Valley of Depth

ABL Space is heading back to the pad after a power failure prevented its maiden launch attempt from reaching orbit last January. The company, known for its innovative approach to ground infrastructure by containerizing its launch system, aims to launch its RS1 rocket by the year's end.This week's Pathfinder podcast features Dan Piemont, the cofounder, President, and CFO of the LA-based launch startup. Mo and Dan delve into the lessons learned from the company's initial launch attempt and the improvements made to the RS1 and GS0 ground system. In addition, they discuss:How ABL differentiates itself in the marketCurrent supply/demand dynamics of launchRideshare packaging efficiencyPlans after Flight 2And much more…This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ • Chapters • 00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad01:56 - Dan’s background02:34 - History of ABL05:05 - What differentiates ABL?08:23 - Regulation surrounding mobile launch systems10:08 - Flight 1, what happened?13:56 - Key improvements on Flight 218:12 - Risks of diving into Block 220:53 - Plans after Flight 221:29 - Increasing launch cadence24:52 - Traction between government and commercial customers26:43 - Is heavier launch in ABL’s future?28:20 - SpiderOak Ad29:07 - Supply and demand dynamics32:56 - Rideshare packaging efficiency42:51 - Lack of high cadence in the industry44:30 - What are investors currently looking for in the market?48:12 - Creating momentum after Flight 1• Show notes • ABL's website — https://ablspacesystems.com/ABL's socials — https://twitter.com/ablspacesystemsMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Back in the Pathfinder hot seat is Caleb Henry, Director of Research at Quilty Space. We were privileged to have Caleb join us over a year ago on one of the initial Pathfinder episodes, where he shed light on industry consolidation and the T-Mobile partnership with SpaceX. Today, he rejoins us to delve into a variety of pertinent topics, including: SpaceX vs everyone elseRemote sensing business modelsLEO vs GEO broadband operatorsCapacity shortages across operatorsEffective telecom regulation And much more…This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ • Chapters • 00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad 01:56 - Caleb’s origin story 04:00 - Transitioning from journalist to research writer 10:08 - How does Quilty choose what to focus on 13:44 - Is SpaceX a monopoly? 18:24 - Supply/demand dynamics of launch 20:39 - Market for small and medium lift launch vehicles 24:42 - SpiderOak Ad break 25:29 - The commercial remote sensing market 30:53 - A commercial remote sensing market big enough for multibillion businesses? 33:57 - Will Starlink make GEO operators obsolete? 40:03 - A shortage of capacity? 42:56 - Would you rather be a LEO or GEO operator? 45:42 - Where should there should be more regulation? 49:56 - What would you be doing if you weren’t in the space industry?• Show notes • Caleb's socials — https://twitter.com/ChenrySpaceMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Today’s Pathfinder episode features Leon Alkalai, former Technical Fellow of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) and now the founder of Mandala Space Ventures. Having spent 32 years at JPL, we dive into his leadership roles for the GRAIL mission in 2007, which mapped the Moon's gravitational field and the Insight Lander in 2012, a first of its kind mission aimed at exploring Mars' deep interior. Leon now runs Mandala, a combination of space venture studio meets venture fund. In addition to all this, Mo and Leon discuss: The history of NASA JPL Commercializing JPL technologies The venture studio approach to space And much more… This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ • Chapters • 00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak 01:20 - Leon's PhD 01:49 - How did Leon end up at JPL 04:08 - Freshly minted PhD. What's next? 07:55 - JPL & NASA 11:51 - Missions at JPL Leon is most proud of 17:34 - Recovering the gravity of the Moon 21:39 - SpiderOak Ad 27:52 - Mandala Space Ventures 32:08 - The venture studio model 35:15 - Most value added to businesses 37:13 - How to view the industry 39:48 - What you look for in a company and what are some red flags? 41:21 - How does Leon build a team 43:59 - Technology that excites Leon 48:42 - A Starship future • Show notes • Mandala's website — https://mandalaspaceventures.com/Leon's socials — https://twitter.com/DrLeonAlkalai Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Today’s Pathfinder episode features Will Coffield, cofounder and General Partner of Riot Ventures. Riot has a proclivity for investing in early-stage companies with transformative tech ideologies dedicated to revolutionizing traditional industries. Today’s conversation also features the space and space-adjacent companies that Riot has invested in including True Anomaly, Integrate, and Azimuth.In addition to Riot’s origin story, Mo and Will discuss:Mapping real customer demandLiquidity within deep techCategorizing space investingDual-use technology…is it a cover for defense investing?And much more…This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/• Chapters • 00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad02:31 - Will’s background13:20 - Riot's investment strategy17:06 - Seed investments19:54 - Mapping real customer demand22:07 - Liquidity in deep tech industries25:52 - SpiderOak Ad26:40 - How do you categorizing space investments?34:21 - Is dual-use technology a cover up for defense investing?38:09 - Integrate and Azimuth42:58 - Crowding in the market47:02 - Starship’s impact on the ecosystem48:48 - Technologies Riot is excited about49:54 - Outside of LA, where's the biggest space ecosystem?• Show notes • Riot's website — https://www.riot.vc/Will's socials — https://twitter.com/WillC_5Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes• About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Today’s Pathfinder episode brings in Bill Weber, CEO of Firefly Aerospace, hot on the heels of the U.S. Space Force’s VICTUS NOX mission success. Bill shares insights on the prep work that propelled the mission, with a nod to his past life helming a public company. The discussion offers a glimpse into the meticulous planning and execution required in modern space missions. In addition, Mo and Bill chat: Firefly's next-generation launch vehicleWorking with Northrop GrummanSupply/demand dynamics of the launch marketHow hard it is to reach orbitAnd much more… This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ • Chapters • 00:00 - Introduction01:47 - Bill's background and how he got into the industry08:12 - What is Firefly?10:05 - Why is Firefly focusing on end-to-end transportation?14:53 - Metrics of the Alpha launch vehicle17:38 - Customer traction20:19 - How hard is it to reach orbit?22:30 - Being consistent on the easy stuff26:12 - SpiderOak Ad26:59 - The Victus Nox Mission33:25 - Working with Northrop Grumman36:50 - Reusability in the MLV38:54 - Raising a Series C in today's market41:44 - A PE-backed company45:08 - Will Firefly go public?47:52 - Is the launch market crowded?47:59 - What is happening to public aerospace stocks?48:27 - When do you think space companies will be ready for IPOs?49:22 - Areas of the market that are overhyped and underhyped50:22 - Breakthrough technology to pay attention to51:05 - Company outside of Firefly that you're rooting for • Show notes • Firefly's website — https://fireflyspace.com/ Firefly's socials — https://twitter.com/Firefly_Space Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Today’s Pathfinder episode features Chris Celtruda, CEO of Valence Surface Technologies and Operating Executive at ATL Partners. With over 30 years of leadership experience, Chris offers a masterclass on scaling aerospace & defense businesses and implementing successful management styles.In addition, Mo and Chris chat: Chris' experience building multiple A&D businessesATL Partners’ new focus on spaceThe current investment landscapeRaising capital in today's marketAnd much more…This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ • Chapters • 00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad02:10 - How did you get into the space industry?04:48 - Has the industry changed in El Segundo, CA?06:30 - What is ATL?10:10 - What made ATL focus on space?11:42 - How is ATL different?13:42 - Chris's management style17:14 - Selling your vision to an investor20:32 - Advice for new founders25:18 - Investing strategies34:13 - Launch market37:08 - Is satellite broadband a viable business model?41:14 - Public space stocks45:46 - M&A outlook47:46 - IPO outlook48:58 - What technology excites you and how would you invest your capital today?• Show notes • ATL's website — https://www.atlpartners.com/Valence's socials — https://twitter.com/ValenceSTMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes• About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

There’s a growing demand for streamlined communication and collaboration tools in the space industry. Integrate Space, based in Seattle, is tackling this challenge head-on. Co-founded by John Conafay, a veteran with ties to the USAF, ABL, Spaceflight, and Astranis, the startup aims to modernize program management, offering digital solutions to track development schedules, coordinate missions, and improve vendor collaboration. John believes that a platform like Integrate needs to be part of every industry building complex hardware. With newly acquired funding and two new contracts with the USSF and Firefly Aerospace, the company is expanding its team and moving into a new office in Seattle. Though space was where Integrate started, the company with the help of its new investors intends to expand into the biotech and cybersecurity industries. A sneak peek… In today’s episode, Mo and John chat: – The landscape of digital tools in the industry – Integrate’s business model and core value proposition – Raising capital in the current market – Digital solution platforms at scale And much more… This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ • Chapters • 00:00 - Intro 00:28 - SpiderOak Ad 01:05 - Integrate introduction 03:32 - How would you describe what Integrate does to your 5-year-old cousin? 05:34 - John's history with the new space industry 13:51 - Is Integrate's solution a nice to have or integral to solving huge inefficiencies? 16:14 - Integrate's core offering 17:31 - Initial target/customer base 18:36 - Integrate's business model 19:28 - How large is Integrate's team today? 20:23 - Integrate's branding origin 22:41 - SpiderOak Ad 23:28 - Recent contract wins 27:07 - Integrate's use case for the government 29:08 - How does Integrate fit in the competitive landscape? 31:15 - Does Integrate compete against internal builds from larger companies? 32:59 - Digital tools at scale 34:04 - Round construction 37:13 - Growth areas for Integrate 39:45 - Integrate beyond space 40:59 - Advice for founders looking to raise pre-seed funding 43:07 - Tech that John is a big fan of 47:28 - Favorite space book/show 49:03 - How to get invited to an Integrate party/get connected as a customer • Show notes • Integrate's website — https://integrate.space/ Integrate's socials — https://twitter.com/Integrate_hrdwr John's socials — https://twitter.com/JConafay Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes• About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Space's unique environment holds vast potential for biotech advancements, Mark Kugel, co-CEO and cofounder of German space biotech company Yuri, told Payload. Why space? In this week’s Pathfinder podcast, Mark says that space changes biological systems in commercially valuable ways:– Complex Cell Development: Enhanced growth results in superior organoids, optimizing drug testing and tissue engineering.– Crystal Quality and Size: Space improves the formation of protein crystals, bolstering drug discovery and delivery processes.– Human Aging Effects: Studying space's impact on aging could illuminate early-stage drug solutions for age-driven diseases, such as cancer.– Microbial Evolution: Space prompts unique microbial adaptations, potentially producing advanced strains and enzymes beneficial for the pharma, food, and agritech sectors. Yuri’s core innovations:– Space-ready Bioreactors: Yuri's modular bioreactor system offers a novel approach for cultivating biological materials in space. Compact and transport-friendly, it's tailored for expeditions, including the ISS.– Ground-Based Space Simulation: Prior to committing to space-bound projects, researchers can utilize Yuri's simulator to anticipate the effects of microgravity on their experiments. Yuri's partners range from pharmaceutical giants and government agencies to academic institutions. The company has worked with the likes of NASA, ESA, and GSK, the British multinational pharma and biotech company. A sneak peek…Before Yuri, Mark Kugel supported the digital transformation of Rolls-Royce Power Systems and built an "Airbnb for consumer products" called Usely. In today’s episode, we chat:– Yuri’s origin story– A history of biotech in space– The initial focus on synbio and drug discovery– Why space biotech is ready for commercialization This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/And much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad01:42 - What does Yuri do?02:35 - How did Mark get into bio tech and start working at Yuri?06:06 - Is this industry starting to inflect?09:31 - What does microgravity enable in biotech?15:51 - Bacteria in space18:37 - Space biotech industry now vs. the future24:23 - Yuri's business model32:00 - Yuri's team35:05 - Synbio from the context of space38:59 - From R&D in space to Earth at scale41:20 - Milestones at Yuri42:44 - Yuri's competitors44:07 - Why is Germany the right place to build?46:03 - Government use case47:10 - Yuri in 10-20 years48:33 - Space tech that Mark is excited about49:26 - When is Yuri's next project launching? • Show notes •Yuri's website — https://yurigravity.com/Yuri' socials — https://twitter.com/yurigravityMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers.Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

The clock is ticking on Voyager’s aspirations in LEO.In 2021, the Denver-based space exploration company announced its goal to launch a commercial space station by 2028, three years ahead of the ISS retirement. Clay Mowry, the chief revenue officer of Voyager Space and one of the driving forces behind that vision, joins Pathfinder this week to dive into the company’s plans to build infrastructure in Earth orbit. The LEO significance: With the ISS bowing out, LEO-based ventures like Voyager’s Starlab are poised to fill a gap in LEO, though they aren’t the only ones chasing that goal. Other companies like Axiom, Sierra Space, and Northrop are working in partnership with NASA to capture the billions of dollars spent on the ISS every year. The focus of Starlab, which is partially funded by a $160M space act agreement with NASA, will be on research applications, rather than tourism. The station is designed to fit on a single launch, outfitted on the ground with all the research equipment needed for its customers. It’s expected to be able to hold four people and will be used to conduct scientific research.The company recently announced a collaboration with Airbus Defense and Space. The international joint venture will be based out of the US, but features a European arm focused on serving the European Space Agency (ESA) and its member space agencies.A sneak peak…Before taking up the role of CRO in January 2022, Mowry made instrumental contributions at Blue Origin and oversaw operations at Arianespace, Inc. Beyond Voyager, Mowry's influence extends to the International Astronautical Federation, an international non-governmental organization (NGO) that was founded in 1951 to promote the peaceful use of space. In addition to Voyager’s future, we chat:Clay’s time at Arianespace and Blue OriginWhy Starlab is critical to our future in spaceThe partnership with AirbusCultural changes in the space industryThe IAF and its missionAnd much more…This episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ • Chapters • 00:00 - Intro & SpiderOak Ad02:19 - Clay's background and interest in space07:20 - From Arianespace to Blue Origin11:27 - The first New Shepard Auction14:08 - Role as CRO at Voyager16:08 - Is Voyager a holding company?16:48 - Brief background on Dylan Taylor18:45 - Who convinced Clay to join Voyager?20:08 - What is Starlab?28:20 - Partnership with Airbus31:21 - SpiderOak Ad32:09 - The case for private space stations40:19 - How heavy launch will change mass and design constraints for the industry43:06 - Competitive landscape46:06 - What is the IAF?49:33 - Biggest cultural changes in space51:17 - When do you think New Glenn will fly?• Show notes • Voyager's website — https://voyagerspace.com/Clay's socials — https://twitter.com/claymowryMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

This week’s Pathfinder podcast features Chris Kemp, the founder and CEO of Astra, the publicly-traded launch company based out of Alameda, CA that went public via SPAC in the summer 2021. Since then, Astra's valuation has seen a dramatic decline, plummeting from a peak of approximately $4B to a mere $67M today. Chris paints a vivid picture of two contrasting narratives. On one hand, there's a satellite propulsion business, acquired through the purchase of startup Apollo Fusion, with a 278-engine backlog valued between $70M and $83M (based on an average selling price of $250-300K). This business has a distant, yet potential opportunity to secure contracts that could significantly change its trajectory. In contrast, the launch business is in jeopardy as capital evaporates. Astra's Rocket 4 must not only launch successfully but also prove its consistency to secure significant commercial deals. Many of our listeners are well-acquainted with Astra's struggles, given the numerous reports on the company's launch failures and recent wave of departures. Today, our conversation with Chris primarily focused on the future of Astra and how to think about what upside case may remain for the business. We chat: Rocket 3 vs Rocket 4: why Rocket 3 failed and the lessons applied to Rocket 4The status of commercial and government contracts The state of financing for launch companies Valuing Astra’s satellite propulsion business Key lessons learned as CEO What does the future hold for Astra? And much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Introduction 00:56 - Current state of Astra 03:04 - Origins of the business model 07:26 - Key challenges today 11:49 - Rocket 4's specs 16:13 - Contracts with NASA/Space Force 17:09 - Improving reliability from Rocket 3 to 4 21:30 - Rocket 4 engines 24:24 - Importance of strategic partnerships 29:07 - Astra's manufacturing facility 30:03 - What would you have done differently? 33:25 - Bull-case for the prop business 39:15 - Current financial health 41:27 - Team construction and retention 44:10 - What is the investment case for Astra today? 47:03 - Lessons learned as CEO 49:57 - Conclusion• Show notes •Astra website — https://astra.com/Chris’s socials — https://twitter.com/kempJohn Walker's "A Rocket a Day Keeps the High Costs Away" — http://www.astronautix.com/a/arocketadayhighcostsaway.htmlMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy publication, hits inboxes Tuesday (https://polaris.payloadspace.com/) 4) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)