IndoctriNation

Jitarth Jadeja is a former QAnon follower and current moderator of a Reddit group with over 200K followers called QAnon Casualties. Residing in Sydney, Australia, Jitarth has been covered in many major news publications in the U.S. and beyond, providing important insight into the perplexing world of Q. Since leaving Qanon behind, Jitarth has become an invaluable resource not only to high-profile journalists but also to families who have lost loved ones to Qanon. As you'll hear, his charming vulnerability and quick wit have helped him to shine a light on the shadows of Qanon and the conspiratorial right. Jitarth shares with Rachel why he first became consumed with Qanon, explaining the ways in which it affected his familial relationships, specifically with his father who became a Q believer as well. Rachel discusses her experience dealing with the fallout of the Qanon movement. Together they talk through the consequences of Qanon's dangerous disinformation, lamenting the human cost of its voracious growth. Before You Go: Rachel explains the often innocuous reasons and even positive attributes that can cause people to seek community in cultic situations. Additionally, she offers insight on engaging with people whose natural desire for acceptance and status prevents them from thinking critically. Listen to Rachel and Jitarth's conversation on Conspirituality Podcast here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/65-long-haul-qanon-w-rachel-bernstein-jitarth-jadeja/id1515827446?i=1000532569599 Find Rachel's book "Now I Know: Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters Lisa Akers and Stef CLO!!! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Jon Sawyer was raised in two homes influenced by both high-demand religion and secular worldviews. Prior to his parent's divorce at the age of four, his family was involved with both Transcendental Meditation (TM) and Christian Science. Shortly after his parent's divorce, his mother took a secular route, while his father converted to Pentecostal and charismatic Christianity. While Jon's father sprinkled elements of TM and Christian Science into his childhood, his dad's newfound evangelical Christian faith fixated on the end of the world, divine healing, speaking in tongues, and the "prosperity gospel." When Jon was fifteen, he converted to Mormonism. From the age of fifteen to thirty-five, Jon was involved with various high-demand religious groups that were associated with both charismatic Christianity and Mormonism. As a teen who was deeply conflicted about his attraction to the same sex, Jon attended the now-defunct Spirit Life Bible College (SLBC)-associated with Roberts Liardon Ministries-in Orange County, CA. While at SLBC, Jon experienced multiple sessions of exorcism and conversion therapies that were aimed at "healing" his sexual identity. When Jon was twenty-six, he became involved with Sovereign Grace Churches: a group that began during the charismatic Jesus Movement of the 1970s and eventually adopted a neo-Calvinist theology that emphasized strict gender roles and courtship practices. Jon separated from organized religion six years ago, at the age of 35. Since that time, Jon has benefited from somatic therapy, completed both a BA and MA in education, and is currently a doctoral student and researcher at the University of Colorado Boulder. Partly due to the influence of his experiences with high-demand religious groups, Jon now studies the intersection of education policy and anti-discrimination law. In this second half of Jon's two-part conversation with Rachel, he shares some of his most traumatic religious experiences going through exorcisms and "conversion therapy" at Spirit Life Bible College. Rachel provides further background on "conversion therapy" outlining its dangerous and often hypocritical roots. Together Jon and Rachel unpack the damaging culture of homophobia in the church and offer hope for recovery to those who have been traumatized. Before You Go: Rachel breaks down the unnerving hubris of religious groups who aim to change the sexual or gender identity of others by forcing them to conform to their own rigid and intolerant beliefs. You can contact Jon here: jonesawyer@gmail.com Find Rachel's book "Now I Know: Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to all our Patreon supporters! We truly couldn't make the show without you! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Jon Sawyer was raised in two homes influenced by both high-demand religion and secular worldviews. Prior to his parent's divorce at the age of four, his family was involved with both Transcendental Meditation (TM) and Christian Science. Shortly after his parent's divorce, his mother took a secular route, while his father converted to Pentecostal and charismatic Christianity. While Jon's father sprinkled elements of TM and Christian Science into his childhood, his dad's newfound evangelical Christian faith fixated on the end of the world, divine healing, speaking in tongues, and the "prosperity gospel." When Jon was fifteen, he converted to Mormonism. From the age of fifteen to thirty-five, Jon was involved with various high-demand religious groups that were associated with both charismatic Christianity and Mormonism. As a teen who was deeply conflicted about his attraction to the same sex, Jon attended the now-defunct Spirit Life Bible College (SLBC)-associated with Roberts Liardon Ministries-in Orange County, CA. While at SLBC, Jon experienced multiple sessions of exorcism and conversion therapies that were aimed at "healing" his sexual identity. When Jon was twenty-six, he became involved with Sovereign Grace Churches: a group that began during the charismatic Jesus Movement of the 1970s and eventually adopted a neo-Calvinist theology that emphasized strict gender roles and courtship practices. Jon separated from organized religion six years ago, at the age of 35. Since that time, Jon has benefited from somatic therapy, completed both a BA and MA in education, and is currently a doctoral student and researcher at the University of Colorado Boulder. Partly due to the influence of his experiences with high-demand religious groups, Jon now studies the intersection of education policy and anti-discrimination law. In this first half of Jon's two-part conversation with Rachel, He shares an intimate portrait of his childhood as he was pulled in the many different and extreme religious directions his divorced parents took. Throughout the conversation, Rachel gives insights into the religious trauma Jon likely experienced as a child by being exposed to graphic demonic imagery. Jon explains how his varied and controlling religious upbringing caused him to internalize homophobia as he examined his own sexuality and place on the LGBTQ spectrum. Before You Go: Rachel warns about the dangers of parental alienation which often occurs in separated families, explaining how this can be exacerbated within families involved in high control groups and relationships. You can contact Jon here: jonesawyer@gmail.com Find Rachel's book "Now I Know, Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to all our Patreon supporters! We truly couldn't make the show without you! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Emily is a former member of C3 NYC where she endured three years of pastoral abuse. Her account @C3ChurchWatch on Instagram was created in June 2020 as an effort to stop the harassment she was experiencing. She did not think anyone but her pastor would notice it, but soon found herself with plenty of followers and supporters privately and publicly citing harm or abuse from C3 churches all over the world. Her church and the Philadelphia location responded by conducting a smear campaign, telling members to block the account, hunting down account supporters, and sending Emily a false legal threat that was rescinded when a journalist became involved. Following along with a larger movement, and with a prior background in cult recovery, Emily quickly saw the need for those exiting toxic evangelical spaces to understand what happened to them and where to go to safely process their experience. She operates her account today to document her own journey, gathers articles and investigations involving C3, holds space for those wanting to share their story publicly or privately, shares resources, helps people find appropriate therapy, and speaks with family/friends of current members. Emily provides some background on C3 Church Global, a charismatic movement founded in Sydney, Australia, with a community of over 500 churches worldwide. In addition to her insights on the mega-church culture in general, she shares her personal experience of pastoral abuse in the Philadelphia location of C3. Rachel and Emily discuss the red flags she noticed along the way as well as the self-doubt that prevented her from having the clarity of mind to see the group for what it really was. Emily shares with Rachel how she ultimately extricated herself from the church and came to victim advocacy work through her IG account. Before You Go: Rachel explains the importance of exploring the biases that may prevent you from noticing warning signs of high control groups. She points out how the optics of certain situations can be a distractionary element that clouds your perspective. Follow Emily's C3 account here: https://www.instagram.com/c3churchwatch/ More Info on C3 here: https://c3churchwatch.com/2012/03/10/macdougalls-testimony-of-pringles-early-beginnings/ Find Rachel's book "Now I Know, Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to all our new Patreon supporters: Nicole Kraft Marla Hendershot, Frank Morgan, Jennifer Atkinson, Sylvia Bernstein, and Tara S. To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Mark Potok is an internationally renowned expert on the American radical right, who, for 20 years helped lead the legendary Southern Poverty Law Center in exposing hate groups, right-wing terrorism, and the rapidly increasing infiltration of extremist ideas into the political mainstream. In that role, Potok faced numerous death threats from white supremacists and constant vilification by leaders of the far-right media — a remarkable measure of just how effective his work was. Potok has been described in one book on social justice activists as having “a reputation as the preeminent editorial commentator who follows the American radical right.” In 2018, a year after leaving SPLC, he joined the Centre for Analysis of the Radical Right as a Senior Fellow. As the director of the SPLC’s Intelligence Project and, later, Senior Fellow at the SPLC and Editor in Chief of its award-winning Intelligence Report investigative magazine, Potok was a key spokesman for the SPLC, a civil rights organization based in Alabama. He has testified before the U.S. Senate, the United Nations High Commission on Human Rights, the Helsinki Commission, and in other key venues. In this second half of Rachel's conversation with Mark, he shares more of his perspective on the past, present, and future of the radical right, delving into his decades of experience with the Southern Poverty Law Center. Rachel and Mark exchange their ideas about how and why people are drawn to extremist groups and explore the commonalities behind a variety of far-right hate groups. Together they discuss the possible steps of action both individually and societally that may help to quell the increase in political violence and hate crimes. Before You Go: Rachel explores the idea of hereditary hate, explaining how the impressionable nature of children makes them uniquely susceptible to indoctrination into hateful ideology. For more info on Mark's work visit: https://markpotok.net/ For more info on SPLC visit: https://www.splcenter.org/ For more info on CARR visit: https://www.radicalrightanalysis.com/ Hear Rachel's thought on the U.S. Capitol insurrection: youtu.be/9srCmRMoXnQ Thanks to all of our newest Patreon supporters! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating or review on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Mark Potok is an internationally renowned expert on the American radical right who, for 20 years, helped lead the legendary Southern Poverty Law Center in exposing hate groups, right-wing terrorism, and the rapidly increasing infiltration of extremist ideas into the political mainstream. In that role, Potok faced numerous death threats from white supremacists and constant vilification by leaders of the far-right media — a remarkable measure of just how effective his work was. Potok has been described in one book on social justice activists as having “a reputation as the preeminent editorial commentator who follows the American radical right.” In 2018, a year after leaving SPLC, he joined the Centre for Analysis of the Radical Right as a Senior Fellow. As the director of the SPLC’s Intelligence Project and, later, Senior Fellow at the SPLC and Editor in Chief of its award-winning Intelligence Report investigative magazine, Potok was a key spokesman for the SPLC, a civil rights organization based in Alabama. He has testified before the U.S. Senate, the United Nations High Commission on Human Rights, the Helsinki Commission, and in other key venues. In this first half of their two-part conversation, Mark shares with Rachel insights from his decades of work exposing dangerous extremist groups on the far right and beyond. Together they survey the current political landscape and offer expertise from their respective fields of study. Mark and Rachel both provide analysis relating to political movements of the past and look ahead to the worrisome political climate on the horizon. They go on to compare notes on the cultic tendencies of hate groups and far-right terrorist cells. Before You Go: Rachel reiterates the importance of learning from the lessons of history in order to seek out fundamental truths but notes taking action as equally important. Reminding us that even advanced civilizations are vulnerable to the folly of human nature. For more info on Mark's work visit: https://markpotok.net/ For more info on SPLC visit: https://www.splcenter.org/ For more info on CARR visit: https://www.radicalrightanalysis.com/ Here’s a link to Mark's booklet on conversion therapy, “Quacks: ‘Conversion Therapists,’ the Anti-LGBT Right, and the Demonization of Homosexuality”: https://www.splcenter.org/20160525/quacks-conversion-therapists-anti-lgbt-right-and-demonization-homosexuality Hear Rachel's thought on the U.S. Capitol insurrection: https://youtu.be/9srCmRMoXnQ Thanks to all of our newest Patreon supporters! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating or review on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Jacob is a socialist community organizer living in Philadelphia. He helps run the Community Action Relief Project (CARP), a mutual aid organization committed to sharing resources and redistributing wealth throughout the Kensington neighborhood and broader Philadelphia. In addition to hosting political reading groups and building relationships with neighborhood groups for CARP, his creative pursuits include poetry, comedy, and ASMR videos. Jacob joined Rachel not to denounce or advocate for any broad political ideology but to warn potential recruits to the specific group he was involved with (PSL) by sharing his own personal experience. In this second part of Rachel's two-part conversation with Jacob, he shares the experience that led him to see clearly the group's manipulative and cult-like tactics of control. Jacob details how the PSL's national leadership conspired to cover up the sexual assault of his friend by an influential member of the organization. Throughout Jacob's story, Rachel compares the manipulations and reactionary defensiveness of PSL to that of cults who take aggressive and retaliatory action towards all accusers and critics. Before You Go: Rachel examines the fraudulent nature of internal investigations within high control groups by relating a personal story about dealing with a disingenuous property manager. She advises how to see through the theater of begrudging leaders feigning attempts at problem resolution. Learn more about Jacob's experience and the experiences of many other former PSL members here: medium.com/@jacobscb/documenta…ior-in-6afa65b8072e Find Rachel's book "Now I Know, Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter Terry Horne! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Jacob is a socialist community organizer living in Philadelphia. He helps run the Community Action Relief Project (CARP), a mutual aid organization committed to sharing resources and redistributing wealth throughout the Kensington neighborhood and broader Philadelphia. In addition to hosting political reading groups and building relationships with neighborhood groups for CARP, his creative pursuits include poetry, comedy, and ASMR videos. Jacob joined Rachel not to denounce or advocate for any broad political ideology but to warn potential recruits to the specific group he was involved with (PSL) by sharing his own personal experience. In this first part of Rachel's two-part conversation with Jacob, he explains how he first got involved with The Party for Socialism and Liberation, a high control group in the world of political organizing. Jacob breaks down some of the cult-like tactics of control that were commonplace in his branch. Rachel offers her insights into the groups' use of manipulative language and pressure to overachieve to the point of exhaustion. They discuss in detail the restrictive nature of the organization, as well as its intolerance of dissent both in public and private. Before You Go: Rachel emphasizes the point Jacob made about questioning why so many people involved with his group left on bad terms. She explains how you can examine the nature of an organization by noting its reaction to your dissenting opinions or refusal of demands. Learn more about Jacob's experience and the experiences of many other former PSL members here: https://medium.com/@jacobscb/documentation-of-corruption-institutional-bigotry-and-high-control-group-cult-like-behavior-in-6afa65b8072e Find Rachel's book "Now I Know, Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: https://www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel-Bernstein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter Charlotte! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Anna grew up in a fundamentalist Christian family as part of the Quiverfull movement. She and her 6 siblings were not allowed to attend school and were very isolated from the outside world. Everything about her childhood was strictly controlled, from the clothes she wore to the media she had access to. She was expected to teach herself from primarily religious texts as well as teaching and caring for the younger children. Her future was laid out for her as a submissive wife and mother to many children. She left at 19 with help from family. Starting life in a very unfamiliar world with little education was daunting but also thrilling. 7 years later she's still sifting through memories, she makes videos on TikTok (@spookypatootie) recounting her experiences and has found that many other folks grew up in similar circumstances. Many kids are undoubtedly still in that situation and Anna hopes she can raise awareness and play a part in helping others. In this second half of Anna's conversation with Rachel, she reflects on the erosion of the relationship with her mother and explains how her homophobic beliefs became the catalyst for Anna's departure from home and the Quiverfull movement. Anna shares some of the many difficulties she experienced trying to find her way in a world she was inherently ill-equipped to navigate. Throughout the discussion, Rachel points out some of the common struggles of those who were not raised with the basic life skills the general population takes for granted. Before You Go: Rachel offers some advice on defining "normalcy" for people leaving restrictive groups for the first time and explains how others can be an invaluable resource to those struggling to thrive in an unfamiliar world. Find Anna's amazing work on TIK TOK here: https://www.tiktok.com/@spookypatootie? Find Rachel's book "Now I Know, Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: https://www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel-Bernstein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter Bill Lyerly! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

CONTENT WARNING: Depictions of Sexual Assault Anna grew up in a fundamentalist Christian family as part of the Quiverfull movement. She and her 6 siblings were not allowed to attend school and were very isolated from the outside world. Everything about her childhood was strictly controlled, from the clothes she wore to the media she had access to. She was expected to teach herself from primarily religious texts as well as teaching and caring for the younger children. Her future was laid out for her as a submissive wife and mother to many children. She left at 19 with help from family. Starting life in a very unfamiliar world with little education was daunting but also thrilling. 7 years later she's still sifting through memories, she makes videos on TikTok (spookypatootie) recounting her experiences and has found that many other folks grew up in similar circumstances. Many kids are undoubtedly still in that situation and Anna hopes she can raise awareness and play a part in helping others. Anna provides some background on the Christian movement Quiverfull, a theological position held by some conservative Christian couples who belong to Evangelical denominations that see large families as blessings from God. She explains some of the neglectful practices her parents employed led by their extreme interpretation of biblical texts. Anna shares with Rachel some of her deepest vulnerabilities from childhood and how she struggled to deal with them as an adult. Throughout the conversation, Rachel points out some of the commonalities in adults who have experienced religious-based parental neglect as children. Before You Go: Rachel addresses the struggle that children who grow up isolated by religion experience trying to fit in with peers. She explains how simply extending a gesture of friendship can be revelatory to those children who are inherently ostracized because of their parent's religious beliefs. Find Anna's amazing work on TIK TOK here: https://www.tiktok.com/@spookypatootie Find Rachel's book "Now I Know, Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: https://www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel-Bernstein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter "BadBibleStiches"! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy