, Benjamin speaks also about:How school is reaching the end of its life cycle;How learning does not exist without action and how we might want to direct action toward good;How ethics that contribute to a thriving ecosystem can bring us together in spite of our individual inner work.Join us for this special episode. The complete schedule for the World Education Summit can be found here.

Feb 2, 2022 • 53min
Jordi Diaz-Gibson: A Sense of belonging is a fundamental human need
In this episode, I speak with Jordi Diaz Gibson, co-Founder of the NetEduProject, which is an international interconnected community of leaders, educators and researchers that is growing, aiming to cultivate and weave local learning ecosystems to effectively respond to our social and planet challenges. Jordi himself is a system change leader, researcher, professor and weaver, committed to accelerating the transition into a more equitable and sustainable planet. In this episode, we discuss:How a collective consciousness emerges from our connection with othersHow social networks are important because they provide opportunities to belong and grow togetherHow the system hampers the uniqueness of the individual and the collectiveJoin us for another episode and check out our articles on https://coconut-thinking.design and Intrepid Ed News on www.intrepidednews.com

Jan 21, 2022 • 45min
Adriano Di Prato: Pedagogies of encounter
In this episode, I speak with Adriano Di Prato, founding partner of a School for tomorrow, a globally recognised educational network supporting students, teachers, and school leaders to thrive in a new world environment. Adriano is also the co-host of the popular podcast Game Changers. Throughout his work, he continues to commit to the emergence of young people under his care, actively promoting inclusion and learner agency, self-determined learning, growth mindset and holistic wellness of all students. In this episode we discuss: How we can consider the whole world a classroom, no longer tied to the physical space of the room itself; How every person, community, and organization (including schools) has is on its own journey, with its own essence; How we can continue to challenge a system in a world that has evolved and keeps evolving.Check out our articles and resources on https://coconut-thinking.design and also be sure to go to Intrepid Ed News on www.intrepidednews.com, where you will find articles from amazing educators and thinkers.

Jan 16, 2022 • 1h 2min
Dwayne Matthews: The Metaverse as an accelerator for school change
In this episode, I speak with Dwayne Matthews, who makes his second appearance on the podcast. Dwayne is a Chief Innovation Evangelist and Future of Education Strategist. He helps school boards, educators and parents understand new and evolving themes in the 21st century, the future of work and how to help prepare children to thrive in a rapidly evolving digital information driven world. I have thought about and written on the possibilities of the Metaverse and wanted to speak with Dwayne about his experiences and insights. He brings a richness to the conversation that is unparalleled and I'm hope this opens up more conversations about possible futures, which don't have to be dystopian. In this episode, we discuss: How the Metaverse and other technologies might put school as we know it out of business;How Dwayne and younger learners from around the world co-creates a (proto-)Metaverse learning experience.How being underwhelmed by what we buy (including tech) and do may be the way out of climate disaster.We hope you enjoy this episode and leave us your comments and read our blog on https://coconut.thinking.design.We are in collaboration with Intrepid Ed News. Read our articles and those of amazing educators and change makers on www.intrepidednews.com

Dec 2, 2021 • 46min
Ulcca Joshi Hansen: Moving toward human liberatory models
In this episode, I speak with Ulcca Joshi Hansen, author, educational thought leader and social change advocate with a twenty-year career dedicated to shifting the foundational values and approaches that undergird America’s education system. She currently serves as the Chief Program Officer for Grantmakers for Education, a member organization that serves as a trusted partner for education philanthropists as they adapt to the changes impacting our world. Her latest book is The Future of Smart and she has a couple TEDx talks that are well worth a listen. We discuss: How this is the first time that employers want the skills that human liberatory models claim to provide (and Ulcca also defines what human liberatory models are!);How the thinking that got us here won't get us out of here: mechanistic/Newtonian thinking needing to make way for quantum thinking/ancient wisdoms; How blockchain and other emerging technologies are tools that might help us get to where we want to go, but they aren't the destination. Check out our blog on www.coconut-thinking.design and also on www.intrepidednews.com

Nov 29, 2021 • 45min
Dave Strudwick: Learning experiences at REAL School Budapest
In this episode, I speak with Dave Strudwick, Principal of REAL School Budapest. REAL School is an independent, not-for-profit international learning environment that educates for sustainability, primarily through real-life, entrepreneurial learning. Their mission is to raise a new generation who can dream and build a more beautiful, equitable and sustainable world for themselves and for all living beings. Dave's background has a strong Arts component to it and his insights on learning and how to set creativity free are rich and provocative. We discuss:How questions are more important than answers in nurturing curiosity;How learners of all ages can work together to contribute to the community and learn through these experiences;How transforming learning means working with, not against, the tensions in education.Check out our blog on www.coconut-thinking.design and Intrepid Ed News on www.intrepidednews.com