
Inner Life, Talks and Thoughts
Reflections from Mark Vernon on soulful matters including spirituality and psychotherapy, science and religion, consciousness and the divine. For more on see www.markvernon.com
Latest episodes

May 31, 2024 • 12min
Beauty and the failure of politics. An election dispatch from ancient Athens
Disillusionment with politics is probably the most obvious feature of the current mood. This is, in part, because politics has collapsed onto anxiety about material improvement and lost sight of much more. In a secular society in which this facet of wellbeing is increasingly hard to deliver, politics appears therefore to be failing.So now is a good moment to consider what is sometimes called the pre-political - the more that politics needs.And a first thought comes from Plato, who would highlight the matter of beauty. He felt that if you lose touch with that, you lose touch with too much, and a loveless, ugly society would follow.Why does beauty matter? How come it is so unfashionable now, even embarrassing? What is it to be educated in beauty? Where can it be found?

May 9, 2024 • 38min
Force Fields. Behind the fog of maths. A conversation with Rupert Sheldrake
Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon delve into the world of fields in science, from electromagnetic to morphic fields. They explore the concept of fields as hidden realities, drawing on ancient philosophical views and modern scientific understandings. Discussing the relationship between fields and consciousness, they highlight the enigmatic nature of fields in physics and their link to souls and minds.

Apr 19, 2024 • 5min
The enchanted vision. An invitation to read about love
To read the essay, go to Aeon magazine's website, or https://aeon.co/essays/in-the-beginning-there-was-love-we-can-move-with-its-power

Apr 9, 2024 • 40min
Matter is frozen light. A conversation with Rupert Sheldrake & Mark Vernon
The everyday stuff called matter turns out to be both more fascinating and stranger than we usually assume. In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon ask just matter is, beginning with contemporary ideas from quantum physics, in which matter is frozen light, as the physicist David Bohm put it. They consider the relationship between matter and gravity, as well as matter and ancient notions of potentiality, which turn out to be surprising relevant today. The differences between quantity and quality offer another conversational thread, with the discussion also drawing in wider questions, such as the nature of matter within the philosophy of panpsychism, and also the etymological links between matter and mater, or mother, revealing factors about material of which most are unconscious today.For more conversations between Rupert and Mark seehttps://www.sheldrake.org/audios/sheldrake-vernon-dialogueshttps://www.markvernon.com/talks

Apr 8, 2024 • 41min
Whose revival? Which Christianity? CS Lewis & Owen Barfield on the renewed interest of belief in God
There is much talk of a revival of Christianity amongst secular intellectuals, at least in my cultural bubble. That may or may not be sociological significant and church attendence figures stay in marked decline. But what interests me is not so much the numbers as the spirit of the renewed interest. What is the feel of the Christianity being discussed, what attitudes does it embody, what spiritual does it represent?CS Lewis and Owen Barfield discussed these things and, then, Barfield teased out differences between them after Lewis’s death. He characterised that as the difference between an analytic and romantic rationality, which produces separate even oppositional understandings of God, Jesus, salvation, this world, the imagination, the human and the creation as a whole.I think that their “oppositional friendship” might illuminate our now, which I try to tease out in this talk.Recorded in St Mary Magdalene church, Stapleford Park0:00 The revival now and the differences between Lewis and Barfield4:25 The Christian story as chasm or participation8:08 Salvation or participation?11:20 Exclusive Christianity or porous Christianity?13:45 The role of reason and the imagination17:11 Following the head or the heart?21:21 Analytical and Romantic, allegorical and mythological approaches to truth27:39 The appeal of Lewis, simplicity and joy32:02 Polarities, oppositions and Trinitarian perception35:40 Different experiences of time, culture wars and choice39:02 What of the future of Christianity?

4 snips
Mar 28, 2024 • 1h 14min
Strangeness is the new real. Martin Shaw & Mark Vernon in conversation
Martin Shaw, who experienced a visionary journey to Christianity, discusses the reviving interest in Christianity, reconnecting with myths and fairytales, being in the world but not of it, and the importance of stories. He also touches on the new course 'The Skin-Boat and the Star' and the allure of Christ in today's world.

Mar 12, 2024 • 1h 34min
Christspiracy. The documentary's claims about Jesus & Christianity put to the test, w Kameron Waters
The makers of Seaspiracy and Cowspiracy are back. Christspiracy is another profoundly disturbing film detailing the industrial abuse of our animal kin. Expect more horrific carelessness and exploitation on a mass scale. Only this time, Kip Andersen and Kameron Waters not only go global but look back in time. “This is plausibly the most significant new discovery about Jesus Christ, in the last 2,000 years,” says the blurb.But can that be right? Has justified outrage at the treatment of our fellow creatures got the better of them? Initially, I wasn't convinced. But then Kameron Waters reached out to me and we had this long conversation.See what you think. [Spoiler alert - we thoroughly discuss the Christian details in the film.]For more on Christspiracy see https://www.christspiracy.comFor more on Mark, and his work on early Christianity and Jesus via the ideas of Owen Barfield, friend of CS Lewis, see http://www.markvernon.com/consciousness00:00 Introduction02:20 Where to see the documentary and how04:33 The treatment of animals as a religious concern12:26 The prehistory of hunting, sacrifice and temples21:15 What did Jesus do when cleansing of the temple?34:10 What was the cause of Jesus’s death?44:38 Jesus of Nazareth or Jesus the vegetarian Nazarene?58:37 Kameron’s own Christian journey01:05:42 But did Jesus really not eat fish?01:13:40 Ichthus, Pythagoreans and the 153 fish01:24:00 What did Paul mean by vegetarians are weak?01:31:05 Engaging with the film, engaging with the tradition

Mar 1, 2024 • 37min
The Nature of Energy. A conversation with Rupert Sheldrake & Mark Vernon
Energy is a key organising principle in modern science, the conversation of energy being a grounding and universal law. But what is energy? In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon examine the history of the idea and the word. In science, energy is a relatively recently notion, emerging in its current form in the 19th century, drawing much on mechanics. The word itself was coined by Aristotle, in the 4th century BCE, carrying a sense of vital actuality and living presence. That meaning is still remembered in Orthodox theology, which describes the energeia of God. The conversation ranges over the promiscuity of energy in the natural world to the spiritual notion of energy, including the subtle energies of the body. The implications of shaping the idea of energy through mechanical metaphors also has important ramifications, from the descriptions of economics and the efficacy of psychology to the experience of God. Further, the most recent physics argues that energy is not conserved after all as the universe expands.For more conversations between Rupert and Mark see:https://www.sheldrake.org/audios/sheldrake-vernon-dialogueshttp://www.markvernon.com/talks

Feb 26, 2024 • 1h 21min
Participation renewed. Discussing The Riddle of the Sphinx, new essays from Owen Barfield
I talk again with Landon Loftin and Max Leyf about the genius insight of Owen Barfield.The Riddle of the Sphinx (Barfield Press) is a new collection of talks and essays about the great friend of CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien.We discuss Barfield's take on analysis and analogy, Darwinian and other kinds of evolution, the significance of Rudolf Stein, and Barfield's notion of final participation.Landon and Max are the authors of What Barfield Thought.For more on my books, including A Secret History of Christianity, see www.markvernon.com0:00 The new book of talks and essays02:08 Plato, Aristotle and the evolution of analogy and analysis 13:31 Participation and the limits of modern science23:30 Barfield's critique of Darwinian evolution33:47 When the mind changes, the world changes38:03 Evolution as a moving image of eternity42:51 How can we participate in evolution?52:18 Barfield and the significance of Rudolf Steiner01:03:45 Grappling with the esoteric01:10:14 On the way to final participation01:17:16 Barfield on the meaning and revelation

Feb 22, 2024 • 1h 23min
Apocalypse? It's now! Good news & secular salvation, climate crisis & time. With Gunnar Gjermundsen
How can Christianity address the climate crisis? Isn’t the objectifying of nature and the drive to improve our lot a secular legacy of Christendom? And isn’t individual conversion more or less irrelevant in a time of systemic crisis?I was delighted to be sent an essay by Gunnar Gjermundsen that asks these questions and more. His insights are wide-ranging, integrating, inspiring and challenging, focusing on a Christianity that is not so much moral as transformative, inviting us to consider again the sayings of Jesus, via theologians such as Maximus the Confessor and psychotherapists like Donald Winnicott.In this discussion we unpack his argument in broadly three moves.First, an analysis of current anxieties that, at heart, are to do with time. A linear view of history has fostered a hope of panicky escape, sacrificing the present for the future as a false substitute for eternity, with devastating consequences for ourselves and the world around us. The problem needs to be addressed at root, which comes in a second section exploring the misunderstanding of eschatology as an event to come and be feared, rather than an unfolding now, to be welcomed. We explore Jesus’s teaching as well as how it came to be so profoundly misunderstood.The third section draws in psychological insights, particularly in terms of considering the schizoid, addictive and dread-filled nature of the modern psyche, and turns again to the Christian tradition and the remarkable notion of the kingdom of God that is near, and being born again.The apocalyptical has become a master metaphor for the contemporary imagination, inducing fatalism and denial. Christianity has a vision to undo this terror via the transformation of our consciousness and experience of time. The apocalyptic is not to come but is an unveiling in every moment, a theosis, of the eternal present.And we can live by that alternative.The essay we are discussing is Living on This Earth as in Heaven: Time and the Ecological Conversion of Eschatology, published in Modern Theology, online - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/moth.12930Gunnar Gjermundsen works in the Faculty of Theology, University of Oslo - https://www.tf.uio.no/english/people/aca/gunnargj/For more on Mark Vernon’s work, see http://www.markvernon.com
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