Homeschool Unrefined

Join us as we talk to Robyn Robertson about homeschooling, self-directed learning, world schooling and teens. Fall 2022 Season Sponsors   We are so grateful to our Fall 2022 Season Sponsors. Use the links below for their special offerings:   Blossom & Root and use code HSUnrefined15 for 15% off your purchase   Outschool and use code Unrefined for $20 off your first class    Night Zookeeper for a 7-day, risk-free trial, as well as 50% off an annual subscription  LTWs    Maren: Weiman Stainless Steel Cleaner   Angela: Libro.fm and All My Rage by Sabaa Tahir   Connect with us!  Visit our website  Sign up for our newsletter and get our Top 100 Inclusive Book List We are listener supported! Support us on Patreon Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and see video episodes now on Youtube Angela on Instagram: @unrefinedangela | Maren on Instagram: @unrefinedmaren and @alwayslearningwithmaren  Email us any questions or feedback at homeschoolunrefined@gmail.com   Complete Episode Transcript   [00:00:00] Maren: Hi, we're Maren and Angela of Homeschool, Unrefined. Over the past 25 years, we've been friends, teachers, homeschool parents, and podcasters, together with our master's degrees in 20 years combined homeschooling. We are here to rethink homeschooling, learning, and education with an inclusive and authentic lens. [00:00:29] Angela: At Homeschool Unrefined, we prioritize things like giving yourself credit, building strong connections, respectful parenting, interest led playing and learning, learning differences, mental health, self care, and listening to and elevating LGBTQ Plus and BIPOC Voices.  [00:00:49] Maren: We are here to encourage and support you, whether you're a new homeschooler, a veteran. [00:00:55] Whether you love curriculum or you're an unschooler, whether all your kids are at [00:01:00] home or all your kids are in school or somewhere in between, wherever you are on your journey, we're the voice in your head telling you, you're doing great,  [00:01:07] Angela: and so are your kids. This is episode 1 97, How We Homeschool with Robyn Robertson. [00:01:14] We are gonna talk about that in just a minute. Mm-hmm. . And then we're gonna end like we always do with our lt. Ws Loving this week. Hello Mar. Hello. How are you doing great. Great to see you.  [00:01:28] Maren: Yes, and you too. We are so excited to just tell you a little bit or remind you, actually, you've probably heard this, but if you sign up for our newsletter right now, you are going to get a free gift that we have created lovingly and Caringly for you. [00:01:43] It is a top 100 inclusive book list and you know, we're passionate about reading. And to our kids. And we love books and we love finding inclusive books and this, so this book is like, has been tailored from our years of [00:02:00] experience reading. And we just really wanted to share this with you. So join our newsletter today and you were gonna get that  [00:02:06] Angela: for free. [00:02:07] Yes, and we have all different age groups. We have audio books, we have graphic novels, so it is should be something for everyone. [00:02:18] Taking online classes is one way to take the burden off you and outsource something your child wants to learn. That's why we love Out School. We know that kids who love to learn don't just prepare for the future. They create it. That's why Out School has reimagined online learning to empower kids and teens to expand their creativity, wonder and knowledge. [00:02:39] Empathetic, passionate teachers encourage learners ages three to 18 to explore their. Connect with diverse peers from around the world and take an active role in leading their learning out. School has created a world filled with endless possibilities for every schooling journey. Explore over 140,000 fun and flexible [00:03:00] live online classes to find the right fit for your family and join us as we set learning free. [00:03:05] Sign up today at Out schooler.me/homeschool unrefined and get up to $20 off your first class when you enroll with the code. Unrefined.  [00:03:17] Maren: We know that teaching, writing and reading can be a struggle night. Zookeeper is here to help. Is your child a reluctant writer? Do they struggle with reading? If your answer to either of these questions is yes, the Night Zookeeper may be just what you've been looking for. [00:03:35] Night Zookeeper is an online learning program for children, ages six to 12 years old that uses a gamified and creative approach to help keep kids engaged and focused on developing awesome reading and writing skills, all while having fun at the same time. Some of the features we love include the educational games, the personalized feedback on writing from real tutors, [00:04:00] and the super safe community pages where children can work with each other and learn together. [00:04:05] If Night Zookeeper sounds like the perfect learning program for your child, you can try it for free by clicking on the link in the show notes. When you register, you'll get a seven. Risk free trial as well as a huge 50% off an annual subscription. That's a great  [00:04:22] Angela: deal if you ask. We know that finding a curriculum that fits your unique needs can be a challenge. [00:04:29] Have you tried Blossom and Root yet? Blossom and Root is a nature focused secular homeschool curriculum, focusing on creativity, science, nature, literature, and the arts. Blossom and WRI has been gently encouraging and supporting homeschool families around the globe since 2016. Blossom and Root currently offers curricula for pre-K through fifth grade with new levels being added in the future. [00:04:53] Additionally, a three volume inclusive US history curriculum told from a variety of viewpoints is [00:05:00] currently in development as of August, 2022. Volume one is available for purchase, and volume two is available on pre. All profits from this history curriculum. A river of voices will be used to support storytellers and artists from historically excluded communities. [00:05:16] You can find ex examples, samples, scope, and sequences, and information about each of their levels online@blossomandroot.com. You can also find them in on Instagram at Blossom and Root. Blossom and Root has created a special discount for our listeners. Use the code Hs. Unrefined 15 at checkout for 15% off your purchase. [00:05:40] Maren: All right. We would like to introduce you to Robyn Robertson. Robyn Robertson is an unschooling mom to two kids. Podcast host, business owner and public school board trustee. Robyn, her husband and their two kids started their world schooling [00:06:00] journey in 2012. Her experiences traveling while home educating had Robyn questioning her past beliefs around parenting, how we learn and the education system. [00:06:12] Today, Robyn advocates politically for home education and self-directed. She combines that experience, knowledge, and curiosity in her mentoring, working with families to help them envision and create their own unique  [00:06:27] Angela: learning paths. [00:06:28] Please enjoy our conversation with Robyn. [00:06:31] Well, hello Robyn. Welcome to Homeschool Unrefined.  [00:06:35] Robyn: Hi Angela. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be on your podcast. I'm a, I'm a listener,  [00:06:40] Angela: so Oh, you are? Okay. That's great. I'm so glad to have you and I know you have your own podcast too, and we've just never connected until now. I know some of our listeners listen and so I'm just really glad to be able to connect. [00:06:54] Robyn: Me too. Thank you for,  [00:06:56] Angela: So for people who don't know you or who maybe don't listen to your podcast, [00:07:00] can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your family and your work and things like.  [00:07:05] Robyn: Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Robin Robertson . Yeah. And I'm the creator and host of the podcast, Honey. I'm homeschooling the kids. [00:07:13] I'm an unschooling parent to two kids who are now teenagers. We live in northern Alberta, Canada, but we began this homeschool journey as world schoolers. We wanted to travel with our kids, and that's the beginning. Of the journey. And honestly, we thought we would be doing this thing for like a year at the most. [00:07:33] Yeah. . And then everything would be going, like, we'd go back to school and all that sort of stuff. Okay. But obviously it's 10 years later. Okay. And we're still kind of doing, creating our own unique learning journey and You know, the podcast is a big part of that where, But a lot of my purpose is sharing that the stories of families that are creating their unique learning journeys, just to provide the example and inspiration that it can be done. [00:07:56] Yeah. Families have been doing it, that kids have grown up [00:08:00] doing it, have been successful and I wanna say successful in our. Different ways. I know there's not just a standard idea that I, or maybe there is, but I think that's shifting. Mm-hmm. . So, you know, that's really what I do. I advocate for self-directed learning locally within my community within the homeschooling community. [00:08:18] But really I advocate for kids. Yeah. And families that wanna create their own unique learning.  [00:08:24] Angela: Yeah. That's awesome. So I'm really interested in that because you, did you go on a big trip for that first year you were traveling around?  [00:08:33] Robyn: We actually, we moved to Jamaica. Oh, okay. For a little over half a year. [00:08:38] My family, my dad is from Jamaica, so we actually moved back in with that side of the family and lived there. Okay. And then we ended up going to South Korea for a year, a little over  [00:08:48] Angela: a year. Wow. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And at that point you were, you thought. This, we'll do this for a little while and then when we come back, our kids will go into school. [00:08:58] That was your plan originally? [00:09:00] Yep.  [00:09:00] Robyn: That was the, I took six months leave of absence for my job. . Okay. told everyone I would be back in six months. Okay. Yeah, and we thought we would, you know, go traveling. We go to Jamaica first, and then we would decide what we would wanna do. . Yeah. And we thought we'd come back. [00:09:15] My kids would go back to school, we'd go back to our house and, you know, we'd be happy with a little bit of a, a change in our rhythm. At that time, we, we needed to make a change actually. Yeah. But we, we found out our change needed to be bigger than what we planned it to  [00:09:30] Angela: be. So, Or in the other direction, you know? [00:09:33] Yes. Like, yeah. Yeah. So what about that year or year and a half made you change your mind? And decide to keep going. Keep homeschooling or, Yeah, keep, keep homeschool.  [00:09:46] Robyn: You know, it was my kids. Mm-hmm. really, we, you know, we, my husband and I had traveled a lot before. Okay. And we, when we began our family, we knew it was something we wanted to eventually continue doing. [00:09:57] So my dad's from Jamaica, my mom's from Canada. [00:10:00] Okay. I've lived all over the world from like my. My, my parents because of my dad's work, because my parents traveled. And then as I became an adult, a young adult, I started traveling on my own for school and then just experience. And so it was very much having a multicultural viewpoint of the world was very, a much a normal thing for me because of my family history. [00:10:24] But just to begin with that so my viewpoint was always a little bit different and I, it was really important to me that my kids also have a perspective, especially because we have a very diverse family. Mm-hmm. . And my husband was the same as well. And the way that he, you know, he had, he had loved our travel experiences. [00:10:41] He wanted to travel himself, so he did as well. And then we just felt it was something that we wanted our family to do. And then when we decided to travel, We were, we were at a point in our life where we knew our family needed a change. We were doing the work, you know, we're busy working. Yeah. My husband was building a [00:11:00] business. [00:11:00] I actually worked at the school that my kids went to, which was nice. But it was like, We, you know, our week was spent with work, school, getting ready for all of that stuff, activities, barely having supp or having a bath, going to bed, doing it all over again. Sunday, I grocery shop, clean up the house and I was tired. [00:11:19] Like Saturday was sports and you know, all those mm-hmm. and we were like, we need to, And our kids were like getting the leftovers essentially. Yeah. You know, they were getting just those minutes. Energy that I could maybe, you know, do with them. And it's like, well let's just watch some TV kind of thing. [00:11:36] Yeah, yeah. Cuz you're so tired, . Yeah. And so we needed to, we needed to do something different. So my husband was the one who said, Well, why don't we first? He said, Why don't we go to Jamaica? You know, let's, we want to travel. Let's just try, you know, if it doesn't work, we can just come home. Right? Yeah, totally. [00:11:52] And he was like, It'll be easy. You're, you know, we'll live with family there and. And then, you know, at least it will be like an easy [00:12:00] entry and we can homeschool the kids . Like we can homeschool. It's no problem. And his business was mobile so he could work from anywhere. So we started doing that and, but the thing was, is. [00:12:15] My kids were, well, one, we finished our homeschool work that the school had sent us within like the first month. It was six months of work and we finished it in like a month, and that was only doing a few hours every morning. Okay. Our rule was, By the time lunchtime hits it's free game. Like, yeah, free play. [00:12:34] We're gonna spend the afternoons at the beach, we'll go visiting family. It's just exploring, having fun. And what happened was is my kids, even when the work was done, my kids in their play time, in their free time, and then the time after the, the quote unquote school work was done. They were even more engaged. [00:12:54] They were asking so many questions about the world around them and wanting to find out more [00:13:00] that it was one of those times where I was in that experience and began to understand that idea that learning is separate from school. School and learning are not always. That it doesn't have to look like a textbook and classroom, that actually you can be absolutely engaged and internally motivated and love learning at any time of the day. [00:13:24] Mm-hmm. , especially when you're engaged in play freedom something that you're, you know, you are loving to do and joy and. The more we, our life looked like that. Mm-hmm. , It was like the more my kids seemed to be learning. Yeah. So everything that I understood before seemed to really contradict almost. [00:13:45] Yeah. And so that's kind of the beginning of how we started or to continued homeschooling. Yeah. And then by the time we got back to Canada not where we were living, but actually here where we are now. My kids said to me one day, [00:14:00] they were like, We don't wanna go back to school. Hmm. Interesting. We wanna keep homeschooling. [00:14:05] Mm-hmm. and I had wanted to, but I also didn't want to put it on them like, We're gonna keep homeschooling. We can't go back to school. We'd always had that conversation. It would always be open. And so once they said, No, we wanna, we, we have no desire to go back to school. We wanna keep homeschooling. We were like, Okay, we'll keep doing it as long as it works for us and as long as you wanna do that. [00:14:24] And yeah. So  [00:14:26] Angela: your, your experience of them being more authentically involved in their learning when you were doing self-directed things and when you were homeschooling, when you were traveling mm-hmm. is what led you to do it. It's like you had the, you had confidence cuz you saw, you saw with your own eyes and your own experience that this was really good and that they were learning a  [00:14:46] Robyn: lot. [00:14:47] That's exactly it.  [00:14:48] Angela: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, and you had a background in schools and so you saw it, you definitely in your, you know, you're a product of the school system I'm sure too, right? Yeah. So was it [00:15:00] hard for you to let go of some of those more traditional school type things like you know, like You know, we need to, we actually do though, need to be doing some sitting down and writing, or we actually do need to be doing some homework or, I don't know, what were, were there things that you had a hard time letting go of? [00:15:22] Robyn: Oh yeah, of course. Okay. I think , I think all of us do. Right? And my husband as well too, right? Yeah. I, you know, there were times where I was, you know, maybe like, No, we're not gonna, we don't have anything planned for today. And my husband would like, Don't you think the kids should do some writing? Yeah. [00:15:38] Like, don't you think like, after they're watching Magic School Bus, they should maybe do a summary on what they, you know, what they learn? Kind of, you know, that kinda thing. And yeah, I absolutely did. I think that's pretty normal for every homeschooling parent you wanna get in some reading and math lessons as much as you can just sneak it in here and there. [00:15:55] Yeah. Yeah. But also I, you know, where we are from in Canada, it's [00:16:00] fairly highly regulated. Canada itself is go very government regulated. Okay. The province that we live in the way we were registered, we actually had to follow our provincial curriculum. So there were still checks and balances at the end of Sure. [00:16:12] The throughout we had to follow. But there is an option where you can opt out and I didn't do that because I didn't, you know, I didn't think it was okay. . Yeah. You know, I wanted to have that security, but by the time my son was in third grade, he was about, yeah, he was probably about nine. He, you know, it was kind of like near the end of the school year and I wanted to go through all of the curriculum checks, like, you know, let's make sure we covered this and this and this and that year, third grade, where we live, there is a area of social studies that is like a world broadening your worldview. [00:16:51] And so they have specific country you have to study in order to get an idea of the world kind of. Yep. The I, the general idea is that we are [00:17:00] citizens of the world and we have similarities and differences from people all around around us. Sure. Yep. And so they give you the countries to study. And we hadn't studied those countries. [00:17:09] And when I brought them to my son, he was like, I don't wanna study those countries, . And he, and he asked me, he was like, Why do I have to study these? And I told them, Because the curriculum says you have to, Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , And he just kind of looked at me like, that makes no sense whatsoever. Like, so basically he just said, So this says I have to do it, so that's why I have to do it. [00:17:33] Even though I've been studying, you know, I've been learning about Borneo and Tahiti because I wanna learn about those spaces because of Right. You know, I'm, there's things that I relate to and those that I'm interested in. Mm-hmm. , So I've been learning about those places for the last six months. Mm-hmm. [00:17:49] but doesn't that count? Yeah. And I was like, this is a good argument. He brought Yeah. . Yeah. Right. And I, I had no response, like no valid response where I felt to my core like, you know [00:18:00] what? I disagree. This is know, this is why. Yeah. So that was the last year and after that we opted out of following any curriculum. [00:18:08] Oh, okay. Eventual curriculum. We, we checked off the box where we said we no longer will be doing. Following this. And, and then I think that was a full step of, we're just on our own.  [00:18:20] Angela: Right. And so what kind of do you have a label for your type of homeschooling right now? Like what kind of homeschooler would you say that you are now? [00:18:28] Robyn: We're  [00:18:28] Angela: unschoolers. You're unschoolers, Okay. Yeah. And did you Was that more gradual, like after the third grade year when you opted out? Did you feel like you fully jumped into that or were you still was, this has been a gradual change for you?  [00:18:42] Robyn: Oh, it's been a gradual change, yeah.  [00:18:44] Angela: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. [00:18:45] Okay. And so I would say that. To maybe a lot of our listeners that might sound unique, just because I know you have teens now. Your kids are now teens. Mm-hmm. , and so you're still unschooling. Can you tell us what that looks like? We get this question [00:19:00] a lot, and so I would love to hear from you what that looks like for your teens. [00:19:06] Robyn: Oh yeah. I get this question too, and it's kind of hard to, you know, people want it, put it in a nice like package and bow and then give it to you when unschooling can't be packaged and put a bow on top and given to you because it's so unique to the learner. Yeah. I think the easiest way to define unschooling, which I, I usually start with, if we're looking at learning, it's when the learner decides the how. [00:19:28] What, where, and what of their learning. The learner decides that, okay, and they're internally motivated with their own personal why. Mm. So coming from that place it's very much learner directed or my, you know, my, my children, I, I, I call myself an end schooler as well cuz I'm a learner in our family for sure. [00:19:48] Call my husband is a learner. Yeah. So all of our learning is self-directed in that way. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm . So what it looks like is, you know, my kids, for example, my youngest is 13. [00:20:00] And you know, she has her really, it's supporting their interests and their curiosities. So, you know, a lot of it is. You know, we're in conversation all the time. [00:20:10] Mm-hmm. , we are you know, I, it's observation. Mm-hmm. , it's noticing, it's being a, a listening parent that listens and hears mm-hmm. that doesn't always speak because I, I want to understand what they're interested in, what they're curious about, and usually, especially after these, They are very good at communicating. [00:20:30] You know, I'd really like to learn more about this, or I'd really like to do this, or, you know, in our conversations we were doing this last year and I felt like maybe it worked for my brother, but it didn't work for me and I wanna do something differently. Yeah. So for my daughter, for example, she's really into. [00:20:44] Sports team sports. She plays volleyball, she plays softball. She's snowboards, so a lot of her activities are centered around her sports and training. Mm-hmm. . So that of course takes time. She's a musician, so she does a lot with guitar songwriting. Right now she's [00:21:00] doing a music theory course because she plays. [00:21:03] But she doesn't know how to read notes yet. So that was her focus this year is she wants to be able to read music. Yeah. So she's doing a course in that. And, you know, things like, she's very creative. She loves to read. She always has like, you know, she reads novels like by the minute. Awesome. It seems like so really, You know, knowing their interests for the long term and for the year or for the month, and I'm the support person that helps 'em with resources. [00:21:30] I'm the chauffeur, I'm the person who encourages and really I think unschooling, and I think this is missed. A lot of times we talk about the learning part of it, but unschooling by supporting the learner. The biggest part of it is building the relationship with our family and kids, because I think the biggest part of unschooling that sometimes is overlooked is the trust, and that's the hardest part as well. [00:21:55] Trusting our kids cuz we usually think kids aren't gonna make a good decision, they're gonna [00:22:00] choose wrong, They're going, you know, they don't understand. So, mm-hmm. , building that trust and knowing, and for our kids to know that they are trusted, that they're. Their environment is safe. Mm-hmm. , it's, they're loved and validated, so they will ask those questions. [00:22:18] They will be, you know, confident to try things and try new experiences because they know even if it is a mistake or doesn't work, it's not the end of the world. It's a learning experience. So that's really the biggest part of our unschooling, is building that foundation. For my son, he's older, so he has always been someone who's very focused on specific things. [00:22:42] His personality is that way. He been animals since he was like tiny, like an infant, almost like he. Bird, I think was one of his first words. Wow. And, and so he's always been dedicated to learning about wildlife and ecology and animals. And [00:23:00] that now has taken him to a path where he, like, he works in, in, in the field. [00:23:06] He works for a wildlife outfitters. And this is the second season for six months under the year he's out in the wilderness. And he helps, he's learning to be a guide, a wildlife. Wow. And so they're out on very unique terrain. Mm-hmm. , you know, working with international clients, they do things like you know, their area is very unique to the animals that are there. [00:23:28] Mm-hmm. . So that's also why it's a unique outfitters, but, you know, supporting that interest and helping him to get connected with real life experiences is another big part of unschooling. Yeah, so, so it's very broad, but that's what it looks like for our family  [00:23:44] Angela: and that sounds amazing. I'm so glad you explained all that. So the thing I noticed when you were explaining that is these experiences for your kids, whether it's what, what your son's doing with the wildlife outfitter or all the different things that your daughter's doing with the sports [00:24:00] and the music and just being creative and all of that. They would not be able to do that if they were in school. [00:24:05] They just, There wouldn't be time. There wouldn't be time. . Yeah. And energy. They would be exhausted. From exerting themselves all day, doing things that they're not really that interested in. And then so to have the time at at night to come home or on the weekends and do those things, they might be able to do some of them, but it wouldn't be like this deep a deep experience into something that they're truly interested in and passionate about. [00:24:30] And that is where the real learning happens. It's just, you know that that's where the real learning happens and I just think you are giving your kids such a gift and that they have these opportunities to go deep into things that they're passionate about. I think, I think kids who are in school and mine are this year, I think kids who are in school have a hard time with harder time with that. [00:24:52] They come become like, Kind of general, like they know a little bit about a lot of things. Mm-hmm. and they have a hard [00:25:00] time pinning down like, what am I really interested in? Because they're not spending time doing tho their interests as much. Right. Yeah. And so I just, and so sometimes then they're like, Well, I wanna go to college, but I don't know what I wanna do. [00:25:11] I mean, that was me so. So I relate to that. Like it would've been great as a teen when you have all that energy and all that excitement and like you're ready for some intensity in something. Yeah. To be able to do that, to be able to like gear it towards the thing you're into. I. Your son, you know, he's known for a long time that he is interested in animals, but some kids wouldn't know that. [00:25:34] And so this would be a good time to like explore and try. Like maybe they try one job and they're, they realize, well, that was a good experience, but I'm not really into that. I'm gonna try this other thing. You know? And you have the time and energy and freedom to do those things. I just think that is a real gift. [00:25:51] And I just I think it sounds dreamy as a team, like really dreamy . So is there anything that [00:26:00] is challenging about it for you or your kids that you wish could be different or were a challenge?  [00:26:07] Robyn: Let me see. I think probably. You know, I think, you know, it's interesting. I think it is a challenge, but it isn't a challenge partly because where we live, Okay. [00:26:19] Is fairly remote. So, you know, my kids do are very social. They have a lot of friends. Actually, my daughter, because of sports, most of her friends go to school. Actually now the majority of her friends. So sometimes I think it would be nice just to be physically closer to more unschoolers, more self-directed learners who just get or understand our lifestyle a little bit more. [00:26:42] Mm-hmm. . For example, like my daughter will say, you know, I don't understand why my friends who go to school don't like to read. Yeah. Cause she would love to have like a discussion on books, . Yeah. Right. You know, on the books that she reads. But usually they tell her, I don't, I hate reading. Like, we have to read this book that my teacher made us read, Right? [00:26:57] Mm-hmm. . So I know sometimes they say they miss the [00:27:00] conversations with maybe kids around their age group that they'd like to have, that they can have with adults, which is fantastic. Yeah. But sometimes those things, they. But saying that as well, I know some of their closest friends are different ages, Like they both have, their closest friends are a lot older than them, and I think that just is what happens with the circumstances of their life and living as well. [00:27:24] But you know, I think also that's our remoteness is just where we are. Yeah. And there's not a lot of people just, there's not  [00:27:31] Angela: where we're, ok. Yeah. So when she's doing sports and stuff, that's at like the nearest town. That you're close  [00:27:37] Robyn: to? Yeah, we do a lot of driving and especially if she's doing club or she actually plays for school team right now. [00:27:44] Okay, okay. Which is fantastic. So homeschoolers can play with, they can try out for school teams. So right now she's playing volleyball with our local junior high high school team. And then she'll, once that season is done, she starts club. And, but it's just, yeah. And I think most parents who. [00:28:00] Do things like club volleyball or basketball or anything like that. [00:28:03] There's a lot of traveling. They're driving. Yeah.  [00:28:06] Angela: Whether you're in homeschool or, or school or, Yeah. There's just a lot of driving. Yeah. So is it, so are you finding community then with people, not with a lot of other homeschoolers, but with more just like people in your community who maybe do other activities that your kids are in? [00:28:25] Robyn: Yeah, we do, You know, still we have a very strong homeschooling community do. It's very spread out. We do. Okay. Yeah, that's great. It's absolutely grown over the last few years, but you know, a lot of people are an hour and a half away. You know, we're just kind of that radius. But especially now, everyone is trying to gather as much as possible and meet, connect. [00:28:45] Mm-hmm. . So there are some fantastic, Some of my closest friends locally are either unschooling or homeschooling moms, so we absolutely have. Which is good. But yeah, we just do our best to make it work and to come together and things like online, you [00:29:00] know, with my podcast, I have a really large community and have fantastic friends who, you know, I've actually never met in person yet. [00:29:06] Right. But we talk. Almost every day, or we talk regularly online as well. And hopefully soon in the near future I'll be able to see them face to face. .  [00:29:16] Angela: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes some. Ugh, something that we try and tell our listeners is you know, you don't always have to find community with other homeschoolers who live in your town. [00:29:25] You know mm-hmm. And that it's okay to, you know, ha have be friends with your neighbors or people who are doing the same activities as your kids or in other ways. And then also those online friendships are not, those are real. Mm-hmm. , those are real and valuable, and not just for the adults, but kids too, you know? [00:29:44] Yeah. I dunno if your kids have online friends, mind you, and. Those are really valuable friendships as well, and I just think it's an advantage to living in the time that we live in, that we can like connect with people who might be a lot like us, but who live far away because there [00:30:00] might not be that many people who are a lot like us, who are really in proximity to  [00:30:04] Robyn: us. [00:30:04] Right? Yes, Angela, That's absolutely true. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.  [00:30:08] Angela: So do you have like a ? I'm asking this, but I'm kind of  [00:30:13] Robyn: you giggle before you ask. You,  [00:30:15] Angela: going before I'm asking me, do you have a typical day or week ? What, And if you do, what does that look like for you?  [00:30:20] Robyn: No, not really. , not really. [00:30:22] Okay. Okay. No, I, we do so I mean, I think it changes with the season. Okay. Honestly. So I also work apart from my podcast and working at home from that. I also am actually a public school board Trustee . Oh, okay. So I'm a locally elected official. Oh, awesome. So, It gives me good perspective because then I really get the inside knowledge on our public school system, especially locally within our area and division. [00:30:47] So I do, I probably work out of the home once or twice a week. Okay. So, you know, and that depends sometimes. And then, and then also my schedule works around my kids as well, [00:31:00] so coordinating You know, we're usually the mornings I'm with my kids or I mean, usually my daughter, cause my son's just not home very much anymore. [00:31:09] Yeah. But I'm there to, you know, whatever she needs support in whatever she wants to chat about. We usually like sit on the couch in the mornings and, you know, she loves, she likes math. She does Khan Academy for math, so. Okay. I know people always ask what about she's, but she does it. She. She likes it. [00:31:27] She has her goals that she sets every year, every month for it. And usually she just likes me to hang out with her. So she has questions and we discuss everything. Like, we'll watch a video, talk about it, she'll do an exercise or quiz and we'll talk about it. Okay. So things like that, I set aside time in the mornings to, to be there for my kids. [00:31:45] Yeah. And then usually the afternoons. You know, work afternoons or you know, we have a day a week where maybe we'll go exploring or visiting. Mm-hmm. or connecting. And then, you know, right now when it is sports season, it's [00:32:00] usually, you know, my daughter's practicing or training. Either like Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays she has off. [00:32:09] And then Friday, Saturdays are usually games and tournaments. Wow. So the week gets busy. And then in the wintertime we see in snowboard. So we actually spend a lot of time out in the mountains during the winter time. That's so great  [00:32:21] Angela: doing that. So, That's so great. I love that for you and I, you know, we're in Minnesota and so it, it's cold here too. [00:32:29] We don't have the mountains . But just being able to live and live well in your area and take advantage of thing, the snow. I mean, you have to, you have to in the  [00:32:40] Robyn: winter. You kind of gotta embrace it. Yeah. You have to it or  [00:32:43] Angela: you embrace it. Yeah. You either embrace, embrace, like different sports, snow sports, there's a lot of them. [00:32:48] Or you're gonna be stuck inside for a long time. So, so I think that's great that you do that. That is really, really awesome. I love it. So what are you working on right [00:33:00] now that we can let our listeners know about or how  [00:33:02] Robyn: can they find you? Well definitely go to any podcast player unless, and look for honey. [00:33:07] I'm homeschooling the kids. You can find me there. My website as well. Yeah. I, I usually have events or something special going on through the year, so right now, like as we speak, it's October, my masterclass. I do a very, Intimate small group masterclass twice a year and right now fall, This is my time. [00:33:27] We're, we're just beginning that. Mm-hmm. . So that's always awesome on, I started it last year. It's been fantastic for everyone, including me. Yeah. I think everything is a learning process for me. I'm always a student. Whenever I approach anything, so I'll be running another one in the new year in spring. [00:33:46] Okay. So you can contact me to get on the wait list if you're interested in something like that. A good friend of mine, Kelly or Edwards, from the 90 Minute School Day, we do a homeschool summit every year. So we're actually, we do it every. Ring. We actually host it through the app [00:34:00] Clubhouse. Okay. I have a club on that app, Honey Am Homeschooling Club. [00:34:04] So through that app we host a homeschooling summit where we have keynote speakers. There's a theme every year, like a three part theme. And so now is a time where we start planning and getting everything together for the summit. So that's gonna be March, 2023. Okay. That's a free summit to attend. And we have like giveaways and prizes and it's actually a great, that's. [00:34:30] Great to summit. Yeah, so that's, you know, my clubhouse runs. We have discussions three times a week for homeschoolers, non schoolers, and that's something that's open for anyone to join and be part of those live discussions. We do record them and that goes on through the year. And otherwise I do support parents one-on-one if I'm not doing my masterclass or Summit [00:34:51] I do have some, you know, some time where I set aside and I mentor parents as well one-on-one. So That's great. That's usually what I have going on. Building [00:35:00] That's a  [00:35:00] Angela: lot's great. That's a lot. That's a lot. Yeah. And you're with your kids, so.  [00:35:04] Robyn: Yeah. And that's priority, honestly. Right? For  [00:35:07] Angela: sure. For sure. Well, it was really great having you and I'm so glad that our listeners got to hear from you and thank you for  [00:35:13] Robyn: being. [00:35:14] Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. [00:35:17] Angela: All right, let's move on to our lt. Ws. All right. Yes, Mar, what are you loving this week? Okay. I  [00:35:25] Maren: am loving something that I should have gotten years ago. Years ago, . Okay. I just discovered it in 2022. All right. It is a stainless steel cleaner appliance pool. Oh,  [00:35:40] Angela: oh, okay. Yes, yes. The  [00:35:41] Maren: brand name is Wyman. Okay. [00:35:44] And it's a stainless steel cleaner and polish. It's just a spray. Very simple. It removes fingerprints, it removes residue, watermarks, grease, that kind of stuff. And it is [00:36:00] something that I've, I feel like I've been putting  [00:36:02] Angela: up with kind of for like, Oh  [00:36:03] Maren: yeah. I think we, I think we got our first. Stainless steel appliance in like 2015 when we moved [00:36:10] When we moved. Right. Ok. So it's been seven years. Yeah. Of looking at fingerprints on stainless steel appliances, , and so here we are. And nothing really, I, nothing else really works. Like you can't just clean that stuff off.  [00:36:24] Angela: Just doesn't come off. You can't normally, So. Okay. , I feel like a, See, I have not jumped on this. [00:36:32] Okay, well I thought I was the last one, so not the last one. So bad, . But I have to tell you, Jeremy is like, he wants stainless steel appliance cleaner, and I'm like, Why? Who cares? .  [00:36:42] Maren: That is so funny. That's really interesting because usually I, you know, I, I'm, I, if you knew Angela and I, if all of you listened, knew Angela, you might think that I would be the one who cared a lot less about this, but I really do. [00:36:56] I, I, like, I cleaned my kitchen and I'm like, I did [00:37:00] all that work and  [00:37:01] Angela: it, you know, and can still see like water spots when you. Yeah, exactly. Or other junk  [00:37:08] Maren: drinks. Yeah. You know, like, I may have cleaned it off, but it just looks gross.  [00:37:11] Angela: I get it. I'm like, it's just gonna get dirty again. I d I know . No, but  [00:37:16] Maren: seriously, this makes it look brand new. [00:37:18] Oh, I bet. It's amazing. It's so amazing. You might, and it just like, it's like the finishing touch, but you don, you do have to still. There's still gross stuff, sticky stuff that doesn't, you know, that's not what this is for. Oh, no. Sticky polish fingers. Yeah, this is like a Polish. It just shines it up. It makes it look nice. [00:37:35] Okay. Okay.  [00:37:36] Angela: Gotcha.  [00:37:37] Maren: And. It's just, I don't know. It makes me feel so happy because That's awesome. I'm seriously, for seven years, it's, Hasn't , , Like a week after we got into appliances, it was, they were gross and they stayed gross. Oh. So yeah.  [00:37:51] Angela: Yeah. Till this year. I get it. I mean, that is one downside to stainless steel appliances. [00:37:56] Maren: It is, yeah. Yeah. And it's super easy. Like it took, you [00:38:00] know, it takes five minutes to clean your appliances, and then they just, it just like brightens everything up. I love it.  [00:38:04] Angela: Okay. I should, should probably do that. Do you put it, do you have a stainless steel sink?  [00:38:10] Maren: I do, and I haven't tried it in there and,  [00:38:12] Angela: but I should, you know, it's the one area I, I could possibly  [00:38:15] Maren: do. [00:38:15] You know what I used in there? What, what is the magic erasers? Yeah. I use that in my  [00:38:21] Angela: sink and it works great in a stainless steel sink. Yes. Interesting. Yeah. Okay.  [00:38:28] Maren: It gets out a lot. It's amazing. Okay. Well, I don't know. This would do that too. Maybe it would. Okay. You  [00:38:34] Angela: would. Okay. Well, I'll tell Jeremy all about your new product by Wing [00:38:41] Maren: Sounds good. All right. Angela, what are you living this  [00:38:43] Angela: week? Okay, so you have probably heard me talk about bookshop.org before. Bookshop.org is a place that you can order all of your books. So, and this is like an alternative to Amazon, and they support independent bookstores through bookshop.org. [00:38:59] So [00:39:00] you, once you purchase a book on bookshop, you, or before you purchase a book, you choose which independent bookstore you would like the proceeds to go to. Yes. And so a lot of independent, independent bookstores around the country. bookshop.org, like storefront basically. So it's like shopping online for them. [00:39:21] Maren: Right. And like all of our affiliate links for books  [00:39:23] Angela: go to Yes. bookshop.org too. Right? Cause we have our own, We have a shop too. But, and I've been using, this is just, you know, I still use Amazon. Of course. I, I have to, but you know. Mm-hmm. . I definitely have a love hate relationship with Amazon because I love. [00:39:39] I mean, it's so convenient, right? Yeah. But then also I don't like supporting Amazon, and so this is just one way that I can That I can like move a gr set of purchases over like every time I need a book, I just go to bookshop. Yep. Okay. So I've been doing that for a few years. It's been great. What I hadn't done yet and what I wanna tell you all about [00:40:00] is their audio books. [00:40:01] I have still been using audio audible for audio books. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And I've been feeling kind guilty about it a little bit because a lot of my book purchases are audio books. Right. But Bookshop has their own audio book that's. Part component. Yeah, it's called Libro fm. It's an app just like Audible. [00:40:23] You can get a subscription just like Audible, except it's supporting an independent bookstore. And so I just decided to do it like a few weeks ago and it's amazing. I love it. And right now they have a deal where if you join libro FM right now, you get two free audiobook. So that's how I did it. When I joined, I got two free audiobook books. [00:40:44] And I wanna tell you about one of them, which I have been loving you too. Yes. It's called All My Rage. Ooh, By, I'm interested .  [00:40:53] Maren: Okay.  [00:40:54] Angela: By Saba to here. Okay. Okay. This is a fiction y a book, [00:41:00] but love it. It is really, really well done. It is about two Pakistani teenagers. Mm-hmm. who are family friends as they're growing up in. [00:41:11] California. And there's just a lot of, there's all the trigger warnings possible probably are in this book because it's really sad. So I don't know that you would like it mind because it's Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very sad. But I'm in the sad books. , I'm into sad books. I'm into like Just hearing real true stories and Yes. [00:41:30] Of people and getting, getting through hard things. So for sure that's what this is. And there's, it's, But the, but the thing is, it's so well written. I know it's y and I hate to say this, but it doesn't seem like y a, it's only Y because the characters are in high school. Okay. But it's just. Because a lot of ye is really well written. [00:41:50] So this is a really well written ye book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is beautiful on audio. So you've on  [00:41:58] Maren: audio. Okay. That's great to [00:42:00] know about audio too. But you've introduced me to so many good y eight books,  [00:42:05] Angela: so I mean, you could try, I trust you on this because you might like the story because also it's like you're learning about a culture that you're, for me, that I'm not as familiar with, and so that also is, I really liked learning about that. [00:42:17] Maren: Yeah. That's also some of my favorite reading is just  [00:42:20] Angela: reading so different cultures for sure. You so what? Sad you might you might be okay with it. Yeah, I dunno. So anyway, it's really good. So I got that on LiRo fm, so you know, that's so awesome. Even if you don't end up using LiRo fm, you could just go over and get your two free audio books right now you get two free audiobook. [00:42:38] Yeah, I'm going. Thank  [00:42:40] Maren: you. You should. Thank you. I will. All right. We want to thank our three season sponsors Blossom and Root Out School and Night Zookeeper. Be sure to check out their links in our show notes.  [00:42:55] Angela: This podcast is created and hosted by Angela Se and Marron Gorse. [00:43:00] We are listener supported. [00:43:01] To get extra content and the Back to School summit free with your membership, go to patreon.com/homeschool unrefined. Subscribe to our newsletter and get our free top 100 inclusive book list@homeschoolunrefined.com slash new. You can find Mar on Instagram at Unrefined Mar and at Always Learning with Maron. [00:43:22] You can find Angela at unrefined. Angela.

Join us as we talk about what to do when kids push back. When our kids push back, it can look disrespectful, mean or lazy... and their communication can be sub-par. We're here to help you excavate what's underneath that non-preferred behavior and really support you and your kids in getting what you all need. We’ll also talk about if it’s ever ok to push our kids. Fall 2022 Season Sponsors   We are so grateful to our Fall 2022 Season Sponsors. Use the links below for their special offerings:   Blossom & Root and use code HSUnrefined15 for 15% off your purchase   Outschool and use code Unrefined for $20 off your first class    Night Zookeeper for a 7-day, risk-free trial, as well as 50% off an annual subscription  LTWs    Maren: Blue Diamond Sweet Thai Chili Almonds   Angela: The Ordinary Peeling Solution   Connect with us!  Visit our website  Sign up for our newsletter and get our Top 100 Inclusive Book List We are listener supported! Support us on Patreon Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and see video episodes now on Youtube Angela on Instagram: @unrefinedangela | Maren on Instagram: @unrefinedmaren and @alwayslearningwithmaren  Email us any questions or feedback at homeschoolunrefined@gmail.com   Complete Episode Transcript   [00:00:09] Hi, we're Maren and Angela of Homeschool, Unrefined. Over the past 25 years, we've been friends, teachers, homeschool parents, and podcasters together. With our master's degrees and 20 years combined homeschooling experience, we're here to rethink homeschooling, learning, and education with an inclusive and authentic lens. [00:00:30] At Homeschool, Unrefined, we prioritize things like giving yourself credit, building strong connections, respectful parenting, interest led playing, and learning. Learning differences, mental health, self-care, listening to and elevating LGBTQ plus and BIPOC voices. We are here to encourage and support you. [00:00:52] Whether you're a new homeschooler, a veteran, you love curriculum, you're an unschooler. Whether all your kids are at home or all [00:01:00] your kids are in school or somewhere in between, wherever you are on your journey, we are the voice in your head telling you, You're doing great and so are your kids. This episode is 1 96 when kids push back. [00:01:13] We'll talk about what to do when kids push back and whether it's ever okay to push your kids, and then we'll end like we always do with our lt. Ws loving this. Something new that we wanted to tell you about this season is we are doing transcripts for every single episode. [00:01:33] Mm-hmm. . Those you can find on our website or in the podcast app that you're using in the show notes. We're also doing video episodes, so if you'd rather watch us on video, you can do that too. Yeah. Yeah, and links to those are in the show notes and it's just on our YouTube page. We are starting something new this season where we are bringing you three new sponsors for the entire fall season. [00:01:58] We were very intentional about [00:02:00] who we chose for sponsors, and we really appreciate you taking the time to learn about them because we think they're just really good companies and they're giving us discount codes, so you'll wanna listen for those. We are so happy to work hard on this podcast and we appreciate the financial support in making it happen. [00:02:17] We know from experience that finding a homeschool history curriculum tells that tells stories from multiple perspectives is an almost impossible task. That's why we're excited about the work Blossom and Root is doing. Blossom and Root is a nature focused secular homeschool curriculum focusing on creativity. [00:02:40] Science, nature, literature, and the arts. Blossom and root has been gently encouraging in supporting homeschooling families around the globe since 2016. Blossom and Root currently offers curricula for pre-K through fifth grade with new levels being added in the future. Additionally, a [00:03:00] three volume inclusive US history curriculum told from a variety of viewpoints is currently in development. [00:03:08] As of August, 2022, volume one is available for purchase and volume two is a available on presale all profits from this history curriculum. A River of Voices will be used to support storytellers and artists from historically excluded communities. You can find samples, scope, and sequences and information about each of their levels. [00:03:33] Blossom and root.com. You can also find them on Instagram at Blossom and Route. Blossom and Root has created a special discount for our listeners. Use the code Hs. Unrefined 15 at checkout for 15% off your purchase. Biology, Coloring Club, Math Frog, Life Cycle Grammar, Star Wars, the Old Republic. These are just a sampling of classes our kids have taken throughout school.[00:04:00]  [00:04:00] We know that kids who love to learn don't just prepare for the future. They create it. That's why Out School has reimagined online learning to empower kids and teens to expand their creativity, wonder and knowledge. Empathetic, passionate teachers encourage learners ages three to 18 to explore their interests, connect with diverse peers from around the world, and take an active role in leading their learning out. [00:04:24] School has created a world filled with endless possibilities for every schooling journey. Explore over 140,000 fun and flexible live online classes to find the right fit for your family and join us as we set learning. Sign up today at Out schooler.me/homeschool unrefined, and get up to $20 off your first class when you enroll with the code. [00:04:49] Unrefined teaching creative writing and reading in a way that is fun and accessible is a necessity. That's where Night Zookeeper comes in. Is your child a reluctant [00:05:00] writer? Do they struggle with reading? If your answer to either of these questions is yes, the Night Zookeeper may be just what you're looking for. [00:05:08] Night Zookeeper is an online learning program for children aged six to 12 years. That uses a gamified and creative approach to help to keep kids engaged and focused on developing awesome reading and writing skills, all while having fun at the same time. Some of the features we love include the educational games, the personalized feedback on writing from real tutors. [00:05:34] And the super safe community pages where children can work with each other and learn together. If Night Zookeeper sounds like the perfect learning program for your child, you can try it for free by clicking on the link in the show notes. When you register, you'll get a seven day risk free trial, as well as a huge 50% off an annual subscription. [00:05:54] That's a great deal if you ask me. [00:05:56] All right, Marin. We are here [00:06:00] today for our main topic, which is about kids pushing back. Mm-hmm. . And this is, we chose this topic because we hear about it all the time. We hear, we hear about it all the time, and we hear it happening all the time. . Yeah. We experience it, we hear it happening. Yep. Yeah, , we experience it and hear that others are experiencing it often. [00:06:21] It may not be worded exactly like my child is pushing back, but it might be like, My kid doesn't wanna do this thing, or this subject is stressful, or something like that. Mm-hmm. . And so we wanted to talk about it, or it could be my kid. Being disrespectful or my kid is being really whiny, , you know, that's what it can, can sound like often. [00:06:44] Right, right. Or lazy. Or Right, right, right. Something, something like that. And we, we know that this is a common occurrence in for homeschool families. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. at different, lots of different ages and stages. [00:07:00] And we know that it's really tough, . Right. And I think it's probably, I mean, I think we know it's even more common probably in homeschool than if our kids were going to school. [00:07:12] They're with the person they trust and feel the most comfortable with. Our kids are gonna be their true selves in front of the, you know, their most, their most, the safest environment they have, which is for sure your home . For sure. For sure. And so really they're being vulnerable too when they're sharing, when they're, when they're pushing back, right? [00:07:33] I mean, you guys, we all know that kids Break down when they come home or when they're home because they feel it's a safe place to do that. And so it makes sense that this would also happen during homeschool time. And I do think it's one of the challenges that homeschool parents face because I think If you've heard about kids in school or if you've experienced your child in school, you know that sometimes they, there isn't that breakdown, there isn't that pushback. [00:07:59] Right.[00:08:00] With teachers or even you may have experienced it with like them doing a sports class or a co-op class or something. Yeah. But then when they're at home with you, they really do push back. And so I think that can be a special homeschool challenge. Oh yes. Yes, for sure. And it, it is true though, and I do think this happens too when my kids do go to do one of those classes or whatever and come back, they can sometimes talk about how much, you know, they can tell me how hard that thing was too. [00:08:30] Yeah, yeah. You know, But it's not until they come home sometimes, For sure. For sure. Yep. Yep. And so I think what can be really hard about this is you have had a vision of what your homeschool might look like or what you might be doing for a particular subject. Or you might have a vision of us all being like, happy together, or this be a really cozy setting. [00:08:52] And so you have this vision, you've spent time thinking about it, you've spent. Time planning, you spent [00:09:00] energy planning, you've probably spent money. Mm-hmm. on different curriculum or like different setup things and you know, your kid like may have been on board with whatever you're do you were doing at one time too. [00:09:13] Like they may have said like, Exactly, yeah, this is what I wanna do. Mm-hmm. and it may have worked for a while and then all of a sudden it doesn't. So I think that's what makes it especially hard is that you can feel like. Yes, it can felt very confusing. Cause we, you're like, I'm so in, we're so in tune with each other. [00:09:30] We did the whole thing that we, you know, like in our in our back to school summer, we talk a lot about having this meeting at the beginning of the year. You know? Yeah. Talk about your hopes and dreams and be really collaborative with each other. You may have done all of that . Yeah. Right. And you're like, I am a really tuning into my kid and I'm doing this thing. [00:09:47] Mm-hmm. , then they're still just like, No, I don't wanna do that. . Yeah. Oh, that's so hard. It's heartbreaking. Right, right. Or then it may also be just a thing that that is a real big priority to [00:10:00] you. It's a really big priority to you. It's so important. This is something that we need to do and, and you, and maybe you're thinking, but I've like I've, you know, like. [00:10:11] Changed so many of my plans and or, you know, like I've, we've worked so much on other things, like, I've allowed you to do these things. I've let you do this. I've let you do this. Just do this one thing for me. Please. Just do this one thing for me. Yeah. I mean, and so it feels like like, oh, they're just, you know, it could be just, they're. [00:10:29] It may seem like they are spoiled or, you know, like you're like, I've given you everything . Yeah. Everything you want, You, you get to do so much. You have so much freedom. And then I just want you to do this one thing. Mm-hmm. , come on. You know? Mm-hmm. . So I think that there is a pain point there for sure. Yeah. [00:10:44] Especially when you've put so much thought and planning into it and money. Right.  [00:10:50] And so the way that our kids are pushing back is probably not like, Hey, mom, ideal. Mm-hmm. , can we have a meeting? Yeah. I'm not[00:11:00] , I'm enjoy Do math right now or something. Right? It's not gonna look like that. It's gonna look like something hard. It's gonna look, They might look like they're cry. They might be crying. [00:11:10] Mm-hmm. , they might be refusing, they might be manipulating you. They might be you know, they might look like manipulation off. They could look like, Yes. Look like manipulation. They could be being disrespectful. Mm-hmm. . There are lots of things it can look like, and that's, that's okay. That's them communicating. [00:11:30] That is them communicating to you. Right, Right, right. And it's our, not our job in that moment to fix the way they're communicating to us what's wrong. I think that that is a big mistake that we all, and that might be even hard to wrap your head around right now at this moment when I'm saying it, because I think what we as parents, Wanna do is correct. [00:11:52] Like we can't perpetuate this bad behavior. Yeah. By listening to them when they're acting this way. And I [00:12:00] think that's a mistake. Parents. I think that's a mistake. Mm-hmm. , I think what we do need to say is I hear you. I see that this is not working. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna, we're gonna work on that first. [00:12:13] I'm gonna be take responsible, you know, responsibility for what's not going well be of, because of like what I've planned and what's, what's going on here. Mm-hmm. , I'm gonna work on that. I'm gonna take responsibility for that. And, you know, like, let's, let's work together here and. Then like at a very, in a distant time, when they're, when the emotions are back to regulated mm-hmm. [00:12:35] and you've moved, you know, you've moved on emotionally from this tough situation, then you can say that's when you can work on communication skills, the way they communicated it, the way they communicated it, and it doesn't even, you don't even necessarily have to go back to rehash that. Scenario, right? [00:12:52] Cause that could just bring it all back up. It could be like, I wanna talk everybody about like, if you're ever having a problem with something, this is what you could do. You know, just moving [00:13:00] forward, here's what we can do. Yeah, yeah. Right. Just talk about it in general. In general or, Yeah, exactly. Yeah. [00:13:07] Because I think a lot of times when kids are trying to say something and it's, it comes out as disrespectful. Parents, including myself, I've done this focus on the disrespectful nature of what they're saying, Right? They do. Yes. Which is not the point, which is, which is really they're just trying to get heard trying to get heard. [00:13:26] Yep. So, And it can be tempting to do that because you're like, Wait, you shouldn't talk to me like that. Like, I don't talk to you like that. And I, we, we don't talk to each other like that, right? It can be tempting to focus on that first, but I think we really need to take a step back and be like, You know what, we'll deal with that later. [00:13:42] Right now they're trying to communicate with me that something's not working. Right? Yep. So you can say something like, Hey I hear that I see you, that you're really upset and something's not working. Mm-hmm. , can we talk about that? Mm-hmm. , or do we need to take a break right now? Cause you might need to take a break because maybe emotions are high or whatever. [00:13:59] Take a break. Let's [00:14:00] come back later and talk about it. Cuz I see that you're trying to communicate with me that something's not working. Yes. And I think what happens in that situation is you are not perpetuating the bad behavior. What you're saying is you actually don't. To act like that, I will listen to you. [00:14:13] Mm mm-hmm. . And so next time they might be like, they might actually next time or maybe in five times, I don't know. Or maybe when they're more mature, eventually they're gonna be like, actually, I don't need to put up such a fuss. My mom just listens to me. My parent just listens to me. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So actually you are untangling that for sure. [00:14:36] That's so true, Maren, because I think a lot of people can think like, Well, I, we need to address the disrespectful, but like, I, like I just said, you know, like, we need to address this. Mm-hmm. , and it's Yeah, because it hurts, but you're doing, you're doing it in a different way. Right, Right, right. In a different. [00:14:51] You're showing them, I love you, I care about you. I see that you are hurting and let's talk about it. Yep. I love and care about you and I value you [00:15:00] no matter how you're acting, when you're really stressed out. Mm-hmm. . Yes. You know, as a child. Yeah. I mean, as adults, when we're really stressed out, we don't always act. [00:15:10] Ideally, I don't want We're adults. Yep. For adults. Yep. So our kids have not developed their brain yet. They haven't For sure. They're not even really capable. Sure. Yet. Yet. Yet. Right. They will be So when kids are pushing back, they are telling you something's not working. Mm-hmm. , It can be a variety of different things that aren't working and they might not even be able to name it. [00:15:35] They might say like, I hate. Writing or whatever, like, I hate writing, but what they might really be saying is like, it might not be the subject, it might be the curriculum you're using. Yes. It might be the time of day that you're doing it. Right. They might be hungry, they might be tired. prob, They probably are. [00:15:57] Yeah. Hungry. Maybe they're [00:16:00] curriculum is too hard. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Right. Maybe it's too easy. Maybe it's too boring. You know what? It might be too boring because a lot of curriculum is boring, so you know, it, Chances are it might be too boring. Yeah. It might be that they didn't have a say in picking it out. [00:16:17] Yeah, and I would also just add, like I, I think there are ki there are just with learning differences, there might just be an adjustment that needs to happen. Like my, I have a kid who whenever it's like I reading or writing, Boring, quote unquote. Yeah. Boring. They use the word boring. They use the word boring, but honestly they are. [00:16:38] They listen to audio books like nonstop. Yeah. And tell stories and like, yeah. They're so creative about other things. It's just like, it's like the eye reading is just such a, a strain. It's hard. Slog. It's a slog. And then same with like physical hand, like writing things down is real. It's like [00:17:00] there's also some like fine motor skills that are really developing there too, so, Okay. [00:17:04] Mm-hmm. , it's boring. Let's, let's like, Really drilled down into what that what do you mean it's boring? Right. Cause like for that kid it might be like the actual work of it is, is boring. Yeah, it probably is. Yes. But not like the subject of writing or reading. , right? Yeah. Or if it's reading, maybe it's not necessarily just the subject of Ring. [00:17:26] I mean, I think a lot, I mean, any kid could probably enjoy reading if they had the right maybe topic of book. Mm-hmm. You know, and a very high interest thing. Right. There's a lot of things we can do within the subject too. Right? Yeah, that's true. Make it That's true. Make it more, Yeah. Yeah. Relevant. So when, what to do when your kids push back. [00:17:48] Mm-hmm. . I think the thing you don't wanna do is power through . Right. I think, I think that although I have tried that, I, I have tried that. We've all tried that. No judgment. No judgment. [00:18:00] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . But powering through never seems to work for, for me. Right. But I think when kids push back, we wanna stop what we're doing and connect first. [00:18:10] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So maybe that's listening to them. Maybe that is. Telling them that you hear them and see them and care about them and that you're gonna figure this out together. Right. Maybe that's saying, Hey, you know what, like I can tell that this is really stressing us both out right now. Do you wanna just go like, watch something on TV right now together? [00:18:30] Yes. And pedal, you know, just completely changing things up. Totally. Yeah, and you can also just not. You can also just decide this is not for us. Right, Right now for sure. You know's like you're not even gonna try tomorrow, is what you're saying. Not gonna try tomorrow. This is not, Yeah. You can take a break for however long you need to. [00:18:49] Right, Right, right. For it. Exactly. Yep. You might try again tomorrow. You might try next week. You might try in a couple months. Right, Right. And, and you can also do it differently like we talked [00:19:00] about. There are some things that you can do differently. You can try a different angle, but it often does, there often does, has to have to be you know, a break in the emotion. [00:19:08] There has to be a a, a period where The memory of this tough thing may, may, like, make it tough to even try it in a different way. Mm-hmm. , So you wanna give it time for sure. Yes. Depending on what your child needs or you need for sure. It's different for everyone, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so When you decide to try it again after your break mm-hmm. [00:19:30] You might try a new curriculum. Yes. You might try something completely different like an app. Yep. You, you might, another thing you could do is outsource it. To like, maybe they take a class online, maybe they do it at a co-op or something. Maybe you change the time of date. Maybe you do it before bed. [00:19:48] Okay. I love that one because that's outside of the box thinking that I think a lot of kids need, Okay. They need us to be thinking outside of the box. We think we have to do school between eight and three or something, you know, [00:20:00] whatever's in our mind. Yeah. Yeah. Learning happens all the time. Yeah, it really does for. [00:20:04] That's so true. And it could be different for everybody. It could be before bed, it could be that your partner takes, takes it on. Yes. Maybe you're just like, You know what? I can't do this subject with this child because it's too hard for both of us right now. Can you take it on? Yep. Maybe you just don't do it at all. [00:20:19] Right? I dunno. There's a lot of, you have a lot of choices and. I was just gonna also say, I think it's really important for us, this is where I think, and we talk about this so much on the podcast, is to notice all the learning that's already happening around you. Mm-hmm. , there's so much learning that's happening around you. [00:20:34] If you, if you, you know, took notes on all the ways your kids are learning throughout the day, you may not feel like you really have to do all the things that you've planned cuz they are learning so much. Maybe even the. Subject and skill that you're trying to directly teach over here? Maybe they've, they're doing it naturally on their own. [00:20:53] Yeah. Throughout the day, or maybe not exactly, but like there's still. [00:21:00] Our, our job is, you know, to have our kids practice learning. We want them to get into the habit of learning. It doesn't always even matter the exact thing that they're learning. They're in the habit of learning. When they're the habit of learning, they're going to continue to learn for the rest of their lives. [00:21:18] And so to, to be like really a stickler about the exact thing they're gonna learn today is can kill. That habit of learning. Right? And so then, then, okay, they learn that one thing today, but they're not gonna learn as much for the rest of their lives. So what we really want is the continued learning. [00:21:37] Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . So given all that, is it ever okay to push your kids? Mm-hmm. ? I think. This is an interesting question because mm-hmm. , I think a lot of times I think people have different opinions on it, so I would love to hear, Oh, for sure. Mar, what do you think about, Is it ever okay to push your kids? [00:21:57] I do think it's good. I, I [00:22:00] like to use, we've said this on the podcast before, to stretch without breaking. You wanna stretch without breaking. And especially this works really well when it's something your kids. Are willing and excited about working on it's like the book Grit talks about this a lot. [00:22:17] I think it's Angela Duckworth is the author. Yeah. You know, she talks a lot about how grit is not working hard on something you hate doing. It's, you know, working hard on the things that you can get in the flow with and for sure excited about. And so they, those are the ideal places. Push your kids, honestly. [00:22:34] You know, and I don't mean like push out of their, you know too, Right. Stretch. Stretch. Yes, for sure. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I do think that's ideal. Mm-hmm. When kids are really into something, but I think a lot of times they're not, you know, like some, sometimes they're just not like, you know, and this, there might be something that you just think is really important. [00:22:54] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think sometimes it is okay. I, I think especially as kids get older mm-hmm. , so like, maybe [00:23:00] I'm talking like middle school age. Yes. I think it's okay to sometimes push them. I think sometimes they need to try it and see that they can overcome this or what Definitely. Yeah. Or they can flex these certain muscles. [00:23:11] They might need to know what that feels like. I do wanna, I do think in the middle school, and I actually just had a conversation with middle school teachers about this , about how middle schoolers are often, often asking, What's in it for me? What's in it for me? And I think that we all agreed that's a valid question because. [00:23:30] Doing work that they don't care about is not, there's nothing in it for them for sure. So I think that it's very important to listen to your middle schooler especially so that they understand there is like there's something, they do get something out of it. Yeah. And maybe it's something completely unrelated to the actual learning. [00:23:45] You get to do something that I don't usually let you do or whatever it is, you know you know, we're gonna go get a treat after this or something. Yeah. I think that that is valid. I don't think there's anything wrong with. Especially for a kid with a learning difference, especially adhd, there [00:24:00] is no dopamine hit you get from accomplishing something you didn't wanna do in the first place. [00:24:05] So there has to be some sort of, you have to provide that yourselves. Yeah. If you want them to continue to do these, push themselves in ways they never really wanted to in the first place. Yeah, I totally agree with that. There are lots of things I don't wanna do and Exactly right. Sometimes I give myself rewards. [00:24:24] Yeah. For doing them right. , I say like, when I'm done with this, I can do this. And so I do think having those conversations with your kids is important. Like, Yes. This does not have to be a day filled with a bunch of things you don't like to do. Right? Right. Yes. You're, you're not into this, but it's important. [00:24:39] Okay. What could we do after mm-hmm. to make it worth it for you. Mm-hmm. . And you do want, you want them, you know, when, when we do give those, you know, outside rewards or whatever, I, for me, the po the, the goal is, and you reference this, Angela, is my, the goal is for them to feel. [00:25:00] The accomplishment, but they aren't willing to try it to feel the accomplishment until they get a little, you know, outside motivation or whatever. [00:25:06] Yeah. Yeah. So eventually they'll feel the accomplishment, but they might not ever feel that if it's something they don't like to do. Yeah. If it's something they do like to do and they're still scared to try it or whatever, that's what we're dealing with at our house. Like, I know you're gonna love this. [00:25:20] I just, I need you to try it. And Then I feel like then eventually they don't, they don't need the outside rewards, you know, they get it internally. And that is the ultimate goal, is to be like, Oh, you felt so good doing that, and you saw this, you know, this growth and the accomplishments and you should be so proud of yourself. [00:25:41] And that's like, Yes. And I would say too, like, you know your child best, right? Yes. Yes. I think sometimes this is appropriate, sometimes it's not. Sometimes for sure the thing that you're trying to do isn't really necessary. So I would ask yourself those tough questions. Mm-hmm. And see [00:26:00] where you can give a little too. [00:26:02] And yeah, I would try not, I mean, like, I don't know, I just, I hear from a lot of people or a lot of situations that like, homeschool is a struggle and there's lots of crying and my kid doesn't wanna do this or whatever. And I just think that that sh that shouldn't be the majority of it. Right. Right. You, you have to be a good judge of when it's appropriate to do a little bit of nudging. [00:26:26] And I also think like you know, you can't do that the whole day, so no. You have to really pick what you have to pick. Yep. Mm-hmm. , you have to pick when it's, when to use that. When are you willing to use that? Cuz you don't have many of those ships in your pocket. You really don't. Right. And my kids too are sometimes even when I give the outside, you know, dayle, the carrot in front of them, they're like, No, no, thanks. [00:26:50] I've seen that before I got into it. No, thank you. Not worth it. And I, I get it. I understand that too. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And some, and sometimes [00:27:00] kids are so shut down that there's nothing, there's nothing, You don't even, you know, even doing, doing anything to push. Your agenda forward is just going to damage the relationship, and that's when you know it's time to just stop and connect and for sure move on. [00:27:18] Stopping and connecting is just. The most important. And then listening, just really listen to them, like, why are they not into this? Yeah. You know? And then if they're giving good reasons, like, is this really that important at this age? Right. And even if they might, they might not. That's the other thing is they might not be communicating good reasons at this point in their lives. [00:27:39] They might not be. So we have to kinda, as parents, I don't know, like it's really difficult, but. You know, we sometimes just have to read between the lines a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. , but hopefully they can, maybe you can even what you see, you can, you can talk to them about what you observe and what you [00:28:00] notice might be happening if they're not able to tell you. [00:28:03] Mm. Mm-hmm. You know, what's wrong? What I'm noticing is this, is that right? Do you think this is right or not? Yeah. Or whatever. But it'll, eventually it'll start to come out the more you practice mm-hmm. , that kind of communication. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. All right, . I hope that was helpful. Well, I hope so too. I always love talking about this kind of stuff. [00:28:25] We would love to hear your thoughts too. All right. Let's move on to lt. Ws Loving this week. Angela, what are you loving? [00:28:33] Okay. I am loving a skincare product. Now, , I hesitate in saying this cause I'm not like a skincare person and I don't necessarily know what I'm doing. So I'm not like an expert. So just this is my non-expert product opinion. Noted. Okay. . This is for a product from the ordinary. It's called a aha, 30% plus bha, 2% peeling solution. [00:28:59] Actually, I think the name is [00:29:00] just Peeling Solution. Oh, okay. Okay. So it comes in like a glass bottle with a dropper. Okay. And what you do, it's like a mask that you might wear at night to exfoliate, and you don't use it that often. You would maybe use it once, maybe twice a week at the most, right? Mm-hmm. [00:29:18] So, and it sits on your face, like it goes on kind of like a thick liquid. Oh, wow. And it sits on your face for like 10 minutes. Okay. And then you wash it off. And then the next day, your skin looks amazing. Oh my gosh, . Wow. That's what it is. So I bought this in like I just looked, 2019 was when I bought it the first time, and I just ran out and reordered. [00:29:43] So like I've had it for a long time now. I don't think I've been using it every week. Yeah. I think I've gone a few weeks in the middle without, But it, my point is it lasts a long time. It's $8. Wow. It's $8 on the ordinary.com. I like a lot of ordinary products. Oh yeah. So you could probably [00:30:00] get a few different things there. [00:30:02] But I really love this one because it's basically like it peels off. Dead skin. I think that's amazing. This is my unprofessional terminology. It peels off your dead skin. Cause I feel like there is some ex, a lot of exfoliating products out there that I don't feel. Does that necessarily? Yeah, this really does that. [00:30:23] Okay. So like whenever I'm like, my face starts to look, you know, where. Ugh. What's going on here? Like, it looks dull. Or like, I have some flakiness, I have some dry skin sometimes at the top, like in my forehead, and then I go, Oh yeah, I forgot I could do my, you could do my mask. Ooh. So I do it at night, like when I'm taking a bath and I just let it sit there. [00:30:45] It does tingle does it? Which can become, It can feel weird. Okay. Okay. Shingles, but like, cuz that means it's working. I don't know. Okay. Okay. You wipe it off and then you just put. Put some moisturizer on top of it. You can go to bed and [00:31:00] like I said, the next day you wake up and you're like, Wow, what happened? [00:31:02] Oh wow, this looks great. So I'm so excited about this. Yeah. So yeah, I wanted to let you all know that it's a really. Cheap and easy. Great way to, That's a good excuse to order a few things from the ordinary . Yeah. Right? Yes, yes. Mm-hmm. . All right. Martin, what are you loving this week? Okay. I'm loving a very simple snack and it's it's blue but blue diamond almonds, and they have newer flavor called Sweet Thai Chili. [00:31:30] I get these from, Costco. So a very large bag, , very large bag of these. And I'm telling you, I think I might be the only one who eats them in my family and they go fast. So that's telling me I'm, I'm the one who, they're eating a lot, very large bag of these almonds. They're so delicious. And I just, you know, obviously protein filled, which I need in the middle of the day. [00:31:58] Yeah. I need more [00:32:00] protein. Yeah. To keep going. These are great, great snacks. This is a great snack. I need new, I need new great snack ideas. Cause honestly, like snacks leave me lacking. I agree. Same. And I, I'm happy to eat something healthy if it's easy. Yeah. If it's easy, I will eat it. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And this is, you know, Yeah. [00:32:23] And it's so tasty. It's, you know, it's just like, it's a, it's sweet. It's a little sweet. It's a little spicy. Which I love. The only thing I don't like is that it gets my fingers. I was gonna say, do they? Yeah. Yeah. I don't like that. I do not like that. But I, It's obviously very worth it to me, , because I continue, continue to buy these every time. [00:32:45] That's awesome. Shop at Costco. . That's great. And they're just for you because your kids aren't into them, so they're just for me. I'm sure. I'm sure my husband eats them too. I don't know. He must, He must. I keep telling myself that. Because they You must. You must. [00:33:00] Yeah. Right, right. That's what I think. I hide. [00:33:03] I do have chocolate that I hide because I'm like, People, you cannot keep eating this. This is just for me. Yes. Which I know every parent probably hides. Definitely. So, Okay. Yep. Same. All right. Well thank you everybody for being here today. Special thank you to our three sponsors, Blossom and Ro Out School and Knight Zookeeper. [00:33:26] Be sure to check out their links in our show notes. This podcast is created and hosted by Angela C and Mar Gorse. We are listener support. To get extra content and the Back to School summit free with your membership, go to patreon.com/homeschool unrefined. Subscribe to our newsletter and get our free top 100 inclusive book list@homeschoolunrefined.com slash newsletter. [00:33:54] You can find Maren on Instagram at unrefined Maren, and at Always Learning With [00:34:00] Maren Find Angela at unrefined Angela.

Join us as we talk about creative writing and inspiring our children with Josh Davidson. Fall 2022 Season Sponsors   We are so grateful to our Fall 2022 Season Sponsors. Use the links below for their special offerings:   Blossom & Root and use code HSUnrefined15 for 15% off your purchase   Outschool and use code Unrefined for $20 off your first class    Night Zookeeper for a 7-day, risk-free trial, as well as 50% off an annual subscription  LTWs    Maren: Warby Parker   Angela: All You Can Ever Know by Nicole Chung   Connect with us!  Visit our website  Sign up for our newsletter and get our Top 100 Inclusive Book List We are listener supported! Support us on Patreon Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and see video episodes now on Youtube Angela on Instagram: @unrefinedangela | Maren on Instagram: @unrefinedmaren and @alwayslearningwithmaren  Email us any questions or feedback at homeschoolunrefined@gmail.com   Complete Episode Transcript   [00:00:00]  [00:00:08] Maren: Hi, we're Maren and Angela of homeschool, unrefined. Over the past 25 years, we've been friends, teachers, homeschool parents and podcasters. Together with our master's degree and 20 years combined homeschooling. We are here to rethink homeschooling, learning, and education with an inclusive and authentic  [00:00:26] Angela: lens. [00:00:27] At Homeschool Unrefined, we prioritize things like giving yourselves credit, building strong connections, respectful parenting, interest led playing and learning, learning differences, mental health, self-care, listening to and elevating LGBTQ plus and PAC Voices.  [00:00:47] Maren: We are here to encourage and support you. [00:00:51] Whether you're a new homeschooler, a veteran, you love curriculum, you're an unschooler. Whether all of your kids are at home or all of your kids are in [00:01:00] school or somewhere in between. Wherever you are on your journey, we're the voice in your head telling you, you're doing great, and so are your.  [00:01:08] Angela: This is episode 1 95, Sparking Inspiration with Josh Davidson. [00:01:14] We are gonna talk about creative writing and inspiring our children, and then we'll end like we always do with our lt. Ws are loving this  [00:01:22] Maren: week. Yes. And we wanted to give you a quick reminder that a. Few. We have a few new exciting updates to our podcast this year. Number one, we are including transcripts with all of our episodes. [00:01:35] So if you look at the show notes, you're gonna see transcripts. So you can check through everything we've said and if you wanna go back and get some of the details of what we talked about. Find it  [00:01:44] Angela: there. Yes. And those are in your right, in your podcast app. We also have them on our website.  [00:01:49] Maren: Yes. Which episode? [00:01:50] Yep. Yep. So that's at homeschool fine.com/episodes. So it'll be right in there. And then also we are also publishing our podcast [00:02:00] episodes. In video this season. And so you can go to YouTube and find our channel homeschool owner, Finded, and we even have a playlist specifically for the fall 2022 season. [00:02:11] And we have our videos. You're gonna see us on screen recording our episodes.  [00:02:16] Angela: Yeah. So that's very exciting. If you prefer that method. Yeah, you can get that there. Okay. So we are starting something new this season where we are bringing you three new sponsors for the entire fall season. We were very intentional about who we chose for sponsors. [00:02:29] We appreciate you taking the time to learn about them because we think they're really good companies. Also, they're giving discount codes, so you wanna listen for those. We are so happy to work hard on this podcast, and we appreciate the financial support in making  [00:02:42] Maren: it. Here at Homeschool under fine. You know we're all about making your life easier. [00:02:47] That's why we are excited to introduce you to Night Zookeeper. Is your child a reluctant writer? Do they struggle with reading? If your answer to either of these questions is yes, then night [00:03:00] zookeeper may be just what you're looking for. Night Zookeeper is an online learning program for children, ages six to 12 years old that uses a gamified and creative approach to help keep kids engaged and focus on developing awesome reading and writing skills all while having fun at the same time. [00:03:19] Some of the features we love included include the educational games, the personalized feedback on writing from real tutor. And the super safe community pages where children can work with each other and learn together. If Night Zookeeper sounds like the perfect learning program for your child, you can try it for free by clicking on the link in the show notes. [00:03:42] And when you, when you register, you'll get a seven day risk free trial as well as a huge 50% off annual subscription. That's a great deal  [00:03:51] Angela: if you ask. I always had the toughest time finding a curriculum that was aligned with our values. Enter Blossom and [00:04:00] Root. Blossom and Root is a nature focused secular homeschool curriculum, focusing on creativity, science, nature, literature, and the arts. [00:04:09] Blossom and Root has been gently encouraging and supporting homeschool families around the globe since 2016. Blossom and Root currently offers curricula for pre-K through fifth grade with new levels being added in the future. Additionally, a three volume inclusive US history curriculum told from a variety of viewpoints is currently in development as of August, 2022. [00:04:32] Volume one is available for purchase, and volume two is available on pre. All profits from this history curriculum. A River of voices will be used to support storytellers and artists from historically excluded communities. You can find samples, scope, and sequences and information about each of their levels online@blossomandwrit.com. [00:04:54] You can also find them on Instagram at Blossom and Root. Blossom. Andre has [00:05:00] created a special discount for our listeners. Use the code Hs. Unrefined 15 at checkout for 15% off your purchase.  [00:05:09] Maren: Our kids have taken so many different out school classes over the years, which is why partnering with them was a no brainer. We know that kids love to learn. Kids who love to learn don't just prepare for the future, they create it. That's why Out School has reimagined online learning to empower kids and teens to expand their creativity, wonder and knowledge. [00:05:32] Empathetic, passionate teachers encourage learners ages three to 18 to explore their interests, connect with diverse peers from around the world, and take an active role in leading their learning out. School has created a world filled with endless possibilities for every schooling journey. Explore over 140,000 fun and flexible live online classes to find the right fit for you and your family, and join us as we set [00:06:00] learning. [00:06:01] Sign up today at out schooler.me/homeschool unrefined, and get up to 20% off your first class when you enroll with the code unrefined.  [00:06:13] Angela: We are excited for our main topic today, which is sparking inspiration and Creativity with Josh Davidson. Josh Davidson is the creator and managing director of Night Zookeeper, a magical inspirational brand where children discover and create imaginative animals. These animals join an interactive world and can feature in his story books on on Anani animated series on Spy Kids. In a collectible card game and an online learning program that helps children with reading and writing and unlocks their creativity, Josh is a passionate public speaker on games, education, and creativity. He has spoken at many international conferences. Additionally, he has been interviewed across BBC stations in the United Kingdom. [00:06:54] Please enjoy our conversation with Josh. [00:06:58] Maren: I want [00:07:00] to invite our guest, Josh from the Night Zookeeper here today. Thank you so much for being with us, Josh.  [00:07:08] Josh: Oh, thank you so much for having me.  [00:07:10] Maren: I'm wondering if you could just tell us, just start out by telling us a little bit about yourself and just your background.  [00:07:17] Josh: Absolutely. So, yes. So I'm Josh. [00:07:19] I'm the author of the Night Zookeeper Storybook series and the creator of night zookeeper.com, which is a website based on the the theme, if you like, of the night zookeeper stories but is an interactive website. Children are inspired to fall in love with writing and get lots of reading practice. [00:07:42] And we also help with grammar and spelling, et cetera, to sort of really convert the most reluctant. You know, there's a few of them out there, the most reluctant of young readers and writers into the authors of tomorrow. I just made up that line, but it sounds good. The authors of, of tomorrow. [00:07:57] Maren: I really love that. I really love that, and [00:08:00] I love that you have that vision. We'll talk more about that in just a little bit, but at first I wanna ask you like, how did you come up with this idea of the night zookeeper? It just, it sounds like the ideal thing for a reluctant reader or writer, and I'm wondering what, what brought you here? [00:08:16] What, what made you create.  [00:08:18] Josh: Sure. So I mean, obviously with all things in life there's a, there's an element of serendipity I heard. So during my studies I traveled to Australia. So as you say, I'm based in the uk but I did an exchange in Australia, in Melbourne, and I heard whilst I was there that their zoo was open at night. [00:08:39] And obviously I, now, I think zoos, you know, across the world, some of zoos often open, like there's a night zoo in Singapore and London Zoo late, so there's a, this is a thing. Oh wow. But at the time I didn't know anything about it. Right. And being a strange young man hearing about a night zoo I so immediately was. [00:08:56] My head was filled with time traveling elephants and [00:09:00] buying giraffes that could turn invisible. And Oh, cool. I had a little notebook and I started to write my story about this strange zoo and the sort of things that you would encounter there. Right, right. But I finished my, I was doing my, my fine art degree at the time. [00:09:14] I then did a Master's in Digital Art, and one of the modules that I was studying was called Collaborative Practices. And it was about using the internet to collaborate with others. So, you know, kind of like we're, we're doing now, right? Talking over the, the, the magical power of the internet. And it was different things that you could use the internet for to collaborate. [00:09:34] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. anyway. In trying to work out what I was going to do as part of my studies into that module, I was flicking through my notepad of ideas and I came across my short story that I'd written about the night suit, and I realized that although my story was okay, what was really lovely about the story was that it was a. [00:09:59] [00:10:00] Fundamentally of what magical animals could exist in a zoo at nighttime. Right. And not only was I as an author, you know, or a writer or whatever, I was inspired to write something, but I was pretty sure that other people would be just to tell them, you know, that that power of the night, Right. It's kind of, it always been. [00:10:18] My childhood. I think it's a very human thing that things can exist in nighttime. All the way back to the teddy bear picnic, the thing teddy bear picnic. Oh yes. No. Yeah. But the thing is gonna happen. And so yeah, I I turned this short story into a collaborative project, which was based around a website where anybody could log on and create new magical animals that would live in my fictional night suit. [00:10:41] And my best friend Paul, Hudson, who is my co-founder in Night Sweet Keeper, was a primary school teacher and he said, Josh, I want to do this with my kids in class. Yes. I said, That sounds awesome. Mm-hmm. . So he convinced his head teacher to invite me [00:11:00] in. So I came in as an artist and we ran this project where we, I, you know, I, I lied to children, which I've now made a professional career. [00:11:08] And I told them that I was a night zookeeper in a magical night zoo. And I looked after these spying giraffes and time traveling elephants. But the, The night zoo needed more animals. And we were wondering whether these, you know, these kids wanted to come up with some animals to live in the zoo, and boy did they, they absolutely went for it. [00:11:29] And it simultaneously showed me just how. Uncreative. I am because I created a draft that could turn invisible, whereas they had created a dragon fish crossed with a ham sandwich. You know, like they, they, they took things to this, this level that, That's amazing. Creativity. That was like, okay, I, I, yeah. [00:11:48] I bow down before the and, and yeah, that's where we are now. Like with that's cool. Website. That's basically that idea. That initial sort of engaging assembly, if you like, where you [00:12:00] tell kids, this is what we're gonna do through, through digital media, and then let them go for it and, you know, Yeah. [00:12:06] It's doing a pretty much a massive disservice to the website to say that that's what it does, because it's huge and, you know, we're throwing everything but the kitchen sink it, Getting kids to fall in love with reading and writing, but at the, at the very heart of. It's that it's this story that, and the power of storytelling and how that can sort of spark an individual child's imagination and how you can then channel that imagination into creative output like writing. [00:12:32] Maren: I love that because I do think when we, when we approach learning as , we, we have to do this, You have to get to this level. Then our kids often. Get to that level and maybe that's it. Maybe that's all they do. Or maybe they even struggle to get to this certain level. But when you come in as a night zookeeper, , and you're like, I want you to think of, imagine these animals, you know, the limit. [00:12:56] There's no limit. They go, they go everywhere with [00:13:00] that. Absolutely.  [00:13:00] Josh: You can see the brains, like you can see the sparks flying. Right. And what's wonderful is it's such. A UNFI for all the kids, cuz you've got kids of all different ability levels. Some totally. Some, some engaged in the activities, some not. [00:13:12] Some with, you know, have been spending the morning reading about the how a human eye works and others that have been reading about animals on a farm. Yeah. But you put them together and they've all going to, they're all gonna express themselves. They're all gonna create something. Is using their, their brain in a really interesting way, as I mentioned, that they were destroying me. [00:13:31] But then they can all relate to each other. Of course, they were, they were, yeah. Kids, 12 year old kids talking to six year old kids about their animals. Mm-hmm. Like that's wonder. So, so we see this with siblings in homeschool. So you get the older kid and the younger kids, some of the playing together for, and learning, playing together. [00:13:46] And it's, it's a wonderful way to To, to sort of, to sort of, in a way sort of forget about some of those levels that we try and think about. Yes. And because there's something so hu it's just [00:14:00] human. That's what it is. It's just human. Ultimately it's about being human and using our, you know, the gifts that we've been given and seeing how, where we can take them. [00:14:08] Maren: Exactly. And so that's, you kind of answered this question, which is why do you think creative writing is a good way. To start at such a young age. You're talking about very young kids here. So, I mean, I think you kind of answered that, but if there's anything else you wanna add, why do you think it's good to start creative writing at such a young age? [00:14:27] Josh: Oh, I like, yeah. I mean, I think that like with any anything that's innately human as a skill storytelling is. You know, the to human skill, it's right at the core of what we do and how to survive in this world, and. Yeah. Writing is, is an extension of that. But what the tools that we've built on my zookeeper, you know, of course you, the most common scenario you get with kids is that their, their brains run a million miles ahead of their, their technical ability. [00:14:59] [00:15:00] That is so true. Yes. Tell and imagining and their thinking and, and getting those thoughts and down and sort of structuring them is, is a huge challenge. But it is like zookeeper as a platform. It's built to scaffold that process so, You're not giving kids a blank piece of paper and saying, Tell me everything about this creature you've invented. [00:15:21] The way that it unfolds is, you know, you asked to draw the creature that you're imagining, then you're asked what its name is. Then you are asked, maybe it's where does it live or what does it eat? Or does it have any special abilities? And each question is, you know, almost delivered like a, a chat between yourself and the animals and the animals kind of learning about themselves. [00:15:41] And this. Means that it never feels to the kid like a daunting thing. Absolutely. It never feels like something that they can't do. And, and so from the youngest ages, they're, they're constantly having this interaction with the program, but they're also having it with themselves and anyone that's doing it [00:16:00] with, I mean, that's the other thing about, Yes, this particular experience, like it's a lovely way for a parent to engage with their child or as I mentioned, like an older sibling, to engage with the younger sibling because suddenly, You know, you are drawing each ideas out of each other and you are realizing like, Oh, where, where did you think of that? [00:16:17] Like, where did that idea come from? But like, Oh, maybe you must have heard, you know, grandpa say something about this the other day. So you're bringing that into it and it's like, Oh, this is really interesting. Where, where your mind works. Because that's where, you know, creativity is at the core of how our  [00:16:30] Maren: brains work. [00:16:31] I think that is so, you are so right about that, and I love that you're scaffolding it like that, or, and also just making maybe the most challenging parts very small. Like, do this one little thing that's challenging and actually it's so motivating because it's not like, do this one little thing that's challenging and you don't get any reward from it. [00:16:49] No, you do this one little challenging thing and then it, it, it adds to your, you know, You know, this world that you're creating and feels in  [00:16:59] Josh: your mind's so good. [00:17:00] Gives you, Yeah. So in terms of that as well, like we do this scaffolding process, not just for the younger kids, but for the older kids as well. [00:17:06] Cause you do absolutely find that you get a lot of older kids who have been turned off writing. They don't like it. Yes. They don't wanna do it. Yeah. And feels hard. It's one of the few subjects actually that we've really struggled. Globally to sort of gamify and make feel like it's fun, but not what Zuki does. [00:17:20] By doing this sort of building up of questions and answers is at the end of that process, if you are an older kid, we show you what you've done. Okay. Show you. Ooh, I like that now. I just wrote all of that without realizing it. Like here's a big, I'm doing it visually. Of course no one can see , but I've got a,  [00:17:36] Maren: I see it. [00:17:37] It's really big.  [00:17:38] Josh: An elephant sized head of writing. Yes. On the page and the kids. Even though it's just right at the back of their subconscious, they're like, Yeah, yeah, I can do that now. So whenever they're, you know, they, they see other pieces, people's writing, if they've struggled with writing stamina because they, they typically write a couple of sentences and then it's, they just don't want to write anymore. [00:17:58] Right. They're bored, [00:18:00] they're struggling. It's hard, like part of it is like with everything in life as you feel that you can do it once you've. And we are saying, Hey, you know what? You've done this. Here it is. And then the next time they come, they might not need, the older kids might not need that scaffolding approach. [00:18:15] They might wanna jump straight into that work classic kind of word processor setting because they feel like they can do it now. Yeah, you're gonna have that writing stamina. But yeah, we always provide that as a yeah, as a realization for the kids ultimately that they are.  [00:18:29] Maren: That is so great because it just builds that self confidence and their identity. [00:18:35] As you know, a lot of times our kids don't even, can't even identify as a writer, even though they certainly have all the ideas, but we just need, you know, maybe just need a few tools and then it can go, you know, wherever. You know, they have freedom to do so many things with just a few things. So Good. It's so hard though. [00:18:56] It, so many of us, especially homeschool parents [00:19:00] are feeling frustrated about reading and writing, to be honest. Right. I mean, it just, it feels like sometimes it feels like we're slogging through things. It feels like we're requiring things more than enjoying things. And so what are your tips for a, for us , for us parents at home who are like feeling frustrated right now? [00:19:20] Josh: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's it's a difficult position to be in because kids can be stubborn and Yeah. You know, once they've made up their mind about a subject or an area that they're like, Okay, no, I, I don't do that. That's not, you know, I don't like that. Or that, you know, even to the point, you know, you have kids crying when they're put in front of a piece of paper, they want to write like it breaking and they've got to that point in their brain where they're like, This is something I can't do. [00:19:44] Yes. And I guess that's the first thing to realize is that ultimately this, this is a, a feeling that's inside them that needs to be, be worked through, needs to be worked out. And of course I would say this, but no, zookeeper's a really good way of doing that because it's yeah, it's a game [00:20:00] and I, you know, whether it's night zookeeper or something else, right. [00:20:02] You need to find a game, which has a different element to it than pure writing. And you need to show the child, the, the writing part, the reading part of the writing part of that game is something that they can do because they're not focused on it. They're not thinking, This is what I'm doing. Right, Right. [00:20:20] I'm writing, they're thinking. Right, right, right. I need. I need to beat my parents at this board game, which involves a bit of writing or reading, or I need to beat my kid, you know, Or I want to create something really beautiful. There's a painting for my, my, my mom's fridge. But I'm, but then mom's asked me to give a title for it and maybe like, just write down a few things so I, she can read, read about what, what's into this castle. [00:20:43] It's just, yeah, they need, they're gonna need a breakthrough moment, I guess. That's what I would say. I don't think. You're gonna have success, you know, looking at the traditional ways of doing this. Right, right. [00:21:00] Classic sort of systems that exist. Yeah. Recognizing, made up mind and adapting the approach.  [00:21:07] Maren: I love that. [00:21:08] Yep. That's so true. It seems like a lot of times we, we definitely. Homeschool parents, us, we focus on the semantics and the, the actual like details of the, I don't know, might be punctuation or handwriting or capital, things like that, that we are, I mean, we can really focus on those things and then it gets, it becomes more about that. [00:21:33] Rather than, and what, what I hear you saying is our, the kids, our kids' strengths are often in their ideas, right? In their imagination. And the possibilities in the unreal , you know, this is this whole, they, you know, there can be a whole world. That's where their strengths lie. I feel like. And I feel like with your program, there's so much like we, you build on the strengths [00:22:00] and the other stuff kind of comes along with it. [00:22:04] I think so. But it's not the focus always. It's not like the thing they have to do.  [00:22:08] Josh: Exactly right. I think, I think a lot of it is if we're talking about you know, upskilling mm-hmm. or if you have a child that you know, will write but writes terribly Yes. And hates being paroled into doing the kind of the classic practice mm-hmm. [00:22:21] And, and editing and redrafting. Or elements within Zuki that help with that as well. So yes. First of all, we're trying to get 'em to write lots. Then anything that they're writing is part of this game is coming through to a tutor. So this isn't you, this isn't the parent and the child relationship. [00:22:39] If there's stress building up here, then take that stress away, you know, by giving this piece of work to. You know, a face on the screen could be my face, but probably not one of our, our tutoring team. But their tutoring team's face is going to be coming back on that piece of writing that your, your [00:23:00] child has put together. [00:23:01] Okay? And they're gonna know, they're gonna see the strengths in it, but they're also gonna see the weaknesses and they're gonna craft a comment that will nudge. As, as enthusiastically as possible, your child toward better practices with the writing. Wow. So that is the, that is the key because worst all it matters in some, to some children it matters that this is somebody who cares. [00:23:24] That's not. Their parents. This is someone else in the world. Exactly like that can make a massive, just a, a switch of, you know, if you have kids in a traditional school system, even like sometimes it's the teacher and the parent kind of doesn't count anymore, but there's someone else out there who's saying, this is good. [00:23:42] This is good. And you are? Yeah. Yeah. I feel quite good about that. Then I feel quite good that I think it's good. Oh, but they've said I can improve it if I just check that spell for that bit or, or I learn, remember to start using a few more paragraphs. I can do that. Cause I know what a paragraph is. Cause I just watched a video of it on that previous thing that Zuki sent me. [00:23:59] Yeah. And then I'm [00:24:00] gonna, and, and those kind of skill based. You know, real sort of core curriculum points that every young writer has to learn. I mean, it's, it, it comes back to like reading ultimately, like you just need your kids to read, right? Mm-hmm. , I mean, fundamentally. Yep. Kids will learn to read if they're reading, the more they read, the better at reading they're gonna get. [00:24:20] Right. Exactly. Your kid picks up a soccer magazine like, and they're reading great.  [00:24:25] Maren: Right. The more they enjoy reading, the more they're going to read, the more they're gonna choose to read.  [00:24:30] Josh: Exactly, and it's exactly the same with writing. Exactly. The more they're gonna enjoy writing, the more they're gonna get over any inner turmoil they have about writing, and then they're gonna, all those other things you're worried about, all those other things curriculums, tell you to worry about. [00:24:45] They will. They will come. Yes, they will come. Because you're in the same way that when you read and you read and you read, you pick up the the words and the skills that you need to Yeah. To, to go to new places.  [00:24:56] Maren: I love that you mentioned that there's this personal [00:25:00] tutor or a feed, a personal feedback that our, that every child gets when they, when they use night zookeeper, because I do, you're right. [00:25:07] Like it's so good to have somebody else besides your parent or your teacher work with you sometimes, especially in writing, I think because it is so personal and it almost feels a little vulnerable, even if. Even if it is about an animal that doesn't really exist, it's something that's been in your mind. [00:25:24] And you know, and to have your parent maybe give a little criticism of that can really be tough for a child. And so even just a little encouragement from someone else, you know, that's a little bit removed, but also very encouraging. Mm-hmm. is very encouraging. Yes. It seems, it seems like the best. [00:25:43] Situation, .  [00:25:45] Josh: One other, There's one other even better scenario that happens on my zookeeper. Ooh. And we encourage the kids to comment on other kids writer. Oh, that's awesome. So they, and we've trained them up, you know, through the system to leave positive book constructive [00:26:00] comments on other kids writing. [00:26:00] And it all goes through the tutors. So everything gets, you know, moderated and checked. And then, then if it's a nice constructive comment, it will appear on your kid writing from another student. Wow. And that, I'm, I'm yet to meet a kid who hasn't loved that actually. Like, there, there, there. You know, there's, and kids the best at being sensitive, like adults. [00:26:21] Like we, we try and be sensitive to our, to kids, right? But kids just kind and get other kids. They kind of know that they're all kind of in it together and Yeah. Yeah. They say it, they phrase it so nicely, like, Oh I laughed this piece. It was amazing. I, I'm gonna dream about this story you wrote tonight. [00:26:37] Of course. Just so you know I think you've missed a full stop at the end of that sentence. Yes, yes. Keep writing. I can't wait to read your next story. I'm your biggest fan and say, Wow, okay. I, I could write that. Like, the kid that receives, that's gonna be like, I'm adding that full stop and I'm writing something to mine and  [00:26:53] Maren: I'm gonna keep my mind, Yeah. [00:26:54] I'm gonna keep writing because that is so powerful. That is so [00:27:00] powerful. And you don't get that normally. You just don't get that experience. At such a young age. I mean, a lot of people don't get that unless you're in a creative writing program. Like you probably went through and had, you know, some kind of a group, a writing group or whatever. [00:27:14] But this is amazing and kids deserve to hear and feel that about their own ideas and writing.  [00:27:21] Josh: Absolutely. And you know, that's where you get those transformations. That's where you get a kid. You know, where we hear from parents who would scream and cry and hate, hate the idea of writing and they start using nights of Cuba cuz they've been told it's a game And Right. [00:27:35] Do see around it and before you know it, they're not They're not even worried about the, the game aspects. So n Uber has a sort of a gamified curriculum and some of them, we call them challenges and they're the closest to kind of like your, your kind of classic interactive challenge where you're like dragging and dropping work. [00:27:54] Or you are learning new pieces of vocabulary. All, all that stuff is, is there and, and it [00:28:00] follows you know, the classic, like in the, in the UK that's the called the National Curriculum And America, you know, you have your Common Core and there's the International Baccalaureate, you know, the, the interactive challenges and games on nights. [00:28:11] So you keep the, the sort of, as I say, you kind of expect from digital products. Now they're all. And kids when they first join, they kinda wanna play those. They want to be in the bit, which kind looks more gamey. Sure. But the kids. All kind of reach this point where they realize the real fun of Nisu Keep is taking all the stuff that they've been learning in those games and producing the writing, and then getting those comments and feeling like they've got a no idea, a new idea for a story that they really want to tell. [00:28:43] And they want people to be able to read that story. So they're gonna write it on my to keep, Yes. They're gonna write that idea that they've had for a story, and that's where you get the That's where when I said that thing about like the authors of tomorrow, like that is. What's happening that literally tells what's happening. [00:28:58] Maren: And it sounds like they're authors of [00:29:00] today too, because they're getting Well, absolutely. Basically, essentially published if they want to. Right? Well,  [00:29:05] Josh: they're, they're, they're published. Well, and it's another little segue actually. Nice one that so I still write the night, so keeper books and I write them with the community. [00:29:13] So I come up with. Sort of general themes of the stories and I have a plot and I kind of know where I want the stories to go. Yeah. But then I come up with a whole bunch of questions and I put them onto the website. So kids come up with characters, they come up with jokes. Mm-hmm. , plot points, locations, and they write these. [00:29:28] Again, it's a reason to write, They write this stuff onto the website. Yes. And, and the best ideas, you know, we credit the credit the kids in the books. I've even done book signings where I've been set next to kids who have contributed towards the, the story. So Awesome. Yeah, they can, Not only can they get themselves published, but they can be published. [00:29:45] Published if they can . Yeah.  [00:29:46] Maren: Yes. Exactly. Exactly. That's so awesome. I was just gonna ask too, so you mentioned you, so you have these books and this, that was really the inspiration for the, this whole program. Is it important for. The [00:30:00] families to get the books as well and make sure they read those before they start the program. [00:30:04] I mean,  [00:30:04] Josh: I, I'm, I'm obviously very biased to the, to the books, but No, no, you absolutely don't. The, the story is baked into the website. You know, you're gonna meet the characters, you're gonna go on an adventure. Yeah, Yeah. But it's all very self-contained. But if you've got a kid that struggles with reading and writing mm-hmm. [00:30:21] and of course I'm a, I'm, I'm a big book person as my overcrowded shelves at home will attest. You know, I think there's something very magical about a kid holding a book. Absolutely. And I that it's, it is a great way to compliment the learning. So yeah. Members of people who sign up tonight, Cuba get a pretty decent discount as well on, on getting. [00:30:40] Maren: And that's awesome. It is. You're right. There is something cool about having a physical book these days. You know, especially on a, with a digital, there's, everything's digital including this program. So it's kind of cool to make it tangible for them. There are some kids, especially younger kids, who really, that makes it feel  [00:30:54] Josh: real. [00:30:55] I, I agree. And I, I think that it's, it's yours, you know, when there's a [00:31:00] physical book Yeah. Take that extra care. There's something, you know, and this is something that I think that the world will, will find its balance between mm-hmm. , what digital enables and what the physical is so natural to us as physical beings. [00:31:15] And I feel like Zuki is a great example of where I think we're adding value. To traditional offline play where, you know, the kid can sit and paint a picture of an animal and then take onto the website if they want. They can write on Absolutely. If we produce monthly resources where, you know, you can print out, print them out, and write offline and practice your handwriting. [00:31:35] And all of these aspects are very important in developing writing. And again, that's all, all part of the experience because I think that digital is incredible. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . But sometimes it puts us in slightly. Alien positions, right. Human beings. I mean, I still think it's, it's hilarious that the, the kids playroom for the last 20 years has been their dad's study or [00:32:00] Wednesday , you know, that kind of like, go and sit in a dark room in front of a screen like that. [00:32:04] They should be out. Right. And we'll get, we'll get there again, like, I'm pretty confident that these kind of hybridized tools that, and, you know, augmented reality and all this kind of stuff is going to mm-hmm. , reenable us to play away from. You know, screen pure, screen based situations and Yeah. But in the meantime, I think it's about balance and it's about having mm-hmm. [00:32:25] if you can sit and read a physical book, brilliant. If you can print out these resources and use phy, you know, physical resources to practice handwriting and do drawings and things on and, and aspects of the program offline, then great. But then, It. Yeah. We're in a situation where it's silly not to use all the benefits of technology as well. [00:32:42] Maren: Absolutely. And I think the best, the best programs, the best online programs, I think inspire you to do things offline too. And I think that's what your program definitely does. Like, you could, you, you would easily be inspired to go paint a picture or go just do some creative playing. Right. Role playing. [00:32:58] I mean, you know, all that [00:33:00] kinda stuff can, can be inspired from your program, so that is really  [00:33:03] Josh: awesome. Actually. I think that was one of the reasons why I ended up. Starting the business and taking it as far as I did. We were saying but I think before we started recording, but like how started with a, my co-founder was a primary school teacher working in schools, and he invited me into his school to run the first night Zuki project. [00:33:21] And at lunchtime, having me, you know, lied to the children and saying, I'm a night zookeeper and I look after magic animals. We went out into the playground at lunchtime and all the kids were running around pretending to be night zookeepers and all match animals and playing. And it was, it was such a moving and compelling experience for me that I was sort of convinced at that point that more kids in the world needed to, to have this. [00:33:46] Maren: Absolutely. I, yeah, I'm so excited for everyone who gets this program and can you just let us know how we can find you and how we can sign.  [00:33:55] Josh: So it's night zookeeper.com as in nighttime and [00:34:00] zookeeper. And you know, from there there's a, there's a parent page. That's your effect effectively, that's the homeschool page where you, you go through and Yeah, yeah. [00:34:08] Sign up to the service. There's a free seven day trial to give it a go and see what your kids think. Yeah.  [00:34:12] Maren: So we have a very special link that you need to use and it'll be in our show notes that you can you can use and it'll give you a huge 50% off an annual subscription, which is awesome. And you still get the seven day trial too. [00:34:25] So Wonderful. It seems like a win, win, win, win for, for everyone. So, Absolutely. Thank you so much, Josh. We really appreciate that you joined us.  [00:34:34] Josh: Well, thank you so much for having me. It was really nice to speak to you and yeah, hopefully speak again soon. Definitely. [00:34:40] Maren: Let's move on to our loving this week. L t Ws. Yes. All right. Angela, do you wanna get  [00:34:49] Angela: started? I would love to. All right, Go for it. I have a book to share. Yeah. Yeah. It's a memoir, which Nice. My favorite genre. Yes. This is called All You Can [00:35:00] Ever Know by Rebecca Chung. Ooh. Rebecca is an adoptee and she is Korean, and she was adopted by a white family. [00:35:09] Mm. And so she tells the story of her childhood in that context, and she grew up in a small town and so she kind of always wonder. About herself and her identity, and she was very curious about her birth family. And so she tells about her curiosity. About that and just how that affected her growing up. [00:35:32] And then as she became ad an adult, she decided to try and find her birth family. And so she tells that story. It is so well written. She's a writer. So it's super well written, super inspiring. I think if you If adoption has affected your family. Mm-hmm. , especially transracial adoption. I think you would probably love to read this book. [00:35:52] But I think even for anybody like Yeah, it does, it has not affected my family, but I really, really learned a lot [00:36:00] and, well, I enjoyed reading this book. It was captivating. I listened on audio. Wow. And I listened in two days. I mean, I blew through it. What? I was just, I wanted to find out what would happen. [00:36:10] Yeah. Like, is she gonna find her birth family? What's gonna happen? Cuz I kind of figured that was coming and so it like, kept me interested the whole way through. So I think I think you should definitely read it if this is like, if this peaks your interest at all, I  [00:36:23] Maren: think you would love it. The fact that you read it in two days or listen to in two days makes me think it was definitely well written, obviously. [00:36:31] Oh yeah. Yeah. And then also the story was just deriving and then the fact, fact that it's just real. This has really happened and it really happened. Yep. Yeah. That's like a magical trio there, so for sure. That's awesome. Yes. Thank you.  [00:36:43] Angela: What are, yeah, what are you loving, Marin?  [00:36:46] Maren: Okay. I'm loving some, I'm loving something that is not brand new to probably anybody, but it's an i glass store online store. [00:36:54] It's a, and it's called Warby Parker. I'm sure you have, have heard of it. And [00:37:00] maybe you all have glasses from Warby Parker already. I don't know, but I kind of I never thought I really wanted to try war Beer Parker. Number one. We've done online glasses before and I'm like, well, if we're gonna do online glasses, we're gonna go, They're really cheap route, which, you know, there's like zny or whatever. [00:37:16] So we've done that before. And or we're just gonna get glasses in our real life eyeglass store so we can actually try things on and get the actual fit that we really need. And, you know, I'm sure they're much higher quality. That's what I always thought. Enter whereby Parker , you know, like it's, it has been a journey finding glasses for my whole family over the years. [00:37:39] Mm-hmm. and we've tried so many things, but whereby Parker just kind of happened upon us. Because they actually have a physical store in our nearby mall Now They do. Yeah. Which was awesome. So we just walked past it one day and we're like, Well, let's try these on. And they're all the frames. I [00:38:00] mean, not kidding you, in the whole store I fell in love with, I couldn't decide which ones I wanted, number one, number. [00:38:07] They're so cheap. I mean, I don't wanna say cheap, like Inex. I didn't, What I'm saying is cheap, Inexpensive. Yeah. They're actually very high quality and they're awesome. And I just couldn't believe it. They're even for us out of network for our insurance. Uh, But because we can get reimbursed some of the way we, you know, I just, we paid and then sent in receipts and got paid back right away from our insurance, which was, which was awesome. [00:38:31] It ended up being cheaper than getting full coverage at another eyeglass store. Any other, like we, I think I looked at three or four other eyeglass stores in the, in the area. And even with like full insurance coverage whereby Parker was so much cheaper. So much cheaper. Wow, that's amazing. And their customer service is unbeatable. [00:38:54] They're so amazing at customer service. Everybody in the store was like, [00:39:00] became our friends right away. . They just loved us and we loved them and I don't know, we just all connected. We all have this vibe. They just have this vibe and it's just great. And they gave us great feedback on what. What we should look for in glasses for our, you know, for our face shape and things like that. [00:39:16] And so it was just fun. It was actually just like a fun experience, which I have not had before with my  [00:39:21] Angela: family and fighting eyeglasses. That's awesome. That is so awesome. Yes. Yeah. So would you, would you only recommend it going into the store or now that you've done it? That's a good question. Do it online. [00:39:34] Maren: Well, and I know that when you do it online, they do send you like, Pairs of glasses that you can actually try on. Yeah. And then, so, which is great. I think that's also a viable option for sure. Yeah, for sure. You can totally do that. And I would say the other thing is that they make the glasses and send them to you so quickly too. [00:39:53] So if you need glasses quickly, they're, they never, I, I think they don't like maybe Guarantee that they'll come really fast, [00:40:00] but ours came really fast. And then also they have like lots of different lenses that often are super expensive when you upgrade lenses. Especially with like the blue blocking material that protects your eyes from the screens and stuff like that. [00:40:13] Like that can be hundreds of dollars other places and it's. Just so affordable, so affordable at where we park. I just can't believe it. Like,  [00:40:21] Angela: I, I can't believe that either. I, Yeah, I feel like I hit the jackpot. I'm just so, so excited. Well, I'm really glad to have a real world what's the word? [00:40:29] Maren: Endorsement. I don't Endorsement.  [00:40:31] Angela: Yes. A real world endorsement because I have of course heard of them on, on pockets, but those are like ads. So you just, you  [00:40:38] Maren: know. This is an A by the way, this is not an ad.  [00:40:41] Angela: I'm just telling you. It's true. I always, I always I've stayed away from Warby Parker because I thought it would be more expensive, so I'm glad to hear it. [00:40:48] It's actually not, it's  [00:40:49] Maren: actually really not. Really not. And Okay. Yeah. Yep. So I'm super excited to even get more now, . That's great.  [00:40:56] Angela: Yeah. That's great. Thanks for sharing. Yeah. All [00:41:00] right, so thank you everybody for listening, and we wanna say a special thank you to our three sponsors, Blossom and Root Out School and Knight Zoo Zookeeper. [00:41:08] Be sure to check out all their links and coupon codes and stuff in our show. Show notes.  [00:41:13] Maren: This podcast is created and hosted by Angela Sizer and Maren Goerss. We are listener supported. To get extra content and the Back to School summit free with your membership, go to patreon.com/homeschool unrefined. [00:41:27] Subscribe to our newsletter and get our free top 100 inclusive book list. Add homeschool unrefined.com/newsletter. You can find Maren on Instagram at Unrefined Maren and at Always Learning With Maren. Find Angela at unrefined Angela.  [00:41:47] [00:42:00] 

Join us today as we have a conversation with Camille Kirksey, the Intuitive Homeschooler, about what her homeschool life looks like. Fall 2022 Season Sponsors   We are so grateful to our Fall 2022 Season Sponsors. Use the links below for their special offerings:   Blossom & Root and use code HSUnrefined15 for 15% off your purchase   Outschool and use code Unrefined for $20 off your first class    Night Zookeeper for a 7-day, risk-free trial, as well as 50% off an annual subscription  LTWs    Maren: Magnetic Card Wallet Holder   Angela: Dry Erase White Board Sheets   Connect with us!  Visit our website  Sign up for our newsletter and get our Top 100 Inclusive Book List We are listener supported! Support us on Patreon Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and see video episodes now on Youtube Angela on Instagram: @unrefinedangela | Maren on Instagram: @unrefinedmaren and @alwayslearningwithmaren  Email us any questions or feedback at homeschoolunrefined@gmail.com   Complete Episode Transcript [00:00:00] Angela:  [00:00:09] Hi, we're Maren and Angela of homeschool unrefined. Over the past 25 years, we've been friends. Teachers, homeschool parents and podcasters. Together with our master's degrees and 20 years combined homeschooling, we're here to rethink homeschooling, learning, and education with an inclusive and authentic lens. [00:00:30] Maren: At Homeschool Unrefined, we prioritize things like giving yourself credit, building strong connections, respectful parenting, interest led playing and learning, learning differences, mental health, self care, listening to and elevating LGBTQ plus and BIPOC Voices. [00:00:51] Angela: We are here to encourage and support you. Whether you're a new homeschooler, a veteran, you love curriculum, you're an unschooler. Whether [00:01:00] all your kids are at home or all your kids are in school, or somewhere in between. Wherever you are in your journey, we are the voices in your heads telling you, You're doing great, and so are your kids. [00:01:10] Maren: This episode is 1 94, How We Homeschool with Camille Kirksey. We are going to first share our conversation with Camille, the intuitive homeschooler, and then we'll end like we always do with our lt. Ws loving this week.  [00:01:27] Angela: All right. We wanted to let you guys know before we get started about our newsletter. [00:01:30] We would love to have you sign up for it if you don't already get it. It comes out every week on Fridays. It's packed with everything for the week and a little bit of inspiration for you. If you sign up for it, you get a free gift, which which is our book list. This is our top 100 inclusive book list. [00:01:49] We're so proud of this and so excited for it. So if you don't have it yet, you're gonna wanna. Yes, and  [00:01:54] Maren: it's a PDF with links. Yeah, just click something. It's so great. We are starting something new [00:02:00] this season where we are bringing you three new sponsors for the entire fall season. We were very intentional about who we chose for sponsors. [00:02:10] We pre appreciate you taking the time to learn about them because we think they're really good companies. Also, they're giving discount codes, so you will definitely want to listen for. We're so happy to work hard on this podcast and we appreciate the financial support in making it happen. [00:02:29] You've heard us rave about out school in the past because they're one of our favorite ways to outsource your homeschool. We know that kids who love to learn don't just prepare for the future. They create it. That's why Out School has reimagined online learning to empower kids and teens to expand their creativity, wonder and knowledge. [00:02:49] Empathetic, passionate teachers encourage learners ages three to 18 to explore their interests, connect with diverse peers from around the world, and take an active role in leading [00:03:00] their. Out school has created a world filled with endless possibilities for every schooling journey. Explore over 140,000 fun and flexible live online classes to find the right fit for your family and join us as we set learning free. [00:03:18] Sign up today at Out schooler.me/homeschool unrefined. And get up to $20 off your first class when you enroll with Code  [00:03:27] Angela: UNREFINED. We absolutely love teaching, reading, and writing in ways that are creative and fun, and that's why we are excited to introduce you to Knight Zookeeper. Is your child a reluctant writer? [00:03:41] Do they struggle with reading? If your answer to either of these questions is yes, the Night Zookeeper may just be what you're looking for. Night Zookeeper is an online learning program for children, ages six to 12 years old that uses a gamified and creative approach to help keep kids engaged and focused [00:04:00] on developing awesome reading and writing skills, all while having fun at the same. [00:04:05] Some of the features we love include the educational games, the personalized feedback on writing from real tutors and the super safe community pages where children can work with each other and learn together. If Night Zookeeper sounds like the perfect learning program for your child, you can try it for free by clicking on the link in our show notes. [00:04:24] When you register it, you'll get a seven day risk free trial, as well as a huge 50% off an annual subscription. That's a great deal if you ask. We  [00:04:38] Maren: know how hard it is to find curricula that's a good fit for you and your kids. Blossom and Root is a nature focused secular homeschool curriculum focusing on creativity, science, nature, literature, and the arts. [00:04:52] Blossom and Root has been gently encouraging and supporting homeschooling families around the globe since 2016. [00:05:00] Blossom and Root currently offers curricula for pre-K through fifth grade with new levels being added in the future. Additionally, a three volume inclusive US history curriculum told from a variety of viewpoints is currently in development as of August, 2022. [00:05:18] Volume one is available for purchase, and volume two is available on pre-sale. All profits from this history curriculum, a River of Voices will be used to support story. And artists from historically excluded communities. You can find samples, scope, and sequences and information about each of their levels online@blossomandroot.com. [00:05:42] You can also find them at Instagram at Blossom and Root. Blossom and Root has created a special discount for our listeners. Use the code Hs. Unrefined 15 at checkout for 15% off your.  [00:05:56] Angela: All right. Hi Mar. Hello. [00:06:00] So happy to be here. So happy. Yeah. Today we have Camille Kirksey with us, and if you are, don't already know her, you might know her from her Instagram reels. [00:06:09] Mm-hmm. That's where we found her first. Mm-hmm. . Camille Kirksey strives wholeheartedly to be honest and transparent about the transformative experience homeschooling offers, shifting the narrative of what home education can be. Since beginning to homeschool in 2013, she has helped thousands of homeschool parents by simplifying the how to homeschool learning process, making it easier, quicker, and less intimidating for newcomers through veterans A. [00:06:36] Camille is an author and homeschool mindset coach that recently launched her first masterclass for new homeschool parents Empowered Beginnings under her upcoming online coaching program for Parents Homeschool U Academy. Which launches in 2023. And here's our conversation with Camille. [00:06:57] Welcome Camille. Thanks for being [00:07:00] here.  [00:07:00] Camille: Hi Angela. It's so nice to be here. Finally meeting. I know. Finally in person. kinda  [00:07:05] Angela: in person. Person. Yeah. Yeah. This is fun. Yeah. So yeah, I first discovered you doing reels and if you're not following the intuitive homeschooler and doing on reels on Instagram, you're missing out. [00:07:19] So . So thank you for bringing that joy into my life. First, tell us a little bit about yourself, your job, your family, things  [00:07:28] Camille: like. So I'm Camille. I have three kids, teen all the way to seven. Okay. We've been homeschooling since 2013, so this is year nine for us. Okay. As you said, I do reels. That is my happy place. [00:07:44] I take all the crazy things that go on in my head and and give it to the people, and people seem to like it. Yeah. And that's just about being relatable. One of the things I really like to do is highlight things that I think we're all thinking and do it in a funny [00:08:00] way. So that's something I really enjoy. [00:08:01] What else? So I'm a homeschool mom. I run a business, a digital media Okay. Business. Where we create content. I release a book in 2020 for new homeschoolers called Coming Home, and that has turned into a new master. And next year, 2023, a digital academy for our homeschool parents where we can go and learn some things. [00:08:24] The kids get to have a lot of fun online, but we, we need to do that too, so.  [00:08:28] Angela: Okay. That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. I have to ask you about your reals because you have a talent for finding audio .  [00:08:38] Camille: Oh. Like, you  [00:08:40] Angela: find a piece of audio that you think wouldn't relate. And then you make it relatable. And I'm wondering like, has this just come to you? [00:08:48] Like, are you just like, Oh, I don't, I know what to do with that ? Yeah.  [00:08:52] Camille: You know, they find me. Okay. It's just, especially on Instagram, I know it's different on TikTok, Instagram, you can't really find a audio [00:09:00] anyway, so you kind, you gotta come across it, but it just happens in my head. If it's funny and I can make it work, then I do. [00:09:08] Angela: That's awesome. That's awesome. And you know what, You're also like not afraid to say the thing that other people might be afraid to say. So I appreciate that.  [00:09:15] Camille: Oh, of course. It's, that's been a gift and a curse my entire life, even as a kid. So, and my mother can attest to that. She's told me many stories of her, like looking like, Is my child about to get in trouble with some other people? [00:09:29] Let me make sure she's okay. Yeah. Cause she speaks her  [00:09:32] Angela: mind. So yeah, it's definitely a gift. It's a gift. Okay, I accept that. Yeah. Yeah. So how did you get started homeschooling and like, what made you decide to do that?  [00:09:43] Camille: So, It was a real kind of random thing. I found myself on Facebook at like two in the morning as, as one does back in the day. [00:09:54] And I saw a black woman from, I think she was from Seattle. [00:10:00] She was from No, Colorado. Denver. Okay. And she had like seven kids and they were homeschooling. And that was the first introduction I ever had. I didn't, I had never heard of it until then. Mm-hmm. , this was 2013. Wow. Okay. And my oldest was four and he was in school like a pre-K, and it was fine. [00:10:19] We didn't have any problems. I didn't, you know, homeschool as a reaction to him being at school. But when I saw her and I saw how she presented herself and I saw this freedom and just, I just was like, I like that, I want that. So I kind of started looking into it, you know, back in 2013, you really can't find like, A breath of information about homeschooling. [00:10:39] It was very basic. Yeah. Lot of YouTube wasn't happening yet. Yeah, definitely not podcast. No. And so yeah, that was kind of my first aha moment. And then a couple things happened at the school and I was like, you know, let's just try it and that, and it kind of just stuck.  [00:10:53] Angela: So you're one of those people who just decided to try it and then it worked and you were. [00:10:59] That's awesome. [00:11:00] Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. And you've just stuck with it for nine years now? Yeah. This  [00:11:04] Camille: is nine September. Yeah. It just, it, it really. Had I known about it growing up, I probably would've had it on my radar. Mm-hmm. . But we just were I guess a typical family. Everybody went to school. My parents went to work. [00:11:18] Yeah. So I didn't even know there was an alternative way of learning. Yeah. Right. Yeah.  [00:11:23] Angela: Right. And so what is your, do you have like a homeschool philosophy or what kind of homeschooler are you?  [00:11:29] Camille: I don't, I mean, I'm kind of just a go with the flow, kind of, I guess. Intuitive . Yeah. Because I just really trust myself and my kids to let. [00:11:39] To, so all of us can just kind of flow together. Mm-hmm. That's kind of how my life has been. I thought I was gonna be a lawyer from when I was little and then I had a law class in high school. I was like, Nah, that ain't, that ain't it. So I just learned like, life is gonna bring me what I need to know. [00:11:55] Yeah. I just gotta trust the process. So yeah. I'm just, that's so interest. [00:12:00] Technically, I guess I would be eclectic cause Yeah, it's just kind of rolling. But yeah, it's just flow. That's just. where I find myself always going to, and when I, when I trust it, it works.  [00:12:11] Angela: Okay. Okay. Yeah. So do you do like curriculum? [00:12:15] Some curriculum? Yes. Curriculum.  [00:12:17] Camille: I, I call it educational resources. Okay. Because curriculum feels too constraining to me. It feels like, you know, it's only one way to look at things and I look at life as the curriculum. Life is the journey. So yeah, I just pull in whatever works. It it. Okay. It doesn't have to look a certain way. [00:12:36] Angela: Okay, great. And do you guys do things like co-ops or,  [00:12:41] Camille: Oh, yeah. Yeah. We actually started in a co-op. We found it, we were one of the founding families in a co-op local to us. Look at you. Okay. When we started, and I was still working at the time, so that was very interesting cause I had Oh wow. Okay. So I had a five year old and a two year old. [00:12:56] No. He was one. Okay. And I was working from [00:13:00] home so I could like work anywhere. So we were at the co-op and it was beautiful. We, we loved it. That really worked for a few years. Okay. But since then we've done homeschool groups. Like my kids are at a homeschool group now, like a drop off homeschool group. [00:13:14] Okay. Yeah. Yeah, we do, we do like homeschool nature class. We, we get out and, and do a lot of homeschool type stuff. Yeah.  [00:13:21] Angela: Yeah. Okay. That's great. So what would you say makes your homeschool unique? And I asked this because in the last episode we did, we talked about making your homeschool unique and how you know, Every child is unique. [00:13:34] Every parent's unique. And so you gotta do what works for you. So what do you think makes you all unique in the way that you homeschool?  [00:13:41] Camille: Well, I think I, I really trust my, myself and I trust my kids and I really try to give them a say in a lot of things, even though we're not unschoolers. Mm-hmm. I really. [00:13:54] I really try to involve them as much as possible. It's kind of difficult cause my kids are kind of really [00:14:00] go with the flow kids. Like they don't have a specific thing, like, I wanna study this. They're kinda like going with whatever I do. But I think you over Yeah. Yeah. They're able to, you know, kind of narrow it down a little bit more. [00:14:13] Yeah. But yeah, I think, I think what I see out there in the homeschool community is a lot of us don't always trust ourselves and our kids. Yeah. And I think that's one of the things. Probably appeals to people about me because I thousand percent trust us to figure this thing out together.  [00:14:29] Angela: That is such, that is so important and such an advantage that you have because you're right. [00:14:33] Like a lot of people and in myself included at the beginning, were like unsure or not self-confident in what you were doing or you know, because you're already like doing something different. You know, you're already like, You know, people probably think you're weird or like, what's, what's that family doing? [00:14:52] Or whatever. So that can be hard to be really confident in yourself and trust you and your kids and that you, you know what you're doing. Yeah. And so [00:15:00] I really think that's an advantage. Is that something that's like kind of just the way you are, it's kind of like in you born in you? Or is that like, come with practice? [00:15:09] Camille: Oh, it's absolutely practice. As far as homeschooling goes me personally, I, I am just a very, I do what I and my mother can say. I, I do what I want. I've been like that for a long time. If it's something that I want to do, I'm gonna do. But when it came to homeschooling, I absolutely didn't start out confident. [00:15:25] I started out very excited and curious, but clueless. Mm-hmm. , completely clueless. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And so I, over, over the years, I've just, I have, you know, one thing about me, I'm not afraid to try things. I don't because I, I never think I fail at anything. I just learn, Okay, well that didn't work or part of it worked, or mm-hmm. [00:15:47] So yeah, it, it took me five years. I always tell people it takes between three and five years to really, really get it, like really live it and understand. Interesting. Mm-hmm. that three are Mark for sure, but for me it was. Because I burned out [00:16:00] and I wanted quit. We were looking for school. Oh, did you? [00:16:02] Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But after that I was like, You know what, we're just gonna sell it in. And I didn't give myself an out. Mm-hmm. , you know, I said, We're gonna go, we're gonna go with this thing. We're not gonna go year by year. We're gonna go with this thing. And yeah. So after a while it just kind of stuck. [00:16:20] Yeah. Cause I'm like, well, I can't, I can't not do it. So  [00:16:24] Angela: we're gonna do. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So what did you learn in that time? Like what kinds of things were you maybe thinking or doing at the beginning that you you know, decide, you realized like, this isn't working. I need to fix it and do it a different way? [00:16:40] What changed  [00:16:40] Camille: for. Well, I jumped in like a lot of us do with, you know, buying curricula upfront. Yeah. Not, not understanding like my rhythm, not even knowing about rhythm, you know. Mm-hmm. , I did what schools do, what I went through, you know, most of us go through mm-hmm. And. A lot of that can [00:17:00] be helpful at first for transitioning mm-hmm. [00:17:02] Because it gives you some sense of normalcy, like you are familiar with that. Yeah. But over time, you know, and I know we talk about your, like finding your kids Like their learning styles. And you know, after a long time into that, I was like, That's, that's just not real. That's just, it's just not a thing. [00:17:22] Okay. It's something that feels good, but in real life we don't only have one learning style. We learn things multiplicity of ways. So, yeah. You know, I just jumped into the traditional way of homeschooling and I, I just found that. It didn't feel good. Maybe it checked off the boxes. Mm-hmm. , but it didn't feel right. [00:17:42] And yeah, I tried everything. I tried Waldorf, I tried unschooled, I tried, I went down. I did it all cuz I didn't know what else to do, you know? Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so it's probably nothing I haven't done at this point. That just gave me the confidence. Okay, well those didn't work. It has to be something else. [00:17:58] Mm-hmm. . And once I started [00:18:00] listening to myself and learning my kids Cause it's also hard when your kids are little because they, Yeah. You know, they don't really, they can't really direct you in a way. Some kids can, but my kids were very open, so it's kind of left up to me. And that's hard too, cuz I don't know. [00:18:15] Yeah,  [00:18:16] Angela: that is such a good point that. Hadn't thought of until now that when you're, you, some people start when their kids are younger. A lot of people do. Yeah. And then so you think you figured it out or you think you, you've got this or whatever, and then your kids get older and you're like, Oh Now my child is showing me who they are and what they need. [00:18:34] And things need to change a little bit.  [00:18:36] Camille: Absolutely. It's, yeah, it's really difficult to know. I mean, and I think that's why a lot of kids end up going to school when they get older because things change. They need different things. Yeah. And. You know, you just have to try to meet them where they are. But it's hard to do when they're little because they're, you're the leader at that point. [00:18:55] Yeah. You know? Yeah. And it's hard to, you know, let them lead unless they're very [00:19:00] strong. Some kids are very, very particular and they know what they want. Yeah. But a lot of them don't. So you kind of left, I dunno.  [00:19:07] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. So what are some of your favorite resources? Do you have like one or two that you love to use? [00:19:15] Camille: Ooh.  [00:19:16] Angela: Doesn't have to be specific. You can be like YouTube  [00:19:18] Camille: or, you know, I'm a workbook person. Like, personally, I really do like workbooks. And I, I've done all types of workbooks, but I, I feel like. My kids like to know what they have to do. Like Yeah. And it's easy to say this is it, you know? Yep. But yeah, probably more workbooks. [00:19:37] They don't really, they don't really gravitate towards anything else. I'm kinda like a workbook. Make sure you read, you know, for however many minutes mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. a person. So kind of just like a mix between like, let's see what's at the library with that and workbooks, but it's not one particular. You know, I don't have a particular resource that I like a go-to. [00:19:59] It's [00:20:00] just like, this works right now, kind of  [00:20:02] Angela: thing. That's just it. That's how it has been for me too, a little bit. It's just like you find a thing, it works for a few months and then you gotta find another thing. . Mm-hmm. . There's very few things that work the whole way through. Because people change, kids change and needs change and you get bored or mm-hmm. [00:20:19] you know, you need a variety or whatever. So that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah. So what does a typical day or week look like for you?  [00:20:28] Camille: You know, honestly it's pretty boring because it's so monotonous. . I think my kids are bored a lot because we do the same thing. They just know, you know? Okay. But it's the standard, you know, we start school probably around 10, 11 ish, cuz my kids will be older. [00:20:44] They wanna sleep in.  [00:20:45] Angela: Yeah. And so you let 'em sleep in? Oh, absolutely. My  [00:20:48] Camille: oldest. Sometimes he's not up till like two in afternoon. I'm like, Oh, I forgot you were here because I haven't even seen you today, . That's many a days. Okay. But yeah, so we'll get up, get dressed, [00:21:00] you know, typical stuff, and then we'll do school. [00:21:03] School takes about a couple hours. Okay. Right now we're doing th three days a week cuz they have homeschool group and we have other stuff going on. Mm. Yeah. Okay. And yeah. And then in the afternoons, I'm normally doing my work stuff or just vegging out watching something reels. I watch a ton of reels, [00:21:20] I guess that's my research. . Well, yeah, for  [00:21:23] Angela: sure. It's for  [00:21:23] Camille: research. Yeah. Yeah. . And so our weeks are pretty, they're, they're pretty, like I said, they're monotonous. They're the same thing. We may meet up with friends, you know? Mm-hmm. , if we can do that. Or a field trip or you know, the, Definitely the library. [00:21:38] Yeah. But we're, we're just really go with the flow. Like whatever, I try to have, you know, pay attention to the schedule, but I, I'm not a slave to the schedule. I'm kind of like, we'll go with the flow kind of thing.  [00:21:50] Angela: That's nice. That's nice. So what do you, what for you is the best part of homeschooling? Like, why have you stuck with. [00:21:58] Camille: You know, I [00:22:00] really, when I used to work outside the home, I always wanted to be with my kids. Like, I just love the idea of being like going to the zoo and, you know, Yeah. Going and just hanging out. So I really do enjoy being with my kids. Mm-hmm. . But I also love that it's a second chance for me to really learn. [00:22:17] So much, so, so much. And to see things through their eyes because, and this is one of the things that I think a lot of homeschoolers have a problem with. We, our kids are different. Than us. Mm-hmm. , a lot of us, most of us grew up in the 19 hundreds. Let's just be clear and as long, as long as we, you know, continue to look at things from like the 20th century, we're gonna miss a lot of opportunities for our kids. [00:22:46] They are growing up in a different time. They have access to so much we didn't. Mm-hmm. , they have autonomy the way we didn't, you know, we. You know, parenting techniques that really give them this [00:23:00] voice. Mm-hmm. that a lot of us didn't have. So I really appreciate being, being in this modern time where, you know, maybe society wise, children aren't always seen as whole people, but there's this. [00:23:12] Movement of parents. Yeah. Especially with homeschooling. They're like, No, my kids mental wellbeing is important. Mm-hmm. , you know, how they, what they think about and how they express themselves is important. So I love being part of this movement of homeschooling that is very recent. Yeah. More modern. It's really honor. [00:23:31] Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that's, that's probably my  [00:23:34] Angela: favorite part. Yeah. That's awesome. I love that. That resonates with me so much. I agree with you. I think there is a movement to, you know, a lot of people look back with nostalgia, but especially among homeschoolers, that can be the case. But I agree that there's so much. [00:23:51] There's so many positive things about the time that we're living in. Mm-hmm. . I know there's a lot of scary things too, but, you know a lot of it is positive and if we embrace it [00:24:00] and realize, like you said, our kids are growing up in a totally different world. This is amazing for them. It really is. [00:24:05] It's amazing. And you're right, it's a second chance for us. Like yeah. We are now getting to experience a lot of these things that they are too. It's. It's invaluable, so I really appreciate that. Yeah. What is what's one of the hardest parts for you about homeschooling, if anything?  [00:24:25] Camille: Hmm. What's hard about it? [00:24:27] I guess just personally, because I guess I'm like a public figure or whatever. Just seeing people struggle with the things that I don't, I just know they don't have to struggle with, but they don't know it yet. Yeah. And I think that's probably the most difficult, like seeing how the community is changing, but it's, it's not always. [00:24:49] Inclusive and, and is diverse and mm-hmm. and supportive as I want it to be. And so obviously that's what I try to do. Yeah. Is provide that. But I think that's the [00:25:00] hardest seeing people, you know, In, in spaces where they're, they feel defeated or they can't do it. And I'm just like, Come here. Like no [00:25:09] Angela: Yeah. It doesn't have to be that hard. It doesn't have to be that hard. Yeah. Yeah. And it is really hard to know that when you're first starting out, or you're right. If you're in a space or you know, I think a lot of times you're looking around and wanting to do things the way other people do it because you don't know. [00:25:25] Right. And so that can be hard to know. Like there is a different way and it can be easier, it can be more relaxed.  [00:25:31] Camille: Right. Absolutely. Yeah.  [00:25:32] Angela: Yeah. So it sounds like where you live, I don't know, you didn't say where you live, but it sounds like where you live, you have a good comu, a homeschool community that you feel You know, is, is good for your family and that's amazing. [00:25:46] Camille: Yeah. Yeah. We do, We have access to, I mean, it's way more homeschoolers than I thought. Like when we, we first were part of the co-op. We're not with them now, but it was, it was so many families from so many different spaces and that was, I [00:26:00] was very surprised. I just didn't realize how many. Like within five minutes of me. [00:26:04] It was ridiculous. Wow. But yeah, we're kind of like adjacent to the homeschool, homeschool community. I haven't really found like a group of people. I have hand, like a, maybe a couple people. Yeah. . But online is like amazing . Yeah. But yeah, in person, it's kind of like we haven't, we've never been able to find our, our people like a group. [00:26:28] It's here and there, but not consistent. Yeah.  [00:26:30] Angela: Like you kind of have your fingers in different places, but it's, you don't feel like, And I think that's okay too. I just, I want people to know like, there isn't always gonna be a perfect community for your family. Right. There probably isn't. Right. You know, if you have that count yourself. [00:26:46] Lucky because Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. But more like, for me at least, it was cobbling together a lot of just different things and some, some non homeschool things too, like after school or evening [00:27:00] type activities too, was where we met like kids who went to traditional school. [00:27:04] Yeah. Yeah, too.  [00:27:06] Camille: So it was more, I think it's more common than not though. I mean, that's the thing, Yeah. With mm-hmm. , there's so many reasons why it's kind of disjointed that way, but mm-hmm. , I think that's more common than having like this. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. Especially like for me, you know, we're a secular family and we don't have like a set, like a church group or, you know. [00:27:27] Yeah. That's way. But I think that's less common that in the homeschool community to really have that set group that you could just come into and you feel comfortable, you feel belong, like you belong. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Um, Cause I can get along with a lot of folks, but I don't, I have yet to find somewhere I feel like I belong in person. [00:27:47] Mm-hmm. . And that's just, that's really, that's a struggle. But you know, like you said, it just, it is what it is and that's,  [00:27:53] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's definitely a A way the homeschool community could grow, you know? Mm-hmm. is being [00:28:00] more inclusive and we talk about that a lot, but it is hard to be, to feel like you don't fit for whatever reason. [00:28:06] Yeah. And, or feel like you're excluded for whatever reason in a group, or just to see, at least for me, it was hard to see like a lot of other groups getting together and then feeling like you don't really belong with that group. Then you're like, I feel like you miss out. You know? Right. Especi for something with  [00:28:23] Camille: kids, you know, that's, It's okay if. [00:28:27] I'm the one that doesn't feel like a fit. I'm okay with that. But for the kids it is, it is difficult to see that because Yeah, like if you don't have, like, we don't have kids in the neighborhood and we don't, you know, so it is like, it's very intentional that I have to get out there and do it. Yep. Yep. Yeah. [00:28:43] It, it can be challenging for sure.  [00:28:45] Angela: Can be challenging. Yep. So just for fun, because I'm curious, and I always, we talk about this a lot too. What kinds of things are you into right now? Like maybe you're reading, maybe you're watching something, maybe it's music you're listening [00:29:00] to. I'm just curious if you wanna share anything fun that you're into. [00:29:04] Camille: I mean, reals, that's probably like the most fun I have in a day. Yeah. And just, you know, engaging with people online. Yep. I am doing a cohort right now with moms, new homeschool moms, and it's every week and. I love doing that. Like I, I just love getting to know people and helping them be their best sales. [00:29:25] Yeah. So that's kind of how I spend my days for the most part. And all of it's fun to me, like Yeah. All of  [00:29:31] Angela: it. . Yeah. You know, I love how you're normalizing that because I think people can feel, especially your homeschool parents or just parents in general, can feel guilty. Hmm. About the time that they're spending online, or especially like watching reels or  [00:29:46] Camille: whatever. [00:29:47] Oh, no. don't do that. , that's like, I, I just, I've always, I remember being a little kid, like, I'm not gonna be these like, stuffy adults that don't laugh and, you know, are silly. Like, that's my. [00:30:00] State of mind. I, I, I find funny things and just probably the craziest places and mm-hmm. . Yeah. Like, yeah, I don't want, I don't want, don't do that like do. [00:30:09] So, and, and I think a lot of people, a lot of women moms, Yeah. Feel like, you know, self care has to be this. Like bubble bath or spot. Yeah. No, my laughing at these reels are, is laughing. That does that for me. That's laughing.  [00:30:23] Angela: Yes. Are you on TikTok too?  [00:30:26] Camille: Are you having I am not. No. I couldn't do both. Really? [00:30:30] Angela: That's, Yeah. It'd be easy. You just like put it over there too. You just like, No, actually it's not that easy. It's cuz we're, we're doing both too. Okay. And I you. Yeah, it's not as easy to, to do both. Like you can't just copy paste. If you could, that would be, Yeah.  [00:30:46] Camille: Yeah. I, I tried that a little bit cause my, one of my friends was like, You have to get on TikTok. [00:30:50] Even my cousin, you have to get on TikTok. And I was like, No, , okay. I tried it, but it's like, I feel better, I feel more at home on Instagram. [00:31:00] Yeah.  [00:31:00] Angela: Right. Yeah. I get. Yeah. Okay. So I am curious too, something that we always talk about is, are things that we don't do. So like a lot of other people do things that we sometimes think we should do. [00:31:16] Hmm. But you know, like for example, like I don't when my kids were little, I didn't do their laundry. They did their laundry or you know, I don't garden , , you know, I love other people gardening or like, you know, I think that's amazing. If that's your hobby and you like doing that, I'm not gonna do that. [00:31:34] Yeah. So just embracing the things that you don't do mm-hmm. then you're making room for the things that you really enjoy doing. So what are. Something that you  [00:31:42] Camille: don't do? I mean, it's a lot. I don't do . I, I, I've, I've always, I've never been afraid to say no. That was probably my default for a long time. [00:31:50] Yeah. Because I don't. I'm an introvert. Like it doesn't come out like that, but I really, I really am. I really? Yeah, I believe you. Yeah. . So [00:32:00] I say no to most things. Yeah. But like you said, it is because I, I wanna, you know, really. Pay attention to the things that really matter to me in my kids. Mm-hmm. [00:32:11] Mm-hmm. . So, I don't know, like, I can, I think I say no to so much. I, I don't do drama. Like I, you know, even though I post some things that can be controversial sometimes. Oh yeah. That's very intentional. I'm a conversation starter. I want to do that. But most of the time I'm, I'm just kind of to myself, so I guess. [00:32:30] I normally, I can't even think of any particular thing I don't do, cuz there's so much I don't do. Yeah. I'm a minimalist too. Like, I keep things so simple. Yeah. Like I will say for homeschooling, I don't have a bunch of stuff. I don't, I don't find joy in keeping curricula that doesn't work or you know, just because I pay for something, I'm going to try to, I would give stuff away before I sell it. [00:32:52] Yeah. So I guess it's something I absolutely don't do. I don't hoard things just in case even I know you mentioned like earlier where [00:33:00] you know the curriculum is boring and you kind of move on and Yeah. I'm like, I don't put it on the shelf. Most times I kind of give it away because I don't You get  [00:33:08] Angela: rid of it  [00:33:08] Camille: right away. [00:33:09] Yeah, because I'm like, I'm not gonna save it. And some, some stuff. Very little. Very little. Yeah. But yeah, I kind of keep stuff real streamlined and, and moving.  [00:33:20] Angela: That's just, You're not attached  [00:33:22] Camille: to I am not attached, no. Yeah. I'm not attached to a lot of things. I'm not, I'm not even attached to the outcome of this homeschool journey. [00:33:31] Oh, I'm not attached to that. Say more about that. Yeah. I, I don't, I don't, and that's one of the things I went through a period of time where I was just binging so many, like, I guess self-improvement type books and just this really, I, I just, that's where I think my intuition really, really solidified for me, where I was. [00:33:50] I cannot be attached to the outcome of what happens. All I can do is do my best today. Mm-hmm. and whatever happens going forward is outta my [00:34:00] control. Mm-hmm. . So when it comes to homeschooling, I'm like, I'm gonna show up as much as possible and support my kids as much as I can. But what would they do with that that's on them, You know, just as adults, they, I can only. [00:34:14] Give them the best of me and they have to take whatever they can and, and go forward. I mean, that's for me, that's, that's how I don't get attached to like where they should be, what they should be doing today. Here we are. Oh, that's, you,  [00:34:30] Angela: like healthy. That's just so healthy advice and I think most people are not there. [00:34:36] I, and most people put a lot of pressure on themselves to do it right. Because their kids' future depends on it or whatever. But you know, if your kids were in school, it would be the same. It would be like, yeah, I mean, you know, this is what we're doing, but you know, I don't know what the outcomes will be. [00:34:55] It's what you make of it, or it's, it's just what's gonna happen. This [00:35:00] is the best thing we're doing right now. I'm, I'm giving you, I'm given. I'm given a good try. Yep. And . That's it. . That's all I can do. Yeah,  [00:35:11] Camille: that's I can. I know what, I don't create a separation between myself and my kids. Like, Okay, adults do it this way and kids do it this way because I don't know what I'm doing on a daily basis. [00:35:21] This. Mm-hmm. like this podcast, we can only plan so much. Yeah. We're gonna, whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen. Yeah. So adults, as adults, we practice this all the time. This jumping into situations, new jobs, relationships, all types of stuff. Mm-hmm. . So I don't know why that would be any different for the kids. [00:35:37] We don't know what's gonna happen with us. As much as we planned. I went to college, I, I'm not doing any of the stuff that I thought I was gonna be doing, you know, like you have. But that's the fun of it. Like that's where the, we talk about lifelong learning and being curious for our kids, but at some point it kind of doesn't apply to us. [00:35:55] Mm-hmm. . Yeah, it applies to us. So that's kind of what I like to do. I like to [00:36:00] not know what's coming. I'm okay with that cuz I'm. I've been okay in the past. I'll be okay in the future. It's, it's all good. It's hard to,  [00:36:08] Angela: It's such a great, it's such a great attitude. It's such a great attitude. It's like it's ideal for homeschooling too, you know, to, to just Now, put that pressure on yourself. [00:36:18] What what happens will happen. Yeah. We love learning. We're just gonna keep, keep trying, keep experiencing things and yeah, this is life.  [00:36:27] Camille: Yep. Life is the curricula. You just keep moving and that's amazing.  [00:36:31] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being with us today. Of course. I'm so glad that we got to talk finally, and I wanted our audience to hear from you, and so will you tell our listeners where they can find you and what kinds of things you really want them to know about that you're doing? [00:36:51] Camille: Okay. So as for mentioned Instagram, I'm on there, the intuitive homeschooler. Mm-hmm. . My blog website is the intuitive [00:37:00] homeschooler.com. Okay. So all my places are on there. Yeah. I also have the new academy that is, we're kind of soft starting. Yeah. And that is homeschool. Academy, and that's just homeschool u.academy. [00:37:16] And so like the letter you or wireless? Yes. The letter You,  [00:37:18] Angela: I'm sorry. Thank homeschool u.academy Academy.  [00:37:21] Camille: Okay. Yes. And so that's coming out early 2023. It's gonna be, it's really an online coaching type of, Thing, but it's, it's gonna be interesting. Yeah. So yeah, they can just follow me, their Instagram for sure. [00:37:35] All my  [00:37:35] Angela: fun reels, . Yep. Gotta check those out. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, we loved having you. Thank you for being  [00:37:42] Camille: here. Thank you so much for having me. Byebye. [00:37:47]  [00:37:47] Maren: Let's move on to our loving this week. Love Lt. Ws. Angela, do you wanna get  [00:37:54] Angela: started? [00:37:55] What are you Loving this week? Sure, sure. So I'm loving something that. I, [00:38:00] somebody in our Instagram comments mentioned and I got it and now I'm wondering if you have already mentioned it to me, . So you'll have to tell me. Okay. You'll have to tell me. Okay. But I did a real, where I talked about our whiteboard as being like one of our favorite things in our house. [00:38:17] Right. And the thing that I put all of our, like, it just basically organizes our family and it sits in our living room like a big piece of artwork. Right. Yeah, exactly. Takes a place of an artwork. Piece of artwork, , and that's okay. Right? And then somebody in the comments, maybe one of you listening, said do you have the, like stickers for your fridge, [00:38:39] And I didn't. And then I looked them up. Oh, yes.  [00:38:43] Maren: You have those, The sticker whiteboards like, Yeah.  [00:38:46] Angela: Yeah. Except it's a big piece. It's not like a post. I don't have a big one. You don't have a big one. Okay, so I got these from Amazon. It is called Mc Squares. .  [00:38:59] Maren: Love  [00:38:59] Angela: it. [00:39:00] 11 i. They're 11 by 11. Okay. And they are not stickers actually. [00:39:05] So they clinging to your stainless steel appliances. It just cl. That's so nice. Yeah, so you can like remove it. It's not, doesn't not have a sticky back. I don't know how it clings. It's magic. It's science. Yeah. Doesn't matter  [00:39:18] Maren: if, if it works, just go with  [00:39:20] Angela: it. Right? So I got two cuz we have a fridge that's like, you know side by side or whatever. [00:39:26] So there's two sides, right? Mm-hmm. . So I got two, one for one for each side. 11 by 11 is perfect size. It takes up almost the whole space. Yeah. And one says like for is for everybody to write, like whatever grocer. They want me to get great. And then the other for what we're having for dinner. Oh, I love that. [00:39:45] Yeah, it's a great idea. Mm-hmm. and everybody's using it. They're all using it to write their, their requested items. And I love it so much. I,  [00:39:53] Maren: That is so nice because what happened before, What happened before you had the list , you know, somebody's like, Mom, can [00:40:00] you add this to the list? And you'd be like, you'd be like, I'm  [00:40:02] Angela: getting groceries. [00:40:03] I'd text everybody. I'm getting groceries. Does anybody want anything? And maybe one person would text me. Back a long list. Right. . Right. And the other people would be like, Oh no, I missed it. Did you already order? And so this is like, this is just always there. That's so great. A dry erase marker, always there. [00:40:22] And they can just use it. So  [00:40:24] Maren: Yeah. And that's when it's on their mind when they're at the fridge. Right. .  [00:40:29] Angela: And it's like, well, I always kind of like, I wanted. Dry erase for our fridge, but because we have stainless steel, you can't get like a magnet. Right. You can't get a magnet one. Exactly. Yeah. So it was just like, oh, our fridge is plain. [00:40:43] Which is fine, you know, it looks nice and clean. But this was, Oh, cuz the fridge is just like, it's like in the main, it's the main attraction in the kitchen. Right? Right. Definitely. So it take, this is. Prime real estate is what I'm saying. Yeah, it is. It totally is.  [00:40:58] Maren: Prime. That's awesome. Yeah, so I love it. [00:40:59] [00:41:00] Oh, I love this idea. What I had was I do have magnetic white, little square, white boards basically, and they go on the side of our fridge. Oh yes, we have this like three inch space on the side of a fridge. Remember? You know, Yeah. Our fridge goes into this, you know? Yeah. It's a built in, right? And so we have like three inches, and so I got these three inch squares, and at each square I put, you know, I have one for every day of the week, and so I just write down what we're gonna have each day  [00:41:28] Angela: for, for dinners. [00:41:30] Maren: Okay. Yeah. Which I love too. I love  [00:41:33] Angela: it. Now I remember you telling me about that. Yes. And I remember looking at it and I don't have three inches , like ours is also built in. Yes. There's nothing sticking out. There's nothing out. Yeah. ,  [00:41:44] Maren: so, So yeah. Nothing I know. So this is great for you. I love that. I'm really happy  [00:41:48] Angela: to, I'll put a link in the show notes there from Amazon, of course. [00:41:50] So, mm-hmm. . Yeah. All right. What are you loving this week, Maren? Okay. I am loving a  [00:41:54] Maren: new phone wallet. Oh, and yeah, I'm loving it because [00:42:00] it's magnetic it. And I know this is probably not earth shattering to anyone. You've probably had phones. It  [00:42:05] Angela: actually is to me .  [00:42:06] Maren: Yeah. Well I think many people have had phones that have the magnetic phone and phone case thing. [00:42:13] The MagSafe for a long time. I just got one of these, a phone case that is mag safe and it's so nice because then I. You know, Ally Hook my wallet right to the back and I love it. I love it. It looks stylish. It's called The Hive. It's fr, I think it's called Hive. Yes. Hive. Anyway, that's the brand name. Okay. [00:42:36] And I'll, I'll, I'll definitely. Give a link to this too. But I love it because number one, it fits, it says it fits six cards. Okay. There so many of these wallet cases fit  [00:42:49] Angela: one or two or,  [00:42:50] Maren: Okay. Yeah. Or I stretch it so much. Yeah. But it doesn't work anymore after, you know, So this one says six. I don't, I've never used six. [00:42:58] I usually, I like a good four. [00:43:00] Card, wallet. Mm-hmm. . And so this one fits my cards perfectly. It's just, it fits, feels really good. And then also I just, I mean, I am a person, I know, I've known this about myself for years. I need a wallet. On  [00:43:13] Angela: my phone, .  [00:43:14] Maren: Otherwise I forget my wallet. It is just the way it is. So I've been like hooked to these wallet cases for years. [00:43:22] Mm-hmm. , I need that. I know that, but I also just absolutely love the chance to take it off every once in a while and just have a phone that doesn't have a wallet on it, even just for a short amount of time. It's nice. I really like it.  [00:43:35] Angela: I appreciate. Yes, I saw you using this and yeah, I might have to copy you again. [00:43:40] I copied you on the phone wallet thing, which I have been using for years. Right, Which has been so handy. It's so nice, but the only problem with it that I have is that I can't charge it on a, On a wireless charger. Wireless charger.  [00:43:55] Maren: Yep. Yep. It's true. Yeah. And so that's another  [00:43:58] Angela: benefit. That's fine. [00:44:00] It's fine that I don't, I'm not able to do that. [00:44:02] But when I saw your wallet, removable wallet, yeah, I kind of liked that. Now, can you like put your phone in your back pocket without snagging or It can, Yes. Okay.  [00:44:12] Maren: Yep, it works great. Okay. Yes. The material is just perfect for fitting in. Yeah, so I just, I really love it. And also the, you know, the magnet is so strong, so I never worried that it's gonna fall off. [00:44:25] That was my concern always. Yeah.  [00:44:27] Angela: That the, I would  [00:44:28] Maren: just, my wallet would just fall, but this thing is  [00:44:31] Angela: really strong. That's nice. Yeah, because I think technology just keeps getting better. Obviously because I think when I considered this option mm-hmm. A few years ago they were like sticker wallets. .  [00:44:44] Maren: Yes,  [00:44:44] Angela: yes. [00:44:45] There wasn't a magnet. And then I, so I'm just, I haven't really looked, but now that I know, I think, Cause I'm not a purse person either, I'm, I'm not gonna carry a purse.  [00:44:55] Maren: You just have to be careful and get, You do need a phone case that is [00:45:00] makes safe. It says make safe phone case. Oh really? Yeah. That allows the magnet magnetism to work [00:45:09] So yes, you do need that. Okay. But a lot, There's a lot of them. Lots of choices. There's so  [00:45:14] Angela: many. Okay. Okay.  [00:45:16] Maren: I love it. Yeah. [00:45:17] Angela: A big thank you to our three sponsors out School Night, Zookeeper, and Blossom and Root. Be sure. Be sure to check out their links in our show notes.  [00:45:27] Maren: This podcast is created and hosted by Angela C and Marron Gorse. We are listener supported. To get extra content and the Back to School summit for free with your membership, go to patreon.com/homeschool unrefined. [00:45:43] You can subscribe to our newsletter and get our free top 100 inclusive book list@homeschoolunrefined.com slash newsletter. You can find Maron on Instagram at unrefined maron and at Always [00:46:00] Learning With Mar, and you can find Angela at unrefined. Angela.

Maren & Angela are checking in with each other on what's going well, what's hard right now and how their self-care is going. You can listen to the entire episode at patreon.com/homeschoolunrefined

Join Maren & Angela as they remind you to cut out the noise, adjust your expectations, and embrace your unique homeschool.   Fall 2022 Season Sponsors We are so grateful to our Fall 2022 Season Sponsors. Use the links below for their special offerings:   Blossom & Root and use code HSUnrefined15 for 15% off your purchase   Outschool and use code Unrefined for $20 off your first class    Night Zookeeper for a 7-day, risk-free trial, as well as 50% off an annual subscription  LTWs    Maren: Pomodoro Focus Timer App  Study Bunny App   Angela: Never Have I Ever   Connect with us!  Visit our website  Sign up for our newsletter and get our Top 100 Inclusive Book List We are listener supported! Support us on Patreon Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and see video episodes now on Youtube Angela on Instagram: @unrefinedangela | Maren on Instagram: @unrefinedmaren and @alwayslearningwithmaren  Email us any questions or feedback at homeschoolunrefined@gmail.com   Complete Episode Transcript   [00:00:00] Maren: Hi, we're Maren and Angela of homeschool under fine. And we are here to keep homeschool simple, real, and fun. Over the past 25 years, we've been friends, teachers, homeschool, parents, and podcasters together with our master's degrees and 20 years combined homeschooling. We are here to rethink homeschooling, learning, and education with an inclusive and authentic  [00:00:34] Angela: lens. [00:00:36] At homeschool unrefined, we prioritize things like giving yourself credit, building strong connections, respectful parenting interest led playing and learning, learning differences, mental health, self care, and listening to and elevating LGBTQ plus and BI voices.  [00:00:56] Maren: We are here to encourage and support you, whether you're [00:01:00] a new homeschooler, a veteran, you love curriculum, you're an unschooler. [00:01:06] Whether your kids are at home or all of your kids are in school or somewhere in between wherever you are on your journey, we are the voice in your head telling you you're doing great. And so are your kids.  [00:01:20] Angela: We're back Mar Hey, we're so glad to be back. It's been a time. Welcome back to the podcast. Yes. [00:01:30] Yes. This is exciting.  [00:01:31] Maren: So exciting. This is episode 1 93, your unique homeschool. Since it's the beginning of the year, we wanna talk about why your homeschool will look unique and how you can make it your very own. And then we'll end. Like we always do with our LT Ws, loving this week.  [00:01:52] Angela: We wanted to make sure that you knew about our newsletter that goes out out weekly. [00:01:57] When you sign up for it, you can get our [00:02:00] top 100 inclusive book list free. We're really excited about this book list. Mm-hmm , we've worked on it a long time. We've got books for all ages. Picture books, middle school, Y a and then we've got sections for graphic novels and audio books too. We're really, really excited about this to make sure you get that book list. [00:02:17] Go to homeschool, unrefined.com/newsletter. Or there will be a link in our show notes. Oh,  [00:02:23] Maren: and the new and the top 100 book list also has links live links to the books, which is definitely such a great thing. Yep. We've started something new this season. We are bringing you three new sponsors for the entire fall season. [00:02:38] We were very intentional about who we chose for sponsor. We really appreciate you taking the time to learn about them because we think they are really good companies. Also they're giving discount codes, so you'll want to listen for those. We're so happy to work hard on this podcast and we appreciate the financial support in [00:03:00] making it happen. [00:03:01] Angela: If you have been around a while, you know that we are picky about curriculum, and that's why we are excited to partner with blossom and root blossom. And root is a nature focused secular curriculum, focusing on create creativity, science, nature, literature, and the arts blossom and root has been gently encouraging and supporting homeschool families around the globe since 2016 blossom. [00:03:27] And. Currently offers curricula for pre-K through fifth grade, with new levels being added in the future. Additionally, a three volume inclusive us history curriculum told from a variety of viewpoints is currently in development. As of August of 2022 volume. One is available for purchase and volume two is available on presale, all profits from this history curriculum, a river of voices. [00:03:51] Will be used to support storytellers and artists from historically excluded communities. You can find samples, scope, and sequences [00:04:00] and information about each of their levels online@blossomandroot.com. You can also find them on Instagram at blossom and root blossom, and root has created a special discount just for our listeners. [00:04:13] Use the code HS on refined 15 at checkout for 15% off of your purchase. If  [00:04:21] Maren: you've listened to our podcast, you know, we are passionate about outsourcing in homeschool. out. School has been one of our very favorite ways to outsource. We know the kids who love to learn. Don't just prepare for the future. [00:04:35] They create it. That's why out school has reimagined online learning to empower kids and teens to expand their creativity, wonder and knowledge, empathetic, passionate teachers, encourage learners ages three to 18 to explore their interests, connect with diverse peers from around the world and take an active role in leading their. [00:04:59] Out [00:05:00] school has created a world filled with endless possibilities for every schooling journey. Explore over 140,000 fun and flexible live online classes to find the right fit for your family and join us as we set learning free. Sign up today at out schooler.me/homeschool unrefined, and get up to $20 off your first class. [00:05:25] When you enroll with the code  [00:05:27] Angela: UNREFINED. Mar, and I both love creative ways to teach reading and writing. That's why we're excited to introduce you to night zookeeper. Is your child a reluctant writer? Do they struggle with reading? If your answer to either of these questions is yes. The night zookeeper may just be what you're looking for. [00:05:47] Night. Zookeeper is an online learning program for children, age six to 12 years old that used a uses a gamified and creative. To help keep kids engaged and focused on developing awesome reading and [00:06:00] writing skills all while having fun at the same time, some of the features we love include the educational games, the personalized feedback on writing from real tutors and the super safe community pages where children can work with each other and learn together if Knight zookeeper. [00:06:17] Sounds like the perfect learning program for your child. You can try it for free by clicking on the link in the show notes. When you register, you'll get a seven day risk free trial, as well as a huge 50% discount off on annual subscription. That's a great deal. If you ask me, I'll write,  [00:06:35] Maren: let's dive into our topic today, which is. [00:06:40] Your unique homeschool. Mm-hmm we pick this topic because it's the beginning of the year and, and we know how it feels to be at the start. And if we look back, we've done lots of these episodes. We've talked a lot about starting the year. And we've also talked a lot about making homeschool, our. [00:07:00]  [00:07:01] Angela: yeah. [00:07:01] You know, at the beginning of the year we're excited. Yes. And sometimes a little bit. It can be a, we can be a little bit overly enthusiastic, not enthusiastic, but we might have our site set, set a little bit high. I know that always happened to me. And sometimes we are doing maybe not too much, but maybe too much of what we think we should be doing. [00:07:21] Sure. And not necessarily what is best for us and our kids.  [00:07:26] Maren: You know, it is so true. Like we set up this, oh, what looks like amazing on paper homeschool, you know, the schedule, you've got a balanced amount of all subjects through throughout the week. And you've picked out the perfect read aloud and then. [00:07:47] You know, 10 things happen that make it all kind of like go, you know, awry things go awry. And, and it's really easy at this, especially at the beginning of the year to just think, oh my goodness, I am not cut out for [00:08:00] this or my kids aren't coming out for this, this isn't gonna work. I have, I made all these plans and none of them worked out. [00:08:06] And so right away at the beginning of the year, it can feel a little bit. Oh, man, what a let down, you know, right away. But a lot of the times that is because we have set our expectations grand we've made, we've set these grand expectations.  [00:08:22] Angela: Yeah. And you know, sometimes you might not think that right away, because you're like, I'm already. [00:08:27] Doing like less than I probably should be doing. Mm-hmm mm-hmm or I'm already doing things a little bit differently maybe than I did last year, or I already feel like we're doing a slow start. And so like, we haven't really even gotten going yet. And so it can feel like really there, you, we're not talking about, we're not talking about you. [00:08:46] Mm-hmm mm-hmm but we are because. Even though all of those things might be in place. Something might just still feel off. Maybe your days are feeling hectic. Maybe there's not like an excitement [00:09:00] or spark. Right, right. Or maybe you're not getting to things that you wanted to get to, or maybe your kids aren't excited about this right now or something there's maybe something off. [00:09:11] Right.  [00:09:11] Maren: And yeah. And it's, it is true that we, even, when we think we've, we've pared it down, we're homeschooling, we're gonna do less than what they might do at a traditional school during the day. Right. But I think often we have to cut that down. Maybe even more, especially at the beginning of the year, especially at the beginning of the year, but I would say probably. [00:09:34] A lot of the times mm-hmm we need to cut. We need to, we need to make what we're doing count , you know, mm-hmm and so that means probably doing less, less than we even think we should. You know, we, we thought we cut it dump. We need to maybe cut it down even more.  [00:09:54] Angela: mm-hmm and you know, that could be really hard because even though we [00:10:00] are doing things differently. [00:10:01] I mean, you're homeschooling, so you are different than, yeah. Most people, you know, right. You're already bucking the system. You're already backing the system by homeschooling. Okay. Right. So even though you're doing things differently, we still like have this, we still strive a little bit for uniformity. [00:10:18] We still wanna make sure that we. Checking all the boxes and that we are doing what we should be doing. Mm-hmm mm-hmm and We still like, have this idea that if we're just doing all these things, like everything's gonna be okay, it's kind of like, you want this control over your kids' education, you know, it's a big deal, right? [00:10:38] Your kids' education. Yeah. And you are striving for this control. That might be You know, it's really, it's an illusion. It's not really, we don't really have control too much control and so, right, right,  [00:10:51] Maren: right. But it feels, you know, especially when we're diving into this new, it's a new endeavor maybe or something, and it just feels like we do feel, it feels like we kind of need [00:11:00] that. [00:11:00] We need to, we need to hold onto something. And then the one thing , you know, that we're holding onto. If you. Sometimes that doesn't pan out. And so it does, it does, it does feel like we do have to  [00:11:12] Angela: let go of that, right? Because here's the thing. If you are being authentic to who you are and who your kids are, your homeschool is gonna look unique. [00:11:22] It's gonna, it's gonna look different than what you're seeing online. Yep. It's gonna look different than anything we've ever done. It's gonna look different than the person at your co-op or your neighbor or your sister-in-law or whoever is homeschooling. It is going to look different because yes, you are being authentic to who you are and who your kids are. [00:11:41] Maren: And here's why you wanna do that. you wanna do that because we all learn best and most efficiently when we're doing the things that. Are interesting to us when we're enjoying those things. When we, when we have an emotional tie to them and [00:12:00] those things are gonna be different for everyone mm-hmm . And so our home school's gonna look different. [00:12:06] Angela: Yeah. And you know not only that, but like every person learns differently, which is something we talk about a lot. Right. Every person learns differently. So some people, you know, like to sit at a table and do more of like the traditional mm-hmm mm-hmm book and a notebook type of learning . Some people like to read with their eyes. [00:12:24] Yeah. Some people like to need to be getting up and moving around. Right. Some people need to be traveling or having adventures or, you know, some people need to be playing Legos and listening to an audio book or whatever. Yeah. There's a lot of different ways that learning can happen. And so if you, again, you want, you want that for yourself and your children, because if you, if they. [00:12:48] If they're doing, if they're taking in the information, if they're learning authentically, then that's gonna be also efficient and effective. It is  [00:12:57] Maren: it's gonna be efficient. Like and if that is what [00:13:00] helps you wrap your mind around having a unique homeschool, then go with it. Like, because. To when your homeschool is uniquely yours, it is most efficient. [00:13:10] It really is. And it might seem like all frivolous things, but it is  [00:13:16] Angela: actually.  [00:13:18] Maren: The most learning or your time. It is actually the most learning for your time. It's not fluffy. It's actually deep, dense work that's happening, but it's because it's like you're diving into what your kids are super excited about. [00:13:33] That's where the best media learning happens. And so just savor that, like give yourself credit for all that learning that's happening. That's uniquely. Geared towards your kids, so exciting for  [00:13:48] Angela: sure. And oh yeah, go. I was just gonna say, like, there's a reason you're not in school. Right? What is that reason? [00:13:54] What is the reason that your kids aren't in school? Well, it's because you need something different, you know? [00:14:00] I mean, I don't know what that is. I don't know what that is for you, but you needed something different. And so your homeschool does not have to look like school. It does not have to look like school in the number of hours. [00:14:12] Yeah, it doesn't have to look like school in the number of days. It does not have to look like school in the time of day. It does not have to look like school in the subjects that you are doing. It does not have to look like sitting at a desk like they do at school. School does things. School is good for a lot of kids, right? [00:14:30] But school is, is working with a classroom of 30 kids. Mm-hmm and they are working within constraints that you don't have. You have this freedom at home to do things that are best for your child. So make it look different because that is your advantage to being at home.  [00:14:47] Maren: I think this is such a big mistake of, of, you know, of many homeschoolers. [00:14:51] I will, I will put myself in that category, this category too, some big mistakes that we've probably all made is. The reason why we took our [00:15:00] kids outta school. We recreate those things at home. Like, you know, it was really hard for my child to do, I don't know, fractions and fourth grade, and then you take 'em home and you're like, okay, but you still have to do fractions in fourth grade. [00:15:17] yeah. You're in fourth grade or something. yeah. You know?  [00:15:20] Angela: Yeah, because you have in the back of your mind, like. Oh, but I, my kid still needs to learn this and it's still really important. And I'm just gently asking you why mm-hmm . Why do you think that you should just question the, these assumptions that you are repeating or that you hold in your head and I'm not saying it's not important. [00:15:40] I'm not saying fractions. Aren't important. I'm just saying, right, right. No, no, no, absolutely not ask yourself. Just, just question the things that you are holding dear. Right at this time,  [00:15:50] Maren: another thing that I think, you know, we take our kids home from school because of, you know, it might be some mental health issues or, you know, like they need more [00:16:00] connection, they need more connection. [00:16:01] And so we bring them home and then, you know, it's very easy to be like, okay, we can connect, but then we also have to do all these things. So I would say. If that's where you're at right now, you know, like 80, 90% of your day should be, you know, just fostering the connection. It shouldn't be, it doesn't have to be much of academics at all. [00:16:23] Maybe it's nothing right now, you know? So I'm just saying there is time for the The academics or whatever it is that, you know, you are feeling kind of rigid about right now, there is, there's gonna be time for that and it's gonna mm-hmm happen and it's gonna happen efficiently  [00:16:41] Angela: and effectively  [00:16:43] Maren: after you've. [00:16:44] You know, created this homeschool, this unique homeschool for yourself. Yeah. This, you know, the environment, the vibe, the connection, the, yeah. The enjoyment. If you create that first,  [00:16:57] Angela: mm-hmm,  [00:16:58] Maren: get that established and you can [00:17:00] always pull in things. You might have to sneak them in. You might, you might be able to do blocks of whatever the fractions or whatever. [00:17:08] But like create, create the environment first and that's gonna be  [00:17:13] Angela: so, so unique. Yeah. That's so good. One thing that I always strive for too is I wanna have kind of like what you're talking about. I wanna have like a balanced life and I, yes, don't really know how to say this. Other than like, I kind of want my weekends to look similar to my weekdays, you know, how. [00:17:30] In a traditional school or traditional work environment. You're like, oh, thank gosh, it's Friday. Oh yeah. Like I can finally relax it's Saturday, whatever. And then the Sunday dread, like, you know yeah. Yeah. And you're like gearing up for a week that you like hate or that you're just not looking forward to. [00:17:47] I want my kids, I want my kids and myself to be able to look forward to the week and look, and look forward to every day. Like this is balanced. We have enough time of. Rest we have enough time of [00:18:00] enjoying what we're doing. Yes, there are also some challenges and some things that are hard, but it doesn't have to take up the entire week. [00:18:08] And then it can feel like a this balance between like hard work and play and all of the things that are needed in a human life basically.  [00:18:18] Maren: Right. A self-regulated life. Exactly. Yeah. So, so, so true. So how do we do this? How do we, how do we. Create this unique homeschool that we really, really want, but we also feel. [00:18:33] Just pulled towards the needs and the the control sometimes.  [00:18:38] Angela: Yeah. And I think this starts with really like knowing yourself and your children. Yes. Yep. And I know we talk about this so much and but it's true, really getting to know yourself and getting to know your kids and, and not only like how they learn, but like what they're interested in. [00:18:56] Yeah. And what they wanna learn. Is the thing. It is [00:19:00] crucial in, in hearing them and not just hearing them, but like validating what they are interested in and validating who they are and lifting that up as being like really important. It's not a hindrance. It's not a roadblock to what you need to get done. [00:19:19] It is, it is the thing that you are working with. It is the, it is the reason you're here. And so like, use that to, yes. Create this life, this homeschool life.  [00:19:30] Maren: That is mind blowing what you just said. I wanna say that we talk about this a lot in our back to school summit, which is available. You can go to our website or our patron and it's, you'll find it. [00:19:43] It's free for patrons. It's free. It's free for patrons. It's. I mean, this, we talk about this, a lot of asking our kids and we go through specifically how to do that, how to  [00:19:53] Angela: go through, you know, this  [00:19:56] Maren: process where we figure out. The [00:20:00] school we wanna create the home, the home we wanna.  [00:20:03] Angela: With our kids. Right. So it, it involves, you know, like getting to know them and asking, you know, like I just talked about things that they're interested in, things that they wanna do, things that they wanna prioritize. [00:20:14] And then there will also be things that are important to you as the parent, you know, like, right. Absolutely. Yeah. You know what? Math is important to me and we, we do have to do that or you might have you know, something else that's also really important to you, but It's kind of a way of really listening to your kid first and foremost, and then also like sneaking in or fitting in a few things that are important to you too. [00:20:39] Maren: Mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah. And also, I mean, it is just as valuable. What they really want is just as valuable as what you want. And so it's okay to say this is really important to me. Let's figure out how we can work it all in together. I would say also when you, when you learn together about yourselves and [00:21:00] what unique things you wanna bring into your homeschool, maybe it's rock climbing. [00:21:06] you know, maybe it's You know, lots of trampoline time. I don't know. What is it? What's the thing that's like, just  [00:21:13] Angela: fires your kids up and maybe it's friends a lot of time. It's friends, friends time. Yeah. Lots of friends. It might  [00:21:19] Maren: be creating your own YouTube  [00:21:21] Angela: channel. I don't know. But I would say  [00:21:23] Maren: whatever those things are. [00:21:26] I would wager to guess there's probably, you're probably going to needs at some point in your homeschool, some unstructured time, and that just gives them this, you know, maybe an extended amount of time to do the thing that they're super interested in doing without you know, a parent led kind of thing. [00:21:46] It's like their time to explore and create and enjoy their interest. However they want to, and there can be times like obviously when there's parent support and things like that, but unstructured time does [00:22:00] feel a little, it feels like there's not much control there, but it also, and there can be certainly parameters around that, but that I have found that unstructured time is often what makes our homeschool has made our homeschool very unique. [00:22:18] Because everybody's doing the thing that they oh, yeah. Really are passionate or excited about or interested in, or just learning about for the first time, you know, mm-hmm, , it's just, you never know where they're gonna be on that spectrum, but it's just, it's so fun  [00:22:31] Angela: to watch. Yeah. Mar, this is so important, this unstructured time, because it's a win-win for everybody. [00:22:38] I know. As a parent, you need a break. I know you do. Mm-hmm I know you work so hard and it is a win-win. Yeah, you are not only homeschooling. Yeah. You're also doing everything around the house and Parenting and a million other things and prob maybe working and yeah, maybe you have a partner and you know, I don't know. [00:22:58] I know you you're [00:23:00] busy and or you probably have a baby, you probably have a lot of babies. I don't know. You probably really, really busy and you need, you need a break from homeschooling. This is, this is what you take it. Take this unstructured time, build it in every day from noon to one. Or noon to two or noon to three or whatever it is, however you wanna structure it. [00:23:21] We have unstructured time. Yes. This is when you can do whatever you are interested in, do it totally, totally. And it's not  [00:23:28] Maren: just the side time. This is not like, after you've done all the important things I'm going to give you this extra. Side time or whatever. No, no, no. This is the meet. This is,  [00:23:41] Angela: this is the heart of your homeschool. [00:23:44] Yeah. Yeah. And so Martin, I anticipate the, the butts or the mm-hmm the questions. People are gonna, the main question right now is probably like, well, what if my kid just wants to play on the iPad the whole time of their unstructured time? Like what would you say to [00:24:00] that? Well, that's  [00:24:00] Maren: a good question. I mean, everybody has their own boundaries. [00:24:04] Screen time. Yeah. I would say screen time is a valid thing to do. Yeah. During unstructured time. There's a lot of actually, when we say iPad time or screen time, we clump that all into. Bad category yeah. Find out what they're actually doing on their screen time. Mm-hmm maybe they're, you know, I don't know, learning how to  [00:24:26] Angela: do something on YouTube. [00:24:28] There's a lot of good stuff that could be happening. You  [00:24:30] Maren: never know. And it could be, or maybe it could be something that you initially. Cringe at,  [00:24:36] Angela: oh, they're watching a gamer on YouTube. I think that  [00:24:41] Maren: is dumb. I do not like that. , you know, or whatever. But I, I want you, I just wanna challenge you to number one, open your mind towards, to like, you know, what are the positive qualities of that? [00:24:51] There probably are some, so I would say number one, allow it allow some of. You know, also have your own [00:25:00] boundaries for it too. Yep. You know, it's okay. If you are uncomfortable with the amount of time they are getting influenced by this one YouTuber or whatever it is, that is you're right. You're probably right about that. [00:25:12] You know, there, there are some for sure boundaries that. Canon should be in place and talk about it and discuss why you're doing that too, for sure. So our, your kids understand but they also, they need to be heard, but then they also need to, you know, understand the boundaries. And so I think it's. [00:25:29] But then also, what are those? Okay. Dig more into like, what are those interests that they're, you know, actually into they're doing screen time, but what's the underlying like interest. Maybe you can draw something out of that. That's not on screens too. There's a lot of things like maybe this screen time goes along with a project. [00:25:48] You know, or I don't know who knows  [00:25:51] Angela: it might. And then you also wanna be careful not to ruin their love by creating a project that they have to do during which I've done structured time. I know we've all done that they've [00:26:00] done several times. Yeah. You do wanna,  [00:26:02] Maren: you do want them to be able to own that time and really feel like it's  [00:26:06] Angela: theirs. [00:26:06] Yeah. Right. So, I mean, I've done this several different ways. I've been like, yeah. Have at the screen time, I've also been like, well, you can do anything except screen time right now. I want you to like, think of different. I want you to think of other things that you're interested in. And also I have to say, like, this really depends on the child because like, yes, each one of my kids would handle this differently. [00:26:25] And I would probably parent differently around each of them. You know, you have again, it's about knowing yourself and your kids. Yep. And what works for everybody. Yes. Yes. But just the point is like having some time to be like, Hey, what do I really wanna do? Can you imagine if somebody said that to you right now? [00:26:42] Like, Hey Angela, right now for the next three hours, you only can do something that you're interested in. Like my gosh. Yeah. like, I would be so excited. Like you can't do any chores. You can't, you know,  [00:26:56] Maren: like, can't do any grocery shopping.  [00:26:58] Angela: Yeah. You can't. Yeah, no cleaning. You [00:27:00] have, you can, you can only do your interest right now. [00:27:02] How exciting. Yeah. Yeah, that would be really exciting. So give your child that gift. And again, it doesn't have to be three hours. It could be one or whatever.  [00:27:09] Maren: Exactly. Exactly whatever fits your unique homeschool, it's yours. Yeah. And then also just under this category of how I, I wanna reiterate, you may have to just do loss, less check, check. [00:27:22] How check in with your yourself, check in with your kids. How are you feeling? Are you feeling stressed? Is there, is there anything, you know, that's causing this stress and it may be that you've still like, just planned. Strived. really hard. And to make this homeschool, you know, mm-hmm, successful and it's a lot of, it can feel like a lot of work. [00:27:47] So I would just say, you know, it's okay to do  [00:27:49] Angela: less. It's okay to do less because here's the thing you're playing the long game. You don't have to do 10 subjects every week. For every [00:28:00] year of your child's life, you just don't. And so, you know, if you're making sure that you do everything right now, you really don't have to do that. [00:28:09] You can put out, you can just pick out the things that are the priority and save the rest for later. And. Sometime that thing will come up in a way that is authentic to everyone involved. And that's when you do that. And if it doesn't, you find a way to fit it in, at some point, you know what we've never actually done. [00:28:26] You know, I don't know us history or Victoria never done geography or whatever, you know what? We should probably do that. And then you will find a way to do it. It does not need to be every year, every week. Yep, exactly. Ugh. So give yourself the, the gift of doing a little bit less. Here's the good news. [00:28:46] You can always add more. Yep. You can always add more. You can, you can add more if you need to, if you do less and you're like, this isn't really feeling right. You don't have to do that. You can add more to make it feel better. Yep.  [00:28:59] Maren: Yep. [00:29:00] That's awesome. All right. Okay. Well I hope you found some nuggets that are gonna help you this. [00:29:08] This week in your homeschool, know what we're always  [00:29:10] Angela: going for is just a little bit of encouragement to yep. Let you know that we know you work hard and you're doing great. You're doing  [00:29:18] Maren: great. Yep. And we're not here to add more things to your plate. We're never here to add more. We're here to, if anything, take things off of your plate and help you feel like where you're at right now is great. [00:29:30] Yes, definitely. You're doing great right now. So, all right.  [00:29:34] Angela: All right. Let's move on to our loving this week's yes. We're really excited to get back to these. Yeah. The foods are one of our favorite parts of our. So Marin. Yes. What are you loving this week?  [00:29:46] Maren: Okay. I'm loving an app, actually. There's an app for me that I like to use. [00:29:51] It's called Pomodoro and it's this work method of working for 25 minutes and then taking a break for five minutes and I've been doing some [00:30:00] longer projects and this has been really great for me. Especially with someone with ADHD is to help me know like it's just an app and I start it and I see. [00:30:10] Visually the time are going down. Okay. From 25 minutes down to zero, and I know exactly how long I'm gonna be sitting at a computer and working, and then I know I'm gonna have a five minute break and then it starts my five minute break as well. That's  [00:30:27] Angela: awesome.  [00:30:27] Maren: Yeah. And I'm, I'm loving it because it's just like a, it's a limited amount of time that I know that I'm gonna be working. [00:30:35] Angela: Does it shut off like your distractions on your phone for that time too? Or do you still get text and  [00:30:40] Maren: stuff? No, it doesn't. But no, mm-hmm, I wonder if there, there may be an option for that and I don't know. Okay. I know there are some apps that do that.  [00:30:49] Angela: Yes. Okay. Yeah, you did tell me about this and I didn't get it, but I did start implementing it with just, yeah. [00:30:57] My time. On it's great too. Yes. And I have [00:31:00] to say it is really nice to be cuz then you, at the end you can be like, I just worked for 25 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. You feel accomplished.  [00:31:07] Maren: Right. And it has been proven that you do need those little breaks in your, for your brain. I mean  [00:31:12] Angela: you do. Yes. You need those breaks. [00:31:14] Mm-hmm mm-hmm so you're not tempted to go like. An hour,  [00:31:19] Maren: right? Because it's, it gets less efficient, you know, to work, to work that long. It does. Okay. Your brain just is less efficient when you're working that long and, and a deeper thing. So anyway, and then there's this, this one, there's also an app that is specifically for kids that is similar and it's called study bunny. [00:31:41] Focus timer B U N N Y. Mm. Okay. And so one of my kids just got this and it's a cute little gamified version of this, where you can earn points and you can set your timer. And it's much shorter. There's a cute little bunny that. [00:32:00] Times you . Mm that's awesome. Yeah, and it, and it looks a lot like a little game and yeah, you get points and you can buy things within the app with the points and it also, and I haven't explored this a ton, but there is a visual tracker too. [00:32:15] It'll show you very color. There's very colorful little A very colorful, like little bar graph. That'll show you like how long you spent on each of these. Yeah. Doing each of these things. So you gonna say that's awesome. I wanna read for five minutes. Yeah. And put that on there.  [00:32:29] Angela: So. That sounds great. And I have to say, like, this could work for any kid, not just a kid who has ADHD. [00:32:36] Right? Totally. Or just an adult who has ADHD, but like this works for anybody. It really does. It does.  [00:32:42] Maren: It's it's, it's widely used apps, both of these. That's awesome. So many people. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Angela, what do you  [00:32:50] Angela: loving this week? All right. I'm loving. My, my favorite show came back for season three and I had to tell everybody about it. [00:32:56] It's called never have I ever. Yeah. sudden [00:33:00] Netflix. This is a Mindy kaing production. I probably have talked about season one or two, one and two on here before. Because I love it so much. Yes. It's a teenage show. it? It is about high school, but don't care. You know, you just, you love what you love, right? [00:33:16] And I love you. Love what you love. High school high school shows I'm into those. Not all of 'em I'm into well done. High school shows. This is well done. This is well written. This is creative. This is. The characters in season three, if you've watched season one and two and you haven't watched three, yet three is the best the characters have developed really are learning from their mistakes. [00:33:39] They are, I would in, I want my kids to watch this because it's their good role models. For your teen. I feel like, right. That's awesome. Just in the way that they handle situations which is, is so  [00:33:53] Maren: great because it doesn't shy away from issues. No.  [00:33:56] Angela: And  [00:33:57] Maren: yet it's still a good  [00:33:58] Angela: positive show. [00:34:00] When I say they're good role models for my teens, I don't mean that they don't make mistakes and they don't do things that I wouldn't want my teens doing. [00:34:08] Like, you know, there's some drinking and sex and stuff like that. So but what I mean by is like the way they communicate, the way they are inclusive, mm-hmm the way they are growing and learning from their mistakes, I think is. Really really, really well done. I just, that's just the best. I think this is top notch and the actors are amazing. [00:34:30] Just love it. It's on Netflix. Yes. On episodes each season. I'm not embarrassed to say I binge them like in one sitting when it comes out. So I love him so much. Well, and Mindy healing,  [00:34:45] Maren: I can't, you can't go wrong. I mean, she's just wonderful.  [00:34:48] Angela: So cannot go wrong. Mm-hmm. If you haven't watched it, you wanna check it. [00:34:53] All right. All right. Well, thank you everybody for being here for our first episode, back for the fall [00:35:00] 2022 season, we wanna thank again, our three sponsors for the season blossom and root out school and night zookeeper. You should go to our show notes and check out their links and their discounts. This podcast is created and hosted by Angela C and Marron gorse. [00:35:17] We are listener supported to get extra content and the back to school summit free with your membership. Go to patreon.com/homeschool unrefined. Subscribe to our newsletter and get our free top 100 inclusive book list at homeschool. unrefined.com/newsletter. You can find Maren on Instagram @unrefinedmaren, and @ alwayslearningwithmaren and you can find Angela @unrefinedangela.

For our Patreon September Q&P, we answered this question from Michelle: Have you done an episode on kids and social media? How do you make decisions on when your kids are ready for it and what type of conversations/actions do you take to help them be physically and emotionally safe on the apps? To hear the rest of this conversation, sign up for Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/homeschoolunrefined To get our FREE Inclusive Booklist, go to https://www.homeschoolunrefined.com/newsletter Our new Fall 2022 Season starts Monday September 26th!

Maren & Angela are checking in with each other on what's going well, what's hard right now and how their self-care is going. You can listen to the entire episode at patreon.com/homeschoolunrefined

Today we process through this question from a listener: I'd love to hear more about neurodivergence and homeschooling. I have one (probably) neurotypical kid and one who is neurodivergent. Things that would be great to hear about: evaluations/diagnosis, support kids with different needs, how not to feel so alone when you have a kid who can't do typical homeschool things (it's hard to find meaningful connections when a lot of groups don't work for us). I know a lot of this can apply to any kid, but anything you want to share about neurodivergence and homeschool would be welcome! To hear the entire conversation, go to patreon.com/homeschoolunrefined

We're sharing some of the most-loved episodes from our archives. Here's #1!   To find out more about the Back To School Summit, you can either head to patreon.com/homeschoolunrefined or our website at homeschoolunrefined.com/summit   We do two episodes a week—this is our free one. Join us on Patreon to unlock a NEW episode every week for just $5/month!   #1: Where We Empower Kids to Self-Evaluate This episode originally aired on September 10, 2018.   This week, we dive into the vital skill of self-evaluating.  We hone in on why it’s so good and how we do it (or how we WANT to do it more).  We also think of some good examples of what it looks like when there is successful self-evaluation happening.  As always, we have a fun chat to start out the episode, and we end with our LTWs (Loving This Weeks).      It's all happening on Patreon! You can always get new content on Patreon! Join our $5 Squad on Patreon to get an extra episode every week. Every month, you'll get 2 Listener Q&P (Question & Process) Episodes, an LTW Extra episode, and a monthly check-in where we get real about what's going well, what's hard right now, and what we're doing for self-care. You'll also get plugged into our community of like-minded parents for support, encouragement, and fun!   More About Homeschool Unrefined We are an inclusive and nonsectarian podcast. We believe Black Lives Matter, and we are LGBTQ+ affirming (for more, read our piece on Romper). We are listener supported and are donating 10% of all Patreon income and product sales to The Conscious Kid, a Black and Brown-led organization that has been instrumental in our own evolution and in leading the way in both ideological and tangible change with their work in “parenting and education through a critical race lens." Read our full ABAR Statement here and on Instagram.   Connect with us!  Visit our website | Sign up for our newsletter. | Support us on Patreon. | bookshop.org Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and Youtube Angela on Instagram: @unrefinedangela | Maren on Instagram: @unrefinedmaren Email us any questions or feedback at homeschoolunrefined@gmail.com