Valley of Depth

Fresh off of a $95M Series B funding round, this week we bring back Ian Cinnamon, CEO of Apex, on to the show. Ian, along with his co-founder Max Benassi, started Apex to address the bottleneck in satellite bus manufacturing. Apex is revolutionizing the small satellite bus market with its productized approach and rapid manufacturing capabilities. Our conversation explores Ian’s journey from concept to scaling production, including:The Series B funding round and its implicationsApex's mission to become the leading supplier of satellite busesChallenges and strategies in scaling productionImportance of maintaining a product-focused modelInsights into the evolving satellite bus marketThe future vision for ApexAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro & 100th episode!02:42 - Apex origin story03:59 - Changes between funding rounds05:12 - Key factors in raising $95m06:40 - Financing needs of Apex07:35 - Current fundraising environment09:07 - Market opportunity of satellite buses10:55 - Is there serious demand for buses if you take out Starlink?16:05 - Winning niche for contracts17:53 - How Apex separates itself from competitors19:27 - SpaceX's bus building capabilities21:04 - Plans beyond LEO22:06 - Apex naming scheme23:49 - Mission 128:23 - First expectations for Mission 130:10 - Mission 1 timeline32:24 - Combatting the unreliability of the current state of launch37:03 - Balancing Apex's needs and the government's40:42 - Impending government contract win?41:53 - Why Apex built an e-commerce workflow44:22 - Scaling48:09 - Team size and expansion goals at Apex49:34 - What kind of capital would Apex need to be self-sustainable51:56 - Advice for prospective founders53:15 - Long-term vision, 10 years out55:53 - Who is playing Ian in the movie about Apex? • Show notes •Apex’s website — https://www.apexspace.com/Apex’s socials — https://twitter.com/ApexSpacecraftIan’s socials — https://twitter.com/IanCinnamonMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Pierre Lionnet leads Eurospace and brings 30 years of expertise in space economics. He sheds light on the complex dynamics of the space economy, revealing overestimations in market forecasting and misconceptions about industry growth. The conversation touches on the environmental impact of increased satellite launches, the sustainability of startups in the space sector, and the need for accurate data-driven assessments. Lionnet also emphasizes the pivotal role of private investment and commercialization in shaping the future of space exploration.

Mike Palank, former Hollywood talent agent now at MaC Venture Capital, talks about transitioning into VC, spotting talent, and the importance of diversity in investments. They discuss the space industry, notable investments, and challenges faced by startups. Insightful conversation on the evolution of space investing and initiatives for diversity in the sector.

Mason Angel, a New Shepard astronaut and General Partner at Industrious Ventures, shares insights into investing in legacy industries like aerospace. He discusses his spaceflight experience, the impact of space tourism, key investment areas, and the future potential of space. The podcast delves into Mason's strategic vision, the state of space investment, and his journey in transforming industrial sectors through innovative technologies.

Ray Allensworth, Spacecraft Program Director at Firefly Aerospace, discusses Firefly's Blue Ghost lunar lander program, the importance of lunar exploration, challenges of moon landings, and potential future missions. They explore technical milestones, commercial opportunities on the moon, and the role of Firefly in supporting NASA's Artemis program.

Join Jed McCaleb and Max Haot as they discuss Vast's pioneering efforts in commercial space stations. Topics include economics, competition, military use, Launcher acquisition, and Haven One's launch. Explore Vast's product roadmap and the challenges of space station investment.

Former CTO of Maxar, Sid Dixit, discusses the impact of generative AI on satellite imagery analysis, the evolving demand for Earth observation data, the role of SpaceX in the LEO market, challenges and opportunities for Earth observation startups, and the future of satellite imagery quality. The conversation also covers investment strategies within the industry and promising Earth observation startups.

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Sinead O’Sullivan, an economist and board member of the European Space Policy Institute. Sinead has had a unique career, from her early days in aerospace engineering in Northern Ireland to significant roles on Wall Street and at top academic institutions like Georgia Tech and Harvard. In her free time, she’s written about space, economics, wine, and even music for publications such as the Financial Times, Vogue, and The New Yorker—because who doesn't love a little light writing and high-profile journalism to unwind?Our discussion explores the intricate dynamics of public vs. private funding in the space industry and the challenges posed by venture capital and institutional investments. In addition, we discuss:Capital destruction in new technologiesThe importance of institutional capital…if the industry can maintain its growthThe future of space financingThis episode is brought to you by Epsilon3, a cloud-based platform that supports a wide range of operational procedures requiring extreme efficiency and control. Innovative teams at NASA, Blue Origin, Redwire, and Firefly Aerospace use it to plan, execute, and automate their most complex workflows. • Chapters •00:00 Intro & Epsilon ad01:16 Sinead's background07:56 Engineer or Economist?09:49 Sinead, the writer12:14 Public vs private funding sources20:00 The sustainability of current private-first funding mechanisms28:14 Role of DoD in supporting startups46:39 What will make institutional capital take the space industry seriously?55:31 Space financing in 10 years01:00 Irish modern art • Show notes •Sinead’s socials — https://twitter.com/SineadOS1Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week’s Pathfinder features Chris Taylor, CEO and founder of Aalyria, a Google spinout that specializes in advanced connectivity solutions. The company is developing what could be game changing free-space optics hardware and network orchestration software to meaningfully change communication speed and efficiency across air, space, land, and sea. It’s core products include:Tightbeam: An advanced free-space optics technology which uses coherent light (laser technology) to transmit data at high speeds over long distances without physical connections like cables.Spacetime: A SaaS platform that serves as a network management system that can control and direct data flows across different types of infrastructure, including satellites, ground stations, and other communication devices, effectively making each component a node in a larger network (think: traffic controller for communications). In this episode, we dissect:Free space optics 101Aalyria’s origins as a Google spinoutDeep dive on core technologies and challengesStrategic commercial applications • Chapters •00:00 Intro00:32 Chris's path to Aalyria02:15 What is Aalyria building?04:52 How do different space assets communicate with each other today?05:59 What is optical communication?07:58 The coherent light free space optics (FSO) program10:50 Why did Google sell their optical comms tech?12:56 Why is this so important?15:15 Benefits of Tightbeam over existing free space optics, coherent vs non-coherent space optics21:22 Customer profiles25:41 Real-world use case28:02 Use case in autonomous fleet navigation29:44 Fleet of autonomous taxis30:53 Size of Aalyria's addressable market35:34 Commercialization prospects38:32 Work with DIU (Defense Innovation Unit)40:01 Competitors42:25 Limits of technology44:22 Funding47:00 10-year vision50:34 What does Chris do for fun? • Show notes •Aalyria’s website — https://www.aalyria.com/Aalyria’s socials — https://twitter.com/AalyriaTechMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

The first single-stage-to-orbit (SSTO) space plane? That's exactly what we're discussing on this week’s Pathfinder podcast. We interview Livingston Holder, cofounder and CTO of Radian Aerospace, which is developing a fully reusable space plane designed for horizontal launch and landing.SSTO? Essentially, SSTO vehicles are designed to reach orbit using a single stage without discarding any hardware.We explore Livingston’s background as a former USAF astronaut as well as the Seattle-based startup’s roadmap to build the world’s first SSTO space transport vehicle. In addition, we cover:Radian’s technology advantageCultural and operational shifts in space missionsMarket positioning of SSTOFuture applications and impact on space opsAnd much more…This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA). • Chapters •00:00 Intro & ITA Ad02:12 Why space?04:45 The astronaut program06:06 Culture of NASA vs AF astronauts07:29 Life after the program09:24 Livingston's path to Radian12:39 What is Radian building?16:05 Unique take off18:17 Who designed the sled?19:36 Single-Stage-to-Orbit23:26 Nozzle extensions25:10 Why now?29:12 How Livingston met his cofounder33:19 Where is Radian today?38:19 First flight test projection39:23 Capabilities and market positioning43:19 Hypersonic travel47:32 Government and commercial traction49:41 Direct competitors52:15 How expensive is it to build Radian's spaceplanes?54:43 What does Livingston do for fun? • Show notes •Radian's website — https://www.radianaerospace.com/Radian's socials — https://twitter.com/RadianSpaceMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/