IndoctriNation

Returning this week is Roberta Blevins, a former "Hun", who left the MLM world in 2017 and began publicly educating and speaking out against it. In her time in MLM, she was involved as a consultant for 3; It Works!, LuLaRoe and Modere, and a customer of many. Since leaving MLM, she has educated herself on the systemic structure of the business model, the psychological manipulation, the seedy underbelly, and governmental ties, the cult indoctrination, and the history of Multi-Level Marketing. She educates daily on TikTok, and podcasts in her "free time", talking to the survivors and victims of these commercial cults, disguised as the quickest route to the American Dream. In this second part of their two-part conversation, Rachel begins by sharing how she lost a friendship to an MLM, while Roberta goes on to describe the moment that prompted her to finally leave the MLM world. Roberta details a day in the life of a "hun" and how she ultimately extricated herself from the pyramid. She also discussed her transition into "hun" advocacy and anti-MLM activism through both education and humor. Before You Go: Rachel addresses the guilt that ex-members of high control groups often feel after leaving the group. She provides insight into the self-loathing that can accompany the admission of predatory behavior in ex-members. Listen to Roberta's podcast "Life After MLM" here: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/life…lm/id1553784236 Find Rachel's book "Now I Know, Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: https://www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel-Bernstein/dp/1620867893/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=now+i+know+rachel+bernstein&qid=1638298566&sr=8-1 Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters Robert Andre and "Teahaze" and to Hollie Hire and Katherine Matheson for increasing their support! We couldn't do it without you! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This week's guest, Roberta Blevins is a former "Hun", who left the MLM world in 2017 and began publicly educating and speaking out against it. In her time in MLM, she was involved as a consultant for 3; It Works!, LuLaRoe and Modere, and a customer of many. Since leaving MLM, she has educated herself on the systemic structure of the business model, the psychological manipulation, the seedy underbelly, and governmental ties, the cult indoctrination, and the history of Multi-Level Marketing. She educates daily on TikTok, and podcasts in her "free time", talking to the survivors and victims of these commercial cults, disguised as the quickest route to the American Dream. In this first part of their two-part conversation, Roberta explains to Rachel how she works to end the stigma of failure in the MLM industry, which she explains is designed for failure. Together they unpack the tactics of the now infamous MLM, LuLaRoe, that Roberta says signifies a commercial cult. Roberta shares her emotional journey as she transitions from "hun" to anti-MLM activist providing a detailed analysis of the schemes used in this deceptive and dangerous industry. Before You Go: Rachel expands on the concept of the sunk cost fallacy and points out some of the many examples where it can be found, offering insights for walking away from deceptive traps. Listen to Roberta's podcast "Life After MLM" here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/life-after-mlm/id1553784236 Find Rachel's book "Now I Know, Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: https://www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel-Bernstein/dp/1620867893/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=now+i+know+rachel+bernstein&qid=1637717066&sr=8-1 Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter "to change"! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Lola Blanc is a singer/songwriter, filmmaker, actress, and cult survivor. Her single “Angry Too” has over 20 million streams on Spotify, and as a songwriter, Blanc has also written for other artists including Britney Spears. Blanc’s work as a filmmaker has been spotlighted by BILLBOARD, FANGORIA, FUNNY OR DIE, and the prestigious short film channel OMELETO. Much of her work is inspired by her childhood practicing Mormonism, where she and her mother fell prey to a charismatic “prophet,” who turned out to be a cult leader. Meagan Elizabeth is a stand-up comedian, writer, and actress from Los Angeles who has performed at the legendary Laugh Factory. She was raised in a high control Christian group known as the Two by Twos, an international, home-based new religious movement that has its origins in Ireland at the end of the 19th century. Among members, the church is typically referred to as "The Truth" or "The Way" Together, Lola & Meagan co-host a podcast called Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and the Abuse of Power, where they share their experiences and fight the stigma cult survivors are often exposed to. On the show, they have interviewed survivors of groups like NXIVM, the Manson Family, Heaven’s Gate, the Children of God, and many more. In this week's conversation, Lola and Meagan share with Rachel their experiences growing up in cults noting the similarities in the control mechanisms used as well as the after-effects that come to light with distance from the group. Together they unravel the patriarchal structure of both groups and explain the work it took for them to overcome this sexist conditioning. Lola and Meagan go on to provide insights on what gave them the courage to leave and discuss how it's felt to share their personal tragedy in public as a means to fight the stigma and loneliness of other survivors. Before You Go: Rachel explains how cults take advantage of followers through the use of confession and relates it to Robert J Lifton's criteria for thought reform. She explains how to share wisely, but also withhold wisely. Find Rachel's book "Now I Know, Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: https://www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel-Bernstein/dp/1620867893/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=rachel+bernstein&qid=1637051476&s=books&sr=1-2 Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter "A" and to "Free From RF" and Katherine Matheson for increasing their pledges! We really appreciate you! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Returning this week is Thomas who grew up in Denmark with a covert narcissist mother who kept him socially isolated, emotionally abused him, and manipulated his sense of reality. For most of his life, he didn’t realize that anything was wrong, because of the covert nature of the emotional abuse, control, and gaslighting he was exposed to. A year ago he started to get a better grasp of his own reality and slowly began to understand what had really happened. Thomas is back on the show hoping to help others better recognize signs of covert abuse and control. Thomas continues his conversation with Rachel by explaining what it was like when he first left home, fleeing his narcissistic mother for the first time. He shares with us his inner dialogue as he begins to find true trust and love when he first meets his wife Thomas goes on to explain how his wife helped him unmask the covert narcissistic tendencies of his mother. Throughout the conversation, Rachel helps Thomas unpack the manipulation and emotional neglect he experienced as a child. Before You Go: Rachel gives advice to people who have experienced emotional sadism and addresses the fear and trepidation that can hinder their growth as a result. She notes that their perpetrators often lack the ability to have regrets or even re-examine their actions. Check out Rachel's Youtube videos on narcissism here: https://youtu.be/KHdMYbkrQ-0 https://youtu.be/-OWudR86JjU https://youtu.be/jtrEVDdZ7kc Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters Ilya Reyter and Alex P! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Our guest this week, Thomas, is from Denmark, and grew up alone with a covert narcissist mother who kept him socially isolated, emotionally abused him, and manipulated his sense of reality. For most of his life, he didn’t realize that anything was wrong, because of the covert nature of the emotional abuse, control, and gaslighting he was exposed to. A year ago he started to get a better grasp of his own reality and slowly began to understand what had really happened. Thomas is on the show hoping that his story can help others better recognize signs of covert abuse and control. Thomas explains to Rachel how, in retrospect he came to understand the emotional neglect and covert narcissism he experienced as a child. Rachel provides her insights on the manipulative parenting techniques of Thomas's mother and explains how they relate to those of cult leaders. Together, they unpack some of the most impactful moments in Thomas's childhood development and the emotional reverberations that followed. Before You Go: Rachel further examines the idea of future faking and breaks down how manipulators offer their victims a fraudulent promise or false hope in order to keep them distracted and under control. Check out Rachel's Youtube videos on narcissism here: https://youtu.be/KHdMYbkrQ-0 https://youtu.be/-OWudR86JjU https://youtu.be/jtrEVDdZ7kc Thanks to all of our amazing Patreon supporters! We couldn't do it without you! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Our returning guest, Claire Headley was born and raised in Scientology and joined Scientology's "Sea Organization" at 16, including signing a billion-year contract. In the Sea Org, Claire was quickly promoted to Scientology's international headquarters in Hemet, California, where she worked for 14 years, including working as an executive in their Religious Technology Center under David Miscavige, Scientology's current leader. Claire escaped in 2005 at the age of 30, and since that time Claire and her husband Marc (author of Blown for Good: Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology) have been speaking out against Scientology's abusive practices. Claire appeared in 3 seasons of Leah Remini: Scientology & The Aftermath and has contributed to many other documentaries, articles, and radio shows, educating the general public on Scientology. Claire also now serves on the board of The Aftermath Foundation, a non-profit organization that assists people leaving Scientology to start new lives. In this second half of their two-part conversation, Claire recalls for Rachel the inner emotional turmoil she experienced after escaping from Scientology. Rachel offers her insights on the psychological difficulties that are commonplace among people who have recently extricated themselves from all manner of high control groups. Together they examine the types of support that can help ex-group members recover safely and effectively. Claire explains how her advocacy for survivors has been an intrinsic part of her own healing. Before You Go: Rachel examines how many high control groups eliminate communication and anything perceived as negativity among its members. This, she explains keeps them isolated in their suffering, and prevents the peer support that gives individuals the courage to leave. More info on the Headley's lawsuit against Scientology here: https://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/defectors-claire-and-marc-headley-say-church-of-scientology-tried-to/1250163/ More info on Marc Headley's book here: blownforgood.com/ Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters: Mel Layos and Ato Essandoh!! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination We also want to give a big shout-out to Jeanette Ojala for increasing her pledge! If you'd like to do the same find out how here: https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000126286-Editing-your-membership#h_01EPWHK1GFVD92RGVC6GT00ED2 Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This week's guest, Claire Headley was born and raised in Scientology and joined Scientology's "Sea Organization" at 16, including signing a billion-year contract. In the Sea Org, Claire was quickly promoted to Scientology's international headquarters in Hemet, California, where she worked for 14 years, including working as an executive in their Religious Technology Center under David Miscavige, Scientology's current leader. Claire escaped in 2005 at the age of 30, and since that time Claire and her husband Marc (author of Blown for Good: Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology) have been speaking out against Scientology's abusive practices. Claire appeared in 3 seasons of Leah Remini: Scientology & The Aftermath and has contributed to many other documentaries, articles, and radio shows, educating the general public on Scientology. Claire also now serves on the board of The Aftermath Foundation, a non-profit organization that assists people leaving Scientology to start new lives. In this first part of a two-part conversation, Claire recounts for Rachel the damaging neglect of her childhood in Scientology, and together they survey the multiple practices the organization used on"cadets" that can leave children scarred for life. Claire speaks about her traumatic time in the Sea Org starting from the age of 16, she tells the story of meeting her husband Marc there and how their love was the catalyst for her eventual escape. Throughout the conversation, Claire paints a grim picture of life in a secured Scientology compound as she rose to the top of David Miscavige's Religious Technology Center and the indignities she suffered along the way. Before You Go: Rachel explains how Scientology manipulates victimhood into a shameful failure of their followers, so as to not have to take responsibility for their abusive culture. She talks about the courage it takes to follow your instincts and fight against the Church's abuse despite personal harassment. More info on the Headley's lawsuit against Scientology here: https://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/defectors-claire-and-marc-headley-say-church-of-scientology-tried-to/1250163/ More info on Marc Headley's book here: http://blownforgood.com/ Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter Malia Michiko Gallegos!! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This week's guest, Spike Robinson was born in the wilds of New Jersey and raised in bustling, metropolitan Vermont, she began her educational career in literary criticism before deciding to go for broke (literally) and study music theory and composition. One completed degree and three years in a “ritual magick” cult later, she found a new life path educating others about coercive control, manipulative persuasion, and the many nefarious ways predatory people fool us into acting against our own best interests. She currently manages the YouTube channel of author Jon Atack and lives with her ever-patient husband and two budgerigars. Spike shares her fascinating and often dark story of enchantment, psychedelia, and "Crowley-Esque, ritual magik." Together Spike and Rachel explore the textbook scenarios that led her into the arms of a narcissistic and abusive cult leader. Spike also talks about how hearing from ex-Scientologists helped her walk away from her own dark and strange group and create a new life for herself protecting people from systems of control. Before You Go: Rachel reiterates how intelligence levels have no bearing on what makes one susceptible to cultic indoctrination, and warns of the dangers of sacrificial devotion explaining how it can be exploited by abusive group leaders. To hear our episodes with the ex-Scientologists Spike mentions and many more follow this link: https://soundcloud.com/indoctrinationshow/sets/scientology?si=13d5207bbbc14329b47fbe987f5eecb9 For more on Spike: Jon Atack, family, and friends YouTube channel run by Spike: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI4tcSMV2kEh3BooY_XFSYQ Spike’s own YouTube channel with her original music: https://www.youtube.com/user/spikeoramathon Spike’s blog with her artwork and writing: https://phoenyxrose.wordpress.com Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter Matt T! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This week we are proud to present a crossover episode with Dr. Clint Heacock, of the MindShift podcast. Dr. Heacock is an ex-evangelical pastor and Bible college teacher of over 20 years. After deconstructing his former Christian faith and leaving it behind more than a decade ago, he’s used his podcast platform to educate and help those who have left religion to rebuild their lives. In this first part of their 2 part conversation, Clint explains to Rachel the years-long process of questioning his faith that ultimately led him away from the Christian church. Dr. Heacock also breaks down the fundamentalist roots of evangelical Christianity and explains how it relates to today's religious right. Together, Rachel and Clint discuss the fear-based doctrines used in both religion and cults and the damage they can inflict on believers. Before You Go: Rachel goes in-depth into the fear-mongering tactics that some religious traditions use to control the behavior of their believers. She describes the paralyzing fear of divine retribution that some followers experience and how it can hinder their autonomy. Hear the second half of Clint and Rachel's conversation on the MindShift podcast by following the links below: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bonus-episode-how-religion-affects-our-mental-health/id1199559501?i=1000537766442 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3QqRiYn1TgpGiEgzQYWVUb?si=JDCp-salRR6Fp3wHYGyLVA&dl_branch=1 For more information on Dr. Clint Heacock and the MindShift podcast, check out his website here: https://mindshiftpodcast.co.uk/ Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter Elli Pripas! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! http://www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This week's guest, Marilyn Mayo, is the Research Fellow at the Anti-Defamation League’s (ADL) Center on Extremism. Marilyn is an expert on right-wing extremists in the United States, ranging from white supremacists to academic racists to anti-immigrant groups. She has been with the ADL for 24 years, having previously served as the Associate Director of Investigative Research. Marilyn shares her insights from decades of investigation on hate groups and extremism as a research fellow with the ADL. She breaks down the complex roots of extremist hate and unravels some of the difficult social issues that government must address in order to quell the many violent extremist movements currently threatening the United States. Rachel draws parallels between extremist hate groups and cultic high control groups, both in the recruitment tactics used as well as the potential for the violence these groups inherently hold. Marylin and Rachel go on to discuss deradicalization strategies and the important educational resources offered by the Anti-Defamation League’s (ADL) Center on Extremism. Before You Go: Rachel explains that despite how the ever-changing landscape of hate and extremism continues to morph into different ideologies, its root cause remains the same, that ugly side of human nature that we must all continue to fight against collectively. For more information as well as educational resources, visit the ADL website here: https://www.adl.org/ To stay connected with their work follow the group on social media: https://twitter.com/ADL https://www.facebook.com/anti.defamation.league/ https://www.instagram.com/adl_national/ Thanks to all of our Patreon supporters, we could not do it without you!! You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy