Valley of Depth

In this week’s Pathfinder pod, Chiara Manfletti, CEO of Neuraspace and former President of the Portuguese National Space Agency, discusses the growing importance of space situational awareness (SSA) and space traffic management. Neuraspace is a Portuguese startup that is developing a software platform that provides satellite operators with risk assessments, maneuvering advice, and insights on space debris.Chiara explains Neuraspace’s mission to tackle the challenges of space debris and why it's essential to develop better tools for managing space traffic. She also shares the story behind Neurospace’s founding, the company’s growth, and their innovative approach to automating satellite operations.We also discuss:The threat of space debris and its long-term implicationsHow Neuraspace integrates multiple data sourcesThe role of space situational awareness in the future of autonomous spacecraftDifferences in commercial and government customer needsThe long-term vision for making space a safer, more sustainable place for satellites and other assetsAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:58 - What is Neuraspace?02:14 - The founding vision04:07 - Is space debris an issue?08:18 - Unnecessary maneuvers09:40 - Neuraspace's ecosystem11:17 - Neuraspace's ground-based hardware12:36 - Challenges acquiring the right data amidst competition14:17 - Value chain of space situational awareness15:26 - Benefits of having a company focused on intelligence17:40 - How Neuraspace predicts collision events20:22 - Challenges integrating different sources of data22:00 - Automation and level of control satellite operators24:37 - Scaling26:39 - Catalysts for satellite threat detection28:24 - Primary customers28:53 - Expectations of governments vs. commercial clients30:05 - State of orbital debris globally and how Chiara thinks it'll change31:12 - Competitors today32:25 - Revenue model33:36 - Work Neuraspace does with regulatory bodies34:20 - Funding36:07 - Long-term vision for Neuraspace • Show notes •Neuraspace’s website — https://www.neuraspace.com/Neuraspace’s socials — https://x.com/neuraspaceChiara’s socials — https://x.com/chiaramanflettiMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes• About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

The cost to build a mass scale propellant production system on the Moon? Much less than $100M according to Starpath cofounder and CEO Saurav Shroff. The LA-based startup is developing the infrastructure for lunar resource extraction—including a power plant, a fleet of rovers, and a processing plant.In this episode, Saurav breaks down Starpath's approach to off-planet fuel production and how it can enable cost-effective and reusable space travel. He also shares his thoughts on the future of lunar and Martian colonization and how propellant production plays a pivotal role in making interplanetary travel economically viable.We also discuss:The technical hurdles of producing propellant on the Moon and MarsThe impact of propellant production on reducing the cost of space travelThe potential customers and business modelsHow Starpath’s approach complements the vision of companies like SpaceX and Blue OriginThe long-term vision for a human presence on the Moon and Mars, and what it will take to get thereAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:25 - What is Startpath?04:11 - How was Starpath founded?07:28 - The team08:55 - Starpath with and without SpaceX13:20 - Mega scale propellant production16:30 - What type of propellant is Starpath making?20:15 - What is Starpath building?24:56 - Why build this power system yourself and why not nuclear?28:56 - Plant & Rover35:35 - Plan for success39:59 - Speculation on SpaceX's propellant production43:49 - Who else is a potential customer?45:49 - Revenue model48:27 - Investors and common misconceptions50:26 - Capital needs51:43 - Competitors? China?54:37 - First fuel production prediction56:03 - 10-year vision58:16 - Other businesses Saurav is excited about1:00:17 - Which celebrity will play Saurav? • Show notes •Starpath’s website — https://starpath.space/Starpath’s socials — https://twitter.com/StarpathSpaceSarah’s socials — https://twitter.com/SauravShroff5Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we sit down with Lindsay Kaldon, NASA’s Fission Surface Power Project Manager, to explore NASA's plans for deploying small nuclear reactors on the Moon and Mars as part of the Artemis missions. Before her current role at NASA, Lindsay spent over a decade in the DoD, where she worked as an Air Force officer specializing in electronic warfare, keeping pilots safe at extreme altitudes. With a background in both electrical and nuclear engineering, Lindsay’s experience spans high-altitude spy planes, drones, and EMP defenses for Navy ships, giving her a unique perspective on technology in extreme environments.In this episode, Lindsay walks us through NASA's efforts to deploy small nuclear reactors on the Moon as part of the Artemis missions and beyond. She also explains how her defense background prepared her for managing the technical and regulatory complexities of space nuclear power.In addition, we cover:The history of nuclear systems in space, from SNAP-10 to today's advancementsNASA's collaboration with industry partnersThe role of nuclear power in supporting long-term lunar and Martian missionsThe technical challenges of fission in spaceThe potential future of nuclear propulsion and energy solutions for space explorationAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:28 - Lindsey's role at NASA01:07 - Power reactors in space and when the project started08:05 - Highly enriched uranium10:21 - Importance of NASA's long-term nuclear goals13:53 - RPS vs FSP16:44 - Lindsey's background24:14 - Why not work in a nuclear sub?29:54 - How does the team evolve in the next 5 years?35:26 - Why should a company bid for phase 1 of NASA's plan to return to the Moon?38:01 - Overall architecture of NASA's FSP needs40:43 - Supply chain problems44:12 - Technical challenges of nuclear in space50:16 - Who regulates space nuclear?52:11 - DOD & NASA57:33 - Milestones to look out for01:00:21 - The state of nuclear on Earth • Show notes •NASA FSP website — https://www.nasa.gov/tdm/fission-surface-power/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

In this episode, Matt Gialich, co-founder and CEO of AstroForge, dives into the exciting world of asteroid mining, focusing on extracting platinum group metals. He discusses the challenges and innovations in refining metals in space and the company's recent $40 million Series A funding for upcoming missions. Gialich highlights the complexities of selecting asteroids, balancing risk with innovation, and the evolving regulatory landscape. Plus, he shares insights into the $60 billion market for precious metals and his journey from the scooter industry to deep space exploration.

This week’s Pathfinder pod features Brian D’Erario, the man who keeps the lights on at Payload as the Director of Client Partnerships. Brian’s role is to bring in all the revenue that makes everything at Payload possible (no pressure, Brian!).  With experience working with over 97 partners, Brian has been instrumental in shaping Payload's approach to brand awareness and lead generation.Brian shares his journey from selling B2B hardware and software to government contractors, to his time at Morning Brew, and finally joining Payload to drive partnerships in the space sector. We explore Brian's background, including his work with various industries and his insights into the unique challenges of marketing within the space industry. We also discuss:The marketing strategies that space companies often overlookThe importance of brand awareness even during the R&D phaseHow startups can compete with the primesThe role of content in engaging B2B audiencesEffective conference strategies for maximizing impactAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:04 - What does Brian do at Payload?01:51 - Brian's background04:33 - Morning Brew08:09 - Initial assessment of space marketing strategies10:39 - Do space companies market themselves well?12:27 - Marketing your product before you start selling19:46 - Brand awareness vs lead generation27:40 - When does it make sense for a startup to spend money on marketing?31:44 - How can a startup develop a marketing plan for a product that competes against a prime competitor?34:46 - Creating engaging B2B content41:31 - Agency vs in-house43:39 - Conference strategies47:44 - The Marketing Playbook52:53 - Brian’s publication55:11 - Partnerships consultant57:15 - From hockey to pickleball • Show notes •Brian’s Marketing Newsletter — https://payloadspace.com/marketing-deep-tech-newsletter/Brian’s socials — https://twitter.com/derariobMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week’s Pathfinder pod features Tony Frazier, LeoLab’s newly appointed CEO, to discuss the critical role the company plays in building a living map of orbital activity for space operations. With over $120M of private capital raised, LeoLabs has continued to expand its global network of ground-based radars, currently cataloging over 22,000 objects in LEO. Tony shares his journey from a 13-year career at Maxar to joining LeoLabs, driven by his belief in the company's mission to enhance space safety and security.We explore Tony's background, including his experience managing billion-dollar P&L operations at Maxar and his involvement with Iridium, which shaped his understanding of the risks posed by debris. We also discuss:The founding story of LeoLabsThe unique advantages of ground-based radar network compared to other tracking methodsThe exponential growth in orbital objectsScaling a radar system to meet the demands of a rapidly proliferating LEO environmentThe future of space traffic management and the impact of regulationAnd much, much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:33 - What is LeoLabs?01:34 - Where is LeoLabs based and how long have they been around?02:42 - How did Tony end up at Leo Labs?04:26 - The mission08:04 - Why LeoLabs hired Tony?09:55 - How important is debris and traffic management?13:52 - The Kessler Syndrome15:48 - LeoLabs' architecture23:08 - Competitor differentiation25:29 - Advantages of a space-based architecture28:14 - Scaling30:09 - 3rd-party data integration32:12 - Current demand for situational awareness and future predictions35:06 - Market catalysts39:38 - How LeoLabs makes money41:41 - Data tracking for the lowest tier subscription44:26 - Government vs commercial bookings44:59 - What makes LeoLabs attractive to investors?48:16 - Is the goal to become a public company?49:26 - Killer asteroids50:07 - Favorite space-related media • Show notes •LeoLab’s website — https://leolabs.space/LeoLab’s socials — https://twitter.com/LeoLabs_SpaceMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

In this discussion, Andy Lapsa, co-founder and CEO of Stoke Space, shares insights from his extensive aerospace career, including a decade at Blue Origin. He dives into Stoke's innovative approach to creating fully reusable launch vehicles, focusing on second-stage reusability that sets them apart from competitors. Andy highlights the importance of operational efficiency and the role of their proprietary software, Fusion, in optimizing processes. He also discusses the evolving launch market and the necessity for diverse providers to ensure industry growth.

This week's Pathfinder features Colin Doughan, CEO of Gravitics, a Seattle-based startup that specializes in the development of modular space infrastructure to support the expansion of stations and orbital platforms. Their primary product is the StarMax module, which can be customized in various sizes to accommodate different launch vehicles and mission requirements.Colin shares his journey into the aerospace industry and his vision for building real estate platforms in space. With a background that includes nearly 20 years at Lockheed Martin and founding Altius Space Machines (acquired by Voyager), Colin brings a considerable amount of experience in infrastructure development.We explore:The approach Gravitics takes in developing scalable station modulesThe market potential for free-flying stations and the impact of new launch vehicle capabilitiesOperator vs builder model in space stationsChallenges in scaling manufacturing and testing for space environmentsThe future of artificial gravity and its importance for long-term space habitationAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro & Epsilon ad02:04 - Colin's background03:23 - Colin's first business venture04:02 - Why start a space station business?05:25 - Evolution of the Gravitics's vision06:57 - Zero G modules07:36 - Business model08:26 - Why not operate modules?10:04 - How do you perceive the market opportunity for free-flying space stations?18:19 - Design decisions22:25 - Turning a competitor into a customer25:02 - Gravitics's approach vs existing providers26:14 - Is there enough capital and investors to sustain this market?30:26 - Countries creating their own launch capabilities33:24 - StarMax35:44 - Insourcing vs outsourcing36:52 - Scaling manufacturing40:05 - Testing42:50 - Technical challengers that keep Colin up at night44:42 - Commercial and government traction48:34 - Long-term view50:09 - ETA for Elysium?50:35 - Who's going to play Colin in the future movie about Gravitics? • Show notes •Gravitic’s website — https://www.gravitics.com/Gravitic’s socials — https://twitter.com/graviticsincColin’s socials — https://twitter.com/colindoughanMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week's Pathfinder guest is Tina Ghataore, Chief Strategy and Revenue Officer at Aerospacelab as well as CEO of Aerospacelab N.A. With a background in aerospace engineering and extensive experience in business development and strategy, Tina has been instrumental in taking products and services to market in both large and small companies.Aerospacelab is a Belgium-based company specializing in satellite platforms and components. Our conversation with Tina covers the fascinating world of satellite technology and Aerospacelab's role in it. We exploreThe vision of founder, Benoît Deper, and the company's growth over the past six yearsApproach to building and launching satellitesThe significance of vertical integrationChallenges and opportunities in the commercial and government satellite marketsThe role of Aerospacelab North America in expanding capabilitiesAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:04 - About Tina and her path to Aerospacelab04:44 - Why Aerospacelab?06:24 - Aerospacelab's history and Tina's division09:38 - Why does Aerospacelab need a division focused on North American clients?12:20 - Market opportunity and distinguishing from their competitors17:29 - Gauging SpaceX's long-term bus desires19:44 - Current and future product roadmap23:53 - How is Aerospacelab currently building satellites27:43 - Aerospacelab's max satellite capacity31:49 - Customer base36:41 - How is Aerospacelab funded?39:15 - 10 year vision42:06 - Space in the Middle East50:32 - Startups that Tina is excited about53:54 - What does Tina do for fun? • Show notes •Aerospacelab’s website — https://www.aerospacelab.com/Aerospacelab’s socials — https://twitter.com/aerospacelab_Tina’s socials — https://twitter.com/Tina_GhataoreMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we feature Kate Kelly, Director of Space and Emerging Programs at BWXT, an 8,000-person firm that specializes in delivering nuclear reactors and components for the Navy, commercial nuclear industry, and advanced technologies. Kate shares her journey into the nuclear and space industry, providing insights into the advancements and challenges faced by BWXT. With a background in chemical engineering, Kate has been with BWXT for over a decade, contributing to significant projects like small modular reactors and space nuclear propulsion systems.Our conversation with Kate covers the world of space nuclear technology and BWXT's role in it. We also discuss:Kate's unconventional path into the nuclear industry and BWXTThe significance of the DARPA Draco Phase 2 Award and its impact on space nuclear propulsionThe role of nuclear thermal propulsion in future explorationChallenges and milestones in developing nuclear technology for spaceRegulatory processes and safety considerations for nuclear systemsAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:25 - How Kate ended up at BWXT and pursuing nuclear03:47 - Quick rundown on BWXT04:34 - What has made Kate stay at BWXT for her whole career?06:50 - Director of space and emerging programs08:02 - For All Mankind and how nuclear propulsion works11:29 - First spacecraft to use nuclear propulsion12:51 - Milestones14:33 - What does nuclear propulsion solve?16:25 - What kind of work is BWXT doing on the power side when it comes to space?19:46 - Possible scenarios for nuclear power solutions on Earth21:38 - Long-term value behind BWXT's tech23:19 - The size of Kate's division24:45 - How does regulation work for nuclear technologies in space?27:40 - State of nuclear today and how long until it becomes commercialized30:38 - BWXT post successful demonstration prediction32:03 - Safety and combatting public perception on nuclear34:54 - How BWXT tests their propulsion systems37:24 - Competitors38:57 - How does BWXT compete against faster and more agile startups?41:34 - Nuclear for space in 10 years43:16 - What Kate does with her free time • Show notes •BWXT’s website — https://www.bwxt.com/what-we-do/advanced-technologies/BWXT’s socials — https://twitter.com/BWXTMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/