
Inner Life, Talks and Thoughts
Reflections from Mark Vernon on soulful matters including spirituality and psychotherapy, science and religion, consciousness and the divine. For more on see www.markvernon.com
Latest episodes

Feb 15, 2024 • 8min
Practicing paradise, or refusing wretchedness in Lent
Western liturgies are obsessed with sin. "There is no health in us", or words to that effect, begin and end most services, particularly in Lent.Jesus's wilderness experience was actually about something else - practicing paradise, to use to the phrase of Douglas Christie.It's a time to reorientate attention, not wallow in guilt and re-embed shame. The kingdom is near. Eyes that see, ears that hear, can awaken.

Jan 26, 2024 • 32min
The Speed of Gravity. A conversation with Rupert Sheldrake
Isaac Newton is best known for his theory of gravity. And yet, the great scientist also insisted: "ye cause of gravity is what I do not pretend to know.” In other words, notions like gravity, and force in general, are deeply mysterious phenomena. In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon ask just what gravity might be. The conversation begins with a feature of gravity that is typically overlooked by physicists, namely that gravity has a speed which is far faster than the speed of light. They consider how gravity might be linked to the notion of levity, a link that can be renewed again. Newton himself was inclined to regard gravity as the divine will in the cosmos and was also influenced by the belief in daemons, particularly the entity called Eros or love. These are go-betweens in the universe, in the case of Eros, attracting all things and securing the many as a whole. Panpsychism and final causes are other themes that arise. Contemplating the mysteries of modern science, often hidden in plain sight, leads naturally to deeply meaningful considerations about the nature of the world in which we live.The paper Rupert mentioned, The Speed of Gravity, can be found here - https://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Research/TheSpeedofGravity-WhattheExperimentsSay.htmFor more conversations between us seehttps://www.sheldrake.org/audios/sheldrake-vernon-dialogueshttp://www.markvernon.com/talks

Jan 25, 2024 • 42min
How rituals of love can aid death and dying. A conversation with Madeleine Pennington
The rituals around death and dying are changing in the UK and across the developed world. Medical care advances, which is for the good, though can mean to a loss of other kinds of wisdom about this facet of life. People’s beliefs and convictions about death are also in a state of flux.The think tank, Theos, has extensively researched this changing landscape, so I was very glad to speak with Madeleine Pennington from Theos about their discoveries, particularly from the perspective of design. This conversation is one of several I am having looking at how designers can foster love in human affairs, personal and social.We discussed the turning away from the ritualisation of death and its effects, the power of rituals to raise aspects of human experience to awareness, and how the grieving process and holding periods of silence can be aided by design.For more on the work of Theos see - https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk Madeleine Pennington has written here too - https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/research/2023/11/27/love-grief-and-hope-emotional-responses-to-death-and-dying-in-the-uk

Jan 22, 2024 • 1h 4min
Nondualism & enchantment, acting & UFOs (Rupert Spira & Meister Eckhart too). Talk with Jamie Robson
A conversation with actor, Jamie Robson, whom I met through the work of Rupert Spira.00:00 Meeting through Rupert Spira03:26 Nondualism and Christian mysticism06:02 Nondualism and acting15:00 Being and doing19:40 Detachment and Meister Eckhart26:48 Two modes of perception in Iain McGilchrist and others32:43 Double vision and a re-enchanted world37:30 UFOs and levitation as cases49:45 Everyday re-enchantment52:07 British Weird Wave film59:33 Cultural shifts?

Jan 18, 2024 • 23min
Love at the meeting of cultures. A conversation with Chine McDonald
Born in Nigeria and raised in the UK since the age of 4, Chine McDonald is well placed to explore love in different cultural contexts, and what happens when differences meet.We talked about how differences show up particularly in relation to the practicalities of loving, from house design to how people talk at funerals, as well as wider questions such as images of God and the critiquing and idealising of different traditions.Our conversation is one of many I'm conducting as part of a project looking at how love can be fostered by design, funded by the Fetzer Institute.Chine is Director of the think tank Theos, having previously worked at Christian Aid and as a journalist. She is the author of God is Not a White Man: and other revelations, and regularly contributes to programmes on the radio. She studied Theology and Religious Studies at Cambridge University. For more on Chine - https://www.chinemcdonald.com/For more on Mark - https://www.markvernon.com/

Dec 20, 2023 • 36min
Humanity’s role in nature. Are we more than just a problem? A conversation with Rupert Sheldrake
Environmental degradation caused by technological progress is in the news almost everyday. So can any sense be made of an ancient intuition that human beings are not just part of nature but have a distinctive and positive role to play in nature? In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon discuss issues from the significance of consciousness to cosmic emergence in order to explore a vision of humanity in nature that goes well beyond our life being the meaningless byproduct of random processes. Humanity contributes to the diversification and beautification of the natural world, even as monocrops undermine that enrichment, too. Alternatively, religious traditions add a layer of meaning to natural processes that science alone can’t provide, from expressing divine creativity to returning that blessing in the praising of God. Panpsychism, strong emergence and Charles Darwin’s appreciation of the excessiveness of nature are other themes in the conversation, making a case for humanity’s place as participant in the remarkable abundance that surrounds us.For more conversations between Rupert and Mark see https://www.sheldrake.org/audios/sheldrake-vernon-dialoguesand http://www.markvernon.com/talks

Dec 19, 2023 • 57min
On the Incarnation or the real meaning of Christmas. Conversation with Russell Jefford & Mark Vernon
Christmas risks losing its meaning not only because of the commercial frenzy but because of the way it is talked about in churches.In this conversation, Russell Jefford talks about his discovery of the understanding of the incarnation conveyed in the writings of the early church fathers. They were unknown to him as an evangelical Christian and have refreshed his love of Christianity now.Together with Mark Vernon, they consider the iconography of the nativity. Why is Jesus born in a cave? Is that a coffin rather than a manger? They consider phrases of three key figues in particular:St Nazianzus "He who Is, comes into being, and the uncreated is created" (Oration 38.13)St Irenaeus "He sanctified every age by the resemblance we have with him" (Against Heresies 2.22.4)St Athanasius "He became man that we might become God" (On the Incarnation 54)The humanification of God enables the deification of humanity. Salvation is thought of as recapitulation, the divine sanctifying humanity through the various stages of life. The work of atonement is the work of incarnation, as both are manifestations of God, grabbing our attention as to our true nature through the life of the body. For more on Russell’s work and teaching days see https://ordinarytheology.com/For more on Mark’s work see https://www.markvernon.com/

Dec 9, 2023 • 43min
Loving and knowing in indigenous ways of life. A conversation with Melissa Nelson
“A worldview that understands indigeneity is a paradigm of regeneration, a worldview rooted in enduring values in what we call our original instructions, common themes of reciprocity, of gratitude, of responsibility, of generosity, of forgiveness, of humility, of courage, of sacrifice, and of course love. But these values are not just words, we need to live them.” Melissa NelsonIn this conversation with Melissa, we explore various facets of what she summarises in the quote above. The original instructions of indigenous knowledge are rooted in a reciprocal and relational way of being in the world, an integration of knowing and loving. The creatures of the world, with the landscape and sky, are living records preserved in oral traditions, spoken by participating in rituals and stories. We discuss the consciousness prompted by creatures and places and how that varies between different peoples, across place and time. We look at the notion of the erotic and the role of human beings within the wider ecology, and also how a synthesis between modern scientific and indigenous ways of knowing might weave together to enrich our love and, therefore, being in the world.We talked everything from eagles and turtles to love and participation.Melissa K. Nelson is a Native ecologist, writer, media-maker and Indigenous scholar-activist. She is the President/CEO of The Cultural Conservancy, which she had directed since 1993. In 2020 she joined Arizona State University as a Professor of Indigenous Sustainability, after working since 2002 as Professor of American Indian Studies at San Francisco State University.0:00 Introductions01:13 What is indigeneity?02:33 The names of tribes and nations04:27 Stories in the landscape06:06 The teaching of the eagle07:17 Relational and reciprocal worldviews10:25 Bridging worlds and the notion of love12:47 Oral cultures and universals15:01 The sun and turtles: beyond metaphor to participation25:20 The link between love and knowledge29:21 Expanding the erotic32:42 The role of human beings38:01 Science and indigenous ways of knowing

Dec 1, 2023 • 50min
What can love look like in an era of crisis and fear? With Clare Martin, St Ethelburga's Centre, London
Clare Martin is co-director of the St Ethelburga’s Centre for Reconciliation and Peace, located in the heart of the City of London. In this conversation, we spoke about what love can look like in the public square, particularly in contexts of crisis and conflict, and how encounters between peoples can be designed so as to foster love as a resource and active dynamic. The conversation ranged over the importance of stories, histories and the design of places, so as to aid people being more vulnerable and truthful to one another. Intention is also crucial, from reverence to respect, so that difficulty can become generative. And such tension is not just an incidental matter but, in an age of crisis and fear, stresses the spirit of any engagement.St Ethelburga’s is a religious foundation, working in an interfaith context, so questions such as prayer and invocation also come to mind. Love, then, is not only a moral matter but an elemental openness to more.

Nov 29, 2023 • 9min
Jesus the Imagination. Taking William Blake’s Christianity seriously. Essay at blakesociety.org
VALA can be downloaded as a pdf here - https://blakesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/VALA-04.pdfMy essay is at p60For more on Mark - www.markvernon.com
Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts
Save insights instantly, chat with episodes, and build lasting knowledge - all powered by AI.