Positive Disintegration

In episode 28, Chris and Emma were joined by Kate Arms, JD, PCC, for a discussion on what positive disintegration looks like in organizations and workplaces. How are organizational dynamics similar to positive disintegration in individuals? Kate’s approach to her work is one where the business itself, or the “system,” is considered the coaching client, and she observes not only the individuals but also the interactions between them. She feels that dynamisms show up as much in the interactions, and leadership, as in the individuals. A business, start-up, or organization can move through the levels of development—from the first grumblings of discontent in the workforce to a place of shared accountability and vision—and can transform. They are also prone to their own three factors; the start-up dream of the founders, the external pressures (like customers and market forces), and the emerging “third factor” of a growing workforce culture and shared vision.Kate shared tips for employees and employers for dealing with positive disintegration. We discussed the difficulty of being overexcitable and working in organizations where the individual is forced to conform and toe the line. We also talked about positive maladjustment, and the good that can come when a business or non-profit tackles social issues and works to create change in the world. Links from this episodeSignal Fire Coaching (Kate’s website)Neurodiversity Coaching AcademyDr. Eric Vorm’s presentation from the 2022 Dabrowski CongressEpisode 6 on Autopsychotherapy and Self-Leadership Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 27, Chris and Emma were joined by Dr. Tracy Winter, an ICF-credentialed coach with a PhD in Human Development. In her coaching practice, she works with neurodivergent adults and specializes in the gifted / 2e population. We talked about Tracy’s dissertation research on gifted adults “being seen,” where most of her participants fell into two groups: they were not seen as gifted, or they were mis-seen in a way that was not aligned with their self-perceptions. We discuss the importance of “mirroring”—finding yourself reflected in others—and the loneliness that can happen when we are not seen for our authentic selves, even when we have a support network around us. Tracy holds up a “flat mirror” with clients to help them see themselves accurately, and we talk about how devastating it feels when neurodivergent and gifted people only see ourselves in a distorted “funhouse mirror” if they cannot find people like themselves to connect with.Tracy talks to us about overexcitability in neurodivergent clients, and what it’s like to work with the Theory of Positive Disintegration in her practice. She shares other developmental models she finds helpful, including Kegan’s Subject-Object Theory of Development and Cook-Greuter's Constructive Developmental Theory in her work, along with classic theorists such as Erikson. We talk about the difference between a coach and a therapist, what you can expect from an ICF-certified coach, and the importance of an authentic relationships in both clinical work and coaching. We also discuss the activation of dynamisms in clients, and the benefits and pitfalls of nudging someone into disintegration, and the importance of “meeting people where they are” when talking about experiencing a disintegration—whether that be with a client or with a loved one in a relationship.Links from this episode:Nerd Coach (Tracy’s Website)Neurodiversity Coaching Academy Download Tracy’s dissertation from the Media tab of her websiteTracy on LinkedInTracy’s episode on Unleash MondayEmma’s Triangle of Loneliness videoChris’s paper on the Inner Experience of Giftedness [PDF download]SENGConnect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 26, we continued the conversation with Nth Bar-Fields and Joi Lin in the second half of our two-part series about their experiences as profoundly gifted individuals.In Part 2, we talked about health and mental health issues, including experiences with substances and addiction. We discussed how being neurodivergent can also lead to diversity in the realm of physical health and how medical providers may not be equipped to deal with our needs.We mentioned the overexcitabilities and how they manifest in our lives. We acknowledged that these intense experiences and curiosity might lead us to want to explore things in both the inner and outer worlds.We also talked about saving the world. How we can do our own small part locally, playing to our strengths, and the value of collaborating with other gifted people to make a real difference within our communities and globally. Links from this episodeElysian TrustChris’s episode with Jen Harvey Sallin on Conversations on Gifted Trauma was mentioned because that episode was recorded the morning of the episodes with Nth and Joi. Interested in joining Elysian Trust? The email address is info@elysiantrust.org Click here to find out more about the six Elysian Trust member societies.Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 25, Chris and Emma were joined by Nth Bar-Fields and Joi Lin. This fascinating and fun discussion was too long for one episode, so we’ve split it into two for your listening enjoyment!Nth is a co-founder of Elysian Trust, and Joi is a doctoral student in Gifted Education Leadership at the University of Denver. Chris joined Nth and Joi in March 2022 for a panel session called Experiences Being Highly and Profoundly Gifted at the DU Gifted Education Policy Symposium and Conference. This episode is a product of that collaboration, and covers some of the same ground.We talked about what it means to be profoundly gifted (PG), which we defined as the 99.9th percentile of intelligence. Joi and Nth introduced themselves and shared their PG journeys, and talked about the challenges involved in this difference. We also discussed breaking socialization and transcending boundaries as outliers, including what that means for gender identity and gender differences. Part one concludes with a discussion of the various types of intuition. We discuss how intuitive thinking applies to being gifted and how this type of thinking can lead to challenges and impostor syndrome.Make sure you join us again for part two of this conversation!Links for this episodeElysian TrustExperiences Being HG/PG Panel at DU’s 2022 GEPSCMensaDavidson InstituteConnect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

Content warning: This episode includes sensitive topics such as depression, intrusive mental imagery, and suicidal ideation. Please also note that our guest was known as Lance at the time of recording, but later changed their name to Seph.In episode 24, Chris and Emma were joined by Seph Johnson (recorded as Lance), a college student from Colorado with a deep interest in Dąbrowski’s theory of positive disintegration. Chris first met Seph in 2019, and their conversations over the years were rich with insight, humor, and a shared passion for the inner life.We explored the challenges of imaginational overexcitability, including the experience of intrusive thoughts and vivid mental imagery. Seph spoke candidly about living with depression and intense emotional fluctuations, and the process of questioning whether these patterns reflected bipolar disorder. They also described the gifts of imagination—how it can be harnessed for mental rehearsal, creativity, and personal growth.Seph shared how discovering the theory helped them engage in intentional self-development through autopsychotherapy and self-education. Their reflections on the journey toward authenticity—peeling back layers, facing oneself honestly, and embracing difference—were both moving and wise.They also spoke about growing up in a rural area while coming to terms with being gay, and the loneliness and courage that accompanied that realization. Seph offered heartfelt advice for other young people navigating similar paths: seek true peers, honor your inner world, and trust that your differences are meaningful.Update: We are devastated to share that Seph passed away on March 29, 2025. They were a remarkable soul whose presence touched many. [Click here to read their obituary.]Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 23, Chris and Emma were joined by psychologist Jennifer Harvey Sallin, founder of InterGifted, a worldwide community and support organization for gifted adults. This conversation is a celebration of gifted diversity in adulthood! We talked about what giftedness can look like in adults, how it manifests, and the great range of diversity within giftedness. Jen shared her model of giftedness with us, which describes the areas of giftedness, and shows how everyone’s ‘gifted profile’ can look different. What is success, and what does it mean in today's commercial context? Jen described being a generalist or “multipotentialite,” and going against the normal expectations society might have for gifted people and their careers. We discussed the beauty of doing things that bring meaning to you and trying many things in life, as opposed to being a “specialist” or trying to conform to what others think success should mean. We addressed considerations for therapists, clinicians, and coaches when working with the gifted. Jen shared the story of creating InterGifted and filling the need for an international community in this population. She is one of the few people in the world who provide training for clinicians and coaches working with the gifted, and we talked about that work as well. Resources mentioned in this episodeInterGifted websiteRediscovering Yourself (Jen’s website)Gifted Psychology 101 Daniels & Piechowski’s book Living With IntensityHigh, Exceptional, and Profound Giftedness (Chris mentioned this link around the 11-minute mark)Chris joined Jen on her podcast Conversations on Gifted TraumaConnect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 22, Chris and Emma talked with Bob Yamtich, a coach who uses Nonviolent Communication to build poise, joy, self-connection, and choice. We talked about Nonviolent Communication with Bob, as well as empathy, needs, and strategies. We discussed shared connection and living in a shared reality, as well as connection requests. This is a primer in NVC with someone who lives it and uses it as a coach. Bob and Chris worked through an issue she had on social media and how she might have handled it differently. We talked about having the option, but not the obligation, to engage in a restorative process. We had an open and vulnerable discussion about how to navigate challenging interactions.Resources from this episodeBob’s websiteBob on TwitterMarshall B. Rosenberg’s book Nonviolent Communication (Indiebound)Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 21, Chris and Emma were joined by Marc Smolowitz, a director, producer, and executive producer who is currently in post-production on THE G WORD, a feature-length documentary that aims to be the most comprehensive film ever made on the topics of gifted, talented, and neurodiverse education across the United States. We were happy to talk with Marc and help celebrate THE G WORD's second annual Gifted / Talented / Neurodiverse Awareness Week. GTN Awareness Week included a great selection of panels and programming from October 24-28, 2022. In our discussion, we covered a range of topics, including storytelling, intensity, intersectionality, trauma, empowerment, and #GiftedJoy. Marc told us about THE G WORD and shared his history and experiences in the context of positive disintegration and giftedness. Chris is a part of THE G WORD’s Global Partnership Network, and we encourage others to consider supporting the film and its mission. Links from this episodeGTN Awareness WeekTHE G WORD websiteTHE G WORD’s Global Partnership NetworkConnect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

This episode wraps up year one of our podcast! It has been a privilege to share Dabrowski’s theory with our audience, and we want to thank you for listening and becoming a part of our community. In episode 20, Chris and Emma explored the values that guide the Dabrowski Center, a new nonprofit organization dedicated to the advancement of the Theory of Positive Disintegration through advocacy, education, and innovation. The values discussed in this episode include: Truthful—We strive for accurate representation and preservation of Dabrowski’s work and to deal with people in a straightforward and kind manner.Authentic—We will be authentic in our speech and actions and in our desire to promote mental health and help others. We maintain this desire to help others as our primary focus.Inclusive—We are inclusive of everyone and affirming of their identity and personal experiences. We stand against bigotry, harassment, and discrimination.Kindness—We strive to act in a way that seeks to do no harm. We will act with altruism, humanity, and promote the good of others.Connecting—We aim to bring people together and forge a community based on respect and friendship.Honorable—We act in an ethical manner, with integrity, fairness, and transparency, and speak up against those who do not.Supportive—We support people in their educational journey, making information accessible and available, and providing ways for people to seek guidance and help.Encouraging—We will encourage people who seek new ways to explore, present, research, and work with the theory of positive disintegration.Bold—We will be bold, brave, and innovative in our mission to bring the theory of positive disintegration to the world in new ways.Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 19, Chris and Emma were joined by Stephanie Tolan, an author and long-time advocate and champion of the gifted. This episode was inspired by Stef’s chapter in the book Living with Intensity called “What We May Be: What Dabrowski’s Work Can Do for Gifted Adults.” We’ve had enough feedback from listeners to know that we needed a deeper dive into the theory’s levels of development and that we needed to push back a little on the established dogma. We’re grateful for Stef’s willingness to join us for this conversation about Dąbrowski’s levels. Stef talked with us about her realization that there are more people at the highest level of development than Dąbrowski acknowledged in his writing. We talked about how her beliefs about consciousness and higher-level development have changed over the years. We discussed exemplars, reincarnation, and the limited understanding that we currently have about the levels of development and their many permutations. Resources mentioned during this episode:Stephanie S. Tolan’s websiteLiving with Intensity by Daniels & Piechowski (from Gifted Unlimited, LLC)Lives of Positive Disintegration by Michael M. Piechowski (links to ResearchGate)A Hobbit, a Wardrobe, and a Great War by Joseph LocontePeace Pilgrim websitePeace Pilgrim’s works are available for download in multiple languages for free.Support the podcastIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review.Thank you for listening to Positive Disintegration. Please, feel free to share! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe