Positive Disintegration

In episode 25, Chris and Emma were joined by Nth Bar-Fields and Joi Lin. This fascinating and fun discussion was too long for one episode, so we’ve split it into two for your listening enjoyment!Nth is a co-founder of Elysian Trust, and Joi is a doctoral student in Gifted Education Leadership at the University of Denver. Chris joined Nth and Joi in March 2022 for a panel session called Experiences Being Highly and Profoundly Gifted at the DU Gifted Education Policy Symposium and Conference. This episode is a product of that collaboration, and covers some of the same ground.We talked about what it means to be profoundly gifted (PG), which we defined as the 99.9th percentile of intelligence. Joi and Nth introduced themselves and shared their PG journeys, and talked about the challenges involved in this difference. We also discussed breaking socialization and transcending boundaries as outliers, including what that means for gender identity and gender differences. Part one concludes with a discussion of the various types of intuition. We discuss how intuitive thinking applies to being gifted and how this type of thinking can lead to challenges and impostor syndrome.Make sure you join us again for part two of this conversation!Links for this episodeElysian TrustExperiences Being HG/PG Panel at DU’s 2022 GEPSCMensaDavidson InstituteConnect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

Content warning: This episode includes sensitive topics such as depression, intrusive mental imagery, and suicidal ideation. Please also note that our guest was known as Lance at the time of recording, but later changed their name to Seph.In episode 24, Chris and Emma were joined by Seph Johnson (recorded as Lance), a college student from Colorado with a deep interest in Dąbrowski’s theory of positive disintegration. Chris first met Seph in 2019, and their conversations over the years were rich with insight, humor, and a shared passion for the inner life.We explored the challenges of imaginational overexcitability, including the experience of intrusive thoughts and vivid mental imagery. Seph spoke candidly about living with depression and intense emotional fluctuations, and the process of questioning whether these patterns reflected bipolar disorder. They also described the gifts of imagination—how it can be harnessed for mental rehearsal, creativity, and personal growth.Seph shared how discovering the theory helped them engage in intentional self-development through autopsychotherapy and self-education. Their reflections on the journey toward authenticity—peeling back layers, facing oneself honestly, and embracing difference—were both moving and wise.They also spoke about growing up in a rural area while coming to terms with being gay, and the loneliness and courage that accompanied that realization. Seph offered heartfelt advice for other young people navigating similar paths: seek true peers, honor your inner world, and trust that your differences are meaningful.Update: We are devastated to share that Seph passed away on March 29, 2025. They were a remarkable soul whose presence touched many. [Click here to read their obituary.]Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 23, Chris and Emma were joined by psychologist Jennifer Harvey Sallin, founder of InterGifted, a worldwide community and support organization for gifted adults. This conversation is a celebration of gifted diversity in adulthood! We talked about what giftedness can look like in adults, how it manifests, and the great range of diversity within giftedness. Jen shared her model of giftedness with us, which describes the areas of giftedness, and shows how everyone’s ‘gifted profile’ can look different. What is success, and what does it mean in today's commercial context? Jen described being a generalist or “multipotentialite,” and going against the normal expectations society might have for gifted people and their careers. We discussed the beauty of doing things that bring meaning to you and trying many things in life, as opposed to being a “specialist” or trying to conform to what others think success should mean. We addressed considerations for therapists, clinicians, and coaches when working with the gifted. Jen shared the story of creating InterGifted and filling the need for an international community in this population. She is one of the few people in the world who provide training for clinicians and coaches working with the gifted, and we talked about that work as well. Resources mentioned in this episodeInterGifted websiteRediscovering Yourself (Jen’s website)Gifted Psychology 101 Daniels & Piechowski’s book Living With IntensityHigh, Exceptional, and Profound Giftedness (Chris mentioned this link around the 11-minute mark)Chris joined Jen on her podcast Conversations on Gifted TraumaConnect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 22, Chris and Emma talked with Bob Yamtich, a coach who uses Nonviolent Communication to build poise, joy, self-connection, and choice. We talked about Nonviolent Communication with Bob, as well as empathy, needs, and strategies. We discussed shared connection and living in a shared reality, as well as connection requests. This is a primer in NVC with someone who lives it and uses it as a coach. Bob and Chris worked through an issue she had on social media and how she might have handled it differently. We talked about having the option, but not the obligation, to engage in a restorative process. We had an open and vulnerable discussion about how to navigate challenging interactions.Resources from this episodeBob’s websiteBob on TwitterMarshall B. Rosenberg’s book Nonviolent Communication (Indiebound)Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 21, Chris and Emma were joined by Marc Smolowitz, a director, producer, and executive producer who is currently in post-production on THE G WORD, a feature-length documentary that aims to be the most comprehensive film ever made on the topics of gifted, talented, and neurodiverse education across the United States. We were happy to talk with Marc and help celebrate THE G WORD's second annual Gifted / Talented / Neurodiverse Awareness Week. GTN Awareness Week included a great selection of panels and programming from October 24-28, 2022. In our discussion, we covered a range of topics, including storytelling, intensity, intersectionality, trauma, empowerment, and #GiftedJoy. Marc told us about THE G WORD and shared his history and experiences in the context of positive disintegration and giftedness. Chris is a part of THE G WORD’s Global Partnership Network, and we encourage others to consider supporting the film and its mission. Links from this episodeGTN Awareness WeekTHE G WORD websiteTHE G WORD’s Global Partnership NetworkConnect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

This episode wraps up year one of our podcast! It has been a privilege to share Dabrowski’s theory with our audience, and we want to thank you for listening and becoming a part of our community. In episode 20, Chris and Emma explored the values that guide the Dabrowski Center, a new nonprofit organization dedicated to the advancement of the Theory of Positive Disintegration through advocacy, education, and innovation. The values discussed in this episode include: Truthful—We strive for accurate representation and preservation of Dabrowski’s work and to deal with people in a straightforward and kind manner.Authentic—We will be authentic in our speech and actions and in our desire to promote mental health and help others. We maintain this desire to help others as our primary focus.Inclusive—We are inclusive of everyone and affirming of their identity and personal experiences. We stand against bigotry, harassment, and discrimination.Kindness—We strive to act in a way that seeks to do no harm. We will act with altruism, humanity, and promote the good of others.Connecting—We aim to bring people together and forge a community based on respect and friendship.Honorable—We act in an ethical manner, with integrity, fairness, and transparency, and speak up against those who do not.Supportive—We support people in their educational journey, making information accessible and available, and providing ways for people to seek guidance and help.Encouraging—We will encourage people who seek new ways to explore, present, research, and work with the theory of positive disintegration.Bold—We will be bold, brave, and innovative in our mission to bring the theory of positive disintegration to the world in new ways.Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 19, Chris and Emma were joined by Stephanie Tolan, an author and long-time advocate and champion of the gifted. This episode was inspired by Stef’s chapter in the book Living with Intensity called “What We May Be: What Dabrowski’s Work Can Do for Gifted Adults.” We’ve had enough feedback from listeners to know that we needed a deeper dive into the theory’s levels of development and that we needed to push back a little on the established dogma. We’re grateful for Stef’s willingness to join us for this conversation about Dąbrowski’s levels. Stef talked with us about her realization that there are more people at the highest level of development than Dąbrowski acknowledged in his writing. We talked about how her beliefs about consciousness and higher-level development have changed over the years. We discussed exemplars, reincarnation, and the limited understanding that we currently have about the levels of development and their many permutations. Resources mentioned during this episode:Stephanie S. Tolan’s websiteLiving with Intensity by Daniels & Piechowski (from Gifted Unlimited, LLC)Lives of Positive Disintegration by Michael M. Piechowski (links to ResearchGate)A Hobbit, a Wardrobe, and a Great War by Joseph LocontePeace Pilgrim websitePeace Pilgrim’s works are available for download in multiple languages for free.Support the podcastIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review.Thank you for listening to Positive Disintegration. Please, feel free to share! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 18, Chris and Emma were joined by Rachel Fell, a coach, consultant, educator, and guide working with creatives, thinkers, leaders, and groups to create perspective change that achieves real-world results. The focus of this episode was on disintegration, giftedness, neurodivergence, and trauma. We discussed nervous system differences, definitions of trauma, and the importance of embracing the process. When does sensitivity become fragility? How do you learn to respect and embrace your intensities? How do you recognize your stress and sensitivity as it starts to show itself in your body? How can you rebuild neural pathways that have been laid down in your childhood? How can inner reflection help you develop empathy and, in turn, make the world a better place?Rachel talks about developing inner authority, reclaiming ‘the seat’ of your authority from the external, and bringing it back to the internal. The process of developing inner authority, and breaking down external ideas and values, mirrors Dąbrowski’s theory of positive disintegration—breaking down external socialization, reclaiming your authenticity through inner reflection, and establishing your own hierarchy of values.Resources mentioned in this episodeRachel’s websiteRachel on InstagramSoulSpark Learning Empowerment Series 2020 (on YouTube)Five Benefits of Creativity in Positive Disintegration (Emma’s finger-painting video)Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 17, Chris and Emma were joined by Elizabeth Mika, a Polish-born psychologist and expert on the Theory of Positive Disintegration. Elizabeth shares how she first became interested in Dabrowski’s theory as a teenager in Poland, how it inspired her to go into the field of psychology, and her journey into working with the theory once she immigrated to America.Our conversation covered a wide range of topics, focused on the ‘lows and highs’ of Dabrowski’s levels, from the sub-levels of unilevel integration to the Fourth Factor and drive for self-transcendence. We talk about the dangers of narcissism and its various forms, the role of positive maladjustment, and how self-reflection and inner transformation is the first step in making the world a better place.“We need to look within before we start changing the world. The greatest gift we can give to the world is our transformed self.”This is the image we discussed with Elizabeth around minute 31 from her 2018 Dabrowski Congress slideshow. See the resource list below to download her slides. “Self-education is about personality development on the ever higher levels. Its highest goals is in the natural dimension the fullness of humanity, and in the supranatural dimension – becoming God-like. Self-education should go hand in hand with introspection, and those two activities should become one effort, lasting a lifetime, to come close to the ideal.” Resources Mentioned in this EpisodeTyranny as a Triumph of Narcissism (article on Medium)On Primary Integration, Psychopathy and the Average Person (article on LinkedIn)Sudden Dynamic Insight: Moving from Conflict to Peace (PDF)What Disintegrates? (PDF)Pathocracy and Andrzej Łobaczewski (by Dr. Steve Taylor for Psychology Today )Follow Elizabeth on Twitter*A transcript of this episode is available on our website. Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 16, Chris and Emma were joined by Dr. Shelagh Gallagher, for a discussion of overexcitability (OE) and openness to experience (OtE), based on her paper which compares the two frameworks. Shelagh is an independent consultant in gifted education and President of the National Association for Gifted Children. We discussed the controversy in the field of gifted education about OE and OtE, and the value both frameworks can provide in informing us about the gifted student experience in education. We talked about the impact and difference having multiple OEs can have in a person’s life, and Shelagh shared insights from her research and pointed out directions for future work in gifted populations. Resources mentioned in this episodeOpenness to Experience and Overexcitabilities in a Sample of Highly Gifted Middle School Students by Shelagh GallagherBuilding Bridges: Research on Gifted Children's Personalities from Three Psychological Theories by Shelagh Gallagher24-item Overexcitability QuestionnaireA Comparison of the Concept of Overexcitabilities with Measures of Creativity and School Achievement in Sixth-Grade Students by Shelagh GallagherCreative Personality Characteristics and Dimensions of Mental Functioning in Gifted Adolescents by Shirley SchieverShelagh’s websiteNAGC Videos from the 15th International Dabrowski Congress:Full Dabrowski Congress 2022 YouTube PlaylistShelagh’s keynote (YouTube)* A transcript of this episode is available on the Dabrowski Center website.Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe