Manage This - The Project Management Podcast

The Podcast for Project Managers by Project Managers. As we celebrate 100 episodes we thank our listeners who have joined us for the journey. In this podcast Nick expands on some lessons he has learned about project management from his time on Velociteach’s Manage This. Table of Contents 00:06 … Celebrating 100 Episodes 03:29 … Nick’s New Adventure 07:00 … Reviewing Past Conversations 08:33 … Conducting Effective Meetings 10:13 … Virtual Team Communication 14:38 … Being Transparent and Maximizing Potential 17:59 … The Essential Components 19:27 … Importance of Integrity 22:45 … Building Blocks of a Project 24:24 … Dealing with Stress 25:34 … Cybersecurity: Creating Awareness 28:44 … Story from a Vietnam Veteran 31:55 … Learning Superior Processes 35:12 … Stimulate Progress and Maintain Excellence 39:00 … Great Leaders Bring Calm to Chaos 43:14 … Nick Signing Off Celebrating 100 Episodes NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  We are so proud and so excited to mark our 100th episode.  Everybody’s here to celebrate:  Andy Crowe and Bill Yates, producer Wendy Grounds, engineer Andie Leeds.  And we’re so glad you have joined us for the celebration, too, but also for joining us and supporting us in our Manage This journey over the past several years. Andy, I’m going to ask you, go back in time, tell us the story behind the podcast.  What was your vision for the podcast then, and has that changed over the years? ANDY CROWE:  Well, Nick, that’s an interesting question.  You know, if you go back in time, I used to be on the project management speaking circuit quite a lot. And so one of the things that always happened is people would come up and say, “I’ve been listening to these CDs”  we used to produce CDs, now they’re digital downloads.  But Bill Yates and Louis Alderman and I were on there, and people would come up and say, you know what, “I’ve been driving around in the car, I’ve been listening to that.”  One person said that when their child misbehaved in the car, that they would actually make them listen to 30 minutes of that. NICK WALKER:  Oh, cruel and unusual punishment. ANDY CROWE:  It was a really funny interchange. BILL YATES:  I’ll get feedback on that one. ANDY CROWE:  One of the things that I figured out during that series of conversations, though, is people would always come up afterward. And so they didn’t want to talk about what I had spoken on that evening at the project management meeting, they wanted to talk about the audio series that we did. And I told Bill, I said, you know, there’s a few things.  Number one, project management is a really difficult job for a lot of people because you’re effecting change, and the world resists change.  So you have people trying to create something that doesn’t exist, to make something different, and this gives us a chance just to have a conversation with people.  Every couple of weeks we get a chance to talk, and it is, it is a conversation, so I like to think of it that way. You know, so we get feedback from listeners, and we try and incorporate that into where we’re going.  But that was the whole goal is just to engage people, and part of it to say, look, we know it’s a tough job.  There are easier ways to make a living than being a project manager.  And at the same time people who do that for a living, a lot of times it’s more of a calling than a profession. So it’s something that you, you know, you can’t imagine doing anything else, it’s a chance for us to engage with people, and that’s the whole goal.  You know, we don’t monetize this podcast, we don’t sell ads, we don’t ask for donations, we’re doing it because we love this profession, too. BILL YATES:  It’s a way for us to connect with our tribe.  When I think about some of the podcasts that have meant the most to me, it’s when people are going through some of the same struggles that I have as a project manager.  Nick, I haven’t really looked at the map, but I know we’ve had, I think, just about all the continents.  We’ve had guests from all over, you know, Australia.  We had Colin, I think he joined us like 11:00 p.m. his time. NICK WALKER:  Oh, man, yeah, yeah. BILL YATES:  It was something extreme, I know, from the U.K. and from other places.  So it’s so interesting to hear perspectives from all different industries in all different locations and the struggles that they have. ANDY CROWE:  We still, I think, probably are missing Antarctica.  But I bet you, I bet you... BILL YATES:  There’s someone out there. ANDY CROWE:  There is someone out there.  I guarantee there’s a researcher.  If they’ve got good Internet, we’ll make it happen. BILL YATES:  Yeah. Nick’s New Adventure NICK WALKER:  And as the outsider, you know, in this bunch, you know, not being a project manager... BILL YATES:  What, you’re not a project manager? NICK WALKER:  Well, you know, I’ve learned something from this podcast.  Not enough to pass the PMP exam.  I’ll have to rely on your book for that.  But the things that I’ve learned, you know, go so far beyond the language and the acronyms, you know, WBS, CAPM, Agile, Scrum, Kanban boards – frankly, I’m still not sure what those last two are all about. ANDY CROWE:  You’re talking a good game, though, pal. BILL YATES:  That’s it, yeah, you’re selling the sizzle. NICK WALKER:  But as I mentioned, it’s such a big field, but it’s also inspired me in my professional life, in my personal life, recognizing that so much of what I do really is kind of project management.  My wife and I just finished one of the biggest projects of our life, so we’ve spent months trying to get a house ready to sell, getting the house on the market, negotiating with buyers, coordinating a move.  That was a big project, and the inspiration that I’ve gotten, not just from you guys, but also from our guests, I think actually helped us be more of a success in that project than we would have otherwise.  BILL YATES:  Nick, tell us more about this move. So this is a pivot point for us with Manage This.  What exactly are you guys doing?  Where are you headed? NICK WALKER:  Well, we have been living in the Atlanta metropolitan area for the last 20 years, I’ve been working at the Weather Channel as an on-camera meteorologist.  I’ve been here for the last few years working with you guys. So the time has come for us to make a transition into a new season of our life.  Our grandkids live up in the Nashville area, so our plan is to get closer to them.  My son and daughter-in-law have three kids, and soon to be a fourth one because they’re adopting a deaf child from China. And so we want to be part of that, we want to be a bigger part of the kids’ growing up. And so the time has come, I think, to say goodbye to television, to broadcasting, and just be a part of their lives more. BILL YATES:  This is going to be a wonderful chapter.  I’m so excited for you guys and proud of the move you guys are making, it’s not a selfish move at all.  We’re going to miss you here at Manage This. ANDY CROWE:  Very much. NICK WALKER:  Well, I appreciate that.  Can I just say what an education this has been, also it’s been a privilege to be associated with such an organization that’s committed to excellence, committed to helping others be the best they can be.  And so that means a lot to me, to be part of that, you folks are givers, as you mentioned, you know, this podcast isn’t sponsored.  You give of your time, energy, your talents to raise others up, and so I really appreciate that.  And I can see that in how you treat one another and how you treat our guests here on the program, it’s been personally gratifying to me to be a part of this great organization. ANDY CROWE:  Thank you, Nick.  I really appreciate that.  You know, a lot of times at a university they will confer upon someone an honorary degree, and so, Nick, by all the powers vested in me, I hereby name you an Honorary Project Manager. NICK WALKER:  Oh, my goodness. ANDY CROWE:  So now you are, that’s it, you are a project manager, you’re one of the tribe.  And so... NICK WALKER:  It goes on the résumé today. ANDY CROWE:  That’s right.  We’re going to miss you, Nick.  Thank you for everything. Reviewing Past Conversations BILL YATES:  Nick, it’s been fascinating for me just to see what’s resonated with you.  So we’re going to take a look back at some of those podcasts that maybe stood out more to you, some of the guests or some of the topics that we had. NICK WALKER:  It’s hard to really talk about which ones stick in your mind because, you know, you go back, and you look at some of these topics, and we have had some amazing guests.  You know, we talked about Tabetha, who had a star named after her, the most mysterious star in the universe.  We also went down below the seas, talked about underwater vehicles with Oceaneering International,  Wildfires in California, Cataloging space debris, Saving rhinos.  We went in depth in managing the Fukushima disaster, we also talked about managing a major motion picture with “Guardians of the Galaxy.” BILL YATES:  Yeah, with Pez, yeah. NICK WALKER:  So there’s been a lot of fun stuff.  But there’s also been a lot of practical stuff, as well.  We talked about negotiation techniques.  We talked about performance reviews, risk management.  We’ve dealt with Agile a lot, you know, answering the question, “Is Agile right for me?”  We talked about changes in the PMP exam, we answered listeners’ questions. And we talked about using the right software to get the job done.  Conflict management.  All very practical things, so many episodes dealt with such a variety.  You know, I came into this podcast kind of green, not really knowing even what project management was, but realizing that it is all of these things that we talked about, and much more.

The podcast for Project Managers by Project Managers. As organizations are going through transformation, there’s plenty of internal and external pressure to adapt, PMI’s Stephen Townsend talks about the changes and challenges for project managers, future trends in the marketplace, and how the role is evolving. Table of Contents 00:26 … Meet Stephen 02:02 … Cooks vs Chefs 08:53 … Enhancing your Toolkit 10:41 … Conflict and Adaptation 13:14 … Future Trend: Soft Skills to Accelerate Innovation 21:12 … Building New Skills and Capabilities 25:31 … Global Executive Council Talent Management Survey 29:56 … How Organizations can Help PMs Increase Value 35:54 … Challenges as Opportunities to Change your Perspective 42:13 … A Revolution of Project Management 44:48 … Connect with Stephen 46:02 … Closing STEPHEN TOWNSEND: ...one of the key things I would say to individuals is, if you’re completing PDUs just to tick the box, you’re wasting an opportunity.  You’re wasting your opportunity, and you’re wasting your organization’s opportunity because this is really your investment in ensuring that you remain competitive in today’s environment, not only within your organization, but also competitive with your peers who are project leaders. NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  This is our opportunity to meet with you and talk about what real life is like in the shoes of a professional project manager.  I’m your host, Nick Walker, and with me is the guy who is always on the lookout for interesting and talented people we can bring on our program.  And Bill, it looks like your talent scout eyes have snagged another big fish. Meet Stephen BILL YATES:  Yeah, I’m delighted that Stephen Townsend is going to give us the time on the podcast.  He is a very busy man.  I’ve known him, goes pretty far back, probably 2011 when I served on the Advisory Group for the PMI REP communities, when I really got to know Stephen.  And then had the opportunity to sit in on one of his talks, a couple of his talks actually, at the fall Global Conference back in fall of 2019 and just was reminded of the depth of his knowledge and the experience that he has.  Stephen’s out there in the marketplace.  He meets with so many companies to talk with them about their project management practices and where they’re going, what trends they see.  So great to have him on with us today. NICK WALKER:  Well, before we meet him, let’s learn a little bit more about him.  Stephen Townsend has worked with PMI since 1999, and currently he is PMI’s Director for Network Programs.  In this capacity he leads special program initiatives for the Institute.  One of those is serving on the U.K.’s Project X Research Consortium Steering Committee, supporting the benefits realization management research stream.  He’s also involved in exploring how organizations are enhancing and reinventing their value delivery capabilities.  For U.S. federal government agencies he produces materials to help them implement requirements associated with the Program Management Improvement Accountability Act.  He also leads the PMBOK Guide’s Seventh Edition transformation work stream.  Stephen, welcome to Manage This. STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Thank you.  Good to be with you all today. Cooks vs. Chefs NICK WALKER:  We want to talk with you about some of the changes and challenges you see coming down the pike for future project managers.  But first, I’d like for us to talk about an analogy that Bill says you made at the PMI Global Congress last fall.  And any listeners with a background in the restaurant industry are going to get this right away.  You said that some project managers are cooks, and others are chefs, and also that we need both.  So could you explain that analogy? STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Yeah.  So just to put it in the context of the conversation that we had at the PMI Global Conference, we presented a slide that was intended to be provocative, to get people to really think about themselves in the context of their organization and its current state, whether that’s in transformation, whether they’re in steady state.  And the question was, do you envision yourself as a project manager or as a transformer?  And I’m hoping that people don’t take anything negative from the connotations of a cook versus a chef.  But they really reflect different mindsets, skills, and capabilities that we wanted to emphasize in the conversation.  So, for example, the cook likes process. BILL YATES:  Right. STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Give me a pathway to creating the desired output and constrain change so that I can actually deliver what I’ve been asked to deliver.  And one of our PMI volunteer contributors, a gentleman by the name of Eric Norman, who led the development of the Third Edition of our Standard for Program Management, shares that, in the context of program management, the team embraces change because you’re trying to implement a vision of something that’s completely different, that you haven’t done before.  But in a project, your focus is on constraining change because you have a very specific output that you’re trying to accomplish.  And anything that changes that output requires change across all of the different elements of the project that you’re trying to manage, particularly the cost and the schedule and the resources. So in projects, as much as you can, you try to constrain change, whereas in programs you tend to embrace change.  And so in the environment that a cook operates in, a cook wants to maintain the stable condition.  So you want the oven at the right temperature.  You want all of the exact ingredients in the exact quantities that you need them. A chef, on the other hand, likes experimentation.  For a chef, the outcome is about the experience in finding the right ingredients, in understanding how to blend them, and in delivering a fantastic meal at the end.  It’s not about the deliverable.  It’s about the outcome.  And so in this context the chef understands the properties of the ingredients and how to blend them, how to produce the desired flavors.  Chefs also love improvisation.  They love tailoring, and they love adaptation. So if you look at that in a project context, if I’m the type of person who likes stability, or who understands and feels that the process is the way to guide the achievement of the outcomes, I’m going to be more of a cook.  So I’m going to want to use the process to constrain change, have all the right ingredients at the right time at the right temperature to move things forward.  If I’m the kind of person that loves a challenge, that loves a little bit of chaos I might be more of a chef because I want to be able to pivot and adapt.  I want to use process where process makes sense. But there may be times where we have to pivot.  We have to adapt.  We have to invent our own way of being able to deliver.  And particularly as organizations are going through transformation, as they’re trying to build new transformative capabilities.  The chef characteristics play a much greater role in those types of initiatives than they might in some of your more product or service delivery types of activities. And to the point that we were discussing before the podcast started, we had a young lady in the audience who said that she was actually a mixture of both, that she liked process because process gave her a sense of discipline and order that helped her frame how she might focus on delivering the outcome.  But she also liked a little bit of chaos and the ability to be adaptive and to change and, in some instances, to actually instigate change.  So not just responding to change, but being the one to instigate change in the organization. So people kind of know where they fit in this construct at what they’re comfortable with.  And the key thing is you can be one; you can be the other; you can be both.  And organizations need project professionals who bring both skill sets to bear. BILL YATES:  Stephen, I agree with that so much, and one thing I’ve noticed about the great chefs, they started out as cooks. STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Definitely. BILL YATES:  And I think, drawing that analogy further, I think project managers, again, we have to learn how to walk before we can really start running and sprinting.  And you’re right.  Organizations need both, both those who can follow a recipe and keep banging out consistent great results.  And then they need those who improvise or perform really well when there is a chaotic moment. There’s a show that I like watching called “Chopped.”  And it’s 60 minutes of chaos.  There are four chefs that are competing to be the Chopped Champion every episode.  And those are definitely chefs.  They don’t have recipes.  They’re given, I think, 20 minutes for the appetizer round, 30 minutes for the entrée round, and 30 minutes for dessert.  And they’re competing against each other.  They have the same ingredients.  There’s no recipe, so, you know, cooks beware.  Right?  You really – you have to improvise, and you have all these different resources that you can go to, to pull in different flavors.  And so it’s fun to watch that. But I can see how that analogy plays out with project managers.  And one thing I’m excited about, Stephen, after hearing your presentation, your talk at Global, I was thinking, you know, what a great conversation to have in terms of what you see in terms of trends in the marketplace for project managers.  How do you see the position or the role evolving?  And I know you and I had some prior conversation about a particular study from the American Productivity and Quality Center.  Maybe a good time for us to talk through some of that, some of those findings. Enhancing your Toolkit STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Sure.  Before we go to that topic, though, I also want to point out, because when we use the word “project manager,

Are you suffering from burnout and low productivity? Sarah Hoban talks about identifying workplace stressors that lead to burnout, and how boosting your productivity can be an antidote to burnout. Hear how to recognize the symptoms of burnout and how to delegate effectively.

The podcast for project managers by project managers. Project Managing Community Gardens. Hear all about an innovative project to increase access to locally grown food and build healthier communities, by empowering local growers, prioritizing local food, and saving food-producing land in a fast-growing city. Table of Contents 01:37 … Meet Britni 02:22 … Food Well Alliance 04:18 … Connecting with a Passion 05:33 … Preparing for a PM Role 07:02 … Stakeholders 07:59 … Plant Eat Repeat Project 09:01 … Aluma Farm Project 13:57 … Communication with Stakeholders 15:03 … Working with City Governments 16:06 … Problem Statement Strategy 18:09 … Facing Obstacles 20:03 … Compost Issues 22:44 … Getting a Community Garden Started 24:55 … Resources Offered to Growers 26:58 … Face to Face with End Users 29:20 … Where to get Produce 29:42 … Advice for New PM’s 30:41 … Lessons Learned 31:43 … Closing BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  I think my advice would be the importance of building your project management toolbox, so learning what are those best practices, whether it’s techniques of communication, how to interact with partners externally or internally.  What are those tools you need, you know, your templates for budget and timeline and meeting notes?  But then in addition to that also still being able to stay fluid and adaptable and recognizing that you may have to change things up because every project is slightly different.  Every partner on that project is slightly different.  NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  We’ve been listening to what you’ve been telling us about what subjects you’re interested in and what kinds of guests you’d like to hear from, and so we thank you for your input. Please keep the comments about our podcast coming.  So you can leave a comment on Google, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or whichever podcast listening app you use.  You can also leave comments on the Velociteach.com website or on our social media pages, it’s your feedback that brings the kind of guest we have on our program today.  And Bill Yates, I need to tell you, I’m not sure who suggested we have a podcast about food, but I’m certainly glad they did. BILL YATES:  It’s making me hungry just thinking about that.  Looking forward to getting into that.  So Britni is going to describe some projects that she’s worked with that are really unique, the stakeholders are unique, the problems to solve are unique.  And I think, regardless of the type of project we have, we can all learn from Britni. Meet Britni NICK WALKER:  So, let’s meet our guest, she’s Britni Burkhardsmeier, a project and impact manager at the Atlanta non-profit Food Well Alliance, a collaborative network of local growers, community leaders, and city leaders, working to build thriving community gardens and farms across Metro Atlanta.  The goal is to increase access to locally grown food in order to build healthier communities.  Britni holds a master’s in public health from Emory University’s Rollins School of Public Health, with a concentration in global nutrition.  Prior to attending graduate school, Britni worked as program coordinator on the emergency health and nutrition team at Save the Children U.S. in Washington, D.C.  Britni, welcome to Manage This. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Thank you for having me. Food Well Alliance NICK WALKER:  Let’s get started by just learning a little bit more about the Food Well Alliance. So how did that organization get started? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  So we started in 2015 with funding from our founding benefactor, the James M. Cox Foundation.  And we really got started because it was a vision between the Cox Foundation and Bill Bolling, the founder of the Atlanta Community Food Bank.  And so together they saw an opportunity to connect members of Atlanta’s local food movement to collectively build healthier communities. NICK WALKER:  And what about you?  I mean, tell us a little a bit about your background.  So how did you meet up with this organization? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yeah, so I got introduced to Food Well Alliance in 2017, when I was a graduate student at the Rollins School of Public Health at Emory University.  So I was getting my master’s in public health, with a concentration in nutrition, and through a professor and a class got introduced to Food Well Alliance and was part of a team that helped write the Atlanta’s Local Food Baseline Report, which Food Well Alliance published.  Kind of one thing led to another, and I stayed on.  And so, yeah. BILL YATES:  I’ve got something that I have to confess right off the top. NICK WALKER:  Uh-oh. BILL YATES:  I hate cucumbers. NICK WALKER:  No. BILL YATES:  So when you studied nutrition, and when we talk about local farms and farming and bringing vegetables and fruit to local communities, I have to go ahead and confess I am totally cool with this conversation as long as we don’t say we have to have cucumbers.  Can we agree to that? NICK WALKER:  So this guy, when somebody brings in masses of cucumbers that they’ve grown at home in their garden to give out to all... BILL YATES:  To share. NICK WALKER:  Yeah, to share, you kind of... BILL YATES:  I curse them. NICK WALKER:  Yeah. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Good news is that farms and gardens grow a lot of things in addition to cucumbers, yeah. BILL YATES:  Okay, that’s good. So okay, I’m onboard with this conversation,  I’m probably going to get some hate mail on that, and I get it. They’re nutritional, but I am sorry, it just doesn’t do it for me.  There are many vegetables that I do fully endorse and embrace and eat very consistently, but cucumbers are not it. Okay. NICK WALKER:  All right. Connecting with a Passion BILL YATES:  I just had to hate on it just for a minute.  When I think about, okay, you go to school, and you pursue nutrition, and you go deep into that, and then you find an organization that connects with a passion that had to be fun for you.  And, I mean, for so many people, they’re deeper into their career.  They’ve been working for quite a while.  And they’re like, eh, still don’t really enjoy, haven’t really found that thing.  But it seems like you were able to make that connection with this organization that’s like, okay, this is a passion point for me.  Was that the case? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yeah.  The thing that’s also really exciting about it is, so nutrition’s really broad; right? BILL YATES:  Yeah. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  There’s a lot that fits under that, from the health side to then like food and security.  Do people have access to food?  And Food Well kind of bridges a lot of those gaps.  So, yes, I came at it originally from nutrition in terms of making sure that’s how people are getting their nutrients, and they’re staying healthy.  But then my time at Food Well Alliance, I have learned about why healthy soil and compost is so important to make sure that the food that you’re eating is nutritious; why it’s important for people to have access to these foods, whether that’s farm stands at urban farms or farmers’ markets or community gardens kind of producing for themselves and the families that are there. Preparing for a PM Role NICK WALKER:  You have been thrust in this role of project manager. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yes. NICK WALKER:  So what kind of prepared you for that role? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  It wasn’t something that I really knew much about going into it.  So it’s not like I went into school being like, okay, project management is what I want to do.  But it was one of those things where, in my career, both before Food Well Alliance and then really at Food Well Alliance, colleagues and managers kept kind of being like, you know, the skills you’re exhibiting are really great skills for project management. And so the more that I looked into, okay, what is project management, what does a project manager do, really realizing that that is what I was doing in the projects that I had been placed in.  And so that’s what I was enjoying doing.  I enjoyed working with a bunch of different people on something and kind of, not necessarily being the expert, but working with all of the experts and really bringing them together to produce something kind of incredible. BILL YATES:  And for not-for-profits such as the Atlanta Food Well Alliance, it’s so important to bring in somebody that’s got that skill set and that natural bent of, okay, I’m good at connecting people and managing stakeholders and helping define  requirements and then getting it done. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yeah.  And, you know, it’s been interesting for me because sometimes that’s just internal with my colleagues; right?  There can be a bunch of us within different teams, even though we’re a small organization, really kind of, okay, how do I project manage that internally; but then definitely externally, as well, because we do work with so many different partners. Stakeholders BILL YATES:  I wanted to ask you about those stakeholders.  We kick around that word “stakeholder.”  But you do, you’ve got internal – you’ve got experts that obviously know a lot about nutrition and a lot about land use and things like that.  But then you partner with everybody from folks wearing coveralls to people wearing three-piece suits. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yeah. BILL YATES:  So you have politicians, you have people with a lot of money, you have people that have very intense needs locally, what prepared you for that? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  I’m not sure, to be honest, but it is probably one of my favorite parts of what I do is working with everything from the farmers and the growers.  So I work on a couple of projects with Truly Living Well Center for Natural Urban Agriculture, which is an urban farm in the west side,

It’s a “Stump the PM” session! Velociteach Senior Instructor, Margo Love has over 30 years experience managing projects and we are going to discover which of the 49 Project Management Processes she has not performed and why. Margo discusses executing both internal and external projects. Of the 33 Project Documents in the PMBOK guide, Margo weighs in on which she has found to be indispensable.

Hear how to support your team’s success when transitioning to Agile. The adaptation of the Aikido principle of Shu Ha Ri, as well as more info on Disciplined Agile. Table of Contents 00:58 … Meet Alan 02:07 … Defining Agile 04:20 … Shu Ha Ri 08:26 … Non Traditional and Non Profit uses of Agile. 14:43 … Challenges with Transitioning to Agile 17:41 … Disciplined Agile Train the Trainer Seminar 21:48 … Choosing your WoW 23:14 … D.A. and Lean 26:01 … Value Stream Mapping 27:33 … Fundamentals of Agile InSite Course 29:51 … Closing Alan Zucker: ...as long as you are stepping in and making those decisions, the team won’t.  So you really need to focus on stepping back and giving the team that space to make those decisions and allowing them to stub their toes and skin their elbows. So that they will become successful over time. NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  We’re back with another episode, bringing the kind of information you’ve been asking for.  We hope you’ll keep the requests and comments coming in.  You can always comment right there on your listening app, or on Velociteach.com, or on social media.  We love hearing from you. I’m your host, Nick Walker, and with me are the two guys who guide our discussion, Andy Crowe and Bill Yates.  And this time around we’re featuring a member of the Velociteach family.  And like most of the folks around here, Andy, he has credentials a mile long. Meet Alan ANDY CROWE:  He does indeed, Nick.  And we have Alan Zucker on the show today.  And Alan and I go back a good ways.  He and I interacted back before he worked for Velociteach.  We had a relationship.  Somebody I have deep respect for, and I’m really looking forward to today’s podcast. NICK WALKER:  Before we hear from Alan, I want to tell you a little bit more about him.  He’s a certified project management professional, an ITIL Foundation certificate holder, a Scrum master, a scale Agilist, and an Agile certified practitioner.  Alan Zucker is a keynote speaker, and he has more than 25 years of experience as a leader in Fortune 100 companies.  In 2016 he founded Project Management Essentials to provide training and advisory services.  He recently completed a new course for Velociteach titled “Fundamentals of Agile.” Alan, welcome to Manage This.  We want to talk Agile today. And before we really get into it, can you tell me a little bit about what Agile is, particularly for my benefit and for the benefit of those who maybe are coming from a predictive or waterfall background. Defining Agile ALAN ZUCKER:  Sure, Nick.  Well, first of all, Andy, thanks so much, it’s great to be on the podcast again. So Agile is a way of managing projects and it goes back formally about 20 years. And it started out as a way of developing software using incremental and iterative development techniques. So what we try to do with Agile is try to develop our projects and deliver our projects in smaller pieces. And then learn from what we’ve delivered in order to make things better with each of the successive increments. BILL YATES:  Those are some of the keys; right?  Small batches, quick iterations, quick turnaround, get it in the hands of the customer, deliver value quickly.  Those are some of the keys. ANDY CROWE:  Value, value, value. BILL YATES:  Yeah, value, value. ALAN ZUCKER:  And so I think one of the other really big pieces of Agile is that it changes the way we work, and it really focuses on having empowered teams and people really engaged, both from a customer’s perspective, as well as from the technology team perspective. In our traditional projects, particularly our waterfall projects, there’s a big separation between the customers, the business, the development team, the testing team, and on an Agile project we try to get everybody to collaborate together more effectively. So, it’s really interesting, Jeff Sutherland wrote one of the really great books on Agile, and he actually wrote it with his son J.J, and J.J Sutherland, as you may know, was a producer for NPR.  And in the book he talked about how, when J.J. was covering the Arab Spring in Egypt, they really were having a hard time getting the material back to the states for broadcast.  And they thought about how do we deliver the broadcast, and how do we cover the topics more quickly so we can get smaller pieces back to the states in order to meet their broadcast delivery schedule.  So even though Agile was built for software development, it has a lot of applications outside the software development realm. Shu Ha Ri NICK WALKER:  Alan, there’s a Japanese martial art called Aikido, and so within that there’s the principle of steps to mastery of Aikido that’s the Shu Ha Ri, and a lot of Agile leaders have borrowed this principle.  Tell me about how Shu Ha Ri fits into the Agile concept. ALAN ZUCKER:  So a number of the Agile thought leaders use the Aikido principles of Shu Ha Ri as a way of talking about progressing and maturing our Agile. The idea behind Shu is where we’re following the rules, and if you’re doing a martial art, this is where you follow the master, and you really are copying the master step by step. So the idea behind Ha is where we’ve learned the principles, and Ha stands for bend the rules.  So we’ve learned the principles, we’re beginning to adapt the style a little bit for ourselves.  And then the idea of Ri is break the rules, and that’s where you’ve gained your own mastery, and you can see patterns, and you can pool different practices and almost create your own style with this. So one of the things that’s been really interesting for me is I’ve been doing Agile now for actually well over, I hate to say it, 30 years.  And now that I’m teaching, and I’m consulting and coaching organizations, I’ve really gotten to the point where I’ve got that rate, where I can pick different things off the shelf, and I can work with non-software development organizations and other organizations to help them apply the Agile principles to improve whatever they are doing. ANDY CROWE:  You know, Alan, when you were talking about this, something came to mind, I’ve been reading Cormac McCarthy lately and Cormac McCarthy is a famous fiction author.  He will do some things that are so unconventional as a writer. For instance, he doesn’t do a lot of punctuation marks, he doesn’t do quotes, he just goes back and forth with narrative and dialogue, and it’s very fluid. Now, my middle child tried to do this back in high school, and decided he was going to just eliminate certain pesky rules of grammar, but he had not mastered the Shu first, so he didn’t know the rules and you’re not allowed to exactly bend the rules or break the rules yet. So as a writer, this actually resonates very loudly with me, I understand, you know, there are certain rules as a writer that I will intentionally break. The rule in my house is you can use incorrect grammar if you know the rule, and you know what you’re doing, so there’s a little bit of a parallel there, as well. ALAN ZUCKER:  So it’s really interesting, about two years ago I started working with this team. I was part of a small eLearning company, and when I started working with them, they were like, we want to learn Scrum.  So I went, and I did a workshop for them, got them running on Scrum. But I also taught them how to do Kanban, or flow-based Agile, and I’ve maintained contact with the director of the group over the years. And in the last six months they’ve actually moved onto the next version, where they’re doing what they’re calling “hyper sprinting.” So instead of following the two-week Scrum process, or the flow process, they are doing demos two times a week. They’re delivering work as soon as it’s available, they are not doing story point estimates. They’re still doing daily stand-ups and some of those things, but they’ve bent the rules in order to make it work for their organization. And so it’s really interesting, and they’ve been very, very successful with it, that’s in software development. Non Traditional and Non Profit Uses of Agile I’ve also started to do some work with nonprofits. I’m working with the board of a nonprofit near me, and so I’m using Agile principles with them to help them run their board meetings much more successfully. BILL YATES:  What are some of the challenges that you see a group like that – so you know, you’re mixing things up for them and introducing these new concepts. Do you start out with, “Hey, guys, I’m going to teach you Agile,”  or do you just go into specifics and say, “Hey, here’s another practice that I think may benefit our group?” ALAN ZUCKER:  So I don’t start trying to teach Agile theory to a nonprofit board.  What I do is I start in with the practices.  So the new board started its term in July.  So at the first board meeting, I did what I normally do when I’m starting up an Agile team, which is setting the rules of normative behavior. And so I go through a structured brainstorming process, everybody puts their ideas, how should we behave as a board, what are our expectations of each other and of ourselves.  We put the ideas on the wall.  We go through our brainstorming process, and we sort of codify that into the rules of normative behavior, and then we set that as how we’re going to work. So it was really interesting, I was standing there, and we came up with the rules. It was like, we want to be respectful, we want to be efficient in terms of the use of our time. We want to have respectful debate, all these things.  And then I turn around – I’m going through this, and I’m facilitating this process, I see a couple people on their cell phones scrolling through, a couple people sort of having side conversations. And so like a good Scrum master, like a good Agile coach, I said, “Look,

The podcast for project managers by project managers. Hiring the best is a significant undertaking. Our guests Don Lang and Laura Butcher offer excellent advice on how to approach filling a critical position, and choosing a candidate who is a right fit for your organization. Table of Contents 00:48 … Meet Don and Laura 02:03 … Understanding the Whole Person 03:21 … Job Description vs Job Specification 07:00 … Measurable Job Specs 08:12 … Candidate Specification 11:03 … Deal Breakers 11:55 … Talent Brand 13:35 … Being Transparent and the Cost of a Bad Hire 19:23 … Planning for the Interview 21:08 … Building Rapport 23:12 … Laying out the Interview Plan 24:40 … Non-Verbal Cues 25:48 … Note Taking 28:46 … Roles of Multiple Interviewers 32:12 … When No Candidates are a 100% Match 35:10 … Assessing Capability 37:04 … “Hire The Best” Insite Course 38:23 … Closing DON LANG: Oftentimes companies will spend more time investing in a new piece of software or a photocopy machine in terms of doing research and scouring prices and so forth.  And they’ll do a couple of quick interviews and think you’ve made the right decision.  NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  Every couple of weeks we meet to discuss what’s important to you and to all professional project managers.  We try to talk with the best of the best, drawing on their experience and seeing what has worked for them. I’m your host, Nick Walker, and with me is the true voice of experience, Bill Yates.  And today, Bill, we have another full house here in the studio. Meet Don and Laura BILL YATES:  Yes, we do.  It’s great to have Laura and Don in the room with us.  And I cannot wait to dig into this topic because they are experts when it comes to hiring the best. NICK WALKER:  So let’s talk about hiring.  As we all know in today’s economy, hiring the best people is more critical than ever.  It costs a lot to find and interview candidates and to train new employees.  No one can afford to lose time and money from a bad hiring choice.  Employees are an investment, and we want a good return on that investment.  That’s why Don Lang and Laura Butcher are here with us.  They are the founders of Blue Key Partners, a consulting firm focused on helping organizations develop their leadership talent through learning and executive coaching. Don and Laura wrote a course titled “Hire the Best” for Velociteach’s InSite Mobile Learning Platform.  Laura has a background as an HR leader, supporting hiring and talent decisions across multiple industries; and Don has experience as an assessor of talent and in helping leaders apply skills and techniques to get the right person in the right job at the right time.  Don, welcome to Manage This.  Laura, great to see you again.  Welcome back. LAURA BUTCHER:  Thank you. DON LANG:  Thank you. Understanding the Whole Person NICK WALKER:  Let’s just start with the basics; all right?  First, getting to know a job candidate.  To what extent is it important to learn more than just the person’s job skills? DON LANG:  Well, it’s certainly important to understand the whole person because that’s who shows up at work.  Oftentimes in an effort to try and get the best person we focus on some technical competency, some experience, some skills, at the exclusion of really understanding how is this person going to fit in the organization? And I was reminded of that the other day when I was talking to a hiring manager who hired a construction estimator.  Lots of great experience in estimating significant construction projects.  But when they got to work, immediately they started looking at different ways of changing the work environment in their office.  They wanted to move to a different floor because it was too noisy where the other estimators were.  They wanted a microwave brought in.  They wanted someone to help do some of the tasks that typically the other estimators would routinely do.  So very quickly they’re finding out, even though he’s very skilled, he’s not a good fit for that organization.  And they’re thinking at 90 days now that they may have to let him go. Job Description vs Job Specification NICK WALKER:  Oh, my.  How do you sort of judge that, assess that before? LAURA BUTCHER:  Having a thorough plan for how you’re going to approach filling this critical position is an important aspect of hiring the best and hiring the right fit.  So understanding very specifically what’s required in the role and what are the specifications of the candidate that will be best suited for the position.  We often discuss the difference between a job description, typically, and what we refer to as a “job specification.”  So when you think about a job description, job descriptions were created largely in organizations to grade jobs, to benchmark them with the marketplace for compensation purposes.  Job descriptions weren’t created to fill the job or to staff the job appropriately. BILL YATES:  But we use that all the time, don’t we. LAURA BUTCHER:  We do. BILL YATES:  I mean, that’s kind of our first – that’s like our introduction to somebody.  Hey, are you interested in this position?  Let me show you a job description. LAURA BUTCHER:  And what we distinguish when we talk about a job specification is really focusing in on what are the results that this role needs to produce for the organization?  What outcomes  will this person be responsible for creating for the organization?  So that drives a deeper level of understanding of what you’re really looking for in this candidate, what outcomes they need to produce. BILL YATES:  When I was looking through the content for this course, excellent content, I was hanging out on that because I’ve been guilty of that, just showing candidates a job description and not really talking about what my expectations are, what kind of results I want them to hit.  So give some examples.  For instance, I was thinking, you know, maybe somebody’s responsible for first response to a customer, if there’s a change request.  And then I was thinking, okay, that could be in a job description. But maybe going deeper in the spec it’s, you know, what should that thing look like?  What should that response look like?  What’s an acceptable email or phone call or whatever, the kind of communication that we expect, and then the timeliness of it.  You know, I don’t want to be having a performance review with somebody later and go, yeah, you are responding.  You’re doing what’s on the job description.  But it’s not of the quality I expect, or it’s not timely.  What are some other examples that you guys have helped people with? DON LANG:  Well, certainly, back to the example you’re mentioning, Bill, in terms of activities, really, around the job, right, oftentimes we have in mind certain outcomes that we’re looking for.  Like we want to raise the bar on customer excellence.  We want to raise the bar on our responsiveness.  We want to raise the bar on innovation in the changing work processes to be better at it, as opposed to we’re just satisfied with what has gone on over the past several years. So it’s helpful to give the extra thought before going to the marketplace to figure out, so who do I want, to figure out what do I really want to accomplish over the next 18-24 months that is going to have an impact on our business.  And once I can put some clarity to that, then I’m in a better position to actually start to break down, so what are the behaviors and competencies that are necessary in order to be able to achieve that?  That’s where we would generate a candidate specification. Measurable Job Specs BILL YATES:  Got it.  So in the job spec are you driving some metrics there?  Are you trying to make that measurable? DON LANG:  Absolutely, that’s what you would share with the candidate along the way, so there’s no surprises. BILL YATES:  No surprise. DON LANG:  They know what you’re expecting, and so they can perhaps even self-select out, if those are not something that they want to achieve or don’t believe they could achieve, that kind of thing.  So it isn’t a surprise when they come onboard that now we’re asking them to achieve certain levels of results. And so that’s, wow, that’s news to me, I didn’t hear that in the interview process. BILL YATES:  Yeah, right. DON LANG:  We were just talking about activities. BILL YATES:   So thinking about this specification, are we talking about like a 10-page document here?  Is this something short?  A briefer one-pager?  What does it look like? DON LANG:  If it’s more than a page, it’s probably too long. BILL YATES:  Okay. DON LANG:  We’re really looking at I would say somewhere in the three to six priorities, the outcomes, more than that, you’re not actually going to be able to assess the candidate around.  And more than that they’re probably not going to be able to accomplish. BILL YATES:  Yeah.  They won’t have clarity on what really is job one for them. DON LANG:  What matters. BILL YATES:  Yeah. Candidate Specification NICK WALKER:  So we’re talking about two separate specifications here:  the job specification, the candidate specification, what exactly is that difference? LAURA BUTCHER:   So the candidate specification actually flows directly from the position specification.  So when we talk about a candidate specification, we’re trying to identify very specifically what are the technical competencies, experiences that are required to be successful in the role, but also those qualitative attributes, those things that really are the X factor, the things that will make the person fit with the culture, with the leadership, with the values of the organization. And so those qualitative attributes become part of the candidate specification.  And driving those to some degree of specificity,

In the early 1900’s, the fungal pathogen which causes chestnut blight was accidentally introduced into the United States. It was first detected in New York in 1904 and quickly spread throughout the eastern US forests. By the 1950s, this pathogen destroyed 90 percent of nearly four billion American chestnut trees. Current projects bring hope for the majestic American chestnut tree. We spoke with Dr. Powell about his role as project leader in one such project.

The podcast for project managers by project managers. The NTSB: hear about managing projects for the National Transportation Safety Board. Our guest Michele Beckjord is the Supervisory Investigator in Charge and Project Manager for the NTSB Office of Highway Safety. Michele explains the investigative process and describes some positive changes from NTSB projects. Table of Contents 00:52…The NTSB02:48…Meet Michele05:16…The Supervisory Investigator in Charge05:16…NTSB Project Manager Role08:02…Disaster Response Teams09:50…Incident Response Criteria12:14…NTSB Most Wanted List13:46…Sharing Lessons Learned16:00…Following Up NTSB Recommendations 17:34…Some NTSB Projects19:09…Avoiding Emotional Burnout22:58…Stages of the NTSB Investigation Process28:17…Growing into the Job32:01…Getting Accurate Information33:18…Positive Changes from NTSB Investigations36:40…Find Out More about NTSB Projects37:47…Closing MICHELE BECKJORD: You’re never an expert in a project you’re handed.  You’re the project manager.  It’s not your job to be the expert in that particular area.  It’s your job to get that project managed to its completion point.  NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  Every couple of weeks we meet to try to get to the heart of what you face every day as a professional project manager.  And we do that by talking with people who are right there with you, facing their own challenges and finding their own solutions. I’m your host, Nick Walker, and with me is Bill Yates, who thankfully is the one who keeps us on track around here.  And Bill, we often hear in the news stories of accidents involving aircraft, railways, ships at sea, vehicles on highways.  Our guest is someone right there in the thick of all those stories. The National Transportation Safety Board. BILL YATES:  She is.  And we’re going to talk about the National Transportation Safety Board and have a conversation with Michele.  And just I’m fascinated in seeing how does a project manager manage the situations that she deals with, with the high impact that it has, the high visibility, and just the high stakes of these types of projects. NICK WALKER:  Yeah.  Let’s get into this just by talking a little bit about the National Transportation Safety Board.  The NTSB is an independent federal agency charged with investigating every civil aviation accident in the U.S., and other significant accidents on land and sea.  It also issues safety recommendations aimed at preventing future accidents.  Listen to this number:  14,900.  That’s how many safety recommendations the NTSB has made in its 52 years of existence.  And more than 80 percent of them are implemented. Meet Michele We’re looking at kind of a different approach to project management today with our guest, Michele Beckjord.  Michele is the Supervisory Investigator in Charge for the NTSB Office of Highway Safety.  She has a B.A. in Criminal Justice from American University and a Master of Forensic Science from George Washington University.  She has worked for the National Transportation Safety Board since 1995 and has served as a senior survival factors investigator and senior project manager.  Ms. Beckjord has led investigations of major highway crashes involving school buses, motor coach fires, and bridge collapses.  As a project manager, she’s also taken the lead role in managing major investigative hearings, safety forums, and workshops. Michele, thank you so much for joining us on Manage This.  And we want to start by just hearing more about your position as the Supervisory Investigator in Charge and Project Manager for the NTSB Office of Highway Safety.  What does that entail? The Supervisory Investigator in Charge.  MICHELE BECKJORD:  Well, I’ll start with the Supervisory Investigator in Charge.  We call it an IIC for short.  What the ICC does is lead a team of investigators.  And each of our investigators have a different background or specialty area they focus on for every investigation that we send a team out.  We have three teams in the Office of Highway Safety that covers the entire nation.  And so I am one of three IICs.  My team, and all the teams, are composed of a human performance investigator, survival factors investigator, a vehicle factors investigator, highway investigator, and then a motor carrier.  And so each of those guys has their niche in the investigation.  And of course there’s a lot of crossover. So, for example, our motor carrier investigator is going to go to – let’s just pick Greyhound.  If we have an investigation involving Greyhound, he will actually go to the motor carrier’s location and look through their files and look at their driver qualifications.  And so but you’re also going to have a human performance investigator that wants to know exactly what the driver was doing.  They’ll work in tandem.  Also our vehicle investigator is going to be putting that vehicle up on a lift, getting in there and looking at all the mechanical systems, make sure everything was functioning as it should have.  Our survival factors investigator will do the interior of the vehicle.  So if it’s a motor coach, looking at how did somebody get injured or killed inside the motor coach, and then working with the vehicle investigator to see what type of seats were in there, what type of belts.  When was this built?  What was any retrofit that might have been done?  So everybody works very closely together, but they each have their own area. BILL YATES:  And Michele, do these three – is it often that these three teams are working at the same time, working investigations at the same time? MICHELE BECKJORD:  We have multiple investigations ongoing all the time.  So we spend two weeks on call, two weeks in backup, and two weeks off call.  So each team does that rotation to cover a six-week period.  However, if one of our teams gets sent out on a major crash investigation, the next team in backup may need to go out if there’s another large one that happens so that we don’t miss out on an opportunity to make a difference.  And so you need to be right near your phone, and you have a “go bag” with you, and you launch out to wherever that accident will be.  We say “launch.”  But, you know, if you were talking about deployment, we would go to wherever that accident happens anywhere in the U.S. NTSB Project Manager Role Right now, as a project manager – which I’m sort of transitioning out of that role, but I’ve been doing that for about 18 years.  The project manager takes the reports that those investigators write, and they turn it into the product that the board votes on. Our five politically appointed board members will vote on what we present to them in a report fashion.  That’s what you end up seeing published on the web, that we can then make recommendations, and everyone can go and read the entire report, factual and the analysis, of what happened, why we think it happened, and what we think the probable actual cause of that, either accident, whether it’s a bridge collapse, a motor coach rollover, a school bus fire, what caused that to happen.  So that final product is what I manage as a project manager.  So an investigator in charge will do the investigative part and then work hand-in-hand with the project manager once that investigation’s over to turn it into a report and get it before the board members. BILL YATES:  That makes sense.  So the deliverable is that final report.  That’s what the project manager is ultimately responsible for. MICHELE BECKJORD:  Absolutely.  You’re responsible for the final product of a report.  But encompassed in that report are all of our safety recommendations. BILL YATES:  Right. MICHELE BECKJORD:  So even as a project manager – so let’s say, for example, I just finished a report on Oakland, Iowa’s school bus fire.  All the recommendations in that product will then also tie back to me until they all get closed out by the recipients.  They will contact us, and I will work with them on that.  So the product never really fully ends.  But as a general rule, your product is that project.  That project is the report.  And the report is telling the story of the investigation. Mission and Core Values of the NTSB. BILL YATES:  Michele, give us a sense for the mission and the core values of the NTSB. MICHELE BECKJORD:  Well, the core values, there’s four, so you have transparency, you have integrity, you have independence, you have excellence.  And so those are relatively new terms that we’ve put out there recently.  It used to just be that our mission was investigating accidents that happened in transportation, determining the probable cause, and issuing safety recommendations so that we can try to prevent that type of accident from happening again.  Over the last several years, we wanted to develop more of a core value that we could put out there so people really understood it wasn’t just a mission for us, it was how we went about doing that mission that we take a lot of pride in. And so that’s where that transparency comes about, that we let the entire public know everything we’re doing from start to finish, and how we got to where we are at the end with that project that I put forth to the board members. Disaster Response Teams NICK WALKER:  Now, do you ever work with disaster response teams and those sort of resources to help meet the needs of the victims themselves, so the families of the victims, that sort of thing? MICHELE BECKJORD:  Absolutely, so as soon as we hear about an investigation or an accident that’s happened, we have folks in what we call our Response Operations Center. And so they monitor all the television stations, and they monitor all incoming calls from across the nation reporting accidents to us, whether that’s aviation, rail, marine, any of those.

The podcast for project managers by project managers. From choosing the best strategy and establishing ground rules, to finally implementing an agreed plan, our guest Neal Whitten describes a thorough and effective approach to managing conflict. Table of Contents 01:54 … Meet Neal 02:44 … Defining Conflict 03:42 … Indicators of Conflict 05:30 … Sources of Conflict 08:06 … Conflict Resolution Strategy – Thomas Kilmann Model 08:46 … Competing Strategy 09:10 … Collaborating Strategy 09:37 … Compromising Strategy 10:15 … Avoiding Strategy 12:40 … Accommodating Strategy 12:55 … Choosing a Strategy 14:23 … 7 Steps to Conflict Management 16:08 … Step 1: Choose the Strategy 16:17 … Step 2: Establish Ground Rules 16:48 … Step 3: Define the Conflict 18:02 … Step 4: Explore Solutions 18:17 … Step 5: Select best Solution 18:11 … Step 6: Agree to Implementation Plan 18:55 … Step 7: Implement and Verify 19:00 … Collaboration 20:09 … PM’s Role in Conflict Management 21:34 … A Benefit of Conflict 22:36 … Overcoming Emotions and Egos 25:04 … Face to Face is Best 26:53 … Instill Confidence in a Team 29:47 … Conflict Mangement with a Boss 32:11 … How to Escalate 32:59 … “I Will Not…” Post Conflict Statements 34:28 … Get in Touch with Neal 35:17 … Closing The podcast for project managers by project managers. Conflict management advice for the project manager on resolution strategies and how to implement a conflict management plan. NEAL WHITTEN: We need each other more than ever.  There’s so much data, so much information there, you cannot be an expert on everything anymore.  We need to work and collaborate with one another.  So that’s part of the theme through conflict resolution. NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  This is our chance to talk as professionals in the field of project management.  We want to address your concerns, your needs, and to give you, not only some tips on bettering your game, but to encourage you in it.  We feature guests who have developed their skills and want to help you develop yours. I’m your host, Nick Walker, and before we get to our guest, I’d just like to personally thank our listeners for the comments we’ve received about our podcasts.  This is how we know if we’re succeeding, how we know if we’re really helping you, so please continue to leave your comments on Google, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or whichever podcast listening app you use.  You can also leave us a message on our website, Velociteach.com, or on social media, we want to hear from you. And right now I want to hear from Bill Yates because our guest today is somebody that you have known for a while.  And he’s going to be speaking to something that is, well, I guess inevitable in any project manager’s line of work. BILL YATES:  Conflict is going to happen, when you have two or more people working on something, you’re going to naturally have conflict, and I’m delighted to have Neal Whitten speak into that.  When he and I were talking several months ago about what topic should we address next for project managers, we landed on conflict management.  And I got excited about that right off the top because this is just a part of life, especially in projects.  We have conflict at home, we have it in school, we have it in every phase of life, but absolutely in the workplace.  So addressing that with Neal is going to be a great conversation. Meet Neal NICK WALKER:  And of course we’ve had Neal on before.  But let me reintroduce him to our listeners.  President of the Neal Whitten Group, Neal Whitten, PMP, is a course author and contributor to Velociteach InSite’s elearning courses and has also been a contributing editor of PMI’s PM Network Magazine for over 15 years.  Neal previously worked for 23 years at IBM, in both project leader and management positions.  Neal is a popular speaker, trainer, consultant, mentor, and best-selling author in the areas of leadership and soft skills, project management, and also employee development. And Neal has just completed a new course with our InSite elearning department, the course is titled “Seven Steps to Successful Conflict Management.”  Neal, welcome once again to Manage This. NEAL WHITTEN:  I am honored to be here.  Thank you so much. Defining Conflict NICK WALKER:  All right.  Let’s get right into it.  What all are we talking about when we talk about conflict in the workplace?  Do we have maybe a definition? NEAL WHITTEN:  Well, I do have a definition, but as you would know, conflict is a natural part of the workplace environment, you cannot get away from it.  As a matter of fact, if you work around people consistently, you’re going to run into conflict, and by the end of any given week, you’re probably going to have had that conflict several times a week. So as far as defining conflict, a definition that I use is it’s a disagreement or disharmony between individuals arising from actual or perceived differences or incompatibilities.  And I want to emphasize the “perceived” part because a lot of conflict is because we have a perception. We have our own lens that we’re looking through, and we don’t fully understand the other person’s position and what they’re going through, and consequently the conflict evolves. Indicators of Conflict NICK WALKER: So you know I’m sure for some people they maybe either like to maybe deny that there’s conflict going on, or sweep it under the rug, or kind of, let’s look on the bright side.  But there’s probably some indicators out there of what conflict is, and what should we be looking for? NEAL WHITTEN: So I’d say some obvious indicators of conflict could be open hostility and lack of cooperation and people missing commitments, that sort of thing.  But there’s subtle conflict that’s everywhere, and it can manifest itself as one or more team members demonstrating a change in communication, such as body language, or tone and volume of voice, or being indifferent or low key, but deliberate sniping and gossiping. Those kinds of things mean that there’s also something going on in the back office, and that we need to get to the root of. BILL YATES:  That’s good, Neal. So the key word of “subtle,” that really resonates with me.  There are times when you walk into a situation, and you see two people at it, I mean, they’re that close to just going physically at each other.  So you’re like, oh, I think I have conflict.  But more often, what I’ve discovered with project teams is what you describe, it is subtle, it’s a different tone of voice.  It’s a lot of times I’ll walk into a room, and there’s not an energy level there that I normally sense, there’s no laughter, there’s no chatting.  You know, there’s no side conversations going on.  And so it may be everybody’s just totally focused on work. But sometimes, after a while, I think it becomes kind of a warning signal of, hey, wait a minute, there is some underlying conflict here. People are at odds.  They’re quiet.  They’re also kind of out of their normal behavior.  So then we need to get into it and see what is the source, what’s happened?  What did I miss, you know, that kind of thing.  So I think the subtle signs are the ones that, as I grew as a project manager, those I had to become more aware of.  So I think it’ll be interesting to see what we get into with some of these examples. Sources of Conflict NICK WALKER:  Is there a common source?  I mean, does it all stem from the same place? BILL YATES:  Well, Nick, that’s why you’re here in the room with us. NICK WALKER:  Ah. BILL YATES:  This is an intervention. NICK WALKER:  To instigate the conflict. BILL YATES:  You’re it, dude.  Yeah, you’re the conflict guy. NEAL WHITTEN:  I hear people often say that breakdown in communication is a major root cause, but it’s not always that. So I’ll give you some examples of causes of conflict, in my course I have over a dozen of them.  But I’ll just throw a couple out from memory here.  Limited resources.  For example, we all need access to resources, whether it’s time or funds or IT services. Maybe you just need a meeting room or help from colleagues, and when there’s too little resource to satisfy that need, conflict can arise. BILL YATES:  Absolutely. NEAL WHITTEN:  Personality clashes.  We all think a bit differently, sometimes the slightest offense can fester into a more serious conflict. And another one’s unfair treatment.  So we’ve got our own perceptions of what is fair and not fair, and oftentimes without the other party having a clue that we feel like we’ve been wronged.  I’ll tell you one that I really like a cause, and that is psychological needs.  Most people have some desire for power, control, and status recognition, and these desires can also lead to conflict.  So let me throw one more out that comes to mind, poor implementation of recognition and awards. Most of us feel that we’re not appreciated enough, and so seeing your coworkers being recognized can sometimes leave you with a feeling of being overlooked and can become a breeding ground for resentment and conflict. And so as you can see from the few examples I’ve given, there’s a lot of causes for conflict, and there’s many more I don’t have. But one thing is certain, conflict is exceptionally pervasive in any work environment.  Even teams that are high-performing teams, there’s still going to be some conflict.  And in fact, in high-performing teams, you actually want conflict sometimes because what it does is it refines the thinking and the thinking process and helps a team to actually move forward more quickly and so forth.  And when I think of conflict, I actually don’t think of negative, I think of something positive. I actually – so I’m not going to say I look forward to a conflict in a negative way, you know, people yelling or something like that,